Heyo! Thanks a lot for checking out my game. It's a bunch of interesting criticism in there. I appreciate you taking the time to discuss the game in such an extensive manner
You're very welcome! Thanks for watching and, more importantly, for making a game worth talking about! I can't wait to see what you come up with in the future. Cheers mate! :D
You made this? I haven't played it but it looks astounding, just the right kind of strange. Very good looking game. Also, idk why the dancing "Dead" text is so disturbing to me, but I've decided I want that played at my funeral. We look forward to other things from you!!
I kinda wish it was more deeper and fucking sadder. It a fine game yet why not go deeper about faith, religious abuse, revenge to the point of violence, loss of innocence in a trapped about a world of pain.
Your point on replayability is something that is both true and untrue. A video by Yahtzee on his views on replayability is interesting and kinda true. Developers adds so many things that makes the better on a second on third play through that can sometimes make the first one not great. Looking at you re3make. But here's the thing about replayability. When I replay most games, I don't touch the extra content to see more things. I usually replay the game to replay the game. I have replayed yakuza 1 multiple times cause I just like it. And that's usually the case with most games I replay. Then again, I do replay neon white to get the platinum medals
There's nothing more subjective than replayability because yeah, if I like it enough I'm going to replay it again; hell I just replayed Mega Man 2 for the millionth time last night in fact. My point was framed only around games like Children of the Sun that try force replayability through things like leaderboards rather than shoring up the core of the game first. Had the game been deeper and more artistically sound I think it would be a lot more appealing to replay for a lot more people. Neon White is an excellent example of what I'm talking about; the game's deep both mechanically and artistically; it doesn't rely on it's leaderboard to try and coax people into getting better and replaying its levels; more people are going to want to do that naturally by virtue of how tight the rest of the game is. I like games that give me more on a second, third, or twentieth playthrough, something like the Souls series for instance, but a puzzle game like Portal doesn't really give you more on subsequent playthroughs yet it's deep enough that it's still enjoyable even though I have all the solutions memorized and have for a long time now.
@@ThusSpokeNoaLee fair take. I mean you're right that this game could definitely do with at least medals to add more replayability. Though neon white does add replayability with leaderboards. Though that game does it differently. Cant remember which medal it is. But unlocking one medal unlocks the leader board but for your friends. And trying to beat your friend's high score does give you more incentive to beat than some random stranger. I would say that if I did have friends that own neon white :( Then there are games that are kinda worse by adding replayability. Both re3s are kinda worse. I don't like the random item and enemy placements every time you die. Another one is Nier. By God the remake and original needed a little more budget with route B, C and D. B is fine cause it does add a few more cutscenes to add context to everything. Though with the way it's portrayed, I expected you to play as Kaine and not Nier. Cause gameplay wise it's exactly the same as before. While getting C and D is terrible cause it is exactly the same as B. Last two paragraphs are very off topic. I just like talking about this. Cause it's fascinating. A difference between good and bad replay value
I have been looking for a game reviewer who actually talks in depth about games as art. I CANNOT wait for you to blow up. This is an immediate subscription. Big ups !
given the comment about nobody caring about leaderboards I'd be curious what your thoughts are on the success of Devil Daggers... or to a much lesser extent Neon White.
My point with the leaderboard thing was that they're like an extra, a bonus; very few people actually play to the leaderboards and those that do would be refining their skills even without them. That's all I was getting at. The games you mentioned would be a success even without leaderboards because they're good games, at least Neon White is, haven't played Devil Daggers so I can't say personally but it looks pretty rad. Leaderboards are an extra for them whereas with Children of the Sun it seems to be a primary goal. I guess I see leaderboards as little more than a way to measure your current skill against the world, not as a goal in itself. A game should have a lot of meat on the bones before a leaderboard is even considered IMO. Neon White has that, Children of the Sun, not so much.
Not sure I agree with you there, I can think of a bunch of games where the primary point is leaderboard ranking, such as Track Mania. It's a different genre, for sure, and personally I play for puzzles or story primarily, but there are 100% lots of people who want to cap out their rankings and play games primarily for that.
