It’s so impressive to see how much you’ve grown over the last 4-5 years I’ve been watching you. Not only has your musical intelligence skyrocketed, but also your confidence and ability to speak. You’re an inspiration man. I hope everyone can see you in the light that I do
I use that third method a lot, going around the circle of 5ths. Once I start to feel comfortable going all the way around the circle I'll set up a "play along tack" running through the chord changes. That way I get forced to shorten the recall time to fit in time with the backing track.
Definitely hoping this becomes a series. Easily could be what I look forward to the most and there is a lot to do with it. You could revisit this exact same thing in a week and see how you've retained, redo the 3 methods and then see the results after that. Or just next short term pit the winner of this ep against 2 new ones. A lot of good stuff here!
The reason why your piano runs felt so underwhelming on the following day is the socalled "Penelope effect". We forget a good portion of what we learned over night so to speak. Thats also good because we dont only forget the good stuff but also the mistakes we made. So lets say we played something 10 times (7 good, 3 bad) and we forget 6 tries chances are good we forget all 3 bad versions and remember the good attemts. Also: when the muscles get tired and we continue to practice we learn to play with exhausted muscles - in concert we try to play fresh and relaxed. You might see what I mean... The body builder comparison doesnt work because we dont train for strenght or muscle mass but agility, presicion and flexibility. Sure endurance is importaint but is see it more like walking all day instead of lifting all day.. I'm clarinet teacher by training and study sax atm so I'm not the pinacle of wisdom but maybe that helped.. last word should be one of praise: great video!! I always wondered how that would go and now I dont have to try it myself but can profit of your experiment. thanks! interesting video
im a 7th grade alto sax player trying to get into all-state. your videos have not only encouraged but also provided helpful insight for the saxhopone. Thank you so much!
I play upright bass and ever since I‘m not studying Jazz anymore and don‘t have as much time to practice the instrument, I noticed that it takes me far less time to learn new tunes, lines or whatever. So I learned that, for me personally at least, it is all about not practicing for 3-4 hours straight but playing for 30 min to 1 hour and just repeat things over and over again. The first 30 min to 1 hour can be uncomfortable but the next day feels much better. I guess my body needs time to get use to the new tune since the upright bass is such a physical instrument and hard to play.
Interesting video! I felt the same way about practicing the Mario Kart lick. I played it an almost infinite amount of times before it clicked. What made it click was breaking it down into sections. Instead of practicing the line from start to finish I practiced each section on its own. Then when each section was good I put them together and the muscle memory clicked and I was able to play it no problem.
From all I've learned about the learning process (which is quite a lot; I'm a qualified teacher and I've spent a lot of my time reading up learning, analysing my own learning etc.) I've recently concluded that 'feeling the burn' inside your head, and feeling worn out and hungry at the end of the session, is the single most significant factor in good learnin'. Really glad to watch this video, certainly affirms that view, especially when you said that the 3rd session hadn't been that long but felt like ages. When we're learning a lot we tend to percieve time as being slower (hence why your childhood was so long; taking in new stuff all the time). Anyway, I think it's time I actually applied this to my practice rather than doing junk reps like a fucking mug. Thanks again for this man.
I just listened to a podcast, and they looked at a study about practicing, and the study found that the more times you play a passage correctly at any tempo, the more it will retain.
@Keanan_ he means just his preset. It’s probably set to a larger tip opening and chamber than what you’d see in classical. I don’t remember their website fully but I think you might be able to answer questions of what type of music you’re looking to play and then they guide your mouthpiece making from there. Most of their stuff I see is jazz though, but there are a lot of great classical hard rubber mouthpieces out there
Honestly on my own, I use the first method because that’s what they teach you from the time you’re in 6th grade until high school, but I have noticed that it’s not working all the time. Since it’s, yknow, solo and ensemble picking season, I’m trying to get my solo and I was just looking for a better way to practice it so I actually might just split it into sections and try out the 3rd method, so thank you!
A couple of the principles in the Fundamentals of Piano Practice (free, online on the web) is 1. on learning the notes, always play slow* but 2. on practicing your hand movements, play "fast" as soon as possible and 3. always play through your mistakes and fix them on the next repetition. It also recommends you to break down fast passages into chord-like chunks ("parallel sets") since a chord attack is technically infinite speed and it's a lot easier to go down from infinity-to-fast rather than slow-to-fast. I put "fast" in quotes since you technically can play "fast", but slowly; this is the equivalent of simulating how to run but in 50% speed. You kinda have to break down how exactly how your limbs move at full tempo and practice that carefully so you don't make bad habits. *also don't rely on your muscle memory, actually memorize the notes fully and let your muscle memory develop around it. muscle memory is a lot more temporary in the short-term and will generally harm memorizing the notes long before it truly kicks in in the long-term and you can play without thinking about it as much.
Thank you Nathan, your experiment was really interesting and I'll try the last method and see if it works for me. I really like this kind of content, please make more 🙏
Nice video. I have watched quite a few of your's and they are always interesting. I wanted to mention something that really helped me develop my "bop" chops. You may or may not get use out of it. I noticed you kept saying "the 6th of the minor ii is" ... While you are correct, there is a more simple way to look at it. I would think of this as the 3rd of the V chord. In fact, I would analyze everything over the ii chord as if it's the actual V chord. I've learned that pretty much everything in bop is V to I. The ii chord is just an extension of the V chord (D minor is an extension of G7 starting on the 5th chord tone of G7). This allows my brain to move faster through changes. Also, you can then start to just super impose V to I, V t I, V to I anywhere you want. I think it was Branford or someone that said there is no ii chord in Be-Bop, and I've really found this to be true in many ways. Sorry for the long comment and it may not prove useful, but you seem like the kind of guy that would appreciate trying to look at it from another vantage point.
