New Warhammer 40K Points Changes, are they Enough?
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- Опубліковано 3 лип 2024
- In this video we dive into the brand new Warhammer 40K Munitorum Field Manual v1.8 which is the latest document in which points values for units and enhancements are stated and changed.
We take a look at each faction and if they have had any changes and we give our opinion on if they are fair or needed more/less changes to allow the army to compete competitively.
Let us know in the comments your thoughts on your army changes? are you happy with them or not? and how do you feel the current 40K meta will shake up as a result of the changes?
Custodes and Ork changes we will take a look at on our Members Lounge which you will need to be a member of the channel and can watch using the link below:
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Check out the latest Munitorum Field Manual here:
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A massive thank you to Games Workshop for providing us the document early to be able to bring this content to you.
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Timestamps:
00:00 Start
01:19 Adepta Sororitas
03:04 Adeptus Mechanicus
04:50 Aeldari
07:17 Agents of the Imperium
08:34 Astra Militarum
11:26 Black Templars
14:37 Blood Angels
18:24 Chaos Daemons
20:00 Chaos Knights
21:06 Chaos Space Marines
23:10 Dark Angels
25:25 Death Guard
26:19 Deathwatch
26:58 Drukhari
27:51 Genestealer Cults
29:22 Grey Knights
31:06 Imperial Knights (check Chaos Knights)
31:16 Leagues of Votann
32:30 Necrons
37:54 Space Marines
42:04 Space Wolves
43:04 T'au Empire
43:51 Thousand Sons
46:03 Tyranids
49:25: World Eaters
51:42 List Analysis
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We have seen the comments regarding us not mentioning Orks and Custodes and we want to be honest here we left Orks and Custodes till the end when recording this video and Stephen had to leave mid recording which did mean we forgot to film them for this one video. We do apologise for this and we aren't trying to put this content behind a paywall it was just an honest mistake and we decided we could discuss the points on the members lounge as a result of this mistake. We will look at recording a separate video to compensate for this on all the codex points changes as a result of the MFM, we will likely roll this into a video with the T'au codex points too whenever they get released.
I believe World Eaters are missing as well
@@TheArmchairPatriot They covered the World Eaters right before the lists. It just isn't marked in the chapters of the video.
Lokhurst? That should probably be Lokhust Destroyer.
As an ork player I am, as usual, fine with anything. WAAAAAAGH!!
Gotta love how SM codex is still getting cucked because of the better divergent chapters.
Quick thing about sword bros 14:05 , the wargear is based on per 5, so youd get 2 hammers ect
Really glad for dark angels
While I'm glad with the units they did change, they still did nothing with the characters or ravenwing units.
Azrael is gonna sell. A net upgrade to most space marine armies
Why leave out custodes?
I dont think any of the admech changes are impactful enough to make them usable outside of maybe the ruststalkers which will just become another variety of tough for the points unit that you use to tie up the enemy without dealing any real damage in the SHC horde list
The units that saw points drops such as the ruststalkers or cawl or even robots were all expected and needed as they currently are. That said, admech as a whole, as has been repeated every balance change, does not want more points cuts but rather rules buffs to make the faction more viable in the meta rather than making a select few units more viable within the faction army.
It's pretty hard to say...
Cut points of Cawl ? Well, our arch magos just need something new to persuade me to put in list🤦🏻♂️
Cut points of Kastelan Robots ? Fair enough, but can be more🤔
The others ? Well, point is not their problem, so...yeah🤦🏻♂️
Love the list analysis at the end. Good Job lads.
As a Deathwatch enjoyer im screaming and crying rn
Its so frustrating!
I'm actually in disbelief that they got literally nothing.
Fortis and hellblasters are the same price
GW seems to be hating on melee armies.
I'm surprised they referred to imperial guard as a big baddie in the meta right now, their win rates aren't that stand out and they have less tournament wins then either Hypercrypt or Canoptek Court if you count them individually. I haven't really heard people talking about guard all that much recently.
Happy with the Votann changes. Only thing I wish they did was change Uthars rules to make him more viable.
