I've been saying for years our only hope is a boxing breakaway, so it would take a tv network, maybe 1 or 2 promoters & a healthy roster a mix of younger and established fighters to change everything that is corrupt in boxing and if we had one title per division then nobody could duck anyone. If you're the champion you have a mandatory every 12 months or you get stripped no ifs and buts.
@MAGACOP Passed a certain skeletal structure, power, and size - most heavyweights can hurt most other heavyweights. Think about this objectively. There are no muscles on the chin, temples, or face region - regions full of nerves. Even the intercostals have narrow strips of muscles. Body fat is really the only insulant (to go over muscles). Andy Ruiz was 6'2" - and while he has fast hands and good defense from midrange - inside, he has slow feet and average defense from the outside. And yet, he hurt and stopped the 6'6" Joshua in their first fight and forced Joshua to change strategy for the second. *6'2"*. That's comparable to what Joe Louis (6'1-1/2") did versus the 6'6" Primo Carnera (former undisputed heavyweight champ). Louis's record was 19-0-0, with 15 KOs - and he weight 196Lbs. He stopped Carnera (who weighed 261Lbs) in 6 rounds 🤷🏾♂️. Obviously, individuals like GGG and Jermall Charlo simply don't have the skeletal structure, muscle mass, & power to safely compete up at cruiserweight, much less heavyweight. If you don't understand, then here's a comparison. GGG is 5'10" and probably walked around 172 in his prime (to get down to 160). Prime Mike Tyson was also 5'10". But *look* at their muscle mass and their skeletal structures - COMPLETELY different animals. With his muscle mass, it would have probably put a prime Mike in the hospital to even think of getting down to 180Lbs - and yet the most dangerous version of Mike was the fast & powerful version in the mid 1980's that averaged less than 225Lbs.
until theres a three hundred and ten pound phenom that has to fight someone at 210, and kills the guy. Historically all weight classes evolved as humans and weight training evolve.
220lbs 6ft2 vs. 270lbs 6f9 is kinda problematic nowdays. A real good small Heavyweight gonna be stuck as a journeyman cause hé cant compete with skilled Giants & dont Wanna kill himself to make Cruserweight limit.
just how many 6'9 fighters are there? enough to populate a division? Or is it going to be tyson fury knocks out bum of the month acromegaly sufferer? I dont think the average height of HW division fighters has increased as much as people think it has. We have more freaks at the elite level now, but the average height hasn't changed much just from what i can gather at a glance on google.
@Azzury Street Liston with 84” reach. and fists measured 15 inches add to that he was powerful puncher he would knock down most if the heavyweights nowadays.
That could be true. But at 6’2, that would be a smaller heavy weight. He is definitely used to fighting taller opponents. But, I think a well put together, well proportioned fighter around 6’3 and a half to 6’4 would knock them out. Someone like Foreman, Holmes, Ali, etc. The main problem with boxing isn’t the weight classes. It’s that nobody boxes anymore. In college, we started a boxing club. We had like 20 guys. We changed the name of the club the next year to a kickboxing club to see if we could get more people, so we wouldn’t get dropped for lack of membership. Some of us already trained in martial arts, mainly because there were no boxing clubs, so to save our club, we took a shot. 150 people signed up! Boxing = 20 people. Kickboxing =150. And, that was before MMA. That pretty much sums it up. Also, boxing isn’t taught anymore in high school. There are no scholarships in college, as in football, and basketball. So, a lot of bigger, and gifted athletes go into those sports, and why wouldn’t they? The only reason I learned to box was because my father boxed. When I told him that I wanted to box for a living, he said getting hit in the face everyday for little to no money, is a hard way to earn a living. And, for most boxers, it certainly is.
HENTAI LORD: your talking about a fighter from the 20’s who by all standards was considered a freak of nature. Seriously what that man did would be like Bud Crawford fighting in every division up to Cruiser. It’s unthinkable
@@Rockstar-bq5fm maybe but what about canelo moving up to light heavy weight or roy jones moving up the heavy weight. i will be honest if the division gets split up even more boxing will die even faster i know for a fact many of my friend do not watch boxing because its complicated they tell 3, 4 champions at one time and the difference in weight class is some times 10, 5 pounds
HENTAI LORD: Canelo fought a old washed champion with a Rehydration clause after he just had a war not 8 weeks before and Roy fought John Ruiz for the regular belt when Lennox was the proper champion.. that’s all that needs saying. Roy’s was quite impressive considering he started at 154(?) and fought all the way up to Heavyweight. But they don’t compare a stitch to what Langford did As for more weight classes who’s it gonna hurt really. Your friend says there’s to many weight-classes but does he even know what’s heavier a flyweight or a feather? Same with 90% of casuals out there. They just don’t care to educate themselves about the sport. To be fair though the number of belts is horribly diluting the sport more than the weight-classes. And I gotta say boxing is not dying I’m tired of hearing that shit, the sport is bringing in more money, is on more networks than ever before and has never been spread more worldwide Finally it’s not hard to tell the difference between a heavyweight and a Superheavy, it’s been that way in the Amateurs since the 80’s. Just my opinion though but how does it split the talent pool when the top 15 in most everyone’s rankings are over 230lbs? Who are the super small Heavyweights today that are beating the Giants? Honestly I think people are crying over nothing because there isn’t a 220lbs man besides Usyk or Hunter that can win a title and people don’t think they can even
Danny B I see your point. Still, athletes who are below 200 lbs can all tend to be extremely fast, agile, and athletic, making it so Canelo would have almost all the advantages over a guy like Loma. But once a guy gets over like 250 or 260 or so, they tend to be very slow and vulnerable to those around the 220 lb range who still have tremendous athleticism and power. From what we have seen so far, its like around 90% of the HW's over 260lbs are terribly ponderous and use too much fuel just to move around to have the stamina against an elite HW. Fury is obviously a huge exception to the laws of physics though lol.
Sam Langford fought Jack Johnson and lost but Johnson refused to fight him again. He was beating guys late in his career like Tiger Flowers (2nd round ko) when he was nearly blind. Harry Wills appeared to have his number, but Sam Langford may be the most underrated and unknown fighter of all time. He was a complete beast.
Old timer because they weight drain dramatically and can easily burn weight. There's a reason HWs fight to a much older age. You will just see smaller guys putting on unnecessary weight to be where the money is and getting blasted out even worse.
once a guy gets over like 260 or so, they tend to be very slow and vulnerable to those around the 220 lb range who still have tremendous athleticism and power. From what we have seen so far, its like around 90% of the HW's over 260lbs are terribly ponderous and use too much fuel just to move around to have the stamina against an elite HW. Fury is obviously a huge exception to the laws of physics though lol. But athletes below 200 lbs all tend to have tremendous speed, agility, and athleticism, giving a 160 lbs fighter all the advantages over a 130 lb fighter that just isnt the same when men get to be around 270 lbs for the most part.
@@october4th475 exactly and people forget Fury was dropped on his ass and said his hardest fight was Steve Cunningham where he was getting outboxed and had to really muscle his way through. Cunningham is a good fighter but he's not some ATG heavyweight. I think Fury is more comfortable fighting guys his size cause he can use his speed and movement, Wallin gave him problems cause he's not that big and had the right little man gameplan
@@JeffPenaify Yeah man, exactly. And the divisional size ranges come and go. The giants are in for now but they will give way to smaller more nimble athletes eventually and transform back to that 6' 215 lb range I think, and again some giants will come along with exceptional skill and attributes and turn it back to giants again
@@october4th475 exactly, otherwise Mariusz Pudzianowski, Brian Shaw and The Mountain would be the top heavyweights in the world n making way more money than they do throwing rocks n racing wheelbarrows n such stuff.
The Valuev point was checkmate as far as I’m concerned. The heavyweight division is what it is, and it’s too special and rich in history to mess with now. Leave it alone.
Dr. Mofongo if they added super hw the smaller guys would just pack on weight to go where the money is. Which would result in worse beatings for them. There's a reason Usyk, Gassiev, Haye, Holyfield, Bellew, Cunningham and most cruisers jump to HW. For the money
Valuev the biggest unskilled freak show boxing has ever produced is not a good example of the heavyweight division when the actual class of the Heavyweight division at that time were the Klitscho brothers who were the true Super Heavies. And Wlad played with David Haye who scraped by a useless Valuev
Rockstar 1996 The point that Teddy made with Valuev was strictly to show that having a size advantage doesn’t automatically equate to a win. In Valuev’s case, the size difference was extreme, which lends itself to the assumption that he held an “unfair” advantage over anyone he faced. As Atlas pointed out however, a smaller, faster, and yes, more skilled fighter may actually have the advantage. There are multiple facets to the game, so in essence the example of Valuev serves to illustrate Teddy’s point very well. You noted his lack of skill as well, so in a way you’re making the same point. No one is saying he was the class of the division, or a fighter that should be held in high esteem. But given the extreme size difference, someone might assume his opponents stood no chance against him, and we obviously know that was not the case.
Dr. Mofongo: He’s picking the worst example of a Super Heavyweight and making that his focal point. His argument is as thin as a piece of paper, 6’2 220lbs men weren’t beating Wlad and Vitali. It took a another Super Heavy to do it Haye couldn’t beat Them and he wouldn’t beat any of the champs today. He’s just to small for a skilled “big” man. And that goes for the majority of small Heavyweights now as well. Btw Go watch old Atlas interviews on the Klitscko brothers, he absolutely hates them it’s hysterical
Rockstar 1996 Wladimir was KO’d by Lamon Brewster (6’2-226), and Corrie Sanders (6’4-225). And when Fury beat him, as he himself pointed out, it was by boxing him, something no other opponent had done prior. Not saying a smaller man beating a bigger man is an everyday occurrence. Just saying that the heavyweight division not having a ceiling makes it unique in that it allows for that difference in skill set to shine and overcome a size “advantage” one might see on paper. This is what sets it apart from the other divisions, and my vote is to let it remain as is.
