Type 97: Kijiro Nambu Adapts the ZB-30 for Japanese Tanks
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
- / forgottenweapons
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Introduced in 1937, the Type 97 was basically a copy of the ZB 26/30 pattern light machine gun adapted to use in Japanese tanks and armored cars. The adaptations included mounting an optical sight to the left side fo the action, moving the iron sights to the right, and moving the recoil spring to wrap around the gas piston so that a folding stock could be used. About 15,000-17,000 of these guns were made in 7.7x58mm (rimless), and used to equip all of the tanks and armored cars in Japanese service from 1937 until the end of World War Two.
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Demountable, modular sights, multi position bipod, folding and adjustable stock. All pretty modern apart from the magazine location.
Not surprised; the ZB machine guns were excellent, and well ahead of their time.
but top loading makes a lot of sense for a vehicle weapon, more than a bottom loading gun depending on how its mounted
Toploaded magazines for magazine fed Lmg's are modern though. it literally became a thing because having a mag hang out the bottom sucks for magazine fed light machineguns
I love 💘 the cooling fins on this thing, so bada$$
This type better on top
Nambu wasn't happy with what they had as vehicle MGs, so he decided to Czech out some alternatives.
Groan.
Waiter, Czech please!
Don't tell us: you're here all week & available for weddings, birthdays & Bar mitzvahs. 😜
What is the result of an abortion in Prague? : A cancelled Czech.
A little sidefact: Japan used to put armored shrouds over the part of the barrel that extends beyond the ballmount outside of the tank to prevent the cooling fins from taking damage.
Which is why they sometimes look flamethrower-ish when you see them mounted on the few imperial japanese Tanks that existed.
I wonder if they ever thought about adding cooling fins to the cooling fins' armoured shrouds, and then an armoured shroud to go over the cooling fins' armoured shroud's cooling fins.
@@AshleyPomeroy I don't think this 'side fact' is remotely factual.
@@TheJazsa80 It’s real
I'm surprised Ian didn't mention the barrel shroud (which is missing from the example in the video). It's a visually distinctive part of the Type 97 when it's actually mounted on a vehicle.
Despite everyone else simply discarding cooling fins, and just going for a heavy profile barrel.
Next episode, Ian buys a tankette to try out his new gun.
Nah, just put it on a Jeep gun mount.
Then he'd have to get ammo. Seems to me some of the IJ ammo is very tough to impossible to get.
@@robertthomas5906 yes but a tankette is way cooler than a jeep gun mount
@@jannerantanen5121 And the only thing even cooler would be a Kettenkrad. :P
I'm still waiting for Karl to add a gun mount to his VW Kubelwagen/thing
There is a video of this gun where they cut out the machine gun port from a wreck of a Type 97 Chi-Ha from an island to install this gun lol
Czechnology shining bright even in Japan !!!
Everybody needs that sweet sweet Czechnology.
That 360degree folding bipod is very very cool. Had to rewatch that several times.
360 degrees, to shoot the enemy, and cowards alike
milatery oragami
Yeah the design of that bi pod is next level
Your apolitical commentary style is so refreshing in the current online environment, Ian. Please don't ever change!
Great explanation on how they constructed the 7.7x58.
"I'm here today at Morphy's with a very cool machine gun."
Looks like you are with more than one very cool machine guns.
So this optic is the reason for Brandon's latest ATF vs Fleshlights video ? This is where it all started...Almost 100 years worth of fleshlighting...
Seems japan always was way ahead of the curve when it came to weird NSFW stuff.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who instantly went there when I saw that padded "eyepiece"
@@justindunlap1235 Is that the Jenna Jameson model eye piece?
@@OGJonnyKamikaze I don't know it's a bit small plus it looks too pristine
But the muzzle isn't pixellated?
That's a huge Fleshlight on the table!
I need one like that.
🤣🤣 I was too sleep deprived to think of the word for what I thought that looked like, but there it is.
Brandon Herrara/Forgotten Weapons crossover.
Lmao I was thinking the same thing🤣😂
I think this guns nickname is the "woodpecker" too lol
Tank guns might also be harder to bring back cause they tend to get exploded with the tank.
