oh man please make a rating list of the best 3rd party controller options for PC. I currently have an 8Bitdo but the joystick is already drifting above that 10% deadzone and its ANNOYING so i might as well buy one like the one you mentioned
I just want to correct something, the N64 joystick was OPTICAL, not Hall Effect. It avoids many of the normal potentiometer stick issues, but does have it's own
The reliance on line of sight can cause issues if the wheels that pass in front of the optical sensors get gunked up, causing artificial drift, or missing values which shortens the stick's virtual range.
Yeah idk where they got the hall effect, as that's relatively new, with gc controller mod kits actualling adding it to the original gc gamepad. Edit: after watching the video he never claimed they were Hall effect but that new 3rd party gamepads do so nothing to correct 🤷🏽♂️
@ yeah, but he talked about them together so I thought it was a good idea to clarify. Also Hall effect is not even remotely new, it’s just finally having its time to shine
@@Ebani you said “as that’s relatively new” regarding Hall effect… I might be missing remembering, but there are Hall effect sticks that PRE DATE potentiometer based sticks, they are old
Developer of ArcRacer here, which I see is on your big list of AGRs; thanks for making this series! It's nice to see the genre getting some love, I'll be watching with interest.
what pisses me off most about F-Zero X is that Nintendo's official re-releases are, demonstrably, far and away the worst ways to play this. The joystick sensitivity is absurdly strong, even putting aside the fact that their modern sticks have stick drift, and have had it since the Wii. The N64 used hard plastic for its' stick, with some minor weight to the stick itself. That means it can't snap to full lock without a bit of effort, but by constrast it ALSO makes small adjustments much, MUCH easier! If you're not lucky enough to have original hardware - Grab a PC emulator, set the stick senstivity to an upper deadzone of 15%. That will make your maximum range well within the game's much smaller boundary, and it plays like butter once you do that!
The reason why the stick sensitivity is so strong is because the N64 controller could only reach 66% maximum output. This meant the game was programmed to see any input as 33% higher than it really was. Emulators (good ones anyway) let you fix this by reducing the maximum range of the sticks to 66% so it mimics the N64 input. Nintendo didn't care to do this.
yup zero shits given by Nintendo. The vc wii version and wiiU version both both jittery with no subtle inbetween range detected. Same with Starfox. It also annoys me when channels review these rereleases and don't ever seem to notice to massive difference and it allows Nintendo to keep dropping the ball so far as these games. Same with Perfect Dark and Goldeneye when that released again for xbox 360 and then xbox one. N64 controller was clearly very different and simply remapping it doesn't represent it's accuracy at all. Such a shame
Yup my first exp with F-Zero X was on the Wii VC. When I played the game on an actual 64 for the first time I was surprised that the cursor on the machine settings screen wasn't immediately flying off with the touch of the stick.
I feel like the reason they abandoned the Hall Effect controllers is due to cost. Why spend 50 cents on something when you can spend 8 cents on something that works roughly the same way? It's the same reason cars don't have physical controls on them anymore.
When I was really little, I played this while holding the stick all the way up (because that’s what worked in Mario Kart 64) but if you don’t let go when you go off a ramp, you force your vehicle downward and die every time. It took me longer than I’m proud to admit to learn this lesson as a kid that there was a correlation to what I was doing and to why I was dying, but it’s something that I’ve never forgotten. So keep that in mind if you drive that style.
F-Zero X also had the same lead programmer as Wave Race 64 and, as far as I know, no other racing game afterwards. The guy honestly seemed like an unsung genius. Heck, I'd even go far as to say that despite the hardware issues, the N64 era was Nintendo at their peak. Don't get me wrong, I really like the Gamecube too, but I think people tend to over praise it a bit too much and tend to forget that there were a lot of growing pains early on in its lifespan and outside of Melee and GX, a lot of crappy sequels.
Agreed. The N64 was limited in its library, but any list of the top games of all time will be dominated by N64 games and for good reason. Agree with the critique of GameCube, as well. There were a few really good games there like Melee and especially the Metroid Prime games, but a lot of what it got just wasn't as good as the N64. Controversial take, but I feel the same way with the PS1 to PS2; out of the ones I've played, PS2 sequels just felt like a downgrade from the PS1. Lots of franchises were just better on the PS1 from the Xeno- series to Resident Evil to Spyro and lots of others.
@@latt.qcd9221 I never understood the hype for the RE series. Silent Hill did horror and terror much better. With that said, the PS2 was gloriously better than PS1 but I'm biased because I played all of the genres that I was looking forward to on the PS2 (except Twisted Metal which pretty much went downhill since TM2).
Gamecube sucked compared to the N64. The N64 was truly revolutionary and I'd say as revolutionary for gaming as much as the PS1. If it wasn't for these two consoles existing next to each other at the time, entire generations of players would have never seen the light of true 3D gaming in the modern era and they were the first ones to experience that.
@@BleedForTheWorld I just recently played the first three Silent Hill games -- working on Silent Hill 4 atm -- and I definitely enjoyed the way it did many things compared to RE. RE focuses way more on "strategy" for its scares while Silent Hill focuses way more on "atmosphere" for its scares. I definitely enjoy the latter more for my horror games. Personally, I preferred SH 1 over SH 2 and SH 3, with SH 2 being my least favorite. With all of the massive amounts of praise that SH 2 got, I was really excited to play it, but I just couldn't get into it, and it felt like the usual PS1 to PS2 "downgrade" that I've usually experienced. It didn't really feel like horror to me, either. I could definitely see the inspiration from Jacob's Ladder throughout it, but I'd just rather watch the movie for that "melancholic" horror experience. PS2 still has some excellent titles, though, and it's definitely one of the better systems. Most of the retro games I'm currently in the middle of are PS2.
@@BleedForTheWorld Yup, I'd have to agree, even though I still like the GameCube. N64 and PS1 were some of the most important consoles. Most of the best games, as well as most of my favorite games, were on those two consoles along with the Super Nintendo.
My parents wonder why I'm so specific about what controller I consider, and why I don't even consider 1st party ones, and one with swappable cages/housing
I was using the Steam Controller for most games due to 0 drift when disabling deadzones. People never understand this but what I don't understand is how they can play without constantly overshooting. It's nearly impossible to learn by heart where the exact deadzone range is
I'm glad you're doing this series, very few people into racing games as a genre talk about ag racing. I'm also happy to see the Redout games on that massive timeline you show, they're some of my favorite racing games of all time and it's awesome to see someone recognize them.
Your channel is one of the few that speaks the plain truth without the need of marketing speak or some other type of BS. Hope you see this comment and get the message that we love your content. Wish there was a way to donate some coffee cups to you.
Fun fact: the controllers you showed with the spinning with force feedback and the one where you turn or steer twisting are made by Namco for the PS1 and PS2. Shocking how old some stuff is but still holds up today or it becomes the best way to play this games. Nice video!! btw
I actually used to make fun of that awkward and strange setup when I was a kid, and got to play with one recently for Outrun if my memory isn't faulty (it was that or Virtua Racer and I don't think that was it.) It's not intuitive, and does take a bit of learning to get decent, but what surprised me was the *lack of input lag,* meanwhile if you tried a similar wheel-and-pedal setup which was 10x more expensive there was enough of a delay to be an irritation. The weird twisty pad I enjoyed. I don't usually like "stupid peripherals" because of Nintendo and their constant drive to sell us more plastic trash. Namco did *really* good on those. I have no idea how to *fix or repair* them though. If i have a damaged N64 pad you can sometimes find third-party sticks to replace worn ones; and I can always find a new "stick" as long as the housing and casing are good, but I have no idea how to replace a *rotating* pad. I know more about *fine-tuning the laser reader for a gamecube* then I do about those pads.
Linus Tech Tips reviewed the twisting controller and complained about the dead zones and inaccuracy, though did say that at the time of release, it would have been amazing. As in, it doesn't hold up to modern standards.
@@CouchPotator The Negcon is always going to have some play in it, just because it has a gear-driven mechanism. Namco was probably aware of this, but the gearing mechanism provided resistance and allowed a long travel in a compact device. Longer travel allows the player to more easily make precise inputs that aren't at the extreme ranges of movement, as does resistance to movement(resistance also makes it easier to maintain a consistent input)
For N64 I'd highly recommend the Ultra Racer controller. There is also a PS1 version, but for whatever reason they made the trigger on it only single action rather the dual action, which makes it far less useful.
Oh, when you go over other AGRs, make special mention of Star Wars Episode 1 Racer. Due to it being a movie tie-in, it's actually still to this day the best selling AGR ever produced.
Perhaps you mean "despite it being a move tie-in" rather than "due to it being a movie tie-in." Games based on or tied to movies are almost always terrible. Star Wars Episode I Racer, however, was one of the best AGR games produced, and certainly one of the best Star Wars games up there with Star Wars Rogue Squadron and Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic.
@@latt.qcd9221 I mean what I said. As good as it was, I highly doubt EP1R wouldn't have sold anywhere near as well if it wasn't for it being a Star Wars game. I have no clue why, since I can't see how zooming around at breakneck speeds in a hover vehicle doesn't appeal to someone, but for some reason AGRs just don't typically sell well regardless of how good they are.
@@latt.qcd9221 Star Wars was, up until recently, a franchise with unusually good movie tie-ins though. Rogue Squadron, Ep1 racer, the Tie Fighter games, dark forces, the original battlefronts... a lot of truly great games in the IP.
This looks actually like one of the more thoughtful AGRs, which makes me wonder: are you going to Rank them at the end aswell? Im sure youtube loves rankings
The thing about F-Zero X on N64 was because the sticks were optical sensors, not potentiometers. Potentiometers are the cheapest way to make your controller's sensors. This is the often standard stick sensor in your typical PS and XB controllers, and even in the joycons. Hall Effect sensors are the rising new standard which is related to the electromagnetic sensors known to exist in the control sticks for the Sega Dreamcast. These modern hall effect sensors however were popularized and made mainstream by GuliKit, and these sensors do not risk drifting. Optical sensors: These are EXTREMELY precise! Like Hall effect sensors, these sticks are often extremely precise, and if they were made of metal, they would last much longer, but sadly, the optical sensor sticks popular in N64 controllers were made of plastic to cut the costs, which in turn made them prone to fail not by the sensor's fault, but by the fault of the fact of wear and tear over frequent use. Microswitch arcade sticks: These sticks use microswitches, and are used in arcade machines and fight sticks that offer the arcade authentic feeling. F-Zero X made optimal use of the N64's optical sensor control stick, and it's precise nature. THAT is what makes F-Zero X control so well.