I would say the biggest factor is that nature tends to weed the giants out from being able to compete at elite level. Physics limits men over a certain size from being able to have the stamina, agility, and speed to complete with 225 lb elite fighters for the most part.
@@bombercountyblues Well there has been argument for a while about this, so it goes back before Fury. But Fury for sure is reigniting the discussion right now, absolutely. Right now the hardcore Wilder fan base is going insane trying to take credit away from Fury and erase the beating he gave Wilder. Rarely have I seen a fan base this sour. Its embarassing
is it ok to had wbc-wba-ibf-wbo- champions - years ago middleweights fought heavyweights there was no supermiddle 1979 lightheavy 1903 - or cruiserweight 1984 than if there are more boxers at superweight then make it
It doesn't make sense to have such tight restrictions for the lighter weight classes and no limit on the heavyweight division. Either cap it like the UFC or open up a super heavy division at 240lbs.
once a guy gets over like 250 or 260 or so, they tend to be very slow and vulnerable to those around the 220 lb range who still have tremendous athleticism and power. From what we have seen so far, its like around 90% of the HW's over 260lbs are terribly ponderous and use too much fuel just to move around to have the stamina against an elite HW. Fury is obviously a huge exception to the laws of physics though lol. But athletes below 200 lbs all tend to have tremendous speed, agility, and athleticism, giving a 160 lbs fighter all the advantages over a 130 lb fighter that just isnt the same when men get to be around 270 lbs for the most part.
The heavyweight division is the oldest and most glamorous division of them all. Especially because it is open upwards. Just disqualify those mutants who do not Box but lean on their opponents and everything is fine. Boxing does not allow clinching, grappling, wrestling or throws. If you are strict with the Marquess of Queensberry Rules, there is no need for another division.
Boxing has never been strict with Queensbury rules when it comes to clinching, look at Jack Johnson's fights 😂 clinching is a fundamental part of Boxing and its like jay walking as far as Queensbury rules go.
@@JeffPenaify Exactly, how to tie your opponent up, is the most important thing they teach you in boxing, cos the first time you catch a hot one it had better be your default instinct. Its hard to draw a line though when someone is using it for recovery/ survival or just taking liberties n stinking up the fight.
@@MrRingai I look at clinching the same way as I look at running, you re a pro fighter figure it out, fight out of it. Man you watch old school fighters they didn't stop working just cause they're in a clinch. That's the problem with today guys just passively get wrapped and dont make space or work inside, just wait on the ref
I remember seeing and reading interviews with well known trainers. The general consensus of opinion was that at somewhere around 220 pounds, power, speed, agility, and endurance were more efficiently maximized. And, at that weight, the power, with proper form and execution, was more than sufficient to bring down any man. Also, the height with the correct frame for a fighter, to best carry and deliver at that weight, would be around 6’2 to 6’4. They all suggested that there would be, and has been, exceptions with the mix of height and weight, but that wasn’t the norm. When you got too tall, you would lose agility. If you got to heavy your mobility and endurance would suffer. The if you were too much shorter, you would lose too much reach, and so on. It all seems to be so, except for some notable exceptions. Love listening to Teddy. He is a treasure to the sport of the Sweet Science.
@@jeffscuderi8662 Head movement and timing negate reach advantage though. And a 220 lb athlete tends to be MUCH faster and more agile as well as having MUCH more stamina than a 270 lb guy. Nature weeds out most giants being able to compete at elite level. Fury is an exception
@@october4th475 64 and up I count Lewis foreman bowe klitsschois Briggs carner a valu ev Sanders wilder fury Joshua etc you have to get inside past the jab and off the end of the punches.Can be done sometimes but not easy.
@@jeffscuderi8662 I am not trying to be disrespectful or rude, I'm just not sure what you were saying there. Could you please type a bit more accurately please? what do all those names have in common? Only one or two of them was over 260 lbs and all of them had flaws that made it possible for smaller HW's to exploit them. Those names are mostly not the giants people are claiming to be too big for HW.
interesting that he mentioned Valuev as the giant and Holyfield, the small, actually, they fought each other when Holy was already kind of old +40...Evander offically lost but actually won in my scorecard.... Great point Teddy !
@@bombercountyblues Yeah, that was an official decision， Haye won fair and square could have scored a KO...Concerning the other fight, I've just checked: Holyfield was 46 years old at that time !!! Not only in my scorecard he won but also for another judge it was a majority decision for the Giant, who was the champion. The bout in Germany, Valuev the product of German organisation/promotion, so those kinds of decisions, we all know, unfortunetly are commun, LV etc.
thanks teddy for checking max and can we please stop giving max kellerman credit as some kind of authority on boxing, i dont care how much u study or think u know, u r not an autjority if u havent done it and its a shame that he has his own show on espn, what a joke but than again espn has become a joke, they have so many people and women talking about shit they have never ever done
Heavyweight Division should remain undivided. Size isn't always a fighters biggest attribute for a that division. Many times in the HW division size may work against the bigger guy. Lets not try to lose sight of what the HW division represents. The top of the food chain. Where you can put a Lion in with an Elephant. A Grizzly wIth a crocodile. It's the ultimate weight class to display your greatness and ability to figure out ways to compete.
@@aaronam0115 Not always true. For the most part if you are a Heavy Weight regardless of a huge weight mismatch there is still a good opportunity to win the fight, for instance most heavyweights even the average HW can turn the tide with one dynamic punch at any time but at the elite level some HW's have the equalizer but lack fundamentals like Wilder while some HW's have the speed and technique like Usyk but lack the size and other HW's have the fundamentals and size but lack a dependable chin like Joshua while other HW's do have the size and IQ but lack the devastating power like Tyson Fury. There's always a give and take. It's the ultimate challenge because there is so many variables to take into consideration unlike other divisions where each guy has to come in at or below a certain weight limit before fight night. Almost eliminating the guarantee of a huge size advantage factor or surprise. Whereas HW boxing's most exciting quality is the limitless weight factor or the surprise weight factor which is one of the best qualities that the HW division offers. That's kind of the point.
I would rather there was a super heavy weight division. I thought there was one already but it'd not there should be. An extra 12" of reach and 100lbs of weight ISN'T an even playing field - which is one of the plus of competitive sports - if the average heavyweight is 6'5" then a dude who's a foot taller and 100lbs heavier, is NOT is not a level playing field. We don't match kids against adults or pros against amateurs because of the very oblivious greater advantage one has over the other BEFORE the game even begins. Jmo :) Hope Teddy is feeling better, cheers!
once a guy gets over like 260 or so, they tend to be very slow and vulnerable to those around the 220 lb range who still have tremendous athleticism and power. From what we have seen so far, its like around 90% of the HW's over 260lbs are terribly ponderous and use too much fuel just to move around to have the stamina against an elite HW. Fury is obviously a huge exception to the laws of physics though lol. But athletes below 200 lbs all tend to have tremendous speed, agility, and athleticism, giving a 160 lbs fighter all the advantages over a 130 lb fighter that just isnt the same when men get to be around 270 lbs for the most part.
@@october4th475 Gotcha. But I could swear there was a super hw division though. And for the exact types of men and women you're talking about: UNUSUALLY big all the way around. 6' off height isn't that unusual to see. But OVER 6'5" AND SUPER hw(using the 260lbs+)people clamor for hws and smaller fighters because they see a part of themselves in there. Yeah. Sounds like a super hw division to me 😂 I think the real concern, thatisn't being stated, is that it could be turned into a side act, freak show. Sort of inverse of midgets. But you've already got women's boxing for that.
@@PhoenixProdLLC I see where you are going lol. I think if you made a 260+ division it would be a terrible division always ruled by one or two guys who can actually move and fight and mostly full of slow turds. There IS a super HW in amateur boxing, so you may be thinking of that. But pro boxing has never had a super HW division
@@october4th475 Butterbean? Ed White? I'm pretty sure they were pros. And they CLEARLY belong there just on their dimensions. I think more categories would draw more people to get involved, grow the sport, expand the audience...but ok. Just have one division then where NOBODY has a choice right? Put Fury with a midget and that should be ok because small, light guys fight fast, right? 😂😂
@@PhoenixProdLLC lol, dude, there is no super HW division in the pros man. I mean some side show BS like the Butterbean tough guy contest stuff is not part of the pro ranks of boxing man. I have been watching boxing since 85 and there is no super HW division.
Teddy’s absolutely right about this. It’s what happened in auto racing. They’ve put all these safety measures in place like restrictor plates, reduction of horse power, etc that they’ve basically lost the sport.
@MAGACOP OKay so say that they do make a super heavy weight division. That'll only water down the heavyweight division as it'll give it a sentiment that it's merely a "Jr" class like we have in any other class in boxing which i dont know if you agree but I'm a believer that there are too many divisions in boxing thanks to all the "Jr" classes plus 4 major sanctioning bodies? dude it'll only water down the sport even more. Not to mention, How deep do you think a super heavyweight class would be when north of 225lbs you only have a handful of people? again, separating something that doesnt need to be separated. And no there arent many heavyweight that are north of 225lbs and are solid muscle which this gives an edge to the smaller guys as Teddy Atlas pointed out. Idk man, bottom line is IF YOU GOT A SET OF BALLS YOU'LL TAKE YOUR CHANCES. Otherwise you'll be a part of the weak ass social justice warriors that need to be constantly protected and will demand the rules to be changed because of your lack of fortitude ;)
@MAGACOP Fury is not 5" taller than Wilder, and hes definitely not ALL muscle. At 6'7" if Wilder didnt spend 34 years skipping leg day he would also be around 260/265.
@@bombercountyblues yeah this is dodgy it makes it seems like fight vs Wilder was unfair because Wilder was only 230 if he actually trained those chicken legs he could be easy 245-250.Ngannou also made Stipe small with around 25 pounds advantage but he still got schooled.
We already have heavyweight and superheavyweight. Cruiserweight is the same way basically as amateur heavyweight. Cruiser weight is 176 to 200 pounds. In amateur‘s heavy weight is 179 to201.