I love the way you think about things. One thing I've found though is that when practicing phrases in all keys, each key gets successively easier because your ears and mind is more in tune with what you're playing. I understand it better by key #12 and it's easier for that reason alone.
Cool experiment! I know you talked about the variables and stuff, but a big one to eliminate if you try this again might be switching the order you did the methods in. Recalling the most recent four keys you did before the recap of all 12 keys could be a big part to the method performing better, maybe not. It’d be cool to see!
This is great! It's cool that you actually thought of conducting this experiment, And also actually did it! That's a lot of mental hard work man! This is a question that always bothered me but I'd never consciously manage to tackled it. So thank you for all of your Great work! Peace from Israel
I love psychology of the practice and learning. If you are practicing, and your mind starts to wander, it is your brain escaping from the pain that the practice takes to the brain. Basically, your brain is being taken out of its comfort zone, that means, it is being put under presdure, which it interprets as pain. You should never mind-wander when practicing.
Thanks for sharing your experience with this. I thought about spaced repetition while I listened, had heard about that being used more when learning languages. Makes sense that it would apply with music as well.
Love your channel, your excitement level, teaching ability and mainly the fact you dig Bird and have humor! I hope that you have read Ross Russell's incredible book, "Bird Lives".. it is a stand alone book of the highest caliber...be prepared to almost break out into a cold sweat after reading the first kinda intro chapter, "Obligato at Billy Bergs." You will never forget this book. Further, you will wish Ross Russell had written every biography you ever read. I know you said you were lazy in this vid... please don't be lazy about reading this book...you'll thank me someday ole Top. Peace from Texas.
I'm taking a class on human memory systems this quarter, if there's one thing I've learned in that class so far it's that the #1 most productive moment for committing these to *long term memory* (as opposed to short term memory as you tested here) is 15:05-15:08 and moments like it xD You can basically "learn how to remember" generally, and also separately "learn how to remember" specific things. Like anything else, you need to practice something to get better at it, so if your goal is to remember something, you don't need to practice that thing so much as you need to *practice remembering* that thing Love the videos by the way can't want to see u hit 100k subs!
Was this a long term experiment? Just kidding, I love this video, thank you very much! As a viewer it's much more valuable to go through an experiment with the UA-camr, instead of getting answers presented with long, more or less comprehensible explanations.
I used something similar to method 3 on a specific charlie parker lick as a warm-up. I played the lick at 3 speeds (REALLY slow, medium swing, and slightly uncomfortable) but i would take it through all 12 keys and not let myself go back and fix things or let the mind dwell on the mistakes before going on to the next speed. It was more about moving the fingers and trying to hear what comes next. very therapeutic and meditative.
Thanks for the vid. I wonder if it’s placebo though, but I think you’re right though with the feeling comfortable with reps thing, repeating them doesn’t help in the short term. I think though it can vary a lot more, even with how you practice individual reps you have variables like tempo and changing up the rhythm.
I often do a combination of 1 and 3 I guess. I'm not a jazz musician but a classical musician (french horn), but when I practice an etude I often practice a phrase(/bar/measure/etc) until it is just comfortable, then I move on to the next. After I've done a few of these chunks I move back to the first one again, until it's just comfortable, cycle through them all again. I keep doing this until I can do them all on the first try and feel in control about it. Usually the next day I have to go down a few beats on the metronome but get back to where I was quickly, and then build up further again.
I feel like the whole "practice it in all 12 keys" idea is sort of lost on guitar, due to how the instrument is built and the fact that the fingerings stay mostly the same in most places, but I like your findings and I shall try out a version of this practicing technique :)
@@matthewharrison7868 yeah, I think it's way more symmetrical, and I might give it a shot myself, I heard Stanley Jordan uses it aswell. My only problem is if I had to detune other's guitars if I played them, eh, it won't hurt trying both I guess!
Great video, but I do think that you did better with the third method because of what you learned in the first two practice methods. Yes, I know that it's a new set of fingerings, but you already get around the instrument well. I think the earlier practice helped you internalize the melody so well that you could sit down at the piano and figure it out in 12 keys pretty quickly. Would love to see you experiment with a new line and do the third method first and see how it goes. Thanks for sharing!
Great video! I’m been wondering about the effectiveness of my piano practice time, so this subject would be an interesting series. Also, I love your weird humor. 🤪
Again, non-saxophonist bassist back to praise your videos again. I’ll be back every time btw❤️ Do you think the outcome of the third method would have been different if you had done 11keys at once? Do you think it was especially effective because you broke it down into three parts and cycled through the bite-sized four keys at a time? 🤔
I am not sure! I’ve tried it before. I think it just boils down to what you would rather to! I think all of it works, as long as your brain is thinking.
