125,000mi e-Golf Battery Health Check! Degradation Test On My Cheap Electric 24kWh Volkswagen Golf
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- Опубліковано 24 гру 2023
- Kyle and Alyssa head out in the 2016 VW e-Golf with 125,000mi or just over 200,000km! Let's see how much capacity is left in this battery pack...
@bjornnyland's e-Golf test results can be found at this linkdocs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
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70% health and a well-balanced battery after 200k Kilometers and estimated 2,700 cycles. It doesn't even have liquid thermal management! I'd say that's about as good as it gets.
Thank you for saving my time that's all I wanted to know
@@ycnexu Oh you mean you didnt want to spend 36 minutes watching this? lol
Cheers. Summed up over 30 minutes of waffle saving me having to watch it past where those dreadful rims were put on that poor car.
Same here. Too many long vids.
OMG REALLY?? Your going to do all that work and NOT replace the 12V battery? That's the FIRST item on the fix list! LOL
Haha it’s coming - I didn’t know if it was dead from sitting at the dealer or if it was dying due to age. It’s definitely age
Agreed and it costs nothing.
@KyleConner which vehicle do you prefer more the Golf ev or Mercedes B electric? Also which of the two has the best range? Could you make a video comparing both of them?
Keep up the great work your doing ⚡
Evs only need 12v to connect HV battery contacts, after that dc to dc inverter takes over pumping 14.1-14.4 Volts. Hell battery is a tiny 40ah 12v. Keep a jump pack in car and it will start every time till you replace.
I think there's a safety recall for the trim around the gearshift. The metal can cut your hand so be sure to mention it to your VW dealer if you take it to get checked out.
It's campaign 34J7/34L9
I commented this previously, but posting again just for visibility.
Thank you! We have a petrol Golf from the same generation and can confirm it cuts our hands if not very careful
It’s the plastic which can break and turn into needle like shards.
Yesssss this^^^^. Hands have been cut multiple times.
The return of driving gloves, just for safety
I had a 2006 VW (gas) Passat that had a chrome-on-plastic transmission selector button. I removed the chrome after it began to peel. It would cut you if you were not watching.
These short range EVs are fantastic 2nd vehicles. For many they can cover 90% of the driving.
Completely true, though best for people who have a good charging situation, like a level 2 in the garage. Also, car companies shouldn't make them any more simply because battery prices have dropped since then. Tiny city cars should have 150-200 mile range. Anything bigger 250+.
having 2 cars isn't ecologigal at all, just waste of resources and energy
@@janiikavalko4046 These cars are already built. If you can use it to not burn gas, it's a win. Many families have 2 or 3 vehicles that are gas. If this replaces one of those, it's a win. Comparing an EV against something else you wish people would do, but won't, is dumb. It is a less impactful car.
@janiikavalko4046 It is if the other car is an ICE car. Ecologically, ICE cars are best not driven. Every mile driven on electricity instead of petroleum is an ecological win.
@@usa-ev ICE's aren't to blame. Only fossil fuel, you're completely out of here when it comes to truth. ICE can run on methane and hydrogen, you should know by now. BioGas driven cars are common practice past 30 years.
I bet your old 12v is drawing a lot more power than you would expect via the dc/dc converter. Your range will probably improve after replacing the 12v.
looks like the generator is somekind of draging the car.maybe
It wouldn't surprise me. If the battery can't hold a charge then the high voltage battery is powering the car AND charging it AND powering the accessories too.
You realize old/bad SLA's typically dont pull any power when bad, right?
Regardless thats so little power it doesnt matter.
@@scott8919 exactly. It is surprising how much energy is used to keep dead 12v’s alive.
@@56335130 There is no generator, it is not an ICE car. The 12 V come from a DC/DC converter out of the HV battery.
Since the pack was only 20kWh, 125,000 miles is the equivalent amount of cycles to an 80kWh battery with 500,000 miles. Not too bad!
Fixing that 12v battery will get rid of the few weird bugs. VWs hate having a weak battery.
The traction control issues and regen issues you were having were likely due to the poor alignment. The alignment being fixed cleared the codes after their multi-trip detection number was bypassed, where they could self clear.
for my e-Golf, I purchased Everstart H6 AGM battery from Walmart. Great product and fair price.
