Anyone who thinks it’s “cringe” to be over a certain age and still be deeply enthusiastic about the things you love probably needs to get a hobby. I’d rather be able to find pleasure and happiness in something that seems “weird” than be miserable because some arbitrary period in my life to enjoy things has passed.
It's a deeply childish thing, those people that say that I would hope will grow out of it (I know some don't ever) But yeah - anyone calling people like James and Chelsea cringe, don't know how to live life correctly!
for real! They need to fuck off and go be miserable somewhere else. And anyone using cringe in that context you immediately ignore anyway Finding joy in the little things and passion into hobbies is what makes life worth living
Same along with the whole freakout sue had begging for a better version of her to come after using the substance, god the scene of Elizabeth getting angry at herself in the mirror and her whole meltdown hearing sue's interview, god this movie spoke to my self hatred (i also just saw it so im feeling pretty wired and strange from it)
To me honestly the most heart breaking scene is when she’s about to go on a date with the guy from her school class and she keeps running back to change her look even though you’d like to grab her through the screen to tell her she’s already beautiful. Really shows how beauty is entirely subjective and you can’t help the outer influences of people reducing you to your younger version or beauty standards
I had a small audience, but had the best rando moment: when the voice on the phone asked Elisabeth "do you want to stop?" someone in my theater answered in a distressed "YES" I had to fight back a laugh. Man was NOT having a good time lol
@@gleesinnpiano2653 There were funny scenes but they were laughing during the body horror stuff. Also they were the only other people in the theater and chose to sit next to me.
one thing my roommate and I were discussing is how elisabeth was constantly able to disappear without anyone noticing or checking in on her. as soon as she discarded by the network she’s seemingly discarded by everyone. sue is surrounded by people everybody loves her but elisabeth has no support system. the closest she gets is fred who she abandons because she feels she doesn’t deserve to be loved as herself.
I think that's commentary on how some people in Hollywood, or just famous people in general, don't really have friends. They have associates. And the moment that they can't give those associates what they have in the past whether it be money or access to events due to that fame, then they're worthless to them. The only person that seemed to have genuine affection for her was Fred, who was probably someone that she didn't even acknowledge when they were in school together.
At 1:14:01, when you guys talk about Sue being so careless with Elisabeth's body, what really struck me was that, at first, Sue puts a towel under Elisabeth's head, she shows care at first, to then be so rude and treat her like an animal, very cow-esque where she milks her later in the film.
And what's even more sad is that Elizabeth is doing all of those things to herself, she sees herself as something that is meant to be exploid, because remember they are one.
@@natdiazj She seems to suffer of bipolar disorder. Because the other subject 207, the pretty young man/ old man showed mental stability and full awareness.
The Substance may genuinely be one of the most relatable movie I've seen, as crazy as it may sound. So many scenes had me thinking, "oh, I feel that. I've felt that." After my friend and I saw it, I texted him, "Womanhood is a man telling you to smile right after you've actively pulled out three of your teeth in a bathroom."
I feel like “womanhood is a man telling you to smile right after you’ve actively pulled out three of your teeth in a bathroom” pretty much sums it up. When Harvey says “pretty girls should always smile” that irked me as well.
I watched this as the only women/afab in the room and there were a good amount of scenes I had to hold my breath and almost disassociate because it was so awfully real as a woman to watch
There's soooo much to talk about with this film, but if you haven't read the interview with the prosthetics and makeup teams you really should! Ever since I got into filmmaking I've starting sitting through the credits just to see all the work that goes into films and I'm soooo glad I did for this one because there was literally a credit for "Sue's Breasts"! And the prosthetic/makeup artists really helped make the film what it was because having the gradual hag progression was their idea (Fargeat originally wanted the transformation to be more sudden). They gave the stages nicknames: “Requiem,” “The Finger,” “Gollum,” “Monstro,” and “Gremlin.” Really goes to show how much a movie is a result of the magic and collaboration of EVERYONE on set. Anyways the gist is that it was The Thing levels of practical effects, with Demi and Margaret sitting through 8+ hours of prosthetics each. There was a stunt double for wide shots of Monstro ElisaSue, but the close ups were all Margaret. The kicker is there was only one costume so they had to share the suit after sweating in it! They literally had to rip it apart and dry it out so it'd be ready for the next day. Also it's really funny that you called the finale a "fire hose" of blood because they used an ACTUAL FIRE HOSE. www.marieclaire.com/culture/movies/the-substance-makeup-effects-artist-interivew/ www.gq.com/story/the-substance-effects
I loved how you could feel the absolute hate that Elizabeth and Sue had for each other just by the way they looked at each others limp bodies. I felt like the fight between them was indicative of that, where Elizabeth lost the fight because she didn’t truly hate Sue as much as Sue definitely hated Elizabeth. Elizabeth even had second reservations about killing off Sue while Sue has no hesitation killing Elizabeth.
Aww Chelsea, thank you for being so real in this podcast. Listening to you describe the struggle of how you see yourself and all the external pressures that can just poison your thoughts about your own body was incredibly relatable. I'm just a stranger, commenting on one of my favorite youtube channels, that wants to share my solidarity. ❤
i sometimes forget that people feel the same as me and her talking about this really moved me and was so real to hear. i recently deleted everything but pinterest and youtube (obviously lol). i sometimes feel lonely but i also realize how much better i feel about myself and how i can bounce back from when i do get bad body dysmorphia. shoutout chelsea!!!
Same! I had never even heard of it but it was the day of release. Buddy called me at 8, we went at 9:30. No trailer, no warnings. I was also not ready 😅
As someone with chronic illness that has nearly killed me already, I feel very fortunate to have made it to my early 30s. How fortunate I will be if I see my 40s! The perspective sickness gives to aging is another read I had of this film: the desperation to last for even another moment, no matter how "gross" you may be, simply because you are still alive! Insecurities are eclipsed by existential fear, and also by deep gratitude. It's when the fight for survival begins. I cannot possibly overstate how much I adore this film--viewed through any lens.
@@sarahmemmott6282 I’m disabled, and I had the same thought. You can read Elisabeth being left in the bathroom by Sue as disability neglect, and the cooking scene is her taking back her independence, but the disability is still there
I'm with you. Im in the same boat and doctors told my parents as a toddler i would be lucky to make it pass 18. I'm 26 now, ofc it's terribly worse and I have to get blood exchanges every month but I'm still here. It really opened my eyes.
loved at the end when she was like "fuck it, im all i have" and actually left her house. also felt seen in general because im disabled i also do that thing where i have a slightly better day so i push it and completely burn myself out for a week because respecting the balance requires too much patience
I almost died a year ago, from an abscess in my lung. It was rough, but made me realize how difficult it’s going to be to make it to 40. Let’s do this dude!
1:22:45 A cool thing to note is that it’s literal. We do things in our youth (smoke, drink, eat like shit) that definitely affect us later, because the trade off seems more abstract.
As an art teacher, I immediately clocked that shade of blue as the complement of the yellow of the substance ads/packaging. I always love when Chelsea talks about colors!
The split on Letterboxd were women talk about how this movie was a shot through the heart vs the men trying to claim the story was "actually pretty sexist if you think about it" is INSANE
as a man i found this movie incredibly relatable. You'd have to have 60 iq to think this was only made for women. This is a human experience that relates thematically to escapism and addiction just as much as beauty standards. which btw there are standards for men too
i haven't seen many people talking about how ironic it is that lizzie crashes her car seeing her face getting ripped apart on a dental ad and that the first thing that starts falling at the end of the movie is sue's teeth really makes the whole message about missing what you had before in your life stronger
I'm so glad you brought up how people have started equating morality with looks. I find it disturbing how everyone's seemingly going "Yay, now we have an excuse to mock the way they look" while no one bats an eye.
To be fair that's been a concept in culture since there has been culture, so many times in old fairy tales and myths, appearance has been a short hand of showing the reader who are the moral and immoral characters
@@alansharpe5523 Exactly. Just for one example, being overweight always seems to be shorthand for a character being lazy, foolish, or selfish. It not only is a reflection of how people perceive real people who look a certain way but it reinforces that existing perception.
