What a great episode, Sam and Ashley. Somewhat of a unique subject, too, I think. Took me right back to my own days in this scene; so many things that I recognized. For example, I still can't listen to psytrance to this day, just makes me feel really bad and kind of eerie. On the other hand, I don't share all of Ashleys perspectives. I was personally much more into mdma and still enjoy drum and bass very much, maybe this will sound weird but it can still even make me feel a little high in a way, just the music alone. Guess it's the intense experiences that are so heavily associated with it and then stick with you even years later. In fact, I don't have very outspoken or negative feelings toward mdma even today. When it comes to the psychedelics, I'm also not as comfortable taking such a strong stance against it. I may have not have been so involved with them as Ashley, and so may not have had so many negative experiences (although, certainly, I've still experienced those as well), but I don't know, to say it's by definition bad I still find difficult so I remain more neutral about it. I do also agree with the point that these experiences in a way generate feelings which later turn out to be ungrounded, eg, with the supposed lsd inspired "profundities," that really had me laughing because it's so on point and recognizable. In a way, it's the same with mdma and this feeling of "love" for people that it can generate, but when it starts losing its strength, you will just feel kind of awkward about it because in reality you don't really connect with some of those people at all, usually complete strangers anyway. I don't know, I've lived some very destructive years in my life, where I was lost and reckless, I think, stemming from a desire to just feel *something*, and so sure, all of that wasn't good, but I can't put all that on some drugs, it really was mostly my own doing. It's like how religion can make someone a terrible person. Well, sure, if that's how you apply it. Likewise, if you have some experiences on drugs, it can be for the bad and for the good. Looking at some things going on in the Christian charismatic world, that can make me feel a lot more uncomfortable than some some people having some psychedelic experience. For me, it helped me escape reality at times, and to some this may sound inherently bad, but I don't think this is always the case. Ultimately, though, I also made many mistakes and so I did leave all of this scene behind during my journey into religion (I'm a unitarian Christian), and this was a good thing, but I would say the drugs themselves weren't necessarily the issue, but just everything surrounding this life that came with it. I guess all this sounds like rambling, but the episode really brought back many memories for me and just wanted to let out some feelings in writing if that's ok. One final observation regarding the "spiritual" perspectives of people that are in that kind of world. Speaking just for myself, I was an atheist and didn't really ponder the idea of God at all, but I feel like I may have been an outlier. Indeed, many at least held a belief in some "force" or "source" giving meaning to life and existence. I also noticed--something that I did not really grasp at the time--a somewhat unusual fusion of vaguely Jewish ideas and concepts and kind of more woo-woo psychedelic ideas. The presence of Jewish people was extremely prevalent in the circles I found myself in. Not orthodox folks, of course, but still, some of these ideas were still there in the background if that makes any sense. Again, at the time I had no such understanding of things, but this is a connection I made later. Just recently had a chat with some Jewish folks that were in this kind of scene, and it was kind of special how I could explain my beliefs, knowing both Judaism as well as this psychedelic world they were a part of. It was like I could articulate everything so well and we were speaking one and the same language. Point is, I do think people having a mindset of at least believing in some vague concept of God can already make conversations so much easier compared to the average atheist who will just not be able to grasp what in the world you're on about. Thanks again for the episode, real quality content!
still not down on the tarot thing. Some things are just tricks of the devil. God can even outfox the devil and use his tools against, but that doesn't mean we should use them
I find it interesting how uniquely different my experience with psychedelics has been when compared to the majority of people in this little corner. I really appreciate Ashley for sharing her experiences and can see why psychedelics were not the answer for her. I agree with her that the Eastern woo-woo stuff that is associated with the psychedelic movement is often garbage advice for most people. My psychedelic revelations have all led me closer and closer to the orthodox/trinitarian understanding of Jesus Christ. To be totally honest I wanted to find aliens and strange entities, not Jesus. Until I started my own exploration I thought all religion was nonsense made up by cult leaders. Now I'm certain that God exists because I can feel his presence in that deepest and mysterious part of my unconscious mind. He's made me let go of my problems with "historical" and "literal" interpretations of the faith and embrace the mysterious ways he is changing the universe through the Christian story.