Cool video Nathan. I'd like to suggest an alternative to the cycle of fifths (once you are really comfortable with it, which you obviously are). When I was at university, I was trying to increase my fluency with tritone intervals and began practicing everything in keys a tritone apart. So rather than doing C-F-Bb-Eb etc, I would do C-F#-F-B-Bb-E - first a tritone then a fourth. I carried this forward and recommend it to all my students for a number of reasons. First of all, you get really fast at memorizing the sound and feeling of that relationship (and knowing what it sounds like), and this helps you recognize that sound when you hear it (Monk). You also have that sound and feeling ready to use in case you want to slip in a tritone substitution while improvising. Also, a tritone is the furthest you can get from any note (since larger intervals invert to smaller intervals), and this also applies to the number of accidentals in the key signature (C has no sharps or flats, whereas F# has 6 sharps and Gb has 6 flats). As a result, you are initially disoriented, but at the same time you are developing mental agility in making the largest possible leaps. Finally, a tritone pair generally contains an easy key (C) and a difficult key (F#). This means you can usually do it easily in the easy key, and thus always have an example of what it feels like to YOU to do it well. We should strive for that same sensation and result in the difficult key. Finally, I found it helped me avoid getting frustrated by hammering away at Db-F#-B-E, which can seem really long and discouraging if you're doing something difficult. Anyway, thanks for the video. Efficient practice is super important - we are all busy, there's so much to learn, and there's no way to increase the number of hours in the day, so if we can make our time count for more that's a huge win.
ur ears are on the next level bro ! just curious tho, when you're hearing a solo that you want to transcribe, do you hear the scale degree of the melodies relative to the overall key (ex: key of G major) or individual chords like the ones u labelled in 5:02 Or Both? it seems like u can seamlessly hear the scale degree relative to individual chords (based on how u explained ur process), but for me i tend to keep hearing everything (especially melody) in terms of the overall key and not individual chords .. how can i keep switching my mental thought as the chord keep changing just like u did .. is it just a matter of hardcore transcribing?
I said it before and I'll say it again, you are a musical genius, tks for posting, By the way, I just purchased a Paul Mauriat bari 300 UL and without any special knowledge in musical anything, I chose the same kind of mouthpiece you have on your alto sax. Pure luck? Yes indeed
Ayo I got a couple questions (Nice cut btw). I noticed you puff out your cheeks a little when you play. Are you just circular breathing? I've heard that if you puff your cheeks out it can lead to an unfocused sound (obviously you dont have that) Also, I might ask for your syos for Xmas and I was wondering, is there a major difference between small chamber and extra small chamber? I saw that your mpc has an extra small chamber and I'm wondering if that makes a big difference in how the mpc plays and if it makes the mpc more resistant
Hey! No I am not circular breathing. Puffing your cheeks is a master of taste. It changes my tone color in a way that I like sometimes. Makes it a little more soft. I wouldn’t teach someone to do it though, and if I were to go in a lesson and the teacher told me to not puff my cheeks, I would have no problem doing so. I also never puff my cheeks in classical playing. As far as my SYOS, they sent me 5 different ones featuring many different sizes of chambers. I didn’t even know which one was which - I play tested them all and one sounded clearly the best to me. I gave SYOS the model # number and it was apparently the XS. It’s weird yes, because I was always told small chambers would suck. But here I am haha
Another cool way of thinking of D13b9 could be outlining the sus b9 chord and then playing the 6 to tell its not a melodic minor sus b9 chord but its a major sus b9 chord.
I noticed how great your music theory skills are. Please could you do a video trying to complete a British A level music exam !Or a video teaching music theory as iam a music student this would help :D
@@Saxologic Here is the question paper: filestore.aqa.org.uk/sample-papers-and-mark-schemes/2018/june/AQA-7272W-QP-JUN18-CR.PDF Here is the score, corresponding to the questions: filestore.aqa.org.uk/sample-papers-and-mark-schemes/2018/june/AQA-7272W-INS-JUN18.PDF Here are the extracts for the questions : filestore.aqa.org.uk/resources/music/AQA-72721-EXCERPTS.PDF Here is the final mark scheme: filestore.aqa.org.uk/sample-papers-and-mark-schemes/2018/june/AQA-7272W-W-MS-JUN18.PDF
I learn licks in 12 keys by going through the cycle of 4th instead of going up by half steps. I think it’s easier this way since music moves in fourths. You can also use scale degree numbers to anchor yourself. You always see ii V I or ii V ii V ii V so why not learn licks in that order? That’s just my thinking. Maybe you do this already but I think learning licks in cycle order is way easier than doing it by half steps. Edit: and method 3 is what we do in improv lab class at college. We learn licks using the cycle thing I said but we really only get one try at each key since we are all moving as a class so you just get one try per chord or chord changes before we move on. It works this way too for the class.
That was interesting. The third method involved more of your being, the mind was forced to work more. This is in accordance with what I have learned about memorizing things, the more aspects of yourself that you involve, the better. You could probably enhance that method even more by involving something more or yourself, in some clever way. Dancing around while playing? :)
Hi, I enjoy your presentation and exploration into saxophone and jazz practice. There is also a 4th way. (probably more ways than that). In the key that you know or can easily check, play the first note on your horn, then sing the lick while 1. fingering the note on your horn and 2. imagining the fingerings-sax keys/notes-relationship to a structure. After half of the lick pick up your horn and check to see if your singing and imagination are correct by playing the note you think you are on. When you can imagine and sing the whole thing correctly with out wandering off into the boonies, pick up the horn and play it a few times. Now do the same routine it in a new key. Play the first note on your horn then sing/imagine/air sax and check part way through. My take on the lick... In the key of G major I see the lick as a descending IIminor7 (from the b7 of II-minor) then a descending IVm7 (from the root of Ivm7), then an approach to the tonic of the key. It isn't really a II-V lick even though it is used that way. All the best with your studies. Keep sharing the journey!
