Understanding the Present Moment #2 (Friedrich Nietzsche)
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- Опубліковано 8 чер 2024
- Friends, today on the “Word on Fire Show,” we continue our series of discussions called “Understanding the Present Moment.” Brandon Vogt and I are examining four massively influential figures who together help explain our present moment, how we arrived at where we are today.
The ideologies undergirding much of the unrest in our culture stem from these four thinkers: Karl Marx, Friedrich Nietzsche, Jean-Paul Sartre, and Michel Foucault. Once we understand these figures and their key ideas, we will recognize them everywhere and be prepared to engage today’s challenges.
In today’s second discussion, we focus on Friedrich Nietzsche.
A listener asks, what’s the difference between the theological virtues of faith and hope?
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Magnificent. My ailing mother of 94 years and I watched. "What a man!" she whispered after, meaning, Bishop Barron, you are my mother's hero. And more. I told her she was mine. And her illness is a journey and God is with her more and more.
The original lecture on youtube is brilliant! Bishop Baron is an ecclesiastical gem and superb philosopher to boot! He’s one of my heroes and he’s such a nice chap as well!
Do you have a link? Thx
😊🎃
Over the years I’ve come to really appreciate and learn the simple truths of our faith. Thank you.
if only you had the slightest idea of how much you are teaching me..God bless you . From Buenos Aires, count on our prayers..
I am with you on that thought Maria. 🙏🏻
Yes🙏
Thank you Bishop Barron and Brandon, GOD bless you both. Stay safe. ➕ ❤
The moment is all there is. If you're depressed, youre living in the past, if you're anxious you're living in the future and if you're at peace, youre living in the moment. Mindfulness/being in the moment strongly combats anxiety. Life is living in the moment, being in the moment and enjoying the moment.
Very well articulated thoughts from a Catholic perspective on philosophy and how ideas shape history. This kind of discourse is well overdue!
Thank you for all you do 🙂✝️
Very well said
I just listed to the podcast “Very Enlightening”
Thank you Bishop Barron 👏🌹❤️God bless you always 🕊️🙏 ✝️
He’s been excellent the whole time
Thank you So much Bishop Barron, the way you explain big idea in a way many of us understand is amazing, you are a gift for our Church. You are always in my prayers! God bless you! Ave Maria!
Here's a poem I wrote about overcoming depression called Beyond the Void. If it resonates with you and you need help navigating this drama feel encouraged to reach out.
Wobbling on the edge of utter desolation,
Where thoughts of death become a fascination.
I take a step backwards and continue to sway,
Is this the final hand that I will play?
While what lays behind me is probably eternal rest,
Is this decision the very best?
Death is certain and that much I know,
However there is still life in me left to flow.
Perhaps this anguish can evolve,
Maybe this question isn't impossible to solve.
If I pay a visit to the abyss,
There are so many things here that I will miss.
Some things good and some things bad,
Joyful events and those which are sad.
When will this perspective shift?
I desperately need my spirits to lift.
I look in the mirror and remember every scar,
The result of my despair I need not look far.
Thoughts race through me, shackles tighten,
I scream and then peculiarly my sense of awareness begins to heighten.
A new thought washes through my being,
I take a second glance in the mirror unsure of what I'm seeing.
The burden within me feels far lighter,
A winning result for this righteous fighter.
The ground stops shaking and I gain some composure,
Taking a step towards what was once an enclosure.
Shadows fade away revealing what they left in the dark,
Being pulled forward my soul begins to embark.
P.S.- Persistence is key in overcoming any obstacle. None of us have it all figured out, especially the people who think they do. All we can really do is not forget to learn from our hard learned lessons and not repeat the same psychological patterns that got us into our initial conundrum. I always tell people that I wear a brave face but beneath this suit of armor there is a child in tears. What matters isn't how many times you fell, what matters is that you got back up one more time and are still standing today. She who says she can and she who says she can't are both usually right, meaning that self belief is typically the determining factor as to whether or not you accomplish your goals. I have full faith that you'll continue to sort yourself out and grow as time goes on. I know from experience that the flower that blooms from the cracks is often the most precious flower of them all. Hardships pave the way for success stories, God always roots for the underdog.
