Andy is the reason i wanted to buy a tesla. I bought it back in 2020, 1 year after purchasing my tesla i was in a car accident and i truly think Tesla saved my life. when firefighter paramedics came to check on me they told me that if the car wasn't as bottom heavy as it was i would have most likely rolled. i came out of the accident with a totaled car and no injuries other than a mild concussion, bumps, bruises and scratches. Thank you Tesla for making the safest rated car in the world.
That's funny...a car without a glass roof rolled down a cliff and the people didn't even need emergency services to get out. And it was a Hyundai Elantra. Better results regardless of ending position...one third the cost.
@CozmicTaco Agree as it's a quality vehicle. But then again, neither is a Tesla. Same lower build quality, but the Hyundai is 1/3 as much money. And is less reliant on software.
The issue is the sudden deaths definitely happen and unlike a car I can't go grab a used one for 1500$ and drop it in the car is just a toatal loss at that point
Fantastic video! I would imagine that 7% is the amount of degradation, meaning you've lost 7% of battery life, which would align with what you are seeing on the Recurrent page or a close approximation at least (310 - 7%= 288.3). On a side note, it's mind-blowing how well it's holding up. I don't drive nearly as much, so I can only imagine that in cases like mine, the battery could possibly last 10 years easily. In my current car, I only have 13K miles after 2 years of ownership, and I don't see it getting over 30K before I sell it. It makes me wonder if manufacturers should all start valuing EVs, based on battery health and not just mileage, similar to what Recurrent is doing. It only makes sense to do so in a car that has very few wear items on it. The old system made sense because engines had only a certain life before they started giving issues, but now, it doesn't make sense to keep the current system for EVs.
@@Slider_84 Yeah, I mostly only drive to and from work, pickup the kids from school, occasional Costco runs, and once in a while a short vacation trip. Daily though I only drive about 30 or so miles.
It also seemed to me that the 93 range score may mean that you have lost only 7% of charging capacity. I suggest you check with Tesla and use the info to publish a follow up video.
Mileage is not the concern. Calendar time is the big issue. I've had various battery chemistries in various plug-in hybrid models. The company I worked for had a fleet of hybrids. Pretty consistently, at around year 10, regardless of mileage or battery chemistry, batteries start failing.
@@genisphyla Consumer Reports and Edmunds tell a vastly different story vs. this video and these comments. Further, the recent Chicago area cold temps showed the world what really happens with EVs in cold weather. The "range" numbers drop unbelievably. Nope...I think I'll take Consumer Reports & Edmund's word and stick to my Toyota ICE with a battery that I can buy at O'Reilly's and install myself without spending 20 or 30 grand. Or tires that wear prematurely and cost 2 grand to replace.
This is why the Service mode is for professionals and not for everyone. As others already said, the 7% is the number of the battery degradation in the case of your LR. Being that the range number seen at 100% isn’t a number based on past driving history but on a BMS algorithm computation, the degradation of the battery can’t be determined easily by owners. Especially in cases when people use their car only for driving 30-40 miles a day. In those cases the range number is fluctuating because the BMS can’t read the max and the min voltage of the battery pack. So drive once in a while your battery from 100% to 3-5% SOC in a single run (no stop) to help the BMS to relearn the real Min and max cells voltage on your pack.
Or people could just be taught or the instructions could be clear. It says battery health 7/%. Not battery drag ruin 7%. So it's unclear and y'all tryna get on dude like it's funny.
"They" on purpose use confuscating language in order to maintain the monopoly of repair and knowledge over the car. They could easily described the item in normal understandable language like "Total battery degradation on this battery since you received it new". That would do it and any child would understand it instead of this lawyer yibberish not even the judge understands lest the jury which normally has no clue whats going on and thus relies completely on emotions. Put that description in clear language and then no "professional" is needed to read a simple book.
The battery replacement is about $20,000. Car isn’t worth half that at this point. That’s why buying them used is buyer beware because, even on a test drive, you have no real idea of the condition of the battery.
So, for a buyer to consider buying a high mileage Electric car, it must be cheap, because I know that I will have to plan to service the battery in the near future!
@@adam060577 No - it 100% is NOT - that's a fact, I'm not guessing. Does that mean my 4 month old car - which reads 100% on that test is 100% unhealthy ? You're a clown. Check the 100's of other videos showing results in the 80% plus range for same car - and keep dreaming about owning a Tesla!
I'm about to surpass 100k miles on my 2018 and my range loss from 310 miles is down to around 294 to 297. I have ran my car to less than 10% several times and range charge on road trips and about once every 6 to 8 weeks. Recently discovered that charging to various percentages maintains the most accurate on screen readings. So some times 70% 80% but the majority of my charging ends up at 90%. In 2021 it was only charging to 283-285 for the whole summer and then increased by the end of the year and there has been no drop in my range since then. It's all relative 😁
Out of Spec Reviews got the same puzzling result, and he charges only to 50-70% at home. Like others have suggested, it’s more likely the 7% is your battery degradation. Your current range estimates are consistent with 7% degradation.
All these maths don't mean anything until you actually go through the ownership cycle. Most people won't experience any of it as they change cars on average 3-5 years. It really applied to those that keeps their vehicles 10 years or more, which is me. I am not against EVs in general but not for it either. I think there's better alternative, and still waiting for more options. But it's definitely makes for a good dinner table discussion.
That doesn't make sense at all. iPhones also have battery healthy which counts down from 100%. 7% does really mean it is reaching end of it's life but how do you define end of life? That's defined by Tesla. The battery may well perform 70% capacity after 200K miles.
@@user-fx5sw4jy7hYz9Hzi In my mind, it makes sense. It seems to me that their intention is giving a percentage to the range you can expect at a full charge. If the range when brand new is 310 miles at 100%, and then you subtract this 7% figure, you end up at 288.3 miles of range when charged to 100%. So in essence, you've lost 7% of range when at 100% full charge. Which aligns with both what the screen on the Tesla says and what the Recurrent website shows.
@@ProXcaliberI did the rudimentary math after charging my 2019 M3P to 100%. It showed 285 miles. Based on a starting point of 310 miles that’s 8% degradation. Not as entailed as the service mode option performed here but seems to correlate.
@@mrh3085 Then you would be correct! The only other way to get a more concrete answer is to take it to Tesla directly and have them do a full service of the battery.
I would recalibrate my BMS first. You can do this by depleting your battery to a percentage lower than 10%, leave it there for at least an hour, and then charge it up to 100% until the charger stops adding energy to the battery. Then go for a drive to bring it back down to your normal 80-90%. You may need to do this a couple of times. I'm getting pretty close to that 120k milestone too. I do have a Cybertruck reserved, so I need to make a decision to either keep both vehicles or sell the Model 3 that's out of warranty by then. Tough call...I really love my Model 3!
I have a performance at 140,000kms. I spent 3 months last year travelling in the car using superchargers. When I did the test, I got 86%. I am keeping it until it's dead. But I think a important thing to keep in mind is the battery pack price is going down. With faster and better manufacturing and improvements in scale. That price is dropping like the price to buy the car new.
Tesla has honestly reach their economy of scale and by the time you're replacing it I doubt they will use the same battery technology. You'll probably be using refurbished batteries that people combine good cells with.
@@davidbeppler3032there are no special tools needed to run the battery health test. When out of spec got a similar result as Andy, Kyle contacted Tesla service who confirmed there's a bug in the system that was causing incorrect battery health test results.
@@LuckyAeon It depends on where you are. Gruber Motors in the US. In europe a number of 3rd party service partners by EVhub in Norway. Much cheaper than Tesla.
And for lower volume cars with proprietary packs that are not Tesla? Gonna be some unhappy owners at some point when warranties start ending on a lot of the BEVs sold in the last couple years in the US.
I think the sweet spot for charging is 90 percent everyone says 80 but when I bought my 23 model y long range it was draining the battery fast after I started charging at 90 percent it fixed all the problems and the car responds 100 percent better
@@scorchedearth1451 You need your phone to lie to you about it’s actually battery capacity? You can set your Tesla to charge at whatever % you want, but it won’t lie to you & tell you a 80% charged battery is 100% charged. A car lying to you about it’s fuel percentage puts you at risk of being stranded.
I have done approx 20k miles on a 2022 Model Y LR in 8 months. I plan on keeping it until I can no longer drive. (I am on my lay 50s now). Will replay the battery as needed. So I would say keep it….
I don’t think you have much to worry about, we live near Vancouver Canada which is a magnet for thousands of TESLA’s (there are five on our street alone) of various models primarily 3’s and Y’s even saw a PLAID the other day. Considering the S has been around for over ten years I have never heard of a battery or electric motor failure in a S or any other TESLA for that matter.
Weighing the cost of battery replacement against the cost of a new car might lead one to just go with a new battery and save 30K on a new car purchase. However, I personally would be concerned about the drive assembly and the rest of the car's systems after more than a decade on the road. All these concerns have lead me to be skeptical about buying a used EV but you have at least shown that the battery question is less of a concern than I imagined, at least for a used Tesla.
@tiloalo your right all of the people complaining about their ev batteries aren't about degradation but of sudden failure not under warranty. People like to overlook this and argue they can go for 300,000 miles. Also another issue with Ev batteries are they can spontaneously catch fire and take hours to put out as they keep catching on fire over and over and over
@@alexnutcasio936 Did you even watch the video? The Recurrent app gave him a range score of 93, and his admittedly not too accurate "charge up and drive down" calculations came in at "around 90%". Certainly, all these would be in acceptable margins of error if, indeed. the "7" in question meant the amount of degradation that had taken place.
In regards to your concerns about the battery health of 7% I am wondering whether the display is correct but sort of inversed. You have a range score of 93 (%?) yet a battery health of 7% (add both figures and get 100). Could it actually be that the battery has only degraded 7%, ie 93% healthy? I hope you find the answer.
Battery capacity is not the only measure of battery health and some of the warnings and failure reports are hidden from the owners by tesla. In one reported incident, the owner used the diagnostic program to check on the battery and it warned him an error in one of the battery modules. Tesla fixed the problem by having the diagnostic program stop reporting the problem.
Renault has addressed this issue by offering to lease the battery instead of owning it. It is like a permanent warranty, or an insurance, at a monthly cost. Right now it’s about $74 per month. Less than one gas fill up (~$8+ per gallon in Europe).
hm this insurance has the potential to go very wrong imagine your tesla battery dies on its last year of warranty you will get a new one for free meaning you would have payed 7200$ of insurance with the renault for nothing
If youre concerned about battery degradation, just buy the LR model. Even with the off chance that down the line it has 30%-40% degradation, it should still have plenty of range for the everyday drive.
Actually, if daily driving is the concern, it's as good or better to buy the standard range, which is recommended to be charged to 100%, which gives as much range as a long range charged to 80%, and twice the expected cycle life, due to its lithium iron phosphate battery.
@@bearcubdaycare That has not been proven. Most of the highest mileage Model 3 recorded are actually LR not LFP batteries per reports shown in the Electric Viking channel.
At 10 years I had 105,000 miles on my model S. Battery failed, 16,000 dollars later, and I have less range than the first battery, I can’t recommend buying the replacement battery , it’s junk
I only have 78k miles on mine and I’m just amazed at the quality of the drivetrain. My previous Subaru forester XT at 50k miles, the engine was already making ticking noises so I made the decision to trade it in while it was still worth something. 😂
Subarus make ticking noises when new because of direct injection system. It’s normal and not a sign of an issue. Not saying Subarus are the best cars out there. Just letting you know that it was fine.