What I tend to do sometimes is play a lick on paper as fast as I can a couple of times, and then play it slower or at its regular tempo to see how much easier it’s gotten. It sometimes proves to be very effective, and sometimes doesnt
Apparently, recalling engages more of the brain than drilling. You wouldn't memorize the answer to every possible math problem. You would learn the algorithms that produce the answers then recall them to solve any problem. So once you learn the fingerings (algorithm) for every key and the notes (algorithm) for any particular melody, you can combine them to recall any melody in any key.
That method of practicing could be comparable to "greasing the groove" in the fitness world. Greasing the groove basically means doing an exercise many times throughout the day but never to exhaustion.
Super interesting video! I really like the 3rd method, but I can't tell if it's far superior the 1st one - what if you tried a 4th one; starting off with the 1st one as is (around 10 min) and then top it off with the 3rd? I think one would be done in 15 minutes, being even more fluent than in the 3rd!
Man, you still make me laugh in the good sense...I love your warm up ;) and especially your experiment of course!!! I suggest an experiment 'with and without making fun in between your exercises'...I guess it would be the first one to be superior...for laughing is an important relief factor ;)
Your last one is the best method, but not for the reason you think. Your brain becomes less active after 30 seconds of doing the same thing. So if you do intermittent practice, your brain stays active throughout, when you are switching up. You should actually leave the line earlier than you feel comfortable with it. Trust me, this practice method has cut my undergrad practice time in half (or if my Prof is reading this it's been twice as efficient)
Okay yeah you made a point about the saxophone but could it possibly be different for brass players who have to worry about chops? I'm really curious about this
I think this works in brass players’ favor! The result of this video kind of means that spending a lot of time on one particular thing isn’t favorable - it’s best to work on it and then come back to it with a reset memory and work on it again (spaced repetition)
@@Saxologic Awesome video! I know you think this wasn't a very scientific experiment and that we should take this with a grain of salt, but I think making a series on this would be amazing. This could help out many people understand how they should practice. Thank You!
Surprisingly, you sound quite different switching between the syos and the babbit ny Meyer. You have your own sound on the syos but sound a lot like Vincent herring on the Meyer. Both are great!
How you go about transferring the short term recall to long term memory? Would doing method 3 daily be effective long term? I'm assuming it will, but I'll have to try it out and take notes
It’s so impressive to see how much you’ve grown over the last 4-5 years I’ve been watching you. Not only has your musical intelligence skyrocketed, but also your confidence and ability to speak. You’re an inspiration man. I hope everyone can see you in the light that I do
What he said
Thank you! Though my ability to speak is still pretty lacking. Every jump-cut you see is an awkward pause or a speech error. Haha! Working on it
I had to put on shades
Studying with Gary Keller will do that to you! 💪🏼🤯
"Like ya cut, g"
You beat me to it.
You beat me to it
You beat me to i
You beat me to
@Alfonso Jesse why would you hack your gf's account
I use that third method a lot, going around the circle of 5ths. Once I start to feel comfortable going all the way around the circle I'll set up a "play along tack" running through the chord changes. That way I get forced to shorten the recall time to fit in time with the backing track.
Also, this gets how it sounds against the chord in my ear.
Definitely hoping this becomes a series. Easily could be what I look forward to the most and there is a lot to do with it. You could revisit this exact same thing in a week and see how you've retained, redo the 3 methods and then see the results after that. Or just next short term pit the winner of this ep against 2 new ones. A lot of good stuff here!
Thank you Pauly AKA the tech wizard. I’ll keep it in my back pocket then!
The reason why your piano runs felt so underwhelming on the following day is the socalled "Penelope effect". We forget a good portion of what we learned over night so to speak. Thats also good because we dont only forget the good stuff but also the mistakes we made. So lets say we played something 10 times (7 good, 3 bad) and we forget 6 tries chances are good we forget all 3 bad versions and remember the good attemts.
Also: when the muscles get tired and we continue to practice we learn to play with exhausted muscles - in concert we try to play fresh and relaxed. You might see what I mean... The body builder comparison doesnt work because we dont train for strenght or muscle mass but agility, presicion and flexibility. Sure endurance is importaint but is see it more like walking all day instead of lifting all day..
I'm clarinet teacher by training and study sax atm so I'm not the pinacle of wisdom but maybe that helped..
last word should be one of praise: great video!! I always wondered how that would go and now I dont have to try it myself but can profit of your experiment. thanks! interesting video
Very insightful points! Thank you for the comment, I’ll keep that in mind :)
Very informative.
Saxologic Gaming
No it’s Saxogaming
I don’t know why this comment made me laugh but good job
@@patcoolway lol thanks
@@saxyboy4443 P E R F E C T
Smashologic
im a 7th grade alto sax player trying to get into all-state. your videos have not only encouraged but also provided helpful insight for the saxhopone. Thank you so much!
Great job
6:44 Or you could think of it as Careless Whisper
I play upright bass and ever since I‘m not studying Jazz anymore and don‘t have as much time to practice the instrument, I noticed that it takes me far less time to learn new tunes, lines or whatever. So I learned that, for me personally at least, it is all about not practicing for 3-4 hours straight but playing for 30 min to 1 hour and just repeat things over and over again. The first 30 min to 1 hour can be uncomfortable but the next day feels much better. I guess my body needs time to get use to the new tune since the upright bass is such a physical instrument and hard to play.
Interesting video! I felt the same way about practicing the Mario Kart lick. I played it an almost infinite amount of times before it clicked. What made it click was breaking it down into sections. Instead of practicing the line from start to finish I practiced each section on its own. Then when each section was good I put them together and the muscle memory clicked and I was able to play it no problem.