@@pusheenqueen519 Completely agree. As a person with a chronic skin condition, it is really tiring seeing bad skin so often equated with being monstorous/creepy/a sign of disease. Horror movies especially love doing it, just think of any scene where a character being itchy/getting a rash is the first sign of something terrible coming...
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I had adolescent scoliosis and had my spine fused at 14. That really allowed me to bow out of the whole "Look good for men" thing, because it was like "I'm a hunchback and ruined already, no man will want me." I'm kind of grateful for it, because even though it wasn't the greatest attitude to have, it set me free from the anxiety of having to look good. And seeing other women suffer for their looks, I didn't want to join in.
Yeah, i totally get it. I grew up listening to my mom say the vilest sh*t about me for being the “ugliest” in a family full of blonde thin straight haired women… i gave up on tying my value to my looks very soon, and i see know I am not as afraid of aging as people around me, including those very beautiful women of my family. It’s f*cking sad.
yep, I loved this movie but part of me couldn't all the way relate - there was never really a point where I fit the "beauty standard." So this woman having this experience for the first time at 50 is like ... old news
I am black and was adopted by white people who only knew white people, and at church activities when I was a kid all the girls I grew up around were white so that made me feel a bit of freedom with my appearance because it’s like I’m already the odd one out I already look weird here. Also my family was racist so that added to feelings of I’m undesirable already why shouldn’t I shave my eyebrows and have a dyed mullet (both of which I’ve had for years because I like it) but it was just like there was no way for me to ever look normal or fit in with the spaces I was in. I wanted long hair and pale skin so much but I have long learned to love myself and accept my hair just doesn’t grow like that
I had the same exact experience! Having to wear a back brace in middle school really freed me from the pressure of pleasing the male gaze. I was already “undesirable” bc I was damaged but that set me free
My Nana went to see this with me and my best friend, and she said this was her favorite horror movie of the year! Watching this with her because you are her favorite UA-camrs! EDIT: You guys are not cringe, the people who stopped watching you in 2019 and don't like how you live by your motto, "Be good people!" are cringe!
At 1:46:37 when Elisabeth stops from terminating Sue, I did notice that she plugged the IV switcher directly into Sue’s chest/heart instead of her forearm like they had done all other times in the movie - not sure if it’s relevant but I thought that might have been the catalyst for Sue waking up while Elisabeth was active? A literal kickstart to the heart so to speak.
As a woman who is 41 and, while generally comfortable and happy with herself, finds herself taking longer and longer and longer looks in the mirror and notices more things I wish were not there, I was legitimately heartbroken by the "getting ready" scene, and wholly moved by Demi Moore's performance. It was vulnerable, sad, frustrated, enraged, desperate, over-the-top in all the best ways, and at every second spoke to me in some way. I want to tell people that "Demi deserves a fucking Oscar for this role" but really the performance is too good for the Oscars (especially since we know how the Oscars treat horror). The sound design got me so hard. I'm glad that my husband and I experienced in theaters. The best part was at the end when SHE was putting in earrings and curling her hair, our audience had to laugh and it was this amazing catharsis after the insanity up until that point. Been SO excited to hear what y'all (and my girl Chelsea in particular; ❤ you and your perspective) have to say about legit one of my now favorite movies ever.
We’ve had some weird horror adjacent movies in the Oscars lately, so there’s hope. The Oscars voters are a bit of a lost cause, however. Super biased and ignorant
I’m a guy and even I felt bad for her. She wanted to just go on a nice date but couldn’t feel good about herself with that reminder of what she used to look like.
I love how dense this movie is, even for a movie with very clear message. A 2 hour podcast and I don’t even think you guys mentioned “the picture of Dorian gray” which I feel plays a big part in the messaging as well. Love love love it.
Just got back from the film, I couldn't stop thinking about the picture of dorian grey! this film is stacked, maybe even too much, but i think that's better than not enough.
we love a classic chelsea rebecca color analysis!!! pink is not only just a feminine color but is specific for little girls. growing up i went through a phase of “i’m too old to wear pink” which goes right a long with how youthful sue is. i thought the sticky note the guy left could be interpreted as talking about sue. elisabeth will “take care of her” until he gets back. this movie is so interesting and fun to pick through and do different readings of. i hate the rhetoric that this movie isn’t subtle, bc the very straight foward reading is in your face, but there’s so many more interpretations that are subtext! i don’t know i just love this movie and it’s talking about more than what’s on the surface
I ended up not liking this movie, but everytime I wrote a review it ended up more positive then negative because there’s so much I can objectively appreciate (even if it just doesn’t come together for me). I think a movie is really special when I can personally not like it, and still be completely happy that it’s topping so many lists. I’m just so happy movies like this are getting made!
I thought it was good, but overrated. Especially with people coming out of film festivals saying it's the most insane movie ever. I was thinking we were going to get another Dead-Alive or The Thing type of movie where body parts were gonna fly everywhere, but it wasn't like that. The practical effects, production design and directing were fantastic, but I felt the script was lacking in some areas.
Yeah this is a movie I hardcore appreciate because there's a lot of effort put in on all fronts and I don't have anything specific to say that I didn't like other than, I just didn't really vibe with it. I'm surprised at how overwhelmingly positive the reviews have been though which makes me think there's something wrong with my brain for being kind of meh about it.
@@SpookyQuillI don’t think there’s anything wrong with you. You can appreciate how well made something can be, yet still not enjoy it. That’s totally fine and there’s nothing wrong with you for it.
I feel the same way. I'm glad that it was made because it was something new & not another sequel or prequel or remake of of another movie. I also appreciate the practical effects & Demi was fantastic. But for me it's was just an okay movie that I wouldn't watch again. It was boring at times & should've been shorter imo.
Chelsea is one of my comparisons, hearing her talk about comparison to other women was so healing. No matter what you look like, there's always someone out there DESPERATE for something you have. We all want what we don't have, and it'll never be enough. Comparison truly is the theif of joy.
Not a spoiler: This movie is an all-time classic. I'm so glad you're covering this on podcast! SPOILER: This movie is way funnier than I thought it would be. I love how Elisabeth's reaction to Sue's abuse of The Substance changes over time. At first she's horrified-- oh no, a gnarled finger! Then appalled-- gray hair and wrinkles, no! and then-- oh, wtf now what fresh fcukin hell is this... it's a very funny metaphor for the process of aging in general. Omg, this gorgeous wonderful gem of a movie.
Almost all of what I remembered about Demi prior to seeing this film was tied to her looks and marriage to a younger man. I jokingly said after seeing this movie, “the scariest part was pretending that Demi Moore isn’t still hot.” She was so perfectly cast for this role.
SPOILER: I did not realize they shared a consciousness and I feel like a total dunce. I kept thinking, “What is Elizabeth getting out to of this? She is having the life sucked out of her while her adult clone daughter is wildin’ out at her former workplace.” It reminds me of when I was in middle school and saw The Village. At the end of the movie, my friend exclaimed, “Wait, she was blind!? I thought she was just acting weird.”
I loved the Frankenstein ending of this movie, with the guy saying she created her (basically saying how society pushed Elizabeth to become this monster) and Elizasue trying to get love from everyone who thinks she's a monster
this film is gonna be a strong contender for the Dead Meat Horror Awards for 2025, as I have a feeling that this film could potentially sweep the award show's awards
I knew that this episode was gonna be a long one because this movie has just so much going on. I love it so much. ETA: I feel like the casting of Demi Moore (from her history to how incredibly beautiful she is) was incredibly deliberate to the point where I almost feel like it might not have worked as well if someone else played Elisabeth.
Agree on the casting of Demi Moore. She basically invented (with Annie Liebowitz, of course) the naked pregnant belly magazine cover and has always had an insane amount of scrutiny (some of it invited) around her body. All that baggage feels essential to the character.
