"Well do the research, buy a different tomato" Chidi is literally standing right there, having lived an entire life "doing the research" and was sent to the bad place because doing the research caused the people around him so much suffering.
Honestly, it doesn't make sense, how can a person be marked off for doing something they are unconscious of doing. If a person has a mental illness and they do things that accidentally hurt people without knowing its bad, how do they get marked off for doing something without knowing the consequences of the action? I mean I didn't know that cocoa beans were picked by slaves until I was like 10, so am I really doing something bad if I ate chocolate without knowing the consequences or process of chocolate being made?
@@BeaverChainsaw that's kinda the message of this season. The system is so broken and life is so complex that it's almost impossible to make a truly 100% good choice without any ramifications. Later on you'll see how they fix it and instead go by a humans motivations in the story
Not because of the research he was doing. You can be a professor of knowledge and still be a delight around your loved ones. It was because Chidi was indecisive as heck, period. I'm also indecisive so I get him.
@@rileymachelle4088 but thing is, even going by motivations is a flawed method. lot's of bad stuff get's done on good intentions. i mean, there's a famous saying that "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"
@@bwingbwinggwiyomi Well this just proves that she thought the system fair because she wasn't subject to it; she had to experience it to begin to understand that it wasn't? Your point is not in any way a counter point to what Steven said.
I love that Jason stood up and said an actually fantastically appropriate and relevant story. The look on everyone's faces "Holy crap, what just happened?!"
Boi Boi Well that priest didn’t know that Hitler would do what he did. His motivation was just to save a child’s life. No matter what Hitler did later in life, I don’t think they should take any points away from the Priest.
What I loved about this was how they later tied it back to Chidi's compulsion. He's a man who spent his entire life obsessing over the moral implications of every little thing he did (e.g. buying almond milk) and he (ironically) ended up in the Bad Place precisely because of that. There really is no ideal way to get around all of the ethical pitfalls.
And to really drive it home, I cant remember his name but there's a guy who while on a drug trip learned about the system and then lived his life to the best of his abilities to be 'good'. All of his life was spent sacrificing every little good thing just so he can live ethically, and yet he was destined to go to the bad place after all
@@Brandon-hn5jx Problem there was, although Doug’s motivation isn’t corrupt (he only believes in the Good Place from the shroom trip, but has no actual proof), all of his actions have the problem of self-preservation in the form of moral dessert: He’s only doing them for the intention of getting into the Good Place and rewarding himself with a place in Heaven. Plus, we see in the episode when Michael and Janet visit him that he’s miserable as a result; he’s enabling behaviour from a young bully, drinking his own reconstituted urine, and never doing anything fun. Not to mention he gave Michael and Janet tea MADE from his urine, so many points lost without thinking. Even Doug Forcett, the guy who has devoted his whole life to the Good Place, won’t make it into the Good Place because of his desire for self-preservation and the rippling ramifications of his actions.
@@tedioussugar384 But this itself is a critical flaw with the point system. Unintentional evil is punished heavily, but intentional good isn't rewarded at all.
@@TooFewSecrets that's why Michael convinced the Judge to rework the points system to a motivation-based one at the end of the show, instead of the action-and-consequence one used through the series. Modern society is so complex and intrinsic that even people like Doug wouldn't get to the Good Place. But what I'm saying is Doug likely wouldn't make it to the Good Place in the motivation point system either. He's not doing these kind acts out of genuine generosity, hes doing them so he can get points and get to the Good Place. Because of this, his motivation is selfish, so he gets fewer points for it (the reason he still gets points is because, as stated above, he has no actual proof the Good Place exists, he just believes in it from the shroom trip)
OMG. I just noticed that at 2:45 Jason recognized at first sight the Backpack Kid Dance and looked at Tahani expecting her reaction with such a happiness and enthusiasm. Those details that each actor/actress put into their characters are so pleasant to find.
monokhem Actually, no. The problem shown here with capitalism is that you give money to big unethical corporations that don’t care about ethics and therefore “choosing” to make them more powerful. Then, producers see that ethics doesn’t make money and late stage pretty much every big industry is unethical except the pretty expensive small ones that are dying because no one wants to pay more to consume ethically. In authoritarian communism, the state is all powerful no matter what you do and doesn’t care about your consumption so you can’t make “choices” with your money (or any kind of choice for that matter). In democratic communism (which never truly existed), you should be able to vote for your country’s industry to produce ethically and therefore don’t make choices with your money but, you know, choices!
@monokhem I see you like to write a lot... Ok. I'm going to try and respond to each paragraph individually. #1: I don't quite get your point here to be honest. My point wasn't that corporations are worse than religion or armies. I said that with capitalism you actually get to choose with your money but since corporations are unethical you indirectly fund unethical behavior. #2: Didn't say that it was possible to eradicate capitalism, just that capitalism was bad. A lot of things are bad and you still need to accept them and make the best of them. But trying to blindly defend the devil isn't helping either. #3: I've thrown democratic communism in there so that convinced communists wouldn't complain. Theoretically it's the best system it just seems impossible to implement. Also, thinking outside reality is, in my opinion, never a "failing", but a strength. If nobody ever did THEN technology wouldn't be possible. #4: Never said referendum. I said "votes". And don't take one individual referendum as proof they don't work btw. #5: Obviously "corporations" is an abbreviation to talk about the people who own those corporations. #6: This point is exactly what the afterlife of The Good Place thinks and why nobody made it to heaven in forever. I don't have time to develop all the smart points they made so to summarize: Life is hard, people often don't have the time (and/or money) to "discipline" corporations. Not to mention when you try to "discipline" them, don't forget they're doing it to you to. And unlike you, they have all the resources they need to do it.
