Crazy Looking Dual Output Ram Pump
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- Опубліковано 15 тра 2020
- Crazy looking dual output ram pump. I starting thinking that it might be nice to deliver water to two different hills at the same time. What if a ram pump could have two separate delivery pipes? Well that is just what is tested in this video.
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These pumps really work! Seth is super generous with his knowledge....he really is THE Ram Pump Guy. Go on....buy one.
Great Vids, keep on producing em!
Did you know if you turn the delivery pipe on slowly or just crack it a bit it will not stop the pump from working? Then after its running you can turn it on all the way. On large systems it will take you all day to prime the delivery line. Hope you find this tip useful :)
Hi Seth, love your work. This double ram pump will operate both sides equally, you just need to close the tap a little bit on the lower output. This reduces the pipe diameter and in turn increases pressure. I would suggest removing the sprinkler and measure the time it takes to fill a container. Closing the low pressure tap until both lines are equal pressure.
Excellent outcome. Thanks.
I had hoped for a little better but still shows that the ram pump can lift in two directions at once.
You are a great Hero for our World.. Thank You for sharing this Great Knowledge
You are the man these are the exact tests and videos I have been lookin for. Thanks for all the research! You have saved me so much time!!!
Nice! Happy to help. The channel has 130 ish ram pump videos.
quite an investigation you do. Kudos. The best videos I found regarding RAM pumps. Will use it in Mindanao on our farm.
Love these ram pump videos.
Another idea: How about one pump, but split the delivery pipe with a T and a pair of check valves to test if that makes the delivery height in one hose not affect the flow in the other hose?
Thank you for the video. I have a question, is it possible to run two or more pumps in series to have a higher overall head? Where the size of the third pump must be sized to give enough water, the first two will be oversized of course.
I enjoyed this experiment.
Thank you so much for doing the testing for us! I know it cost you money to train us!! Supposed to be the other way around!
You could figure a system to balance backpressure on your output lines, that would be the only way to get equal output at differing heights.
You have a single pump pushing water to a dual pump, you need to do a dual pump at the bottom to supply enough water to power both pumps up top
very interesting what is the best ratio on accumulator and volumn.. wouldit make sense to insulated to stop loss of heat on the air compressing....??
Great results! Remember the math I sent you with the ram pump efficiency equation? That predicts exactly this behaviour: Lower lift height => higher pumping flow rate vs. higher lift height => lower pumping flow rate. Math and physics always win!
Is Bernoulli's principle somewhere in there? I suck at math, but it seems like that would apply here somehow.
@@deepblueyonderspage No, that is just energy conservation: The energy of a lot of flowing water will be concentrated onto less water, what then can be pumped to higher elevation. Bernoulli's principle basically says that the sum of static pressure (like the normal air pressure) and dynamic pressure (pressure that is generated by a flow like wind in air) is constant. That is the priciple what make planes fly.
Longer/skinnier hose vs. shorter/fatter hose.....
The amount of water weight on each side must be equal to have equal output.
Make sure you have the same length/diameter hose on each side. If one side must go further - use a thinner hose/tubing. You can go further and with less water in the tube it will give less resistance and be comparable to the shorter/fatter hose.
The goal for equal distribution is to have equal WEIGHT of water pushing back against the split.
Jeff at Gridlessness sent Me and I'm looking forward to seeing all your videos.
Best of luck ! -KJ
Would this work inside a shore well (using single output)? Water well would be at same level as house - about 75-100" away.
what about using gallon glass jugs. and can u pump extra air into the accumlators.
Just a thought, can you use the pump to build pressure, i.e. water is not pushed up at all, the aim be to fill a pressure tank?