Mario 64 was another game highly tuned to the optical sensors. There really just is no substitute for an original N64 controller when playing that game.
That tidbit of using hall effect joysticks instead of regular joysticks I should get one (not just for X, but also GX), i never knew that these joysticks could help with your accuracy by tons, thank you
Counterpoint to "no reason not to push the stick all the way": Trackmania. In it, turning too far can cost you more time than you gain from precise, tight, and smooth turns. It's a noticeable difference when using the Rally and Desert cars, but not as noticable on the Stadium car, which is why Stadium is more popular (as you can play it with a keyboard and not be too far behind the joystick/wheel users in precision); and nowadays they've also added Action Keys for kb users to steer at 20/40/60/80% of the maximum steer.
Yeah, the whole "most racing games only need digital steering" thing was so incredibly wrong that I can only assume it was said specifically to provoke corrections..
Many games have speed proportional steering, which makes digital/full stick movements less of an issue, though even playing with keyboard I preter to turn it off and just repeatedly tap the button to not turn fully.
Huh, those action keys sound interesting. I've sometimes thought about an idea to make racing games more keyboard friendly by making a row of keys correspond to different turn sensitivities, so you would slide your finger along the keyboard to turn. I always figured it would be too annoying to be worth the benefit in precision. Sounds like someone actually did it.
@@CptJistuce They do have a point though the assists thrown in make up for such lousy controller sticks are way way too obnoxiously powerful in nearly every game, to the point you can be competitive with effectively binary steering as long as the game thinks you're using a controller so the silent never mentioned anywhere and not possible to disable manually 'make up for the garbage gamepad stick assists' are enabled... There are a few outliers that still really demand the player actually does all the work and thus are really not very good if playable at all without a flight stick, wheel, or very very good gamepad stick, and a few that manage to have such aggressive assists always on so the game becomes inconsistent and virtually unplayable with a wheel... But on the whole racing games have lost that semi-realisitic simulator and high skill ceiling by design in favour of being more accessible to all - I keep thinking I might get into the new trackmania as one of the few remaining outliers, as it would be nice to have a new racing game with new tracks to try etc, but I don't really like the business model and so far that and the fact I've had to pack up the wheel and not found space to set it up again yet has put me off.
>which is why Stadium is more popular Uh, no that's not why stadium is the popular environment, it's because it was the free environment for like years on end (You've also got 5 different versions of stadium too in release order TMN ESWC, TMU, TMNF/UF, TM2:Stadium, and the newest one which is just called Trackmania), which also meant that there was a lot more exploration into the mechanics and physics of the Stadium car over the others.
And that's why Steam Controller (press [f] to pay respects) came with touchpads! (Also in Steam, for every controller that it supports, you can turn off the deadzone and change your sticks sensitivity curve)
Well no, the Steam Controller came with touchpads, because GabeN thought a touchpad was better than a control stick for aiming, due to it being more like a mouse. It's not, you were better using a stick to aim OR the gyro which they didn't promote, because they thought touchpad! There's a reason people connect mice to laptops, it's because they're more precise than a touchpad.
@@lmcgregoruk Not really true on so many fronts... For one there are plenty of people out there now who can't use a regular mouse nearly as precisely and comfortably as they can the touchpad now - they didn't grow up using a mouse, but have lots of time on touch devices... Also the trackpad on the steam controller is great when you learn how to use it, and set it up the way you like for that style of game. And that is essential for bringing PC gaming to the console gamer market - you just flat out can't play many games on a regular controller at all, but the Steam Controller will let you, might even make it easier to play than the original KB/mouse control! For myself in the aiming department it has to be Trackball mode with zero friction combined with the gyro - way way faster flicks so its almost like having the turn 180 right now button some games have had, but with actual choice on how far you jump (assuming the framerate is good enough) and still got the potential for really really high precision as with the gyro playing assist and the relatively large trackpad with custom curves...
I had the original version of this game released in the US (no expansion) and beat it about every way possible (all circuits with all characters and all difficulties). My favorite thing about this game is by far the soundtrack followed closely by the framerate. One thing I would add to your video though, when sliding / drifting (if I recall you can hold Z and R to force a drift) the Acceleration / Speed setting makes a huge difference - Vehicles favoring speed slow down considerably when drifting while vehicles favoring acceleration actually speed quite a bit when drifting. This is extremely useful in tight spaces where there are tons of racers in a large group as a spin attack can take them out quickly. Acceleration / Speed also affects your vehicles ability to fly - High speed does not fly too well while you can fly much further with high acceleration. Great video though, F-Zero X is one of my favorite games ever!
I never emulated this game so I'm glad this video made me aware of this before I emulated it. I wonder how many people encountered this problem when playing on Nintendo's emulated release of F-Zero X
@@seP4That's honestly the only monkey paw possible with an hypothetical GX remake (unless they slap the controls hard to compensate or they are just doing a new game) because the difference on quality AND durability between the GC's stick and the joycons is huge
As someone who grew up on the WII VC release of F-Zero X: Nintendo has NEVER been able to correctly emulate their own joystick. It has always been absurdly over-sensitive, even by the standards of a modern controller, *let alone compared to the ORIGINAL controller that the game expects you to use.* I couldn't even beat the 2nd cup on novice difficulty, even having gone back to the VC version for comparison after I 100% finished the original cart. Having now compared the two releases, and playing the N64 religiously with a 4th controller we never touched as kids, it feels like it's fresh out of the box and the difference is night and day. Unless you can buy a hall effect joystick, you simply cannot steer, and that is by design. Throwing the joystick to the edges isn't a 90-degree turn of the wheel in F-Zero; it's more akin to yanking the steering wheel all 900 degrees to full lock.
@@ArcadeStriker GC's stick was significantly more durable, so people picking up a used GC controller will have virtually the same experience. Unfortunately, it was never a very good experience because the GC's stick was too sensitive and imprecise for a series like F-Zero.
@@ArcadeStriker The joy con are the worst Nintendo "sticks" bar none(the New/3ds' circlepad is second place, but even it is not as absolutely dire), but I don't think it would be much of an issue. Unlike N64 games, GC games work just fine with any modern controlstick and people are already coping hard with the stick drift to the point it can be considered an added challenge to play with it(I definitly think of it as such, even if just to make the wait for Switch 2 less painful because I am not willing to get a second pair of joy cons or go a week or more without Switch for official repairs).
Stick drift wasn't an issue decades ago, because we used better potentiometers. Also, the Dreamcast thumbstick was doing it because the Saturn 3D Controller's analog pad used Hall effect sensors. I believe the Saturn did it so that the analog pad had even resistance in all directions instead of being biased towards the four cardinal directions. (Their analog pad was very thoughtful in its design, and I wish it was a design that won.)
The PS1 and PS2 also used potentiometers and weren't prone to stick drift the way modern controllers are. PS2 controllers would constantly recalibrate themselves to solve the issue. Obviously, after years of usage they'd still drift because the actual mechanical parts like the spring would deteriorate and give you an even worse form of drift because your stick would never center properly again. The N64 was particularly atrocious when it came to this, too. I can't wait 'til the people falling for all this stupid marketing and buying cheap chinese controller after cheap chinese controller with hall effect or TMR sticks starts encountering this, lol.
@@Klefth Yeah, the N64 stick is weird. I remain shocked that Nintendo didn't realize they had two plastics that would abrade in direct contact. The tiniest of nylon bearings would make the N64 story very different.
Literally last gen was not as bad as what we currently have going on. It took years for consoles like the WiiU to start lightly drifting. Now we have strong drift after just a few months with almost any controller made by anyone. It sux.
@@CptJistuce it really wouldn't. The only thing that would have made the N64 story better was more games, its was laughably bad how few titles it received because they didn't stick a CD drive in there.
Okay hear me out, you really solved a great mystery for me now, years after it happened. When I was a child/teen, F-Zero X was absolutely my favorite game and I used to be really really good at it. So naturally, when I saw it on any emulator, like on the Wii or so, later in my life, I was super excited to play it again at some friend's places. That happened a few times and every time I got utterly disappointed when actually playing it, because I performed so badly. I had no idea why that was, but it really bothered me to no end. I had a feeling it must be the controller - I always held it in a very peculiar way on the original hardware and I knew the inputs had to be really precise, but no matter what I tried on other consoles, I couldn't really steer properly. So, now I know why it happened. I am really really happy to have understood it years later. Thank you!
Fantastically well made video. Topic specific, no rambling, covers all the issues and mentions why under 10 minutes. The fact that the N64 controller is perhaps the most prone to failure (from before PS4 at least) makes this be like salt on the wounds
Hey Sepi! Just wanted to let you know that you're on of the very few people I have notifications enabled for, because you're just an honest youtuber with a clear vision of what you want to achieve with your videos. The kind of content you make is very hard to come by nowadays, so thank you for being a real creator!
8:22 *HUH?!* Beyond the "can stay up" aspect of Aerogauge, every single control and handling aspect was my BENCHMARK for ARG. I was specifically excited for its spotlight in your series.
I've tried hooking my n64 to a modern display with minimal lag and compared it to the switch version of f-zero. Both were hard to control. I even used a n64 controller adapter for the switch. I was able to beat the Joker cup on master on both systems but it wasn't fun. F-Zero X is best played on a CRT TV. The lag free experience is absolutely critical to make frame perfect maneuvers and prevent over steering and loosing grip. It also helps with keeping your drifts tight and stay at maximum speed. If your drifting angle is off by a degree it loses speed. Being able to instantly react to the machines reaction to your input is what makes this game fun.
Bought the NSO N64 controller just for this one and was so disappointed, the joystick is basically fake. The real N64 stick was so precise, it was a joy to find the sweet spot to turn without slipping...
did you use a third party emulator to play it or not? because minus the lack of optical measure for the inputs the stick is otherwise built almost the same. I ask which you played because the nsp emulation is downright horrible, with a ton of issues and a shocking amount of lag even after they claim to have fixed it ages ago. If you're gonna play n64 with an nso controller try connecting it to PC to compare howitzer played with more accurate emulation, you might be surprised
@@dooplon5083To add to this - there's a pretty good video by Dubesinhower comparing the original N64, NSO, and 8bitdo controllers on an original N64. Side by side comparisons within a joystick testing tool showed both Nintendo joysticks being near identical with the NSO version having a slightly larger range. He also did a "tip toe test" in Mario 64 where the NSO controller seemed to have similar if not better control than the original, most likely because it was less worn in. The 8bitdo Gamecube style thumbstick performed the worst of the three.