But it doesn’t matter if the guy bought another tomato, more then likely the point system will still see it as a inherently bad thing. For example that if you bought a tomato from a organic local shop it could say that the farmer is an alcoholic and by paying for the tomato you technically enable the farmer to get more money and use said money for more booze. Or say that the farmer uses his own dangerous pesticide like Michael said earlier. Simply put it doesn’t matter what or where you get the tomato/ do a certain or random action the point system will still see it as a trigger for a domino effect culminating into a ton of negative points. So simply put your screwed
And it's so much worse. Sure people buy the Tomato, but they DON'T know that that choice even has consequences on their eternal rest/damnation. No creature is going to think that buying anything would have ANY affect on the afterlife. All people care about is their actions against other people in the present, and not about how buying from a supermarket chain has lasting consequences on smaller mom and pop stores; further complicated that most mom and pop stores are OWNED by supermarket chains.
MyMagic LouLou Better yet, it would seem the only way to get “good” points would be “Acknowledge everything about the world is broken, and die writing a book with detailed instructions informing others of the same and that death without committing suicide is the only valid solution.” Only to realize that by trying to make those rules known, you made the System pointless, so your existence is struck from history, so you end up in the Bad Place and you help no one, so all you get out of the endeavor is carpal tunnel. Woof.
Really, they could have just asked the Judge to guide them through a single hypothetical week of being good. If the Judge can do so, then it proves that it is indeed possible. But if the Judge can't, then it would prove the system was broken. Even just a hypothetical day: "Okay, Janet, how long would it take the Judge to research a local tomato that it would be ethical to purchase and eat?" And then for cooking, and how do you earn the money for the food, and where do you live, and basically boil down exactly what WOULD be required for a good life.
It is possible, but still not much. Thnl about studies. If exam have fail:pass ratio 90:10 or even 99:1 (and in GP Heaven:Hell is billions:1) what's point trying?
Not to mention ethical research. You can't use books or a computer, or use information from anyone who did use either to gain knowledge they might share with you. And all the while until you figure each thing out, how do you not unknowingly do unethical things?
I doubt the Judge had the attention span to go through that as a purely verbal discussion. She started to get bored when Chidi started one of his philosophy lectures and was only able to perk up and listen when Jason explained it in a far shorter and more engaging story. Having her go to Earth and see how messed up it is firsthand was probably the best way to get her to wrap her mind around it.
"ask the Judge to guide thru being good... If the Judge can do so..." ...then it proves why Jesus is the only one who will judge the living and the dead: he's the only one who could perfectly fulfill the law.
Tahani's face journey when she's told the scarf is still a neednorgle is just amazing acting. You can see the entire spectrum of human emotion go through her face in like 2 seconds.
At 2:03 it says that the tomato was bought from "Food and Stuff" which is also the name of a famous grocery store in Parks and Recreation. I love the reference to the Schur-niverse 😆
>people stopped going to the good place around the time global colonialism became a major economic factor. >colonialism, particularly in its current form of neoliberal globalized capitalism, has widened the gap to be absolutely impassable for any human as they are not allowed any choices in consumption that don't ultimately contribute to exploitation, even if its consumption limited to the bare minimum needed to survive. Individual actions such as consumer activism (I.E. 'vote with your wallet') are ultimately powerless to make an effect on such a state of affairs. >there is no ethical consumption under late capitalism. >inb4 Zizek namedrop in season 4. I see where you're going with this, and I like where this is headed.
@monokhem Actually probably no living being under such rules. Wanna ear sth funny? I've met guy who was claiming people are bad, and wildlife is great. Same time he'd claimed that people are like weed destroying all life and beauty to reproduce and feed. Man, you know, weed is wildlife.
Good point not to mention the judge and the other emotional immortal beings are not subject to the same limitations as a human being on Earth. For example they don't allow them don't have empathy. Second they don't have a lot of human concepts oh how the world should work. They are on the outside looking in. for example human beings don't often think about Ethel inclusions cuz they're just trying to survive they have to hold down a jobs raise a family and are just too busy to worry about every ethical decision around them.
You know i just thought about a depressing fact. Since no one ever got into the good place in 500 years that means that children also went to the bad place. Even babies!
That is so true. Sure they didn't do anything, but going to the good place requires a ridiculious amount of good points. I think the minimum is 1,000,000. Goddamm it now I found the one plot hole. You would think people would start to question the point system when they are literally torturing babies
@@teneesh3376 Well the only ones doing the tourturing are demons who are pretty evil so they probably enjoyed torturing babies. The Good Place is canonically a setting where babies are tortured for 500 years.
@@MrCompassionate01 I mean, remember Glen. Only liked torturing humans because he thought they were beyond redemption. He couldn't so close minded that he though babies were beyond redemption. Or maybe he did because he didn't understand humans
@@teneesh3376 I guess demons trust the system enough that they believe all humans who end up in hell are evil, regardless of what shape and size they are. The afterlife is basically a giant faulty bureaucracy which churns up humans and blindly spits them out into their relevant place. Since none of the higher beings in the good place or the bad place really know much about humans or care to know about humans when the system stops working correctly nobody notices and those who do don't care enough to fix it.
@@annabella_prinx I do not know much either since I only took 2 Philosophy courses. The entire first season is based on "No Exit". You can learn more about it in the link here. ua-cam.com/video/stHk4_VePds/v-deo.html. The concept of unintended consequence is similar to what I learned about Kant's moral theory.
@@missspice2087 I wrote that comment before I watched season 4 and I was so wrongg. The ending was beautiful... Way better than season 1 and also season 2 is pretty interesting like when they go to hell and when Michael had to pretend to be evil in front of Shaun. And season 3 is very good WHEN THEY GO BACK TO EARTH and Eleanor gets her afterlife memories back and u find out he mom faked her death. But yeah I was honestly wrong it gets soooo good
@@peachy-wd6ci Lmao I definitely agree. The season one plot twist remains the best, but season 2 and 3 are my favorites. Season 4 was amazing, but I'm still hurt after the ending
The interesting thing about this is that the point system is based on hardcore consequentialism. It ignores the doctrine of double effect (i.e. It believes that the reasons for an action do not affect its moral worth). So what's interesting is the Judge ISN'T a hardcore consequentialist, she judges people differently based on the motivations for their actions, which is why she sent the group back to Earth in the first place.