Made my day lmao
It’s also hard to duffle cut a tank gun.
Tanks usually burned out back then, which destroyed the guns. To damage a gun by explosion, it had to be very very powerful. Guns take explosions way better than, say, humans.
Oh so this automatic machine gun was mounted on the tanks back in ww2?
"Hence 'Type 97' equates to 1937."
*starts counting on fingers looking confused*
I am also still confused.
The calendar the Japanese used (Kōki) didn't line up with the Gregorian/Julian calendar we use. 1940 was their year 2600, so 1937 would have been 2597.
I think it's because they were counting from the start of the current era ie the Meiji Restriction.
@@KyriosMirage Thank you.
@@Grimmtoof It semi-standardized after the Meiji Restoration, but the year count doesn't start from there.
I would expect an emergency bayonet mount to be stowed with the bipod for field use
They bipod is pointy on the bottom
Just fold it up facing forward and you're ready for double bayonet charges
im sure the scope can double as a bludgeon if need be
@@dndboy13 it can double as a kinky sex toy as well. Just look at the damn thing
About the Hotchkiss royalties (and according to a japanese book), Nambu did redesign most of the internals when creating the Type 3 HMG. This means Japan pretty much stopped paying Hotchkiss royalties from 1914 onwards.
Edit: Yeah, they did the same with the Type 97: Nambu redesigned the weapon so Japan didn't have to pay anything.
That is one sweet MG!! And the bipod is top-shelf! Clever engineering/adaptations. Cheers!
"They took this rimless ammo and stick it to a heavy machine gun, and huh..."
I believe they actually said. NANI!!!???
Somehow, it's easy to see these being transferred to nearby infantry units...sometime after midnight...
One of my favorite machine guns when the Type 97 has its barrel sleeve installed, it looks really cool.
8:58 Huh! I didn't know that the marking for "fire" in the safety is literally the kanji for "fire", as in burning, flamey kind.
It is not so surprising if you think about the ethymology of "firing" a gun. It started with holding a flame close to your gunpowder until it caught fire and exploded in most cultures, so it would seem logical for fire(like flame) and fire(like gun) to be the same in many languages
I bet if English had a system like kanji it would also be use the symbol for fire, since I'm pretty sure that's the etymological root for its use. A "firearm" is a weapon that uses fire.
Sure, the etymology is there, but I still would have guessed that by that point it would have shifted to being derived from the word "shoot". While the word "fire" in English can refer to many things (literal fire, shooting a gun, losing a job, etc.), the kanji 火 isn't quite as ambiguous (to my knowledge, not an expert), and isn't usually (again, to my knowledge...) a part of words related to the meaning of "firing a weapon". I see 射 and 撃 much more there.
@@KingdomOfDimensions Mmm... Might be, might not be? Kanji is interesting to me in that while the pronunciation is often the same for many different concepts, the kanji themselves are often much more specific. So they might just as well have originally used the "kanji" for literal fire to refer to shooting a weapon, but later come up with another one that is still pronounced the same, but drawn differently, to refer to the act of firing a weapon.
@@thijsvandervoort8261 True in Finnish: "tulta" literally translates to "fire".
Love the thick milled chunky, if somewhat crudely finished, steel on this. Bolt carrier looks beefy, really all of this gun looks solid. I always thought of Japanese MGs as sort of cheap and poorly designed. But this looks to be very well thought out, from the stock to the bipod, the heavy profile barrel, to the useable irons... very interesting weapon from a country habitually short of resources.
Damn that thing is freakin sweet!!
Ian, the Gun Jesus: "So, what do we need to do to make the ZB effectively into a good japaniese tank gun?"
Me, a meming shitter: "A bayonet."
I wish you was funny
@@fritzdaddy-135mmgetstagger4 I wish you were funny too
@@adulescentuluscarnifex8412 best part is i wasnt trying to be funny
Drive me closer!
Tripped over and walked around one of these many times. Guy I worked for brought one of these back, was decommissioned, firing pin was in desk drawer, didn't matter, where could you get enough ammo anyway.
Thanks for the video, I watch them all.