My friend, who isn’t a horror fan but went to see this with me because I’m going through a breakup and they’re being supportive, saw this with me without googling anything. By the time Elisasue was on screen I was laughing out of sheer “oh fuck I shouldn’t have brought you to see this” and they were staring at me with the knowledge that I now owe them SO MANY favors
That along with Graessle’s comments makes me hope that maybe, just maybe I could get my mom to watch it because I think that she’d really love what it has to say.
@@iheartbusterk82 I watched it with my mom and she loved it! To be fair she's not really that old, she's only 46 AND she's pretty open to modern sensitivities and could interpret the movie in a non literal way, so I guess she just had the right combination of factors lol
This movie will resonate differently at different times in one's life. I'm 52 and think it's pretty funny. I hope I get to live into my 80s & lmao at The Substance.
I saw Annabelle and a very old woman was the only person in the theater and she loved it. Also I saw terrifier 3 next to an elderly couple and they were cracking up.
dragged my mom and dad to watch it with me and they LOVED IT my mom hates horror and being scared but said that this movie made her think and reflect about herself (being 51 and all) so much that she didn’t mind the gore at all both of them grew up with demi moore and say that this was poetic justice for everything that hollywood put her through and gave her kudos for committing so much 10/10 experience
This movie is my absolute favorite that I've seen in years. The tag line "it will change your life" is so accurate as a viewer. Everyone I've known that's seen it hasn't been able to stop thinking about it. All I've done is talk about it since.
I think something fascinating this movie does that not enough people talk about is how, if given a second body to inhabit, someone that hates themselves as much as Elisabeth does would absolutely start ruining their hated selve's life even though she is one and the same person.
Walked out of this movie absolutely stunned and this podcast only made me love it more. Loved especially the lens of "beating up your own body" and felt it in a different way, sometimes getting frustrated over just... mental health and dysfunction. One of my favorite little beats you didn't mention - when Elisabeth is doing all her "witch cooking" and she's beating together just a TON of eggs. Had to be a conscious choice after what Dennis Quaid said to her about what you lose at 50!
right at the end she is only free when she completely detaches herself-*literally* frees herself-from her body. there is nothing left to judge, to be seen, to compare, to be not good enough anymore. she is finally free. this will never not make me emotional.
I gotta say, I was so excited for this podcast! I loved this movie! As a transman, I get the unique experience of seeing both the 'sides' of aging and beauty standards. I've gotta say, this film is excellent about the horror and pressure of aging as a woman vs the acceptance of an older man. When I was more feminine, read as a woman in society, the massive amount of pressure to preserve my youth and "stay beautiful" was honestly kinda horrifying. I was being told that my beauty was something to hold onto because it will fade. Double horrifying because I was 10! Young girls are being told they're only valuable when they're pretty and eventually that value will disappear. Young boys are not being told that their value will degrade, in fact they are celebrated to age and "become men." They aren't tied 100% to their looks, unlike girls. However there is the universal "if you're fat, you will never be pretty" which is a whole nother issue tied to "good looks." It's just sexism in society. But, to get into a trans view, I wept for Elizabeth Sparkle. Having who you are just thrown out is awful, especially since it can not be helped. It's not a choice to be trans and it's not a choice to age. It's just awful for you to be yourself and to have society just reject you outright. However the balance between Sue and Elizabeth feels accurate to the perception of being looked at as a transman. It feels like a beautifully violent depiction of the inner self still deserving worth despite how awful it feels to exist. The societal pressure is so fucking real.
This movie really resonated with me. I am by no means old, only 26, but the emphasis on appearances (especially women’s) has played a huge part in my life. For years I’ve missed opportunities, been overlooked, and had people validate treating me poorly all because they didn’t find me attractive. It’s a nightmare being young and not having the conventional beauty to “enjoy” it. I’ve felt uninvited to many occasions because I wasn’t on anyone’s radar and have had men literally push past me to talk to my more attractive friends. The thing is, I’m not even “ugly” I just didn’t put emphasis on my looks and play into gendered expectations. But once I got older and started naturally finding interest in fashion and makeup, the treatment changed. It’s taught me that beauty is a form of currency and will elevate or lower your quality of life.
As a stay at home mom, I can wholeheartedly say, I hope that my kids have more then what I ever could possibly dream of having. It is my job and joy to put great people out into this world. 💚
Favorite movie of the year so far! Loved your guys' commentary on it, especially Chelsea. Obviously men can still relate to this movie, but this is certainly a movie with a woman's voice. I'm 27 and I'm already feeling the pressures that Chelsea and this movie talked about. I loved how Chelsea described it as angry but also joyful. It's fucked up subject matter but the movie felt like fun the whole time while still having so much empathy and heart and not feeling totally doom and gloom. Really, really special film.
I really fucking loved this movie! Also I find it so funny that not only does Sue get a job and immense fame without ever giving a last name… but she also doesn’t have a social security number 🤣🤣🤣 also the substance trimmed her bush 😂
Seeing this in the theater was such a profound experience. I went with friends, one of whom was upset with me personally for traumatizing him. As we walked out, a woman said, "You guys are lucky that you have each other. I came by myself".
Thank you for mentioning Dennis Quaid not washing his hands in the restroom. That made me barf more than the other scenes. Not to mention he went and ate wet shrimp right after, then goes to shake someone’s hands. Really clarifies that his hands are dirty in what happened with Elisabeth. Then with the ending scene it’s just made clear that they all got blood on their hands(and faces) coz they all played a part in what happened to her. Also the ending star scene where it’s a pool of blood really ties back to the ketchup spilled on her star at the beginning. Love this film!
The interesting thing about the jellyfish imagery; is there is a specific jellyfish that is effectively immortal because it just reverts back to its polyp stage at the end of its life cycle.
I went to see this with two friends and our theater was packed. I had heard the hype and had a vague idea of the plot, but nothing could have prepared me. We were all blown away! One of the best theater experiences I've had in at least a decade. Everyone was screaming, and laughing, and gasping. Then there were long moments of fascinated silence. It was perfect. I loved it.
Watched this last week in theaters and I've been waiting ever since for it to be on the podcast. What a time for horror fans. The true horror of this film was definitely the food.
I also think a great angle to analyze this film from is literal substance abuse. Using the substance is never enough, what the substance does for you is never enough. Which can also be applied to the obsession women can have with trying to live up to what they deem the beauty standard to be-the makeup, skincare, fillers, and plastic surgery also ends up never being enough.
This movie is shot beautifully. Loved the Dennis Quaid scenes of him essentially manspreading in every frame and having zero self awareness because, as a middle age successful white man, he didn’t need to. Juxtaposed with Demi Moores character who is all consumed by her appearance because that’s all the world has valued her for in her life. It’s great.
Also its subtle but the scene where Elizabeth is blending the eggs with a hand blender, you hear the sound of a chain saw as the eggs splash on her face kind of a nod to Texas chainsaw I feel like which is hilarious cause its a blender and eggs. Also there was a glorious scene with both elizabeths body and sues body laying next to each other on the bathroom floor, then it transitions to two eggs on a frying pan, I didn't notice this til my third time watching.
When they talk about how mean we are to our bodies, it hit me so hard. Probably TMI, but I just came back from an out-of-state wake and it's so true. A college friend had passed away at 38 after drinking his liver into oblivion. Juxtaposed with that, I was staying with my Aunt and Uncle and my 72 year old uncle is suffering the consequences of life long smoking. I try to take care of myself and workout but wonder if I am doing enough? Am I doing too much and am accidentally hurting myself? I truly hope I am hitting that happy middle ground for a long and healthy life.
Loved this movie so much I saw it 3 times in theaters because I wanted to show my friends and family. I even made a prop of the "activator" bottle and syringe full of that neon green liquid, im dare I say obsessed. Its a great horror film which was surprisingly funny! Great cinematography, tons of nods to other horror films heavily on the shinning. Absolutely love it, glad I got to show my friends and fam in theaters.
Chelsea, there are some hand sanitizer lotions you should try for conventions!! My hands get so dry in the winter and having the lotion really helps, especially if you’re applying it a lot!