What if you installed a 15psi pressure regulator between the delivery coupling and the pressure tank, wouldn't that maitane the pressure differance at least to 15 psi height at the hose end and give you more volume per hammer strike
what would happen if you joined the outlets from your double pump to one hose. Would you get either more lift, more pressure or more volume of water. Or maybe the same
I suspect your lift would be reduced by a factor of 2. You can’t get the same flow rate out if the two output are at two altitudes. But I love this, never seen it before. A great way to fill a water tank from a creek and minimize the use or load on any kind of electrical pump if you even need one...such as an offgrid shower or whatever. Your flow rate out is gonna be based on the height of the output line versus the pump. The input is inertia pressure pulse based on ur weight of the water and speed of the water in your pump inlet pipe. I can’t wait to try it.
That is a great video! I may have another idea for you to try out.... How about using a ram pump to feed water back up to the bucket and that way you don’t waste as much water! You would have to hook it up to the check valve. I am always interested in finding things that you make it work for you instead of you working for it!!! lol
Thank you. So when you increase the height of the waste valve it reduces the head pressure. If you were to take the waste water all the way back to the bucket the head pressure would be zero and the pump would not run. That waste water is necessary. BUT I do hope to run a pump from a pump. That is one way to reuse water.
Y from feed, 2 check valves (one set slightly higher to stagger the waves - increases flow and maintains pressure), 2 pressure cylinders, Y out to a selectable splitter.
Then you can feed 2, or double feed one.
can u test what happens if u hook the wastevalve up to a hose which makes a big drop? it will make starting the pump hard but the generated vacuum in the hose might make it more efficient.
Nice job! Quick question: why not put a whose on the pump for the waste valve to a pond/pool/down hill so that it doesn’t flood the play area? Does it affect in any way the valve?
And now I’m thinking about it, wouldn’t tha vacune produced by the whose in the waste valve make the valve work better all toguether?
I am just learning about the pumps would a larger supply pipe help with better water flow?
instead of an innertube in the pressure tank, could you put in a valve to pressurize air pressure in tank? Would more pressure lift better?
Thanks, for the video! Now, I don't have to try that myself!
Yes! Happy to help. Looks like water is still going to find the easy way out.
@@LandtoHouse +¹¹
What if you used a tapered hose coming out of the ram pump so at the top of the hill the output pipe would be at its thinnest. would the pressure be higher?
But I love the stuff you doing Dude Very Very Cool 5 thumb ups.... Your Schooling people...!!!
Hello! May i know what is the ratio between the waste water and the water being collected in your storage tank? Simply put how much water can be collected for a 100 liter discharge?
What If you have a pressure Tank on the waste valve? Would you be able to Pump water without any waste (Loss)?
Thank you for testing different configurations. It seems unlikely that all ram pumps are perfectly balanced with their component parts.
- Do you have any idea if the total water out of both hoses was more or less than would have been delivered with just one expansion tank and delivery hose?
- I saw the video where you filled a tank and then ran a Wobbler with a gravity feed. Were you able to run the mini wobbler when it is the only output from your ram pump.
I have two of the regular Wobblers, I think I better see if I can get a couple of the mini wobblers.
Dave
Love your vids. If you had single hose up to carport/highground then the splitter on the hose perhaps gravity pressure would make outputs equal???
What if you put a water wheel on the waste water side to recap some of the energy from the waste water pressure for a low power application or to trickle charge a battery?
Loop the pvc to balance pressure and then attach your hose bibs on the loop!
Do the same thing you’re doing just make a circle that connects that will loop and equalize pressure and have two hose bibs coming out the pvc circle
Ah, this is what I was asking you about a year ago. Now what were to happen if you combine the outputs together? Would you get double the water output? Double the pressure?
what about having two valves sitting after the Y -Piece meaning 2 Ram Pumps using just one delivery pipe?
If you wanted to have more pressure and a higher GPM You could probably use a bigger intake pipe, or maybe use a 55gal drum, to create more back pressure
Hahaha! Genius! Didn’t even need to start watching to see the genius!
Haha not sure any idea of mine classifies as Genius. But this one was fun.
Concept and application is not only unique but applicable for water distribution.
Yes it is a great tool for water distribution.
Ram pumps have been around for decades and are used all over the world. But, yes, they're very useful.
Yes for sure. I am happy that they are becoming more popular again in the USA.
