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I'm so tired of this... Handheld Reviews and Crowdfunding
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- Опубліковано 18 сер 2024
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Grab yourself a Pint Glass at craftcomputing...
The Handheld PC market has some serious issues right now, and nearly every player in the space is guilty of contributing. There are new models every 3-6 months in every shape and size you can imagine, and all of them launch via Kickstarter or IndieGoGo. It's an industry that has started to rely more on gimmicks and flash rather than user experience and substance... and I've had enough.
But first... What am I drinking???
I Got All These Numbers In My Head, Bellflower Brewing (Portland, ME)
-- Ryzen 8840U Performance Breakdown --
Check out @ThePhawx 's amazing deep dive into the 8840U: • The Best Stays Best - ...
-- Links to OneXPlayer's X1 and X1 Mini Indiegogo campaign --
X1-Mini 8840U-16G+1TB：www.indiegogo....
X1-Mini 8840U-32G+1TB：www.indiegogo....
X1-Mini 8840U-32G+2TB：www.indiegogo....
X1-Mini 8840U-64G+2TB：www.indiegogo....
X1-Mini 8840U-32G+1T+eGPU：www.indiegogo....
X1-Mini 8840U-32G+2T+eGPU：www.indiegogo....
X1-Mini 8840U-64G+2T+eGPU：www.indiegogo....
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Timestamps
0:00 - Intro, Specs + Sponsor
5:07 - Crowdfunding needs to stop
9:53 - Half-baked Software
15:40 - Worst ABXY + DPAD Ever
19:06 - Focus on the things that matter
24:20 - CROWDFUNDING NEEDS TO STOP
25:26 - OneXPlayer's Response Was AWESOME
28:08 - Conclusion and Beer Review
Handheld gaming PCs seem to be in a similar state as RISC-V SBCs or even still some Arm SBCs... keep spamming out new models every couple months (many on a preorder or crowdfunding basis), barely get support for basic features, abandon the device and move on to a newer model... rinse and repeat :(
That's exactly where we're at right now. Spam as many models as possible to market, but not leave any time to actually see what sticks.
Except for the Steam Deck, this thing might not be duper powerful, but as someone who also tested the Legion Go and ROG Ally, the experience, support and solutions are on par with a proper console or PC. I don't even miss Windows on it.
@@mikearisbrocken8507 Well Valve is a big business and I agree it's very solid device with good support. But to original comment, I find it odd and somewhat alarming that markets are spammed with mini PC's that are in market for like less than 6 months and something very similar suddenly spawns into market. To me it feels quite odd and I'd be concerned if device is build from cheapest components that are expected to fail and even some good reviewers have pointed that driver/bios support can be in very bad level.
Sd is good linux too..but windows is more freedom ..i can find games much cheaper if i dont buying just on steam..also power of ally and lenovo go is somwwhere else then steam deck @mikearisbrocken8507
You guys know best what a wild west it is right now, given the demand. I opted to wait for the dust to settle. For home use a $50 tablet, $20 BSP-D8, and Moonlight / Sunshine do everything I need for now.
I don't crowdfund anything anymore. I am a *_customer._* I am not an investor, I am not a bank giving interest free loans. It's not my responsibility or my desire to prop up all these projects.
What do I even get for crowdfunding? At worst they take my money and run. At best, I preordered. No thanks. I'll wait until the product comes out (if it does) and check out some reviews to see if it's worth it before I part with my money.
Crowdfunding can go pound sand as far as I'm concerned.
Crowdfunding isn't investing, you're not getting a return. You're a donator. Which is why crowdfunding was great when it was about small art projects that wouldn't otherwise be made. But tech came in an tricked people into thinking they were investing or pre-ordering.
Not to mention that being an early-adopter almost always sucks (especially this early, prototype quality level almost).
I went in on a few things. One item they never produced and promised refunds then never gave those refunds. Ended up doing a chargeback 2 years after the original "investment". Yes I won that chargeback even though it was well beyond the typical window.
Honestly if I go in on one I don't care about if I get something or not as long as they are transparent about it. I had one production that took a bit over 2 years. Did get all the rewards promised in the end. Another one was a possible film that never happened but eh... They were up front about what it was for. I just didn't notice until later.
Steam Deck delivered what I look for a handheld device: They went the Gameboy approach, not SUPER RAW POWER, but user experience. The customization of controls (that I actually use), enough power for most games, in a 7-8 inch screen I don't need 120Hz or 1080P, mature software (took a while but we got there) and yet they deviated from the Nintendo model by actualñy letting you tinker with it. Hardware and software wise. Slight itterations of the steam deck is what I need, also their pledge for repairability is amazing. All of these are reasons why I kept my Steam Deck infavour of the Ally or Go. They provided an adecuate bridge between PC and console experience. A bridge between custom and customizable software. A bridge between build quality adn repairability. I just need a Steam Deck 2.
The 720p Screen on the Steamdeck is a Pro not a con, especially for games not optimized for Handhelds the larger Pixels are easier to read. The Oled with it's 90hz Display is perfection, putt it in 45hz mode and you have smoth frames and long battery life. I have both and tested an Ally. I stay with my Oled. Hopefully Valve will release a more Powerfull Steamdeck next year in two Variants: Steamdeck 2 with an 7" inch and Steamdeck 2 Plus with an 8" inch. Both with 720p, Oled and 90hz. One for Home Gaming mostly and one for mobile mostly. So two sizes. Even the battery can stay the same. Thats the only improvements Valve may do, when they then keep all the components (Joysticks Buttons etc) the same so they are interchangeable for repairs it would be perfection.