The bathroom discussion reminded me of the "Sexy Getting Ready Song," from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, which was another purposefully unglamorous look at the cost of beauty standards
For me this movie is Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde for baddies. A mix of Death Becomes Her + Society + Videodrome. Also the final minutes are low-key a homage to King Kong and maybe Braindead lol. Coralie Fargeat is a genius and she KNOWS what she wants! She created a modern classic.
During the monster sue mirror scene there was one girl in the theatre who could not stop hysterically laughing and one guy across the theatre screamed “shut the fuck up” 😂
I'm turning 30 in less than a month and take satisfaction in knowing there's men out there that are offended I don’t feel anxious, dreading, or less beautiful at the prospect of being out of my 20s. Seriously, there's so many men and even other women who seem to take it as a personal insult when women over 30 don’t hate themselves and are just living their best lives.
I've watched this movie with my wife last Friday, and we both agreed it's absolutely fantastic and a spectacle of a movie that HAS to be seen in cinemas to fully have it's chance of grasping you. The way nudity is used, and it makes your gaze forced unto seeing aesthetically pleasing things - which then makes you feel creeped out for watching - is SO effective.
Oh man, you guys have fully convinced me to see this movie. I was hearing a lot of stuff about the body horror and wasn't sure, but this seems like an instant fav for me. Even if they do sometimes whack you over the head with it, if a movie has something it really wants to say with its whole heart, I always appreciate it. Especially with an issue so universal and yet so specific as this. Thanks for the thoughtful commentary as always.
Love the podcast, I don't listen to anything as diligently as I used to but y'all remain at the top of my podcast rotation. Chelsea's deep dive into the thematic significance of children in different countries' horror remains one of my favorite single podcasts I've ever listened to. FWIW I'm in my 40s and it's not bad at all. The way i stressed out about it, in retrospect, feels a lot like the stress I had around turning 30. In both cases, once it happened i realised there was no need to have got so stressed about it.
James & Chelsea have always made great podcast episodes, but this one reminds me of why I love to hear their own personal takes on recent or past horror films for so many years. I 1000% agree with Chelsea on how celebrity men are shown in media, especially superhero movies. Chris Hemsworth, Michael B Jordan, and Miles Teller don't look like that 24/7. And what's sad is that, they're already in good shape, so the work of them going through rigorous diets is uneeded. It's like putting a hat on a hat.
1:03:00 also because pink is a derivative of red, but also technically is just a shade of red; just like Elisabeth and Sue's relationality to one another.
aww I’m sorry people call you cringe! I just wanna say you guys are so cool! I’m in my 20s but I aspire to be like you Dead Meat. Child free and talking about horror movies with a little dog sounds amazing to me. Also 1:29:56 is so sad, you’ve always reminded me of Anne Hathaway Chelsea!
I just got back from seeing this at the cinema and omg a 2 hour podcast??? This is the best feeling. Can't wait to hear your thoughts as I was blown away by this film
the thing that always gets me with the type of subject matter a film like this delves into is just how universal those experiences can be, like obviously it happens to women, it happens to men too, and by extension it happens to trans and non-binary people, like we're just getting hit in the crossfire with this shit. as someone who does NOT identify as a woman in any way yet still presents as traditionally "feminine," so many beauty standards out there still end up affecting me because of how often i'm misgendered. and like yeah, it's a whole other can of worms to say "if i don't want people to think i'm a woman, then i should put more effort into passing as a man," but it'll always be a lose-lose situation because i'll never be Enough to be either side of that binary, which is stupid as hell when i'm not a part of it in the first damn place. plus, this isn't even getting into how race/ethnicity plays a part in this (coming from someone who's also mixed native american), like just as one example: i can't even do fun stuff with my hair without having to weigh my options of do i want to pass or do i want to honor my culture? but gods forbid you try to broach that subject in a movie without people calling it "woke garbage"......
Thank you for talking about the crazy societal standards when it comes to doing something amazing and noteworthy before 30. Like the rest of your life doesn't matter and you should give up after that age. Keep creating and don't give up. You may strike gold later than you anticipated and it'll still be gold! ❤
There are certain RULES that one must abide by in order to successfully survive The Substance. For instance, number one: you can never go longer than a week. Number two you have to feed the body unused. Number three: you must subscribe to Dead Meat.😂
This movie is absolutely a contender to sweep the Dead Meat Awards, and (while it never happens for horror movies), Demi Moore deserves an Oscar nom. I mean, so do most of the cast and crew, but this feels like Moore’s magnum opus, because it’s just so incredibly _different_ to anything that she’s done before, and that kind of bravery and risk deserves credit.
Best podcast yet guys. Cannot wait to see the movie. Chelsea, your honesty and self-reflection are so brave. I hope lots of young people are listening hard. What a role model!
I saw The Substance in the cinema with my 70 year old mum. She really responded to it, even though she'd never really seen any body horror before. What a film!
Love that you guys addressed the snow because I was like thats not realistic but you are right it set that fantasy hollywood whimsy that comes with the film
The Substance is probably my favorite horror film this year so far. And of course just an absolute love letter to Kubrick. Glad to see you guys covering it. 💜
Anyone who thinks it’s “cringe” to be over a certain age and still be deeply enthusiastic about the things you love probably needs to get a hobby. I’d rather be able to find pleasure and happiness in something that seems “weird” than be miserable because some arbitrary period in my life to enjoy things has passed.
Guarantee those people follow a sports team though 😂
I hope to be 80 speaking just as enthusiastically about art
It's a deeply childish thing, those people that say that I would hope will grow out of it (I know some don't ever)
But yeah - anyone calling people like James and Chelsea cringe, don't know how to live life correctly!
for real! They need to fuck off and go be miserable somewhere else.
And anyone using cringe in that context you immediately ignore anyway
Finding joy in the little things and passion into hobbies is what makes life worth living
The cringers will have the harder time with aging in general. They need to grow up & live a little more life.
“You’re the only lovable part of me.” is one of the most heart-breaking lines of the film, it struck my heart
Same along with the whole freakout sue had begging for a better version of her to come after using the substance, god the scene of Elizabeth getting angry at herself in the mirror and her whole meltdown hearing sue's interview, god this movie spoke to my self hatred (i also just saw it so im feeling pretty wired and strange from it)
To me honestly the most heart breaking scene is when she’s about to go on a date with the guy from her school class and she keeps running back to change her look even though you’d like to grab her through the screen to tell her she’s already beautiful. Really shows how beauty is entirely subjective and you can’t help the outer influences of people reducing you to your younger version or beauty standards
@@gggallin8279"reducing you to your younger version" is a perfect turn of phrase ❤
@@flaccidpancake2614 If you used to be peak beauty and you see recordings of yourself of 20-30 years ago you will feel some of that.
I had a small audience, but had the best rando moment: when the voice on the phone asked Elisabeth "do you want to stop?" someone in my theater answered in a distressed "YES"
I had to fight back a laugh. Man was NOT having a good time lol
I live for moments like that in the theater. 😁
Did he walk out of the movie?
@@marybellefleurI think there were actual psychopaths in my theater. This couple next to me laughed the whole time.
@@tuckercline5477 This movie was hilarious at some parts you gotta admit
@@gleesinnpiano2653 There were funny scenes but they were laughing during the body horror stuff. Also they were the only other people in the theater and chose to sit next to me.
one thing my roommate and I were discussing is how elisabeth was constantly able to disappear without anyone noticing or checking in on her. as soon as she discarded by the network she’s seemingly discarded by everyone. sue is surrounded by people everybody loves her but elisabeth has no support system. the closest she gets is fred who she abandons because she feels she doesn’t deserve to be loved as herself.
I think that's commentary on how some people in Hollywood, or just famous people in general, don't really have friends. They have associates. And the moment that they can't give those associates what they have in the past whether it be money or access to events due to that fame, then they're worthless to them. The only person that seemed to have genuine affection for her was Fred, who was probably someone that she didn't even acknowledge when they were in school together.
@@82Jaster Elisabeth probably didnt had a good personality either and wasnt really liked by close ones.
At 1:14:01, when you guys talk about Sue being so careless with Elisabeth's body, what really struck me was that, at first, Sue puts a towel under Elisabeth's head, she shows care at first, to then be so rude and treat her like an animal, very cow-esque where she milks her later in the film.