How about 2 drive pipes, 1 waste valve and 2 pressure tank connected to one delivery pipe
i was thinking near the same thing; 2 drive pipes, 2 check valves and 1 or 2 pressure tanks. Would this then theoretically double the flow rate?
Add 2 pressure valve at the 2 ends of delivery section, doing so it equalises both sections to receive same amount of water flow.
Seth, what about using two input lines from the same stream? Maybe one intake up 10 feet or so further leading to two separate ram pumps that feed into one output line. Wouldn't that create more water pumped at a faster rate in the same output line? If that sounds crazy, sorry. Just my brain working in overdrive. lol
Have you built any larger ones with say double the size of everything ?
Cool. If you keep increasing the height of the delivery pipe (where the water is going up hill) does the pump shut down due to too much back pressure or does it keep hammering away but just not putting water out. For example with 4 ft of head and a delivery pipe up the hill of 100 feet. Thanks for the videos.
I think your input volume of water would need to be equal to or greater than the two outputs combined (hose/pipe diameters).
Just placed a big tank at highest elevations and back flow it as needed. The ram pump can keep filling the tank 24/7.
You said 1 ft of fall lifts 7ft, what if you have larger or smaller pipes and larger or smaller pressure chamber? What would be a way to create a high flow rate with a small feed fall of around 1 ft/ 2ft..Would you increase the size of the pipes As I only need to lift around 7ft but require a rather large flow rate?
Have you considered collecting rooftop water to water your high ground around the house?
I wonder how many ram pumps you can run (in series) before losing all your water.
Say, if I used the Ram Pump to bring water up to a tank beside my house and instead of using sprinklers as it passes my garden, using ram pumps to keep the flow going up hill.
Hi Seth, What do you think about a circular-flowing ram-pump that continualy feeds a water-wheel electicity generator? - example: Large holding-tank at top feeds a water-wheel style generator (maybe high-pressure to run generator-wheel not needed this way?), leftover water feeds down to ram-pump, then gets fed back up to the holding-tank that opens at a set capacity to feed waterwheel once full. Has this been covered?
I was thinking the Same but I want to use a Kelvin Generator with No moving parts and a Marks Generator to step Up the volts
does the inside diameter of the pipe make a difference in flow rate
if you partly close the tap on the side it prefers it should start to feed equal
I watch a lot of these. I was wondering, a while back you did a video on too long a feed pipe. You said you had to add a stand pipe the same height as the source. What if you put a pressure tank there instead to shorten your "wave" travel.
I have tested a long drive pipe on 1/2" pump. It slows the cycles way down. I am thinking that perhaps a non return valve or a tank like you suggest would be fun to try.
If you make the pump itself bigger will it help
I think that the Y split the shock wave and absorb a part of it.
Why use this type of ram pump instead of one with 2 outputs.
On both you put a faucet to adjust back pressure on both hoses.
i wished you could make a video where you could make more flow
i bought the 3/4 from seth the pumps are amazing, pumping water up approx 83 ft and a distance of 950 ft using 1/2 pex works great, question for seth is have you tried 2 pumps tied to 1 delivery to increase flow volumn
Thank you for the great feedback! Yes I have tried that. It does increase the volume output. You can check that video out here: ua-cam.com/video/oKQiWIje-zM/v-deo.html
If you could run a ram pump under water, could you potentially make it so water goes high enough to feed back to the source? I know this sounds impossible from a physics perspective.. Thoughts?
What would happen if you put a pressure valve (like a car tyre valve) into of pressure tank to manually increase pressure to tank?
This would be defeating the purpose of the pump... You would be pumping up the pump..
I've noticed the Pressure Wave ("PW") has to first hit the "Tee" fitting then it hits the 45° fitting before going through last check valve. Do you know how much of the PW is absorbed by the Tee and 45° prior to hitting the last check valve? It would seem to me there is a loss trying to navigate those fittings. Like a bullet, the PW needs to hit that last valve full force on it's return meaning the last valve needs to be aligned with the driver pipe.
