Maybe we just have to accept that a perfectly competitive sap isnt really possible. Scorpion doesnt seem meaningfully nerfable without ruining its identity.
I think scorpian is fine honestly. To me it feels like the eggplant in golden pack, except it's only really picked up as a desperate measure to try and grasp a few wins out. It is really strong but maybe just make it tier 6
@@benjamincruz6633 level 2 is the same as the current scorpion. If level 2 was before battle then you could get rid of the mushroom combo all together. The way scorpion is right now sucks and I don't think you should be able to spend 3 gold and instantly kill a 50/50 if you land on it.
Uhhh I mean that was a sick game. If anything this video makes a good case for scorpion being exactly where it should be- making the layers of counterplay both interesting and easy to understand from a player perspective. The double fly play was outrageous, by the way. High level.
@@FranXiT agreed, just wondering how OP it might still make some of the packs since they can all face each other in ranked, as Scoottie pointed out in the video. I still think this is a good enough debuff, only concern would be if there ended up being some way to easily exploit getting or summoning Lv3 scorp in a particular pack and not the others.
I dont have a problem with scorpion as there are tons of counters. However, maybe they could make it so Lvl 1 only gets peanut in the shop, and you need a Lvl 2 for it to get a peanut when spawned in battle. This would finally give a reason to level it up
Scorpion: feint - apply poison to random enemy. Poison either depletes 10 health every attack turn, or a poisoned pet insta dies to any damage. Something like that could be cool if balanced properly
If the scorpion gained peanut on hurt and its stats were something like 1/5 it would require more to set up. Pairing with the bell pepper or lemon would be a good combo and require more money to make it work. I'm not sure how level ups would work but it doesn't level up at the moment anyway
Then levels could actually mean something, for example it could only gain peanut once after being hurt at level 1, and 3 times at level 3, very similar to the Gorilla.
What if upon faint, it disperses it's peanut to the front members of each team; upon levelling up it could disperse peanuts equal to that level? That way players are encouraged not to spam scorpions, and could make for some interesting item-play.
Maybe a rework introducing DoT/Poison might be worth testing. Poison: The afflicted pet takes [X] damage every time it attacks. Scorpion Tier 1: Faint: Apply 5 Poison Tier 2: Faint: Apply 10 Poison Tier 3: Faint: Apply 15 Poison Things to test: - If too powerful, nerf to 3/6/9 or 4/8/12. - if too weak, buff to 6/12/18 or 8/16/24 (This feels like an insane amount of damage just typing it out.) - Consider removing Faint trigger, and have the poison stack. Other considerations: - Rework peanut to be an enemy rebuff, more of a decay effect. Peanut: Before attack, lose 33% your health. Scorpion Tier 1: Give a random enemy minion a Peanut. Tier 2: Give two random enemy minions a Peanut. Tier 3: Give three random enemy minions a Peanut. I don’t think either of these suggestions are the right answer, but it’s a jumping off point for brainstorming alternative solutions.
Scorpion could "Mark for death" upon dealing damage of any type (chili and egg included), where the next source of damage Kills the pet, instead of having peanuts. I think all other forms of peanuts are convoluted enough that they are fair. Leveling up could increase its uses to 2 and 3. I originally wanted it to gain a ranged attack like egg at tier 3 so that it could beat melons but they got rid of Octopus' jank level up abilities so I think they don't like that mechanic. A large enough Tier2 Chili scorpion could also do some serious damage but requires scaling and is still weaker than a lot of pets when scaled. It wouldn't be a 1/1 anymore but should still die to weak snipes, maybe 7/3 and would lose out to melon if not scaled when just given a mushroom. A one shot that isn't worth just throwing into the 5th slot to delete one pick. I also think the interaction against a 50/50 melon is a lot healthier than old mushroom scorpion since an opponent gets one last swing of their huge unit rather than having it erased from the lobby.
Maybe scorpion could change how it works at different levels. Maybe "gets peanut on summon" could be it's level 3 ability, and it's level one ability could be on buy. That would also let you give the scorpion other food and then stack another one on when you need peanut back. And for it's level 2 ability they could do something like "if enemy has peanut, steal it (works one time per turn)"
I honestly feel like they should add more pets that use ailments, or making it so that pepper lets you survive peanut. Maybe that would make it more unique
How would you feel if peanut was single use like the melon? And then maybe scorpion ability is level 1 gain peanut at end of turn.level 2 gain it at start of turn. level 3 gain it on summon?