And what's even more sad is that Elizabeth is doing all of those things to herself, she sees herself as something that is meant to be exploid, because remember they are one.
@@natdiazj She seems to suffer of bipolar disorder. Because the other subject 207, the pretty young man/ old man showed mental stability and full awareness.
The Substance may genuinely be one of the most relatable movie I've seen, as crazy as it may sound. So many scenes had me thinking, "oh, I feel that. I've felt that."
After my friend and I saw it, I texted him, "Womanhood is a man telling you to smile right after you've actively pulled out three of your teeth in a bathroom."
I feel like “womanhood is a man telling you to smile right after you’ve actively pulled out three of your teeth in a bathroom” pretty much sums it up. When Harvey says “pretty girls should always smile” that irked me as well.
@@lovestumacher the movie is just reaffirmed after what happened in the last few days, and now it’s even scarier
I watched this as the only women/afab in the room and there were a good amount of scenes I had to hold my breath and almost disassociate because it was so awfully real as a woman to watch
There's soooo much to talk about with this film, but if you haven't read the interview with the prosthetics and makeup teams you really should! Ever since I got into filmmaking I've starting sitting through the credits just to see all the work that goes into films and I'm soooo glad I did for this one because there was literally a credit for "Sue's Breasts"!
And the prosthetic/makeup artists really helped make the film what it was because having the gradual hag progression was their idea (Fargeat originally wanted the transformation to be more sudden). They gave the stages nicknames: “Requiem,” “The Finger,” “Gollum,” “Monstro,” and “Gremlin.” Really goes to show how much a movie is a result of the magic and collaboration of EVERYONE on set.
Anyways the gist is that it was The Thing levels of practical effects, with Demi and Margaret sitting through 8+ hours of prosthetics each. There was a stunt double for wide shots of Monstro ElisaSue, but the close ups were all Margaret. The kicker is there was only one costume so they had to share the suit after sweating in it! They literally had to rip it apart and dry it out so it'd be ready for the next day.
Also it's really funny that you called the finale a "fire hose" of blood because they used an ACTUAL FIRE HOSE.
www.marieclaire.com/culture/movies/the-substance-makeup-effects-artist-interivew/
www.gq.com/story/the-substance-effects
thank you so much for sharing this!!
I loved how you could feel the absolute hate that Elizabeth and Sue had for each other just by the way they looked at each others limp bodies. I felt like the fight between them was indicative of that, where Elizabeth lost the fight because she didn’t truly hate Sue as much as Sue definitely hated Elizabeth. Elizabeth even had second reservations about killing off Sue while Sue has no hesitation killing Elizabeth.
No hesitation but clear regret I may add!
this is such a great point
Manifesting that the get to the kill bit for the kill count is james and Chelsea doing the exercise class to pump it up
and instead of the song saying "pump it up" it says "count it uuuuup!!"
Yyeess
So fun to think of!! Not sure it'll be on the Kill Count. Well, 2 deaths isn't unheard of, I suppose!
@@TheDimensionDwellerdo we count the 3rd version as well? 😂
@@TheDimensionDweller He did one for The Shining and two people died in that one too!
Aww Chelsea, thank you for being so real in this podcast. Listening to you describe the struggle of how you see yourself and all the external pressures that can just poison your thoughts about your own body was incredibly relatable. I'm just a stranger, commenting on one of my favorite youtube channels, that wants to share my solidarity. ❤
i sometimes forget that people feel the same as me and her talking about this really moved me and was so real to hear. i recently deleted everything but pinterest and youtube (obviously lol). i sometimes feel lonely but i also realize how much better i feel about myself and how i can bounce back from when i do get bad body dysmorphia. shoutout chelsea!!!
@@alainaatnip7811 Trust me you aren't missing anything on those other apps. Glad you're feeling refreshed getting rid of that albatross.
This movie completely slipped under my radar until my mate asks at 8pm if i want to go watch it at 9pm in the local cinema. I was not ready
Same, I had my film lecturer tell me to go see it.
Same! I had never even heard of it but it was the day of release. Buddy called me at 8, we went at 9:30. No trailer, no warnings. I was also not ready 😅
Same here I just saw it. Probably wasn’t going to go see but I had a mate go who recommended it, I am so glad I went 😂
Same, I went with my aunt who hates needles and gore - the trailer hid A LOT
@@oliversedgwick7236I couldn't imagine watching this movie with a family member
As someone with chronic illness that has nearly killed me already, I feel very fortunate to have made it to my early 30s. How fortunate I will be if I see my 40s!
The perspective sickness gives to aging is another read I had of this film: the desperation to last for even another moment, no matter how "gross" you may be, simply because you are still alive! Insecurities are eclipsed by existential fear, and also by deep gratitude. It's when the fight for survival begins.
I cannot possibly overstate how much I adore this film--viewed through any lens.
@@sarahmemmott6282 I’m disabled, and I had the same thought. You can read Elisabeth being left in the bathroom by Sue as disability neglect, and the cooking scene is her taking back her independence, but the disability is still there
I'm with you. Im in the same boat and doctors told my parents as a toddler i would be lucky to make it pass 18. I'm 26 now, ofc it's terribly worse and I have to get blood exchanges every month but I'm still here. It really opened my eyes.
loved at the end when she was like "fuck it, im all i have" and actually left her house.
also felt seen in general because im disabled i also do that thing where i have a slightly better day so i push it and completely burn myself out for a week because respecting the balance requires too much patience
I almost died a year ago, from an abscess in my lung. It was rough, but made me realize how difficult it’s going to be to make it to 40. Let’s do this dude!
Totally. Sue is there worried about how her butt looks on the monitor. And im thinking "YOURE GONNA DIE!!!"
1:22:45
A cool thing to note is that it’s literal. We do things in our youth (smoke, drink, eat like shit) that definitely affect us later, because the trade off seems more abstract.
As an art teacher, I immediately clocked that shade of blue as the complement of the yellow of the substance ads/packaging. I always love when Chelsea talks about colors!
The split on Letterboxd were women talk about how this movie was a shot through the heart vs the men trying to claim the story was "actually pretty sexist if you think about it" is INSANE
Besides the Male Gaze, we had zero to do with this movie… and it is incredible this way.
as a man i found this movie incredibly relatable. You'd have to have 60 iq to think this was only made for women. This is a human experience that relates thematically to escapism and addiction just as much as beauty standards. which btw there are standards for men too
@uniqueusername22337
🌟
Here's the gold star you were clearly shooting for. You're the specialist boy here.
@@uniqueusername22337men don't make it about yourselves for a single moment challenge
@@uniqueusername22337 dont worry dude you'll be picked eventually.
i haven't seen many people talking about how ironic it is that lizzie crashes her car seeing her face getting ripped apart on a dental ad and that the first thing that starts falling at the end of the movie is sue's teeth
really makes the whole message about missing what you had before in your life stronger
I noticed that the rip to her billboard is the exact same way monstro elizasue rips her picture at home to wear as a mask. Like she came full circle
I'm so glad you brought up how people have started equating morality with looks. I find it disturbing how everyone's seemingly going "Yay, now we have an excuse to mock the way they look" while no one bats an eye.
To be fair that's been a concept in culture since there has been culture, so many times in old fairy tales and myths, appearance has been a short hand of showing the reader who are the moral and immoral characters
@@alansharpe5523 Entirely fair point, maybe I was just hoping we were at least pretending that we had evolved as a society beyond that.
@@alansharpe5523 Exactly. Just for one example, being overweight always seems to be shorthand for a character being lazy, foolish, or selfish. It not only is a reflection of how people perceive real people who look a certain way but it reinforces that existing perception.
@@pusheenqueen519 Completely agree. As a person with a chronic skin condition, it is really tiring seeing bad skin so often equated with being monstorous/creepy/a sign of disease. Horror movies especially love doing it, just think of any scene where a character being itchy/getting a rash is the first sign of something terrible coming...