David Lewis, your poem is wonderfully written. I love it and encourage you to write more and publish. My humble compliments from a little lady in a little country.,🇨🇷
You are a beautiful soul with many God given gifts …. Blessings and thank you for your inspiring words . From one who appreciates a poet! 🙏
👏👏👏❤️❤️❤️🙏🙏🙏
You're a pretty good poet, David. Honesty and Truth of thought, as is demonstrated in your poem above is attractive. And moreover, this virtue of honesty and adherence to humble truth was one of the greatest attractions that led so many people to admire and follow Jesus while He was teaching in Israel 2000 years ago.
Best to you and may God bless and guide you always.
Bishop Barron, thank you (and Brandon) for making these very informative and interesting videos. The info is enlightening, thought provoking, and necessary, to more clearly understand ourselves and the world in which we live.
Love this lecture series. Thank you and God bless.
I would appreciate a talk on Carl Jung he is a relationship-wise educator. Carl Rodgers, a student of Carl Jung, was very enthusiastic and dedicated to genuine listening skills and relationship management building skills. Thanks Bishop Barron! Word on Fire Speakers, thanks!
20:50 From the Nietzschean perspective, the righteous one is the greater of the two ubermenchen. In other words, the winner. Might makes right in this nihilistic world we've created for ourselves, but Christianity is barbaric. Thank you, Your Excellency, for continuing to fight the forces of evil on the intellectual front. God bless!
Wonderful as always - thank you both 🙏🏻
Really like this series. Thanks so much!!
Absolutely fascinating subject! Thank you!
God bless you, Father
Bravo on the explanation of Aquinas 3 theological virtues. The discernment of these goes deeper with Tim Gallagher book discernment of spirits. An example of applied knowledge in the book is quite useful too. Thank you Bishop Barron.
Thanks much for this video.
In the Philippines, I grow up with that ‘colonial mentality,’ but seems it is starting to change among young gens.
Profound , informative discussion Bishop and Brandon. Thank you.
For me life is all about choices. 🤷🏻♀️ of course with God’s guidance. 🙏🏼
Almost anytime a book or article comes out about Nietzsche, it is clear they misunderstand him, in the same way many think Christ was kind of just a hippie teaching the golden rule. Wonderful to see serious engagement with his ideas.
Another great episode…..thank you…..both of you!!
I like this bishop a lot. Thank you for sharing your wisdom 🙏
I am so grateful for opportunity to listen and enjoy bishop Barron god bless you bishop and thank you Jesus for installing want to change
I miss these conversations
Fascinating talk
Bishop Barron, thanks for the shout out to St. Dominic's in San Francisco and Oakland's hidden gem the priory. Splendid liturgical lecture on Nietzshche's mistaken turn from objective reality, including beauty, truth and good.
You are absolutely marvelous Bishop Barron deep respect for you thank you for being part of the Catholic Church it needs you.🙏
Reading your collection on Flannery O’Connor and just finished “The Violent Bear It Away”… It’s a masterpiece. One of my favorite books I’ve ever read. I feel like young Tarwater is a perfect example of someone trying to assert their own will, and then suffering the consequences (not understanding that when you assert your own will, your in fact asserting the will of the devil) Would love to hear you discuss the novel, I feel like there is just so much there.
I also love that book (and own the beautiful WOF edition!). I agree with your comment on young Tarwater, but don’t you find that the old uncle is also trying to assert his own will ?
@@tomlabooks3263 yes, all three main characters are asserting their own will in different ways it seems. Old Tarwater is trying to assert what he thinks is the will of God, but in a deeply sinful and flawed way. Which my be more sinister since it has driven Francis and Rayber away from the faith. I like what Bishop Baron says, never impose, but propose your beliefs.
@@jesseholden325 Fully agree! 👍🏻🙏🏻
very interesting
That is the same author that is reputed to have said: "If the Eucharist is a mere symbol, then I say, to hell with it"
Thank you so much Bishop. You are great homilist. So inspiring and brilliant preacher. We pray we will be better disciples through your divine guidance. We love you Bishop.💗💖💞🙏🙏🙏
Thank you for taking on these extreme philosophical issues...and bringing light to them. Please keep these coming
I'm receiving the new Thomas Aquinas books by Bishop Robert Barron and forever indebted for the spirit led evangelism coming from His Excellence.