In a way, psychedelics is the ultimate expression of indiscriminate vulnerability, as it nakedly exposes you to the spiritual realm, more often than not leading one into deception. This raises an important question: What do you hope to achieve when you use psychedelics? What is your goal? More often than not, the answer is an escape, catharsis. The intertwining of hedonistic impulses and deception is a common theme we see in culture. I hold a similar perspective regarding the internet. As a Christian, I believe that being publicly vulnerable is acceptable in so far as it stands as a testimony to your salvation in Christ. If the primary aim of your engagement is catharsis, then in my view it’s being misapplied. As it is with drugs, online openness at first feels enchanting and liberating but as tolerance develops, greater engagement become necessary to recapture that initial ecstasy. In the end, the focus on immediate gratification jeopardizes long-term well-being. In other words, please avoid treating the internet like a psychedelic because you'll end up with psychedelic rewards. It just may take some time for those "rewards" to manifest.
@@transfigured3673I genuinely believe this to be true. Given that pantheism is often described as a common experience during psychedelic journeys, it's reasonable to suggest that dialogos could foster similar beliefs-that God exists within human connections, much like in pantheism, where God is seen as synonymous with all created things, including humanity. When we examine the link between pantheism and nihilism, it becomes clear that something dialogos might inadvertently sustain nihilistic views over time.
I find it annoying to hear that if you try psychedelics a few times you’re into a new believe system. An hour into the podcast I hear that your guest is really influenced and or put off by books she reads at those times. Psychedelics to me, showed me there was something bigger then me, and I had an incredible mystical experience where I think I was in the presence of a divine light. Whatever that may mean. I’m to small to understand it, I cannot comprehend what god is. But I know god is real now. Which is enough for me. I can bow down in reference in a church or in whatever temple. I do agree one should watch out for mental addiction. Because I found out in my 4th trip that I was just trying to get the same experience I had before. Which made me quit :). Christ consciousness though, seems like a very beautiful way of looking at it as an attainable level Not just psychedelic world talks about it. Also the Christian, yogic, and Buddhist culture. What I want to say, I guess is, don’t think you now have the whole truth. Stay open minded ❤
I recall an NDE experience recounted by a Vietnam veteran where when referring to heaven Jesus told him something like “if you try to take this you will never have it.” I got the feeling he meant don’t take your own life to get back here but after listening to this I think it might well apply to psychedelic experience, yoga, etc, equally well. Great interview. 👍
49:52 exorcism/spiritual warfare 101 - sounds like you were dealing with a familiar spirit that wanted to come back because you were its "house". And when you called on Jesus, you put up the No Vacancy sign 😅
Umm I don’t think you can necessarily or completely reduce the she old religious eastern traditions who have their own stories , even for children’ and their way of incarnating the material whilst honouring and experiencing the transcendent to the new age psychedelic lmovement. Find the wisdom in your own tradition yes but keep a level of humility perhaps in the way that God works in the world. I agree though that messing with the way our brains process our present reality is not a good idea.
What a great episode, Sam and Ashley. Somewhat of a unique subject, too, I think.
Took me right back to my own days in this scene; so many things that I recognized. For example, I still can't listen to psytrance to this day, just makes me feel really bad and kind of eerie. On the other hand, I don't share all of Ashleys perspectives. I was personally much more into mdma and still enjoy drum and bass very much, maybe this will sound weird but it can still even make me feel a little high in a way, just the music alone. Guess it's the intense experiences that are so heavily associated with it and then stick with you even years later. In fact, I don't have very outspoken or negative feelings toward mdma even today. When it comes to the psychedelics, I'm also not as comfortable taking such a strong stance against it. I may have not have been so involved with them as Ashley, and so may not have had so many negative experiences (although, certainly, I've still experienced those as well), but I don't know, to say it's by definition bad I still find difficult so I remain more neutral about it.