800p screen @@Elkarlo77
they took the nintendo switch approach
@@Elkarlo77Nonsense... You can adjust resolution, this isn't console...
big companies using crowdfunding is just kinda icky for me. it really feels like they are trying to dodge the higher responsibilities in taking actual pre-orders. with all the horror stories ive heard, i just dont think ill ever be up for backing a crowdfunding campaign
also, im definitely not the target market for handhelds, but i find a lot of the reviews kinda same-y, because a lot of the products are kinda same-y. there's just only so much you can do beyond tiny adjustments and the only real questions are "does it suck to hold?" and "how is the battery life?"
Exactly. Hardware internals have reached stagnation because there really is only ONE option... the 7840U. So they try to cram as many 'unique' features as possible to woo potential buyers, but all of those features are basically pointless in a device like this. I don't need a fingerprint scanner, Windows Hello camera, 1600P display, 64GB of Ram, keyboard docks, removable controllers, etc.
Yes. Especially when big company is crowdfunding stuff feels just very odd to me. There aren't any true reasons for them to make such things. Maybe it's to blame gamers as iirc this trend seemed to launch after Kickstarter projects where originally there were few good things like Wasteland 2 I got into and got happy in the end. But when big companies go into funding it's very sketcy. They're given instantly frame to do virtually anything with given funds, without any risks. Star Citizen is perfect example of this. I can't believe people are STILL pushing money to Roberts. Like what the hell?? Haven't people looked into how much money they've already wasted. It's absolutely insane. They're making game that would need several game engine remakes to accomplish everything they're trying to accomplish. I don't believe that game will ever have proper "done" date.
@@CraftComputing I think this is a big point. They try and put in features to differentiate their product but in most cases it just ends up making the product worse. A 1600p display at these screen sizes just kills your battery life and mean you have to crank up cooling to try and keep up. Most people will drop the resolution to fix that but then you are working with a non native resolution and paid more than you should have for the device. 64GB of RAM is also overkill and again uses more battery than 16 or 32GB would. They are chasing numbers on a spec sheet instead of focusing on building an actually good product. At this point there are only 2 handhelds I would recommend. The Steam Deck and the ROG Ally. I prefer the Deck but if someone really wants better game compatibility at the expense of some of the battery life and user experience I would recommend the Ally.
@@chaosfenixThe Legion Go has better battery life than the ROG Ally and it doesn't come with hardware that is known to be broken (SD card slot). All why having a bigger display, faster RAM, and a more sturdy build. The only issue is really the speakers
@@rawdiggitydog Except that the fact that it has a bigger display is part of the problem. The thing is massive. Even with the Ally's problems I still think it is a better windows handheld than all the others. That being said I still think that the Steam Deck is preferable to both.
Jeff talking to handheld designer companies: Stop it, seek some help
The Companies:
"And i took that personal"
Way beyond help. Institutionalize.
These companies will all go completely bankrupt within 6 months if they don't keep up the current production method
Great video, Jeff! To add context, I was also sent the X1 Mini for review, but it had some catastrophic hardware issues that prevented me from fully testing the product. So I returned it to the company and decided that I'll tackle another review once they're ready. I agree that I'd rather have these companies take their time and refine their lineup rather than focus on output.
Main problem I have is the lack of support. All if them have horror stories about units arriving with bad QC and being completely screwed by their support departments being useless.
I've been holding on to getting an Ayaneo Slide since announcement because of this, I want a keyboard in a handheld like my childhood dream the Vaio UX. Thankfully, _Antec_ decided to take on some distribution so I'm finally gonna be buying one of those this weekend.
You could get a gpd win 4 or mini. GPD has become much better in quality and are at this point an established maker or handheld PCs. Never order directly from any of them go though a reputable seller and let them handle support for the devices.
I don't get the value of those really big ones... they are BARELY portable, is it just in case you need to kill a man while you're gaming on the go?
Make an epic DAW/virtual instrument for jamming an gigging tho
Tbh you really can't make insanly small PC based portable. I get the console emulator ones, but PC. Nope. Steam Deck is already on verge that you can read stuff from display.
@@mycosys That niche is already filled by the iPad and it does it really well.
@@BrunodeSouzaLino LMFAO clearly not something you do. Nor would it support literally any of my equipment or software.
@@mycosys Explain the multitude of live equipment with iPad support then.
I always appreciate when creators and reviewers do what they can to keep companies in check. Shit like this is why i haven't bothered "upgrading" from my first run Steam Deck to a newer and more powerful handheld. It's a known quantity that is both getting continued support and isn't being replaced by a new model every 9 months.
I feel like Valve is doing this right. They are doing exactly what you are describing. They have 1 handheld. Yes they have a refresh but it is the same processor and the same form factor. They went with an 800p display because that is what makes sense for this screen size and cpu/gpu power. Yes their processor is a little weaker than others but they have built an amazing platform around it. When the steam deck originally launched there were only like 1000 games that ran well on it. Now there are 15,000 that are at least playable. Valve has made gaming on the steam deck the best linux experience out there.
I feel the same way. The key to the whole thing is to have fantastic software support, and Valve seems to understand that perfectly when it comes to the Steam Deck. The hardware really doesn't matter, and can actually become a hindrance if it is pointlessly over spec'd or comes in too many variations to effectively support from the software side.