This does a great job not only showing unintended consequences, but also the asymmetry of information. The system has all consequences available to it, and a person with access to that system could make choices because they have all the knowledge. No human will ever have that without having access to the same system or being omniscient. An easy way to see this is consider a clear good, well-researched act: donating to a charity with great reviews that does critical work. If there is any completely hidden negative variable, say a boss secretly using their paycheck to drink or the money being diverted away from the people/area in need after the charity finishes, it would negate the goodness of the action. Which is likely one of the things that hurt Tahani's score. It is unclear if her selfish motivation actually did keep her from earning points (unlikely since that doesn't make sense in this system), but she would have been dinged for each unseen consequence of the donations.
But intentions do matter on this system. Tahani's motivations are what kept her from the Good Place. Take a look at 02:01. The board says, "Intention to make salad for family". At the time at which the tomato was bought, the salad hadn't yet been made, yet points were given based on intention alone. In conclusion, Tahani's board may have looked something like this: TAHANI AL-JAMIL ACTION: Raised $6 billion for charity +20000 points for all the people helped -10000 points for intention to make sister jealous -10000 points for intention to show off to parents -500 points for lying about the true reason for the charity See what I mean?
Also worth pointing out that doing the research could cost points. Use of electricity from coal power plants polluting the environment, companies running sites exploiting people
Spoilers for this episode, and some wild speculation: . . . . . . Given than Eleanor etc were going to be in the new Medium-Good place neighbourhood (and presumeably pretending to be just regular ol' newly dead folk) but now Michael can't greet that first new guy...... I could see her taking on the role of 'Good Place Greeter' and so sort of like one of the admin team. So. That got me thinking: what if the 4 of them, plus Janet and Michael, end up deciding to stay with their "improvement" neighbourhood long-term and never bothering with the Good Place. The spend the rest of their time helping others to grow and improve.
one way to judge choices is Motivation, Intent/action, and Effect For example: My motivation is my hunger My intent is to buy items And the Effect is making a dish with a tomato. You should be given points for: healthy diet Self care Helping others (the positives in just making a meal) To think that any choice is (morally) right or wrong... is wrong. Those come down to beliefs, opinions, and some things like personal goals. EVERYONE thinks differently to at least one or more things. How dare the overseers make philosophical places of moral rights and wrongs without considering the idea of humans' personal opinions/beliefs. The reward (The good place/The bad place) after the finish line (death) shouldn't be decided upon how we performed but why we even wanted to show up at the race in the first place. The reward (The good place/The bad place) after the finish line (death) shouldn't be decided upon how the world-wide effects on earth... but the person and the outcome of that action.
I agree with everything except the bit about self care as many people with mental illness suffer from self care therefore many people with mental illness would get sent to hell. That is a very ableist thing to say. By saying that disabled people should be sent to hell makes you sound like a Nazi. You are a Nazi if you believe that being able to look after yourself is necessary to get into heaven
Simply put, the way The Good Place calculates things is that whether or not the end justifies the means. And the answer to that is that no, it does not. That your choices and actions have consequences whether you mean to or not.
@@ArcDragoon yeah but what can you do ? isn't it enough to do your best to make the least bad consequences possible ? like you lend someone money because you think they have an ill mother or something and then they use it to pay medical bills but the drug has been tested on animals... what were you supposed to do to get good points ? not lending money or lending money or giving money and not asking to be paid back ? in the current system you got minus points anyway
@@tamhuy10 The problem doesn't come from just doing things. It is from the fact that because life is hard, people no longer think of the consequences. For example, the tomato that they discuss about. It just isn't because of the consequences from that tomato, it is because no one thinks of the consequences of said tomato. No one is repenting for their actions. Everyone goes through their actions and don't think of the consequences. It is being said that people need to slow down and think of the consequences of their actions before acting. And because no one is doing that, it creates precedence for everything and The Good Place no longer needs to make exceptions or weigh actions if the people acting on those choices don't either.
@@ArcDragoon you might be half right but what I was saying that in cannon, even if you do your best to weight your decisions it is impossible to make any without bad consequences
conceptually throwing responsibility like that onto the individual at the end and thus completely divorcing the entrapment scenario that is the whole of human society, one which you are born into without and specific consent and are often bound to operating within, this is entrapment.
Michael became my favourite character if the show after season 2. He's such an amazingly written character and the actor's comic timing is phenomenal 🤣🤣👌🏾👌🏾
"Do the research" Yes, let me research every little thing I buy, when you can't even find a ton of knowledge on the interenet, not to mention some of it is fake. Plus, if you do that you have to go all the way back. Like, what if you buy a vegetable that itself hasn't been harmful, but the tool that was used to plant it has wood that was chopped down by exploited workers? Oh, and on top of all of that I still have to have time to, you know, work, live, help living beings. This episode really makes you realize how forked life is.
And the fact that if you buy an ethically courted tomato the price goes up a ton. And not everyone has time or energy to cook everything all the time. If you’re in the hospital on their diet do you just not eat in case the food isn’t grown in the garden outside?
I love the little easter egg with the name of the store where the tomato was bought: Food and Stuff. "It’s where I buy all of my food and most of my stuff."
Yes. Most ethical is communism, which is actually system screwed so badly that in capitalism we have "unfairly" poor people, medium class who thinks they are unfairly poor, little higher medium class which 2 lower classes thinks they are unfairly rich and "unfairly" rich people. In communism we have unfairly poor nation and unfairly rich Party members. And mild communism is just m country now. I know at least 2 people who gave up job as they claim unemployment allowance is so high they prefer to not work.
@monokhem especially since capitalism has existed for as long as humanity has, so they contradict the idea that anyone was able to go to the good place.
@@jb76489, then split the difference, whether it be social capitalism or democratic socialism. That way consumer habits can continue to generate profit while companies are forced to adhere to guidelines more in keeping with social mores.
More than that - I think the cast and crew have started calling special effects Neednoggles, so on set a crew member would tell the actor, you're holding a neednoggle or some such. So the line in the show referring to the slug thing on Tahani's shoulder is something they might have said for real.