How can I count the many innumerable graces gushing forth like a flood, like torrential rains, like feeling the powerful force of water pounding on my head like I once did while standing under a waterfall in the State Park of Waimea Canyon on the Island of Kawaii in Hawaii.
Is this some sort of advertisement?
Hello
@@tammesikkema5322please define this as not sure how to read the question.
@@Barbaramamato well, I thought this was some sort of advertisement, since it reads as one. Your reply confirms it isn't. Thank you.
@@tammesikkema5322 I take your point If it sounds a bit over-the-top. I know that I am a bit excessive. Lavishingly praising our Bishops is merely intended to out-pace the critics and detractors.
Fascinating how Nietzsche and his philosophy ultimately circles back to older philosophies. The war of all against all is what Thomas Hobbs argued was what made the State/Monarchy so necessary as an absolute entity. Such thinking led to terrible leaders commit terrible crimes
Great video! I'm an ex-atheist. I used to love Nietzsche and now I prefer Pascal. :)
I think Nietzsche went insane from demonic attack...
Que. Buena explicación, de fe y esperanza. Le agradezco mucho. También quería comentar que en tiempo de estos filosofos, también Dios suscitó tremendos santos, cómo Sor Faustina, Conchita Cabrera de Armida, San José María Escrivá
Love does all the miracles! I am so grateful to God, I came to know you Bishop Barron first time hearing your talks in Liverpool UK made me like to follow your media blessed encouraging talks and views focused on eternal path. I adore you in Jesus Christ way. God bless you 🙏
God bless you bishop Robert for being an instrument of Christ, I would like you to talk about the dictators of Nicaragua, Venezuela,Cuba and the persecution of the church in these communists countries, thank you
What about the persecutions made by Chilean or Argentinian dictatorships with the approval of the church??
Ty Guys🙏🏼 GBYM♥️♥️♥️✌️🦋
Hegel also promoted a kind of faith in the result of endless conflict in a void: thesis versus counter-thesis equals synthesis. Rinse and repeat. Upward and upward.
Oh thank ya soo much
Hello Kristin
Congratulations Brandon on your new baby boy. God bless all your family.
Bishop Barron, would be great if you made a series of videos for RCIA…
Nietzche: Contempt and scorn indeed.
Steve n fatrak prepared for me so Wonder full leadership strong thoughts and powerful briefing teaching movement just like my son his person passion increase just like me God bless you and your country Amén
I’ve been thinking about the so-called “God is dead, what now?” And this interview is EXACTLY WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR!!
I would just modify BRB's last statement @24:08 to, the glory of God is a "moral" übermensch. Very interesting thanks.
Good luck and God Bless! Know of young man who helped your move.
A critique of Nietzsche based on his influence on nationalism socialism is fair game.
"Ye are judged by the fruit of your works"
Concerning the relationship between the saint and the Uebermensch: one of the most curious definitions Nietzsche gave of his Uebermensch is: 'the Roman caesar with the soul of Christ'...
The heroism of saints stems not from an egoic power source, which would echo more the Nietzschean concept of heroism. The heroism of saints stems from a willful surrendering to God’s will to a point where a man like Paul acts from Christ in Him. The Nietzchean man is incapable of such a level of paradoxical living. While he may be encouraged to detach himself from things in the way of his heroic living, he remains deeply attached to his outcomes. A saint chooses not to, entrusting those fully to God.
Levis Shalom
Nietzsche seems to put each individual in a bubble… where the individual and their unique worldview exist (each has their own morals,god, etc.)
But that can’t work… there are 6B individuals on the planet….each would be conflicting. As a mom… I can tell you this is a disastrous scenario. Think of recess in elementary school , all the grades on the playground at the same time….with no adults supervising… no whistle blowing. (It looks like he had children, he should have known this.)Thank you for covering this well known man…. I’m now a Nietzsche skeptic. 🌻
I think as far as Nietzsche goes, he was actually fully aware of it being a disastrous scenario and trying to warn people about it thru strawmanning, but most people, then as now, don't get the memo.
