And yet Starfleet felt that Picard really needed to have his therapist sitting next to him on the bridge. If they hadn't, things might have been like the timeline in season two of "Picard".
There are times I really hate the prime directive. The self-determination of cultures is important, but when sentient people are being raised for food, assimilated by the Borg, or serving as addicted customers to their less advanced neighbors, then I really question whether it's valid.
That's technically not true or its not supposed to be true. Borg are an outside force they should always intervene. Plus for the guy above me. The federation is 20th century earth's future. They would act If time left a loop hole.
Unfortunately, the Prime Directive is necessary as without it the Federation would have an excuse to invade, imperialize, and overwrite alien cultures to conform with human standards. Imagine if the USA invaded every nation with a lower age of consent in an effort to ''civilize'' said civilizations by forcing them to conform to American sexual mores. Although having an age of consent under 18 is primitive and disturbing, foreign intervention to change such a thing is imperialistic and the Federation could do something similar without the prime directive.
@@anxietywave8735 hell honestly the consensus of age of consent is generally 18 but the written law about the subject is between states. We'd have to fix that first. It's surprising but there actually a lot more states that have age of consent as 16 then 18. Rediculous as it is. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States Now I believe this was subject to change but it's still fucked up.
It gets weird when there does seem to be question about whether the oppressed species in question *likes* being oppressed, as in this rather weird example.
*@Cane Mckeyton ~* Correct for the most part. *;)* 1. As a rough ST-timeline... - a.) *2380 - [ST: Lower Decks 1x01] ~* [LD season 01] begins. This is +10 years after the end of ST:TNG, +5 years after ST:DS9's end, and +2 years after ST: Voyager's end. - b.) *2384 ~* Despite knowing of their impending supernova for nearly a decade before the projected (supernova-)detonation, internal divisive conflicts, Tal Shiar cover-ups, and stubborn pride prevents The Romulan Star Empire from appealing to the United Federation of Planets for aid until 2384 (out of desperation, at that point). - c.) *2385 - [ST: Picard 1x02] ~* The Federation scrambles to assemble an Evacuation Fleet above planet-Mars, using an android ('Synthetics') work-force to help speed the work. Unfortunately, the Evacuation Fleet is sabotaged and completely wiped out by the covert actions of the ultra-secret Romulan 'Anti-Synthetics' cabal/cult known as the Zhat Vash. The Zhat Vash zealots hated Synthetics so rabidly much, that the Zhat Vash knowingly allowed *BILLIONS* of their own (Romulan) people to burn to death in the supernova in order strike a blow against Synthetics. - d.) *2387 - [Star Trek (2009 film)] ~* Ambassador Spock proposes to try to contain the Romulan Supernova via use of the experimental substance _'Red Matter.'_ To be clear, Spock's plan would *NOT* have prevented the Romulus-star's death, but _WOULD_ have given the Time to evacuate planet-Romulus; slow freezing vs. instant burn. Unfortunately, the Romulan Supernova occurs earlier than expected by weeks, and Spock fails despite his earnest best efforts. Mining Captain Nero (wrongly & incorrectly) blames Spock and the Federation for the disaster (Nero's pregnant-wife being among the billions of casualties upon planet-Romulus' destruction). 2. (1:25) *_"It's the 80's, dude! We don't have psychiatric problems!"_** ~* But yeah, that was a great meta-gag ('80's) interwoven into the fabric of the show. Props to the ST:LD writers for that level of clever writing. *:)* Hope this helps clarify. *:)*
@@schnoz2372 ~ Not unless it is [Star Trek: Lower Decks, The Next Generation]. *;)* As posted above, [LD season 01] begins in ST-year *2380.* - a.) *2382 ~* So with current [LD s03] in (RL-year) 2022, it means it is currently ST-year 2382. - b.) *2383 ~* ST:LD has also been pre-approved for [LD s04], so we know ST:LD will continue on to ST-year 2383. - c.) *2384+ ~* If ST:LD continues further for [LD s05+], it will begin crossing over into the ST: Picard and Kelvin (JJ Trek) timeframe(s).
It's also a nod to the way the Federation and Starfleet was depicted in the 1980s where few people needed therapy (despite Troi having her own seat on the bridge of the Enterprise lol)
Kirk would at least have the style and smarts to wait for something that could be semi-plausibly claimed to be an excuse... Like maybe trick one of the monkey guys into killing a security guard and then call a 1st degree breach of the Prime Directive 'protecting the crew of my ship'!
Does anyone think that the reason Mariner is acting the way she is throughout the series, is because it’s a coping mechanism from her trauma during the Dominion War? It’s the only explanation as to why she went from a competent and outstanding officer to a loose cannon who ignored protocol and not take things seriously.
I totally agree. I have a theory that she may have been a POW in a cardassian prison camp and maybe that messed her up. it might explain where she got that Bat'leth: maybe Martok liberated the camp and she was the first prisoner to get back into the fighting, so he gave her his own sword out of respect. Who knows? maybe she was even part of the Maquis one time and got captured when the colonies were wiped out.
Ehhhh😕 wait there was green chicks in the 80s with bootys like that? And space ships with teleporters wth happend? Edit: i haven't watched any of the shows of lower decks so i didn't know it was the future 80s. But Tindi is fine as 🍷. ❤❤❤❤
@wolf bane allowing a sentient species to go extinct when you can easily help them survive just because they havent reached a technological level that meets your standarts is unethical,irresponsible and down right evil. There is no argument that can be made to deffend such actions no matter how hard you try to find logic in it. The prime directive is based on a fundamentally wrong understanding of evolution and it only exists to create unnecessary conflict and raise some BS moral questions within the episode, not to mention that it gets broken 90% of the time anyway.. Furthermore, it makes some characters look downright hypocritical. Like how Picard was willing to allow the entire Boraalan species to go extinct and allow the population of an entire planet to be exploited by their neighbors because the Prime Directive is holier than Christ, and yet he still broke it in order to save Wesley on Rubicun III (a planet that Starfleet had no business being there since it had a pre warp civilization in it and they knew it) when it didnt suit him.