I love my Steam Deck, a great system especially when I am at the Airport
There is way more than 15k games working fine on deck. They have only tested small part of the steam games by now. I got like 250 games on steam and i have been testing alot. I got like 5 games that wont work and thats because game devs are too lazy to implement linux support for anticheat wich was made by valve.
I best most games listed in steam works just fine.
@@hornantuutti5157 Yeah I was simply naming what was semi-official. At this point I think the last major software blocker is anti-cheat. The rest are either mostly or entirely addressed by proton. I do hope that Linux keeps getting more popular. 6% between Linux and ChromeOS is better but I think we will need double that before developers start taking Linux desktop more seriously. Maybe with Windows 10 going EOL we will get people moving over after deciding that they don't feel like throwing their older system in the trash.
As for your questions at the end: My personal preference is to get reviews of devices that focus on stuff people using these devices actually care about - It baffles me how many handheld "reviews" are more like "spec sheets and hype-building" than "What it's like to use it."
I want to hear what it's like to actually use a device as intended. How many hours did you play on it? What did you actually find enjoyable to play? Where were you usually at when you played? (Sitting/laying on a couch? Sitting/laying in bed? At a table? In the car?) How long were you able to play on it comfortably? How loud is the cooling fan in an average game running at normal TDP ranges - Loud enough to bother those trying to watch a TV in the same room? Is the screen pleasant to look at? Is it top-heavy?
I think a lot of it is that many reviewers
A.) Want more views
and
B) Want to be sent more handhelds.
If you constantly say "eh this is the same damn thing as the other 9 I've been sent this month" people won't care, and companies won't send you shiny $800 PCs.
Now if only these companies would stop making ROG Ally clones, that'd be cool...
And while this rant goes on im fully satisfied with the original steam deck and will be using it for a long time
The Steam Deck is the gold standard... but it's also barely half as powerful as these new devices. The 800P display can also be limiting in some games. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Steam Deck, but there are some gamers who do want more performance and a better display. My recommendation for that is the OneXFly.
@@CraftComputing But isn't it the only one out there really doing what you are asking for in your video? They have focused a ton on the user experience. They started with like 1000 games that were playable on steamos and that has ballooned to around 15k. The 800p display is a little limiting but it is what is appropriate for the processor they have and they prioritized battery life over raw power. A lot of other handhelds out there have better performance and so do great on the charts but the steam deck has always been top notch in battery life which is kinda important in a handheld. I also think they limited themselves in some ways due to the market segment really being new. They didn't know if people would accept a more powerful device that costs $1000 and so they picked a price point of $400. Those are very real constraints and the steam deck is still amazing even though it is competing with devices 50-100% more expensive than it.
I do hope they launch a steam deck 2 with the HX 370 and maybe a 1200p screen. If they can slap the Ally X's battery into it that would be great. The market has been proven and has shown that there is a demand for a more expensive device. Personally I don't think they should go hog wild though. I would pick like $650-$700 for the entry model and then go up from there. If they go too much more expensive than that I am afraid that a lot of the good rapport they have will disappear.
@@CraftComputing can you list some games that "can be limiting" on a steam deck's screen? cause as far as i have seen from my own deck, every game i've tried works basically perfectly with no resolution issues or oddities
sure the performance is not the best, but it's not a potato by any stretch of the imagination
Yep, there's better, and I would like better, but there's a community around the steam deck that will most likely have any of the same issues I do, and it does enough for what I need. I keep tabs on the new stuff but it's never enough to justify more than just seeing what the current go-to chip is capable of.
Games with UI/UX that are fixed for 1080P. Stardew Valley for example, the UI takes up 25% of your screen, and you have very limited view distance because the render resolution doesn't scale.
This is why I follow your channel. This is one of the most fair reviews I have watched in ages. You gave fair constructive criticisms with a path to solution. You pointed out the positives and at no point did it feel like an attack.
I have been successfully talked out of ordering the OneXPlayer X1 Series: 3-in-1 Console 10.95" AMD 8840U. Thank you for all your time and efforts.
This reminds me of the Bringus studios Ayaneo 2S situation, where ayanei made a handheld that could actually burn you if you used the touch screen and they hand-waived it away as "it's just a prototype"
personally I think when these companies say "it's just a prototype" it's a lie and it's actually the finished unit, and they're using the "prototype" excuse for reviewers to go lighter on it as "it's just a prototype the finished product will be better" but in many cases, no that's really not the case, as soon as these consoles are released they're onto the next handheld with no updates after launch.
The SteamDeck is the only one worthwhile to get. These other models plagued with defects and companies refusing to repair them at their cost or they get abandoned after release. because they are onto the next crowdfunding one
I though about getting the ROG Ally until I heard the horrors of there RMA process and I have a lot of games on Steam so I went with the Steam Deck, worth it! Even upgraded my SSD with it. It was actually my first proper intro into Linux as well, which is now running on my Laptop. Main PC still has Windows 11 Pro.
There are compatibility issues with the steam deck not every single game runs on there so getting a device running Windows has its benefits.
@@bland9876 It does, but the amount of games that do have issues thanks improvements to Proton/Wine have been dwindling luckily. Even "some" games with deep Anti-Cheat are working now like some games with EasyAntiCheat or Battleye. Honestly games with deep Kernel anti-cheat like EA Anti-Cheat are the last games that don't work... and I wouldn't play a game with Kernal level access anyway.
@@bland9876 It is true, but the amount of games that do have issues thanks improvements to Proton/Wine have been dwindling luckily. Even "some" games with deep Anti-Cheat are working now like some games with EasyAntiCheat or Battleye. Honestly games with deep Kernel anti-cheat like EA Anti-Cheat are the last games that don't work... and I wouldn't play a game with Kernal level access anyway.
