Been in many churches, but have visited one famous Basilica and three famous Cathedrals: Saint Peters in Rome, Saint Patricks, Saint John The Divine in New York and the Cathedral of Madrid Spain. All have their own distinctive beauty and Architectural features that make them famous.
All this discussion of light Catholic, etc., regardless - it was nice to see a Roman Catholic cardinal (retired NYC Archbishop, Cardinal Egan) in both the entrance procession and the recessional. I would so love to go there some day.
I just visited this cathedral and my is this one of the most depressing and heartbreaking things you'll ever see.. It's almost completely empty and barren. They had maybe only 100 small chairs right at the base of the sanctuary; rest of the space nothing The state trumpets aren't even up anymore which is what I was really hoping to see. $15 just to walk in to the saddest church of all with no one around to tell you anything about the place. The anglican side chapel was really cool though. The roof leaks made the interior look like a genuine 500+ year old chapel with water stains running down the walls and that old smell to it; felt you just walked back in time.
Playing in this place is so frickin' awesome! And you actually don't hear the state trumpet from the console much at all...actually, you don't hear it at all over full organ...yet it's such a loud stop. That building is just amazing.
Outstanding. I could do without the liturgical dancers and streamers, but otherwise, just stunning. I don't think I've ever seen a bishop be first in a procession. That was a new one.
when I got married 23 years ago in a high Episcopal Mass, with smells and bells, my Catholic inlaw family said they had not seen that high a service since Vatican II
One of the great Cathedrals in New York City and the World, Saint John the Divine exhibits it's famous Gothic Architecture with an incredibly powerful Trumpet Organ. Magnificent.
From the Verger and Thurifer to the dancers, the acolytes, the silks and spinny things to the end of the procession.... WOW! It may be "church" but it was a stupendous presentation. I loved it. The restored organ, the size of the cathedral and the many members of the procession made this mini-movie quite memorable. Thank you so much for catching it on your camera.
Thank you, CommenTarry, your comment is appreciated and the liturgy reflects the antiquity of ceremony with liturgical kites and dancers and thurifers. Yet, the Episcopal Church is current with women clergy.
i love how worship can be such an artistic, spiritual, physical and emotional act. People coming together, singing, praying, and involved is what it's all about! :)
You have no idea. I live in Washington, am Episcopalian and go to our cathedral from time to time. SJTD is much much larger. And our cathedral is 6th in size in the world. The stained glass windows in St. John are incredible, but you're right- the organ takes the cake. I swear if I had a toupee and was near the front, it would fly off my head at the blast of the trumpet pipes. There is no way to describe the sound. By all means, go. It's a real pilgrimage.
What a beautiful organ and service- so diverse and inclusive. It will never cease to amaze me how Christians seem to love to tear each other apart rather the bind together. Having read the Bible, I cannot find the source teaching they base this on.
Thank you livzdave for posting these videos of this magnificent restored Aeolian Skinner Organ. It is truly awesome!! I can only hope to one day visit this beautiful cathedral. Also extend thanks to the FDNY heroes and all their fellow comrades for what they have endured not only through 9/11 but every day of their lives! Bravo to you from Canada! Best Regards, Roy
@codeman2008 There was a time saying or writing "The Anglican Church is the English Catholic church" would have been fighting words. Only in recent years, the Episcopal Church in the U.S. drop "Protestant" from its name. As an life-long Anglican, not once did I ever hear the English Anglican church refer to as the 'English Catholic Church'. While the Anglican and Lutheran denominations share a common lineage with the Roman Catholic faith, they are not Catholic in the Roman sense of the word.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! This awesome instrument has always been a favorite! The CD by Paul Haley is AMAZING as is Dorothy Papadakus CD. Pomp and Circumstance at its ABSOLUTE BEST!
I wish this was professionally recorded, although that camcorder did a good job, considering. That organ and cavity are simply stunning. Turn the picture off and just listen to that instrument sing. Wow. Thanks so much for posting it.
My father would have loved to hear AND play that pipe organ. He was trained to play the pipe organ as well as piano. He recently told me there are far fewer colleges or universities that train music majors in pipe organ. Playing one is far different from a regular organ. Maybe that's where the phrase "Pulling out all the stops" came from.
Best organ in the USA. If only they didn't use those ridiculous liturgical dancers! They make a laughingstock of the liturgy by taking the meaning of liturgical dance totally out of context.
Certainly one of the best. And you are right, the dancers can kindly excuse themselves. They just don't fit. The National Cathedral has been doing that sort of thing lately too, and it's just not befitting of the nature of either of these great cathedrals.
