According to the rulings on gatherer, Fractured sanity will not trigger mothman 42 times, but only one time with possibility to put a +1/+1 counter for up to 42 creatures
Exactly what I was coming to say this is why you prefer stuff like mesmeric orb because each permanent is a different instance of mill so you can put every counter on mothman
It would trigger Mothman 42 triggers, you just can’t put all 42 +1/+1 Counters on Mothman you have to put them on different creatures so if you have 42 creatures on board all 42 will get counters if you don’t have 42 creatures then it will stop +1/+1 counter once you max out on creatures
rad counters mill the amount of counters, Then you take damg to the non-land and remove that many counters for each non-land milled. hope this helps because you could have 5 mill 4 lands and a non-land, take 1 and lose one counter. so your still left with 4 counters. 1:22
I just played for the time Commander night at my local and bought the precon an hour before. Upgraded like nine cards including mesmeric orb and Moldrotha but otherwise out of the box. Had a great time playing it over three games and had some nice success. I like the idea of milling with this commander a lot. Thanks for the idea and I might consider that. 🍻
Took apart my Tasha deck and used those cards to build out the precon i upgraded it to keep the fallout flavor i did add stifle effects to deal with graveyard hate cards instead because i did want to use counter spells. But i was trying to keep it around mid casual.
*prewatch comment* I recently upgraded my Mothman deck and I've been having so much fun with it. It's actually present healthy gameplay. All my friends loved the games I played with it. It's powerful, flavorful and fun. I can't wait to see what you do with the deck.
My build is mill/poision/proliferation/with a pinch of reanimator adding bloodroot apothecary because even with dockside gone many are still creating food/treasure/etc along with volraths stronghold for recursion and cathonian nightmare since energy is an archtype that can be proliferated while having them worry about mothman growing at the same time
quick clarification: mothman reads one or more so he doesn't activate for every card milled just to every instance of mill. mesmiric orb creates a new instance of mill 1 every time a player untaps a permanent so he would trigger x times adding 1 counter to 1 creature each time. a card like keening stone is 1 instance of mill x, where x is the number of cards in target players graveyard, meaning mothman triggers 1 time to put 1 counter on up to x creatures. separate question: with the amount of token generation in this deck would you see any benefit from altar of dementia and altar of the brood or is there a better card they were cut for?
man i pulled a scapeshift in my thunder junction boosters and immediately decided to make the must fucked up and evil manabases at the table for my mothman deck, i need a copy of lumra, but aftermath analyst has also been one of the most valuable cards in the deck, looping that card is sooooo fun lol, spelunking is an awesome ramp piece as well that helps the lands be usable. otherwise we ended up with a lot of the same ideas! the only card i have which you didnt mention is altar of the brood which is an absolute mothman staple super awesome card.
also i had no clue mothman can commit crimes! i dont have a ton of payoffs for that but with that knowledge i can get some players off my back by giving them counters. a lot of my table runs graveyard decks so it already sort of felt like group hug but now i can definitely play that angle a little stronger!!
I added Nexus of Fate to my deck as a form of insurance incase someone else is playing Mill, since it shuffles itself back into the library. And its an extra turn spell whenever needed.
I don't quite understand the Food Chain combo. If your commander coast 4 mana and then you remove it to Food Chain would you not be at 5 mana and need to spend 6 mana to resumen him again? This would leave you spending 1 extra mana every time you do this no?
First cmc doesn't exist anymore is replaced by mana value since strix haven, second, nope tax doesn't change mana value, mana value is the printed mana symbols on the upper right corner of the card (for anything with like overload the mana value still is the printed in the corned not the overloaded cost payed) now with the case of food chain the combo just net you inifinte mana, you just produce eventually 1 million of every color you need so commander tax is kinda irrelevant
@@warbloodful this is old, but for reference to the food chain combo you are not getting the infinite mana from the commander you are getting it from exiling either eternal scourge or mist hollow griffin with food chain (since they can be recast from exile) then using that infinite mana to cast the wise Mothman then exiling it with food chain for infinite etb, either killing with dmg from rads or milling out opponents. Requirements for food chain commanders is green blue (and/or red with Squee, the immortal) and a commander that wins the game if you can cast it infinitely or use the infinite mana to win with it.
YT isn't letting me reply to anyone's comments so the best way to look at rad mill is one trigger per mill. Landfall on a ruin crab, opps mill a total of 9 cards, 6 non-lands= remove 6 rads, lose 6 life, add a counter to up to 6 creatures. Even if all 3 opps milled 2 non-lands each it's not 3 instances of 2 counters, it's total per instance milled.
Not every mill takes away rads and make damage, just the mill from the rad counters, the mill from a ruin crab would do anything to the counters, so no damage or counters lost, but it will trigger the +1/+1 trigger of the mothman.