@@bland9876 It is true, but the amount of games that do have issues thanks improvements to Proton/Wine have been dwindling luckily. Even "some" games with deep Anti-Cheat are working now like some games with EasyAntiCheat or Battleye. Honestly games with deep Kernel anti-cheat like EA Anti-Cheat are the last games that don't work... and I wouldn't give EA Kernal level access anyway.
I think one aspect missed is that crowd funded kit allows a certain 'marketing' of something not yet made, or perhaps only in prototype form.
If I am engineer at some company, and they won't pay for development, but they do allow you to fund some this way - I'm loathe to attack it.
*I've not bought from these pre -purchese methods, but if I did, I'd be careful and accept some risk.
Better return his screwdriver sir! Otherwise you owe him a few beers.
Oh, beer will be had.
After the issue with Asus RMA of GN's ROG Ally, I have decide that the only good Handheld on the market right now. Is the Steam Deck, both for being repairable and having great software support.
I have held off from getting anything new from Asus at this point and I'm looking at getting a Framework for my next laptop. I just wish they had the 2 in 1 hinge.
You might like the GPD Duo
With Asus ROG Ally, Lenovo Legion Go being sold at my local Best Buy and Valve’s superior customer service if anything goes south, there’s no reason to do anymore Kickstarters or IGG for the latest new gaming handheld.
Lol, this couldn't be more incorrect.
Pl Pl Pl keep growing your hair - Wizard Jeff would be so epic, would suit you so well on so many levels (inc aesthetic).
I love handheld PCs. I have been paying attention to them since before the Steam Deck. My first one was the Steam Deck OLED and later on I got both the ROG Ally and Legion Go.
Since then I’ve found myself loving the smaller handhelds. I pick up my Ally more than anything else as it’s not too big to transport. I do not like these handhelds getting bigger and bigger. It makes them less portable and more like a laptop in size.
I’ve also agreed that these companies need to have fewer handhelds. Aya Neo is especially guilty as they’re shipping out new models practically every three months. Consumers are going to be very confused by that. They need to stick with 2 or three product lines that get updated every year or two.
I do agree that battery life and software need to be high priorities. It seems like Asus and Valve are the only ones who understand and ship out good software. Lenovo is lacking and plenty of others are too. Software is very important for the user experience and a bad software environment can make even the best hardware feel frustrating and might even make them feel underpowered
i like watching the amount of beer slowly lower throughout the video
For me its hard to call this a handheld when it's so big and heavy ;[
Right now, I think there are some nice outcomes to this, including a race to the bottom for pricing. If you can find an amazing deal on something used or a seller clearing out stock, you can get a 7840u for a really good deal. I also have found that I need to temper my expectations with these devices, both for performance and support. I have to treat it like something that will break and not have any real way to get it fixed in the short term if replacing something like a fan, battery, or drive doesn't do it. Not a great spot to be in, but if you minimize how much you spend on the device, it isn't as bad.
This is why I still end up going back to my steam deck. Hardware might not be as powerful as a 7840, but the software side is much better.
What I want to see reviewed in handhelds?
Controllers - if they're not Hall effect, don't bother reviewing them. If a company can't be bothered to use better tech than an Atari 2600 in their controls, I won't bother buying them.
Driver compatibility - If they don't have all the drivers I need for a clean install on a well sorted download page, I'm not going to give them my money.
Software - as little as possible please. Joystick mouse support. button remapping, and a simple interface for power/performance settings. Also give me the Pro version of Windows. at the prices you're charging that should be the minimum.
Everything you said except windows, no way I'm buying anything to run that OS haha, I have enough of that torture on my work laptop, on my personal machine, heck nah.
Honestly, having had my Steam Deck 512GB LCD (upgraded to 2TB) for about 10-11 months, pretty much the only thing that'll get me to migrate from it is a revision using a newer APU (say a 9840U?) with support for 2280 NVMe M.2 instead of the 2230 NVMe M.2... Preferably with Valve selling it directly in Aus/NZ with a partnership like EB Games or (as ASUS did with the ROG Ally) JB Hi-Fi.
Otherwise the form factor, input layout, screen size (if not resolution)... it's practically perfect for me nowadays when away from my powerful gaming rig.
The new APU coming out from AMD is the HX 370... 12-Cores and a 16CU Radeon 890M. It's going to be expensive, but that's the next paradigm shift in handheld performance.
I wouldn't hold my breath on Valve doing anything like that for us, unfortunately.
On the note of m.2 sizes, it's probably a matter of priority when it comes to the internals. A bigger m.2 slot probably ranks lower in priority than battery, cooling, SOC memory, screen, controllers, overall size, etc.
I just picked up a Legion Go, kinda glad I did as I looked at these first.
As someone looking for a handheld right now for my s/o I greatly appreciate this review. I don’t even consider crowdfunding devices an option as it makes me concerned for support later down the road.
The OneXFly, IMO, is the most balanced handheld on the market today: amzn.to/4br1jQh
get the 64gb LCD steam deck while its on sale and add a 1tb SD card and you wont be disappointed
@@CraftComputing Thanks for the suggestion! I am going to be looking into it!
I really want handhelds to do well after I bought my son a Switch OLED for Christmas when they released, I play it more than my son and have been looking into better performing units that I can play my library through but at the right price-point ($300-500). So far Valve is the main contender for that price-point, and love seeing the innovation and chances that competitors are taking. I too avoid crowdfunding due to my experience in the custom keyboard space. In the end we all want a good performing unit with amazing battery life that is comfortable to play on the go, 720p/1080p is more than enough at a 7" to 9" screen size as anything higher is wasted pixels at that density.