I have binged too many of these clips. And I think the big problem with the points systems is it''s based on blind extreme utilitarianism; poor Chidi. I mean, you are being judged by the long-term effects of your actions. Which is actually consequentialism, not utilitarianism. but if you can't predict the long term consequences of your actions, how can you be judged for them, let alone learn from them? And yes, I've seen the series finale. Did I mention I've binged too many clips?
0:43 I just realized when the judge hit on chidi his memory of her was erased could you imagine some random stranger just walking up to you and saying that?
So the main issue with the point system is the compiling effect. Well this might be the worst situation possible. De-bugging that system would take infinity plus one days.
"Well do the research, buy a different tomato"
Chidi is literally standing right there, having lived an entire life "doing the research" and was sent to the bad place because doing the research caused the people around him so much suffering.
Honestly, it doesn't make sense, how can a person be marked off for doing something they are unconscious of doing. If a person has a mental illness and they do things that accidentally hurt people without knowing its bad, how do they get marked off for doing something without knowing the consequences of the action?
I mean I didn't know that cocoa beans were picked by slaves until I was like 10, so am I really doing something bad if I ate chocolate without knowing the consequences or process of chocolate being made?
@@BeaverChainsaw that's kinda the message of this season. The system is so broken and life is so complex that it's almost impossible to make a truly 100% good choice without any ramifications. Later on you'll see how they fix it and instead go by a humans motivations in the story
Not because of the research he was doing. You can be a professor of knowledge and still be a delight around your loved ones.
It was because Chidi was indecisive as heck, period. I'm also indecisive so I get him.
@@rileymachelle4088 but thing is, even going by motivations is a flawed method. lot's of bad stuff get's done on good intentions. i mean, there's a famous saying that "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"
@@BeaverChainsaw yeah. like if corrupt motivations can cancel out positive points, why can innocent motivations cancel out negative points?
The Judge is the epitomi of someone who thinks the system is fair because they aren't subject to it.
Yep.
The judge and the other imortal beings in the othrrlife are not subject to the same rules of Earth.
Except you'll see she goes to Earth and she comes back completely traumatised and gains more empathy of their situation lmaoo
@@bwingbwinggwiyomi Well this just proves that she thought the system fair because she wasn't subject to it; she had to experience it to begin to understand that it wasn't? Your point is not in any way a counter point to what Steven said.
@@bwingbwinggwiyomi that kind of proves op’s point
I love that Jason stood up and said an actually fantastically appropriate and relevant story.
The look on everyone's faces "Holy crap, what just happened?!"
My reaction was what the hell
Like the grandma in Willy Wonka.
@@moneylover318 Those were my exact words too😂
@@princessangel821 This is a bigger shocker then when Jason gave Michael a good idea last season
@@moneylover318 Then again, it must be serious if Jason's making sense
When Hitler was a child, he almost drowned but he was saved by a priest.
How do you even begin to calculate the points for this action?
+1000 points because you saved a child but
-9000000 points because you basically let the second world war
Boi Boi no way is this true
@@Infinitespam I'm pretty sure it's not, I think he's just giving an example.
@@Infinitespam he was also saved by a allies soldier during ww1
Boi Boi Well that priest didn’t know that Hitler would do what he did. His motivation was just to save a child’s life. No matter what Hitler did later in life, I don’t think they should take any points away from the Priest.
What I loved about this was how they later tied it back to Chidi's compulsion. He's a man who spent his entire life obsessing over the moral implications of every little thing he did (e.g. buying almond milk) and he (ironically) ended up in the Bad Place precisely because of that. There really is no ideal way to get around all of the ethical pitfalls.
And to really drive it home, I cant remember his name but there's a guy who while on a drug trip learned about the system and then lived his life to the best of his abilities to be 'good'. All of his life was spent sacrificing every little good thing just so he can live ethically, and yet he was destined to go to the bad place after all
@@Brandon-hn5jx It was Doug Forcett, the guy who got high on mushrooms in 1972 and got 92% correct about the afterlife. April 30, 2021, 9:08pm
@@Brandon-hn5jx Problem there was, although Doug’s motivation isn’t corrupt (he only believes in the Good Place from the shroom trip, but has no actual proof), all of his actions have the problem of self-preservation in the form of moral dessert: He’s only doing them for the intention of getting into the Good Place and rewarding himself with a place in Heaven.
Plus, we see in the episode when Michael and Janet visit him that he’s miserable as a result; he’s enabling behaviour from a young bully, drinking his own reconstituted urine, and never doing anything fun. Not to mention he gave Michael and Janet tea MADE from his urine, so many points lost without thinking. Even Doug Forcett, the guy who has devoted his whole life to the Good Place, won’t make it into the Good Place because of his desire for self-preservation and the rippling ramifications of his actions.
@@tedioussugar384 But this itself is a critical flaw with the point system. Unintentional evil is punished heavily, but intentional good isn't rewarded at all.
@@TooFewSecrets that's why Michael convinced the Judge to rework the points system to a motivation-based one at the end of the show, instead of the action-and-consequence one used through the series. Modern society is so complex and intrinsic that even people like Doug wouldn't get to the Good Place.
But what I'm saying is Doug likely wouldn't make it to the Good Place in the motivation point system either. He's not doing these kind acts out of genuine generosity, hes doing them so he can get points and get to the Good Place. Because of this, his motivation is selfish, so he gets fewer points for it (the reason he still gets points is because, as stated above, he has no actual proof the Good Place exists, he just believes in it from the shroom trip)
Michael's dance 😂😂"it makes people happy."
Seems like everyone's using it now that Fornite is getting sued over it. Fuller House randomly used it too.
Ololololollololololololo
Lindsey Cassella it makes people cringe*
666 likes!?
They removed that scene :(
OMG. I just noticed that at 2:45
Jason recognized at first sight the Backpack Kid Dance and looked at Tahani expecting her reaction with such a happiness and enthusiasm. Those details that each actor/actress put into their characters are so pleasant to find.