Those wheels 😍
I love my 2020 VW e-Golf, but will be happy replacing it in 2025 with a Volvo EX30
Been thinking about replacing my 2015 with the same.
@@bigmahlmansame here. I have a 2015 egolf that I have loved, but the ex30 looks like a great replacement for a similar size but way more range. I've been getting just over 50 miles on a charge here in Utah in the winter.
Same here. Got an "exclusive" 2020 model. The last one they made with all the extras.
Only downside is the dog slow fast charging if the battery is not warm enough. I haven't tested driving it far to see if it heats up enough, but I've only been getting 25kW on fast chargers after winter came. Temps haven't been above +5C in a while and its been down to -20C.
Great video. The E golf is an extremely popular car in Denmark. In 2020 VW dropped the prices on it and it had no taxes on it. (Normal petrol cars have 150% tax on top of the cars value). So in USD equivelant it was probably around 15k new in 2020
And that was for 36.4 kWh with the possibility of cheap leather interior, full LED headlights and dynaudio sound
Will be popular car among young people i guess. I hear Danish people also imported a lot of EV's from Germany. :) Just like me from the Netherlands haha
Nice x-mas-greetings from Germany. It's nice to see that You appreciate our old cars. This is sustainable. At the end of the day You got the Golf for the price of an average e-bike. So it is okay that You have a range of an e-bike.
I’d totally buy one for 3500€ too. For the price and for short commutes around town this is perfect. It doesn’t have to be an iPhone on wheels with gigantic batteries.
Alyssa seems like a reasonable person and views these EV's like a tool that either makes the job easy or it doesn't. A 50 mile range car fills a very narrow job scope.
this range is so problematic, i can't see using it for anything other than a few market trips or whatever..
125,000 miles with EPA range of 83 miles means the battery went through 1,506 equivalent full cycles. If my 2018 Model 3 RWD went through that many cycles, it would have covered 466,867 miles. 31% degradation actually isn't that bad for that many cycles. I leased a 2015 e-Golf LE (the one US market variant that came with steel wheels) and extended it two months until we took delivery of our Model 3. The e-Golf was a good car for what it was - a short range compliance car. With home charging, it did everything we needed.
Well, considering on avg 18kWh/100 and 200k kilometers... we're talking over 1600 cycles on that battery. So for those old cars that's pretty amazing. I could easily imagine the newer models with more experience of the manufacturers and bigger size of the batteries to get 500k+ out of most EVs.
This car is 7 years old, that's not 'old', 500k ur dreaming... battery capacity is a function of both useage and age.... cons of EVs...
And this car has NCM cells which cannot do that many cycles like LFP batteries who can do 3x as many cycles. And NCM is far more unstable and likely to have cell failure.
It's not old it's new. Pile of junk
A fella here in the UK has an Ioniq that has done 50k miles and it's battery has degraded only 3%!
I don't know if it's already been mentioned, but there is a Volkswagen Service document with some interesting information (e.g. when balancing is done) about the e-Golf. It's called SSP530 (Selbststudienprogramm 530).
a year ago, there was a guy with egolf 20kwh version and over 260.000km (162.000 miles) almost only AC charging, he said that he didn't notice any major degradation, and he was very very happy wit the car...
You can fit cruise control on a golf. It's just a case of changing the stalk for the one with the cruise buttons and then coding it in the ecu, really cheap and easy.
Golfs have it easier than other cars when it comes to CC. The cruise control functions are built in into the left side of the steering wheel. He will eventually change steering wheel, so he can easily get CC by getting a CC equipped steering wheel.
The e-Golf is based on the MK7 I believe, so the CC buttons is on the wheel. The older MK6 had it on the left stalk.
Retrofit on e-golf not so simple. ECU needs updating by VW to enable it. It can’t be done with VCDS.
I think they threw the baby out with the bathwater when they designed the iD3. There is so much they could have taken from this car (esp. interior) that just 'works' ergonomically and looks great.
The ID3 is really bad. The design is off, the interior screams idgaf and the price is way too high
@@christopher4162I love driving my ID3 but I have to agree that the interior is "meh"
@@bentmatt it’s not all bad but overall they could have done more. It’s underwhelming. Maybe once the used prices come down it’s going to be a good value.