I agree with Teddy. There are way too many weight divisions (not to mention sanctioning bodies). Safety is good, but we can have it done other ways- less rounds, better gear, less weight cutting, etc.
we can actually take out a few weight divisions at the top which would be better, like 168 and 154 and 140... but all the JR/SUPER weight divisions of the lower weights below 140 are necessary because the smaller guys are more sensitive to weight changes (us being so weak and all and each pound being more of a larger percentage of overall weight). On top of that it becomes very hard for people to make weight sometimes when they are sort of the guy in between weights, or if they are simply a small guy who wants to gain a little bit of muscle for just simply better looks without having to jump a total of 10 pounds higher in weight. 118 than 122 than 126 and than 130 are all needed for the above stated reasons, now the higher up JR/SUPER weights?? nah not really, also on a side note we don’t need the IBF and WBO titles period (iv actually never considered any ibf champions from the 80s true champions until they gained another title).
No but UFC weight limit of 260 lb is a good idea imo .I'd like to see ufc weight classes from 205 for light heavy down plus a 220 cruiser div ...40 lb dif is plenty
@@Jeremyramone No more divisions just higher limits cruiser 220 light heavy 205 etc all the way down .Then biggest dif between two heavyweights is 40 lb .As it is 100lb plus is possible with ease
@@Dave062YT not much to think about. Much easier for a 175er to cut to 170 than for a 168er to run away down to 155. This is also straight hands, you cant switch up and wrestle or kick a guy once he starts whupping you.
So, because Atlas comes up with ONE example of a HW outweighing his opponent by 100lbs and losing, that is supposed to negate Kellerman' point? It sucks, but create (yet another) division of say, 201 to 225lbs between cruiserweight and heavyweight. Heavy weight division 226lbs and up.
Teddy’s correct example a small Micheal Moore who even moved up to the Heavyweight division against 7 foot Mr.White ! Again Holyfield past his prime against Valuev in a fight he was robbed in !
It has to happen sometime. Maybe not now, but let's say people keep getting bigger and stronger. In 50 years if we have 7 footers routinely dominating the heavyweight divisiom, are we still going to leave it at 200+ pounds and talk about inspiring underdogs?
Totally respect Teddy's wisdom,knowledge ,& understanding of boxing.However I totally disagree with him on this subject. Over 200lbs is considered a HW,so matching a guy 6'1 205lbs vs a guys 6'7 250lbs is fair & safe??!! Absolutely not.Great inspirational speech, but a Super HW division is definitely needed .
You don’t want to lose the rich history of the heavyweight division by making a super heavyweight division which will be the supreme division . What you do instead of making a super heavyweight you make the cruiserweight a limit of 220 and below .
I agree with Teddy. Another point is there just is not enough of talent out there to justify the creation of a Super Heavyweight division. Many a fighter overcame size and skill of fighters by what Teddy has said. I believe a fighter that embodies what Teddy says regarding mind, heart and determination is Rocky Marciano. The size difference in Marciano's era was not as great and negligible. Yet he had the other intangibles Teddy always talks about. He overcome many of his deficiencies with outstanding conditioning, guts and determination. He had an undeniable belief in himself.
Seriously what is wrong with a Heavyweight division between 200-220lbs. That is what your classic 60/70/80’s heavyweight used to weigh. The big monsters competing today weigh 240lbs+ and are 6’5 at a minimum. 6’4 is classed as a short Heavy who would of ever of believed that. Normal size men are just to undersized to compete and the big men are just getting more skilled and athletic. You’ve got 6 weight classes between 112 - 130 at just 15lbs, that needs fixing. Why do 220lbs men have to fight 270lbs 6’9 Gypsy Kings Lol
once a guy gets over like 260 or so, they tend to be very slow and vulnerable to those around the 220 lb range who still have tremendous athleticism and power. From what we have seen so far, its like around 90% of the HW's over 260lbs are terribly ponderous and use too much fuel just to move around to have the stamina against an elite HW. Fury is obviously a huge exception to the laws of physics though lol. But athletes below 200 lbs all tend to have tremendous speed, agility, and athleticism, giving a 160 lbs fighter all the advantages over a 130 lb fighter that just isnt the same when men get to be around 270 lbs for the most part.
October 4th: go watch Wlad vs Haye if you think that’s the rule. A well coordinated big man can always find a way to neutralise speed. And Your talking like that’s all you need to get one over on bigger men and that there unskilled and un-athletic themselves while blatantly overlooking the advantages a much bigger man has in reach, power and strength. And who are the 200-220 pounders competing today that’s gonna pulling this off? Besides the Average Heavyweight today isn’t over 260lbs. The majority are from 6’4-6’8 and 230-270lbs. All for the most part incredibly large and athletic men
@@Rockstar-bq5fm For starters, you can't use rare exceptions to prove a general rules false. Thats why they are called exceptions. Of course Wlad is a very rare example in many ways but even he is not really a great example as he had stamina problems that Steward corrected by slowing his work rate down to help him get around it. I of course understand there are more athletic large men today than there were in the past, but the smaller men are not capped... they too are getting stronger and faster for their size. And no I did not act like speed is all one needs to overcome size. I mentioned several factors. I simply said that general physics keep 99% of giant men from being able to compete with elite HW's. Its what keeps the division balanced. The size of HW's will go down again when the Holyfields, Tysons, and Ali's begin to exploit their advantages over the larger men. With all other factors being equal, yes the bigger man tends to win. But when the smaller man is faster, more agile, more explosive, with much better stamina, the bigger men suddenly have only one advantage and more disadvantages.
Fighters will go where the money is and the money is HW. It will just mean fighters having restrictions and losing or gaining weight for the money division. Super HW will just mean more ostracism and fighters fighting at unnatural weights.
Heavyweight champ should be 200 to 250 pounds, that's it. Anything above that should be super heavyweight. If you want better heavyweight fights you need fighters that can move better. 215lb and 220 lb fighters move better, in most cases, than 260lb and 265lb fighters.
Yes it should be a Super heavyweight division back in the days they called Foreman in his prime 6"3 220 Big George Foreman. Now he's lil Foreman fighting against 6"7 250 giants.
I disagree, Teddy. There's too much of a weight and height gap within the heavyweight division. It's just too much, man! And you don't need to have THAT big of a difference to enjoy the conflict between the stronger fighter vs. the most technical boxer. You CAN have that (you have that in every division, actually) and still enjoy the great "lighter" heavyweights (like most heavyweights of the past, which were awesome) fighting among themselves and not against HUGE guys that are much more boring to watch, but almost impossible to beat. Adding another weight-class is NOT changing the rules of boxing!
I disagree. Those weight division are from the 19th Century. 190 pounds is almost the average for men this Day. We need a super heavyweight for the 250 lbs and note.
@@JeffPenaify Indeed. Most people are overweight. However, look at the athlete in the NFL. The average weight of a offensive lineman was 230 pounds in the 50's. Then 250 un the 70's 270 in the 80's. Now its more than 300. Also they are taller.
It will probably never happen because of greed, but I wish there could again be eight weight divisions, one world champion for the one world we have, for the boxing fan to again be able to name the world champ for each division without pulling out a smartphone.
Well, most sports watchers are fans but not fanatics. There is more going on in their lives than to know all that or even want to. So, the HW has traditionally, I think, been a kind of THE representation of the sport. So people get pretty keyed up about that division because 1. they know it's important even if they don't totally understand why, maybe they just saw the champ or contender on a talk show an v that's how they come by and 2. it's MUCH simpler and cheaper to market just one or two "names" than 50. I've talked to people who got into the sport watching the heavyweights and then started watching other fights and came to appreciate the smaller guys a bit more than the heavyweights. If you really, really like boxing, your attitude will be different than someone who has only heard of the sport. I think that's why guys like Teddy or fighters are going to have different opinions even from boxing fanatics. How close you are too the action defines your interest. Oddly, casual fans can be the bread and butter of about any sport, full time attention not required. Anyway, my bias is towards a hw division of people 6'5" and under. And yeah i know! Totally unrealistic of me. 😂
In the heavyweight division once you reach 97 kilos you have that KO power. End of story. If you wanna come in 240 lbs that's fine but remember most of the 240lbs heavyweights lack speed, they are all hell stiff and rely on heavy hands and little actual technical skill. Mike Tyson, Deontay Wilder and even David Tua all weighed around 97 kilos. They all have high KO rates against taller and bigger opponents. Why? Cos they have the perfect balance of speed and power. If Tyson came in 240 he would be a bit slower and lose that power. Tyson at 220 was the perfect weight for knocking out any heavyweight or hurting them enough. My opinion is once you reach 97 kilos there can be a 50lbs difference.
Superb summation Teddy - agree 1000% . Overcoming .... a lost idea these days . The junior / super divisions were put in for economic reasons .... more titles , more champs . Brilliant Teddy - keep it up 😎👊
when you are a legit (barefoot) 6ft 2in - 6ft 3in or taller, you can beat anyone, even a 7ft monster. The problem is the size they declare most of the time is fake. For ex. andy ruiz is not 6ft 2in! he is in the 5ft 11in range. Holyfield was not 6ft 2,5in, he was max 6ft 1in. Mike tyson was 5ft 9,5in barefoot. Lennox lewis was a full 6ft 3in or 6ft 4in and he could beat anyone. Interviewed about his size, lewis said: i am 6ft 3in-6ft 4in. Riddick bowe was similar to lewis. Lewis and bowe were tall and big but under 6ft 5in or not over 6ft 5in.
Instead of super-heavyweight, create a super-cruiserweight class. That way no prestige is taken away from heavyweight, and guys who aren't quite big enough for heavyweight will have a fair class to compete in. Cruiserweight can be 195, and Super-Cruiser can be 215.
@David Gold If you weigh 225 pounds, it's a lot to ask for you to fight a guy like Tyson Fury or Anthony Joshua, who came in "skinny" for the Ruiz rematch at 240. They also can't get down to 200, so they're stuck.