@@_NIKOS9_NIKOS So... What you're saying is... Imperialism is justified, if the people you're going after are being exploited... Or you just don't agree with their cultural norms?
@@MrJinglejanglejingle No, I just believe that people who have yet to reach a level of technological advancement deserve as much help as those who have and certainly they do not deserve to have their entire species wiped out, especially if it is due to factors completely outside of their control
There was that flashback in episode I want to say 5 where one of her friends was eaten alive by a shapeshifting space hell beast and there is a pervading theory that she fought in the Klingon war of 2372 I think that’s the year it started and the dominion war of 2373-2375 so she’s probably a bit messed up from that she kind of goes off on some of the crap she’s gone through in episode one. It’s how her therapist goes about treating her is what is going to help
@@baabaaer When did the US get any oil from that endeavor? It's a conspiracy theory grounded on anti-American bigotry, not something that actually happened.
I know this is a cartoon, but man....there's no way a captain would have THIS MUCH PATIENCE for such an insubordinate (albeit well meaning) officer. She's getting major rope for being the daughter.
I don't know about that. Picard was willing to look the other way when Dr. Crusher's act of direct insubordination in "The High Ground" ended up getting both of them held hostage by terrorists and nearly got the Enterprise destroyed...
@@Robert-hz9bj i mean nepatism is rampant throughout starfleet Its just waaaaay worse when it comes to family Another prime example Admiral Paris protected Tom when his mistake should have put him in jail, or worse, but all he got was demoted and was on his way out of starfleet solely because his dad is an admiral
Then why is it dispensing nostalgia like a broken record? Why are they part of starfleet? Just be a pirate or a trader ship or a cruise ship or something. This show wants to have it both ways, it wants to be a Star Trek series and a Rick and Morty cartoon. Those things don't mix well. If this was a parody then why is it taking about Star Trek things that were serious? If it wants to be it's own thing then it needs to stop with the nostalgia because that is like adding wine to a cup of soda pop. Just do it's own thing!
@@danhair you have a point, I like this show but I disagree with its choice to be Star Trek themed. I believe it would hav been fine on its own with its own story and context
And yet, ironically, there don't seem to be a lot of truly happy people in this show. There's smugness when someone (Becket) gets their way, but that's about it.
I do love that Migleemo is introduced as "The worst counselor in the fleet" but he is still very good at his job and does help a lot of people work through whatever problems they have.
Ben Russel-Gough: you heard Cap. Freeman, she's only on the USS Cheetos because her mom's captain. Obviously Starfleet is about who you KNOW, just like Wesley got to be a bridge-officer cuz Picard was his future step-daddy.
@@kenburns4547 Ensign Marty Stu... sorry, Wesley, was a bit of a special case. As Starfleet's equivalent of Rey Palpatine, none of the rules applied to him because He Was Just Awesome Like That. I literally don't know what Roddenberry was smoking when he created the character.
Blame that on Picard. If Picard wasn't assimilated before Wolf 359, Sisko's wife and ship won't be destroyed, he won't be floating around, he won't go to DS9, then he won't have found the wormhole, thus the Dominion won't come and Marquis won't be crushed like that. :)
@@kenburns4547Mariner is annoying for sure, but FAR from a Mary Sue. That would be Burnham from STD. Mariner has all sort of flaws, gets called on them, and they tend bite her in the ass. Episode 9 she even admits she would be done in Starfleet if her mother ever kicked her off the ship.
Yes, because races that reach the stars tend to have overcome those aspects of themselves and find a balance and stability that results in a race capable of interacting on some level with other races. By short changing those races their time to grow and leave the cradle Star Fleet is only hurting them as a species. Until a species gets warp travel they are usually hands off as far as Star Fleet and the Federation are considered. As for your comment on Picard not saving people, he says it himself, they don't know if that race was supposed to survive, and they don't know if that race could adapt to the wider universe. By saving them t hey are playing god and trying to say they know better than the universe. The prime direct is there for a reason because of how many races were altered, experimented on, or destroyed by higher tech races coming in and playing god.
Like T'lyn, Ensign Mariner is something of a maverick, renegade, and defier or policies. But, she she does what is necessary to get results. Even if it means crossing the line every now and then.
No-one in the comments seems to mention that the implication of nutrient pellets is that it's the easiest food for the lizards to be fattened up with. the leader is going to take things right back to the way they were before. (nutrient pellets are worse than the delicious lizards, so its not for the ruler to eat for sure)
@@JayJayM57 i think the main problem is that they where peaceful the day before. with the prime directive already broken to the point of a civil war, there has to be a way to at least bring things to peace. its not like other episodes of star track they can just say hay dont tell anyone about us because only a few people where affected. this is a tad bigger XD at this point its already broken.
I can’t help but wonder about what happens after they get the replicators. Assuming, the rats stop eating the lizards what will happen to their population, will they be culled as the rats don’t need them any more? Will their population grow into an ecological disaster? How will the replicators be powered? On the other hand what could come from the revolution? Will there be food problems? Will there be a power vacuum, especially once Mariner leaves? Do some Lizards genuinely find cannibalism tasty and could a lizard group start oppressing others as food?
See this shit is why the prime directives exsists, no matter how pure there intentions that interference ripples out in ways they cannot fully comprehend. Who knows what kind of butterfly effect this will have on there society and culture. I mean just look at us we still cant fix our own society and culture, what makes these people think they can fix a culture completely alien to them without consequences?
Sort of. Most of her problems are her *relationship* with her mother. Under no circumstances let her stay on the Ceritos. Transfer her over to one of those ships that could use someone with her 'skill-set' like the Defiant or the Enterprise-F. I'd give her a solid three months. Either she'd be an Away Team Member #6 fatality or she'l be promoted to Lt J. G. and become a semi-recurring character.