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I had adolescent scoliosis and had my spine fused at 14. That really allowed me to bow out of the whole "Look good for men" thing, because it was like "I'm a hunchback and ruined already, no man will want me."
I'm kind of grateful for it, because even though it wasn't the greatest attitude to have, it set me free from the anxiety of having to look good. And seeing other women suffer for their looks, I didn't want to join in.
Yeah, i totally get it. I grew up listening to my mom say the vilest sh*t about me for being the “ugliest” in a family full of blonde thin straight haired women… i gave up on tying my value to my looks very soon, and i see know I am not as afraid of aging as people around me, including those very beautiful women of my family. It’s f*cking sad.
yep, I loved this movie but part of me couldn't all the way relate - there was never really a point where I fit the "beauty standard." So this woman having this experience for the first time at 50 is like ... old news
I am black and was adopted by white people who only knew white people, and at church activities when I was a kid all the girls I grew up around were white so that made me feel a bit of freedom with my appearance because it’s like I’m already the odd one out I already look weird here. Also my family was racist so that added to feelings of I’m undesirable already why shouldn’t I shave my eyebrows and have a dyed mullet (both of which I’ve had for years because I like it) but it was just like there was no way for me to ever look normal or fit in with the spaces I was in. I wanted long hair and pale skin so much but I have long learned to love myself and accept my hair just doesn’t grow like that
I had the same exact experience! Having to wear a back brace in middle school really freed me from the pressure of pleasing the male gaze. I was already “undesirable” bc I was damaged but that set me free
Man here, hunchback early too. Its painfull still to this days decades later to see myself in the mirror.
Those articles demeaning Demi Moore and her daughters are absolutely vile. I swear celebrity news outlets are the scum of the earth.
Did anyone notice Sue wears star earrings like Jen in Revenge?
👏
My Nana went to see this with me and my best friend, and she said this was her favorite horror movie of the year! Watching this with her because you are her favorite UA-camrs!
EDIT: You guys are not cringe, the people who stopped watching you in 2019 and don't like how you live by your motto, "Be good people!" are cringe!
Chelsea might be my favorite movie podcaster on the internet. I love how she chooses to think about film and how she does/presents her research.
At 1:46:37 when Elisabeth stops from terminating Sue, I did notice that she plugged the IV switcher directly into Sue’s chest/heart instead of her forearm like they had done all other times in the movie - not sure if it’s relevant but I thought that might have been the catalyst for Sue waking up while Elisabeth was active? A literal kickstart to the heart so to speak.
As a woman who is 41 and, while generally comfortable and happy with herself, finds herself taking longer and longer and longer looks in the mirror and notices more things I wish were not there, I was legitimately heartbroken by the "getting ready" scene, and wholly moved by Demi Moore's performance. It was vulnerable, sad, frustrated, enraged, desperate, over-the-top in all the best ways, and at every second spoke to me in some way. I want to tell people that "Demi deserves a fucking Oscar for this role" but really the performance is too good for the Oscars (especially since we know how the Oscars treat horror).
The sound design got me so hard. I'm glad that my husband and I experienced in theaters. The best part was at the end when SHE was putting in earrings and curling her hair, our audience had to laugh and it was this amazing catharsis after the insanity up until that point.
Been SO excited to hear what y'all (and my girl Chelsea in particular; ❤ you and your perspective) have to say about legit one of my now favorite movies ever.
We’ve had some weird horror adjacent movies in the Oscars lately, so there’s hope. The Oscars voters are a bit of a lost cause, however. Super biased and ignorant
I’m a guy and even I felt bad for her. She wanted to just go on a nice date but couldn’t feel good about herself with that reminder of what she used to look like.
I love how dense this movie is, even for a movie with very clear message. A 2 hour podcast and I don’t even think you guys mentioned “the picture of Dorian gray” which I feel plays a big part in the messaging as well. Love love love it.
Just got back from the film, I couldn't stop thinking about the picture of dorian grey! this film is stacked, maybe even too much, but i think that's better than not enough.
we love a classic chelsea rebecca color analysis!!! pink is not only just a feminine color but is specific for little girls. growing up i went through a phase of “i’m too old to wear pink” which goes right a long with how youthful sue is. i thought the sticky note the guy left could be interpreted as talking about sue. elisabeth will “take care of her” until he gets back. this movie is so interesting and fun to pick through and do different readings of. i hate the rhetoric that this movie isn’t subtle, bc the very straight foward reading is in your face, but there’s so many more interpretations that are subtext! i don’t know i just love this movie and it’s talking about more than what’s on the surface
I ended up not liking this movie, but everytime I wrote a review it ended up more positive then negative because there’s so much I can objectively appreciate (even if it just doesn’t come together for me). I think a movie is really special when I can personally not like it, and still be completely happy that it’s topping so many lists. I’m just so happy movies like this are getting made!
I thought it was good, but overrated. Especially with people coming out of film festivals saying it's the most insane movie ever. I was thinking we were going to get another Dead-Alive or The Thing type of movie where body parts were gonna fly everywhere, but it wasn't like that. The practical effects, production design and directing were fantastic, but I felt the script was lacking in some areas.
Yeah this is a movie I hardcore appreciate because there's a lot of effort put in on all fronts and I don't have anything specific to say that I didn't like other than, I just didn't really vibe with it. I'm surprised at how overwhelmingly positive the reviews have been though which makes me think there's something wrong with my brain for being kind of meh about it.
@@SpookyQuillI don’t think there’s anything wrong with you. You can appreciate how well made something can be, yet still not enjoy it. That’s totally fine and there’s nothing wrong with you for it.
I feel the same way. I'm glad that it was made because it was something new & not another sequel or prequel or remake of of another movie. I also appreciate the practical effects & Demi was fantastic. But for me it's was just an okay movie that I wouldn't watch again. It was boring at times & should've been shorter imo.
I really appreciate Chelsea's vulnerability about body image issues bc I struggle with it all the time
Chelsea is one of my comparisons, hearing her talk about comparison to other women was so healing. No matter what you look like, there's always someone out there DESPERATE for something you have. We all want what we don't have, and it'll never be enough. Comparison truly is the theif of joy.
Well said.
People like you make me sad. You recognize your problem and can't change. Maybe in the next life.
@@mindlanderthanks for your advice on how to fix it, asshat
Not a spoiler: This movie is an all-time classic. I'm so glad you're covering this on podcast!
SPOILER:
This movie is way funnier than I thought it would be. I love how Elisabeth's reaction to Sue's abuse of The Substance changes over time. At first she's horrified-- oh no, a gnarled finger! Then appalled-- gray hair and wrinkles, no! and then-- oh, wtf now what fresh fcukin hell is this... it's a very funny metaphor for the process of aging in general. Omg, this gorgeous wonderful gem of a movie.
I mirror James when he's going off about dudes not washing their hands in the public bathrooms. Every single times, I'm shocked.
Almost all of what I remembered about Demi prior to seeing this film was tied to her looks and marriage to a younger man. I jokingly said after seeing this movie, “the scariest part was pretending that Demi Moore isn’t still hot.” She was so perfectly cast for this role.
SPOILER: I did not realize they shared a consciousness and I feel like a total dunce. I kept thinking, “What is Elizabeth getting out to of this? She is having the life sucked out of her while her adult clone daughter is wildin’ out at her former workplace.” It reminds me of when I was in middle school and saw The Village. At the end of the movie, my friend exclaimed, “Wait, she was blind!? I thought she was just acting weird.”
Hahaha it took me 45 mins to realize that BDH was blind in the village lol
I loved the Frankenstein ending of this movie, with the guy saying she created her (basically saying how society pushed Elizabeth to become this monster) and Elizasue trying to get love from everyone who thinks she's a monster
this film is gonna be a strong contender for the Dead Meat Horror Awards for 2025, as I have a feeling that this film could potentially sweep the award show's awards
I knew that this episode was gonna be a long one because this movie has just so much going on. I love it so much.
ETA: I feel like the casting of Demi Moore (from her history to how incredibly beautiful she is) was incredibly deliberate to the point where I almost feel like it might not have worked as well if someone else played Elisabeth.