My Custodes list actually went up 5 points because of the draxus and Calidus increase. The characters needed to go down a lot more seeing as they all had big nerfs. Also not touching forgeworld at all is just lazy.
Great run through by the team as always, as a deathwatch player, i'm holding out hope for a bit of a bigger update in the summer update. I think the fact the tournament scene isnt seeing many deathwatch specific units would suggest something needs to be done to entice players to take them.
BA nerfs are unnecessary, I get Death company was over played but that's because it was the only decent unit we had.
Yeah I understand you mate, death company being hit was just because they are being spammed but deffo not needed especially the amount they went up by
No, Death Company spam is obnoxious.
@@RadioEnnui You can't remove something without replacing it, if you get rid of death company then sang guard needs to come down to a more reasonable level to fill the void.
@@VT_Jord I would have been perfectly happy with the change if SG had dropped to be playable (they still arent) or we got some other hammer unit. Giving Meph the ability to lead bladeguard would have helped.
every model has a melta pistol and powerfist, pay your worth.
Some units for aeldari po8jts dont match with the app even with it updated
Clicked right on time. WE lez go!
Did world eaters get covered here? Cant seem to find the mention, wouldve like to see your thoughts 😊
It’s at the end of tyranids 👍
Ok nobody plays Deathwatch but still no changes to them Is nonsense.
Grey knights are basically 90% of the way to what I want for flavor.
I'm afraid of what the codex will do based on how GW has messed up factions with their codex's in 10th.
Being able to move a dreadnought with a transport if not the faction abilities would be a potent change. I mean how else do they arrive on a battle field if not in a thunder hawk since the faction doesn't have drop pods.
Improving leader options for basic marine units would be great! Letting me get a brother champion into interceptors or a tech marine in purgators would really broaden the potential of the faction.
Admech player since Early 9th Edition. Continually seeing the amount of money i need to keep spending to "fix" the army has pushed me to the brink. Dropping points repeatedly does not make me happy.
The army in 10th confused and doesn't know what i wants to do, 3 sub-factions within an army and an army rule that works on about 2/3 of my army is poorly designed. When i show up to a game with my friends, i spend twice as long on my chess clock, i am annoyed by having to move my horde army around.
Army rule is unhelpful and too many hoops to jump through before i can utilize them. Units should be better and more elite, points should be INCREASED. I shouldn't have to fix the army using my wallet, lowering points is not a solution here.
Sad I/O Noises...
Hard agree. I've been playing them since I started the game, which was with the release of 9th, so I played a lot of 8th ed rules too. I'm not a fan of the hordeification of the army, AND I didn't like that the paired identity with knights went away.
That being said, I also agree that only 3/4 of the army gets to use the army rule, so I've been bringing either 3 warglaives or a big knight as the last 1/4 of my army, and it's been fun. Not good, but fun.
Does Matt Lorah play for Vanguard Tactics?? From what I heard his behaviour during the LVO final was very much NOT in line with the VT ethos.
What I heard was that his opponent checked with Matt if he (opponent) had screened out his backfield 9" inches for a Monolith, Matt confirms and then on his turn drops the Monolith with the 3" stratagem. Honestly the VT ethos is worth nothing if this flies on your team.
I am happy with the Sister Changes. The list that I commissioned is Jeff Kolodner's list that he won Tampa with last year. Before this change the list was 1980 points. With these changes, I dont think it changed at all. Blade of Elen went up but Mortifiers went down. The only other affected unit on the list was the deathcult assassins. But that remaining 20 points available on the list could buffer that. So, there wont be any changes for me. Thank you guys for this in depth review.
How you finding Jeff's list, it looks a tricky one to play well.
@@divercunny I dont have the Army yet. The commissioned project just started this month. I just recently decided to get back into the hobby and due to some disabilities, I cant put them together and paint them myself so I went with a commission on the 2000 point army. I looked at alot of sister lists and even had the chance to talk to Mr. Kolodner himself on discord about his Tampa win from last year. I like this list out of all the ones i've seen, even recent Sister tournament winners. Once this project is done and I get the army, i'm thinking a couple months, I'm gonna be signing up for some VT courses so they can help me learn how to use the army. Until then, i'm just consuming all the content I can.