I’m a year late but I love this comment
Season 1: whoa a bad person got into heaven, how wacky is that?
Season 3: there is no ethical consumption under late stage capitalism
Now we're talking.
That escalated quickly!
monokhem Actually, no. The problem shown here with capitalism is that you give money to big unethical corporations that don’t care about ethics and therefore “choosing” to make them more powerful. Then, producers see that ethics doesn’t make money and late stage pretty much every big industry is unethical except the pretty expensive small ones that are dying because no one wants to pay more to consume ethically. In authoritarian communism, the state is all powerful no matter what you do and doesn’t care about your consumption so you can’t make “choices” with your money (or any kind of choice for that matter). In democratic communism (which never truly existed), you should be able to vote for your country’s industry to produce ethically and therefore don’t make choices with your money but, you know, choices!
@monokhem I see you like to write a lot... Ok. I'm going to try and respond to each paragraph individually.
#1: I don't quite get your point here to be honest. My point wasn't that corporations are worse than religion or armies. I said that with capitalism you actually get to choose with your money but since corporations are unethical you indirectly fund unethical behavior.
#2: Didn't say that it was possible to eradicate capitalism, just that capitalism was bad. A lot of things are bad and you still need to accept them and make the best of them. But trying to blindly defend the devil isn't helping either.
#3: I've thrown democratic communism in there so that convinced communists wouldn't complain. Theoretically it's the best system it just seems impossible to implement. Also, thinking outside reality is, in my opinion, never a "failing", but a strength. If nobody ever did THEN technology wouldn't be possible.
#4: Never said referendum. I said "votes". And don't take one individual referendum as proof they don't work btw.
#5: Obviously "corporations" is an abbreviation to talk about the people who own those corporations.
#6: This point is exactly what the afterlife of The Good Place thinks and why nobody made it to heaven in forever. I don't have time to develop all the smart points they made so to summarize: Life is hard, people often don't have the time (and/or money) to "discipline" corporations. Not to mention when you try to "discipline" them, don't forget they're doing it to you to. And unlike you, they have all the resources they need to do it.
@monokhem You do realize that capitalism has only existed for a few hundred years, right?
It's hardly "an inherent aspect" of humans.
But it doesn’t matter if the guy bought another tomato, more then likely the point system will still see it as a inherently bad thing. For example that if you bought a tomato from a organic local shop it could say that the farmer is an alcoholic and by paying for the tomato you technically enable the farmer to get more money and use said money for more booze. Or say that the farmer uses his own dangerous pesticide like Michael said earlier. Simply put it doesn’t matter what or where you get the tomato/ do a certain or random action the point system will still see it as a trigger for a domino effect culminating into a ton of negative points. So simply put your screwed
Plus thebwhole fact that organics are objectively worse for the environment
That's the point. The point system is broken, the judge is just too far up her own ash to see it.
And it's so much worse. Sure people buy the Tomato, but they DON'T know that that choice even has consequences on their eternal rest/damnation.
No creature is going to think that buying anything would have ANY affect on the afterlife.
All people care about is their actions against other people in the present, and not about how buying from a supermarket chain has lasting consequences on smaller mom and pop stores; further complicated that most mom and pop stores are OWNED by supermarket chains.
Oh god, dont buy tomato then
MyMagic LouLou Better yet, it would seem the only way to get “good” points would be “Acknowledge everything about the world is broken, and die writing a book with detailed instructions informing others of the same and that death without committing suicide is the only valid solution.”
Only to realize that by trying to make those rules known, you made the System pointless, so your existence is struck from history, so you end up in the Bad Place and you help no one, so all you get out of the endeavor is carpal tunnel.
Woof.
I love how “The Neidnagel” (the creature on Tahani) is the last name of The Good Place’s head digital effects guy 😌
Weird, it's German for "jealousy nail."
@@billvolk4236fitting it was on tahani then
More specifically, the neidnagel is its head.
After seeing so many behind the scenes videos of Ted Danson leading to do the dance, he finally does it in an ep. amazing.
Really, they could have just asked the Judge to guide them through a single hypothetical week of being good. If the Judge can do so, then it proves that it is indeed possible. But if the Judge can't, then it would prove the system was broken. Even just a hypothetical day: "Okay, Janet, how long would it take the Judge to research a local tomato that it would be ethical to purchase and eat?" And then for cooking, and how do you earn the money for the food, and where do you live, and basically boil down exactly what WOULD be required for a good life.
It is possible, but still not much. Thnl about studies. If exam have fail:pass ratio 90:10 or even 99:1 (and in GP Heaven:Hell is billions:1) what's point trying?
Not to mention ethical research. You can't use books or a computer, or use information from anyone who did use either to gain knowledge they might share with you. And all the while until you figure each thing out, how do you not unknowingly do unethical things?
Actually judge tried it and then agreed with them......aps fapr I remember
I doubt the Judge had the attention span to go through that as a purely verbal discussion. She started to get bored when Chidi started one of his philosophy lectures and was only able to perk up and listen when Jason explained it in a far shorter and more engaging story. Having her go to Earth and see how messed up it is firsthand was probably the best way to get her to wrap her mind around it.
"ask the Judge to guide thru being good... If the Judge can do so..."
...then it proves why Jesus is the only one who will judge the living and the dead: he's the only one who could perfectly fulfill the law.
“Did you know I was BLACK??? And they don’t like black ladies down there” XD oof
Random Person is this my old comment or do you have the same name as me?
Oof indeed.
Random Person I mean to be fair both comments are just a quote from the show
I liked the bit about Chik-Fil-A sandwiches cause I love their food despite knowing about how they anti LGBT they are.
Considering brutal police, they don't like black gentlemen either.
Tahani's face journey when she's told the scarf is still a neednorgle is just amazing acting. You can see the entire spectrum of human emotion go through her face in like 2 seconds.
I remember seeing the behind-the-scenes of Ted being taught how to do the floss dance, and I'm so happy it actually made it into the episode.
