Second Reality for Apple II

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  • Опубліковано 1 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 119

  • @samulisyvahuoko7140
    @samulisyvahuoko7140 Рік тому +121

    Wow, just wow! Greetings from GORE / Future Crew

    • @thezood
      @thezood Рік тому +20

      High praise from one of the original maestros :)

  • @MichaelPuterbaugh
    @MichaelPuterbaugh Рік тому +30

    I like the creativity in how some of the original effects are approximated or implied despite the Apple's hardware limitations.

  • @cybernit3
    @cybernit3 Рік тому +10

    Next project make a Apple 2GS version, it might be fairly decent with that. Apple 2GS was sort of like an Amiga 500 I believe....

  • @xargos
    @xargos Рік тому +12

    Never in my wildest dreams did I expect to see a version of this on the Apple IIe! It's quite a nice surprise.

  • @bergles1
    @bergles1 Рік тому +15

    this is awesome... I'm saying "get down" and "10 seconds to transmission" right on cue years later

  • @rainerblessing923
    @rainerblessing923 Рік тому +22

    Now we need a version for the Atari 2600.

  • @charlesjmouse
    @charlesjmouse Рік тому +15

    An amazing demo, especially given the hardware...
    It does show how very limited the Apple II really is. Most 'old' computer demos unlock abilities often their designers didn't know about, but in the Apple II Woz had already used every trick in the book just to get the system to run competitively - no custom hardware, not even the convenience of a CRTC. For all the coding excellence on show here this demo would have likely been impossible without a Mockingboard taking care of sound, timing, and interrupts. Well done Mr Demo Coder, and well done Woz.
    PS: For the slow of thinking I have a soft spot for the Apple II - for what little it is it does an amazingly good job. Also it's utter simplicity and expansion slots make upgrades easy.

    • @kargaroc386
      @kargaroc386 Рік тому +2

      And this demo *pays the price.*

    • @deater78
      @deater78  Рік тому +4

      there are a few tricks to unlock on Apple II. Biggest is "vapor-lock" to get vsync from the floating bus and then do mid-screen mode switching. However that's difficult to pull off and wouldn't have really added much to any of the effects in second reality
      a trick that would be useful is being able to play music while loading from disk. It's extremely difficult but at least two groups have done it before. It would be really handy for this demo but probably not worth the effort.

  • @Lofote
    @Lofote Рік тому +6

    This also shows very good, how essential the graphics chip was in the 80s. Because the CPU was (basically) the same on the C64 and also same speed... but the C64 version looks sooo much better and also faster. :)
    Still: my respect to the programmers here :)

  • @ProBloggerWorld
    @ProBloggerWorld Рік тому +17

    From his website:
    Q. I think the whole thing looks ugly and lazy
    A. Maybe. Like a lot of my retro projects, this started as a joke that got out of hand. Then I ended up spending 2 months working on it, which is a lot considering I don't even like Second Reality that much. Then finally, in typical demoscene fashion, the deadline was a week away so I worked late hours slapping together whatever effects I could manage and just barely got something reasonable together minutes before the deadline.
    /
    I can relate. 😅

    • @Sinistar1983
      @Sinistar1983 Рік тому +1

      Ugly is not what I'd describe it. A technical marvel is a more fitting description.

  • @mtuomi
    @mtuomi 10 місяців тому +5

    Very impressive!!❤ Trug/Future Crew

  • @niner8275
    @niner8275 Рік тому +14

    Thinking of how ridiculously complicated it is to just position and color pixels on an AppleII (tried that 34 years ago), anything fullscreen animated with > 1 fps is stunning! Very good job!

    • @niner8275
      @niner8275 Рік тому +2

      @@johnrcornell I rather meant programming them as animations. In Basic you do have commands for drawing lines that will do all the work for you. But once you need faster graphics, you will have to do it in 6502 assembly and then you discover stuff like that the video buffer isn't laid out linear from top to button but interlaced on 2 levels and much more! Of course with integer basic or even the other basic (I think it was from MS), you also could do animations, but at a very low framerate compared to assembly.