@David Gold I agree that we need less divisions, that's why we should get rid of 105, 108, 112, 115. Seriously, in this day and age, how many grown men do you know that weigh less than 120 pounds? Even among Mexicans and Asians it's rare to find men that small. But Men between 195-225? That's a large percentage of the population now.
Handfloboxingreview all that would happen is smaller guys would have to put on even more weight to get money fights making them slower and giving the big guys even more advantages. Stupid idea imo
@@handfloboxingreview1673 how, if they get separated? As they are Usyk might beat Joshua, but not if you add a class that splits them, and if Usyk beats him anyway in a catchweight without adding on any weight then what would have been the use of the extra weight class then?
Height, just as much as weight matters.. when teo boxers are far apart in height,, it doesnt matter good a short bixer is. The tall bixer will beat a short boxer if theyre both good. Height adds reach and makes for a boeing fight, tall pumps the jab all night long and resta behind it. Why is he ripping on him. Hes got. Point. Listen it shouldn't be based weight, but also based on Height. Foreman was considered huge at 6' 2 225. You got fury and wilder nearing 6'10 and Fury weighing over 270lbs. Wilder ate his words and found out what 270lb big man do. UNLIMITED AMOUT OF DAMAGE. SUPER HEAVY WE8GHT SHOULD BE OVER 6'3 AND OVER 240.
It doesn't matter how good a short boxer is? Are you aware of who Mike Tyson, or Joe Frazier, or Manny Pacquiao are? All boxers who were almost always shorter than their opponents.
Above 6′7″ and 250lbs has become the norm for HW-champions and top 10 fighters. IMO this is reason enough for a super heavyweight class. But if a good lighter shorter fighter wants to fight in that class than give him that opportunity.
Its really simple there are not enough super heavy weight fighters around. Most HWs are not 7 foot and 270 pounds. Look how steve cunningham gave Fury his hardest fight.
@Ben Lowe There are not enough good Super heavy weights to justify a division. After two years they would of fought each other and you would be left watching useless lumps getting knocked out. In my opinion keep the division open it allows some smaller fighters who have talent to get involved. There are some decent light HWs out there it will be interesting to see how Usyk gets on. I believe if he sticks to good tactics he can beat a lot of the supers. Obviously a fighter like Fury is very big and also.skillful so will be hard to beat but no need to make a new division. If Fury keeps fighting he will slip up and lose as at some point he will go into a fight not mentally.ready. Its happened.to all the Hws if they fight 40 plus fights. I think if people want smaller fighters then make them fight 15 rounds again. Honestly a lot of these big guys can be out pointed if a.skillful.smaller guy sticks and moves. Yes the trend is for getting bigger and bigger but really that doesnt make you unbeatable a.lot of these fighters are really not that great. Ruiz is only 6 foot out of shape and managed to upset AJ. Also Wilder has been successful at 205 pounds. David Haye was reasonably successful. The main issue is they only fight twice a year so these guys unfortunately never get to.build the resume of the olden days fighters. Really for boxing to be interesting again they should.really be fighting 4 times.a year. Are.you really the baddest man on the planet if you can only have a fight once or twice a year In my opinion your not. Having them fight more regularly will discourage massive PED using beasts as their bodies will not recover.
Also Ali boxed around the same weight as Wilder. When you look at Ali.s.fitness combinations Chin and determination to win I think he would have beat these guys. Some people constantly throw this argument out there that todays boxers are faster and stronger etc than before. I really dont believe it. Actually watch footage of ray leonard or hearns or ray robinson would they really of lacked power and speed and skill compared to todays middle weights I dont believe it. All the science and studies of daily calorie intake and levels of obesity shows us that in the 1920s (the old days) the general.population had much lower levels of obesity and still ate more calories than we do today this points to a big difference in general fitness despite gyms etc in the modern world. Combine a fotter and tougher population with their being ten times bigger pool.of boxing talent and you have the reason why boxing is not interesting. You cant have a sport where the athlete you follow competes twice a year. Imagine Federer playing two tennis matches a year??. I know boxers need rest etc but 4.should be minimum.foghts for an uninjured boxer.
@Ben Lowe doesnt the fact a weak fighter like valuev won a world title point to a sparsity of talent already in the division without us splitting it again. Also Valuev lost to David Haye who essentially was.a.crusier weight eho stepped up
Everybody agrees weight classes make a difference unless, apparently, you start talking about heavyweights, and then the blinders come on. I get it, everyone has this romantic notion of heavyweight boxing, but weight classes matter; that's just reality. I'm no fan of how many different weight classes there are these days, and would probably do away with the junior and super classes if I had my druthers, because the differences there are manageable, but in the heavyweight divison we've got 270 pound guys coming into fights with guys weighing 220 -- 50lbs apart, or more. Proportionally speaking, that's roughly equal to a middleweight facing a lightweight. We recognize that as an affront to fair competition, so why not this?
once a guy gets over like 250 or 260 or so, they tend to be very slow and vulnerable to those around the 220 lb range who still have tremendous athleticism and power. From what we have seen so far, its like around 90% of the HW's over 260lbs are terribly ponderous and use too much fuel just to move around to have the stamina against an elite HW. Fury is obviously a huge exception to the laws of physics though lol. But athletes below 200 lbs all tend to have tremendous speed, agility, and athleticism, giving a 160 lbs fighter all the advantages over a 130 lb fighter that just isnt the same when men get to be around 270 lbs for the most part.
@@october4th475 > they tend to be > from what I heard The best heavyweight boxer in the world right now is 270+ and 6'9. Frankly, outside of the first Wilder fight, he really hasn't had much trouble and that's against some of the biggest and most athletic men on the planet. But let's go back 20 years, Lennox Lewis at the end of the 90s and early 00s was absolutely massive in comparison to his opponents and I still think his 245 weight was on the low side. Then you had the Klitschko bros that came in and also dominated (Wladimir was more of a mid-late bloomer) until more heavyweights came in to catch up to their size.
Wish we could go back to 8 weight divisions and 1 champ per division.
Paul Mackiewicz I’d accept just one champ per division
Unfortunately its going the opposite direction
I've been saying for years our only hope is a boxing breakaway, so it would take a tv network, maybe 1 or 2 promoters & a healthy roster a mix of younger and established fighters to change everything that is corrupt in boxing and if we had one title per division then nobody could duck anyone. If you're the champion you have a mandatory every 12 months or you get stripped no ifs and buts.
@@jasonconway3953 I don't know about that. It's an enormous opportunity actually.
Amen! But here you have people talking about creating a super heavy weight class. GTFOH!!!!
Definitely didn’t rip him. Respectfully disagreed. There’s a difference.
@MAGACOP he aint wrong at all is he really
@MAGACOP bs man its boxing simple if was so many weight discrepancies why don't boxers say it they don't they are fighting men and deal with it
@MAGACOP all this cuz wilder got manhandled i don't get it no1 said fuk all in the draw lol
@MAGACOP u know nuthin at all about boxing, nuthin
@MAGACOP Passed a certain skeletal structure, power, and size - most heavyweights can hurt most other heavyweights. Think about this objectively. There are no muscles on the chin, temples, or face region - regions full of nerves. Even the intercostals have narrow strips of muscles. Body fat is really the only insulant (to go over muscles).
Andy Ruiz was 6'2" - and while he has fast hands and good defense from midrange - inside, he has slow feet and average defense from the outside. And yet, he hurt and stopped the 6'6" Joshua in their first fight and forced Joshua to change strategy for the second. *6'2"*. That's comparable to what Joe Louis (6'1-1/2") did versus the 6'6" Primo Carnera (former undisputed heavyweight champ). Louis's record was 19-0-0, with 15 KOs - and he weight 196Lbs. He stopped Carnera (who weighed 261Lbs) in 6 rounds 🤷🏾♂️.
Obviously, individuals like GGG and Jermall Charlo simply don't have the skeletal structure, muscle mass, & power to safely compete up at cruiserweight, much less heavyweight. If you don't understand, then here's a comparison. GGG is 5'10" and probably walked around 172 in his prime (to get down to 160). Prime Mike Tyson was also 5'10". But *look* at their muscle mass and their skeletal structures - COMPLETELY different animals. With his muscle mass, it would have probably put a prime Mike in the hospital to even think of getting down to 180Lbs - and yet the most dangerous version of Mike was the fast & powerful version in the mid 1980's that averaged less than 225Lbs.
teddy always grasps my attention when he speaks
Yeah, you can feel his passion.
HW should remain as it is. The absence of upper limit and the resulting weight disparities are part of the mystique of the HW division.
until theres a three hundred and ten pound phenom that has to fight someone at 210, and kills the guy.
Historically all weight classes evolved as humans and weight training evolve.
220lbs 6ft2 vs. 270lbs 6f9 is kinda problematic nowdays. A real good small Heavyweight gonna be stuck as a journeyman cause hé cant compete with skilled Giants & dont Wanna kill himself to make Cruserweight limit.
just how many 6'9 fighters are there? enough to populate a division? Or is it going to be tyson fury knocks out bum of the month acromegaly sufferer? I dont think the average height of HW division fighters has increased as much as people think it has. We have more freaks at the elite level now, but the average height hasn't changed much just from what i can gather at a glance on google.
then find another line of work.
@Azzury Street you had me until you said Marciano would KO AJ in 2 rounds 🤣🤦♂️
@Azzury Street Liston with 84” reach. and fists measured 15 inches add to that he was powerful puncher he would knock down most if the heavyweights nowadays.
That could be true. But at 6’2, that would be a smaller heavy weight. He is definitely used to fighting taller opponents. But, I think a well put together, well proportioned fighter around 6’3 and a half to 6’4 would knock them out. Someone like Foreman, Holmes, Ali, etc. The main problem with boxing isn’t the weight classes. It’s that nobody boxes anymore. In college, we started a boxing club. We had like 20 guys. We changed the name of the club the next year to a kickboxing club to see if we could get more people, so we wouldn’t get dropped for lack of membership. Some of us already trained in martial arts, mainly because there were no boxing clubs, so to save our club, we took a shot. 150 people signed up! Boxing = 20 people. Kickboxing =150. And, that was before MMA. That pretty much sums it up. Also, boxing isn’t taught anymore in high school. There are no scholarships in college, as in football, and basketball. So, a lot of bigger, and gifted athletes go into those sports, and why wouldn’t they? The only reason I learned to box was because my father boxed. When I told him that I wanted to box for a living, he said getting hit in the face everyday for little to no money, is a hard way to earn a living. And, for most boxers, it certainly is.