The PW in plastic pipe is considerably much slower. The sonic velocity is also the speed at which the PW generated by water hammer travel in the pipe. For water in very stiff pipes the sonic speed could be as high as 1,480 m/s. But in some plastic pipe the wave speed can be lower than 200 m/s. That's a 86% loss of wave speed in a plastic pipe vs. steel pipe.
Thomas M. Dutkiewicz
Could you put a small water turbine inline to generate electricity?
I noticed that you have a 90 degree split to the two pumps. Would that be causing inefficiency? What if you made it a 45 degree or similar split so it doesn't run into that wall?
I guess it's called a y split connector?
Great video but there is a couple things you could've do to increase the water pressure. Thanks
1--1 bad ram pump vids...ty for trying something new :)
however... i was hoping ud have the math...
i have 3/4 poly line from a well @ 12ft drop (*grav feed) but 550 length. i need to know if it will run a ram pump. what size out put and at what height and length will it pump. i need to lift it 18 ft high @ 50 ft long . NE1 know if im wasting my time and money?
If I want to move water from a pond up to a biological filter and the water will overflow to a waterfall and back to the pond. Can a ram pump be a answer to it or do you have any other idea? Thanks for the inspiration. :)
The 2 different pressures will always cause one to have more water than the other. Every 1 ft of rise = .433 PSI lost. Lower pressure will reduce volume correspondingly.
When and why did change the placement of the one-way valves? It was valve tank valve!
If the two delivery pipes where of equal length and equal height, is the output better than a single pump?
That is a good question. Probably would not matter the length as long as you tested with equal height
How can we buy for that matrials ready to assemble
What about two waste valves after the y? Sure it'll be double water waste... But in your creek not an issue? Basically two pumps off one drive pipe.
Most applications... I'm sure a trickle will be fine. Run sprinkler from header tank etc
You "D" man! Hey, I have this configuration that I was hoping to learn if you could recommend a RAM pump for me. Here it is:
1) Length of Fall from the beginning of my waterfall to the bottom of pool is 45.7 feet.
2) Pump lift from stream elevation to destination is 1000 feet.
3) Distance of pump to water tank is 1320 feet.
4) Flow rate of stream is moderate at around 400 gallons per minute
Would you (could you) recommend a Seth-styled RAM pump or should I be looking at a Bunyip Pump?
Thank you for your awesome videos. I watch as many as I can and they have been amazingly helpful.
from my research its for every 1 ft of drop it gets u 12ft lift... if its a good ram pump
I know nothing about it, but I am guessing that you might be able to use "Bernoulli's Principle" to accurately figure out the limitations of your split system... to tell you the exact height differential at which one side would completely stop operating over the other side.
Where to get ram pump valve
Sir, water is 300 meters away from my house and the height is only 70 meters. How much pump should be for this and how high should this pipe be for the water that comes to the pump? I am watching your video from Pakistan.
Great work 👍👍👍 I like it, here you did it in parallel connection . I am curious If you Try it in seriese with these combinations
1) one waste valve then two Pump in seriese.
2)one waste valve then one small pump then one bigger pump in seriese.
3) one waste valve then big Pump then small pump in seriese.
4)one waste valve then Pump then 2nd waste valve then 2nd pump in seriese ( both pump same size).
5)one waste valve then one small Pump then 2nd waste valve then 2nd big pump in seriese.
6)one waste valve then big Pump then 2nd waste valve then 2nd small pump in seriese.
I think 5th no combination will give more pressure.
I'm from Brazil, and I found your channel very interesting, is there a way to do the Egyptian pyramid test? the pyramid talks about an Aries bomb too
What if you use only one walve write behind the stainles steel valve? Well I think it will be the same issue.
Yes I have another video showing that water will travel up hill with the least resistance.
What would happen a f you put a a waste valve on top of the waste valve
how about 2 drive pipes, 2 waste valve, 2 pressure tank connected to a single delivery pipe? did you do an experiment like this?