Valve took YEARS to refine, refine, refine the Steamdeck before we even knew it existed and it's STILL the most popular device in the space because they have had ONE revision of that device based on genuine critiques of the device and necessary upgrades. Remember back in the early 2000's when we had gameboys, DS's and PSP's? There were very few options on the market but what was there was solid, thought-out, and you knew what to expect when a new one came out.
I miss that, and yeah sure we've got choice in our shopping these days but I HATE how fast some of these companies turn around and shovel out a new console every other week when it takes two years to get your crowdfunded handheld - IF you get it all.
I want them to stop pushing higher res and bigger screens, it's a handheld, I'm biased because i love the PSP but the resolution of the SteamDeck (1280×800), for example, is fine!
Buyer's Guide would be best. I've avoided the handheld market because of the insane number of options, and all I want is a premium software experience. I'm reminded of the 3D printer space before Bambu Lab demolished the competition. How did they win? UX/Software
What i want out of handhelds is a uniform experience that isnt spotty. I prefer they slowdown on hardware release, but i get their a hardware company. That might not be an option. So i just want the software to be less fragmented and more reliable. I shouldn't need 4 different package to play games. Contribute to handheld companion and make that the core of your product. Not a varation of it. No the actual software and help them grow.
But can you install Bazzite on it?
I feel like these Chinese companies are just throwing shit at the wall at this point to see what sticks. Intstead, they should really be trying to refine what they already have.
The whole point of crowdfunding is supposed to get a benefit, and there's nothing really extra, everything is still extravagantly priced. For example the a Ayaneo Kun. $1200+ when the legion go was 750
I think Jeff was so frustrated in this that he got drunk half way 😂
Hahaha I'm at half the video lenght and you are right, you can definitely hear it 😂😂
Man the more I watch videos about other handhelds the more glad I am that I invested in the Deck. A handheld from a reputable company that is headquarted in a place where some consequences matter and having a good product is one of the requirements for success.
I agree with you mate, I'm dead tired of all the different handhelds coming out that don't differ much from each other aside from the completely newly introduced issues that seem to compound with each iteration, no matter the improvements. It's really exhausting from the consumer point of view and seems reckless and short sighted from the 'successful business' point of view. It's pretty scary to me overall because these companies are certainly stretching themselves past their own capabilities and the failure of this amazing form factor would simply lead to a lower quality life for me and those who value what I value.
It's the same as watching every single laptop than gets released and constantly trying to keep track of that. People in the handheld space are simply insane. These are COMPUTERS, stop thinking of them like toys.
From a handheld consumer (currently using the Lenovo legion go) I want to say thank you, thank you so much for what I'd like to think what all of us handheld consumers have been feeling. The big channels u mentioned, I literally don't watch any of them other than something to see what a product looks like. But honestly it's reviews like this thay will help improve the handheld industry! So again thank you. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
I want to see a review that shows what the new ones can do, especially functionality, be it hardware or software. I have wanted a good portable machine that functions as well as a desktop, I know that is still a bit of a way off, but I think we are getting there faster and faster. Your reviews, and others like you, show me how close we are getting. I am still happy with my SteamDeck purchase but I wish it had more power, like it missed the chip lottery by maybe 2 generations. Thing is though, it got almost everything else right for its size and cost. Hopefully someone else will soon as well.
I want to know 2 things:
1. Why do the controllers on this device slide DOWN the sides? I’d imagine that having them slide UP would secure them more safely since the weight of the device is stopped by the slide’s ends.
2. Since I don’t have any knowledge of the other devices with removable controllers, I also wonder if all of them have controllers that slide down?
While I normally think that companies releasing a lot of products is a good thing, because it means more choice, I can't help thinking that these manufacturers need to do is slow down on the amount of models they release, and devote their resources to improving one model. You may not be able to resolve the physical problems, but you can improve the software, and the physical problems may be solved in a future product revision.
At the moment, it's actually quite confusing finding one to buy because there seems to be hundreds of handheld gaming PCs from several manufacturers.
I'm an experienced PC gamer, and while I am not in the market for a handheld at the moment (I am happy with my OG Steam Deck), I still get confused with the shear number of handhelds available. It must be a nightmare for a newbie, or even a parent buying a handheld for their kids.
That's exactly my point. The OneXPlayer 2, the removable controllers were not ready, as the fit and finish weren't there. The X1 Mini controllers have a MUCH better connection to the main body, but the controllers themselves are junk (buttons and DPAD are up there with the worst I've ever used). Things like this should have been caught before going into production, not just thrown into the wild, and maybe in the 4th revision we'll iron it all out.
Agreed. Look at how the big PC makers that have gone into the handheld market do it. Asus made one Ally for better or worse, and has just been updating it over time. They have a successor with buffed specs coming in the Ally X with more RAM and a bigger battery, but that makes model number 2. Valve has 2 Steam Decks, the regular one and the OLED, with the only differences within those being storage.
The issue is they're not actually releasing anything. They're just throwing a bunch of prototypes out there just to see which ones will sell well, otherwise they just do that small run of pre-orders and discontinue it. Quite a shady way of making a profit off a product you never intended to manufacture in the first place.