As stated below, your 7% doesn't sound bad at all. My 2018 Model 3 RWD LR is about at the same state. Also bear in mind that based on my Michigan experience battery SOC is extremally temperature dependent. I drive a 100 mile route almost weekly in temperature ranges from -7 to 100 F at a nearly constant speed of 60 MPH. At 75F the range estimate is nearly perfect, at times during a morning drive gong from a crisp to warm morning, I have even experienced range increase! As you state, it is mostly about battery chemistry. and most 3s and Ys have the 21700 battery. That being said, your original 310 miles of range is the benchmark of a brand new battery pack and you can expect a 3-4% drop as the battery "settles in" over the first year or two. Then expect a 1-2% drop over the next several years. Depending on your charging habits, that drop off should somewhat flatten if you only use supercharging sparingly and generally keep your charging cycle to 20 to 80% (roughly 60 to 250 miles range) at level 2 charging. Then I would expect the battery to be serviceable for another 10 to 20 years. Some "tricks" to long battery life; charge as soon as you can if below 40% and try not to leave the car sitting with a low battery, that is the worst. Only charge to 100% occasionally when you know you will want the the extra miles right away. Long term sitting (I define as over 2 weeks), best if you can leave it plugged in at level 1 or 2 and set the charge to 50 to 60% If you need to let it sit without being plugged in long term, I would try to leave it around 70% and leave things like security monitoring off and resist the temptation to keep checking the phone app. This allows it to go into "deep sleep" and will minimize "phantom drain". Anyone with and comments, suggestions or experience please do so.
What you said is most impressive, but its also total speculation. Objectively, we don't know how much and to what level to charge to as Tesla has often changed their guidance over the years (just ask Like Tesla Kim). Even Toyota can not agree on that level to charge their Prime vehicles, but they do know what they charge their hybrids to and its typically between 20-80%. Given that, we're speculating that 20-80 is the perfect range for a Tesla battery buy no one knows ( since at least 2018 models) how long a Model 3 or Y battery (2020) will go before needing replacement. In fact, we're just getting the Model S and X indicators now and the S clearly shows that after a few years (define a few) that the S battery from the S 75 or the S60 now need replacement, so they are essentially paperweights at this point since replacement exceeds fair market value of vehicle. Basically, its all anecdotal and supposition at this point. Tesla insists that supercharging is not bad for a battery, but many claim or believe otherwise. So, we don't know what we don't know.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. The only thing I do (bc of commute daily) is charge to 90%. Off days, 20% to 70% or 80%. 2170 cells are like magic rocks. The chemistry with these batteries are awesome. Let’s hope the 4680’s do well in project highland. 🤷🏽
@@alexnutcasio936 depends so much on the type of battery. Our ModY uses LFP (HV)and Li-ion for the low voltage. So charging regularly to 100% is the preferred method. Since the individual battery’s voltage range is much narrower than Li-ion so less mechanical and chemical change/wear. LFP batteries should hold their SOH and range much longer than Li-ion.
@@alexnutcasio936 How can you compare the batteries from Model S from 2014 laptops to the EV batteries in 2020 Model 3/Y? They are different chemistry, form factor, quality control, battery management, cooling, and charging. I expect my TM3LR to last more than 20 years and a million miles. Just based on battery degradation statistics. We have the math.
This reminds me of the time I went to a health portal and misread test results to mean I had cancer. Feels great when you find out from a professional that you are wrong.
At work we just put a $6,000 transmission in a 2022 f150 with 7,500 miles on it because Ford would not repair it under warranty. I’ll take my chances with my 2019 model 3 currently at 86,000 miles.
While I agree with most, it could be 7% battery degradation. I did notice your battery was at 18% when you started the test. If the test works off of watt hours discharged vs watts charged, you would have to start with a fully charged battery. Otherwise the computer thinks 18% was fully charged, giving you a battery at the end of it's life.
I own a 2021 Model 3 SR+, with 31,000 miles on it thus far. Here’s my take on this non-issue: IF my car needs a new battery pack (and that’s a gigantic IF) and it’s out of warranty, I’ll get a new pack. Far cheaper than getting a new car (average new car price is $45,000 now). The Tesla is reliable, and it gets OTA updates which keeps it current and fresh. A new battery pack would let me keep driving my fun, cheap, and easy to live with Tesla? That’s an easy choice for me!
So, if I am reading you correctly, you're willing to spend (lets say $14,000) for a new SR battery in 6 years when your car has a value of $15,000? Sure , makes sense to me , LOL.
@@alexnutcasio936 Battery costs keep falling and technology keeps improving, In 6 years time they probably won’t cost 14K,and there will likely be even more service shops out there who will fix rather than replace the battery. 6 years is a long time so highly doubtful things will be the same/cost the same as today. That’s the metric I’ve used when ordering our Model 3. 8 year 192000 km warranty, we drive 15000 km per year so I’m happy with that. We plan on keeping ours for 10 years.
@@alexnutcasio936 like I said, batteries will be alot cheaper by then so who cares? 10 years is a very long way away. Plenty of ICE cars needing expensive engine and or transmission repairs at that age and even younger. How many of them have 8 year 192000 km warranties? The stories of ICE car owners having very expensive repair bills just out of warranty are plentiful. There are model 3 owners whose vehicles have done 100k miles and even some 200k miles, no battery replacement necessary.
@@gbw28 haven’t seen a single Model 3 anywhere with 200k miles. It’s not unusual for a modern ICE engine to go 200k miles without any major issues and if it’s a diesel, 400-500k miles is not unheard of . P,Ys, a new JCE engine is more like $3-5$k, not $25k for a battery. The cost advantage is still with the ice long term.
True, and a difference is the number of systems that can go wrong with an old ICE vehicle. Even with a engine and/or a tranny replacement, there's still the exhaust system and the cooling system (replace radiator), belts and hoses. With an EV there's just the battery and the motor; and supposedly the motors are million mile motors. Tires and steering is common to both ICE and EV. So with an EV, for approx 15k battery replacement you can get pretty much a new car. (corrosion is probably the biggest limiting factor).
Supercharging is the weakness of these batteries, increased cell death and reduced cycle life. They should add something like a warranty limitation for Supercharging then add more warranty for age and mileage. LFP batteries appears to be more robust and would like to finally see it in the Model Y
not true. Actual statistical analysis of real cars shows no statistical difference between cars mostly supercharged vs. cars that seldom supercharged. Why? Probably because the BMS ensures that heat is kept within reasonable levels in either case. The rate of charge when heat is kept within reasonable range is also theoretically not relevant in actual research at Stanford so we have two clear pieces of evidence that Supercharging is not degrading packs
@@climatenomad It's because Tesla replaces these packs under warranty, citing it as manufacturing defect. Many packs that are used for ride hailing consistently failed or lose modules or drop to half the range under frequent Supercharging. Whereas the expected effect is gradual loss of maximum range. I've heard many high mileage Teslas that did not have any issue with their battery packs that seldom SUpercharge
It could be 7% loss, and I hope it is. But could also be increased internal resistance, which doesn’t directly affect capacity though they happen simultaneously. Internal resistance affects amps hence watts. Is acceleration reduced?
Best view is its either a glitch or needing some other way to interpret result. Very reassuring video either way Andy for so many concerned about the battery life.
my 2015 model S with 126k miles just die :/ that's how I got to this video. It is funny that it went out at 126K miles and the warranty covers until 125K 🙃
Nobody likes to buy a ICE car with generally over 100k let alone 200k you can forget it. Mileage doesn’t mean anything in the EV world - it’s batter health that is more important
@@MichaelMillerJ Running a cruze with 249K on it. Manual trans. It gets 175 miles a day most time. Turbo too. NOT a yard ornament. I cant even get a car into my yard!
I've had two batteries fail in my 21 Model 3 Performance. One day it says, unable to charge contact service. Both have been under warranty, so I looked up how much a used battery is just in case the day comes when I need a replacement on my dime. Searching on car-part, there are multiple batteries for sale for $3000.00. I would consider this similar to needing a new motor in an ICE car. You can also balance the battery and re-run the battery health test.
Did you do a follow-up on this to get a Tesla interpretation of what "7%" is supposed to mean? What about the other data provided by doing the test, what does it mean? Would you consider running the test on her/your Model Y for comparison?
My 2020 Model S has lost 1% range after 80,000 miles driven. There are three issues that adversely impact battery life: 1. Times supercharged 2. Times charged to 100% or Times driven to 10% (or less) 3. Times you do 0-60 launches in performance vehicles. If you take care of your batteries they will last hundreds of thousands of miles.
No, they won't... nobody had to replace a battery due to degradation. It's always something else that fails (electronic, a single cell failing, ...). And that can happen anytime. Just see how many used Tesla S are on sale with a replaced battery pack way before reaching 200k moles.
@Axethales from what I saw it's also very often the BMS that fails or water ingress that causes issues. And it also doesn't seems related to supercharging or abuse
My brother in law had a transmission go out on his 2014 minivan with 80,000 miles. The replacement cost is 8200 not counting the issues that had preceded it cost wise.
I have seen some cars that said their battery was fine until a day or two before it dies. Where I live you have to reveal a known issue - so if you know the battery is at 7% you have to say that when selling or face a lawsuit.
For the record, Li-Ion battery chemistry is the same wherever that type of battery is used. So yes, Tesla batteries are exactly the same as the one used for a trolling motor, cell phone, laptop... The only difference is a cooling system which as you pointed out is better managed in cars than in cell phones :) Your battery health check results are therefore mostly accurate. Maybe not exact, but close enough for you to start worrying.
Not true. While the basic chemistry is the same, there are a lot of variable in manufacturing the battery from purity of elements, assembly environment, percent (recipe) of elements and the small percent of other elements added to the particular battery.
@@ohger1 All Li-Ion batteries are identical in the way they operate because they share the same internals. Purity of materials may make a slight difference in longevity but not a huge one. Most batteries are made by only a handful of manufacturers so variances are small. I'm talking about known brands like Samsung, LG, Panasonic and similar, not something obscure.
@@Steelologist The only thing identical about all lithium ion batteries is the voltage per cell. No two battery companies use the exact same chemistry (we'll ignore the exact manufacturing process here), and indeed, various chemistry patents defend that argument. A company like Samsung (for instance) makes all kinds of cells, from garbage pouch batteries for phones or cylindrical cells for laptops that they design to last a handful of years to high quality cells with different chemistry and different production techniques. Even taking battery electrical and thermal management off the table, cells used in EVs are not analogous to phone and laptop cells.
@@ohger1 Correct. Lithium ion cells are often dramatically different between manufacturers and even a manufacturer's own product lines. Just recently we've run across counterfeit lithium ion batteries that one of our buyers acquired on sample. They don't deliver rated AH and they don't last anywhere near as many cycles as quality producers - but they're still lithium ion.
If Tesla believed that their battery is good for 10 or more years, then it would offer that warranty. The fact that they don't, proves that their lying when suggesting that it should be good and you asking customer to "trust" a multibillion, multinational company makes you a horrible person.
Congratulations on reaching such an impressive milestone with your 2018 Tesla Model 3! With a range score of 93 and only a 10% degradation after 120,000 miles, it's understandable why you're inclined to continue driving your Model 3 confidently. For me I'd still drive it but will continue to monitor battery health closely while adhering to best charging practices. Hope that in the future they have a charging limiter for these.
Great info, early cars like my Nissan leaf 2012 had no thermal management aka cooling so they degraded a lot quicker only have 30mi range on my leaf it's over 10 years old I'm considering dismantling the pack identifying bad modules and changing them out
Thats the problem with the Leaf. Much as I am not a Tesla fanboi, the battery management is very good when it comes to thermal management. As for rebuilding the battery pack, I would suggest it is a fraught exercise because you will be chasing your tail with other cells dying weeks or days after you rebuilt it. Not to mention the hazards of dealing with a high voltage battery pack and trying to match the new cells with old cells so they are compatible with the charging system. A good way to burn your car if the new cells don't like being charged as much or they keep the charging going longer on the old cells. A lot of DIY home battery and DIY scooter builds show a bad history.