You know, it would be hilarious if a Captain were to say "one to beam up," and then the transporter technician were to beam up some random person because of the lack of details.
Honestly, if the lizardmans like to be eaten and don't see a problem with it, let them be eaten, don't lose your times with morons that prefer servitude rather than doing something with themselves.
If the people are not at war with themselves then there is less paperwork for the captain, so she violates the prime directive and gives the people advanced food replication tech. Two wrongs make a right, or at least a good enough.
Mariner is way out of line, both as a subordinate and as a daughter, you cannot and should never call your superior officer or mother a bitch, especially someone who is both, right in front of her. She has no understanding of respect, disagreeing with somebody's view points is okay, but flat out just disrespecting them is not okay
This is one of those moments when you really don’t know whether you like Mariner or not. The Prime Directive is Starfleet’s most sacred law and for her to just blatantly disregard it is why she wouldn’t last long anywhere else
Joshua Wells: Mary Sues get a free pass; like Janeway in Endgame; where she cooperates with her future self to alter the timeline, destroying decades of history; and she gets promoted to admiral for it.
@@kenburns4547 how is she a Mary Sue? in this very clip her own mother tells her that if they weren't related she would be flat on her ass on the unemployment line. Not to mention the fact that the clip ends with Mariner being sent to a therapist.
The Prime Directive is a principle and a law, just like any other. We run into problems when people turn it into inflexible dogma to be obeyed regardless of the cost.
I want people to watch this clip each time they think Mariner is a strong, independent Kirk-like main character. This clip right here shows you all you need to know about her: spoiled, self-centered and irresponsible.
Spoiled, self-centered, and irresponsible Mariner may or may not be, but I don’t think a clip in which she interferes with the governance of an alien world in order to save one sapient species from being oppressed and outright eaten by another is really the best way to illustrate it, or even a good way to illustrate it; her only crime here is going around Starfleet’s rules to do it. It’s otherwise not really that far removed from what Kirk did in “The Cloud Minders”.
@@blondiewan3331 She used a sonic cleaning device to activate a weapon of weird energy that infected Ransom. She gave inventions to an uncivilized race who barely invented anything itself. Saying that you are respecting a species by giving them stuff is like the Inperial Army creating cargo cultures around the indigenous people of the islands the occupied during WW1 and WW2. And now because of them they venerate the planes and people like gods of gifts. Or how Kirk proved in the movie Into Darkness that you can replace one diety for another. The way the prime directive was created was based on the human encounters of civilizations and how they poisoned/deluded their cultures to extinction. But I guess this show is too childish to explore those kinds of ideas.
The prime directive is a shit policy and largely indefensible. It’s the federations way of playing god while ignoring all moral imperatives for the less fortunate. “Oh I’m sorry your species is being wiped out by a serious of disasters brought upon by acts of nature, but if i help your dying people you might want my technology or emulate my culture before you’re supposed to. Anyway enjoy burying another kid in a catastrophe I could total prevent! If your species survives what is most likely the damnation of your world, we’ll contact you in a few hundred years.” I mean the very attitude that spawned the prime directive is based 1) on a Darwinistic mindset, as in the strong will advance and survive to space faring status while the weak or unfortunate die off, approach 2) that humanity can only interfere negatively with other people and 3) that despite being a literal utopian abundance, you have no moral obligation to help those dying. If we followed the prime directive then foreign aid to underdeveloped countries would be illegal. Food donations, charity organizations like the Red Cross, habit for Humanity, Peace Corps etc all would be illegal. We’d ignore the Ebola crisis in west Africa, the refugee crisis from the Middle East, still have polio, smallpox and every other nasty disease we’ve eradicated festering in the underdeveloped corners of the world. I’m not saying humanity has a very good track record of collectively responding to crises and ending human suffering but goddamnit the prime directive would make it even illegal to try.
Hmm this is confusing who handled this scenario the right way her or her ? And huh rats eats lizards was that nature on earth I mean my knowledge on reptiles was 🦎🍴🐀 and 🐍🍴🐁. but huh also the hell it's the 80s still hmm well I guess this cartoon does has a lil bit of the jetsons inspite Janet waldo voicing she was judy it being Hanna and Barbera 1960 to 1980 yeah uh. Oh man everyone say that bout her 1:34 even her mom golly ok 1:41 the bird shrink that's green ? Eh
It doesn’t matter if the planet was peaceful or not, if there were mass murders or not. The entire point and philosophy of the Prime Directive is that we cannot know what effects interfering with an underdeveloped culture can be. And more over, we have no RIGHT to do so! EVERYONE now a days like to shriek that “colonialism is wrong.” But when you enforce your morals on another culture how is that not colonialism?
If the rat people are willing to accept replicated food, doesn't that mean they have no other choice but to eat the lizard people? So in order to free one race, Mariner was willing to genocide another. Archer's brand of first contacts is still alive in the future.
Not necessarily. It seems more like they would be capable to have other food sources but rely mostly on the lizzards. Keep in mind, these lizzard people need food as well, so farming seems to be an option. I wouldn't be surprised if the lizzard people aside of food are also used for other slave labor.
@@schwarzerritter5724 Which still leaves the question open, what the Lizzards eat if even basic food is not available. To raise animals, let alone some sentient lifeform as cettle requires some form of steady food source. So options have to be there, the Rats just don't seem to use them if if loosing the Slaves as food would mean they would starve. That being said the Rat King didn't seem to be to concerned about starvation either.
@@shadowhunter0815 The Food issue may be a primary concern but solving it will still leave two very angry races with generations of distrust and hatred. It seems inevitable these civilizations will go to war, only difference is federation interference could effect the caliber of the conflict. If one side could say hack a food replicator and us it to build weapons they could gain the upper hand and cause environmental damage to the planet.