@@Grysham I see what you're getting at but I guess that's still sort of in line with my overall perspective on this. I doubt the people that play for rankings in Track Mania got into the game in the first place just because it has a leaderboard. Maybe some weirdo hyper-competitive type people did, but I'd wager most people got into the game because of it's tight controls, unique tracks, and overall game feel long before they ever even considered playing to the leaderboards. And that's kind of my point: leaderboards are an extra for those that already have a desire to dig deep with the game. At a high enough level, sure, that can become your primary goal, that's essentially what high level speedrunners are all about after all, but that holds true for games without leaderboards as well. For the vast majority of players a leaderboard or speedrunning times are inconsequential, and I think failing to recognize that when designing a game is a pitfall that a lot of developers trip into. I think at a high enough level of play we're fundamentally talking about a different concept than game design and talking more about competition and performance.That's not to say that those aren't important or interesting, just that this is sort of a different realm of discussion from the "games as art" perspective that I'm arguing from.
Nice review! Not gonna rant too much but I appreciated the video. Sagebrush from 2018 had similar topics and definitely came to mind. I've never played it though. :3 Maybe they're quite opposite XD
i respectfully disagree. i think its a bit silly to say that a game with no dialog is more blunt about its theming than superhot, a game where the player is textually directed to feel specific ways. also, the plot ties directly into the central gameplay question - a bullet being rediected after its fired can be seen as a metaphor for escaping the indoctrination of the cult. The Girl had no hope of living a normal life, of metaphorically stopping the bullet, so all she could do was redicted it back towards the cult itself once she realized the truth. i respect the game for featuring a dark subject matter while having the restraint to leave it to a more subtle backdrop, ive become pretty sick of games that feel the need to flaunt their darkness as an inherent selling point and forgetting to actually make them impactful. its not a matter of not having guts, its trusting the player to interpret what theyre presented with in a less literal way. i dont think the girl literally masturbating on screen would do anything but subtrack from the serious tone the game is going for, this isnt some trashy slasher flick and i find the "partying fratboy" aspect of the cultists to contribute to their humanization, not detract from it. they dont just wake up and go to sleep as members of an enemy faction, they chat amongst themselves and hold trashy bonfire parties. killing 8 people at once in a truck explosion while theyre innocuously doing some drunken kareoke did more to make me hesitate than seeing them march around a post and dwell on battle plans i agree on your criticism of the contradiction between the girl's psychosis and the objective reality of the cutscenes from within your reading, but i had a different interpretation. taking for granted that psychic powers are just an objective part of reality, we know they can take different forms - they shield-redirection is different from the girl's ricochet, and its even implied that the cult leader employs a more literal form of mind control. then, it could be seen as her subconsciously changing the signs with her abilities - this way, it thematically fits the revenge narrative of forcing your own judgement of reality and in reducing your targets into nonhuman tools of evil. shes deliberately trying to enforce her view that, despite the reality we see in their humanity, she sees nothing but targets. this is what makes the ending so impactful: the irony of being rewarded with inheriting control of a people she only perceives and nonhuman monsters in her own mind, only grappling with the consequences of her worldview too late. but this is just my analysis of whats going on, i still think your reading of whats presented is a valid interpretation i think this is a great video, youre well spoken and you argue your points well, but i think youre being a bit too dismissive of a game that i find has really deliberate and thematically cogent ludonarrative design. just because you dont find it worthwhile to engage with the game on a deeper level doesnt mean theres nothing to be found. also, you can critique the intentions and performance of an artist, but i feel like it crosses a line into insulting when you say that they're like a child with no balls
nah high scores are rad the issue is so few games do a decent job at making you care about them cause all you need is a ranking system thats why everyone loves neon white but nobody remembers what came before like lovely planet and seum which are both great games they just dont push you much into replaying a level over and over to get faster maybe children of the sun coulda used a ranking system
💗What do you think of Children of the Sun? Fun? Unique? Artistically hollow? Yes. Subscribe I guess.
Heyo! Thanks a lot for checking out my game. It's a bunch of interesting criticism in there. I appreciate you taking the time to discuss the game in such an extensive manner
You're very welcome! Thanks for watching and, more importantly, for making a game worth talking about! I can't wait to see what you come up with in the future. Cheers mate! :D
You made this? I haven't played it but it looks astounding, just the right kind of strange. Very good looking game. Also, idk why the dancing "Dead" text is so disturbing to me, but I've decided I want that played at my funeral. We look forward to other things from you!!