From all I've learned about the learning process (which is quite a lot; I'm a qualified teacher and I've spent a lot of my time reading up learning, analysing my own learning etc.) I've recently concluded that 'feeling the burn' inside your head, and feeling worn out and hungry at the end of the session, is the single most significant factor in good learnin'.
Really glad to watch this video, certainly affirms that view, especially when you said that the 3rd session hadn't been that long but felt like ages. When we're learning a lot we tend to percieve time as being slower (hence why your childhood was so long; taking in new stuff all the time).
Anyway, I think it's time I actually applied this to my practice rather than doing junk reps like a fucking mug. Thanks again for this man.
You remain ine of the best quality musician channels on yt. Honest content and its just so frickn great
I love u
I just listened to a podcast, and they looked at a study about practicing, and the study found that the more times you play a passage correctly at any tempo, the more it will retain.
the fresh cut
The pfp matches so perfectly I'm crying
Beanos
@@beter7886 yes
Facts.
69 likes
So many great nuggets. Definitely will try that third option. Thanks and that poster is hot!
Great brother!
Holy cow, I'm here before the first 500. Whooo. Keep it up.
Seriously, i haven't played in 20 years and this is helpful
My Saxologic/Syos mouthpiece just arrived! Thanks!
Wooo! Also @Keanan, I wouldn’t recommend it at all for classical playing.
@Keanan_ he means just his preset. It’s probably set to a larger tip opening and chamber than what you’d see in classical. I don’t remember their website fully but I think you might be able to answer questions of what type of music you’re looking to play and then they guide your mouthpiece making from there. Most of their stuff I see is jazz though, but there are a lot of great classical hard rubber mouthpieces out there
Thank you for always sharing yiur knowledge and talent. Youre an inspiration! Your first warm up zoom in hahahahaha!!!
Honestly on my own, I use the first method because that’s what they teach you from the time you’re in 6th grade until high school, but I have noticed that it’s not working all the time. Since it’s, yknow, solo and ensemble picking season, I’m trying to get my solo and I was just looking for a better way to practice it so I actually might just split it into sections and try out the 3rd method, so thank you!
Awesome man!
Thank you for posting this Nathan!! He’s BACK!!!!
A couple of the principles in the Fundamentals of Piano Practice (free, online on the web) is 1. on learning the notes, always play slow* but 2. on practicing your hand movements, play "fast" as soon as possible and 3. always play through your mistakes and fix them on the next repetition. It also recommends you to break down fast passages into chord-like chunks ("parallel sets") since a chord attack is technically infinite speed and it's a lot easier to go down from infinity-to-fast rather than slow-to-fast. I put "fast" in quotes since you technically can play "fast", but slowly; this is the equivalent of simulating how to run but in 50% speed. You kinda have to break down how exactly how your limbs move at full tempo and practice that carefully so you don't make bad habits.
*also don't rely on your muscle memory, actually memorize the notes fully and let your muscle memory develop around it. muscle memory is a lot more temporary in the short-term and will generally harm memorizing the notes long before it truly kicks in in the long-term and you can play without thinking about it as much.
Thank you Nathan, your experiment was really interesting and I'll try the last method and see if it works for me. I really like this kind of content, please make more 🙏
Yes sir brother!
Nice video. I have watched quite a few of your's and they are always interesting. I wanted to mention something that really helped me develop my "bop" chops. You may or may not get use out of it. I noticed you kept saying "the 6th of the minor ii is" ... While you are correct, there is a more simple way to look at it. I would think of this as the 3rd of the V chord. In fact, I would analyze everything over the ii chord as if it's the actual V chord. I've learned that pretty much everything in bop is V to I. The ii chord is just an extension of the V chord (D minor is an extension of G7 starting on the 5th chord tone of G7). This allows my brain to move faster through changes. Also, you can then start to just super impose V to I, V t I, V to I anywhere you want. I think it was Branford or someone that said there is no ii chord in Be-Bop, and I've really found this to be true in many ways. Sorry for the long comment and it may not prove useful, but you seem like the kind of guy that would appreciate trying to look at it from another vantage point.
I appreciate the comment man! I’ve heard of this too. I’ll try that out for my next video that involves analysis
I love the way you think about things. One thing I've found though is that when practicing phrases in all keys, each key gets successively easier because your ears and mind is more in tune with what you're playing. I understand it better by key #12 and it's easier for that reason alone.
Cool experiment! I know you talked about the variables and stuff, but a big one to eliminate if you try this again might be switching the order you did the methods in. Recalling the most recent four keys you did before the recap of all 12 keys could be a big part to the method performing better, maybe not. It’d be cool to see!
Interesting! Ok I’ll give it a shot!
This is great!
It's cool that you actually thought of conducting this experiment, And also actually did it! That's a lot of mental hard work man!
This is a question that always bothered me but I'd never consciously manage to tackled it. So thank you for all of your Great work!
Peace from Israel
I love psychology of the practice and learning. If you are practicing, and your mind starts to wander, it is your brain escaping from the pain that the practice takes to the brain. Basically, your brain is being taken out of its comfort zone, that means, it is being put under presdure, which it interprets as pain. You should never mind-wander when practicing.
mario kart guy is bacc
Thanks for sharing your experience with this. I thought about spaced repetition while I listened, had heard about that being used more when learning languages. Makes sense that it would apply with music as well.
Dang that method three is slick, I wish I would have thought of that before I spent like a jillion hours doing methods 1 and 2 in college lol
I feel that dude same. Also you’re the true master so whatever you did worked and is still working!