Tomato was bought at Food and Stuff, where Ron Swanson shops.
Not only that, but his name is DOUGLAS LERPISS. A MEMBER OF THE LERPISS FAMILY.
parksandrecreation.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Lerpiss_Family
In that case...+10000000000000000 points and instant good place VIP
One of the best comments I’ve ever scene
YESS
MainBlag Banner WHAAT
At 2:03 it says that the tomato was bought from "Food and Stuff" which is also the name of a famous grocery store in Parks and Recreation. I love the reference to the Schur-niverse 😆
>people stopped going to the good place around the time global colonialism became a major economic factor.
>colonialism, particularly in its current form of neoliberal globalized capitalism, has widened the gap to be absolutely impassable for any human as they are not allowed any choices in consumption that don't ultimately contribute to exploitation, even if its consumption limited to the bare minimum needed to survive. Individual actions such as consumer activism (I.E. 'vote with your wallet') are ultimately powerless to make an effect on such a state of affairs.
>there is no ethical consumption under late capitalism.
>inb4 Zizek namedrop in season 4.
I see where you're going with this, and I like where this is headed.
@monokhem Actually probably no living being under such rules. Wanna ear sth funny? I've met guy who was claiming people are bad, and wildlife is great. Same time he'd claimed that people are like weed destroying all life and beauty to reproduce and feed. Man, you know, weed is wildlife.
the whole point is that the point system is broken tho
I don’t see how China in the 16th century starting to involve in colonialism, yet still no one goes to the good place
Good point not to mention the judge and the other emotional immortal beings are not subject to the same limitations as a human being on Earth. For example they don't allow them don't have empathy. Second they don't have a lot of human concepts oh how the world should work. They are on the outside looking in. for example human beings don't often think about Ethel inclusions cuz they're just trying to survive they have to hold down a jobs raise a family and are just too busy to worry about every ethical decision around them.
You know i just thought about a depressing fact. Since no one ever got into the good place in 500 years that means that children also went to the bad place. Even babies!
That is so true. Sure they didn't do anything, but going to the good place requires a ridiculious amount of good points. I think the minimum is 1,000,000.
Goddamm it now I found the one plot hole. You would think people would start to question the point system when they are literally torturing babies
That's pretty horrible...
@@teneesh3376 Well the only ones doing the tourturing are demons who are pretty evil so they probably enjoyed torturing babies. The Good Place is canonically a setting where babies are tortured for 500 years.
@@MrCompassionate01 I mean, remember Glen. Only liked torturing humans because he thought they were beyond redemption. He couldn't so close minded that he though babies were beyond redemption. Or maybe he did because he didn't understand humans
@@teneesh3376 I guess demons trust the system enough that they believe all humans who end up in hell are evil, regardless of what shape and size they are. The afterlife is basically a giant faulty bureaucracy which churns up humans and blindly spits them out into their relevant place.
Since none of the higher beings in the good place or the bad place really know much about humans or care to know about humans when the system stops working correctly nobody notices and those who do don't care enough to fix it.
I swear I can't even comprehend how the writers of this show come up with all this stuff 😂 😂 so good 👏🏼
Maybe they are angels from the good place
Some of them are ideas from philosophers of the past.
@@nathanford7490 really? I don't really know much about philosophy past what I've learned in passing with this show.
@@annabella_prinx I do not know much either since I only took 2 Philosophy courses. The entire first season is based on "No Exit". You can learn more about it in the link here. ua-cam.com/video/stHk4_VePds/v-deo.html. The concept of unintended consequence is similar to what I learned about Kant's moral theory.
@@annabella_prinx The writers are actually a team of Janets.
I can’t believe I just watched Michael do the floss
Hey Vsauce, Michael here. Where are your fingers?
thats -888 points (thats a stanley parable refrence)
same that means WE'RE in the bad place
This forking show just keeps getting better.
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Actually for me I feel like after season 1 it went downhill
@@peachy-wd6ci Really? I feel like season one was good, but kinda dull until the last episode and then it got better as the show went on
@@missspice2087 I wrote that comment before I watched season 4 and I was so wrongg. The ending was beautiful... Way better than season 1 and also season 2 is pretty interesting like when they go to hell and when Michael had to pretend to be evil in front of Shaun. And season 3 is very good WHEN THEY GO BACK TO EARTH and Eleanor gets her afterlife memories back and u find out he mom faked her death. But yeah I was honestly wrong it gets soooo good
@@peachy-wd6ci Lmao I definitely agree. The season one plot twist remains the best, but season 2 and 3 are my favorites. Season 4 was amazing, but I'm still hurt after the ending
@@missspice2087 YESSSS 😭💀
I love how Elanor doesn't tell Michael to stop the dance. She just simply ask why LOL
I **knew** that 'neednoggle' wasn't just one of the staff.
Gotta love the writers
*Niednagel
The interesting thing about this is that the point system is based on hardcore consequentialism. It ignores the doctrine of double effect (i.e. It believes that the reasons for an action do not affect its moral worth).
So what's interesting is the Judge ISN'T a hardcore consequentialist, she judges people differently based on the motivations for their actions, which is why she sent the group back to Earth in the first place.
Ted Danson doing the FLOSS is everything!! The behind the scenes of him learning to floss gives me life 💃
This does a great job not only showing unintended consequences, but also the asymmetry of information. The system has all consequences available to it, and a person with access to that system could make choices because they have all the knowledge. No human will ever have that without having access to the same system or being omniscient. An easy way to see this is consider a clear good, well-researched act: donating to a charity with great reviews that does critical work. If there is any completely hidden negative variable, say a boss secretly using their paycheck to drink or the money being diverted away from the people/area in need after the charity finishes, it would negate the goodness of the action. Which is likely one of the things that hurt Tahani's score. It is unclear if her selfish motivation actually did keep her from earning points (unlikely since that doesn't make sense in this system), but she would have been dinged for each unseen consequence of the donations.