Staten Island's finest; The Doctor, The Trainer, The Fighter... FOR WHAT IS RIGHT! Teddy Atlas.
Emanuel Steward was the first person I saw suggest it.
Teddy Atlas the greatest philosopher of boxing !
Marko Ivanovic after his tutor
When someone adds "rips" in the tittle just to get more views...
Yeah, I'll be kind of surprised to find out Rob pulled a Clickbait intentionally. Maybe it was an unconscious decision.
Yeah, how about Lomachenko vs Alvarez? That make sense?
Sam Langford was a light weight moved up to heavy weight and beat the heavyweights he was also 5f 7in not a big guy
HENTAI LORD: your talking about a fighter from the 20’s who by all standards was considered a freak of nature.
Seriously what that man did would be like Bud Crawford fighting in every division up to Cruiser. It’s unthinkable
@@Rockstar-bq5fm maybe but what about canelo moving up to light heavy weight or roy jones moving up the heavy weight. i will be honest if the division gets split up even more boxing will die even faster i know for a fact many of my friend do not watch boxing because its complicated they tell 3, 4 champions at one time and the difference in weight class is some times 10, 5 pounds
HENTAI LORD: Canelo fought a old washed champion with a Rehydration clause after he just had a war not 8 weeks before and Roy fought John Ruiz for the regular belt when Lennox was the proper champion.. that’s all that needs saying.
Roy’s was quite impressive considering he started at 154(?) and fought all the way up to Heavyweight. But they don’t compare a stitch to what Langford did
As for more weight classes who’s it gonna hurt really. Your friend says there’s to many weight-classes but does he even know what’s heavier a flyweight or a feather? Same with 90% of casuals out there. They just don’t care to educate themselves about the sport. To be fair though the number of belts is horribly diluting the sport more than the weight-classes. And I gotta say boxing is not dying I’m tired of hearing that shit, the sport is bringing in more money, is on more networks than ever before and has never been spread more worldwide
Finally it’s not hard to tell the difference between a heavyweight and a Superheavy, it’s been that way in the Amateurs since the 80’s. Just my opinion though but how does it split the talent pool when the top 15 in most everyone’s rankings are over 230lbs? Who are the super small Heavyweights today that are beating the Giants? Honestly I think people are crying over nothing because there isn’t a 220lbs man besides Usyk or Hunter that can win a title and people don’t think they can even
Danny B I see your point. Still, athletes who are below 200 lbs can all tend to be extremely fast, agile, and athletic, making it so Canelo would have almost all the advantages over a guy like Loma. But once a guy gets over like 250 or 260 or so, they tend to be very slow and vulnerable to those around the 220 lb range who still have tremendous athleticism and power. From what we have seen so far, its like around 90% of the HW's over 260lbs are terribly ponderous and use too much fuel just to move around to have the stamina against an elite HW. Fury is obviously a huge exception to the laws of physics though lol.
Sam Langford fought Jack Johnson and lost but Johnson refused to fight him again. He was beating guys late in his career like Tiger Flowers (2nd round ko) when he was nearly blind. Harry Wills appeared to have his number, but Sam Langford may be the most underrated and unknown fighter of all time. He was a complete beast.
Every other weight is roughly 7lb , yet heavyweight can be stones apart, it's not right.
Yeh Teddy we all know Holyfield " found a way."
Old timer because they weight drain dramatically and can easily burn weight. There's a reason HWs fight to a much older age. You will just see smaller guys putting on unnecessary weight to be where the money is and getting blasted out even worse.
once a guy gets over like 260 or so, they tend to be very slow and vulnerable to those around the 220 lb range who still have tremendous athleticism and power. From what we have seen so far, its like around 90% of the HW's over 260lbs are terribly ponderous and use too much fuel just to move around to have the stamina against an elite HW. Fury is obviously a huge exception to the laws of physics though lol. But athletes below 200 lbs all tend to have tremendous speed, agility, and athleticism, giving a 160 lbs fighter all the advantages over a 130 lb fighter that just isnt the same when men get to be around 270 lbs for the most part.
@@october4th475 exactly and people forget Fury was dropped on his ass and said his hardest fight was Steve Cunningham where he was getting outboxed and had to really muscle his way through. Cunningham is a good fighter but he's not some ATG heavyweight. I think Fury is more comfortable fighting guys his size cause he can use his speed and movement, Wallin gave him problems cause he's not that big and had the right little man gameplan
@@JeffPenaify Yeah man, exactly. And the divisional size ranges come and go. The giants are in for now but they will give way to smaller more nimble athletes eventually and transform back to that 6' 215 lb range I think, and again some giants will come along with exceptional skill and attributes and turn it back to giants again
@@october4th475 exactly, otherwise Mariusz Pudzianowski, Brian Shaw and The Mountain would be the top heavyweights in the world n making way more money than they do throwing rocks n racing wheelbarrows n such stuff.
The Valuev point was checkmate as far as I’m concerned. The heavyweight division is what it is, and it’s too special and rich in history to mess with now. Leave it alone.
Dr. Mofongo if they added super hw the smaller guys would just pack on weight to go where the money is. Which would result in worse beatings for them. There's a reason Usyk, Gassiev, Haye, Holyfield, Bellew, Cunningham and most cruisers jump to HW. For the money
Valuev the biggest unskilled freak show boxing has ever produced is not a good example of the heavyweight division when the actual class of the Heavyweight division at that time were the Klitscho brothers who were the true Super Heavies.
And Wlad played with David Haye who scraped by a useless Valuev
Rockstar 1996 The point that Teddy made with Valuev was strictly to show that having a size advantage doesn’t automatically equate to a win. In Valuev’s case, the size difference was extreme, which lends itself to the assumption that he held an “unfair” advantage over anyone he faced. As Atlas pointed out however, a smaller, faster, and yes, more skilled fighter may actually have the advantage. There are multiple facets to the game, so in essence the example of Valuev serves to illustrate Teddy’s point very well. You noted his lack of skill as well, so in a way you’re making the same point. No one is saying he was the class of the division, or a fighter that should be held in high esteem. But given the extreme size difference, someone might assume his opponents stood no chance against him, and we obviously know that was not the case.
Dr. Mofongo: He’s picking the worst example of a Super Heavyweight and making that his focal point. His argument is as thin as a piece of paper, 6’2 220lbs men weren’t beating Wlad and Vitali. It took a another Super Heavy to do it
Haye couldn’t beat Them and he wouldn’t beat any of the champs today. He’s just to small for a skilled “big” man. And that goes for the majority of small Heavyweights now as well.
Btw Go watch old Atlas interviews on the Klitscko brothers, he absolutely hates them it’s hysterical
Rockstar 1996 Wladimir was KO’d by Lamon Brewster (6’2-226), and Corrie Sanders (6’4-225). And when Fury beat him, as he himself pointed out, it was by boxing him, something no other opponent had done prior. Not saying a smaller man beating a bigger man is an everyday occurrence. Just saying that the heavyweight division not having a ceiling makes it unique in that it allows for that difference in skill set to shine and overcome a size “advantage” one might see on paper. This is what sets it apart from the other divisions, and my vote is to let it remain as is.
We need fewer belts and fewer weight divisions.
Delusional.
I'd like to go back to the original weight divisions.
I knew he was going to mention Sam Langford, I kept waiting for Teddy to finally spit it out :)
I would say the biggest factor is that nature tends to weed the giants out from being able to compete at elite level. Physics limits men over a certain size from being able to have the stamina, agility, and speed to complete with 225 lb elite fighters for the most part.
Exactly... I think this is only being said by people that are salty about fury being champ.
@@bombercountyblues Well there has been argument for a while about this, so it goes back before Fury. But Fury for sure is reigniting the discussion right now, absolutely. Right now the hardcore Wilder fan base is going insane trying to take credit away from Fury and erase the beating he gave Wilder. Rarely have I seen a fan base this sour. Its embarassing
is it ok to had wbc-wba-ibf-wbo- champions - years ago middleweights fought heavyweights there was no supermiddle 1979 lightheavy 1903 - or cruiserweight 1984 than if there are more boxers at superweight then make it
Love the show!
Max pretends to be a boxing expert. Roy Jones jr used to correct him all the time on HBO. Now Teddy been through the ropes. I like Teddy
He lost is title to David Haye who was a cruiserweight champion before that fight
It doesn't make sense to have such tight restrictions for the lighter weight classes and no limit on the heavyweight division. Either cap it like the UFC or open up a super heavy division at 240lbs.
once a guy gets over like 250 or 260 or so, they tend to be very slow and vulnerable to those around the 220 lb range who still have tremendous athleticism and power. From what we have seen so far, its like around 90% of the HW's over 260lbs are terribly ponderous and use too much fuel just to move around to have the stamina against an elite HW. Fury is obviously a huge exception to the laws of physics though lol. But athletes below 200 lbs all tend to have tremendous speed, agility, and athleticism, giving a 160 lbs fighter all the advantages over a 130 lb fighter that just isnt the same when men get to be around 270 lbs for the most part.
If wilder had managed to k.o. fury,, nobody would even be talking about this.
The heavyweight division is the oldest and most glamorous division of them all. Especially because it is open upwards. Just disqualify those mutants who do not Box but lean on their opponents and everything is fine. Boxing does not allow clinching, grappling, wrestling or throws. If you are strict with the Marquess of Queensberry Rules, there is no need for another division.
Boxing has never been strict with Queensbury rules when it comes to clinching, look at Jack Johnson's fights 😂 clinching is a fundamental part of Boxing and its like jay walking as far as Queensbury rules go.