Maguss There is not necessarily nothing else to eat, just nothing else the rat people can eat. For example, humans can not eat grass, but humans can eat cows who can eat grass.
"It's the 80s we don't have psychiatric problems!" So meta.
Khiraxz Mariner proves that belief wrong.
Doesn't Lower Decks take place in the 2380s?
@@CaptainRhodor 2382 is the current year, so yes. Peak Trek 80s lmao
And yet Starfleet felt that Picard really needed to have his therapist sitting next to him on the bridge. If they hadn't, things might have been like the timeline in season two of "Picard".
@@CaptainRhodor Yes, that’s the joke
Freeman literally solved their problems in less than a minute.
Lol yeah true.
Yeah but totally a mom thing...
Freeman has repeatedly shown the ability to solve intractible problems using MOM SUPERPOWERS.
But that violates the Prime Directive. And that can have dangerous consequences.
@@gammaxmen is it really worse then allowing a sentient species to be harvasted for food
There are times I really hate the prime directive. The self-determination of cultures is important, but when sentient people are being raised for food, assimilated by the Borg, or serving as addicted customers to their less advanced neighbors, then I really question whether it's valid.
If the Federation existed on 20th century earth they would do nothing to stop the nahtzees unless they attacked a Federation country first.
That's technically not true or its not supposed to be true. Borg are an outside force they should always intervene. Plus for the guy above me. The federation is 20th century earth's future. They would act If time left a loop hole.
Unfortunately, the Prime Directive is necessary as without it the Federation would have an excuse to invade, imperialize, and overwrite alien cultures to conform with human standards.
Imagine if the USA invaded every nation with a lower age of consent in an effort to ''civilize'' said civilizations by forcing them to conform to American sexual mores. Although having an age of consent under 18 is primitive and disturbing, foreign intervention to change such a thing is imperialistic and the Federation could do something similar without the prime directive.
@@anxietywave8735 hell honestly the consensus of age of consent is generally 18 but the written law about the subject is between states. We'd have to fix that first. It's surprising but there actually a lot more states that have age of consent as 16 then 18. Rediculous as it is. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States
Now I believe this was subject to change but it's still fucked up.
It gets weird when there does seem to be question about whether the oppressed species in question *likes* being oppressed, as in this rather weird example.
At first I was like '80's? What does she mean by that?'
And then I remembered, 'oh, that's right. 2380's'
*@Cane Mckeyton ~* Correct for the most part. *;)*
1. As a rough ST-timeline...
- a.) *2380 - [ST: Lower Decks 1x01] ~* [LD season 01] begins. This is +10 years after the end of ST:TNG, +5 years after ST:DS9's end, and +2 years after ST: Voyager's end.
- b.) *2384 ~* Despite knowing of their impending supernova for nearly a decade before the projected (supernova-)detonation, internal divisive conflicts, Tal Shiar cover-ups, and stubborn pride prevents The Romulan Star Empire from appealing to the United Federation of Planets for aid until 2384 (out of desperation, at that point).
- c.) *2385 - [ST: Picard 1x02] ~* The Federation scrambles to assemble an Evacuation Fleet above planet-Mars, using an android ('Synthetics') work-force to help speed the work. Unfortunately, the Evacuation Fleet is sabotaged and completely wiped out by the covert actions of the ultra-secret Romulan 'Anti-Synthetics' cabal/cult known as the Zhat Vash. The Zhat Vash zealots hated Synthetics so rabidly much, that the Zhat Vash knowingly allowed *BILLIONS* of their own (Romulan) people to burn to death in the supernova in order strike a blow against Synthetics.
- d.) *2387 - [Star Trek (2009 film)] ~* Ambassador Spock proposes to try to contain the Romulan Supernova via use of the experimental substance _'Red Matter.'_ To be clear, Spock's plan would *NOT* have prevented the Romulus-star's death, but _WOULD_ have given the Time to evacuate planet-Romulus; slow freezing vs. instant burn. Unfortunately, the Romulan Supernova occurs earlier than expected by weeks, and Spock fails despite his earnest best efforts. Mining Captain Nero (wrongly & incorrectly) blames Spock and the Federation for the disaster (Nero's pregnant-wife being among the billions of casualties upon planet-Romulus' destruction).
2. (1:25) *_"It's the 80's, dude! We don't have psychiatric problems!"_** ~* But yeah, that was a great meta-gag ('80's) interwoven into the fabric of the show. Props to the ST:LD writers for that level of clever writing. *:)*
Hope this helps clarify. *:)*
@@pendrake40 so is it 2480s?
@@schnoz2372 ~ Not unless it is [Star Trek: Lower Decks, The Next Generation]. *;)*
As posted above, [LD season 01] begins in ST-year *2380.*
- a.) *2382 ~* So with current [LD s03] in (RL-year) 2022, it means it is currently ST-year 2382.
- b.) *2383 ~* ST:LD has also been pre-approved for [LD s04], so we know ST:LD will continue on to ST-year 2383.
- c.) *2384+ ~* If ST:LD continues further for [LD s05+], it will begin crossing over into the ST: Picard and Kelvin (JJ Trek) timeframe(s).
It's also a nod to the way the Federation and Starfleet was depicted in the 1980s where few people needed therapy (despite Troi having her own seat on the bridge of the Enterprise lol)
@@pendrake40the show is set 1 year after star trek nemisis
I’ve got to quote Ultron to the captain here. “I think you’re confusing PEACE with QUIET.”
"We raise them as food they like it". "Well, we are delicious"
Mariner is too 23rd Century for Starfleet. This is the type of stuff Kirk did ALL THE TIME!
She was born in the wrong era.
Kirk would at least have the style and smarts to wait for something that could be semi-plausibly claimed to be an excuse... Like maybe trick one of the monkey guys into killing a security guard and then call a 1st degree breach of the Prime Directive 'protecting the crew of my ship'!