You are going to learn something painful. By 10 years, your car will be worth exactly $0.00. Why? Because by the time you sell your car, the world will be very aware that 10 years is the real expected life of the battery. Battery replacements and repairs will not get cheaper. You will be asked how old is your battery, and at 10 years old, it's considered a scrap car. Mark my words, you will lose whatever savings you think you were going to get owning a Tesla. It will be a complete money pit for you by the time you reach 10 years.
@@bn880 Even Franz said 10 years on Leno's Garage. He's literally Mr Tesla. Why wouldn't any fanboys listen to Mr Tesla when he tells them they and the environment are screwed with expensive and environmentally bad battery replacements? You can google so many battery experts telling you the same thing. Expect 10 years. You might get 15, but do you feel that lucky? If so, bet all your money on #16 in Roulette, because your odds are about the same.
What we should be concerned is BMS imbalance… not degradation, degradation has been proven not to be a significant issue with electric cars. The most common cause of battery failure is cell imbalance. That’s the concerning part of owning an Ev outside warranty and the main thing keeping me from buying an EV outside US, Asia and Europe. I want to buy an EV and send it to the Caribbean but battery cell imbalance has me worried
OMG what timing, TY! This is EXACTLY what I've been researching over the past 2 days. This has been my biggest fear and the reason I haven't bought a model Y yet.
Its a valid concern and a REAL fear. WHY? Because no one KNOWS insofar as the 3 and Y are concerned. We do know that batteries can and WILL degrade over time and use. We just don't know the hard numbers. The forums are replete with references to the original S batteries from 2012 and on and its not looking good long term. Many have been replaced or the car sold or traded due to degradation and loss of range.
@@JMC-ul1sw so you recommend? Thinking of getting a model Y long range, but the videos I watch are 50/50 been asking around in the comments, I’m so indecisive
I have a coworker who has 160K miles on his 2018 LR model 3. He dropped 20% of his range in the first 100K miles and now his battery shows < 40 miles of range. Service center manager told him, "You drove over 150K miles, what did you think would happen?" - it wasn't a $15K bill.
I would definitely keep it! I've been driving my 2014 Nissan Leaf for 9 years and logged 94,000 miles and lost 40% of my battery capacity so far! That's probably because Nissan used older generation lithium batteries back then. So the fact you only lost 10% after driving 120,000 miles is very impressive! Unless you need to take frequent trips of over 250 miles per day I don't see why you would need to replace the batteries or car and spend 16k+. Even with my Leaf's meager 75 miles range, I can still perform 99% of my daily tasks because most of my daily activities are within 15 miles away from me.
Get rid of the leaf. The leaf have old battery tech. Lfp that the current model 3 use are the newer battery tech that people use for solar home. They have claims of lasting 10 plus years and 2000 plus charge cycle.
@@brucey5585 So you think he should get rid of his FREE car that meets 99% of his driving needs to buy a $40,000 new EV? That's not a solid plan to meet one's future retirement goals 😂
120,000 miles on a 40 mpg car is 3000 gallons, at say, $4/gallon that's $12,000 in savings. Plus not doing 40 oil changes (say $30 each) $1200. Let's say at least 2 brake changes (and no mechanic in the world just does brake changes, they always tell you you need a new rotor) add another $500. We're up to $13,700 towards a $20,000 battery if that ever fails.
Awesome video to kick off Derby week- great job! the next gneration of lithium iron phosphate batteries will do even better than this. Imagine 2800 charge cycles at 250 miles per cycle = 700,000 miles?! With proper care and feeding, that means you only need to purchase 2 vehicles in your LIFETIME. In all honesty, EV are much cheaper for the full life cycle- the biggest enemy is winter road salt and corrosion. The battery is not the issue.
In Michigan, I calculated 3 years ago that my ICE car cost me 10c per mile and my EV cost me 5c per mile to drive in gas/electicity. This has probably changed but since both gas and electricity went up it is still probably a good comparison. On my EV I also pay an additional $140 for registration to cover taxes that I do not pay on gas. So, to run my ICE car 15000 miles a year it cost me $1500 in gas. The EV cost me $890 to go the same miles. However, my EV cost $43,000 versus a similar sized ICE car that would have cost me about $10k less. This means on purely gas savings I would take 16 years to break even. I got the EV because I love how they drive, I love charging at home and having a full tank every morning. But these are not the answer unless battery tech takes at least a 4 fold leap in range and 4 fold reduction in charging times. And we still need to solve the pollution that making just the battery for the EV causes.
You (we) also aren't paying for oil changes X4 every year, transmission service every 35K, and twice times or more brake jobs. We also don't need to worry about things like timing belts/water pumps, plugs, coils, etc. Although if you drive like me, the tires on an EV last about 80% as long as on a car with half the power.
you said how much you saved by not buying gas and oil etc. You never mentioned how much it costs to keep that vehicle charged for that period. electricity is not free.....just like lunch.
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Long Range - Single Motor - 5 years - 101,000 miles Have been charging for 5 years at the Super Chargers (Free). 2018 - 310 miles / 2023 - 295 miles - Still at 95%. Keeping my fingers crossed. Thanks for the Video
Another thing to keep in mind is that even if a battery degrades or has a bad module, it is still worth a lot of money. So just like replacing an engine in a gas car, with the bad engine being sold and rebuilt, so can a battery pack. Especially with a rise in EV battery recycling, a consumer would be able to make up a lot of the cost of a new battery by selling the old battery. This help offset the total cost of a new replacement if it happens outside of the warranty period. Tesla also launched its extended warranty which may also help ease some worrying. Realistically, if you aren’t strictly supercharging and follow Tesla’s recommended charging guidance you won’t have to worry.
This isn't all true. My 2013 was operating fine, but my car went to sleep and I has to take it to Tesla to wake it up and when the vehicle was returned... my battery was limited to 90 miles maximum. Out of warranty and the want to charge me $20k and no... there's no recycling discounts.
@@jamesstarks3676 Correct, it's absolute garbage. It's worth money to the recyclers, just like any scrap, but not to the owners, it's just another big repair bill.
@@tiloalo the packs are warrantied 10 years/ 100k miles. Yes people will buy it because it’s worth a lot to recycle or to just replace the modules and resell it. These batteries don’t go bad very often. You always see worst case scenarios all over the internet and most of them are BS.
Mine in S suddenly went to 11% @ 260.000mls. But it was not reality. It took $4000 to replace a few faulty cells and regenerate it. It is back to 96%, now @ 285.000mls. I think that the major problem is that a vast majority do not see outside of Tesla service network. There's a network of independent Tesla servicers now, and they know about them. There is a lot of inside knowledge, and a lot can be rebuilt, it's electronics.
Toyota, Škoda diesels one 13 years old the other 15 years old with over 300,000 miles each on the clock, and both cars still running fine, using no oil between changes, and the fuel consumption being pretty much the same as when they were new. Should your Tesla manage to achieve a similar age and mileage, I wonder what state the battery would be in. The other thing that I would find interesting would be, how a Tesla with say 200,000 miles or so on the clock sell on? Used car dealers here in the UK seem reluctant to take in part exchange high mileage EVs........
I was interested in a used, early Tesla Model S for $15,000. However, two things stopped me from becoming an EV owner. One was the $400 per month insurance, more than what I pay for both insurance and my current ICE car payment. The other was the fear of what it would cost if I needed to replace anything, including the battery.
@@mrnarason You are right, I shouldn't expect an older luxury car to be cheap anymore. It's not like back in the day that different cars were just rebranded as different models with a few more add-ons. Remember when you could swap a Chevy engine into any GMC, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, or Corvette? I was really hoping to get an EV as my next vehicle. In my state I could get a Chevy Bolt for as little as $14,000 if I owed enough taxes at the end of the year. Sadly I can't make it happen and the Bolt is therefore pushed out of my budget. However, now I'm kind of glad I can't get one seeing how on Transport Evolved it cost $3,000 just to fix the A/C on a Bolt. So I guess no EV for me for a long while.
Glad to hear, presume the 7% is not bad. I dont drive much per year, and worry i would be wasting the car by letting it sit so much. The opposite of this, but still a concern: constant maintenance charging..what could go wrong? And Michael jorden is a dated example my man, though I did get the analogy!
Probably make it last longer , the less you drive the longer between your charging cycles , your battery could last forever if your charger cycles are far and few between Jay Leno owns a 1905 Baker electric , still runs today and only had batteries replaced once or twice in 100 years
Interesting! My brother in law has the same car you have with less than half the mileage to date. On a recent visit, we departed his home with a full charge, drove about 100 miles away on a 45 degree spring day, mostly expressway driving, and returned home later that day after sunset. I was surprised that the car needed a brief (10-15 minute) charge on the way home, based on projected range remaining. The nearest charge point available is 35 miles from their home, so there was no plan B option. B in L was not surprised. I understand that cabin heat can use a lot of range, but this was not a cold winter day. I would be disapointed if I could not complete a 200 mile "real world" trip on a spring day without charging.
@@davidbeppler3032 No... actually, I want a car I can drive 1000 miles on two 10 minute fuel stops... like my ten year old Honda Accord. Sure am glad it will run for another ten years and 125K miles. Not interested in a $70,000 car that requires me to accomodate its short comings.
@@billyjoejimbob56 : The crucial short-coming of your old Honda Accord is that it uses gasoline ! which must be pumped out of oil wells ! Those oil wells will be depleted in a couple of decades ! And it will take nature billions of years to replenish them ( out of dead bodies of creatures which are alive at this time !)
That's the cold hard truth of EV's at least at this point. If you plan on taking long trips over 5 hours you might as well buy and ICE vehicle. I've heard all kinds of fantastic claims about the range of EV's like the Model 3, but i know several people with them and they barely get 200 miles on a single charge. The battery technology just hasn't advanced far enough yet. I'll wait. I'm not gonna spend 38k on an electric car when it's a wash when you consider your electricity bills, limited range, etc. Just not worth it.
@@billyjoejimbob56 Exactly this. My car has the exact same range it had when it was built 14 years ago, I don't need to worry about charging it before I set off as I can get fuel just about anywhere. I don't have to plan my journey, need to follow a route on a screen, worry about chargers not working or people queuing to use them, for the same reason. When I do stop to fill up, usually after 400+ miles, I'm on my way again in 5 minutes. And anybody paying more than £500 or so a year for their leased car is already paying more than I paid to buy the car outright, in cash, zero % interest and will never make up the deficit in fuel savings. I'm speaking from the point of view of a UK resident but this isn't knocking EVs, it's quite simply the reality of buying (leasing) and running one.
I've had significantly worse experience. My 2018 Model 3 Dual Motor has 81.6k miles and is down to 266 miles of rated range (86% of new) according to the BMS. I do regularly supercharge for work trips (20% of my charging over the last year). I often also run the car down to low SOC in the process to minimize time on the road/ charge time. That said I'm surprised that amount of supercharging makes such a large difference- if my degradation continues linearly I'll have lost twice over the battery capacity of Andy 120k miles and I'll be at 79%.
@@JMC-ul1sw Yes but that’s misleading. If I’m stretching to make the next supercharger and I arrive with low charge pre-conditioning often doesn’t start until a few mikes before I pull in.
I’ve had the same experience with my 2018 M3P - 268 miles of range estimated on the TeslaFi battery health test. I rarely charge at SCs (it was 5 months before my first SC charge); just charge at home with WC. I have varied the limit over time, between 80% and 90% (80% for the past two years), and have it plugged in in my garage almost always. So perhaps the 90% charges early on were partly responsible, even though Tesla (& Elon) officially said 90% was OK.
I’d always charge above 30%, use navigate to so it’s preconditioned. Never to 100% idle overnight or longer. Drive to below 75%. Chemical degradation greatest when sitting at 100% on a hot day.