@hildawhitby There was a huge fire in the Cathedral in December 2001 or 2002, I forget which... There was a lot of damage to the gift shop, some of the artwork and the organ... This service was the first with the restored organ. They had been using a substitute while the organ was being repaired. The cathedral which had been "half closed" for repairs was open completely for the first time also in this service.
In the ancient Byzantine church, the buildings were circular, and the service was performed as a ballet, with an inner and outer circle of people. The climax of the service was the kiss, between to men representing Christ and St Paul, I think. I was reading a book of Byzantine architecture, which described the early service, to explain the significance of the central dome, which was where the kiss happened.
The first applause was for the NYC Police and Fire Dept. The second was sheer joy. I hope you know the Episcopal Church would welcome you at anytime to explore our denomination.
I have played concerts at St. T's, been to dozens of services there; Trinity, Wall; Smoky Mary's, St. Ignatius (both RC & Episc.), and lived there many years. The ECUSA is about to implode. Many churches, even dioceses have fled in horror at the zoo that they were living in. Good for them. Take the bull by the horn and RUN for your life! The Cathedral has always had a looney-bin feel to it, if you ask me (nobody asked me!). Impressive bldg., if size is your criterion; otherwise, stay at home.
St. Pat's is the Walt Disney version of a cathedral. Two words: Tack. Y. And frankly, I liked St. John the Divine better before the cleaning. Bring on the dinge!
@livzdave During the Recessional a few of the Celebrants stop to greet a member of the Congregation who is seated just in front of the camera, who is that person?
for hildawhitby, They had a huge fire and a restoration of the building which was what this rededication was celebrating. My guess is that much of the art work is still being cleaned or restored. Very costly in time and treasure.
I just had a visit to New York and visited the Cathedral for the first time in a long time. Does anyone know WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PLACE? It's like they stripped it of all artwork that could actually be moved. The large crucifix and Black Madonna in the Narthex - gone. The statue of St. Francis, the wolf, the buffalo - gone. The Holocaust Memorial - gone. The large brass artifact that holds the Book of Remembrance is there - you can't move THAT - but there is no BOOK in it anymore!
You ever seen where the Dean of John the Divine lives? A mansion in a wooded area of Manhattan's Upper West Side is one hell of a perk. And they just laid off workers.
@livzdave No, it is Roman Catholics who refer to us Episcopalians or Anglicans as 'light Catholics' or 'Catholic light'. Actually, the Anglican Church is the bridge church or denomination between the Catholics and Protestants with our 'high' (Catholic), 'low' (Protestant) and 'broad' (combination of the two) parishes and forms of worship.
St.John the Divine suffered a devastating fire in December 2001. It took some years to clean up the damage, and this recording is of the rededication of the cathedral after the fire
I used to be Episcopalian. Thirteen years ago I became Catholic. I would NOT say that the Episcopal Church (or the Anglican Church; they are not the same thing) falls between the Catholic Church and other Protestant denominations. And to emphasize: St. John the Divine is NOT Catholic. The liturgies may look similar but the doctrinal teaching of the ECUSA and the Catholic Church are MILES apart. Catholics have more in common with Baptists than with the Episcopalians.
Oh no !! This is St. John the Divine (SJTD)... I was comparing it to Wash. Cathedral - I hate calling our cathedral "National Cathedral". It's the Cathedral Church of St. Peter and St. Paul. Not sure of the status of the organ here. I'm just glad St. John the Divine has been able to get back on its feet. Now if they can just finish it. The transepts are still to be built as well as the towers.
This may sound like the Met to you, but it's an ancient Chant from the middle ages.....way before the met came into existence. This is a cantor part during an Armenian Eastern orthodox liturgy. FYI-Armenia was the first official Christian nation. Look up: "Mary Magdalene Armenian Church Badarak Mass" on youtube. This is not from a Catholic mass....
If you consider it a zoo, I urge you to visit some other parishes. Yes, some of the major cathedrals (including the National Cathedral) have become a bit lax in what they allow in the context of the mass, but others, I assure you, have not. Visit St. Thomas, 5th Ave, or the Church of the Incarnation in Dallas. They are just a couple of examples, but traditional Anglo-Catholicism is alive and well if you know where to look for it.
The structure of the Church of England remained the same after the split, with the notable exception of the college of cardinals and the Pope. The mass was not immediately modified and when it was, it retained much of its original form. The "high church" Anglican liturgy today is more "Catholic" than the Catholic rite. There is debate over whether or not Anglicans are Protestant. Some individual churches say yes, while others say no. That division also exists within the Episcopal Church itself.
@maraljan A church such as this great cathedral is not a concert hall. Although the unchurched or people from other churches or faith traditions may feel the need to incorporate soloists in such in a liturgy. Anglicans, as a rule, do not.