@@kylegusek not surprising lol. I love yhe gamecubeb and its stick is great but the n64 games that use a stick were not designed for it at all lol. It's like trying to pilot a plane with your feet despite having functional hands, you can try it but don't be surprised when something screws up lol
Lol, the NSO controller is so identical that it shares the same friction issue(Basically, parts rub together internally on usage and that causes damage, meaning that the joystick literally destroys itself over time).
@lpfan4491 It's definitely a concern, much more if you're frantically palming it in heavy Mario Party sessions. I haven't seen any comments about actual degradation yet, and mine have been great so far. Been thinking about adding some grease for preventative measure. From what I've read thumbsticks are the same but bowls aren't, so we'll probably have to wait 5-10 years to see how these hold up before anyone cares to make replacement parts - if they're even popular/common enough.
I played with a controller that had a deead zone on the outside of the joystick, you could never go full left of full rigth and it was perfect for this game.
The reason X is my favourite f zero is the sliding out system is very predictable but punishing so I get a kick out of that, plus the side attack can't be done every 2 nanoseconds unlike it's gamecube successor, and also I can emulate it on everything I own instead of only my desktop pc for gx
I'm not surprised it can handle 30 racers at 60 fps, the textures are as muddy as ever, racers all are either tiny models or have barely any pilygons, the tracks are long, barren mostly obscured by fog and include all kinds of twists and turns that there's bound to be plenty of developer tricks at play to keep the game running smoothly, it all comes together in a delightful package in my opinion :)
I try to explain the joystick to people, and they can't wrap their head around it.😅 growing up with it you DEFINITELY feel the difference on a playstation or xbox controller
Even the older playstation controllers are much better, I'm always impressed how much more precise my Dualshock 3 is than any controller that came after it
Oh shit, Arc Racer (AGR games list - at the top row because it is a recent game) and AeroGauge (the game when "not hovercrafts" is said and there's a flying orange machine shown) cameos Definitely will be looking forward to how much further you delve into these games with that chunky list :) And enjoyed that bit about analog stick precision for racers - there's many racers that I enjoy but need a GC or X360 controller to play in the best way - most are because they were designed for arcades (so...a wheel), but X and GX definitely can be highlighted as console-made racers that also demand that tou have a quality analog stick and precision in your thumb to go with it. Cosmo Terminal is the funniest, simplest example in GX, but I really respect that you went above and beyond with making an example through X's staff ghosts. And tangentially related - Super Monkey Ball is another game that lives or dies depending whether your analog stick sensitivity and deadzone sucks or not - which is kinda funnt when the engine was reworked for GX. Alright, typed a lot here, but as someone that grew with arcade racers (and FZGX), it's super refreshing to see someone go through those motions as well as this...and that there's people watching these :)
Blasted shame Aerogauge will not be covered as its "up" gimmick is just that and has nearly no meaningful impact on play. *Which is HISTORY CRITICAL to how ARGs developed as a genre.* Aerogauge tried specifically to expand ARGs to an "car go up" revolution, and failed so hard in making meaningful "up" moments that the game was flat out ignored by all. That failure is worth covering. It was a deliberate, genre envelope pushing game. To not cover it *_because its push failed_* is just...disappointing. It makes his list flat out incomplete in my opinion.
@DarkonFullPower I have been wanting to try covering the game myself - as on one hand, I've always thought that it was cool in its ambition with the presentation and how there is SOMETHING with the gameplay if you were to master it (but doing so being obtuse doesn't help the game matters) - stuff like the difficulty increasing the game speed wipeout style and cancelling Boosts to stop the heat rising (which a hidden machine actually requires, as it ALWAYS overheats with one) On the other hand...the way you described AeroGauge "failing" - and I'm not saying that it did, but with how absurdly widespread BACK THEN and even to this day by some was to see that attempt being dismissed as "poor F-Zero clone" because of how the critical mechanic of the game (driftboosts) is both unexplained in-game and not too intuitive to use at all, it actually brings a point on how the game didn't succeed to the point that no other devs have tried making something similar like it (to my knowledge). Didn't help that F-Zero X was already on the way and those comparisons were inevitable. It makes me think of how cool a racer like it would be today - or at least something controlling more intuitive (imagine if that Star Fox Racer leal had been true...), but it's a shame that even the mere concept has been ignored by time since then. I actually found a japanese person that was developing an AeroGauge clone in 2016 through a NND video, and somehow, THAT is the only person I've EVER seen to try making a new AeroGauge like game. Named SFVPC on Twitter, they had a few newer videos from 2022 in their Twitter account, and I actually asked there if their project was still alive - slowly developing but STILL going...so that is legitimately the only hope there is for an AeroGauge like game today - whenever it happens to have a playable demo or something (in which case I will absolutely try it out)... Long text, but AG is sure a topic I enjoy because I grew up with the game many moons ago, and back in 2022 was actually able to beat the Intermediate and Expert difficulties with a few machines. I always found it super cool and yet disappointing that the idea died with the game while no one else (except SFVPC) has EVER tried tackling it again...and more so when the original AeroGauge is Sonic R thin in tracks to play (5 tracks).
@DarkonFullPower And a shorter follow up from my previous message, it would have made sense to cover it before F-Zero X with how it released BEFORE it, but it's probably skipped for good when it was jumped over between videos - so the game being alluded to briefly with the footage was already surprising enough acknowledgement of the game for me. But oh well...at least Rollcage (which isn't strictly antigravity but fits the bill in experimentation and vibes) and ArcRacer (fits the bill in all senses BUT was a relatively recent release that unfortunately wasn't that covered by many) made the cut.
1:56 - 1:58 Although it was best recommended to use an N64 controller against the MC1 staff ghost, I'll still congratulate you for your efforts of beating the record with identical jumper stats (yes, that's what us racers call the setting leaning towards Max Speed).
the high throw of the n64 analog stick helps too, also attaching those things that increase the stick height helps also nowadays using a controller with hall effect sticks (buying console controllers for PC is stupid and buying anything without hall effect is also stupid considering the prices of the GameSir controllers) with the height increasers make f-zero X feel great again
Great explanation on precision, so me having a hard time on virtual console isn't just the time that's passed. Also, thank you for showing Extreme G even though it's not on your list, at least I know where you stand 😂
Love this series so far! Ballistics from Grin in 2001 definitely fits here and is one of the cooler AGRs i played as a kid. It theoretically had no speed limit so if you learned the track you could go faster than anyone could possibly process on reaction.
"No reason not to shift all the way to the left or right in modern racing games" is completely wrong. "Modern" (there are very few modern racers in general nowadays) ARCADE racers like forza horizon and nfs, you're right, but there are only a tiny handful of arcade racers nowadays, on top of that being the norm for them since ps2. Gran turismo, forza motorsport (which sucks but still), the 2 million sim racers that people who've never driven a car suck off daily, they all require good stick control.
@@magicshrooms666 True but not "Officially" Supported in which what Sepi probably arguing. AC needs you to use GamepadFX in which came from modding and goodluck with LFM using it. Even ACC are not that great to be competitive unless you are in lower SA with slower drivers. FM8 smooth steering are also no different with jerking left and right.
I'm surprised that the "Genre" tags on FH4 and FH5 on True Achievements have it as "Simulation Racing" but NOT "Arcade Racing" Knocking over trees/drystone dykes, jumping 1000's of feet, with no damage to the car, REAL realistic, so much like a simulator , sometimes I forget if I'm playing Forza Horizon or if I'm driving in my car.🤥
@@seP4 The only reason why older sim racers are playable with a controller is because of heavy hidden assists on controllers. You simply cannot play a game with complex car simulation with a controller. The reason it works terribly in games like Assetto Corsa is because they didnt both to have said assists because they expect you to use a wheel and only put gamepad support as a token extra. The difference between now and when Gran Turismo 3 was the best selling game on PS2 is that now they expect a non-arcade racer to sell to a few million people who want a serious game, and those people are more likely to drop hundreds on a niche hobby. Whereas racing games were popular enough back then that you could get a huge percentage of the market and you wanted to be accommodating.
The AGR game list he has clearly has GRIP there (it's in the bottom row) - and makes sense it does when you can also see there he also has Rollcage 1 and 2 in there - the games that GRIP was intended to be a spiritual succesor of.
he didnt consider it at first, but after new ships update he included it, used them, realised they're worse than cars and just played with mostly cars on streams xd
It's close enough I'd say. It's futuristic (lorewise it's an evolution of street racing in the future). It's fast. Average speed is like 400 mph or so, and it's possible to break the sound barrier. The last box is gravity-defying. It does this as well. GRIP cars are large four -wheeled tanks that either produce lots of downforce or have magnets, making them able to drive on walls and ceilings. Also the vehicles are the same on top and bottom, so they can flip over and keep going.
The cutoff does feel a little arbitrary given that e.g the extreme G games are not included which have very similar gameplay and setting to some of these, with the only real distinction being that they involve "motorbikes" that have wheels instead of hover vehicles but I guess he had to draw hard line somewhere.
When you mentioned the JogCon I instantly liked the video. I've been saying for years now, the perfect controller would be in the format of an RC Transmitter wheel with FFB. I can't believe it hasn't been done yet
A $150 Elite controller? If it's anything like my Xbox Series Elite 2, that thing came out of the box broken 'New' and GameStop refused to let me return it. I didn't get the warranty because I expected a controller that expensive to last, but didn't do the research to see that I was actually supposed to get 2, get the warranty on both, then constantly send them back until I got one that actually worked properly, hopefully before the warranty expired. I know it's not related to the main video, but you mentioned an Xbox Elite controller and mine has been making me violently angry because I'm too broke at the moment to replace it. Also don't want to deal with the Warranty Return Game
I had to play the warranty roulette game with Microsoft 3 times with my new Elite 2 from Walmart before finally getting a unit that has lasted me 3+ years and going strong still. (Actually paid like $50-$100 for an out-of-warranty exchange on a separate unit too. For that they sent a refurbished unit with a new 90-day warranty or something. Had to send THAT refurb one off after like 30 days but finally wound up with another 2+yr working controller, and at a cheaper starting investment too.)
I recently bought a top of the line Virpil flightstick for space sim, and "steering with my mind" is an excellent way to describe the experience of a really great stick.