Yes I actually have tried that. It increased the flow rate but not the lift potential.
@@LandtoHouse okay thanks for the reply. I will look for that video and watch it. thanks.
I am fairly confident if you wanted a little high pressure water, bleeding ram pump pressure into a second line as shown here would be a worthwhile investment of time.
But if you want to deliver half the water both ways? You are better off feeding a primary tank and running back to the lower area.
Wouldn't it be more efficient to use a wye instead of the tee?
Question:
What if you pumped the "waste" water back to the source bucket???
Source above ram pump # one
Waste valve water from # one flows down one-two feet to ram pump # two
Ram pump # two pumps back up to source bucket 😎
...
Vacuum valve that sucks up waste water from bucket ramp pump # two is sitting upon (like in the video about the mini electric generator output down hill flow creating suction)
They use this on moonshiners lol.
Yes someone sent that clip. Funny.
From what I understand if there is any debris on the input of your valve you will cause the pump to fail, is it worth using some type of filter to keep the valve pump and system clean?
Yes debris is a bad thing for the ram pump. I have a couple videos on the channel showing the two part filter system that I use.
Doesn't your feed line size needs to be twice the total out put size?
How about two valves in one pipe output? Will it create more pressure?
I have that test here on the channel. That increases flow rate but not pressure.
may be every air chamber need one waste valve, to get more water output,.,
What size check valve do you recommend?
The waste valve needs to match the size of the drive pipe. The pipe and waste valve determine the amount of water required to operate the pump.
Just put T connector on the original ram pump output . It would have same effect as this and would save on materials.
Every 2.31 feet of head pressure or 27 and 5/8 in. you will build head pressure by One psi. So every 27 and 5/8 inches you go up you add 1 psi
Water is similar to electricity in that it takes the path of least resistance. So in other words, a duel ram pump with a single input check valve is not the greatest ideal. What will happen if you have one pump running to a higher elevation, or somewhere which causes it to have more back pressure than the other ram, then all the water will pump thru the pump with less back pressure.
Even if you put 2 input check valves on the input, one for each ram, then it will still do the same thing. It will only kinda work ok IF both outputs causing the same back pressure on the input. In other words, having both outputs running to the same place, and same elevation, or at least different places BUT with the same elevation. OR you can allow the lower elevation output to run until you fill a container causing a head in the container to create enough back pressure(the input to the container would need to be at the bottom of the container) so it will match the back pressure on the higher elevation output, then it will automatically begin flowing thru the higher elevation output until it matches back pressure in the lower output, then it fills the container a little more until it matches pressure in the higher output again, then etc... etc...it keeps cycling. But in our reality both will appear to flow at the same time.
And if you are going to use them, put a Y connector not a T. You lose ram force hitting the T squarely, more energy is absorbed in the pipe. You will get a more energy from the wave form to pump up more pressure if you use a Y. More energy will more freely flow up those pipes, instead of ON the pipes. You are using a kinetic energy wave to supply the pump, for example it is like taking a hammer and hitting the wood not the nail when you let the wave crash into the pipes, instead of flow up the pipes. For example, if you had a vibration detector, you will detect more vibration of the pipes with the tee, and that is lost energy that otherwise would have been used to push water.
Great analysis. Hey do you determine the maximum distance and altitude to which this kind of pump can push water?
cool Gave me a great idea for building and testing a close system I.E All waste water return to the tank"" making easy to use a Ram pump mini hydro dam to power Any Brick and Mortar Building no running water/CREEK/RIVER NEEDED...!!!" JUST THE HIGHT OF THE Walls/Roof of the building your powering pvc ram pumps, tanks, Mini hydro Gen, and grid tie inverts
I think you are over watering your grass. LOL
HA just a little.
Hi Bro
Does Ram Pump work underwater?
How many meters can we put it under water?
Hey Seth, you have sparked a great idea based off of this test. I am going to email it to you. Please let me know what you think and if you would like to do a test in a video, with your current prototype just some of the parts swapped.