After 26 months of operation, my MYLR has 72K km (roughly 44K miles). There have been 5 long road trips (Toronto to Orlando) and more are planned. I’m interested to do the test on my own car, but I’m a bit fearful of just what I might find…
Queensland Australia. I have 2019 Model 3 standard range, now 110 000 KM started with 340 km range, now 320 km range. Using power from my solar panels and home battery. 5 years only cost 4 new tyres (plus ins. rego etc) Twice had to steal some air from a petrol station.
A neighbour in my mother's complex has an out-of-warranty battery failure, with a quote from Tesla for Can$22,000 to get it back on the road. Common or not, all EV batteries will eventually fail. Hopefully one day it will be practical to locally repair and refurbish the battery packs to bring these costs down.
Apparently the cost here in the UK to replace the battery is around £5-6k, which seems very reasonable to say you'll get another several 100k miles out of your car again.
My P85D battery pack failed 20 days after warranty expired, 10 days after I bought it from a dealer, and the same morning I has a service center appointment with an unrelated issue… Dealer wanted to replace module(s) for 4K but would not honor implied warranty of merchantability in my state to replace full battery. It has been a 4 month long nightmare, to say the least. I would rather have the battery replaced, but I fear the other components will also need attention with 100k and 8 years old. So, I bought a new Model 3, but regret it because supercharging is a lot more expensive than I anticipated and is equal to the new car payment.
The big battery on my 2019 model X died a few months ago, thankfully it was under warranty. My initial warranty is up in September and I’m trying to decide if I should buy the extended warranty? Does anyone have thoughts on it?
Unfortunately, the extended warranty is separate from the battery and does not extend the battery warranty beyond the original mileage. As a result, I don’t think purchasing the extended warranty would give you the additional coverage you were implying you wanted. Personally, I was confused why Tesla even created an extended warranty that did not include the battery.
@@bwolf8099 I prefer the big screen on my X so I’m leaning towards keeping it. I’m contemplating the warranty to cover the other features like falcon wing doors. I don’t like that there is the $200 deductible.
It would interesting to access each battery cell voltage. May be you need to do a full charge-discharge to have the BMS balancing the battery. You should try an OBd2 scan tool such as Scan My Tesla. It provides Battery degradation information and Cells voltage.
batteries produce constant power right up to the fail point where they basically die. I would like to hear Tesla's explanation of what that health level tells you.
I just rented a Model 3 this past weekend. It was a nice car with outstanding power, but I burned thru 40% of battery life (77% to 37%) by driving only 75 miles. With a full charge, that would only equate to less than 190 miles.
The value of a 100k miles 2020 model 3 here in the uk is around 14k. if the battery goes you aint replacing it. Your just going to part the car out and be done with it. These are not cars that should be repaired. They should be recycled or scrapped once they battery life goes bad.
"Battery replacement cost is probably the biggest fear of people who are hesitant to buy an electric vehicle." Exactly. It will never be a non-issue because batteries will continue to degrade over time. The point many EV advocates miss is that when that time comes you WILL need to replace them, and it WILL cost thousands of pounds (or dollars etc). That is not a concern you have with ICE cars because even if the engine does fail you can get a replacement relatively cheaply, and the cars also cost less to begin with, so it's less of a loss later on. The problem here is this is likely to be when they become more environmentally unfriendly, because it means more cars will be scrapped sooner than their equivalent ICE models, not necessarily because they are not fit for purpose but because people are not going to take the chance on buying an old car which has the potential of needing new batteries. Because those people are usually the ones that can least afford it. Even if the tech proves reliable, it's still going to be a gamble. On top of that, in Europe at least, the vast majority of new EVs are leased. Do you think those people who have them from new for three or four years are going to care about charging the battery correctly and not use it's full capacity because it may cause issues later on? No chance.
"battery health" in the context of a Tesla or any other electric vehicle typically refers to "battery degradation." Battery degradation describes the process where a battery's capacity to hold a charge diminishes over time and with use. When you see a battery health percentage, such as 7%, it indicates the percentage of capacity that the battery has lost compared to when it was new. For example, if a Tesla Model 3 originally had a battery capacity of 100%, and its battery health now shows 93%, this means the battery has experienced 7% degradation (Tesla Updates) (EvsGuy) (Electrek). Battery degradation is influenced by various factors, including: Usage patterns: Frequent high-power use or deep discharges can accelerate degradation. Charging habits: Regularly charging to 100% or allowing the battery to discharge completely can negatively impact battery health. Environmental conditions: Extreme temperatures, both hot and cold, can accelerate battery wear.
I'm more curious about the competition. The Model S has held up pretty well. GM and Ford can't seem to figure out how to make EVs, period. 2 GM Hummer sold in a quarter, and only 20k Bolts for a car that should sell like hot cakes at that price range. It's definitely not because of demand. I think they just can't make them reliably and/or at a profit.
@James Sepulveda I see Hyundai/Kia, but I'm not sure about Nissan. They all need to build factories in the US for EVs, which will take some time. I don't think any of their cars qualify for the EV credit. The Ioniq looks good on paper, but the supercharger network and the software for those cars are horrible even with Carplay, IMO.
@@Teddy_M85 all said company above has better customer service and warranties than tesla.Tesla is questionable when it comes to warranty and customer service. Tesla is also dodging issues with quality build . The real turn off with tesla is they're practice in marketing that has gotten them some bad reputation. Many things tesla hides from public. They recently gave option to dual motor non performance model 3 to have a $2000 performance upgrade minus the brakes and have the same performance like that of their expensive brethren who paid a solid 18,000 more for the performance. Sure no performance brakes and useless 20 inch rims but they royally screwed their customers that is why the performance model 3's are doing poor in sales. Tesla is losing its luster.
I think he question is not only if something happens to the battery after warranty. The question is also what the „no warranty“ risk is doing to the used market price of the vehicle. At one point you say „should I buy the vehicle?“ - even if you sold the vehicle the state of the battery would be considered in the price you get.
charging my electric toothbrush, charging my outdoor cam, charging my phones, charging my earbuds, charging my car, charging my labtop, charging my dog, charging my house, charging my wife, charging myself.
Andy is the reason i wanted to buy a tesla. I bought it back in 2020, 1 year after purchasing my tesla i was in a car accident and i truly think Tesla saved my life. when firefighter paramedics came to check on me they told me that if the car wasn't as bottom heavy as it was i would have most likely rolled. i came out of the accident with a totaled car and no injuries other than a mild concussion, bumps, bruises and scratches. Thank you Tesla for making the safest rated car in the world.
Thanks for that info.
That's funny...a car without a glass roof rolled down a cliff and the people didn't even need emergency services to get out. And it was a Hyundai Elantra.
Better results regardless of ending position...one third the cost.
@@billcichoke2534 the real tragedy was driving a Hyundai
What car did you replace it with. Glad to hear you are ok
@CozmicTaco Agree as it's a quality vehicle. But then again, neither is a Tesla. Same lower build quality, but the Hyundai is 1/3 as much money. And is less reliant on software.
93% is a 7% loss from 100%. Your battery health is fabulous!
Mine is circa 88% at 98k I did a test on my channel
This is how I interpreted it too, lol.
yet you dont know when it goes bad instantly, there no wear marks for it to find to prevent this.
The issue is the sudden deaths definitely happen and unlike a car I can't go grab a used one for 1500$ and drop it in the car is just a toatal loss at that point
this is not true. it is not showing health lost, it is showing pack health. source - I work for Tesla.
I have a Model Y with 70k miles ... super happy with it.
what year? base? awd? long range? thanks
I have a 2018 model 3 long range with a bit over 160k miles fully charged my car also gets 280 miles hope it keeps working this well for years to come
do u really get 280 miles?
@@jianbinchen2881no
In good weather only
@@dunes4242 well definitely true thankfully I live in California so it’s always pretty good
@@jianbinchen2881 no official testing but I’ve driven from the South Bay to los Angeles California multiple times and the numbers seem decent
Fantastic video! I would imagine that 7% is the amount of degradation, meaning you've lost 7% of battery life, which would align with what you are seeing on the Recurrent page or a close approximation at least (310 - 7%= 288.3). On a side note, it's mind-blowing how well it's holding up. I don't drive nearly as much, so I can only imagine that in cases like mine, the battery could possibly last 10 years easily. In my current car, I only have 13K miles after 2 years of ownership, and I don't see it getting over 30K before I sell it. It makes me wonder if manufacturers should all start valuing EVs, based on battery health and not just mileage, similar to what Recurrent is doing. It only makes sense to do so in a car that has very few wear items on it. The old system made sense because engines had only a certain life before they started giving issues, but now, it doesn't make sense to keep the current system for EVs.
wow 13k in 2 yrs!! I've got 27k and I've had my M3P 10 months!!
@@Slider_84 Yeah, I mostly only drive to and from work, pickup the kids from school, occasional Costco runs, and once in a while a short vacation trip. Daily though I only drive about 30 or so miles.
It also seemed to me that the 93 range score may mean that you have lost only 7% of charging capacity. I suggest you check with Tesla and use the info to publish a follow up video.
nope.
I said the same without reading your note - great minds think alike 🙂
Mileage is not the concern. Calendar time is the big issue. I've had various battery chemistries in various plug-in hybrid models. The company I worked for had a fleet of hybrids. Pretty consistently, at around year 10, regardless of mileage or battery chemistry, batteries start failing.
Exactly why tesla offered unlimited mileage for 8 years with the first model s.
Andy, please do a follow up on this as we all are looking forward to the outcome, Thanks much
For real!!!!
Yea
@@genisphyla Consumer Reports and Edmunds tell a vastly different story vs. this video and these comments. Further, the recent Chicago area cold temps showed the world what really happens with EVs in cold weather. The "range" numbers drop unbelievably. Nope...I think I'll take Consumer Reports & Edmund's word and stick to my Toyota ICE with a battery that I can buy at O'Reilly's and install myself without spending 20 or 30 grand. Or tires that wear prematurely and cost 2 grand to replace.
This is why the Service mode is for professionals and not for everyone.
As others already said, the 7% is the number of the battery degradation in the case of your LR. Being that the range number seen at 100% isn’t a number based on past driving history but on a BMS algorithm computation, the degradation of the battery can’t be determined easily by owners. Especially in cases when people use their car only for driving 30-40 miles a day. In those cases the range number is fluctuating because the BMS can’t read the max and the min voltage of the battery pack. So drive once in a while your battery from 100% to 3-5% SOC in a single run (no stop) to help the BMS to relearn the real Min and max cells voltage on your pack.
Or people could just be taught or the instructions could be clear. It says battery health 7/%. Not battery drag ruin 7%. So it's unclear and y'all tryna get on dude like it's funny.
I have seen numbers like 95% or 99% for newer cars. So are you saying their battery is 95% degraded in that case ;)
The label should have said Battery Degradation rather that Battery Health.
"They" on purpose use confuscating language in order to maintain the monopoly of repair and knowledge over the car. They could easily described the item in normal understandable language like "Total battery degradation on this battery since you received it new". That would do it and any child would understand it instead of this lawyer yibberish not even the judge understands lest the jury which normally has no clue whats going on and thus relies completely on emotions. Put that description in clear language and then no "professional" is needed to read a simple book.
@@9mmfederalrimmed235 Such truth on juries relying on emotion.
The battery replacement is about $20,000. Car isn’t worth half that at this point. That’s why buying them used is buyer beware because, even on a test drive, you have no real idea of the condition of the battery.
I can't get my EGO electric leaf blower battery to last past 2 years. God help someone with an electric car.
So, for a buyer to consider buying a high mileage Electric car, it must be cheap, because I know that I will have to plan to service the battery in the near future!
@@parterojerry exactly. A test drive around the block will not tell you the condition of that battery.