@@benrussell-gough1201 That wouldn't work Kirk even pointed out you are supposed to be willing to die to enforce it.
disoth That's the sign of a total noob-fuckwit.
Kirk never violated the Prime Directive... sounds like shit Janeway would say.
@@benrussell-gough1201 No, you're just a racist and mad she a black woman is getting over on people like whites do
Does anyone think that the reason Mariner is acting the way she is throughout the series, is because it’s a coping mechanism from her trauma during the Dominion War? It’s the only explanation as to why she went from a competent and outstanding officer to a loose cannon who ignored protocol and not take things seriously.
I totally agree. I have a theory that she may have been a POW in a cardassian prison camp and maybe that messed her up. it might explain where she got that Bat'leth: maybe Martok liberated the camp and she was the first prisoner to get back into the fighting, so he gave her his own sword out of respect.
Who knows? maybe she was even part of the Maquis one time and got captured when the colonies were wiped out.
@@TheCombatEditor62 doubt it, since she’s been with Starfleet since the war and the organization has been all but wiped out.
Confirmed in S4E09
Dude you called it.
"its the 80s, we don't have psychatric problems!!"
Ehhhh😕 wait there was green chicks in the 80s with bootys like that? And space ships with teleporters wth happend?
Edit: i haven't watched any of the shows of lower decks so i didn't know it was the future 80s. But Tindi is fine as 🍷. ❤❤❤❤
@@angerymechanic661 it's the 2380s😉
Tell that to Barclay
@@spyrofan9681 ah lt barcly. The best freaky character of star trek. I like when he becomes a spider.
@@spyrofan9681 im gonna share this cus of poor barcly
ua-cam.com/video/SrKNbqrgyWE/v-deo.html
"SCEW THE PRIME DIRECTIVE!"
Preaching to the choir on that one
@wolf bane allowing a sentient species to go extinct when you can easily help them survive just because they havent reached a technological level that meets your standarts is unethical,irresponsible and down right evil.
There is no argument that can be made to deffend such actions no matter how hard you try to find logic in it.
The prime directive is based on a fundamentally wrong understanding of evolution and it only exists to create unnecessary conflict and raise some BS moral questions within the episode, not to mention that it gets broken 90% of the time anyway..
Furthermore, it makes some characters look downright hypocritical. Like how Picard was willing to allow the entire Boraalan species to go extinct and allow the population of an entire planet to be exploited by their neighbors because the Prime Directive is holier than Christ, and yet he still broke it in order to save Wesley on Rubicun III (a planet that Starfleet had no business being there since it had a pre warp civilization in it and they knew it) when it didnt suit him.
@@_NIKOS9_NIKOS So... What you're saying is... Imperialism is justified, if the people you're going after are being exploited... Or you just don't agree with their cultural norms?
@@MrJinglejanglejingle No, I just believe that people who have yet to reach a level of technological advancement deserve as much help as those who have and certainly they do not deserve to have their entire species wiped out, especially if it is due to factors completely outside of their control
@@MrJinglejanglejingle That was a bad faith reply. Humanitarian assistance is not a form of "imperialism," and you know it.
"Hey!" "You are way out of bounds here!"
Therapy was a boss mom move. Mariner needs it XD
No, she needs a LOBOTOMY!
Beckett may need some therapy. I mean...she likes being demoted and clearly experienced some kind of trauma in her past that made her this way.
There was that flashback in episode I want to say 5 where one of her friends was eaten alive by a shapeshifting space hell beast and there is a pervading theory that she fought in the Klingon war of 2372 I think that’s the year it started and the dominion war of 2373-2375 so she’s probably a bit messed up from that she kind of goes off on some of the crap she’s gone through in episode one. It’s how her therapist goes about treating her is what is going to help
Yeep, season 4 confirms it
I like that Freeman took a reasonable approach instead of doing the Dear Doctor course of nature bullshit
Helps that the planet now knows the Federation is real, might as well give them something that end their hunger
To be fair, they were intentionally doing a reference to the 2003 invasion of Iraq with all the talk of "freedom" and the toppling of the statue.
Holy shit your right I didnt catch that
At least the Federation isn't staying there for 20 years for oil. And they give food replicators away.
@@baabaaer When did the US get any oil from that endeavor? It's a conspiracy theory grounded on anti-American bigotry, not something that actually happened.
@@baabaaer were not in a post scarcity society.
If she was in the 23rd century, this would pass lol
No, she would have to arm the rodents and the lizards witht the same weapons and let them sort it out in a bloody, protracted war like Kirk did.
@@thiagodeandrade7081 "well we are delicious"
I know this is a cartoon, but man....there's no way a captain would have THIS MUCH PATIENCE for such an insubordinate (albeit well meaning) officer. She's getting major rope for being the daughter.
The episode addresses this directly.
I don't know about that. Picard was willing to look the other way when Dr. Crusher's act of direct insubordination in "The High Ground" ended up getting both of them held hostage by terrorists and nearly got the Enterprise destroyed...
@@Robert-hz9bj i mean nepatism is rampant throughout starfleet
Its just waaaaay worse when it comes to family
Another prime example
Admiral Paris protected Tom when his mistake should have put him in jail, or worse, but all he got was demoted and was on his way out of starfleet solely because his dad is an admiral
@Chris Caldwell lol. no sisko would have gone back in time to make sure he was never born.
@@Robert-hz9bj Or the time she started a religion and Picard had to die to stop it.
You don't screw the prime directive. The Prime Directive screws you!
Everybody needs to seriously lighten up. THIS IS A COMEDY, PEOPLE !! Of course they're going to play situations for laughs !
Then why is it dispensing nostalgia like a broken record? Why are they part of starfleet? Just be a pirate or a trader ship or a cruise ship or something.
This show wants to have it both ways, it wants to be a Star Trek series and a Rick and Morty cartoon. Those things don't mix well.