Skoottie there is a very over Powered combo with two stegosaurus in the back and three slugs the one in front with no mushroom And the two other slugs with mushrooms
The simple fix is honestly just removing it from Turtle Pack and leaving it as a custom only pack, especially since customs seem to be pretty much a competitive nightmare anyways
Maybe they could increase its stats and give it these ablities Lvl 1: Before attack gain steak (triggers 1 time) Lvl 2: Before attack gain steak (triggers 2 times) Lvl 3: Before attack gain steak (triggers 3 times)
I feel like the scorpion is for the most part fine where it is. IMO its meant to counter people that put all their eggs in 1 basket, IE put all their stats into one big pet that just bulldozes the entire opposition. Personally I think where it gets a little too good is the fact that a mushroom works with it, which means easy counters too it like watermelon don't work against it when perhaps they should. So if it were to be changed I think that it should just get peanut only when summoned in the shop not during battle.
i think that scorp should be changed to triggers, like lvl 1 - before attack gain peanut. triggers 1 time lvl 2 - before attack gain peanut. triggers 2 times lvl 3 - before attack gain peanut. triggers 3 times
I personally don’t think scorpion needs to be needed that badly I feel like there are a lot of counters to it If it did maybe level 1 on buy level 2 would be on summon Level 3 on summon would be way too nerfed , nobody would ever use it at that point
My opinion is controversial. I dont think the packs should play against each other in ranked. It limits the design space. My best metaphor is with magic. Ice age shouldnt be able to play with every set. But when i wanna play ice age i shouldnt have to deal with ravnica. Thats why we should have customs ranks for making busted packs. Than each pack has its own identity and doesnt havent to be completely balanced around other packs
Watching SAP versus and ranked is so boring compared to arena dude, just sitting watching the timer countdown sucks. Agreed that you should be able to swap positions while waiting at the very least
Maybe we just have to accept that a perfectly competitive sap isnt really possible. Scorpion doesnt seem meaningfully nerfable without ruining its identity.
I think scorpian is fine honestly. To me it feels like the eggplant in golden pack, except it's only really picked up as a desperate measure to try and grasp a few wins out. It is really strong but maybe just make it tier 6
tier 6 scorp just makes it incredibly outclassed by walrus
Imo scorpion is completely fine and doesn’t need any changes
On attack: Gain peanut (works 1/2/3) times per round. There ya go
@@nintendocyclonethis way you can give it a pepper and prevent it being sniped.. would be too good
Just make the peanuts go away on attack like steak
I think it could be a buy ability at level 1 and at level 2 or 3 it became a spawn ability, so you would have a motive to level it up
Level 1; peanut on buy
Level 2; peanut on summon
Level 3; peanut before attack
Level 3 is worse than level 2 for mushroom purposes
True, but before peanut attack does counter ink/weakness which hard counters scorpion and 1-up scorpion normally
@@peterlynch9929 maybe like
buy/get ailment/summoned gets peanut
Lvl3 obviously
@@benjamincruz6633 level 2 is the same as the current scorpion. If level 2 was before battle then you could get rid of the mushroom combo all together. The way scorpion is right now sucks and I don't think you should be able to spend 3 gold and instantly kill a 50/50 if you land on it.
Uhhh I mean that was a sick game.
If anything this video makes a good case for scorpion being exactly where it should be- making the layers of counterplay both interesting and easy to understand from a player perspective.
The double fly play was outrageous, by the way. High level.
Lv1: On buy gain Peanut
Lv2: On summon gain Peanut
Lv3: On start of battle gain Peanut?
Lets you run buff stuff like a croissant in the shop
Lv3: before attack gain peanut, to counter weakness and raccoon
@@FranXiT that also helps Lv3 to not be a downgrade for
Lvl2->Lv3 whale or beluga w/ scorpion.
And same for 1up.
Kinda OP tho 😅
@@Michael-kp4bd it's a level 3, it's supposed to be powerful
@@FranXiT agreed, just wondering how OP it might still make some of the packs since they can all face each other in ranked, as Scoottie pointed out in the video.
I still think this is a good enough debuff, only concern would be if there ended up being some way to easily exploit getting or summoning Lv3 scorp in a particular pack and not the others.
Lv3: Gain peanut and give peanut to pet behind.
I dont have a problem with scorpion as there are tons of counters. However, maybe they could make it so Lvl 1 only gets peanut in the shop, and you need a Lvl 2 for it to get a peanut when spawned in battle. This would finally give a reason to level it up
Scorpion: feint - apply poison to random enemy. Poison either depletes 10 health every attack turn, or a poisoned pet insta dies to any damage. Something like that could be cool if balanced properly
Ailment cleansing would feel a lot more viable and that's good
If the scorpion gained peanut on hurt and its stats were something like 1/5 it would require more to set up. Pairing with the bell pepper or lemon would be a good combo and require more money to make it work. I'm not sure how level ups would work but it doesn't level up at the moment anyway
This is lowkey it
Then levels could actually mean something, for example it could only gain peanut once after being hurt at level 1, and 3 times at level 3, very similar to the Gorilla.