The future racing genre really deserves a comeback, racing games have increasingly tended toward boring realism in the past 15ish years, which def alienates everyone who could be into the racing genre who isn't obsessed with real life cars F Zero X imo was the best of all time within the sub genre, with GX being better in a couple ways but worse in others (massive deceleration from mid-air movement, general sega stank emanating from the music and aesthetics)
thats because more people like the realistic racers than scifi, maybe with a cyber punk Renaissance thats kind of creeping up, they can make a come back but currently they don't exist because of sales. now idk if thats because marketing teams are completely incompetent every time, i remember seeing Metroid ads and they were always awful at portraying what actually was the game being advertised. its important to understand the cultural differences around the world and what makes realistic racing games sell well (attempt to sell.) it's like how we scratch our head at fifa selling so well. a very large but different crowd in another corner of the planet, out of sight out of mind if you will
@petercottantail7850 yeah it's definitely a different global culture today than in the late 90's when the genre was popular, but I think it's also due to straight up lack of trying. No big name studios have even thought about attempting to revive the genre in 20 years. There are zero sales because there are zero products. Styles are often cyclical in a way, and things often come back stronger in popularity than they even were in their initial golden age. Like cyberpunk for example, which started in the late 70s, became huge by the mid 80s and was practically declared dead by 96, but it came back in recent years. Or in games like Bomb Rush Cyberfunk, where they blatantly copied the aesthetic and gameplay of a beloved game from 20 years ago, the property owner of which had no interest to reviving. BRC was a huge success because it addressed in an authentic way an existing but wholly underserved demand for exactly the type of game it was. I think the same kind of latent demand for a new F Zero exists, but Nintendo is unwilling to take the risk on actually doing it, I think because at this point the whole genre has been seen as dead, instead of being at its zenith for a potential revival.
Many of these anti grav racing games are missing a replay/cinematic mode. Being able to playback a recorded race and getting different camera angles is how you get more awareness on the game and more coverage on socials. I'd buy it if it did have such features.
If you can't see the inputs or the racing lines what's the point of a replay? Also, it's fine to have I just don't think many people would watch a cinematic version of a game. As someone who likes racing games I'm going to be interested in how it plays and most people who wouldn't play racing games probably aren't going to be sold by it. Also, like the one game I can think of that gets reach from socials is trackmania and that just gets people showing off press forward tracks since they look impressive. But the cool thing about them is the building not the driving because they're taking advantage of the deterministic physics to produce the same outcome everytime. I literally talked to someone who thought the whole game was that which honestly is just bad marketing for a game that's all about self improvement and time trials by and large
@@solsystem1342 Trackmania (all versions, including 2020) has a comprehensive replay editor. They use it for analyzing the paths, racing styles and racing against other "ghost racer replays". It not just for cinematics but I appreciate that it is there.
Kinetica and the XG series (at least XG2) deserve honorable mentions on the timeline. XG isn't strictly anti-grav, but both of these definitely include some anti-gravity maneuvering and high-speed shenanigans
Hey Sepi! I wanted to say thank you for giving love and attention to the F-zero franchise... I genuinely love this game and how you presented it on how it will be unlikely to have another game like this... Side note: Other than the flydigi vader 3 pro, what other controllers can you reccomend for F-zero as well?
Enjoying this series. I haven't really played in this subgenre but always thought it was cool. The last non-sim racing game I enjoyed was Burnout Paradise, you could tell that game was made fun-first. Looking forward to Part 3.
Just a day or so ago a great album came out as a tribute to this genre - Anti Gravity Tournament by Mitch Murder and Pizza Hotline. It might not be as popular as it was, but AG racing will always be one of my favorite kinds of video game.
Thank you. I loved playing F-Zero X on the OG N64 with OG controller. When it came to NSO, i was excited to play again, only, well, I was sucking. I felt like I couldnt stop losing grip and had no control. Thought it was my fault and didnt consider that the controller mattered _that_ much.
F-Zero X is my favourite racing game, and I managed to beat the game on expert difficulty on original hardware, with a huge amount of effort. I couldn't even imagine beating it on master. The joystick differences are probably why the game hasn't felt as good when I've tried to play it on emulator. I consider it a better game than GX because I feel the track design being tighter works perfectly with the game's design and sense of speed, plus I prefer the music and character designs too. I wish nothing more than for Nintendo to make F-Zero X 2 but I feel that even without the joystick issues, it wouldn't be a popular genre and would likely play more like GX unfortunately. Would be super cool to have 30-player multiplayer on those narrow, unforgiving tracks though.
You can get cheap hall effect joystick modules from [yt censors the name of this company] for like a few bucks, and if you're comfortable soldering you can retrofit controllers like the PS4 and XBox. You just have to make sure you get the module that's suited to your controller, because unlike with potentiometers, hall effect sensors have polarity and every controller is slightly different in that regard.
Can we also talk about that killer OST? It's not very often Nintendo includes full-on metal in their soundtracks, but when they do, it goes so mind-bendingly hard! And that's not even mentioning the quality of the MIDI instruments, especially the guitars, which sound so close to the real thing it's almost uncanny!
For similar reasons as the joysticks on the n64 vs modern controllers making X play worse, it's a huge reason why none of the Monkey Ball games after the first two have never felt as good. The precision of those Gamecube controllers is so fine, and Monkey Ball (as well as F-Zero GX, which uses the Monkey Ball 2 engine) respond to the tiniest of movements. It really is incredible, some of those late game levels in 1 and 2 have you walking in the thinnest of curvy and sloped rails, and when your skills were honed you could impart the most delicate adjustments to your poor hamster ball trapped monkey. Doubt this is still true, but at the time, the Monkey Ball games were used by some neurosurgeons for practice and warmups, to build their fine motor precision skills.
2:22 I think you can combat a controller's dead zone's effect on your steering accuracy by also pressing forward on the control stick, rather than simply left/right. This way your controller is never IN the dead zone. I find that this helps even when using an original N64 controller - it's not more accurate but it does give you more physical space to adjust your thumb. One drawback in this game in particular is that pressing forward will aim the nose of the vehicle down while airborne; pressing the control stick down will raise the nose up for longer flight time.
A modern solution to a tick drift is the “Hal effect” controllers. You may have to install them yourselves, but the company has them for pretty much every console!
Imagine having the console which its main controller innovation was the thumbstick actually using the hardware in game changing ways. Racing was revolutionary in the N64: Wave Race, 1080 Snow Boarding, Fzero & Excite Bike. I havent felt a thumbstick that feels better than a fresh N64 one. The position of the thumbstick itself feels better than any other controller. Maybe its having it centered instead of in a side as an aftertaught.
I didn't expect this video to educate me on why I absolutely blow at F-Zero X compared to every other F-Zero game, I thought the ridiculous drift turns were just part of the experience. ... Gonna have to give it a shot without slamming the stick full tilt.
ah, when you said not including "flying vehicles" and you specifically showed Aero Gauge you immediate answered a question that was on the tip of my tongue.
It still confounds me that someone genuinely looked at THAT controller (Seriously, what are those sticks?) and thought "Yep, this'll be perfect to steer an already questionably built submersible"
In a few car racing games if you press the thumbstick all the way over for full lock you'll end up breaking traction and you'll understeer all the way off the track because you're pushing the steer tires past the point of grip (project cars was notorious for that unless you adjusted the steering response).
![Racing's Forgotten Sub-genre [AGR Part 1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rM0zn4egCDM/mqdefault.jpg)
![Racing's Forgotten Sub-genre [AGR Part 1]](/img/tr.png)
Part 3: ua-cam.com/video/x8bwFfN-DVY/v-deo.html
Find all released parts here: ua-cam.com/play/PL8KERPlOHXY8AtUIlWSJ6Vi2IsRCqMA6c.html
oh man please make a rating list of the best 3rd party controller options for PC. I currently have an 8Bitdo but the joystick is already drifting above that 10% deadzone and its ANNOYING so i might as well buy one like the one you mentioned
check out gamepadla
@@seP4 We are waiting for your video on Iranian AAA games...
@@carolinalipachakybaloch4818 Dude stop
"....good job thrustbastards for inventing TRIGGER DRIFT"
😂😂😂
I just want to correct something, the N64 joystick was OPTICAL, not Hall Effect. It avoids many of the normal potentiometer stick issues, but does have it's own
The reliance on line of sight can cause issues if the wheels that pass in front of the optical sensors get gunked up, causing artificial drift, or missing values which shortens the stick's virtual range.
Yeah idk where they got the hall effect, as that's relatively new, with gc controller mod kits actualling adding it to the original gc gamepad.
Edit: after watching the video he never claimed they were Hall effect but that new 3rd party gamepads do so nothing to correct 🤷🏽♂️
@ yeah, but he talked about them together so I thought it was a good idea to clarify. Also Hall effect is not even remotely new, it’s just finally having its time to shine
@@PAPO1990 Yet again another thing you didn't need to correct bc i never made such a claim 🤦🏽♂️ 🤷🏽♂️
@@Ebani you said “as that’s relatively new” regarding Hall effect… I might be missing remembering, but there are Hall effect sticks that PRE DATE potentiometer based sticks, they are old
Developer of ArcRacer here, which I see is on your big list of AGRs; thanks for making this series! It's nice to see the genre getting some love, I'll be watching with interest.
Really been enjoying ArcRacer, excellent work 👍.
what pisses me off most about F-Zero X is that Nintendo's official re-releases are, demonstrably, far and away the worst ways to play this.
The joystick sensitivity is absurdly strong, even putting aside the fact that their modern sticks have stick drift, and have had it since the Wii.
The N64 used hard plastic for its' stick, with some minor weight to the stick itself. That means it can't snap to full lock without a bit of effort, but by constrast it ALSO makes small adjustments much, MUCH easier!
If you're not lucky enough to have original hardware - Grab a PC emulator, set the stick senstivity to an upper deadzone of 15%. That will make your maximum range well within the game's much smaller boundary, and it plays like butter once you do that!
The switch version also runs at incorrect cpu cycles so it has a ton of slowdown that is not present in the N64 version, it's infuriating!
The reason why the stick sensitivity is so strong is because the N64 controller could only reach 66% maximum output. This meant the game was programmed to see any input as 33% higher than it really was. Emulators (good ones anyway) let you fix this by reducing the maximum range of the sticks to 66% so it mimics the N64 input. Nintendo didn't care to do this.
yup zero shits given by Nintendo. The vc wii version and wiiU version both both jittery with no subtle inbetween range detected. Same with Starfox. It also annoys me when channels review these rereleases and don't ever seem to notice to massive difference and it allows Nintendo to keep dropping the ball so far as these games. Same with Perfect Dark and Goldeneye when that released again for xbox 360 and then xbox one. N64 controller was clearly very different and simply remapping it doesn't represent it's accuracy at all. Such a shame
Yup my first exp with F-Zero X was on the Wii VC.