Agree on the casting of Demi Moore. She basically invented (with Annie Liebowitz, of course) the naked pregnant belly magazine cover and has always had an insane amount of scrutiny (some of it invited) around her body. All that baggage feels essential to the character.
My friend, who isn’t a horror fan but went to see this with me because I’m going through a breakup and they’re being supportive, saw this with me without googling anything. By the time Elisasue was on screen I was laughing out of sheer “oh fuck I shouldn’t have brought you to see this” and they were staring at me with the knowledge that I now owe them SO MANY favors
I bet your friend was happy to see you laugh, even when he or she had to suffer 😂
Very vulnerable moments in the podcast. Saying out loud things that many people internalize. Thanks for keeping it real.
This episode made me cry... James talking about his dad, and Chelsea's insights into the getting ready scene, it just hits so close to home 😢
An elderly couple sat behind me and, despite my worries, they were reacting and laughing all the right ways.
That along with Graessle’s comments makes me hope that maybe, just maybe I could get my mom to watch it because I think that she’d really love what it has to say.
@@iheartbusterk82 I watched it with my mom and she loved it! To be fair she's not really that old, she's only 46 AND she's pretty open to modern sensitivities and could interpret the movie in a non literal way, so I guess she just had the right combination of factors lol
Same at my movie theater. There was a old woman sitting in the front row just laughing her ass off.
This movie will resonate differently at different times in one's life. I'm 52 and think it's pretty funny. I hope I get to live into my 80s & lmao at The Substance.
I saw Annabelle and a very old woman was the only person in the theater and she loved it. Also I saw terrifier 3 next to an elderly couple and they were cracking up.
dragged my mom and dad to watch it with me and they LOVED IT
my mom hates horror and being scared but said that this movie made her think and reflect about herself (being 51 and all) so much that she didn’t mind the gore at all
both of them grew up with demi moore and say that this was poetic justice for everything that hollywood put her through and gave her kudos for committing so much
10/10 experience
This movie is my absolute favorite that I've seen in years. The tag line "it will change your life" is so accurate as a viewer. Everyone I've known that's seen it hasn't been able to stop thinking about it. All I've done is talk about it since.
I think something fascinating this movie does that not enough people talk about is how, if given a second body to inhabit, someone that hates themselves as much as Elisabeth does would absolutely start ruining their hated selve's life even though she is one and the same person.
Walked out of this movie absolutely stunned and this podcast only made me love it more. Loved especially the lens of "beating up your own body" and felt it in a different way, sometimes getting frustrated over just... mental health and dysfunction.
One of my favorite little beats you didn't mention - when Elisabeth is doing all her "witch cooking" and she's beating together just a TON of eggs. Had to be a conscious choice after what Dennis Quaid said to her about what you lose at 50!
right at the end she is only free when she completely detaches herself-*literally* frees herself-from her body. there is nothing left to judge, to be seen, to compare, to be not good enough anymore. she is finally free. this will never not make me emotional.
I gotta say, I was so excited for this podcast! I loved this movie!
As a transman, I get the unique experience of seeing both the 'sides' of aging and beauty standards. I've gotta say, this film is excellent about the horror and pressure of aging as a woman vs the acceptance of an older man. When I was more feminine, read as a woman in society, the massive amount of pressure to preserve my youth and "stay beautiful" was honestly kinda horrifying. I was being told that my beauty was something to hold onto because it will fade. Double horrifying because I was 10!
Young girls are being told they're only valuable when they're pretty and eventually that value will disappear.
Young boys are not being told that their value will degrade, in fact they are celebrated to age and "become men." They aren't tied 100% to their looks, unlike girls. However there is the universal "if you're fat, you will never be pretty" which is a whole nother issue tied to "good looks."
It's just sexism in society.
But, to get into a trans view, I wept for Elizabeth Sparkle. Having who you are just thrown out is awful, especially since it can not be helped. It's not a choice to be trans and it's not a choice to age. It's just awful for you to be yourself and to have society just reject you outright. However the balance between Sue and Elizabeth feels accurate to the perception of being looked at as a transman. It feels like a beautifully violent depiction of the inner self still deserving worth despite how awful it feels to exist. The societal pressure is so fucking real.
This movie really resonated with me. I am by no means old, only 26, but the emphasis on appearances (especially women’s) has played a huge part in my life. For years I’ve missed opportunities, been overlooked, and had people validate treating me poorly all because they didn’t find me attractive. It’s a nightmare being young and not having the conventional beauty to “enjoy” it. I’ve felt uninvited to many occasions because I wasn’t on anyone’s radar and have had men literally push past me to talk to my more attractive friends. The thing is, I’m not even “ugly” I just didn’t put emphasis on my looks and play into gendered expectations. But once I got older and started naturally finding interest in fashion and makeup, the treatment changed. It’s taught me that beauty is a form of currency and will elevate or lower your quality of life.
As a stay at home mom, I can wholeheartedly say, I hope that my kids have more then what I ever could possibly dream of having. It is my job and joy to put great people out into this world. 💚
Favorite movie of the year so far! Loved your guys' commentary on it, especially Chelsea. Obviously men can still relate to this movie, but this is certainly a movie with a woman's voice. I'm 27 and I'm already feeling the pressures that Chelsea and this movie talked about. I loved how Chelsea described it as angry but also joyful. It's fucked up subject matter but the movie felt like fun the whole time while still having so much empathy and heart and not feeling totally doom and gloom. Really, really special film.
I really fucking loved this movie! Also I find it so funny that not only does Sue get a job and immense fame without ever giving a last name… but she also doesn’t have a social security number 🤣🤣🤣 also the substance trimmed her bush 😂
Ahhhhh!!! A 2 hour podcast on the best horror movie of the year!! Let’s do it🔥🔥
LOVE THE LONGER PODCASTS!!!
1:39:00 TY for the palm trees explanation! Imagine if they had the molting in the movie!!
Death Becomes Her reference making my decade. Everyone I suggest this movie to has never even heard of it and it's one of my absolute favorites!
Seeing this in the theater was such a profound experience. I went with friends, one of whom was upset with me personally for traumatizing him. As we walked out, a woman said, "You guys are lucky that you have each other. I came by myself".
Thank you for mentioning Dennis Quaid not washing his hands in the restroom. That made me barf more than the other scenes. Not to mention he went and ate wet shrimp right after, then goes to shake someone’s hands. Really clarifies that his hands are dirty in what happened with Elisabeth. Then with the ending scene it’s just made clear that they all got blood on their hands(and faces) coz they all played a part in what happened to her.
Also the ending star scene where it’s a pool of blood really ties back to the ketchup spilled on her star at the beginning.
Love this film!
The interesting thing about the jellyfish imagery; is there is a specific jellyfish that is effectively immortal because it just reverts back to its polyp stage at the end of its life cycle.
I went to see this with two friends and our theater was packed. I had heard the hype and had a vague idea of the plot, but nothing could have prepared me. We were all blown away! One of the best theater experiences I've had in at least a decade. Everyone was screaming, and laughing, and gasping. Then there were long moments of fascinated silence. It was perfect. I loved it.
Watched this last week in theaters and I've been waiting ever since for it to be on the podcast. What a time for horror fans. The true horror of this film was definitely the food.
I also think a great angle to analyze this film from is literal substance abuse. Using the substance is never enough, what the substance does for you is never enough. Which can also be applied to the obsession women can have with trying to live up to what they deem the beauty standard to be-the makeup, skincare, fillers, and plastic surgery also ends up never being enough.
I am a woman who is ‘almost’ 50 and this movie hit me really hard. The scene where Elizabeth was getting ready to go on her date was devastating.
Hearing Chelsea talk about feeling frumpy made me sad. She's absolutely gorgeous.
This movie is shot beautifully. Loved the Dennis Quaid scenes of him essentially manspreading in every frame and having zero self awareness because, as a middle age successful white man, he didn’t need to. Juxtaposed with Demi Moores character who is all consumed by her appearance because that’s all the world has valued her for in her life. It’s great.