What software? It's a windows pc. There is no software. No software is even necessary
@BrunodeSouzaLino GPD doesn't do that. They have established product lines. The GPD win is on its 5th version, the wini mini is on its 3rd, the win max has been around for half a decade, etc. They have thoroughly established product lines.
it's very weird because only the mini one is on crowdfunding the large one is on sale on their website directly
I like the idea of Crowdfunding. Pebble got it right. Znaps dropped the ball. I get why So many companies do it. They can spec out to see what people want but that was before the Steamdeck. If they have something in this hardware style that has something UNIQUE, perhaps crazy and not something with wide appeal, that's a crowdfundable one to me. But only for something that's 50/50 if it would sell enough even break even. Not for another *insert handheld type*. I know it gives them buffer for if the device flops. They need to stop hiding behind that and grow up as you said. 101% agreed.
RIP my Pebble Steel... still mad at Fitbit about that whole thing.
But, Companies like Pebble (Or Ayaneo in 2021... or OneXPlayer in 2020) are working to both establish their retail presence, and also collect funding needed for manufacturing their products. This can be to finalize tooling, complete prototyping, etc. And that's perfectly fine.
But in 2024, Ayaneo and OneXPlayer are MORE than established enough. They are delivering devices to reviewers that are functionally complete. Their manufacturing ability is already where it needs to be. They already have an established multi-national retail presence. They no longer need crowdfunding.
For handhelds I would like to see ergonomics, and software operation. As the CPU is the same one for all the models, so what separates device A from device B is what would be a deciding factor on "to buy, or not to buy".
So well said, my last experience with a crowd funded project (1 I think you reviewed as well - not a gaming handheld) was horrible and I cancelled the order after 8 months of waiting, at least 5 months overdue with NO updates until I made a query and it was slow at best, except when I asked to cancel.
For me, I'm looking to see if a device fundamentally delivers on all it's promises and then how it compares to the Steam Deck. I 100% agree on the point that these companies should stop abandoning their devices to make totally new things so frequently. Look to how Nintendo and Valve treat their hardware platforms. Just do the one thing, as good as it can be, as supported as it can be, and then upgraded options over time within the same platform. I refuse to consider buying any of these devices from any of these brands specifically because of the constant new devices coming out.
This looks IDENTICAL to my Lenovo Lefion GO. The screen is the exact same 2560x1600 16x10 144hz IPS, bezels and webcam are the same, same detachable controller sliding sockets, the kickstand, everything about the body looks the same. Internally, it looks like a slight upgrade from the Z1 extreme (7840u) to 8840u, 16GB to 32GB, and a 49wh battery to 65wh.
Jeff, kudos to you and your stance on these handheld products. We need more of this.
Yeah, I really think the software is the most important aspect of these things. It's why the Steam Deck is seeing so much success, Valve invested so much time and care into making Steam OS better for THAT specific hardware configuration. It's why the Switch is also hugely successful. Tweaking setting, overclock, etc etc is nice but the majority of people are going to get tired of that (or they won't even do that at all) and just want an experience that's simple and easy. Pushing out all these different variations on these things just means your software devs aren't going to be as able to make that software experience shine as easily.
The same reasons you stated are why I no longer will support crowdfunding. I have received a bunch of things from both new and well-established companies that I had purchased through crowdfunding. However, I have also had both new and well-established companies fail to deliver anything on crowdfunding campaigns, ghost the supporters, and in some cases put up new crowdfunding campaigns for something similar. The worst case was a well-established company "discontinuing" its existing product in a particular line, launch the "new" version of it on crowdfunding, and then stop communicating after a "successful" campaign. This cannot be tolerated any longer.
10 years ago I joined one for cycling power crank attachment. That's $200 I'll never see again in my life
the excitement around this industry is great. But everyone needs to take a beat. If you NEED to do refreshes and release new products, please just refine your current form factors. GPD win mini is great! work on the cooling! Ayaneo 2S is great! make the micro LED version you claimed was coming. OneX..all you should be doing is releasing a Oled fly. It's literally the best of these devices. Nurture it! Stop crowdfunding prototypes. Let's all wait for the next chips and value the customer for a second.
The sound issue is likely the same issue that the onexfly and every other device that uses the Harman amp has when running linux.
The amp has its own driver and without it there is no sound.
I'm a huge handheld gaming fan and I have 1 complaint about all others.
Don't reinvent the D-pad, there are already fantastic ones. I literally don't care if 50 handhelds use the same D-pad if they all use a proven good one.
First and last crowdfunding project I backed was for the GPD WIN 3, the right trigger is broken and none of the controls work anymore. One and done
Can't wait for the SteamDeck2 to upset the whole scene...
This is the standard Chinese flood the market routine.
Basically what I'm hearing is: You want a handheld job with not too thick of a slab for comfort when it's time to hold for yourself. Don't dilute juice. Make it worth the squeeze.
Jeff is the only tech UA-camer keeping it 100% real in these streets.
Besides the obvious shitty sponsor, yeha
With how frequently new devices are being pumped out, my biggest interest points for handhelds are the hardware having longevity, and the software being as open as possible for people to work on it and tinker themselves. Ideally handhelds should just be running Linux and be designed in a way to run it well so that there's not as much concern WHEN the company stops pushing updates. Much as it would have downsides for online gaming and certain games with DRM/anticheat that hates Linux, that would at least grant the ability for a dedicated consumer base to be their own support team if/when needed.
I want to see Framework make a handheld now that I've thought it through, their design philosophy in the handheld space would be fantastic.
These companies use the crowdfunding to determine interest and scale their production.