"Thank you for watching"?
No, Ian. Thank YOU for doing what you do
I used one of these while fighting as a British soldier against the Japanese on the highest peak in Norway
BFV?
Did you have it decked out in gold or palm tree leaves?
@@EastCoastMan603 Is this bait?
Wasn't same but was a type 97. Was on a tripod mount and didn't have stock. Hey, when I was young guys old guys were ww2 vets, I am that age now. When I was young kid I remember the older people talking about ww1 vets. Yes, I probably knew a few. I am feeling old now. Probably ought to go to bed and get my beauty nap. I am a night shifter, it's ok.
@@EastCoastMan603 have at the, you scallywag. True gentleman use the old bomb on a stick.
I really shouldn't look at Morphy's next list of auction weapons beacuse its a spoiler for Ian's videos lol
I feel like this thing is going to be going for a small fortune, it's in immaculate condition and it's complete
@@cheyannei5983 The estimate is $12,000 - $18,000
There are some amazingly well thought out and intricate details on this gun. Simply brilliant.
It feels like, aside from the katana and the Zero, Japanese arms and armer is something I almost never hear about.
probably because of all the beligerants of ww2, japan ended the war with the least amount of surviving weaponry, and what little did, we dumped into the ocean, so only the odd survivor or trophy exists today
@@AsbestosMuffins also due to the language being much harder to translate and the japanese being fairly thorough at destroying their records and technical data to prevent capture.
I think this only applies to pop history. You wouldn't neccisarily think this watching any of the more serious UA-camrs. Ian seems to have covered pretty much all the Japanese WW2 small firearms and I believe he owns a Type 97.
@@Stardude78 Ian's father collected Japanese arms so he is pretty familiar with them.
There are a number of reasons for that.
Destruction of Japanese records plus the language issues made research into them and Japanese military in general not particularly common compared to European countries. Getting access to and translating European records is just easier for most researchers.
There was little commercial trade in Japanese firearms etc. So them and their ammunition were never very common in the West. For example, someone who brought back a Mauser could easily get ammo to blast away because every store had 8mm Mauser ammo while an Arisaka didn't have a great ammo supply and it probably got relegated to the basement/attic.
And yes, a lot was historically written off or ignored due to racism. Both before and after the war.
Before you explained the "scope" I thought it was just something peculiarly of Japanese taste of certain activities.. You know.. Kampai time and sort.. :D
This gun looked so odd from the cover photo I had to watch😊
haha, same. I was about to close youtube when I saw it, and then I realised I needed to spend another 17 minutes and 53 seconds on here...
I suspect asbestos gloves were needed for barrel changes.
LOL
@@benjamindavidovichwaals2899 - Plenty of militaries supplied their machinegun teams with asbestos gloves/mittens. The MG42 in WW2 and the M60 on Vietnam spring to mind.
@@BatCaveOz wow, i did't know that. thanks for info
Back than, they didn't know asbestos was bad, till people started dying
Show me the bayonet lug, or admit that this isn't a Japanese gun.
Silly you. The Japanese obviously put the bayonet on the main tank cannon, not the MG.
@@smygskytt1712 Yes, then they can do a bayonet charge with tanks.
The gas plug is somewhat inconveniently located. However with vehicle mounted MGs normally you are going to have 2 or 3 barrels total. So what happens is you have one barrel set to use when the gun is clean, there isn't any carbon in the gas system and a smaller gas port is needed. Then as the gun becomes fouled and the gas system fills with carbon the second barrel with the gas regulator set to a larger opening is swapped for the first one. So you'd not be messing about much with the gas regulator setting in actual use.
@@justforever96 Just keep in mind that the daily use pain in the ass factor is an important consideration for troops.
... Was there ever a gun made that Ian doesn't know the entire in's & out's of?.... Wow. Great stuff!
Thank you , Ian .
I've been waiting for this since I started using this in BFV. 2nd favorite LMG, after the Type 11.
16:47 "royalties" is a dirty word but Ian just overruled the censorship
Japanese MGs are always fascinating. Great video.