When I played the game on an actual 64 for the first time I was surprised that the cursor on the machine settings screen wasn't immediately flying off with the touch of the stick.
Here’s hoping you’ll review SkyRoads
I feel like the reason they abandoned the Hall Effect controllers is due to cost. Why spend 50 cents on something when you can spend 8 cents on something that works roughly the same way? It's the same reason cars don't have physical controls on them anymore.
Planned obsolescence is another reason.
I read this entire comment with sepi's voice. Both phrasing and expressions match perfectly lol.
Wait, cars doesnt have physical buttons anymore? Wtf
Cheaper but more prone to failure 😞
Gullible consumers will hail tesla as being modern & minimalist, when they're being sold no buttons + glued on ipad
When I was really little, I played this while holding the stick all the way up (because that’s what worked in Mario Kart 64) but if you don’t let go when you go off a ramp, you force your vehicle downward and die every time. It took me longer than I’m proud to admit to learn this lesson as a kid that there was a correlation to what I was doing and to why I was dying, but it’s something that I’ve never forgotten. So keep that in mind if you drive that style.
F-Zero X also had the same lead programmer as Wave Race 64 and, as far as I know, no other racing game afterwards. The guy honestly seemed like an unsung genius. Heck, I'd even go far as to say that despite the hardware issues, the N64 era was Nintendo at their peak. Don't get me wrong, I really like the Gamecube too, but I think people tend to over praise it a bit too much and tend to forget that there were a lot of growing pains early on in its lifespan and outside of Melee and GX, a lot of crappy sequels.
Agreed. The N64 was limited in its library, but any list of the top games of all time will be dominated by N64 games and for good reason. Agree with the critique of GameCube, as well. There were a few really good games there like Melee and especially the Metroid Prime games, but a lot of what it got just wasn't as good as the N64. Controversial take, but I feel the same way with the PS1 to PS2; out of the ones I've played, PS2 sequels just felt like a downgrade from the PS1. Lots of franchises were just better on the PS1 from the Xeno- series to Resident Evil to Spyro and lots of others.
@@latt.qcd9221 I never understood the hype for the RE series. Silent Hill did horror and terror much better. With that said, the PS2 was gloriously better than PS1 but I'm biased because I played all of the genres that I was looking forward to on the PS2 (except Twisted Metal which pretty much went downhill since TM2).
Gamecube sucked compared to the N64. The N64 was truly revolutionary and I'd say as revolutionary for gaming as much as the PS1. If it wasn't for these two consoles existing next to each other at the time, entire generations of players would have never seen the light of true 3D gaming in the modern era and they were the first ones to experience that.
@@BleedForTheWorld I just recently played the first three Silent Hill games -- working on Silent Hill 4 atm -- and I definitely enjoyed the way it did many things compared to RE. RE focuses way more on "strategy" for its scares while Silent Hill focuses way more on "atmosphere" for its scares. I definitely enjoy the latter more for my horror games.
Personally, I preferred SH 1 over SH 2 and SH 3, with SH 2 being my least favorite. With all of the massive amounts of praise that SH 2 got, I was really excited to play it, but I just couldn't get into it, and it felt like the usual PS1 to PS2 "downgrade" that I've usually experienced. It didn't really feel like horror to me, either. I could definitely see the inspiration from Jacob's Ladder throughout it, but I'd just rather watch the movie for that "melancholic" horror experience.
PS2 still has some excellent titles, though, and it's definitely one of the better systems. Most of the retro games I'm currently in the middle of are PS2.
@@BleedForTheWorld Yup, I'd have to agree, even though I still like the GameCube. N64 and PS1 were some of the most important consoles. Most of the best games, as well as most of my favorite games, were on those two consoles along with the Super Nintendo.
My parents wonder why I'm so specific about what controller I consider, and why I don't even consider 1st party ones, and one with swappable cages/housing
I was using the Steam Controller for most games due to 0 drift when disabling deadzones. People never understand this but what I don't understand is how they can play without constantly overshooting. It's nearly impossible to learn by heart where the exact deadzone range is
I'm glad you're doing this series, very few people into racing games as a genre talk about ag racing. I'm also happy to see the Redout games on that massive timeline you show, they're some of my favorite racing games of all time and it's awesome to see someone recognize them.
Your channel is one of the few that speaks the plain truth without the need of marketing speak or some other type of BS.
Hope you see this comment and get the message that we love your content.
Wish there was a way to donate some coffee cups to you.
i do thanks
HUGE ANIME BREASTS
He's one of the few channels that say the things you agree with.
F Zero X is a joy dispenser. Thanks for giving it the recognition it deserves. :)
Fun fact: the controllers you showed with the spinning with force feedback and the one where you turn or steer twisting are made by Namco for the PS1 and PS2. Shocking how old some stuff is but still holds up today or it becomes the best way to play this games. Nice video!! btw
I actually used to make fun of that awkward and strange setup when I was a kid, and got to play with one recently for Outrun if my memory isn't faulty (it was that or Virtua Racer and I don't think that was it.) It's not intuitive, and does take a bit of learning to get decent, but what surprised me was the *lack of input lag,* meanwhile if you tried a similar wheel-and-pedal setup which was 10x more expensive there was enough of a delay to be an irritation.
The weird twisty pad I enjoyed. I don't usually like "stupid peripherals" because of Nintendo and their constant drive to sell us more plastic trash. Namco did *really* good on those.
I have no idea how to *fix or repair* them though. If i have a damaged N64 pad you can sometimes find third-party sticks to replace worn ones; and I can always find a new "stick" as long as the housing and casing are good, but I have no idea how to replace a *rotating* pad. I know more about *fine-tuning the laser reader for a gamecube* then I do about those pads.
Linus Tech Tips reviewed the twisting controller and complained about the dead zones and inaccuracy, though did say that at the time of release, it would have been amazing. As in, it doesn't hold up to modern standards.
@@CouchPotator Yeah say that to XBOX, Sony and nintendo. Sega also made the first damm Hall effect joystick on 1998
@@CouchPotator The Negcon is always going to have some play in it, just because it has a gear-driven mechanism. Namco was probably aware of this, but the gearing mechanism provided resistance and allowed a long travel in a compact device. Longer travel allows the player to more easily make precise inputs that aren't at the extreme ranges of movement, as does resistance to movement(resistance also makes it easier to maintain a consistent input)
For N64 I'd highly recommend the Ultra Racer controller. There is also a PS1 version, but for whatever reason they made the trigger on it only single action rather the dual action, which makes it far less useful.
Oh, when you go over other AGRs, make special mention of Star Wars Episode 1 Racer. Due to it being a movie tie-in, it's actually still to this day the best selling AGR ever produced.
8:20 row 3, column 8
@@Dargonhuman
Simply showing it in an array of boxart is not the same as actually talking about the game.
Perhaps you mean "despite it being a move tie-in" rather than "due to it being a movie tie-in." Games based on or tied to movies are almost always terrible. Star Wars Episode I Racer, however, was one of the best AGR games produced, and certainly one of the best Star Wars games up there with Star Wars Rogue Squadron and Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic.
@@latt.qcd9221
I mean what I said. As good as it was, I highly doubt EP1R wouldn't have sold anywhere near as well if it wasn't for it being a Star Wars game. I have no clue why, since I can't see how zooming around at breakneck speeds in a hover vehicle doesn't appeal to someone, but for some reason AGRs just don't typically sell well regardless of how good they are.
@@latt.qcd9221 Star Wars was, up until recently, a franchise with unusually good movie tie-ins though. Rogue Squadron, Ep1 racer, the Tie Fighter games, dark forces, the original battlefronts... a lot of truly great games in the IP.
This looks actually like one of the more thoughtful AGRs, which makes me wonder: are you going to Rank them at the end aswell? Im sure youtube loves rankings
there will at least be a spreadsheet with all games and my rankings
The thing about F-Zero X on N64 was because the sticks were optical sensors, not potentiometers.
Potentiometers are the cheapest way to make your controller's sensors. This is the often standard stick sensor in your typical PS and XB controllers, and even in the joycons.
Hall Effect sensors are the rising new standard which is related to the electromagnetic sensors known to exist in the control sticks for the Sega Dreamcast. These modern hall effect sensors however were popularized and made mainstream by GuliKit, and these sensors do not risk drifting.
Optical sensors: These are EXTREMELY precise! Like Hall effect sensors, these sticks are often extremely precise, and if they were made of metal, they would last much longer, but sadly, the optical sensor sticks popular in N64 controllers were made of plastic to cut the costs, which in turn made them prone to fail not by the sensor's fault, but by the fault of the fact of wear and tear over frequent use.
Microswitch arcade sticks: These sticks use microswitches, and are used in arcade machines and fight sticks that offer the arcade authentic feeling.
F-Zero X made optimal use of the N64's optical sensor control stick, and it's precise nature. THAT is what makes F-Zero X control so well.
Mario 64 was another game highly tuned to the optical sensors. There really just is no substitute for an original N64 controller when playing that game.
"Hall effects are the rising new standard" when in this video he showed sega using them since 94 lol, the other companies just take us for fools.
That tidbit of using hall effect joysticks instead of regular joysticks
I should get one (not just for X, but also GX), i never knew that these joysticks could help with your accuracy by tons, thank you
7:37 "Setting up the emulator requires too much button clicking"
You just earned yourself a like and a subscribe
Counterpoint to "no reason not to push the stick all the way": Trackmania. In it, turning too far can cost you more time than you gain from precise, tight, and smooth turns. It's a noticeable difference when using the Rally and Desert cars, but not as noticable on the Stadium car, which is why Stadium is more popular (as you can play it with a keyboard and not be too far behind the joystick/wheel users in precision); and nowadays they've also added Action Keys for kb users to steer at 20/40/60/80% of the maximum steer.
Yeah, the whole "most racing games only need digital steering" thing was so incredibly wrong that I can only assume it was said specifically to provoke corrections..
Many games have speed proportional steering, which makes digital/full stick movements less of an issue, though even playing with keyboard I preter to turn it off and just repeatedly tap the button to not turn fully.
Huh, those action keys sound interesting. I've sometimes thought about an idea to make racing games more keyboard friendly by making a row of keys correspond to different turn sensitivities, so you would slide your finger along the keyboard to turn. I always figured it would be too annoying to be worth the benefit in precision. Sounds like someone actually did it.