    • @ffelix916
      @ffelix916 Рік тому +3

      @@niner8275 Interlace was done that way (3 sections of 64 lines, each section interlaced 8:1 if i recall?) because it saved Steve Jobs one single TTL IC :D To do proper linear video, they would've needed an additional frame buffer IC, or much much faster main memory. There was a really simple routine somewhere in ROM that you could reference that mapped linear Y coordinate to scanline base memory address. It was only about 20 ops, if my memory serves. That can add up, though, if you're trying to do fast animation, so some people just sacrifice a little memory and use lookup tables.

    • @colinltube
      @colinltube Рік тому

      @@ffelix916 *Steve Wozniak ;)

    • @RobinDale50
      @RobinDale50 8 місяців тому

      I recently worked on a tile-based renderer using Ultima tiles to see just how fast it would be possible to spit out that Ultima screen. Turns out you can get around 15fps if you don't care about memory efficiency. That covers about half the entire screen (11x 11 tile grid, 16x16 pixels per tile). I have a video series on my channel about it, showing the (Approximate) original frame rate of the Ultima games and my version, which also included a more memory efficient, but slower, method. I totally used lookup tables for each graphics line/row

    • @saganandroid4175
      @saganandroid4175 6 місяців тому

      @@ffelix916 Give the insane non-linearity, and the address holes, I found text mode impossible to tolerate. I can't imagine dealing in bitmaps. DHR is even worse. But I would love to know the call for this routine to convert a caertesian coordinate to an actual pixel address. I know tables seem essential for all screen related things on the AppleII series.

  • @gaborszabo6406
    @gaborszabo6406 5 місяців тому +2

    Impressive demo for this machine!

  • @JonAbbott
    @JonAbbott Рік тому +3

    Fantastic job! Certainly brings back memories of both the Apple ][ and Second Reality.

  • @ancipital
    @ancipital Рік тому +7

    Pretty amazing for a machine with no custom chips, a hard to work with graphics display (saw a video about how hard it was to work with recently), a purposefully crippled CPU by apple (to not step on the toes of their more expensive machines of the time) and literally everything having to go through the CPU due to no offloading of any tasks to other chips

    • @nrdesign1991
      @nrdesign1991 Рік тому +1

      The next level would only be a Micro Controller like in LFT's "craft" demo where literally everything is running on bare metal

    • @bryede
      @bryede 11 місяців тому

      Apple didn't intentionally cripple the Apple II, it's just the victim of Woz's minimalist design that originally used only off-the-shelf parts. When it came out in 1977 they had no competing product lines (the Lisa shipped in 1983) and I imagine you're thinking of IBM who had an entire mainframe division.

  • @RonaldoGazel
    @RonaldoGazel Рік тому +1

    Absolutely amazing.

  • @ChrisR
    @ChrisR Рік тому +2

    Son, I am Impress. This is a fantastic accomplishment.

  • @ozzie_goat
    @ozzie_goat Рік тому +13

    Don't know whether to consider it blasphemous or amazing

  • @inphanta
    @inphanta Рік тому +3

    I like the music. Trying to do this particular demo on Apple II was probably a little too ambitious though.

  • @AxelDragani
    @AxelDragani Рік тому +5

    I need this demo to become the next Bad Apple!

  • @iamjustaclone
    @iamjustaclone Рік тому +2

    fantastic !! :) brings back memories... great achievement well done and funny details "apologies to: Future Crew" hahaha :->

  • @ggoedert
    @ggoedert Рік тому +3

    Apologies to Future Crew...! :-D It is possible that someone from Future Crew did have an European Apple II clone... The first crack screens appeared on Apple II's...

    • @julienbraudel7109
      @julienbraudel7109 Рік тому +1

      Apple II were sold in Europe, not clones specifically. That is the reason why some of the earliest crackers were French. Computer Club had Apple II in France, and imported games were very expensive.

  • @fenriswolf039
    @fenriswolf039 Рік тому +1

    Blown away. Well done!