@@JeffPenaify Exactly, how to tie your opponent up, is the most important thing they teach you in boxing, cos the first time you catch a hot one it had better be your default instinct.
Its hard to draw a line though when someone is using it for recovery/ survival or just taking liberties n stinking up the fight.
Jeff Boxing And others followed the rules. All up to the referee 😊
@@MrRingai I look at clinching the same way as I look at running, you re a pro fighter figure it out, fight out of it. Man you watch old school fighters they didn't stop working just cause they're in a clinch. That's the problem with today guys just passively get wrapped and dont make space or work inside, just wait on the ref
@@JeffPenaify yeah, some of those old guys a clinch was the last thing you wanted to do, cos theyd mess your body up
I remember seeing and reading interviews with well known trainers. The general consensus of opinion was that at somewhere around 220 pounds, power, speed, agility, and endurance were more efficiently maximized. And, at that weight, the power, with proper form and execution, was more than sufficient to bring down any man. Also, the height with the correct frame for a fighter, to best carry and deliver at that weight, would be around 6’2 to 6’4. They all suggested that there would be, and has been, exceptions with the mix of height and weight, but that wasn’t the norm. When you got too tall, you would lose agility. If you got to heavy your mobility and endurance would suffer. The if you were too much shorter, you would lose too much reach, and so on. It all seems to be so, except for some notable exceptions. Love listening to Teddy. He is a treasure to the sport of the Sweet Science.
The problem is that those figures probably didn’t account for steroid/PED use. Unfortunately it is a part of the fight game nowadays
It's all about reach distance jab leverage.If you can't get in range you can't land.
@@jeffscuderi8662 Head movement and timing negate reach advantage though. And a 220 lb athlete tends to be MUCH faster and more agile as well as having MUCH more stamina than a 270 lb guy. Nature weeds out most giants being able to compete at elite level. Fury is an exception
@@october4th475 64 and up I count Lewis foreman bowe klitsschois Briggs carner a valu ev Sanders wilder fury Joshua etc you have to get inside past the jab and off the end of the punches.Can be done sometimes but not easy.
@@jeffscuderi8662 I am not trying to be disrespectful or rude, I'm just not sure what you were saying there. Could you please type a bit more accurately please? what do all those names have in common? Only one or two of them was over 260 lbs and all of them had flaws that made it possible for smaller HW's to exploit them. Those names are mostly not the giants people are claiming to be too big for HW.
There's too many weight classes as is. There's typically 2 to 5 pounds between each division. 2 to 5 pounds is not enough to separate the divisions.
interesting that he mentioned Valuev as the giant and Holyfield, the small, actually, they fought each other when Holy was already kind of old +40...Evander offically lost but actually won in my scorecard....
Great point Teddy !
Also haye, another former cruiserweight champ did take the belt from him
@@bombercountyblues Yeah, that was an official decision， Haye won fair and square could have scored a KO...Concerning the other fight, I've just checked: Holyfield was 46 years old at that time !!! Not only in my scorecard he won but also for another judge it was a majority decision for the Giant, who was the champion. The bout in Germany, Valuev the product of German organisation/promotion, so those kinds of decisions, we all know, unfortunetly are commun, LV etc.
would you do more videos on Sam Langford and what fights of his are on UA-cam that you would recommend
thanks teddy for checking max and can we please stop giving max kellerman credit as some kind of authority on boxing, i dont care how much u study or think u know, u r not an autjority if u havent done it and its a shame that he has his own show on espn, what a joke but than again espn has become a joke, they have so many people and women talking about shit they have never ever done
If anything we need fewer weight classes. Not more.
Max is just sucking up for attention. Teddy knows history and Max just read about it. Big difference.
Heavyweight Division should remain undivided. Size isn't always a fighters biggest attribute for a that division. Many times in the HW division size may work against the bigger guy. Lets not try to lose sight of what the HW division represents. The top of the food chain. Where you can put a Lion in with an Elephant. A Grizzly wIth a crocodile. It's the ultimate weight class to display your greatness and ability to figure out ways to compete.
Wolf Trey Yea sorry the only HW fighter’s that could do that have to have compact, small builds. Guys who are tall and lean don’t have that.
@@aaronam0115 Not always true. For the most part if you are a Heavy Weight regardless of a huge weight mismatch there is still a good opportunity to win the fight, for instance most heavyweights even the average HW can turn the tide with one dynamic punch at any time but at the elite level some HW's have the equalizer but lack fundamentals like Wilder while some HW's have the speed and technique like Usyk but lack the size and other HW's have the fundamentals and size but lack a dependable chin like Joshua while other HW's do have the size and IQ but lack the devastating power like Tyson Fury. There's always a give and take. It's the ultimate challenge because there is so many variables to take into consideration unlike other divisions where each guy has to come in at or below a certain weight limit before fight night. Almost eliminating the guarantee of a huge size advantage factor or surprise. Whereas HW boxing's most exciting quality is the limitless weight factor or the surprise weight factor which is one of the best qualities that the HW division offers. That's kind of the point.
I hate when they say RIPS, DESTROYS etc and then it's a friendly discussion lmao click bait
I would rather there was a super heavy weight division. I thought there was one already but it'd not there should be. An extra 12" of reach and 100lbs of weight ISN'T an even playing field - which is one of the plus of competitive sports - if the average heavyweight is 6'5" then a dude who's a foot taller and 100lbs heavier, is NOT is not a level playing field. We don't match kids against adults or pros against amateurs because of the very oblivious greater advantage one has over the other BEFORE the game even begins. Jmo :) Hope Teddy is feeling better, cheers!
once a guy gets over like 260 or so, they tend to be very slow and vulnerable to those around the 220 lb range who still have tremendous athleticism and power. From what we have seen so far, its like around 90% of the HW's over 260lbs are terribly ponderous and use too much fuel just to move around to have the stamina against an elite HW. Fury is obviously a huge exception to the laws of physics though lol. But athletes below 200 lbs all tend to have tremendous speed, agility, and athleticism, giving a 160 lbs fighter all the advantages over a 130 lb fighter that just isnt the same when men get to be around 270 lbs for the most part.
@@october4th475 Gotcha. But I could swear there was a super hw division though. And for the exact types of men and women you're talking about: UNUSUALLY big all the way around. 6' off height isn't that unusual to see. But OVER 6'5" AND SUPER hw(using the 260lbs+)people clamor for hws and smaller fighters because they see a part of themselves in there.
Yeah. Sounds like a super hw division to me 😂 I think the real concern, thatisn't being stated, is that it could be turned into a side act, freak show. Sort of inverse of midgets. But you've already got women's boxing for that.
@@PhoenixProdLLC I see where you are going lol. I think if you made a 260+ division it would be a terrible division always ruled by one or two guys who can actually move and fight and mostly full of slow turds. There IS a super HW in amateur boxing, so you may be thinking of that. But pro boxing has never had a super HW division
@@october4th475 Butterbean? Ed White?
I'm pretty sure they were pros. And they CLEARLY belong there just on their dimensions.
I think more categories would draw more people to get involved, grow the sport, expand the audience...but ok. Just have one division then where NOBODY has a choice right? Put Fury with a midget and that should be ok because small, light guys fight fast, right? 😂😂
@@PhoenixProdLLC lol, dude, there is no super HW division in the pros man. I mean some side show BS like the Butterbean tough guy contest stuff is not part of the pro ranks of boxing man. I have been watching boxing since 85 and there is no super HW division.
Teddy’s absolutely right about this. It’s what happened in auto racing. They’ve put all these safety measures in place like restrictor plates, reduction of horse power, etc that they’ve basically lost the sport.
Dont ever come up with a silly idea like that again Max! lol!
MAGACOP listen to the video dude.
@MAGACOP OKay so say that they do make a super heavy weight division. That'll only water down the heavyweight division as it'll give it a sentiment that it's merely a "Jr" class like we have in any other class in boxing which i dont know if you agree but I'm a believer that there are too many divisions in boxing thanks to all the "Jr" classes plus 4 major sanctioning bodies? dude it'll only water down the sport even more. Not to mention, How deep do you think a super heavyweight class would be when north of 225lbs you only have a handful of people? again, separating something that doesnt need to be separated. And no there arent many heavyweight that are north of 225lbs and are solid muscle which this gives an edge to the smaller guys as Teddy Atlas pointed out. Idk man, bottom line is IF YOU GOT A SET OF BALLS YOU'LL TAKE YOUR CHANCES. Otherwise you'll be a part of the weak ass social justice warriors that need to be constantly protected and will demand the rules to be changed because of your lack of fortitude ;)
@MAGACOP Fury is not 5" taller than Wilder, and hes definitely not ALL muscle. At 6'7" if Wilder didnt spend 34 years skipping leg day he would also be around 260/265.
rebeldia33 Tell me, could Joe Frazier beat Wlad Klitschko? Be honest.
@@aaronam0115 Lamon Brewster did....
Love u Teddy
Who else is legit 6.8 and 270 pounds beside Tyson Fury it would be one man division.This is really stupid idea.
I want to see Fury fight someone like Butterbean. Or mini-me. 😁
Pretty sure fury being the current number one is the only reason this is even being spoke of.
@@bombercountyblues yeah this is dodgy it makes it seems like fight vs Wilder was unfair because Wilder was only 230 if he actually trained those chicken legs he could be easy 245-250.Ngannou also made Stipe small with around 25 pounds advantage but he still got schooled.
Miller has been about 300 pounds plus in some of his fights thats huge
We already have heavyweight and superheavyweight. Cruiserweight is the same way basically as amateur heavyweight. Cruiser weight is 176 to 200 pounds. In amateur‘s heavy weight is 179 to201.
Love Teddy but he all the points he made were literally all points that make Max's argument better
Edgar Torres exactly he basically agreed that a smaller HW wold have to pull off a literal miracle to beat a huge HW
I agree with Teddy. There are way too many weight divisions (not to mention sanctioning bodies). Safety is good, but we can have it done other ways- less rounds, better gear, less weight cutting, etc.
When did max say he wanted another division?
Since when are smaller people smarter?
No super heavyweight division!