Pleaseeeee do a sequel. This review makes me realized the hole potential of this!
I kinda wish it was more deeper and fucking sadder. It a fine game yet why not go deeper about faith, religious abuse, revenge to the point of violence, loss of innocence in a trapped about a world of pain.
Show that all through the mechanics and environment of the game itself and we'd have one hell of an impactful experience.
Your point on replayability is something that is both true and untrue. A video by Yahtzee on his views on replayability is interesting and kinda true.
Developers adds so many things that makes the better on a second on third play through that can sometimes make the first one not great. Looking at you re3make.
But here's the thing about replayability. When I replay most games, I don't touch the extra content to see more things. I usually replay the game to replay the game. I have replayed yakuza 1 multiple times cause I just like it. And that's usually the case with most games I replay.
Then again, I do replay neon white to get the platinum medals
There's nothing more subjective than replayability because yeah, if I like it enough I'm going to replay it again; hell I just replayed Mega Man 2 for the millionth time last night in fact. My point was framed only around games like Children of the Sun that try force replayability through things like leaderboards rather than shoring up the core of the game first. Had the game been deeper and more artistically sound I think it would be a lot more appealing to replay for a lot more people.
Neon White is an excellent example of what I'm talking about; the game's deep both mechanically and artistically; it doesn't rely on it's leaderboard to try and coax people into getting better and replaying its levels; more people are going to want to do that naturally by virtue of how tight the rest of the game is.
I like games that give me more on a second, third, or twentieth playthrough, something like the Souls series for instance, but a puzzle game like Portal doesn't really give you more on subsequent playthroughs yet it's deep enough that it's still enjoyable even though I have all the solutions memorized and have for a long time now.
@@ThusSpokeNoaLee fair take. I mean you're right that this game could definitely do with at least medals to add more replayability.
Though neon white does add replayability with leaderboards. Though that game does it differently. Cant remember which medal it is. But unlocking one medal unlocks the leader board but for your friends. And trying to beat your friend's high score does give you more incentive to beat than some random stranger. I would say that if I did have friends that own neon white :(
Then there are games that are kinda worse by adding replayability. Both re3s are kinda worse. I don't like the random item and enemy placements every time you die.
Another one is Nier. By God the remake and original needed a little more budget with route B, C and D. B is fine cause it does add a few more cutscenes to add context to everything. Though with the way it's portrayed, I expected you to play as Kaine and not Nier. Cause gameplay wise it's exactly the same as before. While getting C and D is terrible cause it is exactly the same as B.
Last two paragraphs are very off topic. I just like talking about this. Cause it's fascinating. A difference between good and bad replay value
I have been looking for a game reviewer who actually talks in depth about games as art. I CANNOT wait for you to blow up. This is an immediate subscription. Big ups !
Thanks! Glad to hear I fit the bill and welcome aboard mate! :D
given the comment about nobody caring about leaderboards I'd be curious what your thoughts are on the success of Devil Daggers... or to a much lesser extent Neon White.
My point with the leaderboard thing was that they're like an extra, a bonus; very few people actually play to the leaderboards and those that do would be refining their skills even without them. That's all I was getting at. The games you mentioned would be a success even without leaderboards because they're good games, at least Neon White is, haven't played Devil Daggers so I can't say personally but it looks pretty rad.
Leaderboards are an extra for them whereas with Children of the Sun it seems to be a primary goal. I guess I see leaderboards as little more than a way to measure your current skill against the world, not as a goal in itself. A game should have a lot of meat on the bones before a leaderboard is even considered IMO. Neon White has that, Children of the Sun, not so much.
Not sure I agree with you there, I can think of a bunch of games where the primary point is leaderboard ranking, such as Track Mania. It's a different genre, for sure, and personally I play for puzzles or story primarily, but there are 100% lots of people who want to cap out their rankings and play games primarily for that.
@@Grysham I see what you're getting at but I guess that's still sort of in line with my overall perspective on this. I doubt the people that play for rankings in Track Mania got into the game in the first place just because it has a leaderboard. Maybe some weirdo hyper-competitive type people did, but I'd wager most people got into the game because of it's tight controls, unique tracks, and overall game feel long before they ever even considered playing to the leaderboards.