  • @TheGoofy-Mouse
    @TheGoofy-Mouse 25 днів тому

    This Apple is burning to do this

  • @BrendanRobert
    @BrendanRobert Рік тому +5

    Deater, as always: YOU MADMAN! :) Kudos, this is a fantastic demake. Also Zoom and Ma2e did amazing work with the soundtrack. Really captured a lot of the spirit of the original S3M soundtrack. Also, lots of respect that you kept "FC '93" on the buildings in the end and the original authors in the credits. All around, thank you and fantastic stuff.
    ][ Infinitum!

  • @retropuffer2986
    @retropuffer2986 Рік тому +1

    Just amazing! 🤯

  • @kilianhekhuis
    @kilianhekhuis Рік тому +1

    Very impressive! Btw at 10:35 there's credits for a part that's not in the demo, or did I miss something?

  • @janhallholm9043
    @janhallholm9043 Рік тому +1

    Mind blowing so good sound from Apple II

  • @merman1974
    @merman1974 Рік тому

    I'm impressed, clever code is supported well by the graphics and music. Love the chunky 3D city and the familiar blue ray-tracing part. Top work.

  • @benjaminhanke79
    @benjaminhanke79 7 місяців тому +2

    Is the C64 version that you can find here on UA-cam fake? If not it looks like that the Apple2 was about ten times less capable than the C64, even if they're both based on the 6502.

    • @gaborszabo6406
      @gaborszabo6406 5 місяців тому +2

      Not fake. Commodore 64 is much improved machine with special chips, like sid. Processor is almost the same yes, but nothing else.

  • @Metallumtenebrarum-jt7rd
    @Metallumtenebrarum-jt7rd 4 місяці тому

    Sounds like a ZX spectrum demo (both the mockingboard and the 128k spectrum has the same sound chip)

  • @Nbrother1607
    @Nbrother1607 21 день тому

    I checked the "final" version and the *only* difference was the end where the flying thing approached the "Future Crew" text

    • @deater78
      @deater78  11 днів тому +1

      final version is still under construction. without a deadline it's low priority. I have much better scroll code ready to put into it and working on actual 3d, just haven't had the time

  • @Nbrother1607
    @Nbrother1607 21 день тому

    I pressed ESC while it was running and it skipped a part

  • @GarthBeagle
    @GarthBeagle Рік тому

    Incredible!

  • @Lollero200q
    @Lollero200q Рік тому +3

    Atomic playboys

  • @kaerucraft7100
    @kaerucraft7100 2 місяці тому

    Is there an audience reaction from the Demosplash 2023?

  • @kaerucraft7100
    @kaerucraft7100 5 місяців тому +1

    I don't have any knowledge of the Apple II performances. Can someone tell me how powerful is this demo? I'm still amazed :D

    • @JH-pe3ro
      @JH-pe3ro 5 місяців тому

      The Apple II is one of the earliest microcomputer systems, and while it supports color bitmap display in a few different modes(all are basically variants on "chunky" modes), it doesn't offer anything to accelerate that, so everything you're seeing in this version of Second Reality is what the 6502 itself can do to push pixels, plus the Mockingboard sound card. Doing any kind of animation or raster effects on it is relatively tedious and won't look smooth, so the demo is a good port, but also roughly what one would expect out of the machine.

    • @kaerucraft7100
      @kaerucraft7100 5 місяців тому +1

      @@JH-pe3ro Okay, thanks for the explanation! I searched some documentation about the machine, and yeah, the system is very limited. I really like to see and explore the limits of retro machines like the Commodore 64, thanks again for the explanation!

  • @steampunkscientist
    @steampunkscientist Рік тому

    What a way to overcome the limitations of that machine.

  •  10 місяців тому

    awesome!

  • @LouisSerieusement
    @LouisSerieusement 6 місяців тому

    amazing

  • @CorporalDanLives
    @CorporalDanLives Рік тому +2

    Omg Apple II rotozoomer!!!!

  • @DrWakey
    @DrWakey Рік тому +3

    But will it run Crysis?