Also its subtle but the scene where Elizabeth is blending the eggs with a hand blender, you hear the sound of a chain saw as the eggs splash on her face kind of a nod to Texas chainsaw I feel like which is hilarious cause its a blender and eggs. Also there was a glorious scene with both elizabeths body and sues body laying next to each other on the bathroom floor, then it transitions to two eggs on a frying pan, I didn't notice this til my third time watching.
My boyfriend and I saw this and walked out of the theater stunned. He broke the silence with “Anne Hathaway could NEVER!” I laughed so hard!
When they talk about how mean we are to our bodies, it hit me so hard. Probably TMI, but I just came back from an out-of-state wake and it's so true. A college friend had passed away at 38 after drinking his liver into oblivion. Juxtaposed with that, I was staying with my Aunt and Uncle and my 72 year old uncle is suffering the consequences of life long smoking. I try to take care of myself and workout but wonder if I am doing enough? Am I doing too much and am accidentally hurting myself? I truly hope I am hitting that happy middle ground for a long and healthy life.
Ashton Kutcher's relationship with Mila Kunis is much more questionable than Demi Moore's relationship with Kutcher ever was
They met when she was 14 because she lied about her age to get on the show.
Loved this movie so much I saw it 3 times in theaters because I wanted to show my friends and family. I even made a prop of the "activator" bottle and syringe full of that neon green liquid, im dare I say obsessed. Its a great horror film which was surprisingly funny! Great cinematography, tons of nods to other horror films heavily on the shinning. Absolutely love it, glad I got to show my friends and fam in theaters.
Chelsea, there are some hand sanitizer lotions you should try for conventions!! My hands get so dry in the winter and having the lotion really helps, especially if you’re applying it a lot!
The bathroom discussion reminded me of the "Sexy Getting Ready Song," from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, which was another purposefully unglamorous look at the cost of beauty standards
YES!!!
For me this movie is Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde for baddies. A mix of Death Becomes Her + Society + Videodrome. Also the final minutes are low-key a homage to King Kong and maybe Braindead lol. Coralie Fargeat is a genius and she KNOWS what she wants! She created a modern classic.
james and chelsea always make me excited to rewatch and appreciate a movie more. it's great to hear them just really like stuff.
During the monster sue mirror scene there was one girl in the theatre who could not stop hysterically laughing and one guy across the theatre screamed “shut the fuck up” 😂
I'm turning 30 in less than a month and take satisfaction in knowing there's men out there that are offended I don’t feel anxious, dreading, or less beautiful at the prospect of being out of my 20s.
Seriously, there's so many men and even other women who seem to take it as a personal insult when women over 30 don’t hate themselves and are just living their best lives.
I've watched this movie with my wife last Friday, and we both agreed it's absolutely fantastic and a spectacle of a movie that HAS to be seen in cinemas to fully have it's chance of grasping you. The way nudity is used, and it makes your gaze forced unto seeing aesthetically pleasing things - which then makes you feel creeped out for watching - is SO effective.
Oh man, you guys have fully convinced me to see this movie. I was hearing a lot of stuff about the body horror and wasn't sure, but this seems like an instant fav for me. Even if they do sometimes whack you over the head with it, if a movie has something it really wants to say with its whole heart, I always appreciate it. Especially with an issue so universal and yet so specific as this. Thanks for the thoughtful commentary as always.
27:12 I'm sorry, but as a guy who's had muscle dysmorphia since high school this really got me. Thank you Chelsea
really appreciated chelsea’s perspective on this one- this movie made me think about my relationship w my body way more than expected lol
Love the podcast, I don't listen to anything as diligently as I used to but y'all remain at the top of my podcast rotation. Chelsea's deep dive into the thematic significance of children in different countries' horror remains one of my favorite single podcasts I've ever listened to.
FWIW I'm in my 40s and it's not bad at all. The way i stressed out about it, in retrospect, feels a lot like the stress I had around turning 30. In both cases, once it happened i realised there was no need to have got so stressed about it.
Chelsea's comment about Sue molting like a bug made me think of a cicada - and, as Cronenberg comparisons go, we know how The Fly works.
Best description I heard..."The Substance is a movie that watched that crazy scene in Society and said "Hold my beer..."
I mean, maybe I’m just getting older now too but-Demi Moore is still an absolute stunner from where I’m at
James & Chelsea have always made great podcast episodes, but this one reminds me of why I love to hear their own personal takes on recent or past horror films for so many years.
I 1000% agree with Chelsea on how celebrity men are shown in media, especially superhero movies.
Chris Hemsworth, Michael B Jordan, and Miles Teller don't look like that 24/7.
And what's sad is that, they're already in good shape, so the work of them going through rigorous diets is uneeded.
It's like putting a hat on a hat.
1:03:00 also because pink is a derivative of red, but also technically is just a shade of red; just like Elisabeth and Sue's relationality to one another.
aww I’m sorry people call you cringe! I just wanna say you guys are so cool! I’m in my 20s but I aspire to be like you Dead Meat. Child free and talking about horror movies with a little dog sounds amazing to me. Also 1:29:56 is so sad, you’ve always reminded me of Anne Hathaway Chelsea!
As an older young person (I'm 24), you will never be cringe to me, dead meat crew!
I just got back from seeing this at the cinema and omg a 2 hour podcast??? This is the best feeling. Can't wait to hear your thoughts as I was blown away by this film
the thing that always gets me with the type of subject matter a film like this delves into is just how universal those experiences can be, like obviously it happens to women, it happens to men too, and by extension it happens to trans and non-binary people, like we're just getting hit in the crossfire with this shit. as someone who does NOT identify as a woman in any way yet still presents as traditionally "feminine," so many beauty standards out there still end up affecting me because of how often i'm misgendered. and like yeah, it's a whole other can of worms to say "if i don't want people to think i'm a woman, then i should put more effort into passing as a man," but it'll always be a lose-lose situation because i'll never be Enough to be either side of that binary, which is stupid as hell when i'm not a part of it in the first damn place. plus, this isn't even getting into how race/ethnicity plays a part in this (coming from someone who's also mixed native american), like just as one example: i can't even do fun stuff with my hair without having to weigh my options of do i want to pass or do i want to honor my culture?
but gods forbid you try to broach that subject in a movie without people calling it "woke garbage"......
Thank you for talking about the crazy societal standards when it comes to doing something amazing and noteworthy before 30. Like the rest of your life doesn't matter and you should give up after that age. Keep creating and don't give up. You may strike gold later than you anticipated and it'll still be gold! ❤
There are certain RULES that one must abide by in order to successfully survive The Substance. For instance, number one: you can never go longer than a week. Number two you have to feed the body unused. Number three: you must subscribe to Dead Meat.😂
This movie is absolutely a contender to sweep the Dead Meat Awards, and (while it never happens for horror movies), Demi Moore deserves an Oscar nom. I mean, so do most of the cast and crew, but this feels like Moore’s magnum opus, because it’s just so incredibly _different_ to anything that she’s done before, and that kind of bravery and risk deserves credit.
Best podcast yet guys. Cannot wait to see the movie. Chelsea, your honesty and self-reflection are so brave. I hope lots of young people are listening hard. What a role model!
Not even a minute ago and im already getting more podcast? My smoke sesh is about to be lit af, such a lovely treat this wednesday 💛💛
1:37:43 when Gresley whispers into the mic “it’s so fucking good”😂😂
Dennis Quaid eating them shrimp is definitely the most horrific scene of the movie. I cannot stand close ups of people eating 😂
🦐🦐🦐🦐🦐
I saw The Substance in the cinema with my 70 year old mum. She really responded to it, even though she'd never really seen any body horror before. What a film!
Accidentally took my little brother to see this one. He was completely shocked and didn't know how anyone could like it. I loved it so much.
Love that you guys addressed the snow because I was like thats not realistic but you are right it set that fantasy hollywood whimsy that comes with the film
The Substance is probably my favorite horror film this year so far. And of course just an absolute love letter to Kubrick. Glad to see you guys covering it. 💜
The best movie this year, and it's phenomenal. Demi and Margaret should get their Oscar because i'm going to riot if they won't