There will be 8B people on the planet by Nov 2022
I long for the world where God and Christ and their existence is not a question. I believe we all deserve to know of their existence in this life and it should not be a matter of faith or privilege.
I would like to know your thoughts on the philosophy of Ayn Rand juxtaposed against the four philosophies your examined. Like those her philosophy is grounded in atheism. However, from there her Objectivism departs radically. In a world of growing secularism, Objectivism appears poised to compete with Marx and others for wider cultural acceptance.
The beauty of Nietzsche is showing what happens *if God really were dead* (either metaphysically or culturally)
You're doing really good.
That statement was to read the whole book, hence saying that he is dead he meant that he does exist and that we must embrace the rebirth of his creation on his image and adopt a closer view towards God, metaphorically speaking as a rebirth. I love your encounters father, I love to listen to all the perspective you bring from within the spiritual world. It be nice the world becomes grateful to all our missionaries whom devoted their bows of poverty to reach other nations so we share an universal love and language to cover our prime aims and justices with respect. That day when the world stops accusing us and thanks the work of God as one, on every religion, one God.
Yes, Bishop Robert Barron explains how the truths of God can be found in all or almost all religions; yet, the fullest expression of God and/or experience of God is manifesting in the Catholic Church (defining church as Her people who, then by proxy, create and develop institutions, an organizations or human-made constructs and/or structures.) Moreover, it is people who are made (created, shaped and formed) by God as long as one cooperates.
@@Barbaramamato Amen!
There are philosophical groups and ideological groups of people in our society who are, on a spectrum more or less formed out of these four philosophical writers. They range from either willingly or unwittingly, many going along as a means to fulfill desires either of collective belonging or distinguishing autonomy. Many people have bought into these ideas, others promote them, and propagate them as conversations go public.
I came to see everything as persuasion, informing, including or most especially education. I also realized that the way we learn whether through experience or education, ultimately is by self-education because, one learns only ideas and concepts to which one consents, that which one adopts; or conversely, ideas one rejects.
Yet, we are permitted access to an unimaginable lightness, very much as exists in God's Holy Angels being pure spirits, which is why they so perfectly and completely convey God's love unimpeded, undiminished and unmitigated by themselves. Weightlessness as compared to humility, is a way to imitate Jesus Christ and Mary our Blessed Mother. How well one accepts humility in all things is how closely one learns from the heart of God in Jesus and from the mind of God in The Holy Spirit as it is present in the Holy Angels and in the lives of the Saints who are alive with us and in us here and now. Breathtakingly, painstakingly, refusing to hold anything back, the great Saints are Christ in the world. Pope Francis is a great model of humility, for example, going out to the margins even to the far reaches meeting with the remote indigenous people's of Canada.
You can assert your will and determine your own morality. You can even dress it up and use any number of theorem's and principles to justify your actions. Free will grants us that luxury. But there is a consequence for every choice we make. To borrow from Milton Friedman, there's no such thing as a free lunch. We are all called to account and all accounts are eventually settled.
“There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done." ― C.S. Lewis
I recommend the book Nihilism by father Rose
I'm not religious, but I'd be interested in hearing the Bishop's take on Schopenhauer. As mentioned, he determined or posited that the world (the cosmos, nature, everything) is moved by a blind, dumb Will (the Will to Live). I know of the Logical Positivists who responded to Schopenhauer, but were there any religious responses?
Timothy 2:23
But refuse foolish and ignorant questionings, knowing that they generate strife.
I've met people named Faith and Hope, the only person I can think of named Love is the football coach, Lovie Smith.
Nietzsche thought of debate as something weak people do to assert their will, because they have no power. So he would probably see this debate as the christian church trying to re-establish power that they once had but have lost in modern times.
It seems a bit like Nietzsche doesn’t believe in love. He lacks faith in there being love in others.