I do also agree with the point that these experiences in a way generate feelings which later turn out to be ungrounded, eg, with the supposed lsd inspired "profundities," that really had me laughing because it's so on point and recognizable. In a way, it's the same with mdma and this feeling of "love" for people that it can generate, but when it starts losing its strength, you will just feel kind of awkward about it because in reality you don't really connect with some of those people at all, usually complete strangers anyway.
I don't know, I've lived some very destructive years in my life, where I was lost and reckless, I think, stemming from a desire to just feel *something*, and so sure, all of that wasn't good, but I can't put all that on some drugs, it really was mostly my own doing. It's like how religion can make someone a terrible person. Well, sure, if that's how you apply it. Likewise, if you have some experiences on drugs, it can be for the bad and for the good. Looking at some things going on in the Christian charismatic world, that can make me feel a lot more uncomfortable than some some people having some psychedelic experience. For me, it helped me escape reality at times, and to some this may sound inherently bad, but I don't think this is always the case. Ultimately, though, I also made many mistakes and so I did leave all of this scene behind during my journey into religion (I'm a unitarian Christian), and this was a good thing, but I would say the drugs themselves weren't necessarily the issue, but just everything surrounding this life that came with it. I guess all this sounds like rambling, but the episode really brought back many memories for me and just wanted to let out some feelings in writing if that's ok.
One final observation regarding the "spiritual" perspectives of people that are in that kind of world. Speaking just for myself, I was an atheist and didn't really ponder the idea of God at all, but I feel like I may have been an outlier. Indeed, many at least held a belief in some "force" or "source" giving meaning to life and existence. I also noticed--something that I did not really grasp at the time--a somewhat unusual fusion of vaguely Jewish ideas and concepts and kind of more woo-woo psychedelic ideas. The presence of Jewish people was extremely prevalent in the circles I found myself in. Not orthodox folks, of course, but still, some of these ideas were still there in the background if that makes any sense. Again, at the time I had no such understanding of things, but this is a connection I made later. Just recently had a chat with some Jewish folks that were in this kind of scene, and it was kind of special how I could explain my beliefs, knowing both Judaism as well as this psychedelic world they were a part of. It was like I could articulate everything so well and we were speaking one and the same language. Point is, I do think people having a mindset of at least believing in some vague concept of God can already make conversations so much easier compared to the average atheist who will just not be able to grasp what in the world you're on about. Thanks again for the episode, real quality content!
Thanks for sharing your story!
1:27:30 Tarot is another example of the Radical Implications of the Incarnation
still not down on the tarot thing. Some things are just tricks of the devil. God can even outfox the devil and use his tools against, but that doesn't mean we should use them
@ how much have you looked into it?
@@WhiteStoneName Hi Luke, I lived it for years, I have to gently but firmly agree with Sam
Thanks to Ashely for sharing your testimony.
I find it interesting how uniquely different my experience with psychedelics has been when compared to the majority of people in this little corner. I really appreciate Ashley for sharing her experiences and can see why psychedelics were not the answer for her. I agree with her that the Eastern woo-woo stuff that is associated with the psychedelic movement is often garbage advice for most people.
My psychedelic revelations have all led me closer and closer to the orthodox/trinitarian understanding of Jesus Christ. To be totally honest I wanted to find aliens and strange entities, not Jesus. Until I started my own exploration I thought all religion was nonsense made up by cult leaders. Now I'm certain that God exists because I can feel his presence in that deepest and mysterious part of my unconscious mind.
He's made me let go of my problems with "historical" and "literal" interpretations of the faith and embrace the mysterious ways he is changing the universe through the Christian story.
Well if psychedelics led you to believe in the Trinity than I know there is something wrong with them!
Third video in a week! I like it. Thanks Ashley for sharing your story.