Love your channel, your excitement level, teaching ability and mainly the fact you dig Bird and have humor! I hope that you have read Ross Russell's incredible book, "Bird Lives".. it is a stand alone book of the highest caliber...be prepared to almost break out into a cold sweat after reading the first kinda intro chapter, "Obligato at Billy Bergs." You will never forget this book. Further, you will wish Ross Russell had written every biography you ever read. I know you said you were lazy in this vid... please don't be lazy about reading this book...you'll thank me someday ole Top. Peace from Texas.
Oooo damn. That new cut is nice. Welcome back
I'm taking a class on human memory systems this quarter, if there's one thing I've learned in that class so far it's that the #1 most productive moment for committing these to *long term memory* (as opposed to short term memory as you tested here) is 15:05-15:08 and moments like it xD
You can basically "learn how to remember" generally, and also separately "learn how to remember" specific things. Like anything else, you need to practice something to get better at it, so if your goal is to remember something, you don't need to practice that thing so much as you need to *practice remembering* that thing
Love the videos by the way can't want to see u hit 100k subs!
Hi man!
Really interesting video, I'll try this method in my daily practice to see how it's affecting it.
Thanks for your work!
All the best.
Ok but have you tried practicing 40
Hours a day?
Wait. That's illegal
Ling ling says no
@@DevoutChristianHunter not in my country 😂😂😂
Classical snob has entered the chat
Sometimes 2 times a day
Was this a long term experiment? Just kidding, I love this video, thank you very much! As a viewer it's much more valuable to go through an experiment with the UA-camr, instead of getting answers presented with long, more or less comprehensible explanations.
Method 4 : utilize the power of the tropical redbull
Also, awesome video as usual - method 3 and 1 seem the most efficient 🎷
Thanks Steve! And yes, method 4 is in fact the most powerful method but I am not ready to break the internet!
@@Saxologic cofee works too.
I used something similar to method 3 on a specific charlie parker lick as a warm-up. I played the lick at 3 speeds (REALLY slow, medium swing, and slightly uncomfortable) but i would take it through all 12 keys and not let myself go back and fix things or let the mind dwell on the mistakes before going on to the next speed. It was more about moving the fingers and trying to hear what comes next. very therapeutic and meditative.
Spaced repetition is superior in studying as well.
Memory techniques for studying for exams actually inspired me to make this vid!
“Practice doesn’t make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect” - Ghandi or Muhammad or someone important
Daffy Duck
einstein
maybe abe lincoln
@@raphaelkelly861 I think maybe babe ruth
Surely Barack Obama
That improv after the key of C was 🥵🥵🥵🥶🥶🥶 you should definitely record an album!!!!!!
Thanks for the vid. I wonder if it’s placebo though, but I think you’re right though with the feeling comfortable with reps thing, repeating them doesn’t help in the short term. I think though it can vary a lot more, even with how you practice individual reps you have variables like tempo and changing up the rhythm.
I highly doubt it’s placebo. I had no bias; I was hoping the first method would be the best since it took the least amount of time.
I often do a combination of 1 and 3 I guess. I'm not a jazz musician but a classical musician (french horn), but when I practice an etude I often practice a phrase(/bar/measure/etc) until it is just comfortable, then I move on to the next. After I've done a few of these chunks I move back to the first one again, until it's just comfortable, cycle through them all again. I keep doing this until I can do them all on the first try and feel in control about it.
Usually the next day I have to go down a few beats on the metronome but get back to where I was quickly, and then build up further again.
Great idea, I feel dumb for not thinking of it but I’m excited to try it out! I’m a method 2 person normally
I feel like the whole "practice it in all 12 keys" idea is sort of lost on guitar, due to how the instrument is built and the fact that the fingerings stay mostly the same in most places, but I like your findings and I shall try out a version of this practicing technique :)
yeah that's confusing a lot sometimes, however the B and G being a third apart ruins a lot for me lol
@@matthewharrison7868 Not for me, E is my favourite chord ;)
I'm rooting for the father of all, greeting guitar players with open arms... The DADGAD
@@matthewharrison7868 yeah, I think it's way more symmetrical, and I might give it a shot myself, I heard Stanley Jordan uses it aswell. My only problem is if I had to detune other's guitars if I played them, eh, it won't hurt trying both I guess!
This is excellent. Fresh approach, great material, objective look at yourself. More like this! How bout that Mario Kart lick?
Fascinating vid, thanks. I suspected that superior method would be the most effective for a few reasons.
Great video! I'm always looking for new ways to approach the horn. Could you do a video on each method? Testing over a period of a week?
Great video, but I do think that you did better with the third method because of what you learned in the first two practice methods. Yes, I know that it's a new set of fingerings, but you already get around the instrument well. I think the earlier practice helped you internalize the melody so well that you could sit down at the piano and figure it out in 12 keys pretty quickly. Would love to see you experiment with a new line and do the third method first and see how it goes. Thanks for sharing!
It’s hard to say! Though genuinely think the 3rd method really did help.
I recognize that studio, I see you. Lol, I'm glad that you"ll be back on the youtube grind
Great video! I’m been wondering about the effectiveness of my piano practice time, so this subject would be an interesting series. Also, I love your weird humor. 🤪
Love this series!
Are we gonna talk about that smooth edit at 0:06
Let us talk about it
@@Saxologic IT WAS SICK... that's is all.
This is called active recall, great experiment!
Again, non-saxophonist bassist back to praise your videos again. I’ll be back every time btw❤️
Do you think the outcome of the third method would have been different if you had done 11keys at once? Do you think it was especially effective because you broke it down into three parts and cycled through the bite-sized four keys at a time? 🤔
I am not sure! I’ve tried it before. I think it just boils down to what you would rather to! I think all of it works, as long as your brain is thinking.