If this was a parody then why is it taking about Star Trek things that were serious? If it wants to be it's own thing then it needs to stop with the nostalgia because that is like adding wine to a cup of soda pop. Just do it's own thing!
@@danhair you have a point, I like this show but I disagree with its choice to be Star Trek themed. I believe it would hav been fine on its own with its own story and context
And yet, ironically, there don't seem to be a lot of truly happy people in this show. There's smugness when someone (Becket) gets their way, but that's about it.
I do love that Migleemo is introduced as "The worst counselor in the fleet" but he is still very good at his job and does help a lot of people work through whatever problems they have.
I love that the captain is all for following the rules, other than her obvious nepotism when dealing with her daughters crimes
Ex-Ensign Beckett is going to have one of the shortest Starfleet careers on record. What a shame the Maquis aren't around anymore to recruit her!
hmm, dunno. Im sure shed fit right in on DS9
She's perfect for the Maquis right!?
Ben Russel-Gough: you heard Cap. Freeman, she's only on the USS Cheetos because her mom's captain. Obviously Starfleet is about who you KNOW, just like Wesley got to be a bridge-officer cuz Picard was his future step-daddy.
@@kenburns4547 Ensign Marty Stu... sorry, Wesley, was a bit of a special case. As Starfleet's equivalent of Rey Palpatine, none of the rules applied to him because He Was Just Awesome Like That. I literally don't know what Roddenberry was smoking when he created the character.
Blame that on Picard. If Picard wasn't assimilated before Wolf 359, Sisko's wife and ship won't be destroyed, he won't be floating around, he won't go to DS9, then he won't have found the wormhole, thus the Dominion won't come and Marquis won't be crushed like that. :)
Finally after 9 episode, the word "therapy" was mentioned
She doesn't need therapy like Spongebob doesn't need seawater
It needs to be mentioned more. In fact they all need therapy!
I love how she calls everyone 'buddy'
Me too
Is it me or does Mariner indulge in self-destructive behavior?
Was this the first episode you watched? Because if you watched it from the beginning, you'd have picked up on that long ago.
this episode address that.
She did accidentally cut one of her friends with a Klingon weapon when drunk
That's the joke.
I still would want Mariner as an ensign on my crew if I had a dream crew (along with Tendi, Data, Spock, Dr. Phlox, Ezri, Bashir, etc...)
Epic dream crew, man!
Yeah every crew needs a spastic Mary Sue bitch
@@kenburns4547 You don't even know what "Mary Sue" means lol XD
@@kenburns4547Mariner is annoying for sure, but FAR from a Mary Sue. That would be Burnham from STD. Mariner has all sort of flaws, gets called on them, and they tend bite her in the ass. Episode 9 she even admits she would be done in Starfleet if her mother ever kicked her off the ship.
That is a pretty good crew especially for some kind of medivac ship
1:25 "Oh, you're not going to the brig. You're going to therapy!"
Those lizard people were so damm cute
0:53 dude licking his chops, imagining lizard steak
Yep Becki needs therapy and I fully agree.
Especially with her issues with her mother that is driving her insane.
No cap this was a great episode. Mariner really had to learn herself
The prime directive: do nothing, allow evil and an uncountable number of deaths rather than take action and responsibility for what you do
Many of what you said has been used to justify the Iraq war nation building is never as clean cut as that unfortunately I wish it was
Slacker 28 ok, but what about those instances where Picard let civilisations be wiped out when it was perfectly within his power to save them?
@@vexxama yeah you do have a good point on those
Yes, because races that reach the stars tend to have overcome those aspects of themselves and find a balance and stability that results in a race capable of interacting on some level with other races. By short changing those races their time to grow and leave the cradle Star Fleet is only hurting them as a species. Until a species gets warp travel they are usually hands off as far as Star Fleet and the Federation are considered. As for your comment on Picard not saving people, he says it himself, they don't know if that race was supposed to survive, and they don't know if that race could adapt to the wider universe. By saving them t hey are playing god and trying to say they know better than the universe. The prime direct is there for a reason because of how many races were altered, experimented on, or destroyed by higher tech races coming in and playing god.
We cant impose our own (democratic) values on alien cultures and civilization
“I DONT NEED THERAPY “!!!
"One to beam up."
The lizard people are a mood.
Only until they are food pellets.
Lol, Mariner was so powerful she started a revolution and overthrew the current government in 1 day. WOW.
advanced technology for the win
Medival planet and one city, with interstellar technology.
Offscreen, no less. Just another day in Starfleet.
She used a sledgehammer to crack open a walnut. It's not the why, but the how that's the problem.
Best opening so far!
Most of us would rather do this than Starfleet
Like T'lyn, Ensign Mariner is something of a maverick, renegade, and defier or policies.
But, she she does what is necessary to get results. Even if it means crossing the line every now and then.
No-one in the comments seems to mention that the implication of nutrient pellets is that it's the easiest food for the lizards to be fattened up with. the leader is going to take things right back to the way they were before. (nutrient pellets are worse than the delicious lizards, so its not for the ruler to eat for sure)
plus it sounds like the lizards eat each other, so im not sure how long they would have lasted.
You tell em, Mariner, screw the prime directive! :D
Ohh I like this artsytle! It's nothing groundbreaking, but it's got its own charm.
The prime directive should be a case by case basis thing. A blanket rule like that is amoral.
they use a fucking zero tolerance mentality......zero tolerance = zero thinking.
"Well... we are delicious" 🤤
By handing over Replicator technology isnt the Captain herself breaking the Prime Directive?
If those races were encountered before by the feds then no. It's only food so whatever anyway
I mean, her daughter DID completely destroyed it in the first place so..... not like making a compromise to salvage it would be any worse.
no because they were already accepted by the federation. at worse a breach in the protocol by handing technology too early.