@59swl No - they are catholic in the small 'c', i.e., universal church aspect. Romans, Eastern churches (both Eastern Catholic and Orthodox), the Anglican communion and Lutherans are ALL small "C" catholic churches.
@codeman2008 That's really true! My church is an Anglo-Catholic church and to be honest, I think our service is much more Roman Catholic than the actual Roman Catholics.
Bah! True Catholicism is not the Novus Ordo, which is what you are comparing your glorified service to instead of the true Mass which is where all of the ornamentation, rubrics, and such things for your glorified protestant supper come from. Convert! Novusordowatch.org
@Geigemann88 That a matter of opinion. It all depends on what you are looking for. I tend to like Riverside and St. John the Divine.oth are wonderful instruments and are the best of their time time. I agree with you that the "liturgical" DANCERS NEED TO JUST go away! MW, Atlanta, GA
I am Baptist and you're right, there are way more similarities in attitude and Biblical approach between Catholics and Baptist than Episcopal and RC. Episcopals are very liberal and will allow just about anything to go on during a service. Catholics (or Baptists) would never allow such "showiness" in a service, like the twirling of those ribbons, the applause, the overdone processional etc. Episcopalians always seemed to me like they were puttin on a 'show', rather than having a service.
@oofahman Amazing how alot of people - including me - felt God's presence in that "dark, gray and dingy" place, especially when the light hit those stained glass windows just right....go figure.... :)
The Episcopal church is part of the anglican communion which is non monarchal despite accepting Canterbury as its head. Our Bishops are appointed by the Queen although she can only act on recommendations from the wider church. Candidates have to agree for their names going forward. This is perhaps the problem child in the communion as its liberal ways have put it under strain with many conservative parts of the church.
@Jacobre156 The Episcopal Church, however, although now in FELLOWSHIP with the Anglican Church, is not under the SUPREME AUTHORITY of the Anglican Church. It had to split from its Anglican Sister when the colonies severed political ties with England (If they hadn't, the priests would still have had to answer to the king, who appoints the Archbishop of Canterbury, and leader of the Anglican Church--and therefore wouldn't have been COMPLETELY independent from the monarchy).
The Anglican church is not apostolic...it was founded by a mere mortal man, Henry the VIII...he broke from union with Rome because Rome would not allow him to get an annulment, so he got ticked off at the Pope at that time and started his own church. When someone 'founds' their own Church, it is NOT Apostolic (a direct descendant of the Apostles) but a man-made organization. Only the RC Church can trace it's founding back to Christ. Study the history and writings of the early church fathers.
Excuse me my dear, I must correct your ignorance The idea of a "Cantor" is not only common in the catholic Church, but it exists also in Judaism-hello! Look it up sweetheart....hazzanim Cantors are also present in Ancient Eastern orthodox liturgies....you might want to look that one up too :) As you can see this was in existance WAY BEFORE the met was even concieved....:)
Mefactor, since you've been here twice, we Episcopalians hold some fascination for you. An inability to question, challenge & reconsider anything, including theology indicates a shallow faith, not a strong one. Christian scripture asserts a support of slavery, does that mean it must be codified then? No. We understand scripture to be a living document, & that it must be read in context. If you believe in a literal interpretation you have turned Christianity into a sort of idol worship.
@Jacobre156 The Anglican Church as a community is closely tied to the Roman Catholic Church in ritual, since the Liturgies were an important part to all English Christians since before the Schism brought about by Henry VIII. It is NOT, however, part of the ROMAN Catholic Church. It is part of the 'catholic' (from the Greek, meaning "Universal") church, in that it is one of the many Christian Communities of faith.
The other problem with such a generalization is that the Anglican Communion is too diverse. While it is easy to call the "low church" style typical of the Episcopal Church in Virginia Protestant, it is more difficult to say the same of the Anglo-Catholicism of the Oxford Movement, as demonstrated a little further south of St. John at St. Thomas on 5th Ave and St. Mary the Virgin just off Times Square. In many ways, they are more Catholic than modern Roman Catholic parishes.
I have been to Episcopal churches in Birmingham Al, Palm Springs , Roseville, Sacramento and a small one in Rialto and Sutter Creek California , all different styles of services but you hear the same liturgy
You clearly do not understand the English Reformation. Henry VIII broke from the RC Church, but the annulment was not his only reason for doing so; it was merely the straw that broke the horse's back. He did not found a new church. He removed a section of the Church from the authority of the Pope. The clergy was mostly maintained, and the practice of laying on of hands was continued, so the link of Apostolic succession was not broken and Anglican clergy can trace their roots back to Augustine.
I certainly wouldn't call it a "bridge church," but doctrinally the Anglican Church does fall between the RC and other Protestant denominations. Very few things are stark black and white. If it were that simple, there would be no books written on the subject. But the debate has existed since the Protestant Reformation (which was distinct from the English Reformation). Also, one cannot argue that the Anglican Church is not catholic, merely that it is not Catholic (different animal).