@@CptJistuce They do have a point though the assists thrown in make up for such lousy controller sticks are way way too obnoxiously powerful in nearly every game, to the point you can be competitive with effectively binary steering as long as the game thinks you're using a controller so the silent never mentioned anywhere and not possible to disable manually 'make up for the garbage gamepad stick assists' are enabled... There are a few outliers that still really demand the player actually does all the work and thus are really not very good if playable at all without a flight stick, wheel, or very very good gamepad stick, and a few that manage to have such aggressive assists always on so the game becomes inconsistent and virtually unplayable with a wheel... But on the whole racing games have lost that semi-realisitic simulator and high skill ceiling by design in favour of being more accessible to all - I keep thinking I might get into the new trackmania as one of the few remaining outliers, as it would be nice to have a new racing game with new tracks to try etc, but I don't really like the business model and so far that and the fact I've had to pack up the wheel and not found space to set it up again yet has put me off.
>which is why Stadium is more popular
Uh, no that's not why stadium is the popular environment, it's because it was the free environment for like years on end (You've also got 5 different versions of stadium too in release order TMN ESWC, TMU, TMNF/UF, TM2:Stadium, and the newest one which is just called Trackmania), which also meant that there was a lot more exploration into the mechanics and physics of the Stadium car over the others.
And that's why Steam Controller (press [f] to pay respects) came with touchpads! (Also in Steam, for every controller that it supports, you can turn off the deadzone and change your sticks sensitivity curve)
Well no, the Steam Controller came with touchpads, because GabeN thought a touchpad was better than a control stick for aiming, due to it being more like a mouse. It's not, you were better using a stick to aim OR the gyro which they didn't promote, because they thought touchpad! There's a reason people connect mice to laptops, it's because they're more precise than a touchpad.
@@lmcgregoruk Not really true on so many fronts... For one there are plenty of people out there now who can't use a regular mouse nearly as precisely and comfortably as they can the touchpad now - they didn't grow up using a mouse, but have lots of time on touch devices... Also the trackpad on the steam controller is great when you learn how to use it, and set it up the way you like for that style of game. And that is essential for bringing PC gaming to the console gamer market - you just flat out can't play many games on a regular controller at all, but the Steam Controller will let you, might even make it easier to play than the original KB/mouse control!
For myself in the aiming department it has to be Trackball mode with zero friction combined with the gyro - way way faster flicks so its almost like having the turn 180 right now button some games have had, but with actual choice on how far you jump (assuming the framerate is good enough) and still got the potential for really really high precision as with the gyro playing assist and the relatively large trackpad with custom curves...
@@lmcgregoruk naa, it was more accurate. People just were not used to it.
@@SlyNine I'll believe you when I see a single fps pro use a touchpad.
I had the original version of this game released in the US (no expansion) and beat it about every way possible (all circuits with all characters and all difficulties). My favorite thing about this game is by far the soundtrack followed closely by the framerate. One thing I would add to your video though, when sliding / drifting (if I recall you can hold Z and R to force a drift) the Acceleration / Speed setting makes a huge difference - Vehicles favoring speed slow down considerably when drifting while vehicles favoring acceleration actually speed quite a bit when drifting. This is extremely useful in tight spaces where there are tons of racers in a large group as a spin attack can take them out quickly.
Acceleration / Speed also affects your vehicles ability to fly - High speed does not fly too well while you can fly much further with high acceleration.
Great video though, F-Zero X is one of my favorite games ever!
The f zero expansion kit also has three new vehicles, the Super Falcon, Super Stingray and Super Cat
I never emulated this game so I'm glad this video made me aware of this before I emulated it.
I wonder how many people encountered this problem when playing on Nintendo's emulated release of F-Zero X
probably everyone with stock joycons. most people end up blaming the game and it's not even their fault
@@seP4That's honestly the only monkey paw possible with an hypothetical GX remake (unless they slap the controls hard to compensate or they are just doing a new game) because the difference on quality AND durability between the GC's stick and the joycons is huge
As someone who grew up on the WII VC release of F-Zero X:
Nintendo has NEVER been able to correctly emulate their own joystick. It has always been absurdly over-sensitive, even by the standards of a modern controller, *let alone compared to the ORIGINAL controller that the game expects you to use.*
I couldn't even beat the 2nd cup on novice difficulty, even having gone back to the VC version for comparison after I 100% finished the original cart. Having now compared the two releases, and playing the N64 religiously with a 4th controller we never touched as kids, it feels like it's fresh out of the box and the difference is night and day.
Unless you can buy a hall effect joystick, you simply cannot steer, and that is by design.
Throwing the joystick to the edges isn't a 90-degree turn of the wheel in F-Zero; it's more akin to yanking the steering wheel all 900 degrees to full lock.
@@ArcadeStriker GC's stick was significantly more durable, so people picking up a used GC controller will have virtually the same experience. Unfortunately, it was never a very good experience because the GC's stick was too sensitive and imprecise for a series like F-Zero.
@@ArcadeStriker The joy con are the worst Nintendo "sticks" bar none(the New/3ds' circlepad is second place, but even it is not as absolutely dire), but I don't think it would be much of an issue. Unlike N64 games, GC games work just fine with any modern controlstick and people are already coping hard with the stick drift to the point it can be considered an added challenge to play with it(I definitly think of it as such, even if just to make the wait for Switch 2 less painful because I am not willing to get a second pair of joy cons or go a week or more without Switch for official repairs).
Of course the Dreamcast fixed the Stick Drift Issue *Decades* ago... It was ahead of it's Time
Oh and the Soundtrack of F-Zero X *Rocks HARD!*
Stick drift wasn't an issue decades ago, because we used better potentiometers.
Also, the Dreamcast thumbstick was doing it because the Saturn 3D Controller's analog pad used Hall effect sensors. I believe the Saturn did it so that the analog pad had even resistance in all directions instead of being biased towards the four cardinal directions. (Their analog pad was very thoughtful in its design, and I wish it was a design that won.)
The PS1 and PS2 also used potentiometers and weren't prone to stick drift the way modern controllers are. PS2 controllers would constantly recalibrate themselves to solve the issue. Obviously, after years of usage they'd still drift because the actual mechanical parts like the spring would deteriorate and give you an even worse form of drift because your stick would never center properly again. The N64 was particularly atrocious when it came to this, too. I can't wait 'til the people falling for all this stupid marketing and buying cheap chinese controller after cheap chinese controller with hall effect or TMR sticks starts encountering this, lol.
@@Klefth Yeah, the N64 stick is weird. I remain shocked that Nintendo didn't realize they had two plastics that would abrade in direct contact. The tiniest of nylon bearings would make the N64 story very different.
Literally last gen was not as bad as what we currently have going on. It took years for consoles like the WiiU to start lightly drifting. Now we have strong drift after just a few months with almost any controller made by anyone. It sux.
@@CptJistuce it really wouldn't. The only thing that would have made the N64 story better was more games, its was laughably bad how few titles it received because they didn't stick a CD drive in there.
Okay hear me out, you really solved a great mystery for me now, years after it happened.
When I was a child/teen, F-Zero X was absolutely my favorite game and I used to be really really good at it. So naturally, when I saw it on any emulator, like on the Wii or so, later in my life, I was super excited to play it again at some friend's places. That happened a few times and every time I got utterly disappointed when actually playing it, because I performed so badly. I had no idea why that was, but it really bothered me to no end. I had a feeling it must be the controller - I always held it in a very peculiar way on the original hardware and I knew the inputs had to be really precise, but no matter what I tried on other consoles, I couldn't really steer properly.
So, now I know why it happened. I am really really happy to have understood it years later. Thank you!
Fantastically well made video. Topic specific, no rambling, covers all the issues and mentions why under 10 minutes.
The fact that the N64 controller is perhaps the most prone to failure (from before PS4 at least) makes this be like salt on the wounds
fr I've had four N64 controllers and not a single one of them with a good joystick.
God I love this game so much. It's such a labour of love and I'm so sad it got overlooked by most players at the time.
Nice video (I haven't watched it yet)
His is one of the very few channels where i click the like button without being reminded or having even finished the opening minutes
Npc
LONG LIVE FREEDOM DAMMMMMMIT
Hey Sepi! Just wanted to let you know that you're on of the very few people I have notifications enabled for, because you're just an honest youtuber with a clear vision of what you want to achieve with your videos. The kind of content you make is very hard to come by nowadays, so thank you for being a real creator!
i rly love how u tell about history of this games and how game feels. waiting for next vid❤
8:22 *HUH?!* Beyond the "can stay up" aspect of Aerogauge, every single control and handling aspect was my BENCHMARK for ARG. I was specifically excited for its spotlight in your series.
I'd love some aerogauge review T.T
is Kirby Air Ride considered an AntiGravity Racer ? I think it should be, and I'd love to hear you talk about it !
Insanely fun game
It's kind of it's own thing, really. Closest alternative I know of is Sonic Riders, both kind of their own sub-genre
It's more like a hoverboard racer
@@Linkdouble0zero And both seriously deserve reviews. Two of my long-time favorite games, right there. Lots of fun in the way they handle things.
A crazy, genius, one button gem.
I've tried hooking my n64 to a modern display with minimal lag and compared it to the switch version of f-zero. Both were hard to control. I even used a n64 controller adapter for the switch. I was able to beat the Joker cup on master on both systems but it wasn't fun. F-Zero X is best played on a CRT TV. The lag free experience is absolutely critical to make frame perfect maneuvers and prevent over steering and loosing grip. It also helps with keeping your drifts tight and stay at maximum speed. If your drifting angle is off by a degree it loses speed. Being able to instantly react to the machines reaction to your input is what makes this game fun.
Noice. I've always loved F-Zero X, and I didn't even know it had an upgrade. Good vid man.
Bought the NSO N64 controller just for this one and was so disappointed, the joystick is basically fake. The real N64 stick was so precise, it was a joy to find the sweet spot to turn without slipping...
did you use a third party emulator to play it or not? because minus the lack of optical measure for the inputs the stick is otherwise built almost the same. I ask which you played because the nsp emulation is downright horrible, with a ton of issues and a shocking amount of lag even after they claim to have fixed it ages ago.
If you're gonna play n64 with an nso controller try connecting it to PC to compare howitzer played with more accurate emulation, you might be surprised
@@dooplon5083To add to this - there's a pretty good video by Dubesinhower comparing the original N64, NSO, and 8bitdo controllers on an original N64. Side by side comparisons within a joystick testing tool showed both Nintendo joysticks being near identical with the NSO version having a slightly larger range.
He also did a "tip toe test" in Mario 64 where the NSO controller seemed to have similar if not better control than the original, most likely because it was less worn in. The 8bitdo Gamecube style thumbstick performed the worst of the three.