@@JayJayM57 i think the main problem is that they where peaceful the day before.
with the prime directive already broken to the point of a civil war, there has to be a way to at least bring things to peace.
its not like other episodes of star track they can just say hay dont tell anyone about us because only a few people where affected.
this is a tad bigger XD
at this point its already broken.
@@LockCard you are correct.
I can’t help but wonder about what happens after they get the replicators. Assuming, the rats stop eating the lizards what will happen to their population, will they be culled as the rats don’t need them any more? Will their population grow into an ecological disaster? How will the replicators be powered?
On the other hand what could come from the revolution? Will there be food problems? Will there be a power vacuum, especially once Mariner leaves? Do some Lizards genuinely find cannibalism tasty and could a lizard group start oppressing others as food?
See this shit is why the prime directives exsists, no matter how pure there intentions that interference ripples out in ways they cannot fully comprehend. Who knows what kind of butterfly effect this will have on there society and culture. I mean just look at us we still cant fix our own society and culture, what makes these people think they can fix a culture completely alien to them without consequences?
1:10 Dang, girl! I know things are feeling really stupid right now! But... actually, that tablet isn't really important.
At least they were able to get some use out of that buggy from Nemesis.
I needed that.
Im Captain Gordon Freeman of the intergalactic house of pancakes ordering you to open !
Most of the problems is her mother
Sort of. Most of her problems are her *relationship* with her mother. Under no circumstances let her stay on the Ceritos. Transfer her over to one of those ships that could use someone with her 'skill-set' like the Defiant or the Enterprise-F.
I'd give her a solid three months. Either she'd be an Away Team Member #6 fatality or she'l be promoted to Lt J. G. and become a semi-recurring character.
Dude spoilers.
@@benrussell-gough1201 considering she already a season Starfleet officer she is unlikely to be any team fatality.
The Anticans and the Selay. I will not hear any other arguments.
No shame in therapy, no matter the certainty.
I know this is a star trek universe but since when did lizardmen became food to the ratmen or should I say the Skaven!!!
This looks a lot like Final Space and seems to be what Final Space wanted to be
That shop has sailed. The Gary has to find a way to defeat that monster now.
AH!
Oh wait you weren't kidding...
You really need to Watch Final Space again.
Hang on when they say one to beam up, who do they know which one to take?
You know, it would be hilarious if a Captain were to say "one to beam up," and then the transporter technician were to beam up some random person because of the lack of details.
Usually it's the one talking, but here I don't get it at all.
She told the transporter operator to lock onto Mariner and wait for her command before she beamed down...
The crew's probably dealt with Mariner long enough to know when she's the one getting beamed up.
mariner suffers from ptsd
Beckett is Not Guilty.
Honestly, if the lizardmans like to be eaten and don't see a problem with it, let them be eaten, don't lose your times with morons that prefer servitude rather than doing something with themselves.
the 80's? i think i missed something somewhere.
2380s
If the people are not at war with themselves then there is less paperwork for the captain, so she violates the prime directive and gives the people advanced food replication tech. Two wrongs make a right, or at least a good enough.
Mariner is of kilter here, the report in question is because she didn’t inform the Captain.
No if the captain wasnt her mother she probably wouldnt be in STARFLEET anymore given all the shit shes done
1:31 4th wall-break📺🌌
Mariner is way out of line, both as a subordinate and as a daughter, you cannot and should never call your superior officer or mother a bitch, especially someone who is both, right in front of her. She has no understanding of respect, disagreeing with somebody's view points is okay, but flat out just disrespecting them is not okay
1:28 WHAT
Christ, this kid is the reason why the cane was invented. Eastern European style.
😎😎😎 yes I like this A LOT
U think starfleet would remove both of them from serving. It's obvious the Captain is playing favorites.
So it is not easy being a ensign with so many rules
I mean she did break the number 1 rule of Star Trek, don’t interfere. God even Pike wouldn’t be this brash
Prime directive
imma need the outro song
oh god, the pacing is too fast.
This is one of those moments when you really don’t know whether you like Mariner or not. The Prime Directive is Starfleet’s most sacred law and for her to just blatantly disregard it is why she wouldn’t last long anywhere else
Joshua Wells: Mary Sues get a free pass; like Janeway in Endgame; where she cooperates with her future self to alter the timeline, destroying decades of history; and she gets promoted to admiral for it.
@@kenburns4547 how is she a Mary Sue? in this very clip her own mother tells her that if they weren't related she would be flat on her ass on the unemployment line.
Not to mention the fact that the clip ends with Mariner being sent to a therapist.
The Prime Directive is a principle and a law, just like any other. We run into problems when people turn it into inflexible dogma to be obeyed regardless of the cost.
Funny.
I'm So Very Glad-I See-A Therapists!-Like Many Famous People!-It Helps Me-Alot!&Sometimes-They're-My Best Friends-Too!-Raymond "Mike" Hong!&(Go See-A Therapists-It Doesn't Hurt-It'll Hellp YOU-Even More!&Help You-Become-A BETTER PERSON!-Like ME!-Mike!)😎👍!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, Captain Freeman...must be taken down. Like, breaking through the pavement down and drag whoever supported her sneaky, kaniving methods with her!
Anyone else get BPD vibes from Mariner?
I was thinking more ADHD actually.
What is her problem?
Basically a whole host of psychiatric problems that she refuses to seek treatment for
Once again Starfleet is willing to accept hey uneasy peace at the expense of the death of another species.
Funny
Dude…she’s a bad mom
She's a stressed mom. And Beckett doesn't help with that.
I want people to watch this clip each time they think Mariner is a strong, independent Kirk-like main character. This clip right here shows you all you need to know about her: spoiled, self-centered and irresponsible.