Anglo-Catholic is rarely anything like actual Catholic. The liturgies may look similar; indeed, Anglo-Catholic liturgies are often more traditional and more beautiful than those of the average Catholic parish. But the doctrinal teaching is NOT the same. I was Episcopalian before I became Catholic, and I well remember how "catholic" we thought we were. We were deluded.
Deluded? You now belong to a Church that burned Protestants at the stake , sold indulgences, and then in recent years passed pedifiles around their dioceses like they had done nothing really wrong, instead of doing a excommunication and kicking them out of the Priesthood, and this went on for years, and you call us Deluded?
This State Trumpet stop on 50-inches of wind sounds like the the Theatre Organ "Serpent" stop. Both have the very "thin" and bright sound. I think the Serpent stop seems to have more "crack" in the sound which sounds like a rip saw cutting through sheet metal. The "Bugel Battalia" is another stop in this loud, bright, and thin sounding organ stop family.
@brassspitoon Yes, the RC church is pretty much a zoo as well. As far as needing something to bash your church, I already did, and it seemed to have hit a sore spot. Oh well, zoo or no, none of this is the end of the world. I'll get over it.
By the way, I've never been pressured to drop a big wad of money on the Church. And we don't wonder if some of it is going to pay off hundreds of sexual abuse claims. Neither do we assume that it will be going to fund a new jet, vacation home, or huge spending allowance for the "preacher". But I'm sure you'll be sanctimonious enough to correct our ways. Dominus Vobiscum.
Sounds like most of the singers in the congregation are true Episcopalians (that's a Methodist joke ;-). Another Methodist joke: what do you get when you cross a Jehovah's Witness with a Unitarian? Someone who goes around knocking on doors for no apparent reason.
As I see it, there are only 3 categories of singing that should happen in the Anglican liturgy: congregational singing, choral singing, and chanting by the clergy. Cantors are unnecessary unless the officiant chant for himself and they are never suitable for leading the congregation. Soloists are only helpful for things like anthems, and usually they are part of a larger group or ensemble.
That's too broad of a statement. Anglo-Catholicism has taken root in a large part of the Anglican Communion, as well as in the Episcopal Church. They often consider themselves Catholic (yes, big C), just not Roman Catholic.
When is the Episcopal church going to learn people don't want their church to change? Why are you ruining the liturgy with twirling flags and dancers? It's damn near disrespectful to the magnificent church your degrading... Women took over the entire administration of the Episcopal Church - and this is what we get out of it. Schori did her best to break the church.
I mean no disrespect when I say this, but with such a beautiful church, an amazing organ, I think they need desperately a soloist to go along with it....a rich baritone or a mezzo....
It's a matter of opinion..and opinions are like belly buttons..everyone has one...I will always believe that St. Pat's is a much more beautiful worship space...St. John's is ok, but it's dark, gray and dingy...sorry if that disappoints you...
Been in many churches, but have visited one famous Basilica and three famous Cathedrals:
Saint Peters in Rome, Saint Patricks, Saint John The Divine in New York and the Cathedral of Madrid Spain. All have their own distinctive beauty and Architectural features that make them famous.
That organ!
All this discussion of light Catholic, etc., regardless - it was nice to see a Roman Catholic cardinal (retired NYC Archbishop, Cardinal Egan) in both the entrance procession and the recessional. I would so love to go there some day.
I just visited this cathedral and my is this one of the most depressing and heartbreaking things you'll ever see.. It's almost completely empty and barren. They had maybe only 100 small chairs right at the base of the sanctuary; rest of the space nothing The state trumpets aren't even up anymore which is what I was really hoping to see. $15 just to walk in to the saddest church of all with no one around to tell you anything about the place. The anglican side chapel was really cool though. The roof leaks made the interior look like a genuine 500+ year old chapel with water stains running down the walls and that old smell to it; felt you just walked back in time.
The State Trumpets have been removed due to ongoing stone restoration work in the Nave. They should be reinstalled in early 2019.
Playing in this place is so frickin' awesome! And you actually don't hear the state trumpet from the console much at all...actually, you don't hear it at all over full organ...yet it's such a loud stop. That building is just amazing.
Outstanding. I could do without the liturgical dancers and streamers, but otherwise, just stunning. I don't think I've ever seen a bishop be first in a procession. That was a new one.
when I got married 23 years ago in a high Episcopal Mass, with smells and bells, my Catholic inlaw family said they had not seen that high a service since Vatican II
Sad.
One of the great Cathedrals in New York City and the World, Saint John the Divine exhibits it's famous Gothic Architecture with an incredibly powerful Trumpet Organ. Magnificent.