@@christopher4162 mine had been a loaner car at the dealer for about 1 year when I got it. Only had 200km on the odometer. Got it 20% off compared to new price. I am not sure I would have paid full price.
But the ID2 looks really promising. Too bad it's not coming sooner.
I had similar thoughts about Fiat 500e it could have done a lot of good with a mild refresh slightly bigger battery capacity
One thing I can say about the traction control, if the steering wheel was off center the steering angle sensor would definitely cause the traction control to turn on, that will reduce power and disable regeneration.
Another thing to consider is an EV heater uses a decent amount of energy, it reduces range by 1 mile per 5 miles, 20% reduction in range. I have a 2015 Smart fortwo electric, 18kwh battery, 65 miles range and 60,000 miles. Amazing little car ❤ P.S. I love the VW Golf and wish I would have found one before ❤
Change the 12 v battery, you have those faults because off bad battery.
You know, I should be bored with some of your videos, but I never am. You always throw in interesting things showing how much of an expert you really are.
when someone tells you its a $3500 ev and only the wheels cost that much :D
GlaLd to Alyssa back on camera. Your early road trips in the Model 3 are still some of my favorite videos. I really like the look of the e-golf. It's a neat little car but the tiny battery is too small. Even if the battery was 45-50 kw it would be remarkably more useful. Love the videos on these inexpensive cars, though.
I have lost about 9% of original capacity (assuming 31.5 kWh usable when new) at 64,000 miles on my 2017 e-Golf. It lost about 4% since 20,000 miles.
Similar results on our 2016, less than 10% lost as we approach 60,000 miles (battery has been fully drained multiple times, always charged to 100%, seen -20 F and 115 F weather). Not bad for early batteries with no thermal management.
@@roadfordays nice to hear. I think VW was pretty conservative with e-Golf pack. Kyle’s car has a ton of miles on it so probably saw a lot of DCFC and 100% SoC. I usually charge to 80% or 90% and I do use DCFC about two dozen times a year.
I recently bought a 2018 VW Passat GTE hybrid. I use the EV mode around town and the ICE part between cities. The menu's are pretty much the same as your VW. I had to get used to it like you did in the videos. I am hoping that by the time my small battery dies I can get a replacement with a much larger range if they manage to use like Amprius cells for the replacement unit. Love the VW build quality on mine (all leather/digital dash/pano roof). I did consider a used Model S but in the end decided against it due the expected rapid depreciation with new models and battery ranges that are about to hit the market in the coming years. Greetings from Amsterdam!
I've had the 2016/24kW and now in the 2019/36kW. My 16 had about 8% degradation at 56K miles with lots of DCFC. My 19 sees far less DCFC and has about 5% degradation at 34K. These egolfs are great cars. Very safe, fun to drive and economical. I use my truck to go farther that 150 miles.
Those wheels look sick!!!! What sort of headlights does it have? The front lights look a lot like halogen reflector housings but surely they wouldn't put those on an e-golf? If it indeed has halogens you could update the car with a led kit that is TUV certified in Germany for those cars (so one with a good light pattern), i believe osram and philips both make them.
The base trim e-Golf in the US market did have halogens. An LED upgrade in the same housing should be an easy swap.
I live in Colorado Springs and actually considered buying that car. I owned a 2015 and currently own a 2017. When I saw the screenshot of the dash, I did the math and came up with at least 40 % degradation and decided to pass. I’m glad I did considering all the other problems.
Golf’s/GTIs put a smile on everyone’s face. I laughed as Kyle got excited about resetting the service notification.
Love your channel and enthusiasm! You sound like I do when I first buy something, it goes from a few things to an almost complete overhaul quickly.
I can tell you why the car doesn't want to move any more on 9,4% SOC
Max cell voltage is at 3,45V but min cell voltage at 2,97V and that's right on the edge of unhealthy
degraded for sure, but usable. I am curious what the options on swapping the battery are
Also 18.3 kWh/100km is pretty much for this car. I run mine at 12kWh/100km in summer and 16 in winter with heating and cheap rims and tires. Maybe your 12V battery has a shorted cell or something and is bubbling around under the hood wasting energy
Great video! For me personally, a 75km range is good enough for 90% of my yearly driving. My home and business are roughly 5km apart - so I can go there, even drive to get lunch, then drive back to work and home just fine. My nearest supermarket, hardware stores and even closest friends are all within a 3km radius of my home.