In a way, psychedelics is the ultimate expression of indiscriminate vulnerability, as it nakedly exposes you to the spiritual realm, more often than not leading one into deception. This raises an important question: What do you hope to achieve when you use psychedelics? What is your goal? More often than not, the answer is an escape, catharsis. The intertwining of hedonistic impulses and deception is a common theme we see in culture.
I hold a similar perspective regarding the internet. As a Christian, I believe that being publicly vulnerable is acceptable in so far as it stands as a testimony to your salvation in Christ. If the primary aim of your engagement is catharsis, then in my view it’s being misapplied. As it is with drugs, online openness at first feels enchanting and liberating but as tolerance develops, greater engagement become necessary to recapture that initial ecstasy. In the end, the focus on immediate gratification jeopardizes long-term well-being.
In other words, please avoid treating the internet like a psychedelic because you'll end up with psychedelic rewards. It just may take some time for those "rewards" to manifest.
Interesting comparison
@@transfigured3673I genuinely believe this to be true. Given that pantheism is often described as a common experience during psychedelic journeys, it's reasonable to suggest that dialogos could foster similar beliefs-that God exists within human connections, much like in pantheism, where God is seen as synonymous with all created things, including humanity. When we examine the link between pantheism and nihilism, it becomes clear that something dialogos might inadvertently sustain nihilistic views over time.
The connection between nihilism and pantheism I thought was very helpful.
Thanks Paul
Yes! This is a really important point I try to drive home with all my students. And Ashley communicates it so powerfully in her book.
1:36:00 re: Sam’s ability to have good insights and put good words to things.
This is a compliment that he’s never heard before.
The gift of interpretation of tongues
I find it annoying to hear that if you try psychedelics a few times you’re into a new believe system. An hour into the podcast I hear that your guest is really influenced and or put off by books she reads at those times.
Psychedelics to me, showed me there was something bigger then me, and I had an incredible mystical experience where I think I was in the presence of a divine light. Whatever that may mean.
I’m to small to understand it, I cannot comprehend what god is. But I know god is real now. Which is enough for me. I can bow down in reference in a church or in whatever temple.
I do agree one should watch out for mental addiction. Because I found out in my 4th trip that I was just trying to get the same experience I had before. Which made me quit :).
Christ consciousness though, seems like a very beautiful way of looking at it as an attainable level Not just psychedelic world talks about it. Also the Christian, yogic, and Buddhist culture.
What I want to say, I guess is, don’t think you now have the whole truth. Stay open minded ❤
Jesus is the truth and the way
I find it interesting that you described the explanation of oneness as stupid. Apparently you haven't experienced the one mind.
Maybe your experience of oneness was paired with a false and unearned sense of profundity causing you to believe a lie
@transfigured3673 lol. That's quite the projection.
@@transfigured3673 Are you saying that “Oneness” is a lie ? I thought God was All in All.
1:07:00 re:profundity on drugs.
But…if the Incarnation is true, isn’t everything (not) profound?
Not yet
@@transfigured3673 (lol, that made me chuckle)
I recall an NDE experience recounted by a Vietnam veteran where when referring to heaven Jesus told him something like “if you try to take this you will never have it.” I got the feeling he meant don’t take your own life to get back here but after listening to this I think it might well apply to psychedelic experience, yoga, etc, equally well. Great interview. 👍
Thanks for watching and fascinating story
Ya... like taking the forbidden fruit when you were told ...no.
49:52 exorcism/spiritual warfare 101 - sounds like you were dealing with a familiar spirit that wanted to come back because you were its "house". And when you called on Jesus, you put up the No Vacancy sign 😅
Sounds about right
Umm I don’t think you can necessarily or completely reduce the she old religious eastern traditions who have their own stories , even for children’ and their way of incarnating the material whilst honouring and experiencing the transcendent to the new age psychedelic lmovement. Find the wisdom in your own tradition yes but keep a level of humility perhaps in the way that God works in the world. I agree though that messing with the way our brains process our present reality is not a good idea.