@@josephharding2668What would gaining peanut twice do lmao
What if upon faint, it disperses it's peanut to the front members of each team; upon levelling up it could disperse peanuts equal to that level? That way players are encouraged not to spam scorpions, and could make for some interesting item-play.
@@DannyClayton93that's just what walrus does though
Maybe a rework introducing DoT/Poison might be worth testing.
Poison: The afflicted pet takes [X] damage every time it attacks.
Scorpion
Tier 1: Faint: Apply 5 Poison
Tier 2: Faint: Apply 10 Poison
Tier 3: Faint: Apply 15 Poison
Things to test:
- If too powerful, nerf to 3/6/9 or 4/8/12.
- if too weak, buff to 6/12/18 or 8/16/24 (This feels like an insane amount of damage just typing it out.)
- Consider removing Faint trigger, and have the poison stack.
Other considerations:
- Rework peanut to be an enemy rebuff, more of a decay effect.
Peanut: Before attack, lose 33% your health.
Scorpion
Tier 1: Give a random enemy minion a Peanut.
Tier 2: Give two random enemy minions a Peanut.
Tier 3: Give three random enemy minions a Peanut.
I don’t think either of these suggestions are the right answer, but it’s a jumping off point for brainstorming alternative solutions.
Scorpion could "Mark for death" upon dealing damage of any type (chili and egg included), where the next source of damage Kills the pet, instead of having peanuts. I think all other forms of peanuts are convoluted enough that they are fair. Leveling up could increase its uses to 2 and 3. I originally wanted it to gain a ranged attack like egg at tier 3 so that it could beat melons but they got rid of Octopus' jank level up abilities so I think they don't like that mechanic.
A large enough Tier2 Chili scorpion could also do some serious damage but requires scaling and is still weaker than a lot of pets when scaled. It wouldn't be a 1/1 anymore but should still die to weak snipes, maybe 7/3 and would lose out to melon if not scaled when just given a mushroom.
A one shot that isn't worth just throwing into the 5th slot to delete one pick. I also think the interaction against a 50/50 melon is a lot healthier than old mushroom scorpion since an opponent gets one last swing of their huge unit rather than having it erased from the lobby.
awesome idea
Maybe scorpion could change how it works at different levels. Maybe "gets peanut on summon" could be it's level 3 ability, and it's level one ability could be on buy. That would also let you give the scorpion other food and then stack another one on when you need peanut back. And for it's level 2 ability they could do something like "if enemy has peanut, steal it (works one time per turn)"
Cuz like this would nurf scorpion while simultaneously giving you more tools to work with as opposed yo just taking away tech
I honestly feel like they should add more pets that use ailments, or making it so that pepper lets you survive peanut. Maybe that would make it more unique
With the title and the “buy one of your own” it felt a lil like a Skootie heel turn 😂
More Ideas for Unicorn/Mythical pack:
Phoenix Chick - 3/1 - Tier 1
Level 1: Buy --> Gain +1 gold.
Level 2: Buy --> Gain +2 gold.
Level 3: Buy --> Gain +3 gold.
Hippocampus - 1/3 - Tier 2
Level 1: Start of Turn --> Give shop pets +1 attack.
Level 2: Start of Turn --> Give shop pets +2 attack.
Level 3: Start of Turn --> Give shop pets +3 attack.
Kitsune - 4/5 - Tier 3
Level 1: Eats Tier 1 Food --> Give adjacent friends +1 attack and +1 health.
Level 2: Eats Tier 1 Food --> Give adjacent friends +2 attack and +2 health.
Level 3: Eats Tier 1 Food --> Give adjacent friends +3 attack and +3 health.
Chimera - 3/2 - Tier 4
Level 1: Faint --> Summon one 2/2 snake and one 3/3 lion.
Level 2: Faint --> Summon one 4/4 snake and one 6/6 lion.
Level 3: Faint --> Summon one 6/6 snake and one 9/9 lion.
Wyvern - 4/7 - Tier 5
Level 1: Start of Battle --> Has a 33% chance to remove all enemy perks.
Level 2: Start of Battle --> Has a 66% chance to remove all enemy perks.
Level 3: Start of Battle --> Has a 99% chance to remove all enemy perks.
Nemean Lion - 8/9 - Tier 6
Level 1: Start of Turn --> Increase sloth chance by 1%.