It's an important topic and vital. Practice Smarter and Harder= Greatness.
For headphone users, do not keep the volume up at the start pf the video. Believe me...
I learned the hard way.
Cool video Nathan. I'd like to suggest an alternative to the cycle of fifths (once you are really comfortable with it, which you obviously are). When I was at university, I was trying to increase my fluency with tritone intervals and began practicing everything in keys a tritone apart. So rather than doing C-F-Bb-Eb etc, I would do C-F#-F-B-Bb-E - first a tritone then a fourth. I carried this forward and recommend it to all my students for a number of reasons.
First of all, you get really fast at memorizing the sound and feeling of that relationship (and knowing what it sounds like), and this helps you recognize that sound when you hear it (Monk). You also have that sound and feeling ready to use in case you want to slip in a tritone substitution while improvising. Also, a tritone is the furthest you can get from any note (since larger intervals invert to smaller intervals), and this also applies to the number of accidentals in the key signature (C has no sharps or flats, whereas F# has 6 sharps and Gb has 6 flats). As a result, you are initially disoriented, but at the same time you are developing mental agility in making the largest possible leaps. Finally, a tritone pair generally contains an easy key (C) and a difficult key (F#). This means you can usually do it easily in the easy key, and thus always have an example of what it feels like to YOU to do it well. We should strive for that same sensation and result in the difficult key. Finally, I found it helped me avoid getting frustrated by hammering away at Db-F#-B-E, which can seem really long and discouraging if you're doing something difficult.
Anyway, thanks for the video. Efficient practice is super important - we are all busy, there's so much to learn, and there's no way to increase the number of hours in the day, so if we can make our time count for more that's a huge win.
Hey man this is really great! Thank you for this, I am going to start trying this!
@@Saxologic cool, I hope you like it. I graduated from UM actually, just saw you're studying there now!
What a good looking mic!
Makes sense doing one rep each would be the most beneficial. I like the idea of this being a series!
I love this format
I love u
Great improvement
Bro no lie.....YOUR CUT FRESHHHH!!👀
ur ears are on the next level bro ! just curious tho, when you're hearing a solo that you want to transcribe, do you hear the scale degree of the melodies relative to the overall key (ex: key of G major) or individual chords like the ones u labelled in 5:02 Or Both? it seems like u can seamlessly hear the scale degree relative to individual chords (based on how u explained ur process), but for me i tend to keep hearing everything (especially melody) in terms of the overall key and not individual chords .. how can i keep switching my mental thought as the chord keep changing just like u did .. is it just a matter of hardcore transcribing?
I think your way of thinking is totally viable! This is just how I learned. Many ways of thinking can get you to the same goal.
I said it before and I'll say it again, you are a musical genius, tks for posting, By the way, I just purchased a Paul Mauriat bari 300 UL and without any special knowledge in musical anything, I chose the same kind of mouthpiece you have on your alto sax. Pure luck? Yes indeed
This is some good shit dude! Keep it up
Ayo I got a couple questions (Nice cut btw).
I noticed you puff out your cheeks a little when you play. Are you just circular breathing? I've heard that if you puff your cheeks out it can lead to an unfocused sound (obviously you dont have that)
Also, I might ask for your syos for Xmas and I was wondering, is there a major difference between small chamber and extra small chamber? I saw that your mpc has an extra small chamber and I'm wondering if that makes a big difference in how the mpc plays and if it makes the mpc more resistant
Hey! No I am not circular breathing. Puffing your cheeks is a master of taste. It changes my tone color in a way that I like sometimes. Makes it a little more soft. I wouldn’t teach someone to do it though, and if I were to go in a lesson and the teacher told me to not puff my cheeks, I would have no problem doing so. I also never puff my cheeks in classical playing.
As far as my SYOS, they sent me 5 different ones featuring many different sizes of chambers. I didn’t even know which one was which - I play tested them all and one sounded clearly the best to me. I gave SYOS the model # number and it was apparently the XS. It’s weird yes, because I was always told small chambers would suck. But here I am haha
Another cool way of thinking of D13b9 could be outlining the sus b9 chord and then playing the 6 to tell its not a melodic minor sus b9 chord but its a major sus b9 chord.
so, if i understood the video, all saxophonists are bodybuilder
Awesome, thanks! Just wondering: How about you envisage a lick in all keys without the horn and then try?
Might try that!!! Or transcribe a chorus of a solo without the instrument first
@@Saxologic Yes! I wonder about the connection between visualizing and playing ....
I noticed how great your music theory skills are. Please could you do a video trying to complete a British A level music exam !Or a video teaching music theory as iam a music student this would help :D
Could you send me a link to such exam? I think that would be a fun video to do!
@@Saxologic Here is the question paper: filestore.aqa.org.uk/sample-papers-and-mark-schemes/2018/june/AQA-7272W-QP-JUN18-CR.PDF
Here is the score, corresponding to the questions: filestore.aqa.org.uk/sample-papers-and-mark-schemes/2018/june/AQA-7272W-INS-JUN18.PDF
Here are the extracts for the questions : filestore.aqa.org.uk/resources/music/AQA-72721-EXCERPTS.PDF
Here is the final mark scheme: filestore.aqa.org.uk/sample-papers-and-mark-schemes/2018/june/AQA-7272W-W-MS-JUN18.PDF
I learn licks in 12 keys by going through the cycle of 4th instead of going up by half steps. I think it’s easier this way since music moves in fourths. You can also use scale degree numbers to anchor yourself. You always see ii V I or ii V ii V ii V so why not learn licks in that order? That’s just my thinking. Maybe you do this already but I think learning licks in cycle order is way easier than doing it by half steps.