I don't believe you thought this deck out as well as you thought. You have a bunch of fat that doesn't really contribute to a win, like Herd Ballot. It's nice, but doesn't synergize with much. And the Voidwalker doesn't trigger Mothman, which is a waste. The biggest problem is Food Chain does not combo with Mothman. You can sack Mothman to Food Chain once, but you only get 5 mana of ONE color and Mothman requires 3 different colors. Not to mention, Commander Tax quickly stops this from being infinite as well.
Eternal Scourge must be on the battlefield. Food Chain must be on the battlefield. To start the combo or Food Chain must be on the battlefield. Misthollow Griffin must be on the battlefield. To start the combo once you get “enough” mana then you start sacrificing Mothman to Food Chain, but you always get the mana value +1 when you sacrifice to Food Chain so the loops don’t have to go to far and with Eternal Scourge or Misthollow they’re infinite etb, ltb, and storm counts
Irrelevant with the exile sacs of the scourge or the Griffin you produce infinite mana of the three colors you need, doesn't matter how much the comma der cost, you have that mana
Doesn’t food chain not work as an infinite because of commander tax? You exile mothman and you have 5 floating mana but to resummon mothman he would be 6 mana, or am I just wrong?
Imma have to disagree with the whole "BEST" thing. In my experience, Phenax, God of Deception is the BEST mill commander. Being Indestructible and not a creature with low devotion makes him harder to remove. Bigger creatures take out bigger chunks of people's libraries.
According to the rulings on gatherer, Fractured sanity will not trigger mothman 42 times, but only one time with possibility to put a +1/+1 counter for up to 42 creatures
Sounds right. Otherwise he’d have to mill once, 42 times.
Exactly what I was coming to say this is why you prefer stuff like mesmeric orb because each permanent is a different instance of mill so you can put every counter on mothman
It would trigger Mothman 42 triggers, you just can’t put all 42 +1/+1 Counters on Mothman you have to put them on different creatures so if you have 42 creatures on board all 42 will get counters if you don’t have 42 creatures then it will stop +1/+1 counter once you max out on creatures
@@victhebum2836 it's one trigger with up to 42 target creatures, no the same as 42 triggers.
rad counters mill the amount of counters, Then you take damg to the non-land and remove that many counters for each non-land milled. hope this helps because you could have 5 mill 4 lands and a non-land, take 1 and lose one counter. so your still left with 4 counters. 1:22
@@Masterchief1621 yeah... this is kind of key to why Rad counters are the best form of mill
I just played for the time Commander night at my local and bought the precon an hour before. Upgraded like nine cards including mesmeric orb and Moldrotha but otherwise out of the box. Had a great time playing it over three games and had some nice success. I like the idea of milling with this commander a lot. Thanks for the idea and I might consider that. 🍻
Adding altar of brood goes insane with Zellix and its overall good value
Thank you for the video, both mothman and marneus from universe beyond have been my favourite commander deck
Took apart my Tasha deck and used those cards to build out the precon i upgraded it to keep the fallout flavor i did add stifle effects to deal with graveyard hate cards instead because i did want to use counter spells. But i was trying to keep it around mid casual.
Love to see you in the edh sphere Shaf! Always feelsnlike home hearing you talking about mikl strats. Deck lolks like a blast!
*prewatch comment* I recently upgraded my Mothman deck and I've been having so much fun with it. It's actually present healthy gameplay. All my friends loved the games I played with it. It's powerful, flavorful and fun. I can't wait to see what you do with the deck.
care to show your list too?
My build is mill/poision/proliferation/with a pinch of reanimator adding bloodroot apothecary because even with dockside gone many are still creating food/treasure/etc along with volraths stronghold for recursion and cathonian nightmare since energy is an archtype that can be proliferated while having them worry about mothman growing at the same time
Thank you for your continued mill guidance
I'd like to bring attention to Crosstown courier, Towering-Wave Mystic, Phenax, and Imperious Mindbreaker.
quick clarification: mothman reads one or more so he doesn't activate for every card milled just to every instance of mill. mesmiric orb creates a new instance of mill 1 every time a player untaps a permanent so he would trigger x times adding 1 counter to 1 creature each time. a card like keening stone is 1 instance of mill x, where x is the number of cards in target players graveyard, meaning mothman triggers 1 time to put 1 counter on up to x creatures.
separate question: with the amount of token generation in this deck would you see any benefit from altar of dementia and altar of the brood or is there a better card they were cut for?
man i pulled a scapeshift in my thunder junction boosters and immediately decided to make the must fucked up and evil manabases at the table for my mothman deck, i need a copy of lumra, but aftermath analyst has also been one of the most valuable cards in the deck, looping that card is sooooo fun lol, spelunking is an awesome ramp piece as well that helps the lands be usable.
otherwise we ended up with a lot of the same ideas! the only card i have which you didnt mention is altar of the brood which is an absolute mothman staple super awesome card.
also i had no clue mothman can commit crimes! i dont have a ton of payoffs for that but with that knowledge i can get some players off my back by giving them counters. a lot of my table runs graveyard decks so it already sort of felt like group hug but now i can definitely play that angle a little stronger!!