Level 2: Start of Turn --> Increase sloth chance by 2%.
Level 3: Start of Turn --> Increase sloth chance by 3%.
(Sloth Chance: The probablility of finding a sloth every roll.)
Why go wyvern when you can just give them weakness
@@sethharrington305 How would you make it better?
1 hp and a dream for most of that second round lol. GGs
Why stop there? Why not add a honey badger maxed out in the back?Become the villain that you aspire to be!
True story btw that was my first win
How would you feel if peanut was single use like the melon? And then maybe scorpion ability is level 1 gain peanut at end of turn.level 2 gain it at start of turn. level 3 gain it on summon?
Or maybe level one gain it on buy. Level 2 gain it on summon. level 3 gain it on knockout.
Level 1: Buy -> Gain Peanut
Level 2: Summon -> Gain Peanut
Level 3: Faint -> Summon Level 2 Scorpion
That last game was cracked holy cow
Maybe scorpion triggers on level up?
Scorpion is awesome, I got two tier 3 medals yesterday in one match with two scorpions on my team. Only one of them had a mushroom.
Skoottie there is a very over Powered combo with two stegosaurus in the back and three slugs the one in front with no mushroom
And the two other slugs with mushrooms
The simple fix is honestly just removing it from Turtle Pack and leaving it as a custom only pack, especially since customs seem to be pretty much a competitive nightmare anyways
Maybe they could increase its stats and give it these ablities
Lvl 1: Before attack gain steak (triggers 1 time)
Lvl 2: Before attack gain steak (triggers 2 times)
Lvl 3: Before attack gain steak (triggers 3 times)
Really trying to push camel on you in game 1 😂
make peanut single use like steak and make scorpion gain peanut before attack with a trigger limit that goes up on lvl
I feel like the scorpion is for the most part fine where it is. IMO its meant to counter people that put all their eggs in 1 basket, IE put all their stats into one big pet that just bulldozes the entire opposition. Personally I think where it gets a little too good is the fact that a mushroom works with it, which means easy counters too it like watermelon don't work against it when perhaps they should. So if it were to be changed I think that it should just get peanut only when summoned in the shop not during battle.
i think that scorp should be changed to triggers, like
lvl 1 - before attack gain peanut. triggers 1 time
lvl 2 - before attack gain peanut. triggers 2 times
lvl 3 - before attack gain peanut. triggers 3 times
I personally don’t think scorpion needs to be needed that badly
I feel like there are a lot of counters to it
If it did maybe level 1 on buy level 2 would be on summon
Level 3 on summon would be way too nerfed , nobody would ever use it at that point
Sounds like a problem with peanut as opposed to scorpion
Scorpion: Start of battle, gain 15/20/30 attack.
Maybe change Scorp to LVL 1 give meat LVL 2 steak and LVL 3 Peanut
just don't put your strongest unit first,problem solved. ive been playing ranked and scrop is FINE
My opinion is controversial. I dont think the packs should play against each other in ranked. It limits the design space. My best metaphor is with magic. Ice age shouldnt be able to play with every set. But when i wanna play ice age i shouldnt have to deal with ravnica. Thats why we should have customs ranks for making busted packs. Than each pack has its own identity and doesnt havent to be completely balanced around other packs
I would like to see the pill slightly change. If you pill a pet with held food, it removes the held food. If no held food, it works as it does now.
Honestly not a bad idea. The one part is that it ruins some strats with mushroom+pill. Maybe pill works as intended if mushroom is held?
Seal should give random attack and health like the old dog
Peanut should just work once like steak and only spawns when bought
would it be viable to climb the ranks by using draw strategies and staying alive to finish in the top, but not necessarily winning?
I don't think so, cuz you need at least top 2 to get rank, so when it's 3 or 4 players left, someone will probably be trying to counter you already
@@Asanohahas Oh okay I didn’t know only top 2 gains points. In that case it’s probably not a problem. Otherwise it would be crazy
@@aperson6821 in the first game of this video he gets top 3 and doesnt win or lose rank
@aperson6821 although it was only 5 people, so idk actually
yeah its like impossible to win with that first team 😢
Why'd they change worm like they did? It seems so much worse than the old one lol
Watching SAP versus and ranked is so boring compared to arena dude, just sitting watching the timer countdown sucks. Agreed that you should be able to swap positions while waiting at the very least
What if scorpion had attack capped at 20? Just an idea.
Yeaaaa🎉🎉🎉
They could just take scorp out of comp like how every other game changes the loot pool for competitive
Literally just disable Scorpion in ranked
Honestly I don't what should be done about the scorpion.