@@kylegusek not surprising lol. I love yhe gamecubeb and its stick is great but the n64 games that use a stick were not designed for it at all lol. It's like trying to pilot a plane with your feet despite having functional hands, you can try it but don't be surprised when something screws up lol
Lol, the NSO controller is so identical that it shares the same friction issue(Basically, parts rub together internally on usage and that causes damage, meaning that the joystick literally destroys itself over time).
@lpfan4491 It's definitely a concern, much more if you're frantically palming it in heavy Mario Party sessions. I haven't seen any comments about actual degradation yet, and mine have been great so far. Been thinking about adding some grease for preventative measure. From what I've read thumbsticks are the same but bowls aren't, so we'll probably have to wait 5-10 years to see how these hold up before anyone cares to make replacement parts - if they're even popular/common enough.
His custom made vehicle was the Delta Flyer from Star Trek Voyager.
I played with a controller that had a deead zone on the outside of the joystick, you could never go full left of full rigth and it was perfect for this game.
The reason X is my favourite f zero is the sliding out system is very predictable but punishing so I get a kick out of that, plus the side attack can't be done every 2 nanoseconds unlike it's gamecube successor, and also I can emulate it on everything I own instead of only my desktop pc for gx
I played this game in 2nd grade.
18 years later the nostalgy watching this feels pretty great.
I can remember that we made it until level 6.
I'm not surprised it can handle 30 racers at 60 fps, the textures are as muddy as ever, racers all are either tiny models or have barely any pilygons, the tracks are long, barren mostly obscured by fog and include all kinds of twists and turns that there's bound to be plenty of developer tricks at play to keep the game running smoothly, it all comes together in a delightful package in my opinion :)
Yeah, because it was the 90s, and Nintendo have always been the kings of "less graphics, more gameplay"
I try to explain the joystick to people, and they can't wrap their head around it.😅 growing up with it you DEFINITELY feel the difference on a playstation or xbox controller
That newer isn't necessarily better is a seemingly impossible concept to grasp for many people.
Even the older playstation controllers are much better, I'm always impressed how much more precise my Dualshock 3 is than any controller that came after it
Oh shit, Arc Racer (AGR games list - at the top row because it is a recent game) and AeroGauge (the game when "not hovercrafts" is said and there's a flying orange machine shown) cameos
Definitely will be looking forward to how much further you delve into these games with that chunky list :)
And enjoyed that bit about analog stick precision for racers - there's many racers that I enjoy but need a GC or X360 controller to play in the best way - most are because they were designed for arcades (so...a wheel), but X and GX definitely can be highlighted as console-made racers that also demand that tou have a quality analog stick and precision in your thumb to go with it.
Cosmo Terminal is the funniest, simplest example in GX, but I really respect that you went above and beyond with making an example through X's staff ghosts. And tangentially related - Super Monkey Ball is another game that lives or dies depending whether your analog stick sensitivity and deadzone sucks or not - which is kinda funnt when the engine was reworked for GX.
Alright, typed a lot here, but as someone that grew with arcade racers (and FZGX), it's super refreshing to see someone go through those motions as well as this...and that there's people watching these :)
Blasted shame Aerogauge will not be covered as its "up" gimmick is just that and has nearly no meaningful impact on play. *Which is HISTORY CRITICAL to how ARGs developed as a genre.*
Aerogauge tried specifically to expand ARGs to an "car go up" revolution, and failed so hard in making meaningful "up" moments that the game was flat out ignored by all.
That failure is worth covering.
It was a deliberate, genre envelope pushing game. To not cover it *_because its push failed_* is just...disappointing. It makes his list flat out incomplete in my opinion.
@DarkonFullPower I have been wanting to try covering the game myself - as on one hand, I've always thought that it was cool in its ambition with the presentation and how there is SOMETHING with the gameplay if you were to master it (but doing so being obtuse doesn't help the game matters) - stuff like the difficulty increasing the game speed wipeout style and cancelling Boosts to stop the heat rising (which a hidden machine actually requires, as it ALWAYS overheats with one)
On the other hand...the way you described AeroGauge "failing" - and I'm not saying that it did, but with how absurdly widespread BACK THEN and even to this day by some was to see that attempt being dismissed as "poor F-Zero clone" because of how the critical mechanic of the game (driftboosts) is both unexplained in-game and not too intuitive to use at all, it actually brings a point on how the game didn't succeed to the point that no other devs have tried making something similar like it (to my knowledge). Didn't help that F-Zero X was already on the way and those comparisons were inevitable.
It makes me think of how cool a racer like it would be today - or at least something controlling more intuitive (imagine if that Star Fox Racer leal had been true...), but it's a shame that even the mere concept has been ignored by time since then.
I actually found a japanese person that was developing an AeroGauge clone in 2016 through a NND video, and somehow, THAT is the only person I've EVER seen to try making a new AeroGauge like game. Named SFVPC on Twitter, they had a few newer videos from 2022 in their Twitter account, and I actually asked there if their project was still alive - slowly developing but STILL going...so that is legitimately the only hope there is for an AeroGauge like game today - whenever it happens to have a playable demo or something (in which case I will absolutely try it out)...
Long text, but AG is sure a topic I enjoy because I grew up with the game many moons ago, and back in 2022 was actually able to beat the Intermediate and Expert difficulties with a few machines. I always found it super cool and yet disappointing that the idea died with the game while no one else (except SFVPC) has EVER tried tackling it again...and more so when the original AeroGauge is Sonic R thin in tracks to play (5 tracks).
@DarkonFullPower And a shorter follow up from my previous message, it would have made sense to cover it before F-Zero X with how it released BEFORE it, but it's probably skipped for good when it was jumped over between videos - so the game being alluded to briefly with the footage was already surprising enough acknowledgement of the game for me. But oh well...at least Rollcage (which isn't strictly antigravity but fits the bill in experimentation and vibes) and ArcRacer (fits the bill in all senses BUT was a relatively recent release that unfortunately wasn't that covered by many) made the cut.
1:56 - 1:58 Although it was best recommended to use an N64 controller against the MC1 staff ghost, I'll still congratulate you for your efforts of beating the record with identical jumper stats (yes, that's what us racers call the setting leaning towards Max Speed).
Loving the series so far! I loved "AGRs" and played a ton of them! Jet Moto, Wipeout, Hi Octane, Aero Gauge, just to name a few.
the high throw of the n64 analog stick helps too, also attaching those things that increase the stick height helps
also nowadays using a controller with hall effect sticks (buying console controllers for PC is stupid and buying anything without hall effect is also stupid considering the prices of the GameSir controllers) with the height increasers make f-zero X feel great again
Bitch please, Steam has driver support for nearly all controllers under the sun. You can use whatever controller you want on PC.
YOOO IS THAT EXTREME G I SAW, you're a real one bro
Epic video!
It wasn't until I checked out your channel that I realized I've seen several of your other videos. Subbed 🔔
Great explanation on precision, so me having a hard time on virtual console isn't just the time that's passed. Also, thank you for showing Extreme G even though it's not on your list, at least I know where you stand 😂
The best f zero x video ive ever seen! Great humor and very interesting
Love this series so far! Ballistics from Grin in 2001 definitely fits here and is one of the cooler AGRs i played as a kid. It theoretically had no speed limit so if you learned the track you could go faster than anyone could possibly process on reaction.
"No reason not to shift all the way to the left or right in modern racing games" is completely wrong. "Modern" (there are very few modern racers in general nowadays) ARCADE racers like forza horizon and nfs, you're right, but there are only a tiny handful of arcade racers nowadays, on top of that being the norm for them since ps2. Gran turismo, forza motorsport (which sucks but still), the 2 million sim racers that people who've never driven a car suck off daily, they all require good stick control.
very few builds in fm or fh benefit from smooth steering, and no one close to high level uses gamepad in sim racing, as the support is often not good
@@seP4There are plenty of high level controller players on Assetto Corsa
@@magicshrooms666 True but not "Officially" Supported in which what Sepi probably arguing. AC needs you to use GamepadFX in which came from modding and goodluck with LFM using it. Even ACC are not that great to be competitive unless you are in lower SA with slower drivers. FM8 smooth steering are also no different with jerking left and right.
I'm surprised that the "Genre" tags on FH4 and FH5 on True Achievements have it as "Simulation Racing" but NOT "Arcade Racing" Knocking over trees/drystone dykes, jumping 1000's of feet, with no damage to the car, REAL realistic, so much like a simulator , sometimes I forget if I'm playing Forza Horizon or if I'm driving in my car.🤥
@@seP4 The only reason why older sim racers are playable with a controller is because of heavy hidden assists on controllers.
You simply cannot play a game with complex car simulation with a controller. The reason it works terribly in games like Assetto Corsa is because they didnt both to have said assists because they expect you to use a wheel and only put gamepad support as a token extra.
The difference between now and when Gran Turismo 3 was the best selling game on PS2 is that now they expect a non-arcade racer to sell to a few million people who want a serious game, and those people are more likely to drop hundreds on a niche hobby. Whereas racing games were popular enough back then that you could get a huge percentage of the market and you wanted to be accommodating.
I think its hilarious that you chose the exact controller ive been using for years lol. The vayder 3 pro is just like that.
So... where GRIP lands into that spectrum.
Yeah, it has ground vehicles, but it has Anti-grav vehicles, it's fast paced and it's futuristic as hell
The AGR game list he has clearly has GRIP there (it's in the bottom row) - and makes sense it does when you can also see there he also has Rollcage 1 and 2 in there - the games that GRIP was intended to be a spiritual succesor of.
he didnt consider it at first, but after new ships update he included it, used them, realised they're worse than cars and just played with mostly cars on streams xd
It's close enough I'd say. It's futuristic (lorewise it's an evolution of street racing in the future). It's fast. Average speed is like 400 mph or so, and it's possible to break the sound barrier. The last box is gravity-defying. It does this as well. GRIP cars are large four -wheeled tanks that either produce lots of downforce or have magnets, making them able to drive on walls and ceilings. Also the vehicles are the same on top and bottom, so they can flip over and keep going.
The cutoff does feel a little arbitrary given that e.g the extreme G games are not included which have very similar gameplay and setting to some of these, with the only real distinction being that they involve "motorbikes" that have wheels instead of hover vehicles but I guess he had to draw hard line somewhere.
When you mentioned the JogCon I instantly liked the video. I've been saying for years now, the perfect controller would be in the format of an RC Transmitter wheel with FFB. I can't believe it hasn't been done yet
A $150 Elite controller? If it's anything like my Xbox Series Elite 2, that thing came out of the box broken 'New' and GameStop refused to let me return it. I didn't get the warranty because I expected a controller that expensive to last, but didn't do the research to see that I was actually supposed to get 2, get the warranty on both, then constantly send them back until I got one that actually worked properly, hopefully before the warranty expired.