I added Nexus of Fate to my deck as a form of insurance incase someone else is playing Mill, since it shuffles itself back into the library. And its an extra turn spell whenever needed.
No Sheoldred Whispering one and Sheoldred with enchantment? I put them as a kind of reanimation cheat.
I don't quite understand the Food Chain combo. If your commander coast 4 mana and then you remove it to Food Chain would you not be at 5 mana and need to spend 6 mana to resumen him again?
This would leave you spending 1 extra mana every time you do this no?
you need misthollow griffin or eternal scourge on board for the food chain combo
In regards to Food Chain; Does the 'commander tax' actually increase the cards CMC? Or is it a special rule that simply applies to the command zone?
First cmc doesn't exist anymore is replaced by mana value since strix haven, second, nope tax doesn't change mana value, mana value is the printed mana symbols on the upper right corner of the card (for anything with like overload the mana value still is the printed in the corned not the overloaded cost payed) now with the case of food chain the combo just net you inifinte mana, you just produce eventually 1 million of every color you need so commander tax is kinda irrelevant
i dont get it, you pay 4 to cast mothman and then you sac him for 5 mana but after that mothman needs 6 mana to be cast again... im missing something
@@warbloodful this is old, but for reference to the food chain combo you are not getting the infinite mana from the commander you are getting it from exiling either eternal scourge or mist hollow griffin with food chain (since they can be recast from exile) then using that infinite mana to cast the wise Mothman then exiling it with food chain for infinite etb, either killing with dmg from rads or milling out opponents. Requirements for food chain commanders is green blue (and/or red with Squee, the immortal) and a commander that wins the game if you can cast it infinitely or use the infinite mana to win with it.
YT isn't letting me reply to anyone's comments so the best way to look at rad mill is one trigger per mill. Landfall on a ruin crab, opps mill a total of 9 cards, 6 non-lands= remove 6 rads, lose 6 life, add a counter to up to 6 creatures. Even if all 3 opps milled 2 non-lands each it's not 3 instances of 2 counters, it's total per instance milled.
Not every mill takes away rads and make damage, just the mill from the rad counters, the mill from a ruin crab would do anything to the counters, so no damage or counters lost, but it will trigger the +1/+1 trigger of the mothman.
What are your opinions on the new nadu and the eldrazi lizard from modern horizon 3 in this deck?
Put the video link in the Primer of the deck list on moxfield
My suggestion to all of you. Nadu is insane in this deck and allows you to combo with crab landfall mill.
Yeah I added nadu as well in the 99. Great addition
Whenever I see any kind of counter mechanic in EDH, I think proliferate. I blame toxic/infect for this thought pattern.
Foodchain and Mothman won't go infinite by itself, you forgot about the tax every cast from command zone, food chain wouldn't keep up
I don't believe you thought this deck out as well as you thought. You have a bunch of fat that doesn't really contribute to a win, like Herd Ballot. It's nice, but doesn't synergize with much. And the Voidwalker doesn't trigger Mothman, which is a waste. The biggest problem is Food Chain does not combo with Mothman. You can sack Mothman to Food Chain once, but you only get 5 mana of ONE color and Mothman requires 3 different colors. Not to mention, Commander Tax quickly stops this from being infinite as well.
I dont think food chain and mothman works due to command tax doesn’t increase moth mans converted mana value.
Eternal Scourge must be on the battlefield. Food Chain must be on the battlefield. To start the combo or Food Chain must be on the battlefield. Misthollow Griffin must be on the battlefield. To start the combo once you get “enough” mana then you start sacrificing Mothman to Food Chain, but you always get the mana value +1 when you sacrifice to Food Chain so the loops don’t have to go to far and with Eternal Scourge or Misthollow they’re infinite etb, ltb, and storm counts
Irrelevant with the exile sacs of the scourge or the Griffin you produce infinite mana of the three colors you need, doesn't matter how much the comma der cost, you have that mana
Doesn’t food chain not work as an infinite because of commander tax? You exile mothman and you have 5 floating mana but to resummon mothman he would be 6 mana, or am I just wrong?
i was thinking the same...😢
you just loop for infinite mana of every color starting with blue...
with misthollow griffin or eternal scourge
Imma have to disagree with the whole "BEST" thing. In my experience, Phenax, God of Deception is the BEST mill commander. Being Indestructible and not a creature with low devotion makes him harder to remove. Bigger creatures take out bigger chunks of people's libraries.
This wants nadu