Edit: and method 3 is what we do in improv lab class at college. We learn licks using the cycle thing I said but we really only get one try at each key since we are all moving as a class so you just get one try per chord or chord changes before we move on. It works this way too for the class.
That was interesting. The third method involved more of your being, the mind was forced to work more. This is in accordance with what I have learned about memorizing things, the more aspects of yourself that you involve, the better. You could probably enhance that method even more by involving something more or yourself, in some clever way. Dancing around while playing? :)
Hi, I enjoy your presentation and exploration into saxophone and jazz practice.
There is also a 4th way. (probably more ways than that).
In the key that you know or can easily check, play the first note on your horn, then sing the lick while 1. fingering the note on your horn and 2. imagining the fingerings-sax keys/notes-relationship to a structure. After half of the lick pick up your horn and check to see if your singing and imagination are correct by playing the note you think you are on. When you can imagine and sing the whole thing correctly with out wandering off into the boonies, pick up the horn and play it a few times.
Now do the same routine it in a new key. Play the first note on your horn then sing/imagine/air sax and check part way through.
My take on the lick... In the key of G major I see the lick as a descending IIminor7 (from the b7 of II-minor) then a descending IVm7 (from the root of Ivm7), then an approach to the tonic of the key. It isn't really a II-V lick even though it is used that way.
All the best with your studies. Keep sharing the journey!
What I tend to do sometimes is play a lick on paper as fast as I can a couple of times, and then play it slower or at its regular tempo to see how much easier it’s gotten. It sometimes proves to be very effective, and sometimes doesnt
I love the hair cut!
Apparently, recalling engages more of the brain than drilling. You wouldn't memorize the answer to every possible math problem. You would learn the algorithms that produce the answers then recall them to solve any problem. So once you learn the fingerings (algorithm) for every key and the notes (algorithm) for any particular melody, you can combine them to recall any melody in any key.
My ABSOLUTE favorite part @ 9:25 🤪❤️❤️❤️
That method of practicing could be comparable to "greasing the groove" in the fitness world. Greasing the groove basically means doing an exercise many times throughout the day but never to exhaustion.
Super interesting video! I really like the 3rd method, but I can't tell if it's far superior the 1st one - what if you tried a 4th one; starting off with the 1st one as is (around 10 min) and then top it off with the 3rd? I think one would be done in 15 minutes, being even more fluent than in the 3rd!
Awesome video. In the 3rd method, if you made a mistake on any 1 try, did you do it over?
No, I went back to the mistake I made and corrected it but then kept going
Please try out the Meyer 7MM hard rubber, because you are a bebopper, It has the Phil Woods tone. It has a .081" tip.
The lad is back
Man, you still make me laugh in the good sense...I love your warm up ;) and especially your experiment of course!!! I suggest an experiment 'with and without making fun in between your exercises'...I guess it would be the first one to be superior...for laughing is an important relief factor ;)
HA! I KNEW I was gonna get greeted with the Mario Kart Lick! Classic!
I had assumed #1 would be the best, but now I see the error of my ways.
@Saxologic that microphone are you using in this video?
Rode NT2A
My dude I can link you some great scientific articles on the best way of practicing, my Saxophone Professor studies that stuff!!
Your last one is the best method, but not for the reason you think. Your brain becomes less active after 30 seconds of doing the same thing. So if you do intermittent practice, your brain stays active throughout, when you are switching up. You should actually leave the line earlier than you feel comfortable with it. Trust me, this practice method has cut my undergrad practice time in half (or if my Prof is reading this it's been twice as efficient)
Wow! Yes please show me. Feel free to email it to me!
Share those here dude!
i'm keen as well
Agreed. I would also like to check out these articles.
Pls someone transcribe the solo of the 17:06
I just auditioned for Frost at UMiami (undergrad) school, I think it went well.
Nice! What instrument?
@@Saxologic Trombone
Did you move up to a 8 just for the altissimo squeals....don’t lie to me 👀
Haha of course! Jk, I moved up because I felt like it could be even more open - and it is!
@@Saxologic You honestly sound great on it!
Okay yeah you made a point about the saxophone but could it possibly be different for brass players who have to worry about chops? I'm really curious about this
I think this works in brass players’ favor! The result of this video kind of means that spending a lot of time on one particular thing isn’t favorable - it’s best to work on it and then come back to it with a reset memory and work on it again (spaced repetition)
@@Saxologic Awesome video! I know you think this wasn't a very scientific experiment and that we should take this with a grain of salt, but I think making a series on this would be amazing. This could help out many people understand how they should practice. Thank You!
Do you think that the method will still work if I would cycle 2-3 keys?
I think so! Though I think you are safer with a little more space, unless learning the lick in other keys is really hard!
Could you do an update on these methods in a week? A month?
Shoot dude, that was impressive! You're making me want to practice...and I never practice, lol.
Surprisingly, you sound quite different switching between the syos and the babbit ny Meyer. You have your own sound on the syos but sound a lot like Vincent herring on the Meyer. Both are great!
You’re great
This was pretty cool. But, I play bass trombone. that saxophone looks like a very cute size, and I'm a little jealous haha.
How you go about transferring the short term recall to long term memory? Would doing method 3 daily be effective long term? I'm assuming it will, but I'll have to try it out and take notes
Great Video!
Who's the new guy?