I'm no Nietzsche scholar, that's for sure. But I wonder if Bishop Barron is oversimplying him? Is his explanation of Will to Power, satisfactory, for example? Guess I'm looking for a really good intellectual rebuttal to Nietzsche's ideas. Is this the best on offer?
I would qualify the idea that Nietzche to Sartre to the teenager today is a sort of straight line by saying there is nothing new under the sun. I am almost 50 and these were the ideas that formed me as a teenager. You can look back to 1955 and see James Dean portraying the teenage struggle in A Rebel without a Cause. Some of the same ideas can be found in Ecclesiastes - maybe 3,000 years old. The Hebrew word used in Ecclesiastes can be translated as Absurd. Absurdity of absurdities all is Absurd! My point - I am not sure, except to say the "culture war" is nothing new. With political freedom comes responsibility - so one answer to our problems is that Christians are not living the Gospel. God is dead and we killed Him.
And God said Nietzche is dead.
Objective reality is the suffering we cause on others. We should live a life that reduces suffering while we are alive. Death and suffering due to old age or illness, etc., must be accepted as a natural process. Why is this not enough to live a dignified life.
11:43
I'm hearing from the Bishop that Schopenhauer's voluntarism, which asserts that the will is primary, is dangerous, but I'm wondering if it's dangerous AND incorrect?
Voluntarism can obviously lead to dark places, and we can look to Nietzsche for that, but Schopenhauer's moral prescription is far more compassionate than you'd expect just having a basic overview of his writing.
@Artem Down I deeply disagree with this.
I designed the Spanish Colonial residence next door to St Albert's Priory in Oakland.
Well done. It sounds nice.
Good is existence beyond it there is only non existence. It is impossible to go further than good and evil because they are the foundation of of reality.
@@radagast1708 Well, what is beyond existence then, clearly nothing. There is no more objective thing that.
The Legacy of Nietzsche is a constant battlefield. A perfect verbal illustration of everything today. Is that the point? Keeping us battling is keeping us from the truth? Keeping us from Love? Keeping us from God? The Nietzsche Battlefield is where American Universities through UA-cam exist constantly. Everyday I watch videos of speakers in the "conservative" mindspace do battle with students and its endless. Sure we win but do we? I would love to get passed the Battlefield.
Loss of a people - when instead of working for YOUR people, you just work for “people” in general. An amalgamation of random humans from all over the globe, rather than a true family of families.
I can't imagine I'm going to be the first person to use the word " irony " in conjunction with a priest discussing Friedrich Nietzsche....
❤️🙏🙏
I'm really starting to see the ancient Greek pagan influence in Nietzsche.
Yes, Apollo and Dionysus. He wrote in great lengths in the Birth of Tragedy about this
Bishop, the only thing we passed on to our young people is the sadness of Leon Frank Czolgosz.
Hello
I would understand the present moment but I can't keep up.
You remember Read must Vers about 14_18
"Amor fati" and "willing the eternal return of the same" begin to look an awful lot like patience and "acceptance." These are close to some of the virtues Nietzsche grew up believing in...Also, Nietzsche's constant emphasis upon "overcoming" is similar to the believer's efforts to overcome (albeit with grace) temptations. Another point: Nietzsche recognizes the saint, I believe in "The Joyful Science." Yet another, apologists for Nietzsche will indeed point up his emphasis upon "human vitality" (over against mediocrity and half-heartedness). But indeed, contrast these "heroic efforts" w/Irinaeus' notion of a human being "fully alive."
👏🙏🙏🙏
Alexander cut the Gordian Knot, Nietzsche updated it?
“After the laws of physics, everything else is opinion”
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Sure. So what exactly is Neil deGrasse Tyson's point? Is it true or is it just his opinion just as what he pointed out?
Ahh yes, Mr Tyson, the man who likes to fabricate quotes and studies.
See: Noam Chomsky - Michel Foucault debate: Human Nature: Justice versus Power (1971).
Chomsky - recognized innate life sustaining & delight drive (innate drive to love life/being? ...)
Foucault - recognized no innate drive except drive to (self-ish) power; culture is solely a means to some private power.