@@angelskyd great to hear you are getting back into the hobby! I was thinking of getting myself onto a VT course myself, I love the VT content and think they are an awesome group. I'm just learning Sisters myself and slowly building my army towards 2k. I've had a couple of games and absolutely love how they play, they are so much fun. I wish you all the best on your journey, your going to have so much fun 😊
@@divercunny Thank you so much. I'm very excited to see my commission being started. I really want to jump on VT courses as soon as possible, but I'm going to wait until I have my army in hand before I do, that way i can put into practice what I learn. I also believe VT is such a positive force in the community. I want to take their courses for the mass amount of knowledge I can get from them, but also just because I want to be a part of Stephens world. The guy is just pure awesomeness. I love his outlook on the game, his positivity and his sense of values.
@@angelskyd I totally agree. VT seem to promote exactly the type of culture I want to be associated with when I play 40k. 👍
Admech players don't care what GW's schedule says.
Here's the order of Admech being ignored for rules changes that were needed, blatantly obviously, since the start of the edition:
-September dataslate: No changes other than Skitarii saves (which were printed as such in the codex) because "you'll get your codex soon to fix yoy."
-November codex release: Didnt change army rule. Nerfed the only powerful combos from the index. Army still dysfunctional.
-January dataslate: No changes at all because "it's too soon since your codex."
-April MFM: Point reductions to useless units which are mostly still ueless. No rules changes "because we didn't have a dataslate scheduled."
-July (?) dataslate?? Supposedly rules changes in the works, whicu GW couldn't be arsed to release this month for players to actually test?
This is a full YEAR since the edition began and it became obvious Admech was a broken, hot garbage army that GW had given the intern an afternoon to write and then shit out the door to the printers. A YEAR.
Im sorry but theres no excusing this. It is neglect, and it's awful customer relations.
GW have shown a willingness to buck the trend for other armies. They changed Death Guard and Votann detachment rules very early into the edition. They gave Drukhari an entire new detachment. They have changed datasheets and rules for others, but whenever Admech has been raised it's "not the right time."
Enough is enough. Whether or not they had a dataslate planned, Admech should have been given rules changes. Make an exception. Nothing else in the dataslate, just Admech, because it is OWED. "Just wait another 3 months" is not an acceptable outcome when that's been the response from GW three previous times for Admech.
World Eaters players didn’t even get a shout out!
Wow… really doesn’t look like it’ll change the top armies much.. Agree overall with your views here.
I Hope that the drop in points places incentivizes players to take different units and mix up the meta that way.
A rules change is necessary I’d say for Admech, Custodes and Ironstorm. IMO he “Shoot Back” Strat in Ironstorm could be 2CP.
Am so glad I’ve kept my CSM army as their Vindicator is the absolute winner from the points decrease with Mark of Nurgle! Plus as so glad can now use again my possessed units with Mark of Slaneesh/Undivided
Love the content guys and watching more and more of your stuff. Just one thing...Stephans bias is definitely showing with Black Templars. They are a very strong army and needed to be hit in a way that didnt hurt space marines who are much weaker. You give a very fair overview but defo have rose tinted glasses with the BT imo.
Ton of Ork Trukks mate :D
What about Orks?
I'm content with the ad mech points dropping. More excited for the rules change coming in the summer
as an admech player... I'm overall happy with the changes. I think. I would have like to see drops in units that I really can't justify paying for, like the planes and the hounds, but other than that its ok.
THOUGH, in a perfect ideal world, I wanted to see them go up in points, but have some corresponding rules upgrades to go with them. I would like to see them de-horded, and get some BS, weapon Str, and or AP back. Not a ton, but enough that the lore of them being the gun makers make sense.
Love the drops for the Dark Angels, especially companions and Lion. I still don't think you should be taking Azrael with them, as the combination with Hellblasters is too good to ignore - who also got cheaper too.
At 300 points, I think we may see Lion a little more often.
As a Necron player, I'm glad Deathmarks and Flayed Ones went down. Also glad to see Skorpekh Lord and Destroyers go down too. Might play the Annilation Legion
I play deathgaurd, daemons, and chaos knights, I feel a little left out.