If nobody does the crowdfunding the entire product will be canceled.
the one good thing about these companies using crowdfunding sites for "preorders" is that you can see how many people have been suckered into buying a prototype marketed as a finished product
I really want this handheld, its exactly what i want. Oculink port and the controller etc.. but i want from a good brand..
Hopefully, this device will be released in a good state i feel like 3in1 devices are the future having one device that does everything.
Sending a reviewer a nonworking system multiply labeled as a prototype is very perplexing to me
Halfway through the video as of this comment, for reference...
It IS refreshing to hear the troubles and issues with these handhelds, I have to admit, as they are often kinda brushed off by too many reviewers these days. Definitely makes me wary about looking at anything other than the Steam Deck too. :P
Exactly!
Why not a 7940hs by the way? It can handle 55 watts
I’ve just stopped bothering with anything kickstarter. Finish your product and market it like we had to when I made things. They’re just annoying. If the product is good enough, it’ll sell and pay back development costs. If it sucks you won’t be able to finance the development.
Please continue to be as transparent as can be, :) Thanks for the upload
Definitely glad to see some calling out. And especially how thin spread a lot of companies are getting even with their niche offerings, having a few form factors is great, but they also seem to try and change a lot without actually changing much except the housing it lives in every time I so much as get curious, there's like 3 more devices being discussed. The Steam Deck made waves and is able to get proper support by being 1 set of hardware and some basic revisions, which is great, but also means if that device doesn't work for you for any reason, you have to move on (granted I think the deck manages to almost poerfectly snug itself into the average users needs)
My personal stance on the Crowdfunding comes down to, if it's something the company should already have a grasp on, it should be a preorder, but if it is something like a more exploratory project, say handheld PCs even just a few years ago, that makes sense to me to be put behind crowdfunding. Where exactly I personally draw that line is case by case, but I can count the number of hardware projects I've backed crowd funding wise, and all of them were trying something at least somewhat new. But at this point, you have a reasonable understanding of most of the targets your aiming for, but if there was something that a company could be less sure of, lets say trying to make a super pocketable x86 handheld and you're not sure if the community will buy into it because of battery life concerns or some such, that makes some sense to me to put in crowdfunding, but 3rd model of basically the same things but with some cosmetic differences;, that just needs to be on a store like normal.
i have mad respect for valve for waiting for so long before even considering a deck 2. this is excatly the reason consoles work and are succesfull
Elephant in the room is the consumer. Crowfunding is a great way to forecast demand, market products, and mitigate some risk. Companies know even if they release garbage that influencers reviews will be suspiciousy absent (as Jeff mentioned) or wrapped in such a compliment sandwich that it feels akin to a mother reviewing her felon son.
Only the consumer can stop this smash-n-grab gravy train.
Interesting link between the sponsorship of the video by "cloud gaming" and the denigration of handheld PCs.
I ordered the ayn loki mini pro ,,,,,that was a experience ,,,,,by the time I received it which was probably 6 months later than promised,,,it wasn't what I ordered not even the color I ordered,,, didn't have the chip I ordered at first,,,they called it a preorder,,,but it was crowd funding I can imagine,,,,,one thing i can say is,,,,the build quality was excellent,,,,my original loki was supposed to have a Intel chip,,,they totally canceled that model,,,,wound up with a amd chip mini pro
I "crowd funded" the 6800u GPD Win4. I love that thing but, what support do I have?
All the new GPD win software released is for the newer models, the original software is still the 1.0 versions on the website.
I have some odd issues when trying to power it on while it's charging, it powers on but doesn't boot.
Hoping for a bios update, but there has been nothing. Everything is for the newer models.
These aren't cheap one off android phones.
I'll be looking at upgrading once strix point is released, but if support is going to be abysmal, then I may just forget about the segment all together and treat this as an "expensive lesson learnt" 😢
Have you used their discord channel yet? Lots of solutions are in there with helpful feedback. I usually get access to newer software as shown by the community.
The only reason I hesitate to buy all of these products is specifically because they are crowdfunding. There is no guarantee you will get the product with crowdfunding from what I understand and that's why I don't buy them.
Theres all these crowd funded junk handhelds that are basically clones of each other with a minor variation.
The market is currently flooded with these devices and they all have the same basic specs. They become obsolete in a matter of weeks and peoples addiction is making them easy targets to buy the next greatest device.
This means your $700 device is going to be worth about $100 in a matter of months.
Just look what Asus did to the Ally. Nobody wants to buy even a new one anymore. People cant give them away second hand.
Only devices that hold their value are GPDs. The Original GPD Win 1 and 2 (both predate the SD) go for as much as the Steam Deck.
Im seeing hundreds of people on social media with Multiple devices all released in the past year. Not just 2. I mean a lot of these guys will have 10 devices. "I used my SD for Steam games, I use my Rog Ally for Windows games, I use my Aya Neo for Emulation, My OneX Player when im taking a dump" is the BS excuses they use when its obvious gaming and electronics are an addiction.
Why does this bother you? Nobody needs any of these devices, but there are valid reasons to have multiple devices. Some people use them for reviewing purposes. Others use them because the form factor fits the style of play better. For example, my Ayaneo Kun is great for higher end PC games. My Odin 2 is better suited for emulation. Maybe a clamshell device for DS and 3DS emulation. I could totally understand having another device that fits in my pocket for quick traveling scenarios. And yes, some people just like to collect things. Once again, why is that a "BS" excuse?
Can't wait for a 32 inch 4k monitor with handles that's called a "hand held"
if they fix all the issues when you receive the production unit I will definitely be buying.