Actually according to this clip she's all of the above. Also she can overthrow governments on her own
Spoiled, self-centered, and irresponsible Mariner may or may not be, but I don’t think a clip in which she interferes with the governance of an alien world in order to save one sapient species from being oppressed and outright eaten by another is really the best way to illustrate it, or even a good way to illustrate it; her only crime here is going around Starfleet’s rules to do it. It’s otherwise not really that far removed from what Kirk did in “The Cloud Minders”.
@@blondiewan3331 She used a sonic cleaning device to activate a weapon of weird energy that infected Ransom. She gave inventions to an uncivilized race who barely invented anything itself.
Saying that you are respecting a species by giving them stuff is like the Inperial Army creating cargo cultures around the indigenous people of the islands the occupied during WW1 and WW2. And now because of them they venerate the planes and people like gods of gifts. Or how Kirk proved in the movie Into Darkness that you can replace one diety for another.
The way the prime directive was created was based on the human encounters of civilizations and how they poisoned/deluded their cultures to extinction.
But I guess this show is too childish to explore those kinds of ideas.
@@danhair, those scenes aren’t part of this clip.
The prime directive is a shit policy and largely indefensible. It’s the federations way of playing god while ignoring all moral imperatives for the less fortunate. “Oh I’m sorry your species is being wiped out by a serious of disasters brought upon by acts of nature, but if i help your dying people you might want my technology or emulate my culture before you’re supposed to. Anyway enjoy burying another kid in a catastrophe I could total prevent! If your species survives what is most likely the damnation of your world, we’ll contact you in a few hundred years.”
I mean the very attitude that spawned the prime directive is based 1) on a Darwinistic mindset, as in the strong will advance and survive to space faring status while the weak or unfortunate die off, approach 2) that humanity can only interfere negatively with other people and 3) that despite being a literal utopian abundance, you have no moral obligation to help those dying. If we followed the prime directive then foreign aid to underdeveloped countries would be illegal. Food donations, charity organizations like the Red Cross, habit for Humanity, Peace Corps etc all would be illegal. We’d ignore the Ebola crisis in west Africa, the refugee crisis from the Middle East, still have polio, smallpox and every other nasty disease we’ve eradicated festering in the underdeveloped corners of the world. I’m not saying humanity has a very good track record of collectively responding to crises and ending human suffering but goddamnit the prime directive would make it even illegal to try.
lizardman and skaven
Hmm this is confusing who handled this scenario the right way her or her ? And huh rats eats lizards was that nature on earth I mean my knowledge on reptiles was 🦎🍴🐀 and 🐍🍴🐁. but huh also the hell it's the 80s still hmm well I guess this cartoon does has a lil bit of the jetsons inspite Janet waldo voicing she was judy it being Hanna and Barbera 1960 to 1980 yeah uh. Oh man everyone say that bout her 1:34 even her mom golly ok 1:41 the bird shrink that's green ? Eh
2380
I mean it's called the "PRIME" directive for a reason lol apparently Mariner is a zoomer?
This takes place in the 24th century. All the zoomers are long-dead.
1:32
Who made her god?
To quote Q, "Oh, please."
So, as much as I know this is a comedy, this is HUGELY lore breaking. No one just casually breaks the Prime Directive and just gets away with it.
Also the captain going "the planet was perfectly peaceful". Ignoring the daily mass murders.
.....um no that happens alot actually
she gets my RESPECT for it.
The worst part of evil is not the evil itself, but those who can fight the evil that dont.
Whether or not you can get away with breaking the prime directive varies from show to show, even from week to week
It doesn’t matter if the planet was peaceful or not, if there were mass murders or not. The entire point and philosophy of the Prime Directive is that we cannot know what effects interfering with an underdeveloped culture can be. And more over, we have no RIGHT to do so! EVERYONE now a days like to shriek that “colonialism is wrong.” But when you enforce your morals on another culture how is that not colonialism?
2020
dororo
If the rat people are willing to accept replicated food, doesn't that mean they have no other choice but to eat the lizard people? So in order to free one race, Mariner was willing to genocide another. Archer's brand of first contacts is still alive in the future.
Not necessarily. It seems more like they would be capable to have other food sources but rely mostly on the lizzards.
Keep in mind, these lizzard people need food as well, so farming seems to be an option.
I wouldn't be surprised if the lizzard people aside of food are also used for other slave labor.
The rat king did not ask if replicators can imitate any taste, he asked for something very basic.
@@schwarzerritter5724 Which still leaves the question open, what the Lizzards eat if even basic food is not available.
To raise animals, let alone some sentient lifeform as cettle requires some form of steady food source.
So options have to be there, the Rats just don't seem to use them if if loosing the Slaves as food would mean they would starve.
That being said the Rat King didn't seem to be to concerned about starvation either.
@@shadowhunter0815 The Food issue may be a primary concern but solving it will still leave two very angry races with generations of distrust and hatred. It seems inevitable these civilizations will go to war, only difference is federation interference could effect the caliber of the conflict. If one side could say hack a food replicator and us it to build weapons they could gain the upper hand and cause environmental damage to the planet.
Maguss
There is not necessarily nothing else to eat, just nothing else the rat people can eat. For example, humans can not eat grass, but humans can eat cows who can eat grass.
Crack open another spud, it's another episode of star trek lower HQ.
L
I can see how this is essentially a Rick and Morty ripoff... funny becuz they were a parody of Doc and Marty.
This is really bad. ☹
Bad show 🤔
I'm really surprised she hadn't been kicked out of Starfleet yet. Yet another reason this show blows.
MORON
Her Admiral father and Captain mother are the only reasons she hasn't.
They literally spell out why she hasn't been kicked out of starfleet in this clip.
This is fucking horrible
This sucks. It's like some Nickelodeon writers were just given bullets from Star Trek to pepper into their typical formula
This may be some of the worst dialogue I’ve ever heard in a tv show.
Haven't watched that much tv then.
Did Nerdrotic tell you that?
diosoth who?
@@immortallvulture hes a youtuber who hates everything.