Even in its form, this Golf would be useful for me. In addition to having a garage at home, I have access to fast chargers at my closest shopping malls.
It was nice to have Alyssa join on one of these technical videos!
Y'all really should stop at O'Reilly's and get a new 12-volt battery it would help a lot. $250 bucks.
it is nice to get alyssa's viewpoint/thoughts
I got a 2019 E-golf about 6 months ago and I love it.
Loving the wheels,good video guys ,Merry Christmas from the UK👍😉💪
Really enjoying this series of episodes. Thank you for sharing Kyle, Alyssa. Looking at purchasing either an old e-golf or e-up ...
Alyssa, even committing a pronunciation mistake multiple time, manages to do it in a very cute gentle way, making video more watchable.
🎁 That's a good Christmas present!
Great test. I reallly agree on that everyone keeps track on their own degradation from when the EV is new. I have done that on my two e-trons. Logging every long trip in excel with focus on available battery. It gives a nice graph and you learn how it fluctuates based on temrpature, speed ++
Thank you for the test. That pack was really abused. I routinely get 5 mi/kWh on my e-Golf so you could get close to 65 miles if you are really careful and stay off highway.
but he was on the freeway and open road and he had on the heater. Also, it was cold outside.. 47 miles is good for a battery in those conditions with 125k miles on it.
The wheels and tires also make a difference. The stock wheels were designed the way they were for a reason…
In Colorado winter temps (often subzero F), the eGolf gets more like 2 mi/kwh, assuming you are using the heater and the battery is at ambient. I have seen 40 miles range in the winter on a pack that will go 110 miles in the summer. But yeah, it's easy to top 5 mi/kwh in more normal temps, even with the A/C on. Little light batteries make for very efficient cars.
@@roadfordays
Yeah. The cold temps which keep battery range down and lack of charging stations are keeping people from buying these electric cars..Not everyone lives in San Diego where there are hundreds of ChargesPoint and EVgo stations and the weather is extremely mild.
California also has tons of EV financial assists and rebate programs too for new and used cars.
@mamadouaziza2536 Colorado actually beats California's incentives and the Front Range has solid charging infrastructure, but it's absolutely true that no one can use an eGolf in nearby Wyoming yet due to lack of charging, long distances, and weather. Both areas are big fossil fuel and clean energy producers, but politics mean very different approaches to the EV transition
It would be awesome to see the restoration being done, on this German Pearl,, 👍🌟🌟👍
Those wheels look great!
That's crazy because I have a 2015 e golf, with 120k miles and still get 75 miles to the charge. I've also been fast charging it twice a day for the last 3 years. My daily commute is 65 miles one way.
would be a nice project to replace old cells with brand new latest gen LFP cells
With that range and capacity you essentially have a gen 2 Chevy Volt without the range extender! Which is pretty good all things considered, I'd daily that thing no problem. I rarely dip into the range extender in the Volt anyway AND you can fast charge the e-Golf so...
I am also loving my e-Golf did the same with upgrading the wheels and tires. Would love to see some real world numbers on range loss from doing this as I know quite a few have as well. Would be good to see if weight or aerodynamics or sizing is the biggest factor in the loss.
Thank You for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth.... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste.. 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮ ❤
Awsome. Please more.... Very cheap and really working: But a small bowl of fresh ground coffee (powder) over night and all smells are gone. Cheers from Switzerland
Should read: Put a small bowl of fresh ground coffee...
Had a 2015 e-golf for 30k miles and loved it as a city/commuter car.
Cool! I like the idea of an e-Golf but never got one because of the minimal range. I actually was surprised to see it had a CCS port. I kinda figured it was old enough to have Chademo.
Our e-Golf drops to 12 kWh/100 km or 5.2 miles/kWh in summer so I think you'll then be able to do more than 60 miles.
When at empty the lowest cell was at 2.9V and the highest at 3.4V so there is definitely one or more weak cells in there. But typically there isn't much capacity below 3.4V so it may be less dramatic then it sounds
Great running to the store or work or grammas house car. I want one!