I play both Daemons and knights and I feel you lol, but it's a slight positive that my lists doesn't need to be redone
sad your army is balanced? youre a bitch
I play CK as well, and while I'd liked to have seen some point decreases, I'm just happy we didn't get nerfed again for war dogs being taken as allies.
Even with the pts increase on the sword bros I think they are still viable as a 10 mam unit plus they don't die as quick if you yoyo out of a land raider with the emperors champion leading one unit and helbrecht leading another r
Why is the Assault Terminaotor Squad more expensive than the regular one? You surely have 1 more would but no range weapon, weaker ability, and the close combat isn't significsntly bettter. What am I missing?
Assault termi were cheaper early this edition but the first munitorum changed that into assult termi being better
So many weird takes in this video. Guard are the big baddie of the meta? The unplayed russes going down is "shocking" black templar vehicles going up was needed. 5 points more for a wildly better vehicle. There was just no decision point. And a "Black Templar" player that doesnt know sword bretheren weapon options are per 5.
Hey did you know Admech got MORE FUCKING EXPENSIVE? Let's just keep going to $2 for 1 point!
Plus side of admech changes - I can bring more units in my army! Down side - I have to buy more expensive miniatures to field a full army.
Love'd the video gentleman. I'm not too happy with the cost for C'tan. I still think they are way too powerful for sub 300 especially when compared to all other units at that price. All not too stoked about the Guard. Seeing that the car park is still probably the most viable list doesnt feel good to play against.
Mi college plays 3 C'tan. They're fucking unkilleable and hit like a truck
The marine changes felt a bit off. Like I don't think the marines we op. Some of the builds are easier to abuse then others yes. But the points changes just felt unnecessarily harsh
trash changes to ad mech, my competitive admech list went up 10 points. None of the pointdrops makes you want to play those units. Needed to go down ~20-30 points more per unit that went down to be justifiable. That's how bad they are.
Disappointed Custodes didn't get a mention 😢
Custodes points change isn't that grand. Blade champion is 100pts and traj is 10pts cheaper.....
10pts is not worth the fights first and the 4+ against dev wounds
whats there to mention? Garbage toiletpaper codex is unplayable for at least half a year now. Stop giving these jokers your money!
@@Pyriel2 youre a clown, why are you watching this junk then moron?
@@Pyriel2 youre here watching this video and making those kinds of comments, youre insanely stupid.
@@Pyriel2 and that's exactly what I wanted them to say. Not mentioning it at all is just denying the problem.
Hello gents! Missed most of the game due to different time zone, but for what it's worth - Go Deathwatch! Will watch the whole thing after the end of streaming I guess...
Did I miss world eaters??
would like to see better demons coverage. points issues i think are with battleline troops, bloodletters, daemonettes and plaguebearers should be considered for points reduction
I'll comment on Deathwatch. Shafted. Again.
Woof…. Admech gets it rough yet again… points drops are not what they needed and it’s pretty telling that they don’t intend on upping the power now that they dropped points Again..
I hope I’m wrong though!
They mentioned in the article they are testing new rules for them
Vindicator dropping 15 is a very concerning sign of rotation also
Is it me, or did they drop points in a lot of combat patrols?
Do you think Armies like Dark Angels need some proper rules changes on their units, example would be deathwing knights say their weapon profiles need abit of a buff imo for me to even consider working them into my list… Azrael is never leaving his hellblasters that came down, and i’m so non plussed about the inner circle companions who are frankly fragile for what they are and no where near punchy enough to justify it still and that’s all rules stuff… i think Crons will be totally fine, wraiths will still haunt peoples nightmares… oh and back to the dark angels again for a second lion is 5pts more than a nightbringer… he’s also massively less impactful in a game really cause he never has hit hard enough really to handle the heavy lifting that any other primarch level character does and he lacks sticking power beyond hitting first… and his sweep is shamefully terrible… needs a total rules rethink on that guy… he’s lore wise meant to be the most competent and ferocious combat general the imperium ever had widely acknowledged as by all the other primarchs… maybe they could give him more significant buffing abilities, or an ignore modifiers rules kinda like morty. That’s my take anyways… happy they didn’t touch Az… he was making the while thing viable… but as it stand its tanks speeders, dreds and flyers with tech lads to do any heavy lifting…
My word! How much do you want a Manticore to go up?! They’ve been hit with points increases the last 3 Field Manuals!