And that's kind of my point: leaderboards are an extra for those that already have a desire to dig deep with the game. At a high enough level, sure, that can become your primary goal, that's essentially what high level speedrunners are all about after all, but that holds true for games without leaderboards as well. For the vast majority of players a leaderboard or speedrunning times are inconsequential, and I think failing to recognize that when designing a game is a pitfall that a lot of developers trip into.
I think at a high enough level of play we're fundamentally talking about a different concept than game design and talking more about competition and performance.That's not to say that those aren't important or interesting, just that this is sort of a different realm of discussion from the "games as art" perspective that I'm arguing from.
just discovered the channel and love it, thanks for the content
Thanks for watching; glad you enjoy it! :D
I love it when a critic can help me understand how to critique. This was great
U kinda look like Matthias Schweighöfer haha Epic!
Well I am mostly German so I guess that tracks. lol
Great review man! Will be keepingan eye on the channel!
Nice review!
Not gonna rant too much but I appreciated the video.
Sagebrush from 2018 had similar topics and definitely came to mind. I've never played it though. :3 Maybe they're quite opposite XD
Thanks m8! Never heard of Sagebrush but it looks pretty neat; definitely gonna check that one out. Thanks for the recommendation! :D
really interesting video, here's a comment to appease the algorithm gods
i respectfully disagree. i think its a bit silly to say that a game with no dialog is more blunt about its theming than superhot, a game where the player is textually directed to feel specific ways. also, the plot ties directly into the central gameplay question - a bullet being rediected after its fired can be seen as a metaphor for escaping the indoctrination of the cult. The Girl had no hope of living a normal life, of metaphorically stopping the bullet, so all she could do was redicted it back towards the cult itself once she realized the truth.
i respect the game for featuring a dark subject matter while having the restraint to leave it to a more subtle backdrop, ive become pretty sick of games that feel the need to flaunt their darkness as an inherent selling point and forgetting to actually make them impactful. its not a matter of not having guts, its trusting the player to interpret what theyre presented with in a less literal way. i dont think the girl literally masturbating on screen would do anything but subtrack from the serious tone the game is going for, this isnt some trashy slasher flick
and i find the "partying fratboy" aspect of the cultists to contribute to their humanization, not detract from it. they dont just wake up and go to sleep as members of an enemy faction, they chat amongst themselves and hold trashy bonfire parties. killing 8 people at once in a truck explosion while theyre innocuously doing some drunken kareoke did more to make me hesitate than seeing them march around a post and dwell on battle plans
i agree on your criticism of the contradiction between the girl's psychosis and the objective reality of the cutscenes from within your reading, but i had a different interpretation. taking for granted that psychic powers are just an objective part of reality, we know they can take different forms - they shield-redirection is different from the girl's ricochet, and its even implied that the cult leader employs a more literal form of mind control. then, it could be seen as her subconsciously changing the signs with her abilities - this way, it thematically fits the revenge narrative of forcing your own judgement of reality and in reducing your targets into nonhuman tools of evil. shes deliberately trying to enforce her view that, despite the reality we see in their humanity, she sees nothing but targets. this is what makes the ending so impactful: the irony of being rewarded with inheriting control of a people she only perceives and nonhuman monsters in her own mind, only grappling with the consequences of her worldview too late. but this is just my analysis of whats going on, i still think your reading of whats presented is a valid interpretation
i think this is a great video, youre well spoken and you argue your points well, but i think youre being a bit too dismissive of a game that i find has really deliberate and thematically cogent ludonarrative design. just because you dont find it worthwhile to engage with the game on a deeper level doesnt mean theres nothing to be found. also, you can critique the intentions and performance of an artist, but i feel like it crosses a line into insulting when you say that they're like a child with no balls
Algorithm brought me, and I'm glad it did.
Same!
nah high scores are rad the issue is so few games do a decent job at making you care about them cause all you need is a ranking system thats why everyone loves neon white but nobody remembers what came before like lovely planet and seum which are both great games they just dont push you much into replaying a level over and over to get faster maybe children of the sun coulda used a ranking system
That's basically my point, yeah. lol
Has nothing to do with the video, but any tips for making NPC's for a campaign?
King in yellow
"I cannot forget Carcosa where black stars hang in the heavens; where the shadows of men's thoughts lengthen in the afternoon..."