Aside from the general problems attached with buying a product whos whole support system is overseas, the primary reason I never bought any Ayaneo, Onexplayer, or GPDwin devices over the years has been, the excessive costs, and the constant new releases, and in cases like Ayaneo, new releases before shipping the one people already ordered. I don't really care if they want to crowdfund their innitial orders, It's stupid, but at this point these brands have proved they can and will ship, so there's no real anxiety there, it's more that it's unnecessary now, their names are big enough, their company is big enough. If each of them poured their time into making ONE handheld each, and sure, several skus with different ssd and ram if they want fine whatever, but ONE form factor, and really go all in on it from a support aspect, abd kept at it for the whole year, and only made a new model when it made sense to, they would have much more loyal buyers, and more enthusiastic reviewers. Arguably the most important, they would be able to produce at scale and the price could come down to compete with contemporaries like the ROG Ally or Legion Go.
Ayaneo kun was great. Runs a little hot but is 80% or more of what i want in a perfect handheld. Plus the heat isnt near where you hold the device. I just dont think the tech is there for a perfect machine yet. But its coming along.
I think it'd be interesting to showcase bazzite/chimeraOS on ROG ally or legion go, for users that need windows, but also would like a steam deck like experience, its advantages, limitations, etc.
I'd wish companies would try eyeing a bit on linux gaming tho..
I’ve never understood the point of crowdfunding with these companies they constantly push out new devices or be the first to market with new chipsets it becomes redundant to buy a product that’s going to be unsupported in the future. I think it would be better to actually use that money on research for better battery to performance, ergonomics, better software integration, driver support the list goes on. These companies have enough money to compete with big brand tech companies like Asus, Msi, Value, Zotac and Lenovo so I would like to see some of these devices hit retail shelves instead of these crowdfunding website nonsense
It might be that the Execs of these big companies are not sure about this market (handheld gaming computers) and as such don't want to invest too much money without knowing that the units will sell. They know that the Steam Deck sells well enough, but the market is getting crowded with new manufacturers ever week, it seems. The Steam Deck is however priced at a good spot for what you get, meanwhile all these more powerful units are about 70% more expensive. They are in fact so expensive, you might a well buy a gaming laptop instead, and get a unit you can use for other things as well.
I own a steam deck (non-oled, original edition). I know i can repair it if i need to, it's engineered for this. I have all the faith that the company making it will support it for a long time (this isn't hard, cause it's Valve, obviously, who have earned this trust over decades). The thing is engineered to run Linux, but they provide full windows driver support anyway, from launch.
I wouldn't even consider any of these handhelds in front of you, cause none of that is true for them. They are essentially a gimmick-version of the steam deck, losing all the reliability, repairability and universality.
I very much agree on confusion around crowdfunding for these companies.
I have a launch-day Steam Deck and I'd honestly be happy jus sticking with it for my primary handheld, but there is a single itch it has never scratched for me: Pocketability.
I got the original GPD Win and then the Win 2, and I stuck with the Win 2 until the Win Mini came out, because pocketable clamshell machines are the pinnacle of portability. I'm often out-and-about with my family and when we have a surprise few minutes of waiting for something, I can pull it out of my pocket and play something.
With that excitement, the only reason I backed the Win 2 on IGG back in 2018 was because my impression of GPD was they were small and needed the support, and I wanted a successor to the initial Win to thrive... but then they've just kept going with it, year after year. I find it very confusing as to why they would go the crowdfunding route.
Despite my excitement, I waited for regular ordering to open for the Win Mini in 2023, because I refuse to crowdfund any longer. I'm a customer, not an investor.
I got burned on the first couple of Crowd Funding items. Thankfully, I was able to get my money back on the expensive item. Lesson learned.
10:00 you can't install another language pack because it's not a valid windows license in the first place. That's been a thing since XP.
The world needs more reviewers with your integrity.
I dont have all the hardware controls yet... but i do have some similar software to one x console and it does plenty of stuff one x console doesn't. If you are interested, i'd be happy to share! Development is more transparent then these companies software...
I would so love a little brick like this with decent cooling as a DAW for jamming and gigging. My studio PC isnt exactly portable XD
The ability to add some midi knobs and sliders rather than joycons would be epic
I don't have any interest in handheld gaming PCs, but I DO have a lot of interest in the kind of micro-laptops GPD and One-Netbook make -- I feel like we've been waiting forever for an update to the GPD Pocket 3 and GPD MicroPC!
I've had dreams of doing something like this, making a device that I could sell to people, but my problem was always "how can I fund this and get it to manufacturer level? I dont have the resources to do this." and I NEVER wanted to do crowdfunding because I NEVER wanted to make a mistake that could disappoint anyone to the point of making my business die. I'm glad to see a bunch of people outwardly not supporting crowdfunding. its not the best thing ever.
Look, Crowdfunding makes a lot of sense for some companies. It definitely makes sense for your first bulk orders, or for seeking advanced manufacturing like injection molding.
But companies that have the capital to cover their development costs should not be hiding behind it.
@CraftComputing
Jeff, you did good here and you're doing right by the community! Please carry on.
I think the tablet form factor could work if they didn't try to force it to work as a "handheld". If they keep it as a tablet/convertable laptop, I think it could be a compelling buy for someone who wants a powerful but compact laptop.
the only thing im glad for is my GPD win 4 has been a painless process, the only thing i kinda wish was more native support on egpus for these devices. most have a wierd setup process and the dreaded error 43 for nvidia cards is still a problem to this day (and the solution was scripted back in the 10 series)