  • @Radek0582
    @Radek0582 Рік тому

    wow, just wow

  • @AiOinc1
    @AiOinc1 Рік тому +1

    Incredible! I'm so glad people are remastering one of my favorite demos for other platforms. It gets more and more impressive every time.

    • @herrbonk3635
      @herrbonk3635 Рік тому +1

      _"remastering"_ ...?? How do you logically justify a word like that?

    • @AiOinc1
      @AiOinc1 Рік тому

      ​@@herrbonk3635I'm not sure I understand your question.

    • @herrbonk3635
      @herrbonk3635 Рік тому

      @@AiOinc1 Listen to the word! It says something along the lines of "making a master again". What is that supposed to mean in this context?

  • @alexanderbjork6451
    @alexanderbjork6451 Рік тому

    Impressive 🙂👍

  • @xcoder1122
    @xcoder1122 Рік тому

    How much faster would the graphics be without the music? I assume the music takes up a decent chunk of all CPU resources and I'm not talking about the creation of the output data (pitch shifting, channel mixing, etc.), I'm talking about playing that data. IIRC most Apple II games stopped all animation when playing full sound effects, as just playing them used so much CPU time, that no decent animation was possible at the same time. Or they just used some very short beeps, pops and crackling sounds, which were not played continuously and thus allowed to perform some animation in between; like in Prince of Persia, where the sound effects sounded like crackling noise from a broken speaker. So without the music, the graphics would be significant faster, wouldn't they?

    • @deater78
      @deater78  Рік тому

      the music is using a Mockingboard card. It's not bitbanging the speaker. It's playing a tracked PT3 file which takes about 10-20% overhead. Playing raw AY-3-8910 (ym5-style) music would have essentially 0 overhead, but in that case you need to write ~10 registers 50 times a second (so roughly 30k of data per minute) so you can see why that isn't the best idea

  • @whophd
    @whophd Рік тому

    What's going on at 6:00 ? What mode is that?

    • @colinltube
      @colinltube Рік тому +1

      Deater said somewhere else it's HGR mode but updating only half the lines for twice the speed

  • @eternalcheesecake
    @eternalcheesecake Рік тому

    I was thinking, is this on a hard drive image? And then it prompts to insert disk side 2!

  • @Sakanakao
    @Sakanakao Рік тому +2

    Quite Unreal. 2. ^_^

  • @un2mensch
    @un2mensch Рік тому

    Fucking incredible!

  • @kaerucraft7100
    @kaerucraft7100 5 місяців тому

    The sound of the video seems different compared to an emulation. how to reproduce this effect?

    • @deater78
      @deater78  4 місяці тому +1

      the real life Mockingboard card has a lot of limitations that make it sound a bit different (usually described as "worse") than the perfect AY-3-8910 emulation found in emulators

    • @kaerucraft7100
      @kaerucraft7100 4 місяці тому

      @@deater78 I don't know why, but the real life mockingbird sounds better 👌

  • @sepehrasadi5997
    @sepehrasadi5997 12 днів тому

    HOLY FUCK!

  • @CarlosPardo
    @CarlosPardo Рік тому

    Kudos !

  • @kargaroc386
    @kargaroc386 Рік тому +2

    I watched Second Reality C64 before this. *Oh no.*

  • @gctechs
    @gctechs Рік тому +4

    Next try Casio calculator

  • @sbarker06
    @sbarker06 Рік тому

    Can someone please upscale this video?

    • @clray123
      @clray123 Рік тому

      How did you think the "original" Second Reality had been produced?

  • @nematolvajkergetok5104
    @nematolvajkergetok5104 Рік тому +1

    My mind was blown by the original 1993 version. Then again by the Commodore 64 version in 1997. Now you blew it even further. Please stop.

  • @lastawake2822
    @lastawake2822 Рік тому +2

    Whoa, impressive as hell. o.o I can't wrap my head around fact that you've coded this demo on computer with cpu used also in NES. BTW, would it be possible to make NES version? I don't know a thing about programing, especially on that kind of machines, but my wild guess - it would not work due to memory limitations, am I right?