But intentions do matter on this system. Tahani's motivations are what kept her from the Good Place. Take a look at 02:01. The board says, "Intention to make salad for family". At the time at which the tomato was bought, the salad hadn't yet been made, yet points were given based on intention alone. In conclusion, Tahani's board may have looked something like this:
TAHANI AL-JAMIL
ACTION: Raised $6 billion for charity
+20000 points for all the people helped
-10000 points for intention to make sister jealous
-10000 points for intention to show off to parents
-500 points for lying about the true reason for the charity
See what I mean?
Also worth pointing out that doing the research could cost points. Use of electricity from coal power plants polluting the environment, companies running sites exploiting people
I just watched this episode, I love the ending, it’s so giddy and thought through
I just hope they don't get rid of our favorite characters and start from scratch
Frederick LaFrance me too, I love the original characters
Spoilers for this episode, and some wild speculation:
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Given than Eleanor etc were going to be in the new Medium-Good place neighbourhood (and presumeably pretending to be just regular ol' newly dead folk) but now Michael can't greet that first new guy......
I could see her taking on the role of 'Good Place Greeter' and so sort of like one of the admin team.
So.
That got me thinking: what if the 4 of them, plus Janet and Michael, end up deciding to stay with their "improvement" neighbourhood long-term and never bothering with the Good Place.
The spend the rest of their time helping others to grow and improve.
T Electronix That’s what I thought, minus the staying there, I thought that Michael and Janet would stay, and the other four would go.
@@Tastiestbiscuit3132 You would seperate Janet from her Jason?? 😟😟
You monster.
Guys, the episodes seems awfully short , we need more than 20 minutes in the show. please
do you know how many episodes are left until the end of this season ?
These are highlights uploaded to youtube, watch it on ABC or Netflix.
@T H the next week it's the season finale
@@katwaii5627 nooooooooOoooOoooooo （thx for answering)
You're right, we need mooooore
"M- Micheal? What are you doing"
"Backpack kid dance"
"Why"
“I don’t know. It makes people happy.”
THE BACKPACK KID DANCE
FORTNITE DANCE
i be flossiiiiiiiiinn
One of my favorite episodes so far. Just the amount of talent in both the writing and acting its astonishing.... Keep up The Good Work 😊
one way to judge choices is Motivation, Intent/action, and Effect
For example:
My motivation is my hunger
My intent is to buy items
And the Effect is making a dish with a tomato.
You should be given points for:
healthy diet
Self care
Helping others
(the positives in just making a meal)
To think that any choice is (morally) right or wrong... is wrong. Those come down to beliefs, opinions, and some things like personal goals.
EVERYONE thinks differently to at least one or more things. How dare the overseers make philosophical places of moral rights and wrongs without considering the idea of humans' personal opinions/beliefs. The reward (The good place/The bad place) after the finish line (death) shouldn't be decided upon how we performed but why we even wanted to show up at the race in the first place.
The reward (The good place/The bad place) after the finish line (death) shouldn't be decided upon how the world-wide effects on earth... but the person and the outcome of that action.
I agree with everything except the bit about self care as many people with mental illness suffer from self care therefore many people with mental illness would get sent to hell. That is a very ableist thing to say. By saying that disabled people should be sent to hell makes you sound like a Nazi. You are a Nazi if you believe that being able to look after yourself is necessary to get into heaven
Simply put, the way The Good Place calculates things is that whether or not the end justifies the means. And the answer to that is that no, it does not. That your choices and actions have consequences whether you mean to or not.
@@ArcDragoon yeah but what can you do ? isn't it enough to do your best to make the least bad consequences possible ? like you lend someone money because you think they have an ill mother or something and then they use it to pay medical bills but the drug has been tested on animals... what were you supposed to do to get good points ? not lending money or lending money or giving money and not asking to be paid back ? in the current system you got minus points anyway
@@tamhuy10 The problem doesn't come from just doing things. It is from the fact that because life is hard, people no longer think of the consequences.
For example, the tomato that they discuss about. It just isn't because of the consequences from that tomato, it is because no one thinks of the consequences of said tomato. No one is repenting for their actions. Everyone goes through their actions and don't think of the consequences.
It is being said that people need to slow down and think of the consequences of their actions before acting. And because no one is doing that, it creates precedence for everything and The Good Place no longer needs to make exceptions or weigh actions if the people acting on those choices don't either.
@@ArcDragoon you might be half right but what I was saying that in cannon, even if you do your best to weight your decisions it is impossible to make any without bad consequences
haha jason's face in the background while michael's doing the backpack dance 🤣
Protect Ted Danson at all costs
That's a divorced woman's throw pillow.
Thank God for Maya Rudolph! She's the best! 😂😂😂
"is it helping?"
well it definitely made me smile
"Earth is a mess, y'all!" The truest line ever
Gen: * not impressed with mikes revelations *
Michael: * starts flossing *
Elenor: “what are you doing...???”
Michael: “It makes people happy...?”
THIS IS WHY WE LOVE MICHAEL GUYS
Jason made beautiful sense with that example of his, and everyone including me thought I lost it.
I don't remember that part and it doesn't appear to be in this clip
Eleanor: "Michael. What are you doing."
Michael: "Backpack kid dance"
It looks more like the floss to me.
conceptually throwing responsibility like that onto the individual at the end and thus completely divorcing the entrapment scenario that is the whole of human society, one which you are born into without and specific consent and are often bound to operating within, this is entrapment.
I watched every episode in one day and now im waiting for more. I love this show
Im my opinion... This is the best show ever!!! I see all the seasons posible :"3
:D
the judge remains one of, if not, the best supporting character in the show i genuinely laughed at almost every line of hers
2:40 Starlord is that you???
Good Trailer, Short enough I had no idea about the storyline but wanted to know more and binge the whole series.
Michael became my favourite character if the show after season 2. He's such an amazingly written character and the actor's comic timing is phenomenal 🤣🤣👌🏾👌🏾
TL;DR: Chidi's entire Thing is pointless because the universe works almost purely based on outcomes no questions asked.