I've replaced batteries on S-E-X-Y while still under the 4 year warranty.
Can’t learn much about a used ICE motor on a test drive either.
This video is really on point because I am currently at 115,000 miles with my 2019 Tesla model 3. Thanks again for all of your help and The Truth!
7% health is how much you’ve lost.. not the overall battery 🪫 health
No it isn't.
Yes it is. It is the battery degradation
@@adam060577 yup
@@adam060577 No - it 100% is NOT - that's a fact, I'm not guessing. Does that mean my 4 month old car - which reads 100% on that test is 100% unhealthy ? You're a clown. Check the 100's of other videos showing results in the 80% plus range for same car - and keep dreaming about owning a Tesla!
The fact that the guy didn't catch that makes him seem slow af
I'm about to surpass 100k miles on my 2018 and my range loss from 310 miles is down to around 294 to 297. I have ran my car to less than 10% several times and range charge on road trips and about once every 6 to 8 weeks. Recently discovered that charging to various percentages maintains the most accurate on screen readings. So some times 70% 80% but the majority of my charging ends up at 90%. In 2021 it was only charging to 283-285 for the whole summer and then increased by the end of the year and there has been no drop in my range since then. It's all relative 😁
I’m half that and I only get 275 miles
@@gtbigdog3507 Do you live in the artic?
@@davidbeppler3032 Los Angeles
@@gtbigdog3507you live in traffic. 275 makes sense, no?
Out of Spec Reviews got the same puzzling result, and he charges only to 50-70% at home. Like others have suggested, it’s more likely the 7% is your battery degradation. Your current range estimates are consistent with 7% degradation.
L
We've been trying to reach you concerning your vehicle's extended warranty !😂😂😂
You: "I have a Tesla".
Salesperson: "Oh, in that case Hell nah!". Click.
It's almost been a year since this video came out, would you happen to have an update on battery health?
probably not good, including those $120 12volts constantly going bad
Yes, he does: ua-cam.com/video/xp5kD9IPt44/v-deo.html
I asked the same
Out of spec did the same test on their model 3 and got a similar number. They contacted Tesla and they said it was a glitch.
he won't ! and if he does, it will be not the same car.
All these maths don't mean anything until you actually go through the ownership cycle. Most people won't experience any of it as they change cars on average 3-5 years. It really applied to those that keeps their vehicles 10 years or more, which is me. I am not against EVs in general but not for it either. I think there's better alternative, and still waiting for more options. But it's definitely makes for a good dinner table discussion.
Exactly. I have never kept a car for longer than 4 years so it all depends on your needs and if you are planning to keep it long term.
Electric cars are harder to sell pre owned.
@@garrettstickel1189 because EVs are disposable cars
Would be really nice if down the road you could get an upgraded pack (range and/or chemistry) if replacement is needed.
That would be awesome to turn a standard range into a long range.
I would tend to believe what others have said that 7% (100-93) is the degradation. That would match the figure that Recurrent comes up with.
That doesn't make sense at all. iPhones also have battery healthy which counts down from 100%. 7% does really mean it is reaching end of it's life but how do you define end of life? That's defined by Tesla. The battery may well perform 70% capacity after 200K miles.
@@user-fx5sw4jy7hYz9Hzi In my mind, it makes sense. It seems to me that their intention is giving a percentage to the range you can expect at a full charge. If the range when brand new is 310 miles at 100%, and then you subtract this 7% figure, you end up at 288.3 miles of range when charged to 100%. So in essence, you've lost 7% of range when at 100% full charge. Which aligns with both what the screen on the Tesla says and what the Recurrent website shows.
@@ProXcaliberI did the rudimentary math after charging my 2019 M3P to 100%. It showed 285 miles. Based on a starting point of 310 miles that’s 8% degradation. Not as entailed as the service mode option performed here but seems to correlate.
@@mrh3085 Then you would be correct! The only other way to get a more concrete answer is to take it to Tesla directly and have them do a full service of the battery.
I would recalibrate my BMS first. You can do this by depleting your battery to a percentage lower than 10%, leave it there for at least an hour, and then charge it up to 100% until the charger stops adding energy to the battery. Then go for a drive to bring it back down to your normal 80-90%. You may need to do this a couple of times. I'm getting pretty close to that 120k milestone too. I do have a Cybertruck reserved, so I need to make a decision to either keep both vehicles or sell the Model 3 that's out of warranty by then. Tough call...I really love my Model 3!
The battery test does this
@@jamessepulveda5202 It does not deplete and recharge multiple times.
I have a cy ertruck reservation too , but would rather trade in my wife's sgitty gad Chevy instead of the telsa model 3 with FSD
This has never added any range for me.
I have a performance at 140,000kms. I spent 3 months last year travelling in the car using superchargers. When I did the test, I got 86%. I am keeping it until it's dead.
But I think a important thing to keep in mind is the battery pack price is going down. With faster and better manufacturing and improvements in scale. That price is dropping like the price to buy the car new.
Tesla has honestly reach their economy of scale and by the time you're replacing it I doubt they will use the same battery technology. You'll probably be using refurbished batteries that people combine good cells with.
The new factory produces NEW batteries which are not compatible with old cars, so, don't expect a big drop
Also.. most resources for building the battery are sourced in China...
Out of spec did the same test and got a similar result the first time. He found out there’s more to the test to make it accurate.
Yep. Professionals have the tools and know how. That is why you pay them. :)
@@davidbeppler3032there are no special tools needed to run the battery health test. When out of spec got a similar result as Andy, Kyle contacted Tesla service who confirmed there's a bug in the system that was causing incorrect battery health test results.
The issue is not degradation, it is cell failures or electronics failure inside the battery pack. But packs can be repaired!
And where can he go to repair the battery pack? Is Tesla doing it? Yes there’s a difference but that doesn’t help the current situation
@@LuckyAeon It depends on where you are. Gruber Motors in the US. In europe a number of 3rd party service partners by EVhub in Norway. Much cheaper than Tesla.
At what cost are they repaired or replaced??
@@alexnutcasio936 It depends on where and what it is. I have no idea where you from....
And for lower volume cars with proprietary packs that are not Tesla? Gonna be some unhappy owners at some point when warranties start ending on a lot of the BEVs sold in the last couple years in the US.
I think the sweet spot for charging is 90 percent everyone says 80 but when I bought my 23 model y long range it was draining the battery fast after I started charging at 90 percent it fixed all the problems and the car responds 100 percent better
So 90% is the new 100%.I have this on my phone.
You can set it to charge up to 80%, but it displays 100%.
I guess EV's are not that smart yet.
@@scorchedearth1451 You need your phone to lie to you about it’s actually battery capacity? You can set your Tesla to charge at whatever % you want, but it won’t lie to you & tell you a 80% charged battery is 100% charged.
A car lying to you about it’s fuel percentage puts you at risk of being stranded.
maybe 7% is 93% good, meaning health you have lost 7% of life,
I think you’re spot on!!
That’s what I’m assuming also!!
but it clearly says battery health is 7%, NOT 7% lost. Nowhere there is an indication that it is the loss and not the actual health.
I have done approx 20k miles on a 2022 Model Y LR in 8 months. I plan on keeping it until I can no longer drive. (I am on my lay 50s now). Will replay the battery as needed. So I would say keep it….
I hope you are right sir! By the time you reach 85yrs there will be full self driving!
I don’t think you have much to worry about, we live near Vancouver Canada which is a magnet for thousands of TESLA’s (there are five on our street alone) of various models primarily 3’s and Y’s even saw a PLAID the other day. Considering the S has been around for over ten years I have never heard of a battery or electric motor failure in a S or any other TESLA for that matter.
By any chance did you ask Tesla Service Department what the 7% degradation means?? Really enjoy your videos.
Was the term Degradation used? I heard and red "Battery Health".
Weighing the cost of battery replacement against the cost of a new car might lead one to just go with a new battery and save 30K on a new car purchase. However, I personally would be concerned about the drive assembly and the rest of the car's systems after more than a decade on the road. All these concerns have lead me to be skeptical about buying a used EV but you have at least shown that the battery question is less of a concern than I imagined, at least for a used Tesla.
I bought a used 2012 model s and after 1000 miles had to replace the $7500 powertrain. Not fun.
@BrenttheGreat wow that really blows.
@@lenacheney Yeah! Darn it.
It is not, plenty of batteries just stop working altogether and you need to replace them.
Degradation is clearly not the problem.
@tiloalo your right all of the people complaining about their ev batteries aren't about degradation but of sudden failure not under warranty. People like to overlook this and argue they can go for 300,000 miles. Also another issue with Ev batteries are they can spontaneously catch fire and take hours to put out as they keep catching on fire over and over and over
Drive it…the replacement cost us the same no matter WHEN it happens in the lifecycle. 👍
well it could get cheaper as commodity prices drop eventually, kind of an uncontrolled cost.
Is it possible that the 7% actually indicates how much the battery has degraded? It certainly correlates with the 93 range score.
NO, because he's degraded more than 7% by his own statistics. You'll lose 3-5 % in the first year alone and after that its all a guessing game.
@@alexnutcasio936 Did you even watch the video? The Recurrent app gave him a range score of 93, and his admittedly not too accurate "charge up and drive down" calculations came in at "around 90%". Certainly, all these would be in acceptable margins of error if, indeed. the "7" in question meant the amount of degradation that had taken place.
@@alexnutcasio936 thats an average and not an absolute.
In regards to your concerns about the battery health of 7% I am wondering whether the display is correct but sort of inversed. You have a range score of 93 (%?) yet a battery health of 7% (add both figures and get 100). Could it actually be that the battery has only degraded 7%, ie 93% healthy? I hope you find the answer.
Battery capacity is not the only measure of battery health and some of the warnings and failure reports are hidden from the owners by tesla. In one reported incident, the owner used the diagnostic program to check on the battery and it warned him an error in one of the battery modules. Tesla fixed the problem by having the diagnostic program stop reporting the problem.
Renault has addressed this issue by offering to lease the battery instead of owning it.
It is like a permanent warranty, or an insurance, at a monthly cost.
Right now it’s about $74 per month. Less than one gas fill up (~$8+ per gallon in Europe).
hm
this insurance has the potential to go very wrong
imagine your tesla battery dies on its last year of warranty
you will get a new one for free
meaning you would have payed 7200$ of insurance with the renault for nothing
@@NextGHaHaHaHave you ever had an iPhone that lasted 8 years?
@@wshyangify has an iphone more than one battery cell
or active thermal management?
If youre concerned about battery degradation, just buy the LR model. Even with the off chance that down the line it has 30%-40% degradation, it should still have plenty of range for the everyday drive.
Actually, if daily driving is the concern, it's as good or better to buy the standard range, which is recommended to be charged to 100%, which gives as much range as a long range charged to 80%, and twice the expected cycle life, due to its lithium iron phosphate battery.
@@bearcubdaycare That's the first time I've heard this. Why such a drastically different battery between the two?
@@bearcubdaycare That has not been proven. Most of the highest mileage Model 3 recorded are actually LR not LFP batteries per reports shown in the Electric Viking channel.
At 10 years I had 105,000 miles on my model S. Battery failed, 16,000 dollars later, and I have less range than the first battery, I can’t recommend buying the replacement battery , it’s junk
I can buy a 10 years old diesel car for 3000 yankee bucks and drive it for 10 years
@@InternetExplorer-s9g You can't find a diesel for $3k. You're lying.
@@tjmattingly33 plenty of good diesel cars for 3000-4000 euros in europe
I only have 78k miles on mine and I’m just amazed at the quality of the drivetrain. My previous Subaru forester XT at 50k miles, the engine was already making ticking noises so I made the decision to trade it in while it was still worth something. 😂
Subarus make ticking noises when new because of direct injection system. It’s normal and not a sign of an issue. Not saying Subarus are the best cars out there. Just letting you know that it was fine.