No custodes?
300pts lion is very interesting, with the game ceiling getting more even now lion can actually trade favourably into other units
He dies to easly, especialy with no protection from devastating wounds. Maybe if he had lone op or had some def ability like the ctan , or even his old -1D rule back.
@@piotrjeske4599 well he does has lone ops in the right situation and a 3++. That should be enough most of the time depend on match up
12 leman russ, proper armoured fist. 😊
Greg Knights are already high in points then we keep going up besides units hardly anyone plays besides strike
This increase is pretty accurate for everything that's overperforming. And everyone uses strike squads, and the Dreadknights got better WS on all their weapons last update.
I'm still winning the majority of my fights as GK, can't say the same for my sisters of battle though...
how are you disappointed in templars with their winrate xD like wtf, PSB and crus squads are a steal still for the points given the insane dmg output. What can i have, bladeguards? :D :D
Is there going to be a new Balance Dataslate out as well with it?
No just points
Bt got off light for sure.
I don't think so, as the issue wasn't really BT. RC was starting to struggle and probably will drop out of 45% now. These nerfs just make Ironstorm pivot. They just move onto the normal SM variants or go to Dark Angels. They need to nerf the Ironstorm detachment directly.
Taking 3 Black Templar Gladiator Reapers and 3 regular Gladiator Reapers is actually not right. In the Battle Forge you can only pick the Black Templar one. So taking 6 is in fact cheating. They are not two different datasheets.
You can if you take any of the detachments in the Space Marine Codex. I just checked in the app too, change it to one of them and then you can. It most definitely shouldn't be a thing though
Yeah that's busted, prepare for Gladiator kits to be available nowhere for awhile
Not at all. It's janky but very much legal.
@@tonybayer2546It's been a known thing for a good while now, Reapers are good but more than 3 of anything is pretty redundant
If you take Righteous Crusaders detachment you can't take the regular Gladiators, but you can if you take a Vanilla SM detachment, hence you CAN take 3 Regular Lancers and 3 BT Lancers. It is legal
I think it's a real shame you decided to exclude the Orks and Custodes content. I do understand that you have a business to run and that you having paying customers who also want valuable content. I don't want to be overly negative but just to offer some honest feedback. It's a real feels bad and quite out of character for you guys who I've always had down as some the absolute best content creators and community leaders.
Hey dude, I want to be honest here we left these two factions till the end when recording and Stephen had to leave mid recording which did mean we forgot to film them for this one video. We do apologise for this and we aren't trying to put content behind a paywall it was just an honest mistake and we decided we could discuss the points on the members lounge as a result of this mistake. We will look at recording a separate video to compensate for this on all the codex points changes as a result of the MFM, we will likely roll this into a video with the T'au codex points too whenever they get released.
Feels like you guys missed the realty that wraiths effectively went up almost 10% 305 points up from 280 for a unit that hits like a wet noodle. Compare wraiths at 305 points vs TWC. Damage wise it's not even close and still close durability on a character that only has 4w with a 4+ save.
I try really hard to feel bad for custodes but I honestly have been laughing a lot hearing about there changes
One of the flakiest fanbases I've ever seen.
I love your stuff Stephen, but oppressive is not the right word to use when describing a unit that is minorly point costed wrong. Oppressive refers to external conditions that exert unjust or harsh burden on individuals wellbeing. I love ya brother, but need to keep this in the context of tabletop games, while the variety of units and unique strengths is cherished and provide strategic depth and interesting gameplay. Stagnation prevention is a big part of the variety in list building composition. Balancing a wargame should be there to create an even playing field where skill determines the outcome. Diverse, powerful units and flexible list building are tools to achieve this balance, not oppressive elements.
Another data update driven by janky competitive lists 🙄 Competitive gaming is a plague
Can we drop the Dark Angels being a Chaos faction? The joke is old and as a DA player myself I am getting tired of hearing it