    • @JSwanson547
      @JSwanson547 Рік тому +2

      Let's not rule anything out just yet. It was quite common to include extra stuff in the cartridges, after all.

    • @ZamuelAtari
      @ZamuelAtari Рік тому +5

      The c64 version is also very impressive. Almost the same as the original on PC

    • @lastawake2822
      @lastawake2822 Рік тому +5

      @@ZamuelAtari Agreed, c64 version is great indeed. So i'm waiting for NES version. 🤷

  • @IapetusRetroStuff
    @IapetusRetroStuff Рік тому +1

    wow

  • @jakubkrcma
    @jakubkrcma Рік тому

    😯❤

  • @DonaldDuckPL
    @DonaldDuckPL 3 місяці тому

  • @Aleamanic
    @Aleamanic Рік тому

    Like a bumble bee, it shouldnt be possible to do this on an A2, but Deater does it anyway ;-)

  • @enfys02
    @enfys02 Рік тому +2

    hahaha brilliant :)

  • @AndrewChapman-j6p
    @AndrewChapman-j6p Рік тому +2

    So we manipulate dots CS102

  • @ZamuelAtari
    @ZamuelAtari Рік тому +2

    The c64 version is also very impressive. Almost the same as the original on PC

  • @bmgrooh
    @bmgrooh Рік тому +16

    The version for C64 is way better

    • @djaccount5458
      @djaccount5458 Рік тому +7

      C64 have better possibilities, apple 2 is first computer with colour screen.

    • @PeranMe
      @PeranMe Рік тому +18

      You should check out the MS-DOS version, that’s even betterer…

    • @tcscomment
      @tcscomment Рік тому +1

      ​@@PeranMethe DOS version is the original one

    • @PeranMe
      @PeranMe Рік тому +8

      @@tcscomment Yes. It is.

    • @MrRobarino
      @MrRobarino Рік тому +1

      Who cares? It's not a competition. It's 2023, why are you still starting these Apple II versus C64 debates? Stupid.

  • @gazzaka
    @gazzaka 11 місяців тому

    lol

  • @gdplayer1035
    @gdplayer1035 18 днів тому

    get it down

  • @Dasan1111
    @Dasan1111 9 місяців тому

    Apple ii's graphic ability was really horrible even at the time.

    • @deater78
      @deater78  9 місяців тому +5

      I'm curious which machine from 1977 you think had better graphics

  • @Роман_К8
    @Роман_К8 Рік тому

    Демо - говно, как и сам Apple II. Единственно, что мне понравилось - саундтрек. Неудивительно, что Apple III. также был провальным проектом. Стремный вообще комп Apple. Как по мне ZX Spectrum то получше будет !!! Это просто похоже на порнографию мира компьютеров... Хуже Эппл только Sinclair QL

  • @lowstaar
    @lowstaar 2 місяці тому

    lol wut

  • @901aerol
    @901aerol Рік тому +2

    Commodore was vastly superior to Apple....and yet Apple is still in business. For shame.

    • @julienbraudel7109
      @julienbraudel7109 Рік тому +3

      We actually don't care.

    • @901aerol
      @901aerol Рік тому +2

      @@julienbraudel7109 why are you gay?

    • @idudas80
      @idudas80 Рік тому +5

      Commodore lost their market share to the PC and console market, not Apple

    • @gaborszabo6406
      @gaborszabo6406 5 місяців тому +1

      Apple lost almost. Commodore destroyed by its marketing peoples :(

  • @carstenmaul7220
    @carstenmaul7220 11 місяців тому

    technically impressive ugliness 🙂

  • @gawd0r
    @gawd0r Рік тому +2

    Holy wow, deater! This is the most amazing thing ever! Kudos for getting this done! I can't imagine how much time you spent on this. Wish I could hear people at demosplash wowing at this

  • @zoltangabordudas4393
    @zoltangabordudas4393 Рік тому

    Lol epic! 😀