9:50
I think Nietzsche influenced or at least pre-saged Ayn Rand, although I think Rand emphatically denied that she was derivative or influenced by Nietzsche. In my judgment her denials were based more on pride and conceit of her claim to be original rather than merit. Rand, of course, has been highly influential in contemporary political thought on the right.
Nietzche's contempt for women should be noted. His sister, ironically, was his sole heir.
" The God of Abraham is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."
Dawkins
I totally agree. Prove me wrong
Neither you nor Dawkins have the slightest idea how to read Biblical literature. You're both approaching it in a ham-handedly literalistic way.
@@BishopBarron - bishop can you do a video on how you read biblical literature?
At 16:45, the 4 influential self absorbed men for our sinful chaos today.
Fully realised they are or are not.
This lecture is so interesting. I can see the influence of Nietzsche (as described here) in the tv series Yellowstone. The only measure of humanity is power and ruthlessness, and there is no good or evil.
You remember you add John chapter 1vers 1_7
The idea of religion as wish fulfillment, and other such reductionistic criticisms, are interesting to me. It's interesting because such criticisms have an aspect of truth to them. Like practically everything the Devil says, it is true so far as it goes, but it intentionally neglects the full truth. Is religion wish fulfillment? Yes. That's an aspect of it. We wish to transcend our suffering and obtain an eternal life of ultimate fulfillment, peace, joy, etc. But it's not merely wish fulfillment. God has revealed it to us and we trust what we have received (faith). People criticise faith as blind acceptance of what one wishes to be true but cannot prove. The "cannot prove" part is true. But accepting the idea of faith, to me, is to accept a fundamental truth about being human. Anything of ultimate meaning in life REQUIRES faith. The most important things to us cannot be known or guaranteed before they are pursued. We accept them as true, or at least possible, then pursue them in hopes of obtaining them. We do this because we believe we can achieve them. Having faith, or accepting that one must have faith, is to accept the human limitation of knowledge, and trust that what is beyond our knowledge is good, and wishes good for us if we will allow it. This ultimate good beyond our knowledge is God.
I was an atheist at one point in my life. I tried to live only according to what I could know to be true empirically. I wanted to believe as many true things as possible and reject as many false things as possible. That sounds well and good, and even noble. But our minds just don't function that way, or they don't function merely that way. We are compelled by reason and empiricism but also by many other factors: our emotions, past experience, intuition, values, hopes, relationships, prejudices, etc. True enough, personal factors can create biases and distort our perception of the truth. But relying only on empiricism is certain to miss the full truth because there are serious limits on what we can know in that way. I submit that the full range of human experience and engagement is capable of coming to a knowledge of the truth where pure reason and empiricism is not. Human faculties can be lead into error, and even quite easily. But this is where we trust that there is a God who is reaching out to us more so than us pursuing him, who will lead and guide us to the truth if we'll respond to him.
This series about 4 philosophers reminds me of the bible passage 1 Corinthians 8 in that all the work of both philosophers and prophets too will some day cease. When that happens only works done both out of love and through love itself, who is Jesus Christ, will remain.
Unfortunately, the people who strongly believe in extreme individualism also have a strong disregard for authority of any kind. This makes it difficult to pull them out of their misery. Especially for the Church.
12345 this man has got style, got class, got jive.
On earth marriage is a business contract, children are maternal instinct and duty,friendship is fickle, charity is intermittent or not at all compassion difficult to cope with, kindness on a good day, chocolate yummy,but we don't know love nor god.
Excellent video as always Bishop! I commend you for giving Nietzsche a fair treatment, much moreso than I would have.
I think another thing worth pointing out about Nietzsche and other atheists (Madalyn Murray O'Hair for example) is that they have major daddy issues. A lot of the "great" atheists throughout history have had troubled relationships with their earthly father, and so that undoubtedly makes it harder to believe in a heavenly father. Of course, not all atheists have daddy issues, but it's worth pointing out.
Ithink seen pastor Joel Osteen ministry give one sermon and 2nd sermon Steven fatrak you ideas you give sermon leadership start about Moses and finish about Jesus Christ .
Listen about you not give you church and not you prayers but if confrance you going to be everywhere places