@@dillonh321 mine did not make a ticking noise until 45k. It got louder and louder - hence traded it in while it was still running. 😂
@@LordLoMR2sounds like a lifter/valve adjustment issue. Probably wouldn't have cost much to fix but congrats on the superior Tesla
As stated below, your 7% doesn't sound bad at all. My 2018 Model 3 RWD LR is about at the same state. Also bear in mind that based on my Michigan experience battery SOC is extremally temperature dependent. I drive a 100 mile route almost weekly in temperature ranges from -7 to 100 F at a nearly constant speed of 60 MPH. At 75F the range estimate is nearly perfect, at times during a morning drive gong from a crisp to warm morning, I have even experienced range increase! As you state, it is mostly about battery chemistry. and most 3s and Ys have the 21700 battery. That being said, your original 310 miles of range is the benchmark of a brand new battery pack and you can expect a 3-4% drop as the battery "settles in" over the first year or two. Then expect a 1-2% drop over the next several years. Depending on your charging habits, that drop off should somewhat flatten if you only use supercharging sparingly and generally keep your charging cycle to 20 to 80% (roughly 60 to 250 miles range) at level 2 charging. Then I would expect the battery to be serviceable for another 10 to 20 years. Some "tricks" to long battery life; charge as soon as you can if below 40% and try not to leave the car sitting with a low battery, that is the worst. Only charge to 100% occasionally when you know you will want the the extra miles right away. Long term sitting (I define as over 2 weeks), best if you can leave it plugged in at level 1 or 2 and set the charge to 50 to 60% If you need to let it sit without being plugged in long term, I would try to leave it around 70% and leave things like security monitoring off and resist the temptation to keep checking the phone app. This allows it to go into "deep sleep" and will minimize "phantom drain". Anyone with and comments, suggestions or experience please do so.
What you said is most impressive, but its also total speculation. Objectively, we don't know how much and to what level to charge to as Tesla has often changed their guidance over the years (just ask Like Tesla Kim). Even Toyota can not agree on that level to charge their Prime vehicles, but they do know what they charge their hybrids to and its typically between 20-80%. Given that, we're speculating that 20-80 is the perfect range for a Tesla battery buy no one knows ( since at least 2018 models) how long a Model 3 or Y battery (2020) will go before needing replacement. In fact, we're just getting the Model S and X indicators now and the S clearly shows that after a few years (define a few) that the S battery from the S 75 or the S60 now need replacement, so they are essentially paperweights at this point since replacement exceeds fair market value of vehicle. Basically, its all anecdotal and supposition at this point. Tesla insists that supercharging is not bad for a battery, but many claim or believe otherwise. So, we don't know what we don't know.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. The only thing I do (bc of commute daily) is charge to 90%. Off days, 20% to 70% or 80%. 2170 cells are like magic rocks. The chemistry with these batteries are awesome. Let’s hope the 4680’s do well in project highland. 🤷🏽
@@gust9464 we don’t know if Project Highland is getting 4680s. 2170s seem to be just as good.
@@alexnutcasio936 depends so much on the type of battery. Our ModY uses LFP (HV)and Li-ion for the low voltage. So charging regularly to 100% is the preferred method. Since the individual battery’s voltage range is much narrower than Li-ion so less mechanical and chemical change/wear. LFP batteries should hold their SOH and range much longer than Li-ion.
@@alexnutcasio936 How can you compare the batteries from Model S from 2014 laptops to the EV batteries in 2020 Model 3/Y? They are different chemistry, form factor, quality control, battery management, cooling, and charging. I expect my TM3LR to last more than 20 years and a million miles. Just based on battery degradation statistics. We have the math.
This reminds me of the time I went to a health portal and misread test results to mean I had cancer. Feels great when you find out from a professional that you are wrong.
Devaluation is what you should worry about. The value drops faster than a lead balloon
At work we just put a $6,000 transmission in a 2022 f150 with 7,500 miles on it because Ford would not repair it under warranty. I’ll take my chances with my 2019 model 3 currently at 86,000 miles.
First mistake was buying a Ford.
While I agree with most, it could be 7% battery degradation. I did notice your battery was at 18% when you started the test. If the test works off of watt hours discharged vs watts charged, you would have to start with a fully charged battery. Otherwise the computer thinks 18% was fully charged, giving you a battery at the end of it's life.
Before starting the test , "battery should be below 50%" can be seen on screen
That's not how it works lol. The computer knows the battery isn't fully charged. You're talking out your azz.
I own a 2021 Model 3 SR+, with 31,000 miles on it thus far.
Here’s my take on this non-issue:
IF my car needs a new battery pack (and that’s a gigantic IF) and it’s out of warranty, I’ll get a new pack.
Far cheaper than getting a new car (average new car price is $45,000 now).
The Tesla is reliable, and it gets OTA updates which keeps it current and fresh. A new battery pack would let me keep driving my fun, cheap, and easy to live with Tesla? That’s an easy choice for me!
So, if I am reading you correctly, you're willing to spend (lets say $14,000) for a new SR battery in 6 years when your car has a value of $15,000? Sure , makes sense to me , LOL.
@@alexnutcasio936 Battery costs keep falling and technology keeps improving, In 6 years time they probably won’t cost 14K,and there will likely be even more service shops out there who will fix rather than replace the battery. 6 years is a long time so highly doubtful things will be the same/cost the same as today. That’s the metric I’ve used when ordering our Model 3. 8 year 192000 km warranty, we drive 15000 km per year so I’m happy with that. We plan on keeping ours for 10 years.
@@gbw28 "We plan on keeping ours for 10 years.
" Good luck with that. Ask any old Model S owner about their OLD battery and your mind will change.
@@alexnutcasio936 like I said, batteries will be alot cheaper by then so who cares? 10 years is a very long way away. Plenty of ICE cars needing expensive engine and or transmission repairs at that age and even younger. How many of them have 8 year 192000 km warranties? The stories of ICE car owners having very expensive repair bills just out of warranty are plentiful. There are model 3 owners whose vehicles have done 100k miles and even some 200k miles, no battery replacement necessary.
@@gbw28 haven’t seen a single Model 3 anywhere with 200k miles. It’s not unusual for a modern ICE engine to go 200k miles without any major issues and if it’s a diesel, 400-500k miles is not unheard of . P,Ys, a new JCE engine is more like $3-5$k, not $25k for a battery. The cost advantage is still with the ice long term.
ICE engine and tranny replacements are also quite expensive and may sometimes effectively exceed the residual value of the car. So there’s that…
True, and a difference is the number of systems that can go wrong with an old ICE vehicle. Even with a engine and/or a tranny replacement, there's still the exhaust system and the cooling system (replace radiator), belts and hoses. With an EV there's just the battery and the motor; and supposedly the motors are million mile motors. Tires and steering is common to both ICE and EV. So with an EV, for approx 15k battery replacement you can get pretty much a new car. (corrosion is probably the biggest limiting factor).
If you buy a reliable brand, ICE cars can last up to 500K miles with proper care. No EV can match that.
Supercharging is the weakness of these batteries, increased cell death and reduced cycle life. They should add something like a warranty limitation for Supercharging then add more warranty for age and mileage. LFP batteries appears to be more robust and would like to finally see it in the Model Y
Uhm model Y already here with LFP. Many driving around here in Netherlands.
My ownership of a 2014 p85d with free supercharging has not shown this to be the case. I am surprised by the resilience.
not true. Actual statistical analysis of real cars shows no statistical difference between cars mostly supercharged vs. cars that seldom supercharged. Why? Probably because the BMS ensures that heat is kept within reasonable levels in either case. The rate of charge when heat is kept within reasonable range is also theoretically not relevant in actual research at Stanford so we have two clear pieces of evidence that Supercharging is not degrading packs
@@climatenomad It's because Tesla replaces these packs under warranty, citing it as manufacturing defect. Many packs that are used for ride hailing consistently failed or lose modules or drop to half the range under frequent Supercharging. Whereas the expected effect is gradual loss of maximum range. I've heard many high mileage Teslas that did not have any issue with their battery packs that seldom SUpercharge
I have almost 90k miles on my 2020 MYLR, and the battery degradation is about 8%. I plan to keep it for as long as possible.
That's bad
@@bigballer3249 It's not bad at all. Typically Teslas lose about 10% of battery life over the first year then almost nothing more after that.
@@DracoGuitars nobody I know got as high as 10% loss in the first year. It's higher at first in general but nearly 10%
@@bigballer3249 a 4 year old car with 100k miles on it. Do you expect the car & it’s battery to last forever 😑
It could be 7% loss, and I hope it is. But could also be increased internal resistance, which doesn’t directly affect capacity though they happen simultaneously. Internal resistance affects amps hence watts. Is acceleration reduced?
I dunno, If a company could put a 93% on there instead of 7% they would have
Best view is its either a glitch or needing some other way to interpret result. Very reassuring video either way Andy for so many concerned about the battery life.
If you have to replace your battery, how much are they giving for the current battery in the car? No one talks about that
my 2015 model S with 126k miles just die :/ that's how I got to this video. It is funny that it went out at 126K miles and the warranty covers until 125K 🙃
Biggest cost for electric cars: resale value. No one will want to buy a Tesla with 200k miles. Let alone the depreciation hit you took after purchase
Man, I have been looking for a Model S/3 with 200k miles thinking they would be 12/15k... they are going for 20k yet.
This is an odd comment. Imagine buying a Chevy with 200k miles, you're essentially buying a yard ornament lol
Nobody likes to buy a ICE car with generally over 100k let alone 200k you can forget it. Mileage doesn’t mean anything in the EV world - it’s batter health that is more important
@@MichaelMillerJ Running a cruze with 249K on it. Manual trans. It gets 175 miles a day most time. Turbo too. NOT a yard ornament. I cant even get a car into my yard!
I've had two batteries fail in my 21 Model 3 Performance. One day it says, unable to charge contact service. Both have been under warranty, so I looked up how much a used battery is just in case the day comes when I need a replacement on my dime. Searching on car-part, there are multiple batteries for sale for $3000.00. I would consider this similar to needing a new motor in an ICE car.
You can also balance the battery and re-run the battery health test.
Did you do a follow-up on this to get a Tesla interpretation of what "7%" is supposed to mean? What about the other data provided by doing the test, what does it mean? Would you consider running the test on her/your Model Y for comparison?
My 2020 Model S has lost 1% range after 80,000 miles driven. There are three issues that adversely impact battery life:
1. Times supercharged
2. Times charged to 100% or Times driven to 10% (or less)
3. Times you do 0-60 launches in performance vehicles.
If you take care of your batteries they will last hundreds of thousands of miles.
No, they won't... nobody had to replace a battery due to degradation.
It's always something else that fails (electronic, a single cell failing, ...).
And that can happen anytime.
Just see how many used Tesla S are on sale with a replaced battery pack way before reaching 200k moles.
@@tiloalo Excessive heat coming in or going out is the main culprit of battery failure in a Tesla.
@Axethales from what I saw it's also very often the BMS that fails or water ingress that causes issues.
And it also doesn't seems related to supercharging or abuse
My brother in law had a transmission go out on his 2014 minivan with 80,000 miles. The replacement cost is 8200 not counting the issues that had preceded it cost wise.
I have seen some cars that said their battery was fine until a day or two before it dies. Where I live you have to reveal a known issue - so if you know the battery is at 7% you have to say that when selling or face a lawsuit.
For the record, Li-Ion battery chemistry is the same wherever that type of battery is used. So yes, Tesla batteries are exactly the same as the one used for a trolling motor, cell phone, laptop... The only difference is a cooling system which as you pointed out is better managed in cars than in cell phones :) Your battery health check results are therefore mostly accurate. Maybe not exact, but close enough for you to start worrying.