Good video! Since you said you maybe replace the steering wheel try looking at an used leather steering wheel with cruise control and radio buttons! WOuld be nice to put cruise on 55
Steering wheel was off center with bad toe alignment. I think the wheel alignment is what fixed the traction control and Regen issues
First thought was excellent wheel choice.
Car scanner should be able to show remaining capacity in Wh. I find that more useful than SoC in %.
It does, but the number is not usually correct. You should do a degradation test instead
@@santerixdxd he did. At it was showing 10% SoC at 0 km display range.
Nice test - had a 2016 SE that to this day still regret trading for my 2021 ID.4 AWD. Backup camera is a very common issue among all MKVII Golf's and like your example mine worked ~90% of the time, I didn't bother with trying to resolve it. Your horn not working might be resolved with replacing the horns themselves, mine had a short and replacing the fuse would give me one honk before it burned the fuse again - worth a shot to see if fuse is burned and replace it to see if you can get one honk before it burns again before you go digging in further.
In the app you could see the lowest and highest cell voltage: 2.98V and 3.4V. thats some serious difference!
Your gonna have a helluva compliance car fleet soon!
Keep up the good work
Thank you!
Alignment was probably screwing up individual wheel speeds…….which is critical for ESP……….And NOT caused by Sway bar pre-load🙄😂
69% nice
12V battery is bad?...... better put some wheels on it, and get it detailed too. I'm not going to bother changing the battery.
Check the cells imbalance/voltage with the ODB device you've got?
You need to do a full AC charge to 100% and then leave it for 12 hours so that the cells balance correctly. DC charging falses the data..
yeah, I've noticed poor range performance after dc charging
I think the E-Golf has a wrong steering wheel. This is a good opted car with no steering wheel buttons?
Base trim e-Golf in the USA had that stupid wheel with no buttons. He should be glad his car has the 7.2kW OBC and CCS charging. The super base trim had J1772 AC only charging with only 3.6kW OBC.
I would have done the suspension work BEFORE I got it aligned. Now you will need to align it again once the suspension work is done.
Most shops won't do alignments if the suspension has problems.
The suspension is probably fine these cars be bouncy lol he just doesn’t know what he’s talking about
😅Alyssa has her rescues and Kyle has his.
47 miles on the freeway and open road isn't bad at all for a battery in cold weather and high elevation. Plus the heater was on in the car. This battery has over 125k miles on it.. I wonder what the mileage would be in warmer weather in stop and go city traffic?
These short range EVs have less head room for degradation. In future they should phase out tax incentives for new EVs and start incentives for battery Replacements on these early EVs to keep them on the road. I replaced my Fiat with a Bolt, the Fiat still feels solid and fun to drive.
The washer reservoir will crack when the wrong fluid is in there and it freezes. I hate when that happens
I have seen so many videos of people out west in the USA just using water for the fluid reservoir and even for coolant.
Seems like you should replace the 12 volt battery before the degradation test
You’d think that would have been the first and easiest thing to do…
Thanks for sharing.
I recall I could get the DC and AC total charging values (or number of sessions) using an OBDEleven dongle in my old e-Golf. Maybe you can try to get that info with that ultraexpensive diagnostics machine...
Look into the 3D printed inserts for the front grill and do a video on those. I want to see if it improves range at highway speed or increases range during city driving.
Watching this series from Germany is quite nice to see you driving this "tiny" car in the US and getting the feeling that Alisa is not impressed by the image of the car. I myself have a Golf 7 TFSI DSG with 80k miles from 2012. It is impressive to see that somebody was able to rip the suspension apart(Maybe US roads are worse than in Germany?). Looking forward to see what is costs you in the US to fix the suspension and minor optical issues of the car. The e motor and efficiency shall be realy good with this car and standard consumption should be at 14.0 kWh/km. So even with the small battery and the 69% remaining you can drive it well as your daily car to work and back, especially if you can charge it at home or at work. The sad story about VWs e-Golf is that there was a prototype Golf(build by Kreisel Electric) ready in 2015 with a 55,7kWh battery and fast charging up to 100 kWh... but VW did not want to buy this solution and build/sell it. This would have been a big game changer, instead they made the 35kWh battery upgrade which is ok, but too less for many people. The only reason they did so was to keep selling the gasoline cars and have an argument for the ID.3 with 58kWh. If the Golf had litteraly the "same" battery, the same charging peak and curve it would have been the better car compared to the ID.3 and as we know today it would be even less pricy to buy.