I think Max is full of shit but a Super Heavyweight division may actually be needed now
we can actually take out a few weight divisions at the top which would be better, like 168 and 154 and 140... but all the JR/SUPER weight divisions of the lower weights below 140 are necessary because the smaller guys are more sensitive to weight changes (us being so weak and all and each pound being more of a larger percentage of overall weight). On top of that it becomes very hard for people to make weight sometimes when they are sort of the guy in between weights, or if they are simply a small guy who wants to gain a little bit of muscle for just simply better looks without having to jump a total of 10 pounds higher in weight. 118 than 122 than 126 and than 130 are all needed for the above stated reasons, now the higher up JR/SUPER weights?? nah not really, also on a side note we don’t need the IBF and WBO titles period (iv actually never considered any ibf champions from the 80s true champions until they gained another title).
Where did Max say that? Wanna see his arguments
He has no argument other than Wilder skipped leg day.
Hey Teddy.Never agree with Kellermen.. You tha man.
..Jess Willard ..Id like to introduce you to Jack Dempsey.
Rips max ? Teddy first words to come out his mouth , I love max
I don't think this was Teddy's best argument.
Why not?
@@OG_johnsmith Because sheer size and weight matters, otherwise we wouldn't have divisions at all.
Teddy u impress me every time u talk. Such an inspiration. ... U truly are a class act and the best thing that ever happened to boxing ##THEBEST
No but UFC weight limit of 260 lb is a good idea imo .I'd like to see ufc weight classes from 205 for light heavy down plus a 220 cruiser div ...40 lb dif is plenty
260 limit is sound but everything else no. There's already plenty of weight division s. Its enough already
@@Jeremyramone No more divisions just higher limits cruiser 220 light heavy 205 etc all the way down .Then biggest dif between two heavyweights is 40 lb .As it is 100lb plus is possible with ease
UFC divisions would put guys like Charlo with the Bivols and Bertebievs of this world. Be a death every weekend.
@@MrRingai I dont think so
@@Dave062YT not much to think about. Much easier for a 175er to cut to 170 than for a 168er to run away down to 155. This is also straight hands, you cant switch up and wrestle or kick a guy once he starts whupping you.
lol besides babe ruth and lou gehrig, I didn't know any of those names
Josh Portnoy You never heard of Hank Aaron or Szut Blameeser or Willie Mays or Ty Cobb or Dizzy Gillespie?
@@rickrick5041 i know gillespie but he was scoring jazz tunes and heroine, not home runs
Josh Portnoy It was in little league
Boxing weight categories (wo/men) keep changing all the time if Atles and Max agree or not.
Money decides not people.
So, because Atlas comes up with ONE example of a HW outweighing his opponent by 100lbs and losing, that is supposed to negate Kellerman' point?
It sucks, but create (yet another) division of say, 201 to 225lbs between cruiserweight and heavyweight. Heavy weight division 226lbs and up.
Teddy’s correct example a small Micheal Moore who even moved up to the Heavyweight division against 7 foot Mr.White !
Again Holyfield past his prime against Valuev in a fight he was robbed in !
Teddy is spot on as usual. X
It has to happen sometime. Maybe not now, but let's say people keep getting bigger and stronger. In 50 years if we have 7 footers routinely dominating the heavyweight divisiom, are we still going to leave it at 200+ pounds and talk about inspiring underdogs?
Totally respect Teddy's wisdom,knowledge ,& understanding of boxing.However I totally disagree with him on this subject. Over 200lbs is considered a HW,so matching a guy 6'1 205lbs vs a guys 6'7 250lbs is fair & safe??!! Absolutely not.Great inspirational speech, but a Super HW division is definitely needed .
I'd rather see a Super Heavyweight Division, so that I don't have to see these delusional "pRiMe" Mike Tyson fans saying he would beat Tyson Fury lmao
You don’t want to lose the rich history of the heavyweight division by making a super heavyweight division which will be the supreme division . What you do instead of making a super heavyweight you make the cruiserweight a limit of 220 and below .
Then you'd just end up with the same problem at cruiserweight though.. 219lb men vs 175lb.
Well said from Teddy.
How about Sultan Ibragimov Teddy?
I agree with Teddy. Another point is there just is not enough of talent out there to justify the creation of a Super Heavyweight division. Many a fighter overcame size and skill of fighters by what Teddy has said.
I believe a fighter that embodies what Teddy says regarding mind, heart and determination is Rocky Marciano. The size difference in Marciano's era was not as great and negligible. Yet he had the other intangibles Teddy always talks about. He overcome many of his deficiencies with outstanding conditioning, guts and determination. He had an undeniable belief in himself.
HOW ABOUT START WITH FIGHTERS NOT BEING ALLOWED TO SIZE BULLY BY CUTTING DANGEROUS AMOUNTS OF WEIGHT?
Thats the more pertinent topic. Weight cuts are also dangerous for the bully cos that water around the brain is also reduced.
Man he's a great motivator. Never boxed competitively just street fighting and martial arts. Makes me wanna train like a pro.
mooeing Why does everyone who hasn’t boxed competitively, always claims to be some crazy street fighter lol
@@reneiscool22 never said I was crazy. Just never fought in the ring. Just with friends and competitors in the hallway and yard etc
mooeing I apologize for being sarcastic
Seriously what is wrong with a Heavyweight division between 200-220lbs. That is what your classic 60/70/80’s heavyweight used to weigh. The big monsters competing today weigh 240lbs+ and are 6’5 at a minimum. 6’4 is classed as a short Heavy who would of ever of believed that.
Normal size men are just to undersized to compete and the big men are just getting more skilled and athletic. You’ve got 6 weight classes between 112 - 130 at just 15lbs, that needs fixing. Why do 220lbs men have to fight 270lbs 6’9 Gypsy Kings Lol
once a guy gets over like 260 or so, they tend to be very slow and vulnerable to those around the 220 lb range who still have tremendous athleticism and power. From what we have seen so far, its like around 90% of the HW's over 260lbs are terribly ponderous and use too much fuel just to move around to have the stamina against an elite HW. Fury is obviously a huge exception to the laws of physics though lol. But athletes below 200 lbs all tend to have tremendous speed, agility, and athleticism, giving a 160 lbs fighter all the advantages over a 130 lb fighter that just isnt the same when men get to be around 270 lbs for the most part.
October 4th: go watch Wlad vs Haye if you think that’s the rule. A well coordinated big man can always find a way to neutralise speed. And Your talking like that’s all you need to get one over on bigger men and that there unskilled and un-athletic themselves while blatantly overlooking the advantages a much bigger man has in reach, power and strength. And who are the 200-220 pounders competing today that’s gonna pulling this off?
Besides the Average Heavyweight today isn’t over 260lbs. The majority are from 6’4-6’8 and 230-270lbs. All for the most part incredibly large and athletic men
@@Rockstar-bq5fm For starters, you can't use rare exceptions to prove a general rules false. Thats why they are called exceptions. Of course Wlad is a very rare example in many ways but even he is not really a great example as he had stamina problems that Steward corrected by slowing his work rate down to help him get around it.
I of course understand there are more athletic large men today than there were in the past, but the smaller men are not capped... they too are getting stronger and faster for their size.
And no I did not act like speed is all one needs to overcome size. I mentioned several factors. I simply said that general physics keep 99% of giant men from being able to compete with elite HW's. Its what keeps the division balanced. The size of HW's will go down again when the Holyfields, Tysons, and Ali's begin to exploit their advantages over the larger men.
With all other factors being equal, yes the bigger man tends to win. But when the smaller man is faster, more agile, more explosive, with much better stamina, the bigger men suddenly have only one advantage and more disadvantages.
October 4th: I think that’s a load of shit honestly fella
we already hav a super heavyweight division. its called "heavyweight." our 220-lb heavyweights fight at 200.
Tyson holyfield Lennox michael moorer. Roy Jones Jr etc etc
This video was so inspiring it almost made me cry
Heavyweight devision has the biggest mis matches because there's no weight limit
Fighters will go where the money is and the money is HW. It will just mean fighters having restrictions and losing or gaining weight for the money division. Super HW will just mean more ostracism and fighters fighting at unnatural weights.
And even more weight bullies. If middleweights can cut and rehydrate 20 lbs, it wont be any different with the big boys.
I guess you could just redraw the lines -- make heavyweight start at, what, 240?
But then you'd end up with 235 vs 175 at cruiser
David Haye beat him at 215 and was coming from cruiserweight 200lbs
Heavyweight champ should be 200 to 250 pounds, that's it. Anything above that should be super heavyweight. If you want better heavyweight fights you need fighters that can move better. 215lb and 220 lb fighters move better, in most cases, than 260lb and 265lb fighters.
Yes it should be a Super heavyweight division back in the days they called Foreman in his prime 6"3 220 Big George Foreman. Now he's lil Foreman fighting against 6"7 250 giants.
I disagree, Teddy. There's too much of a weight and height gap within the heavyweight division. It's just too much, man! And you don't need to have THAT big of a difference to enjoy the conflict between the stronger fighter vs. the most technical boxer. You CAN have that (you have that in every division, actually) and still enjoy the great "lighter" heavyweights (like most heavyweights of the past, which were awesome) fighting among themselves and not against HUGE guys that are much more boring to watch, but almost impossible to beat. Adding another weight-class is NOT changing the rules of boxing!
I disagree. Those weight division are from the 19th Century. 190 pounds is almost the average for men this Day. We need a super heavyweight for the 250 lbs and note.
190 is only average cause most the country is overweight 😂
@@JeffPenaify Indeed. Most people are overweight. However, look at the athlete in the NFL. The average weight of a offensive lineman was 230 pounds in the 50's. Then 250 un the 70's 270 in the 80's. Now its more than 300. Also they are taller.
It will probably never happen because of greed, but I wish there could again be eight weight divisions, one world champion for the one world we have, for the boxing fan to again be able to name the world champ for each division without pulling out a smartphone.