Not true. While the basic chemistry is the same, there are a lot of variable in manufacturing the battery from purity of elements, assembly environment, percent (recipe) of elements and the small percent of other elements added to the particular battery.
@@ohger1 All Li-Ion batteries are identical in the way they operate because they share the same internals. Purity of materials may make a slight difference in longevity but not a huge one. Most batteries are made by only a handful of manufacturers so variances are small. I'm talking about known brands like Samsung, LG, Panasonic and similar, not something obscure.
@@Steelologist The only thing identical about all lithium ion batteries is the voltage per cell. No two battery companies use the exact same chemistry (we'll ignore the exact manufacturing process here), and indeed, various chemistry patents defend that argument. A company like Samsung (for instance) makes all kinds of cells, from garbage pouch batteries for phones or cylindrical cells for laptops that they design to last a handful of years to high quality cells with different chemistry and different production techniques. Even taking battery electrical and thermal management off the table, cells used in EVs are not analogous to phone and laptop cells.
@@ohger1 LOL, you obviously know nothing about this subject, but feel free to keep embarrassing yourself.
@@ohger1 Correct. Lithium ion cells are often dramatically different between manufacturers and even a manufacturer's own product lines. Just recently we've run across counterfeit lithium ion batteries that one of our buyers acquired on sample. They don't deliver rated AH and they don't last anywhere near as many cycles as quality producers - but they're still lithium ion.
If Tesla believed that their battery is good for 10 or more years, then it would offer that warranty.
The fact that they don't, proves that their lying when suggesting that it should be good and you asking customer to "trust" a multibillion, multinational company makes you a horrible person.
Hi Andy, maybe 7% health actually means 7% degradation? Weird way to describe it, but it more or less matches your range estimate.
Yes I was thinking exactly this!
Congratulations on reaching such an impressive milestone with your 2018 Tesla Model 3! With a range score of 93 and only a 10% degradation after 120,000 miles, it's understandable why you're inclined to continue driving your Model 3 confidently. For me I'd still drive it but will continue to monitor battery health closely while adhering to best charging practices. Hope that in the future they have a charging limiter for these.
Great info, early cars like my Nissan leaf 2012 had no thermal management aka cooling so they degraded a lot quicker only have 30mi range on my leaf it's over 10 years old I'm considering dismantling the pack identifying bad modules and changing them out
Thats the problem with the Leaf. Much as I am not a Tesla fanboi, the battery management is very good when it comes to thermal management. As for rebuilding the battery pack, I would suggest it is a fraught exercise because you will be chasing your tail with other cells dying weeks or days after you rebuilt it. Not to mention the hazards of dealing with a high voltage battery pack and trying to match the new cells with old cells so they are compatible with the charging system. A good way to burn your car if the new cells don't like being charged as much or they keep the charging going longer on the old cells. A lot of DIY home battery and DIY scooter builds show a bad history.
I have a 2013 Tesla model 3 Performance with 115,000 miles on it. Range dropped from 310 miles when it was new to 275 miles now. I still love this car
They didn't make the model 3 in 2013
Great video Andy. Thank you. I hopefully keep my Tesla for about 10 years too. I had it for 4 years now n 34k miles, with FSD . Still loving it.
You are going to learn something painful. By 10 years, your car will be worth exactly $0.00. Why? Because by the time you sell your car, the world will be very aware that 10 years is the real expected life of the battery. Battery replacements and repairs will not get cheaper. You will be asked how old is your battery, and at 10 years old, it's considered a scrap car. Mark my words, you will lose whatever savings you think you were going to get owning a Tesla. It will be a complete money pit for you by the time you reach 10 years.
at 10 years most batteries are basically shitting themselves, even at lower mileage
@@bn880 Even Franz said 10 years on Leno's Garage. He's literally Mr Tesla. Why wouldn't any fanboys listen to Mr Tesla when he tells them they and the environment are screwed with expensive and environmentally bad battery replacements? You can google so many battery experts telling you the same thing. Expect 10 years. You might get 15, but do you feel that lucky? If so, bet all your money on #16 in Roulette, because your odds are about the same.
@@JetFire9you have got to go touch grass.
What we should be concerned is BMS imbalance… not degradation, degradation has been proven not to be a significant issue with electric cars. The most common cause of battery failure is cell imbalance. That’s the concerning part of owning an Ev outside warranty and the main thing keeping me from buying an EV outside US, Asia and Europe. I want to buy an EV and send it to the Caribbean but battery cell imbalance has me worried
OMG what timing, TY! This is EXACTLY what I've been researching over the past 2 days. This has been my biggest fear and the reason I haven't bought a model Y yet.
Its a valid concern and a REAL fear. WHY? Because no one KNOWS insofar as the 3 and Y are concerned. We do know that batteries can and WILL degrade over time and use. We just don't know the hard numbers. The forums are replete with references to the original S batteries from 2012 and on and its not looking good long term. Many have been replaced or the car sold or traded due to degradation and loss of range.
@@JMC-ul1sw so you recommend? Thinking of getting a model Y long range, but the videos I watch are 50/50 been asking around in the comments, I’m so indecisive
I have a coworker who has 160K miles on his 2018 LR model 3. He dropped 20% of his range in the first 100K miles and now his battery shows < 40 miles of range. Service center manager told him, "You drove over 150K miles, what did you think would happen?" - it wasn't a $15K bill.
Yea, amazing how many people have the same "coworker" story lmao
@@MrTimmyGTyup. Happened to my coworker. same thing.
I would definitely keep it! I've been driving my 2014 Nissan Leaf for 9 years and logged 94,000 miles and lost 40% of my battery capacity so far! That's probably because Nissan used older generation lithium batteries back then. So the fact you only lost 10% after driving 120,000 miles is very impressive! Unless you need to take frequent trips of over 250 miles per day I don't see why you would need to replace the batteries or car and spend 16k+. Even with my Leaf's meager 75 miles range, I can still perform 99% of my daily tasks because most of my daily activities are within 15 miles away from me.
Air cooled leaf😢
Get rid of the leaf. The leaf have old battery tech. Lfp that the current model 3 use are the newer battery tech that people use for solar home. They have claims of lasting 10 plus years and 2000 plus charge cycle.
its about the age, the car is less than 5 years old
@@brucey5585 So you think he should get rid of his FREE car that meets 99% of his driving needs to buy a $40,000 new EV? That's not a solid plan to meet one's future retirement goals 😂
120,000 miles on a 40 mpg car is 3000 gallons, at say, $4/gallon that's $12,000 in savings. Plus not doing 40 oil changes (say $30 each) $1200. Let's say at least 2 brake changes (and no mechanic in the world just does brake changes, they always tell you you need a new rotor) add another $500. We're up to $13,700 towards a $20,000 battery if that ever fails.
True but most people don't put away the money they dave on these services for a possible battery replacement. I'm sure some do.
Awesome video to kick off Derby week- great job! the next gneration of lithium iron phosphate batteries will do even better than this. Imagine 2800 charge cycles at 250 miles per cycle = 700,000 miles?! With proper care and feeding, that means you only need to purchase 2 vehicles in your LIFETIME. In all honesty, EV are much cheaper for the full life cycle- the biggest enemy is winter road salt and corrosion. The battery is not the issue.
Who wants to only drive two vehicles in their lifetime? I want one every 4 or 5 years at most.
In Michigan, I calculated 3 years ago that my ICE car cost me 10c per mile and my EV cost me 5c per mile to drive in gas/electicity. This has probably changed but since both gas and electricity went up it is still probably a good comparison. On my EV I also pay an additional $140 for registration to cover taxes that I do not pay on gas. So, to run my ICE car 15000 miles a year it cost me $1500 in gas. The EV cost me $890 to go the same miles. However, my EV cost $43,000 versus a similar sized ICE car that would have cost me about $10k less. This means on purely gas savings I would take 16 years to break even. I got the EV because I love how they drive, I love charging at home and having a full tank every morning. But these are not the answer unless battery tech takes at least a 4 fold leap in range and 4 fold reduction in charging times. And we still need to solve the pollution that making just the battery for the EV causes.
You (we) also aren't paying for oil changes X4 every year, transmission service every 35K, and twice times or more brake jobs. We also don't need to worry about things like timing belts/water pumps, plugs, coils, etc. Although if you drive like me, the tires on an EV last about 80% as long as on a car with half the power.
you said how much you saved by not buying gas and oil etc. You never mentioned how much it costs to keep that vehicle charged for that period. electricity is not free.....just like lunch.
Assuming charging half at home and half supercharging about $10,000 average.
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Long Range - Single Motor - 5 years - 101,000 miles
Have been charging for 5 years at the Super Chargers (Free). 2018 - 310 miles / 2023 - 295 miles - Still at 95%. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Thanks for the Video
Another thing to keep in mind is that even if a battery degrades or has a bad module, it is still worth a lot of money. So just like replacing an engine in a gas car, with the bad engine being sold and rebuilt, so can a battery pack. Especially with a rise in EV battery recycling, a consumer would be able to make up a lot of the cost of a new battery by selling the old battery. This help offset the total cost of a new replacement if it happens outside of the warranty period. Tesla also launched its extended warranty which may also help ease some worrying. Realistically, if you aren’t strictly supercharging and follow Tesla’s recommended charging guidance you won’t have to worry.
Exactly current research shows used ev pack's retain $38-$42 per kwh in scrapping value.
This isn't all true. My 2013 was operating fine, but my car went to sleep and I has to take it to Tesla to wake it up and when the vehicle was returned... my battery was limited to 90 miles maximum. Out of warranty and the want to charge me $20k and no... there's no recycling discounts.
@@jamesstarks3676 Correct, it's absolute garbage. It's worth money to the recyclers, just like any scrap, but not to the owners, it's just another big repair bill.
Kind of BS, replacing the battery even with a used one will cost you over 10 or 15k$. And no, nobody will buy your broken pack for 10k.
@@tiloalo the packs are warrantied 10 years/ 100k miles. Yes people will buy it because it’s worth a lot to recycle or to just replace the modules and resell it. These batteries don’t go bad very often. You always see worst case scenarios all over the internet and most of them are BS.
Mine in S suddenly went to 11% @ 260.000mls. But it was not reality. It took $4000 to replace a few faulty cells and regenerate it. It is back to 96%, now @ 285.000mls. I think that the major problem is that a vast majority do not see outside of Tesla service network. There's a network of independent Tesla servicers now, and they know about them. There is a lot of inside knowledge, and a lot can be rebuilt, it's electronics.
Toyota, Škoda diesels one 13 years old the other 15 years old with over 300,000 miles each on the clock, and both cars still running fine, using no oil between changes, and the fuel consumption being pretty much the same as when they were new. Should your Tesla manage to achieve a similar age and mileage, I wonder what state the battery would be in. The other thing that I would find interesting would be, how a Tesla with say 200,000 miles or so on the clock sell on? Used car dealers here in the UK seem reluctant to take in part exchange high mileage EVs........
Or even stock EV’s
And how much have you spent on fuel ? This guy has free supercharging which basically means free fuel for life !
I was interested in a used, early Tesla Model S for $15,000. However, two things stopped me from becoming an EV owner. One was the $400 per month insurance, more than what I pay for both insurance and my current ICE car payment. The other was the fear of what it would cost if I needed to replace anything, including the battery.
What do you expect buying a used luxury car?
@@mrnarason You are right, I shouldn't expect an older luxury car to be cheap anymore. It's not like back in the day that different cars were just rebranded as different models with a few more add-ons. Remember when you could swap a Chevy engine into any GMC, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, or Corvette?
I was really hoping to get an EV as my next vehicle. In my state I could get a Chevy Bolt for as little as $14,000 if I owed enough taxes at the end of the year. Sadly I can't make it happen and the Bolt is therefore pushed out of my budget.