Interesting test!
That degradation is pretty rough. I had a Ford Focus Electric that had far more capacity remaining after 8 years, although not with over 100k on the odometer. The FFE has liquid cooled batteries, IIRC the e-Golf is air cooled. Great video
47 miles on the freeway and open road isn't bad at all for a battery in cold weather and high elevation. Plus the heater was on in the car. This battery has over 125k miles on it.. I wonder what the mileage would be in warmer weather in stop and go city traffic?
Great Soccer Mom car, run to school & stores.
What phone app are you using for battery status?
love this car
What about changing the battery? What would that entail? Did you change the interior? And/Or how is the smoke smell going?
What a machine!!! Hahaha Jeremy Clarkson would be so proud 😂
Fun!
Thanks.
VW for the win! The rapid charging on this makes it so much more useful just a Björn has also agreed.
There was a lady in the news here who bought a similar car. The electric motor died in it just as it went out of warranty period and they didn't replace it. Costs more to replace/fix than the entire car's price.
I know electric cars have some quirks and ICE vehicles also suffer from issues at times but I would never buy a VW-group electric vehicle.
ABS light went off because you set tracking correctly and steering wheel is straight again. Then ABS has recalibrated and warning lights went off
Just passed a storage lot with a lot of hay, like really a lot! But no big deal for open ag land where a lot of cattle live. I suppose in terms of horse-and-buggy days that amount of hay (or, sorry, it may be alfalfa or another crop) would keep your going-to-town buggy fueled for a couple years maybe? Not familiar with those days but have a lot of respect for those who made their living on as little as a quarter section of grazing land.
Much more useable form factor than a Leaf. A city daily beater car means no worries. Fits in tight spaces, but hatch back with fold down rear seats means you can haul "stuff". And not much depreciation downside. Extremely low cost of ownership! Enjoy
I had a brand new 2019 Kia Soul EV, and on Petro Canada 200kw chargers, it would take 69kw to about 55%, then taller of, actually top it on two 2000km road trips. We bought a 2020 Kia Soul EV (64kwh) limited, trade the 2019 with about 28K Km for the Ioniq 5. Only problem with the 2019 Soul EV is unlike the 2018 model, you could not set the maximum charge limit, so I had to use a Juicebox and set it to 80%.
I would assume with that many miles it was probably dc fast charged a lot. I wonder if the suggested rebalance of battery utilizing the 110 charge from zero a few times would change your results? I have a 2015 SEL with 50k miles and 99% ac charged and still has very low degradation.
You mentioned after market batteries, does anyone make a bigger battery you can put in?
Hi Kyle you said that the net Capacity when new was 20 kw/h but when you look at original VW information data when the car was released in Europe the mentioned in the self study program 21.2 km/h even Bjorn just released a new video on testing a 2016 BMW i3 and he said 21 kw/h and he also said the i3 had a bit smaller battery capacity compared to the small battery e Golf anyway I love the testing I have a US spec e Golf and I love it .
kWh, not kW/h. Otherwise you are right.
I can’t wait until you do this with your R1T
You do you, but I like the factory wheels a lot more. Unique to the eGolf and very efficient.
The traction battery definitely looks out of balance. If you have some weak cells though it will balance at the top but quickly go out of balance on the next discharge / charge. Can you read the individual cell voltages at the top and while you're driving? If you have a neglible cell differential at the top but much larger as soon as you put it under load then you've got problematic module/s. The question is can you make 40 miles work for you as a daily driver?
is the seat heating at max? would that have a larger % impact on a small battery like that?
Hello, what applications did I use to check the degradation and is a special CAN interface needed to connect to the car? Regards
By the way, VW windshield washing fluid plastic container is notorious to crack without any accident just with very cold and very hot weather even without using simple water instead of proper fluid which can crack it in the winter irrespectively of ICE or EV version.
It just needs replacement.
The 12 V battery needs replacement as well.