The reverb in that room is magnificent !
Outstanding Job to the king of instruments
WOW! If HDTV and its audio need a church environment to demonstrate its capabilities, this church would be a mighty fine candidate.
Very good performance or service!
Very talented organist!
From the Verger and Thurifer to the dancers, the acolytes, the silks and spinny things to the end of the procession.... WOW! It may be "church" but it was a stupendous presentation. I loved it. The restored organ, the size of the cathedral and the many members of the procession made this mini-movie quite memorable. Thank you so much for catching it on your camera.
Thank you, CommenTarry, your comment is appreciated and the liturgy reflects the antiquity of ceremony with liturgical kites and dancers and thurifers. Yet, the Episcopal Church is current with women clergy.
i love how worship can be such an artistic, spiritual, physical and emotional act. People coming together, singing, praying, and involved is what it's all about! :)
You have no idea. I live in Washington, am Episcopalian and go to our cathedral from time to time. SJTD is much much larger. And our cathedral is 6th in size in the world. The stained glass windows in St. John are incredible, but you're right- the organ takes the cake. I swear if I had a toupee and was near the front, it would fly off my head at the blast of the trumpet pipes. There is no way to describe the sound. By all means, go. It's a real pilgrimage.
What a beautiful organ and service- so diverse and inclusive. It will never cease to amaze me how Christians seem to love to tear each other apart rather the bind together. Having read the Bible, I cannot find the source teaching they base this on.
I'm glad to hear this organ play again and to hear those powerful chamades in the back sound off once more.
Thank you livzdave for posting these videos of this magnificent restored Aeolian Skinner Organ. It is truly awesome!! I can only hope to one day visit this beautiful cathedral.
Also extend thanks to the FDNY heroes and all their fellow comrades for what they have endured not only through 9/11 but every day of their lives! Bravo to you from Canada!
Best Regards,
Roy
@codeman2008 There was a time saying or writing "The Anglican Church is the English Catholic church" would have been fighting words. Only in recent years, the Episcopal Church in the U.S. drop "Protestant" from its name. As an life-long Anglican, not once did I ever hear the English Anglican church refer to as the 'English Catholic Church'. While the Anglican and Lutheran denominations share a common lineage with the Roman Catholic faith, they are not Catholic in the Roman sense of the word.
Must say best music comes out of the Episcopal Church. Very inspiring. Wish I had been there with my fisheye lens
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! This awesome instrument has always been a favorite! The CD by Paul Haley is AMAZING as is Dorothy Papadakus CD. Pomp and Circumstance at its ABSOLUTE BEST!
It gets better each time I watch it
Why ruin the Liturgy with the liturgical dancers and the weird wavy/spinny things?
I wish this was professionally recorded, although that camcorder did a good job, considering. That organ and cavity are simply stunning. Turn the picture off and just listen to that instrument sing. Wow. Thanks so much for posting it.
Lyesndy hartmann
@@nickmellring4322 lynard skinnerd.
This is why the State Trumpet stop on this organ is considered to be the most famous rank of pipes on any organ, anywhere in the world.
Keep them coming, my friend!
My father would have loved to hear AND play that pipe organ. He was trained to play the pipe organ as well as piano. He recently told me there are far fewer colleges or universities that train music majors in pipe organ. Playing one is far different from a regular organ. Maybe that's where the phrase "Pulling out all the stops" came from.
Best organ in the USA. If only they didn't use those ridiculous liturgical dancers! They make a laughingstock of the liturgy by taking the meaning of liturgical dance totally out of context.
Wonderful!!!!
These re-dedication services that you posted are nothing short of awesome. What do they do for Christmas or Easter?
Certainly one of the best. And you are right, the dancers can kindly excuse themselves. They just don't fit. The National Cathedral has been doing that sort of thing lately too, and it's just not befitting of the nature of either of these great cathedrals.
@hildawhitby
There was a huge fire in the Cathedral in December 2001 or 2002, I forget which... There was a lot of damage to the gift shop, some of the artwork and the organ... This service was the first with the restored organ. They had been using a substitute while the organ was being repaired. The cathedral which had been "half closed" for repairs was open completely for the first time also in this service.
In the ancient Byzantine church, the buildings were circular, and the service was performed as a ballet, with an inner and outer circle of people. The climax of the service was the kiss, between to men representing Christ and St Paul, I think. I was reading a book of Byzantine architecture, which described the early service, to explain the significance of the central dome, which was where the kiss happened.
It was a thrill for me to see Archbishop Dolan and Cardinal Eagan in this video.
The first applause was for the NYC Police and Fire Dept. The second was sheer joy. I hope you know the Episcopal Church would welcome you at anytime to explore our denomination.