"Do the research"
Yes, let me research every little thing I buy, when you can't even find a ton of knowledge on the interenet, not to mention some of it is fake. Plus, if you do that you have to go all the way back. Like, what if you buy a vegetable that itself hasn't been harmful, but the tool that was used to plant it has wood that was chopped down by exploited workers? Oh, and on top of all of that I still have to have time to, you know, work, live, help living beings.
This episode really makes you realize how forked life is.
And the fact that if you buy an ethically courted tomato the price goes up a ton. And not everyone has time or energy to cook everything all the time. If you’re in the hospital on their diet do you just not eat in case the food isn’t grown in the garden outside?
Who else loves Ted Danson rn?!?!!!! He’s a total boss in this show. Am I right? Or what?
JASON'S REACTION TO MICHAEL FLOSSING OMFG
This explains a lot of the cast's Instastories
This show is amazing , we haven't had a decent comedy series in a long while
I love the little easter egg with the name of the store where the tomato was bought: Food and Stuff. "It’s where I buy all of my food and most of my stuff."
If that chicken sandwich wasn't so forking delicious it would be slightly easier to get into The Good Place
THERE IS NO ETHICAL CONSUMPTION UNDER CAPITALISM
Yes. Most ethical is communism, which is actually system screwed so badly that in capitalism we have "unfairly" poor people, medium class who thinks they are unfairly poor, little higher medium class which 2 lower classes thinks they are unfairly rich and "unfairly" rich people. In communism we have unfairly poor nation and unfairly rich Party members.
And mild communism is just m country now. I know at least 2 people who gave up job as they claim unemployment allowance is so high they prefer to not work.
@monokhem especially since capitalism has existed for as long as humanity has, so they contradict the idea that anyone was able to go to the good place.
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism
R0DisG0D there is no caloric consumption under communism
@@jb76489, then split the difference, whether it be social capitalism or democratic socialism. That way consumer habits can continue to generate profit while companies are forced to adhere to guidelines more in keeping with social mores.
@@chromegaman What right do you have to tell someone else what they can or cannot do if its not hurting anyone?
@@jb76489 And you just confirmed you are not worth debating.
@@chromegamanAnd yet here you are
Nice dodge by the way, I'm sure no one will notice you couldn't answer that very simple question
HER FACE AT THE END LOL
The judge is so chill
Ted Danson's facial movements while doing the *Backpack* *Kid* *Dance* are priceless.
THE INTERDIMENSIONAL HOLE OF PANCAKES ;w;
Love how the Judge is always hitting on Chidi! 😂😂
And then Gen gets to see what it's like for us all the time. Sadly I'll never unhear the fact that there's such a thing as a sun burn fetish.
30% of the audience googled it and got -5000points
@@tamhuy10 why do you lose points for exploring sexuality?
@@l.tc.5032 Because they made Matt in accounting request suicide again
Well, the dance made ME happy.
Did anyone notice the pancake syrup in the Ihop was glowing and green
Y'all really named the alien worm after your visual effects dude? That's dope
More than that - I think the cast and crew have started calling special effects Neednoggles, so on set a crew member would tell the actor, you're holding a neednoggle or some such. So the line in the show referring to the slug thing on Tahani's shoulder is something they might have said for real.
From now on I will take it very seriously when it comes to picking a tomato!
i'm amazed how Michael stay calm in front of almighty judge after all he have done
Chidi saying bad while smiling is how I’ve survived 2020.
I love jasons face during this 2:42
I have binged too many of these clips.
And I think the big problem with the points systems is it''s based on blind extreme utilitarianism; poor Chidi.
I mean, you are being judged by the long-term effects of your actions. Which is actually consequentialism, not utilitarianism. but if you can't predict the long term consequences of your actions, how can you be judged for them, let alone learn from them?
And yes, I've seen the series finale. Did I mention I've binged too many clips?
the Michael Floss had me laughing my head off
Skip to 1:54 for those who want to share the clip with others (to see if they're interested in the show) without sharing too many spoilers.
The best thing is Jason of all people raising an actually good point
I'm disappointed they didn't include Jasons explination about how the world works.
Oh my gosh yes, it was so good, no one saw it coming. They all thought they were dead
Jason is more of a comic relief, his view is pointless
THE BACKPACK KID THING WASN'T JUST BEHIND THE SCENES FUN, THEY WERE ACTUALLY PRACTICING IT FOR THE SHOW!!!!! XD
I know when ted was practicing it and kristen bell filmed it and told mark evam jackson "Youre a good friend"
I screamed when he did the floss.
2:40 *michael proceeds to floss in front of the judge*
I’d love to see the rest of the scene and the scene in the board room
I just noticed the grocery store is called food and stuff like the one from parks and recreation
The thumbnail looks like Micheals gonna floss
Grocery store named "Food and stuff" - same as the grocery store from Parks and Rec - Michael Schur wrote both
This episode had me all over the map!
Just noticed that tomato was bought from Food and Stuff. Does that mean Parks and Recreation and The Good Place take place in the same universe?
Douglas Lerpiss from Snerling Indiana at a Food and Stuff. Huge Parks and Rec crossover.
Two interesting facts: The neednoggle is named after The Good Place's VFX Producer, David Niednagel.
Also Niednagel is the German word for hangnail.
0:43 I just realized when the judge hit on chidi his memory of her was erased could you imagine some random stranger just walking up to you and saying that?
I'm back pack kid dancing" lmao Micheal
“Life is complicated is not a point, it’s a divorced woman’s throw pillow” this show deserves every emmy 😂😂
I love Eleanor comforting Chidi before the Judge transitioned them to IHOP... that was wholesome
you mean augmented
when michael started flossing thats what got me 😂😂😂
"i hate this place!!" 😂😂😂
We're forever left wondering why Tahani can't touch the Niednagel...this is gonna haunt me to me grave👀🤔😭
I miss this show
Maya Rudolph is so forking great.
1:33 when you hear season 4 is the last season
So the main issue with the point system is the compiling effect. Well this might be the worst situation possible. De-bugging that system would take infinity plus one days.