Well, most sports watchers are fans but not fanatics. There is more going on in their lives than to know all that or even want to. So, the HW has traditionally, I think, been a kind of THE representation of the sport. So people get pretty keyed up about that division because 1. they know it's important even if they don't totally understand why, maybe they just saw the champ or contender on a talk show an v that's how they come by and 2. it's MUCH simpler and cheaper to market just one or two "names" than 50. I've talked to people who got into the sport watching the heavyweights and then started watching other fights and came to appreciate the smaller guys a bit more than the heavyweights. If you really, really like boxing, your attitude will be different than someone who has only heard of the sport. I think that's why guys like Teddy or fighters are going to have different opinions even from boxing fanatics. How close you are too the action defines your interest. Oddly, casual fans can be the bread and butter of about any sport, full time attention not required. Anyway, my bias is towards a hw division of people 6'5" and under. And yeah i know! Totally unrealistic of me.
😂
@@PhoenixProdLLC this was discussed on one of the channels a few months ago. Where do you put Jellyroll? Hes under 6'5 but over 300lbs.
Is that Ken Rideout's son?
Yes. Obviously. 😐
Max would smoke teddy in this debate if it was live
In the heavyweight division once you reach 97 kilos you have that KO power. End of story. If you wanna come in 240 lbs that's fine but remember most of the 240lbs heavyweights lack speed, they are all hell stiff and rely on heavy hands and little actual technical skill. Mike Tyson, Deontay Wilder and even David Tua all weighed around 97 kilos. They all have high KO rates against taller and bigger opponents. Why? Cos they have the perfect balance of speed and power. If Tyson came in 240 he would be a bit slower and lose that power. Tyson at 220 was the perfect weight for knocking out any heavyweight or hurting them enough. My opinion is once you reach 97 kilos there can be a 50lbs difference.
Ridicules. As tyson fury once asked - what do you mean I am not the best pound for pound? Can they climb on each other's shoulders and fight me?
disagree, it's like saying "I know a tall chinese guy", if your reaching to 1930, there's a problem
...b b but Yao Ming isnt that old surely?
Superb summation Teddy - agree 1000% . Overcoming .... a lost idea these days . The junior / super divisions were put in for economic reasons .... more titles , more champs . Brilliant Teddy - keep it up 😎👊
when you are a legit (barefoot) 6ft 2in - 6ft 3in or taller, you can beat anyone, even a 7ft monster. The problem is the size they declare most of the time is fake. For ex. andy ruiz is not 6ft 2in! he is in the 5ft 11in range. Holyfield was not 6ft 2,5in, he was max 6ft 1in. Mike tyson was 5ft 9,5in barefoot. Lennox lewis was a full 6ft 3in or 6ft 4in and he could beat anyone. Interviewed about his size, lewis said: i am 6ft 3in-6ft 4in. Riddick bowe was similar to lewis. Lewis and bowe were tall and big but under 6ft 5in or not over 6ft 5in.
I think it was David Haye beat that 7 ft guy
Sam Langford the Goat Him And Harry Greb 1 And 2
Instead of super-heavyweight, create a super-cruiserweight class. That way no prestige is taken away from heavyweight, and guys who aren't quite big enough for heavyweight will have a fair class to compete in. Cruiserweight can be 195, and Super-Cruiser can be 215.
@David Gold If you weigh 225 pounds, it's a lot to ask for you to fight a guy like Tyson Fury or Anthony Joshua, who came in "skinny" for the Ruiz rematch at 240. They also can't get down to 200, so they're stuck.
@David Gold I agree that we need less divisions, that's why we should get rid of 105, 108, 112, 115. Seriously, in this day and age, how many grown men do you know that weigh less than 120 pounds? Even among Mexicans and Asians it's rare to find men that small. But Men between 195-225? That's a large percentage of the population now.
the heavyweight division would be ruined if they add superheavy guys like usyk deserve a chance to fight the big guys like fury and joshua
Handfloboxingreview all that would happen is smaller guys would have to put on even more weight to get money fights making them slower and giving the big guys even more advantages. Stupid idea imo
@@EliasVergsen nope its called using speed and skills
@@handfloboxingreview1673 how, if they get separated? As they are Usyk might beat Joshua, but not if you add a class that splits them, and if Usyk beats him anyway in a catchweight without adding on any weight then what would have been the use of the extra weight class then?
Exactly obviously to ho help wilder I guess pmsl NO SUPER HEAVY WEIGHT it’s fine now
Someone with balls finally said it! "If you change the rules of football its not football anymore."
Height, just as much as weight matters.. when teo boxers are far apart in height,, it doesnt matter good a short bixer is. The tall bixer will beat a short boxer if theyre both good. Height adds reach and makes for a boeing fight, tall pumps the jab all night long and resta behind it. Why is he ripping on him. Hes got. Point. Listen it shouldn't be based weight, but also based on Height. Foreman was considered huge at 6' 2 225. You got fury and wilder nearing 6'10 and Fury weighing over 270lbs. Wilder ate his words and found out what 270lb big man do. UNLIMITED AMOUT OF DAMAGE. SUPER HEAVY WE8GHT SHOULD BE OVER 6'3 AND OVER 240.
It doesn't matter how good a short boxer is?
Are you aware of who Mike Tyson, or Joe Frazier, or Manny Pacquiao are?
All boxers who were almost always shorter than their opponents.
Above 6′7″ and 250lbs has become the norm for HW-champions and top 10 fighters. IMO this is reason enough for a super heavyweight class. But if a good lighter shorter fighter wants to fight in that class than give him that opportunity.
disagreed with you until a few minutes in
Teddy talks pretty but he’s not as thorough as people think
None of this shit would come up from kellernan if fury didn't destroy wilder fact
You are contradicting yourself...then why have weight classes?? 🙄
Disagree Mike Tyson Evander Holyfield and Deontay Wilder are all relatively notmal weight HWs and they all have been successful
Its really simple there are not enough super heavy weight fighters around. Most HWs are not 7 foot and 270 pounds. Look how steve cunningham gave Fury his hardest fight.
@Ben Lowe There are not enough good Super heavy weights to justify a division. After two years they would of fought each other and you would be left watching useless lumps getting knocked out. In my opinion keep the division open it allows some smaller fighters who have talent to get involved. There are some decent light HWs out there it will be interesting to see how Usyk gets on. I believe if he sticks to good tactics he can beat a lot of the supers. Obviously a fighter like Fury is very big and also.skillful so will be hard to beat but no need to make a new division. If Fury keeps fighting he will slip up and lose as at some point he will go into a fight not mentally.ready. Its happened.to all the Hws if they fight 40 plus fights. I think if people want smaller fighters then make them fight 15 rounds again. Honestly a lot of these big guys can be out pointed if a.skillful.smaller guy sticks and moves. Yes the trend is for getting bigger and bigger but really that doesnt make you unbeatable a.lot of these fighters are really not that great. Ruiz is only 6 foot out of shape and managed to upset AJ. Also Wilder has been successful at 205 pounds. David Haye was reasonably successful. The main issue is they only fight twice a year so these guys unfortunately never get to.build the resume of the olden days fighters. Really for boxing to be interesting again they should.really be fighting 4 times.a year. Are.you really the baddest man on the planet if you can only have a fight once or twice a year
In my opinion your not. Having them fight more regularly will discourage massive PED using beasts as their bodies will not recover.
Also Ali boxed around the same weight as Wilder. When you look at Ali.s.fitness combinations Chin and determination to win I think he would have beat these guys. Some people constantly throw this argument out there that todays boxers are faster and stronger etc than before. I really dont believe it. Actually watch footage of ray leonard or hearns or ray robinson would they really of lacked power and speed and skill compared to todays middle weights I dont believe it. All the science and studies of daily calorie intake and levels of obesity shows us that in the 1920s (the old days) the general.population had much lower levels of obesity and still ate more calories than we do today this points to a big difference in general fitness despite gyms etc in the modern world. Combine a fotter and tougher population with their being ten times bigger pool.of boxing talent and you have the reason why boxing is not interesting. You cant have a sport where the athlete you follow competes twice a year. Imagine Federer playing two tennis matches a year??. I know boxers need rest etc but 4.should be minimum.foghts for an uninjured boxer.
@Ben Lowe doesnt the fact a weak fighter like valuev won a world title point to a sparsity of talent already in the division without us splitting it again. Also Valuev lost to David Haye who essentially was.a.crusier weight eho stepped up
Let’s go back to 8 weights Teddy!
Everybody agrees weight classes make a difference unless, apparently, you start talking about heavyweights, and then the blinders come on. I get it, everyone has this romantic notion of heavyweight boxing, but weight classes matter; that's just reality.
I'm no fan of how many different weight classes there are these days, and would probably do away with the junior and super classes if I had my druthers, because the differences there are manageable, but in the heavyweight divison we've got 270 pound guys coming into fights with guys weighing 220 -- 50lbs apart, or more. Proportionally speaking, that's roughly equal to a middleweight facing a lightweight. We recognize that as an affront to fair competition, so why not this?
once a guy gets over like 250 or 260 or so, they tend to be very slow and vulnerable to those around the 220 lb range who still have tremendous athleticism and power. From what we have seen so far, its like around 90% of the HW's over 260lbs are terribly ponderous and use too much fuel just to move around to have the stamina against an elite HW. Fury is obviously a huge exception to the laws of physics though lol. But athletes below 200 lbs all tend to have tremendous speed, agility, and athleticism, giving a 160 lbs fighter all the advantages over a 130 lb fighter that just isnt the same when men get to be around 270 lbs for the most part.
@@october4th475 > they tend to be
> from what I heard
The best heavyweight boxer in the world right now is 270+ and 6'9. Frankly, outside of the first Wilder fight, he really hasn't had much trouble and that's against some of the biggest and most athletic men on the planet. But let's go back 20 years, Lennox Lewis at the end of the 90s and early 00s was absolutely massive in comparison to his opponents and I still think his 245 weight was on the low side. Then you had the Klitschko bros that came in and also dominated (Wladimir was more of a mid-late bloomer) until more heavyweights came in to catch up to their size.