I left an Awesome rating, but Awesome isnt high enough to rate this , It is beyond Awesome
They could have continued playing and anyone more than 20' away wouldn't have known it! This is why it's the King of Instruments!
I have played concerts at St. T's, been to dozens of services there; Trinity, Wall; Smoky Mary's, St. Ignatius (both RC & Episc.), and lived there many years. The ECUSA is about to implode. Many churches, even dioceses have fled in horror at the zoo that they were living in. Good for them. Take the bull by the horn and RUN for your life!
The Cathedral has always had a looney-bin feel to it, if you ask me (nobody asked me!). Impressive bldg., if size is your criterion; otherwise, stay at home.
And, alas, we tend to be rather open about who's asked to cantor, much to my chagrin every Sunday.
St. Pat's is the Walt Disney version of a cathedral. Two words: Tack. Y. And frankly, I liked St. John the Divine better before the cleaning. Bring on the dinge!
@livzdave
During the Recessional a few of the Celebrants stop to greet a member of the Congregation who is seated just in front of the camera, who is that person?
for hildawhitby, They had a huge fire and a restoration of the building which was what this rededication was celebrating. My guess is that much of the art work is still being cleaned or restored. Very costly in time and treasure.
"And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth." Revelation 17:18 KJV
I just had a visit to New York and visited the Cathedral for the first time in a long time. Does anyone know WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PLACE? It's like they stripped it of all artwork that could actually be moved. The large crucifix and Black Madonna in the Narthex - gone. The statue of St. Francis, the wolf, the buffalo - gone. The Holocaust Memorial - gone. The large brass artifact that holds the Book of Remembrance is there - you can't move THAT - but there is no BOOK in it anymore!
You ever seen where the Dean of John the Divine lives? A mansion in a wooded area of Manhattan's Upper West Side is one hell of a perk. And they just laid off workers.
@livzdave No, it is Roman Catholics who refer to us Episcopalians or Anglicans as 'light Catholics' or 'Catholic light'. Actually, the Anglican Church is the bridge church or denomination between the Catholics and Protestants with our 'high' (Catholic), 'low' (Protestant) and 'broad' (combination of the two) parishes and forms of worship.
What is a "Rededication Service"? However, this is just beautiful.
St.John the Divine suffered a devastating fire in December 2001. It took some years to clean up the damage, and this recording is of the rededication of the cathedral after the fire
I used to be Episcopalian. Thirteen years ago I became Catholic. I would NOT say that the Episcopal Church (or the Anglican Church; they are not the same thing) falls between the Catholic Church and other Protestant denominations. And to emphasize: St. John the Divine is NOT Catholic.
The liturgies may look similar but the doctrinal teaching of the ECUSA and the Catholic Church are MILES apart. Catholics have more in common with Baptists than with the Episcopalians.
Thank you, that is very kind. I'm sure like any church (including mine) it has its pros and cons.
Can somebody identify the seated gentlemen in front of the Cameraperson, some of the people in the Recessional go over to shake his hand.
Oh no !! This is St. John the Divine (SJTD)... I was comparing it to Wash. Cathedral - I hate calling our cathedral "National Cathedral". It's the Cathedral Church of St. Peter and St. Paul. Not sure of the status of the organ here. I'm just glad St. John the Divine has been able to get back on its feet. Now if they can just finish it. The transepts are still to be built as well as the towers.
Wow! The brass don't stand a chance at 0:41! The organ just annihilates them! That must have been the full Bombarde reed chorus!
Wow - that was an awful lot of insence to be burning just after cleaning all the smoke residue off the interior LOL!
This may sound like the Met to you, but it's an ancient Chant from the middle ages.....way before the met came into existence.
This is a cantor part during an Armenian Eastern orthodox liturgy. FYI-Armenia was the first official Christian nation.
Look up:
"Mary Magdalene Armenian Church Badarak Mass"
on youtube. This is not from a Catholic mass....
If you consider it a zoo, I urge you to visit some other parishes. Yes, some of the major cathedrals (including the National Cathedral) have become a bit lax in what they allow in the context of the mass, but others, I assure you, have not. Visit St. Thomas, 5th Ave, or the Church of the Incarnation in Dallas. They are just a couple of examples, but traditional Anglo-Catholicism is alive and well if you know where to look for it.
Quite true, quite true!
The structure of the Church of England remained the same after the split, with the notable exception of the college of cardinals and the Pope. The mass was not immediately modified and when it was, it retained much of its original form. The "high church" Anglican liturgy today is more "Catholic" than the Catholic rite. There is debate over whether or not Anglicans are Protestant. Some individual churches say yes, while others say no. That division also exists within the Episcopal Church itself.