Beautiful! What a bunch of interesting solutions in a gun. Thanks
Cool history and showing! Thank you Ian
Nambu and his designs are chronically under appreciated in the west. That guy was such a talent.
@@prfwrx2497 they can't all be Browning, that's for sure.
This gun should be used in a Star Wars show. It really fits the aesthetic.
I only understood like 5 words of that title but I’m here to listen!
Hey Ian, long time production sound mixer here. You need to lower the input sensitivity on your wireless pack. Assuming it's a sennheiser with the included ME-2 mic, it should be set to either -36, -39, or -42 dB. Been mixing for years and that's always the sweet-spot for loud, clear speakers such as yourself. If it's too low you can always boost it in post. If it's too loud and clipping (as it is here) it is much harder to clean up and still retains the distortion even when you lower the levels.
I like the bipod attachment method and the option of placement. Seems like one of those compromise things that makes or breaks a gun, but here it's personal choice or situational need.
Wow last time I was this early Ian still used the Universal Disassembly Tool
The good old days
I love this gun now it's so neat
what a lovely fluted barrel it has
If it's in/on a vehicle, the downward stock gives you secondary hand hold for a little more control.
This has taught me one thing, always make sure every bit is there when buying
I'm not even into weapons. But Ian pulls off this Bob Ross thing with firearms. I don't understand it. But I keep coming back.
I don't know about the Japanese service, but it was extremely common worldwide to strip the coaxial machinegun off your tank for infantry or fortification use at earliest convenience. HE rounds are a thing and if you're pointing the machinegun at something, you're pointing the gun at something, so...
It wasn't uncommon for M4 shermans to ship out with 2 or 3 machineguns and end up in the field with only one; or to ship out with one to be equipped to it's full 4 gun configuration only to end up with no machineguns at all.
Excellent video 📹
The ingenuity of this gun reminds me of a new Honda Jazz'.
It configures in many ways, yet it will work.
13:24 "Without this, gun don' work."
The video starts and I wonder why Ian has a fleshlight on the table. I then realize it's a scope.
Good to be lucky to get to Ian’s video this early...but the early bird catches the gun worm 😉
There’s just something extensive heat fins 😍
I have no firsthand experience of them, but I feel like you are going to spend hours cleaning mud out of those crevices.
@@tamlandipper29 absolutely you will! Reminds me of trying to polish the engine block of my old Honda nighthawk... pretty heat fins=pain in the ass cleaning
It's very star wars-esque, for lack of a better analogy
it looks so good 🥺😳
The Japanese guns steel reminds me of something a medieval blacksmith forged with an anvil and hammer.
Very cool history. Thank you.
This guy is the Doug DeMiro of guns.
their aircraft also used hamilton standard proppellor constant speed revices; which they had also liscenced.
Ambitious looking flesh-light in front of the box....
Oh, and the bipod also doubles as a pair of tongs for prisoner interrogation.
Excellent video
Another great video Ian!-John in Texas
Morphy Auctions to Gun Jesus: sorry Ian, it's only for right handed.
Gun Jesus to Morphy Auctions: Shut up and take my money!!!
I can just imagine an instructor picking a specific cooling fin that the bipod MUST be mounted on or else... Punishment. Army life is pretty universal.
Cooling fins doubling as a 1930's picatinnyrail is pretty cool :D
Toyo kogyo? That's mazda. I didn't realize they were in munitions. Cool.
I got a type14 nambu!! Got the paperwork when i was brought back during ww2 as well. Sadly my grandfather didnt like guns never oiled it. Threw it in a closet for 60yrs. Frame is pitted but barrel is mint.
I really like the idea of mountable and detachable guns in vehicles. It makes the mobile units much more adaptable.
"You can use zb26 magazines with the type 97 which is good because type 97 magazines are extremely rare" oh good I needed some magazines for all my type 97s thanks.
I love the look of it. Spectacular
>looks at the thing on the table< ---- "this is a japanese..." Ah, there it is
Hey Ian, how about doing a video on the Besa British tank machine gun. There isn’t a lot out there on it and the history around how it ended up as a tank gun is quite interesting.
Please, what he said!