However, now I'm kind of glad I can't get one seeing how on Transport Evolved it cost $3,000 just to fix the A/C on a Bolt. So I guess no EV for me for a long while.
sounds like you're too poor to afford an EV, there are no evs $15k and under in the US dude@@tiojuan174
Glad to hear, presume the 7% is not bad. I dont drive much per year, and worry i would be wasting the car by letting it sit so much. The opposite of this, but still a concern: constant maintenance charging..what could go wrong? And Michael jorden is a dated example my man, though I did get the analogy!
Probably make it last longer , the less you drive the longer between your charging cycles , your battery could last forever if your charger cycles are far and few between
Jay Leno owns a 1905 Baker electric , still runs today and only had batteries replaced once or twice in 100 years
I have a 2013 Model S with 201,000 miles. Still have 87% battery capacity. I recommend keeping your Model 3.
Interesting! My brother in law has the same car you have with less than half the mileage to date. On a recent visit, we departed his home with a full charge, drove about 100 miles away on a 45 degree spring day, mostly expressway driving, and returned home later that day after sunset. I was surprised that the car needed a brief (10-15 minute) charge on the way home, based on projected range remaining. The nearest charge point available is 35 miles from their home, so there was no plan B option. B in L was not surprised. I understand that cabin heat can use a lot of range, but this was not a cold winter day. I would be disapointed if I could not complete a 200 mile "real world" trip on a spring day without charging.
Then you want a 2020 or newer LR model 3. Heat pump is a must for energy savings in cold or hot weather.
@@davidbeppler3032 No... actually, I want a car I can drive 1000 miles on two 10 minute fuel stops... like my ten year old Honda Accord. Sure am glad it will run for another ten years and 125K miles. Not interested in a $70,000 car that requires me to accomodate its short comings.
@@billyjoejimbob56 : The crucial short-coming of your old Honda Accord is that it uses gasoline ! which must be pumped out of oil wells ! Those oil wells will be depleted in a couple of decades ! And it will take nature billions of years to replenish them ( out of dead bodies of creatures which are alive at this time !)
That's the cold hard truth of EV's at least at this point. If you plan on taking long trips over 5 hours you might as well buy and ICE vehicle. I've heard all kinds of fantastic claims about the range of EV's like the Model 3, but i know several people with them and they barely get 200 miles on a single charge. The battery technology just hasn't advanced far enough yet. I'll wait. I'm not gonna spend 38k on an electric car when it's a wash when you consider your electricity bills, limited range, etc. Just not worth it.
@@billyjoejimbob56 Exactly this. My car has the exact same range it had when it was built 14 years ago, I don't need to worry about charging it before I set off as I can get fuel just about anywhere. I don't have to plan my journey, need to follow a route on a screen, worry about chargers not working or people queuing to use them, for the same reason. When I do stop to fill up, usually after 400+ miles, I'm on my way again in 5 minutes.
And anybody paying more than £500 or so a year for their leased car is already paying more than I paid to buy the car outright, in cash, zero % interest and will never make up the deficit in fuel savings. I'm speaking from the point of view of a UK resident but this isn't knocking EVs, it's quite simply the reality of buying (leasing) and running one.
I've had significantly worse experience. My 2018 Model 3 Dual Motor has 81.6k miles and is down to 266 miles of rated range (86% of new) according to the BMS. I do regularly supercharge for work trips (20% of my charging over the last year). I often also run the car down to low SOC in the process to minimize time on the road/ charge time. That said I'm surprised that amount of supercharging makes such a large difference- if my degradation continues linearly I'll have lost twice over the battery capacity of Andy 120k miles and I'll be at 79%.
@@JMC-ul1sw Yes but that’s misleading. If I’m stretching to make the next supercharger and I arrive with low charge pre-conditioning often doesn’t start until a few mikes before I pull in.
I’ve had the same experience with my 2018 M3P - 268 miles of range estimated on the TeslaFi battery health test. I rarely charge at SCs (it was 5 months before my first SC charge); just charge at home with WC. I have varied the limit over time, between 80% and 90% (80% for the past two years), and have it plugged in in my garage almost always. So perhaps the 90% charges early on were partly responsible, even though Tesla (& Elon) officially said 90% was OK.
I'd be tempted to abuse it as much as possible so that it'll fail within the warrantee period.
I’d always charge above 30%, use navigate to so it’s preconditioned. Never to 100% idle overnight or longer. Drive to below 75%. Chemical degradation greatest when sitting at 100% on a hot day.
After 26 months of operation, my MYLR has 72K km (roughly 44K miles). There have been 5 long road trips (Toronto to Orlando) and more are planned. I’m interested to do the test on my own car, but I’m a bit fearful of just what I might find…
why would you be fearful? arent you still under warranty?
Queensland Australia. I have 2019 Model 3 standard range, now 110 000 KM started with 340 km range, now 320 km range. Using power from my solar panels and home battery. 5 years only cost 4 new tyres (plus ins. rego etc) Twice had to steal some air from a petrol station.
A neighbour in my mother's complex has an out-of-warranty battery failure, with a quote from Tesla for Can$22,000 to get it back on the road. Common or not, all EV batteries will eventually fail. Hopefully one day it will be practical to locally repair and refurbish the battery packs to bring these costs down.
how many miles were on the car/battery at the time? Did the battery crap out all at once, or slow degrade to a point just below 80% capacity?
All at once.
Batteries are made from poisonous materials and bad for environment.
Apparently the cost here in the UK to replace the battery is around £5-6k, which seems very reasonable to say you'll get another several 100k miles out of your car again.
My P85D battery pack failed 20 days after warranty expired, 10 days after I bought it from a dealer, and the same morning I has a service center appointment with an unrelated issue… Dealer wanted to replace module(s) for 4K but would not honor implied warranty of merchantability in my state to replace full battery. It has been a 4 month long nightmare, to say the least. I would rather have the battery replaced, but I fear the other components will also need attention with 100k and 8 years old. So, I bought a new Model 3, but regret it because supercharging is a lot more expensive than I anticipated and is equal to the new car payment.
Definitely keep going. I have a 2022 model y long range. I will run it until the battery dies and replace the battery, then rinse and repeat
I'm guessing if you save 2k a year for battery replacement after 10 years the funds will be there for a new Battery!
The big battery on my 2019 model X died a few months ago, thankfully it was under warranty. My initial warranty is up in September and I’m trying to decide if I should buy the extended warranty? Does anyone have thoughts on it?
Unfortunately, the extended warranty is separate from the battery and does not extend the battery warranty beyond the original mileage. As a result, I don’t think purchasing the extended warranty would give you the additional coverage you were implying you wanted. Personally, I was confused why Tesla even created an extended warranty that did not include the battery.
Just enjoy your new battery and assume you will get at least as much use out of it. 2 batteries for the price of one.
@@bwolf8099 I prefer the big screen on my X so I’m leaning towards keeping it. I’m contemplating the warranty to cover the other features like falcon wing doors. I don’t like that there is the $200 deductible.
One thing I noticed was that the "7" was green. If it were bad, I am sure the color would have been red.
It would interesting to access each battery cell voltage.
May be you need to do a full charge-discharge to have the BMS balancing the battery.
You should try an OBd2 scan tool such as Scan My Tesla.
It provides Battery degradation information and Cells voltage.
When I used to long distance travel to and from work I put 120,000 miles on a vehicle in one year at times.
Batteries on EV cars should be exchangeable. Just like the new law on mobile phones. So much better
They are exchangeable, for $15k to $20k
batteries produce constant power right up to the fail point where they basically die. I would like to hear Tesla's explanation of what that health level tells you.
that warranty seems really good
I just rented a Model 3 this past weekend. It was a nice car with outstanding power, but I burned thru 40% of battery life (77% to 37%) by driving only 75 miles. With a full charge, that would only equate to less than 190 miles.
Drive it until the wheels fall off which will happen way before the battery dies.
The value of a 100k miles 2020 model 3 here in the uk is around 14k. if the battery goes you aint replacing it. Your just going to part the car out and be done with it. These are not cars that should be repaired. They should be recycled or scrapped once they battery life goes bad.
"Battery replacement cost is probably the biggest fear of people who are hesitant to buy an electric vehicle."
Exactly. It will never be a non-issue because batteries will continue to degrade over time. The point many EV advocates miss is that when that time comes you WILL need to replace them, and it WILL cost thousands of pounds (or dollars etc). That is not a concern you have with ICE cars because even if the engine does fail you can get a replacement relatively cheaply, and the cars also cost less to begin with, so it's less of a loss later on.
The problem here is this is likely to be when they become more environmentally unfriendly, because it means more cars will be scrapped sooner than their equivalent ICE models, not necessarily because they are not fit for purpose but because people are not going to take the chance on buying an old car which has the potential of needing new batteries. Because those people are usually the ones that can least afford it. Even if the tech proves reliable, it's still going to be a gamble.
On top of that, in Europe at least, the vast majority of new EVs are leased. Do you think those people who have them from new for three or four years are going to care about charging the battery correctly and not use it's full capacity because it may cause issues later on? No chance.
"battery health" in the context of a Tesla or any other electric vehicle typically refers to "battery degradation." Battery degradation describes the process where a battery's capacity to hold a charge diminishes over time and with use.
When you see a battery health percentage, such as 7%, it indicates the percentage of capacity that the battery has lost compared to when it was new. For example, if a Tesla Model 3 originally had a battery capacity of 100%, and its battery health now shows 93%, this means the battery has experienced 7% degradation (Tesla Updates) (EvsGuy) (Electrek).
Battery degradation is influenced by various factors, including:
Usage patterns: Frequent high-power use or deep discharges can accelerate degradation.
Charging habits: Regularly charging to 100% or allowing the battery to discharge completely can negatively impact battery health.
Environmental conditions: Extreme temperatures, both hot and cold, can accelerate battery wear.
I’m super curious to see how Tesla’s as a whole withstand the rigorous test of time. Wishing you and the Red Ranger another 5 years of good memories!
I've done 70k miles in 10 months in the freezing cold winter park city utah
I'm more curious about the competition. The Model S has held up pretty well. GM and Ford can't seem to figure out how to make EVs, period. 2 GM Hummer sold in a quarter, and only 20k Bolts for a car that should sell like hot cakes at that price range. It's definitely not because of demand. I think they just can't make them reliably and/or at a profit.
@Teddy M the only true competition to tesla is Hyundai, Kia and Nissan. Nissan being in the evening game longer
@James Sepulveda I see Hyundai/Kia, but I'm not sure about Nissan. They all need to build factories in the US for EVs, which will take some time. I don't think any of their cars qualify for the EV credit. The Ioniq looks good on paper, but the supercharger network and the software for those cars are horrible even with Carplay, IMO.
@@Teddy_M85 all said company above has better customer service and warranties than tesla.Tesla is questionable when it comes to warranty and customer service. Tesla is also dodging issues with quality build . The real turn off with tesla is they're practice in marketing that has gotten them some bad reputation. Many things tesla hides from public. They recently gave option to dual motor non performance model 3 to have a $2000 performance upgrade minus the brakes and have the same performance like that of their expensive brethren who paid a solid 18,000 more for the performance. Sure no performance brakes and useless 20 inch rims but they royally screwed their customers that is why the performance model 3's are doing poor in sales. Tesla is losing its luster.
I think he question is not only if something happens to the battery after warranty. The question is also what the „no warranty“ risk is doing to the used market price of the vehicle. At one point you say „should I buy the vehicle?“ - even if you sold the vehicle the state of the battery would be considered in the price you get.
This battery will last many more years, just keep this great car.
charging my electric toothbrush, charging my outdoor cam, charging my phones, charging my earbuds, charging my car, charging my labtop, charging my dog, charging my house, charging my wife, charging myself.
I hope you will be able to charge some children one day!