Such a big and glorious building, but St. Patrick's is much more "beautiful"
@maraljan A church such as this great cathedral is not a concert hall. Although the unchurched or people from other churches or faith traditions may feel the need to incorporate soloists in such in a liturgy. Anglicans, as a rule, do not.
@59swl No - they are catholic in the small 'c', i.e., universal church aspect. Romans, Eastern churches (both Eastern Catholic and Orthodox), the Anglican communion and Lutherans are ALL small "C" catholic churches.
@codeman2008 That's really true! My church is an Anglo-Catholic church and to be honest, I think our service is much more Roman Catholic than the actual Roman Catholics.
Bah! True Catholicism is not the Novus Ordo, which is what you are comparing your glorified service to instead of the true Mass which is where all of the ornamentation, rubrics, and such things for your glorified protestant supper come from. Convert!
Novusordowatch.org
@Geigemann88 That a matter of opinion. It all depends on what you are looking for. I tend to like Riverside and St. John the Divine.oth are wonderful instruments and are the best of their time time.
I agree with you that the "liturgical" DANCERS NEED TO JUST go away!
MW, Atlanta, GA
I am Baptist and you're right, there are way more similarities in attitude and Biblical approach between Catholics and Baptist than Episcopal and RC. Episcopals are very liberal and will allow just about anything to go on during a service. Catholics (or Baptists) would never allow such "showiness" in a service, like the twirling of those ribbons, the applause, the overdone processional etc. Episcopalians always seemed to me like they were puttin on a 'show', rather than having a service.
@oofahman Amazing how alot of people - including me - felt God's presence in that "dark, gray and dingy" place, especially when the light hit those stained glass windows just right....go figure.... :)
The Episcopal church is part of the anglican communion which is non monarchal despite accepting Canterbury as its head. Our Bishops are appointed by the Queen although she can only act on recommendations from the wider church. Candidates have to agree for their names going forward.
This is perhaps the problem child in the communion as its liberal ways have put it under strain with many conservative parts of the church.
@Jacobre156 The Episcopal Church, however, although now in FELLOWSHIP with the Anglican Church, is not under the SUPREME AUTHORITY of the Anglican Church. It had to split from its Anglican Sister when the colonies severed political ties with England (If they hadn't, the priests would still have had to answer to the king, who appoints the Archbishop of Canterbury, and leader of the Anglican Church--and therefore wouldn't have been COMPLETELY independent from the monarchy).
I think the name Raymond is mentioned.
The Anglican church is not apostolic...it was founded by a mere mortal man, Henry the VIII...he broke from union with Rome because Rome would not allow him to get an annulment, so he got ticked off at the Pope at that time and started his own church. When someone 'founds' their own Church, it is NOT Apostolic (a direct descendant of the Apostles) but a man-made organization. Only the RC Church can trace it's founding back to Christ. Study the history and writings of the early church fathers.
THE EN CHAMADES INSTANTLY BRINGS A QUICKENING IN THE HOLY GHOST AND FYUH
@oofahman It absolutely depends on taste. St. Patrick's is Rome beauty, St. John's is England beauty! Obviously I prefer England. :)
St. John The Divine is a episcopal church, isn´t it?? The procession looks like roman-catholic...
Excuse me my dear, I must correct your ignorance
The idea of a "Cantor" is not only common in the catholic Church, but it exists also in Judaism-hello! Look it up sweetheart....hazzanim
Cantors are also present in Ancient Eastern orthodox liturgies....you might want to look that one up too :)
As you can see this was in existance WAY BEFORE the met was even concieved....:)
Mefactor, since you've been here twice, we Episcopalians hold some fascination for you. An inability to question, challenge & reconsider anything, including theology indicates a shallow faith, not a strong one. Christian scripture asserts a support of slavery, does that mean it must be codified then? No. We understand scripture to be a living document, & that it must be read in context. If you believe in a literal interpretation you have turned Christianity into a sort of idol worship.
As a matter of convention, all of the churches within the Anglican Communion are geographically bounded
LOL!!! Man that's funny.........
I guess when the Presiding Bishop attends, it is acceptable to have her process first.... :-)
@Jacobre156 The Anglican Church as a community is closely tied to the Roman Catholic Church in ritual, since the Liturgies were an important part to all English Christians since before the Schism brought about by Henry VIII. It is NOT, however, part of the ROMAN Catholic Church. It is part of the 'catholic' (from the Greek, meaning "Universal") church, in that it is one of the many Christian Communities of faith.
@Geigemann88 Amen!
The other problem with such a generalization is that the Anglican Communion is too diverse. While it is easy to call the "low church" style typical of the Episcopal Church in Virginia Protestant, it is more difficult to say the same of the Anglo-Catholicism of the Oxford Movement, as demonstrated a little further south of St. John at St. Thomas on 5th Ave and St. Mary the Virgin just off Times Square. In many ways, they are more Catholic than modern Roman Catholic parishes.