That optic looks like a *fleshlight* with an extra-deep 'tube'...
i love this gun because it looks like a 60s-70s sci-fi laser gun
They don't pay royalities because after a year Czechosloviaka had more important problems that going after Japanees about patent.
Interesting! Thank you.
God bless all here.
It's the opposite of a Bren: a machine gun with southpaw sights! Maybe I'm just a spaz, but I don't recall Ian mentioning why that was (the ZB sights are on the left side of the gun). Mayhap they intended to primarily use the optical sight/bludgeon and just stuck the irons somewhere out of the way...
That bipod is great
The telescopic sight looks like the forbidden banzai fleshlight
The fleshlight scope.
Brandon Herera gang I see....😎
I always thought this thing looked a little dorky with its giant, padded scope and funky stock, but it's actually a really neat gun. The way the bipod attaches is super cool.
Oh Gun Jesus! You gave us the Bergmann Marathon, we humbly ask you to bless us poor wretched souls with a ZB26 and Variants Marathon!
Top loading, magazine fed LMG? Yes please!
this is why i am convinced they actually had made gundams.
they've actually made one
My guess for the 90 degree position on the stock is to be able to use it like a spade grip. Left hand on the trigger grip, right hand on the butt or the tube that holds the stock. Could also be for when its in the vehicle and stowed, if it slips out of the forward position and flops down it will stop at 90 degrees instead of flopping around while you're trying to shoot it.
Me looking at the thumbnail: What is this weird looking gun im going to watch an in dept video about.
I was playing War Thunder the other day and thought these looked like star wars blasters, no glued-on gubbins required
Who makes the repro scope mounts> I have never seen one. What is rarer than a scope mount is the wireframe that attaches to the trigger that holds a canvas and leather bag with a zipper on the bottom to catch the brass so you don't have a tank full of the spent casing to walk on. I have one but sadly the bag rotted away when the tank it was in was full of water and the acid from the batteries.
A gorgeous piece of engineering.
Type 97 mags don't want in this thing, they don't get in this thing. I cut them out of everything. I don't need them. ZB26 mags I can get almost anywhere. - Sgt. Oddball, probably
Ever get the idea that the Czech engineers were the cool kids during the 1930s?
we should bring back the cooling fin mounting system... its waay cooler than picatinny rails
From the side that scope looks like a really vintage fleshlight
The stock is adjustable like that for fixed fire
This thing looks just so cool!
I can't get enough of how hardcore steampunk Imperial Japan was without knowing it. They've got these big beautiful machines, large slabs of steel with lots of protruding bits and rivets, and somehow despite their scattered and varied inspiration all their equipment has this distinct aesthetic.
Why did the Japanese go from the 6.5mm cartridge to the 7.7mm cartridge only in the 1930s? They had already encountered the 7.62x54R in the 1905 Russo-Japanese War and the 7.62x54R is far superior in performane compared to the 6.5mm Japanese cartridge.
@@kirkstinson7316 My mistake. I meant to write: Why did the Japanese go from the 6.5mm cartridge to the 7.7mm cartridge only in the 1930s? Why not earlier?
I suspect because the aircraft and armored vehicle threat wasn't significant until the early 30s.
@@ForgottenWeapons It's just interesting that the the Japanese were not concerned about 6.5mm being underpowerd comapared to the 7.62x54mmR, but were worried about the 7.92mm used by the Chinese. I guess since the Japanese overwhelmingly won the Russo-Japanese War, it made the Japanese more confident with sticking with the 6.5mm although it was relatively outclassed by cartridges used by other militaries.
Interesting enough, the Italians had a pretty similar 6,5mm ammo and in the same period started tinkering around the new 7,35mm.
The 6,5mm was accepted as adequate until that.
@@ulissedazante5748 The Italian approach was even a bit more bizzare because they adopted two separate cartridges to replace the 6.5mm - the 7.35 for rifles and LMGs and 8x59mm for medium machine guns instead of adopting one cartridge that would be suitable for bothe the rifles and medium machine guns. One could argue that the Italians were even ahead of their time with the 7.35mm cartridge as it resembled later intermediate cartridges but the Italians did not have a rifle to use the full potential of the 7.35mm cartridge.