I know it's not related to the main video, but you mentioned an Xbox Elite controller and mine has been making me violently angry because I'm too broke at the moment to replace it. Also don't want to deal with the Warranty Return Game
I had to play the warranty roulette game with Microsoft 3 times with my new Elite 2 from Walmart before finally getting a unit that has lasted me 3+ years and going strong still. (Actually paid like $50-$100 for an out-of-warranty exchange on a separate unit too. For that they sent a refurbished unit with a new 90-day warranty or something. Had to send THAT refurb one off after like 30 days but finally wound up with another 2+yr working controller, and at a cheaper starting investment too.)
I recently bought a top of the line Virpil flightstick for space sim, and "steering with my mind" is an excellent way to describe the experience of a really great stick.
0:50 R.I.P FH4 2018-2024
Haven't watched part 2 yet, but with part 1 you addicted me to WipEout.
The future racing genre really deserves a comeback, racing games have increasingly tended toward boring realism in the past 15ish years, which def alienates everyone who could be into the racing genre who isn't obsessed with real life cars
F Zero X imo was the best of all time within the sub genre, with GX being better in a couple ways but worse in others (massive deceleration from mid-air movement, general sega stank emanating from the music and aesthetics)
thats because more people like the realistic racers than scifi, maybe with a cyber punk Renaissance thats kind of creeping up, they can make a come back but currently they don't exist because of sales. now idk if thats because marketing teams are completely incompetent every time, i remember seeing Metroid ads and they were always awful at portraying what actually was the game being advertised.
its important to understand the cultural differences around the world and what makes realistic racing games sell well (attempt to sell.)
it's like how we scratch our head at fifa selling so well. a very large but different crowd in another corner of the planet, out of sight out of mind if you will
@petercottantail7850 yeah it's definitely a different global culture today than in the late 90's when the genre was popular, but I think it's also due to straight up lack of trying. No big name studios have even thought about attempting to revive the genre in 20 years. There are zero sales because there are zero products. Styles are often cyclical in a way, and things often come back stronger in popularity than they even were in their initial golden age. Like cyberpunk for example, which started in the late 70s, became huge by the mid 80s and was practically declared dead by 96, but it came back in recent years. Or in games like Bomb Rush Cyberfunk, where they blatantly copied the aesthetic and gameplay of a beloved game from 20 years ago, the property owner of which had no interest to reviving. BRC was a huge success because it addressed in an authentic way an existing but wholly underserved demand for exactly the type of game it was. I think the same kind of latent demand for a new F Zero exists, but Nintendo is unwilling to take the risk on actually doing it, I think because at this point the whole genre has been seen as dead, instead of being at its zenith for a potential revival.
Kirby Air Ride is definitely an antigrav racer
Barro agr expansion would go hard fr
It's nice to see someone revisit this niche subgenre. One of my favorites
0:30 Daytona USA 2 had 50 btw
GENTLEMEN, START YOUR ENGINES
Many of these anti grav racing games are missing a replay/cinematic mode. Being able to playback a recorded race and getting different camera angles is how you get more awareness on the game and more coverage on socials. I'd buy it if it did have such features.
If you can't see the inputs or the racing lines what's the point of a replay? Also, it's fine to have I just don't think many people would watch a cinematic version of a game. As someone who likes racing games I'm going to be interested in how it plays and most people who wouldn't play racing games probably aren't going to be sold by it.
Also, like the one game I can think of that gets reach from socials is trackmania and that just gets people showing off press forward tracks since they look impressive. But the cool thing about them is the building not the driving because they're taking advantage of the deterministic physics to produce the same outcome everytime. I literally talked to someone who thought the whole game was that which honestly is just bad marketing for a game that's all about self improvement and time trials by and large
@@solsystem1342 Trackmania (all versions, including 2020) has a comprehensive replay editor. They use it for analyzing the paths, racing styles and racing against other "ghost racer replays". It not just for cinematics but I appreciate that it is there.
Kinetica and the XG series (at least XG2) deserve honorable mentions on the timeline. XG isn't strictly anti-grav, but both of these definitely include some anti-gravity maneuvering and high-speed shenanigans
Finally, someone else who appreciates the genius of the octagonal stick bracket.
Circles somehow becoming the modern standard is kind of ridiculous tbh
You're a real one for excusing those of us who came because of the title lol
Quantum Redshift on OG xbox was surprisingly high quality. One of my favs on that console. Most of the lead devs from Wipeout worked on it too
Hey Sepi! I wanted to say thank you for giving love and attention to the F-zero franchise... I genuinely love this game and how you presented it on how it will be unlikely to have another game like this...
Side note: Other than the flydigi vader 3 pro, what other controllers can you reccomend for F-zero as well?
1) I love the Forza eswap. I use it to play Disney Speedstorm
2) The 64DD stuff can now be emulated on an N64 with a flashcart
Gamecube controller on the Wii virtual console version worked very well for me. I never found another racing game that feels that good.
Great series so far. I wonder if OG Sonic Riders will get a mention. I really think there's potential for material on that one in this series.
Can't wait for AGR Part 19 where we get a deep dive on Crazy Frog Racing
Enjoying this series. I haven't really played in this subgenre but always thought it was cool. The last non-sim racing game I enjoyed was Burnout Paradise, you could tell that game was made fun-first. Looking forward to Part 3.
Thank you for all of the FH5 tunes.
Also, huge fan of the Extreme G series on the N64.
Simpler times.
Just a day or so ago a great album came out as a tribute to this genre - Anti Gravity Tournament by Mitch Murder and Pizza Hotline. It might not be as popular as it was, but AG racing will always be one of my favorite kinds of video game.
8:21 Extreme-G is the GOAT
Can’t wait for you to cover Jet Motto :))))
Thank you. I loved playing F-Zero X on the OG N64 with OG controller.
When it came to NSO, i was excited to play again, only, well, I was sucking. I felt like I couldnt stop losing grip and had no control. Thought it was my fault and didnt consider that the controller mattered _that_ much.
F-Zero X is my favourite racing game, and I managed to beat the game on expert difficulty on original hardware, with a huge amount of effort. I couldn't even imagine beating it on master. The joystick differences are probably why the game hasn't felt as good when I've tried to play it on emulator.
I consider it a better game than GX because I feel the track design being tighter works perfectly with the game's design and sense of speed, plus I prefer the music and character designs too.
I wish nothing more than for Nintendo to make F-Zero X 2 but I feel that even without the joystick issues, it wouldn't be a popular genre and would likely play more like GX unfortunately. Would be super cool to have 30-player multiplayer on those narrow, unforgiving tracks though.
You can get cheap hall effect joystick modules from [yt censors the name of this company] for like a few bucks, and if you're comfortable soldering you can retrofit controllers like the PS4 and XBox. You just have to make sure you get the module that's suited to your controller, because unlike with potentiometers, hall effect sensors have polarity and every controller is slightly different in that regard.
Great video 😊
Where did you get the $40 controller from? Or what brand is it?
He shows the Flydigi Vader 3 Pro, though the newer Vader 4 Pro is a bit nicer (adjustable stick tension is the biggest difference)
Can we also talk about that killer OST? It's not very often Nintendo includes full-on metal in their soundtracks, but when they do, it goes so mind-bendingly hard! And that's not even mentioning the quality of the MIDI instruments, especially the guitars, which sound so close to the real thing it's almost uncanny!
Bro, I came for the F Zero X footage but the YOU DONT got my sub. Cold. That was ice cold.
Great video. Can't wait until you talk about Jet Motto and Fatal Inertia.
For similar reasons as the joysticks on the n64 vs modern controllers making X play worse, it's a huge reason why none of the Monkey Ball games after the first two have never felt as good. The precision of those Gamecube controllers is so fine, and Monkey Ball (as well as F-Zero GX, which uses the Monkey Ball 2 engine) respond to the tiniest of movements. It really is incredible, some of those late game levels in 1 and 2 have you walking in the thinnest of curvy and sloped rails, and when your skills were honed you could impart the most delicate adjustments to your poor hamster ball trapped monkey. Doubt this is still true, but at the time, the Monkey Ball games were used by some neurosurgeons for practice and warmups, to build their fine motor precision skills.
looking forward for the 3rd episode ;)
2:22 I think you can combat a controller's dead zone's effect on your steering accuracy by also pressing forward on the control stick, rather than simply left/right. This way your controller is never IN the dead zone. I find that this helps even when using an original N64 controller - it's not more accurate but it does give you more physical space to adjust your thumb. One drawback in this game in particular is that pressing forward will aim the nose of the vehicle down while airborne; pressing the control stick down will raise the nose up for longer flight time.
Crazy Call At Cry lives rent free in my head.
Cool video! Can I suggest putting the subtitles at the bottom instead though? It's a little distracting at the top not being used to it.
I was not ready for the submarine joke
A modern solution to a tick drift is the “Hal effect” controllers. You may have to install them yourselves, but the company has them for pretty much every console!
Imagine having the console which its main controller innovation was the thumbstick actually using the hardware in game changing ways. Racing was revolutionary in the N64: Wave Race, 1080 Snow Boarding, Fzero & Excite Bike.
I havent felt a thumbstick that feels better than a fresh N64 one. The position of the thumbstick itself feels better than any other controller. Maybe its having it centered instead of in a side as an aftertaught.
I didn't expect this video to educate me on why I absolutely blow at F-Zero X compared to every other F-Zero game, I thought the ridiculous drift turns were just part of the experience.
... Gonna have to give it a shot without slamming the stick full tilt.
ah, when you said not including "flying vehicles" and you specifically showed Aero Gauge you immediate answered a question that was on the tip of my tongue.
Looking forward to seeing the Extreme G episode
I know they probably dont count but I cant help but think of P.O.D and X-treme G going along with these games.
I like how you reminded us not to use a game controller for a real submarine
It still confounds me that someone genuinely looked at THAT controller (Seriously, what are those sticks?) and thought "Yep, this'll be perfect to steer an already questionably built submersible"
Sometimes I feel like the only old gamer who's never had a controller with stick drift.
In a few car racing games if you press the thumbstick all the way over for full lock you'll end up breaking traction and you'll understeer all the way off the track because you're pushing the steer tires past the point of grip (project cars was notorious for that unless you adjusted the steering response).
3:16 hey now, the control interface was the best engineered part of that vessel! And it's not even close. It's the only part that worked.