I have been to Episcopal churches in Birmingham Al, Palm Springs , Roseville, Sacramento and a small one in Rialto and Sutter Creek California , all different styles of services but you hear the same liturgy
You clearly do not understand the English Reformation. Henry VIII broke from the RC Church, but the annulment was not his only reason for doing so; it was merely the straw that broke the horse's back. He did not found a new church. He removed a section of the Church from the authority of the Pope. The clergy was mostly maintained, and the practice of laying on of hands was continued, so the link of Apostolic succession was not broken and Anglican clergy can trace their roots back to Augustine.
I certainly wouldn't call it a "bridge church," but doctrinally the Anglican Church does fall between the RC and other Protestant denominations. Very few things are stark black and white. If it were that simple, there would be no books written on the subject. But the debate has existed since the Protestant Reformation (which was distinct from the English Reformation). Also, one cannot argue that the Anglican Church is not catholic, merely that it is not Catholic (different animal).
Not really. It isn't low church, but it's not quite Oxford Movement either. The incense is simply called for because of the major occasion.
Great playing by Bruce. I could do without the flag carrying liturgical dancers. They add nothing but distraction an otherwise gorgeous service.
Anglo-Catholic is rarely anything like actual Catholic. The liturgies may look similar; indeed, Anglo-Catholic liturgies are often more traditional and more beautiful than those of the average Catholic parish. But the doctrinal teaching is NOT the same. I was Episcopalian before I became Catholic, and I well remember how "catholic" we thought we were. We were deluded.
Deluded? You now belong to a Church that burned Protestants at the stake , sold indulgences, and then in recent years passed pedifiles around their dioceses like they had done nothing really wrong, instead of doing a excommunication and kicking them out of the Priesthood, and this went on for years, and you call us Deluded?
@livzdave Oh, goody, goody. All we need is liturgical dancers. The ECUSA has become such a zoo!
This State Trumpet stop on 50-inches of wind sounds like the the Theatre Organ "Serpent" stop. Both have the very "thin" and bright sound.
I think the Serpent stop seems to have more "crack" in the sound which sounds like a rip saw cutting through sheet metal. The "Bugel Battalia" is another stop in this loud, bright, and thin sounding organ stop family.
Here come the Nymphs of Arianna
@brassspitoon Yes, the RC church is pretty much a zoo as well. As far as needing something to bash your church, I already did, and it seemed to have hit a sore spot.
Oh well, zoo or no, none of this is the end of the world. I'll get over it.
I think those twirling flags and ribbons are pretty tacky personally...
By the way, I've never been pressured to drop a big wad of money on the Church. And we don't wonder if some of it is going to pay off hundreds of sexual abuse claims. Neither do we assume that it will be going to fund a new jet, vacation home, or huge spending allowance for the "preacher". But I'm sure you'll be sanctimonious enough to correct our ways.
Dominus Vobiscum.
Jesus twitchin' on a stick! Not TWO thuribles! What were they thinking?!
@ms103127 yeah, go figure, eh??
Sounds like most of the singers in the congregation are true Episcopalians (that's a Methodist joke ;-). Another Methodist joke: what do you get when you cross a Jehovah's Witness with a Unitarian? Someone who goes around knocking on doors for no apparent reason.
As I see it, there are only 3 categories of singing that should happen in the Anglican liturgy: congregational singing, choral singing, and chanting by the clergy. Cantors are unnecessary unless the officiant chant for himself and they are never suitable for leading the congregation. Soloists are only helpful for things like anthems, and usually they are part of a larger group or ensemble.
That's too broad of a statement. Anglo-Catholicism has taken root in a large part of the Anglican Communion, as well as in the Episcopal Church. They often consider themselves Catholic (yes, big C), just not Roman Catholic.
When is the Episcopal church going to learn people don't want their church to change? Why are you ruining the liturgy with twirling flags and dancers? It's damn near disrespectful to the magnificent church your degrading... Women took over the entire administration of the Episcopal Church - and this is what we get out of it. Schori did her best to break the church.
I mean no disrespect when I say this, but with such a beautiful church, an amazing organ, I think they need desperately a soloist to go along with it....a rich baritone or a mezzo....
Why Are There Women Dancing Around. This Looks Like Some Weird NO New Age Mass
It's a matter of opinion..and opinions are like belly buttons..everyone has one...I will always believe that St. Pat's is a much more beautiful worship space...St. John's is ok, but it's dark, gray and dingy...sorry if that disappoints you...
I assume this is Anglo-Catholic church, due to the incense!.
Liturgical abuse in whose opinion? Are they not dancing before the Lord?