This is climbing gear?
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- UFO's are fabric wedges with climbing shoe rubber that are between a nut and a cam. They are used in Czech Republic and some parts of Germany and Switzerland where the rock is so fragile that they outlawed metal protection. Would you whip on these?
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Test setup
02:34 Human Testing
04:55 Full force
07:36 Slipping
09:05 Slow Pulling
11:18 Bonus Test
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The recurring joke with Larry, "would you whip on that?" and "I wouldn't go up there," is probably my favorite part of the channel now.
I didn't have to watch the video to know that you are correct. I certainly do not have whatever piece of climbing gear you are featuring. I still want to see it break, though.
I have no climbing gear but still love watching your stuff. So youre definitely correct!
We use UFO´s and UFORings´s on our Czech sandstone, but they are strongly disliked by traditional climbers here, because they are making some routes too safe to climb (which means too easy to climb)...
difficult and dangerous are two different things. trad climber is an endangered species.
@@boudibla4011 It is seen more like respecting the route and people who made it (always bottom-up, the trad way). For the same reasons, routes are almost never made safer by adding more rings (even at sketchy places). Since this is a part of climbing ethics at sands, and people love to climb them, trad climbers are not endangered species :)
Honestly free soloing is probably about as safe as the soft passive pro yall use over there. At lease with free soloing there would never be an illusion about whether you will survive the fall
Some notes about ufos and the tests.
1.) In some areas, the ones with rubber are no longer allowed, and they have to be all textile. I have some of each
2.) Placing one-handed definitely takes practice. My best results are placing with the outside sleeve loosely on the core, placing in and pulling the sling so the core slides deeper into the sleeve. With a constriction, it is easier. The big ones in a parallel crack can be super annoying as you have to have the sleeve at the right depth.
3.) They are pretty hard-wearing, but the rock here is so grippy and abrasive that I notice the slings getting very fuzzy very quickly.
4.) Yet to whip on one but I know people who have. depends on the placement if they hold. in a good constriction would whip. well, I guess I've fallen seconding with a ufo as part of the anchor, it moved but didn't pop.
5.) The small ones you had (blue slings) are pretty new, my friend has a set (I just have normal ones), and they are really useful. can feel more bomber than a knot.
I wonder if malleable materials do worse in the slow pulls since they deform over time. My friend hung his bodyweight off the smallest ufo placed between his doorframe and the wall but I think his doorframe made a cracking noise from the outward pressure. The biggest UFO chipped my tooth when I was an idiot and bit it's racking biner then dropped it so I could pass it from my outside hand to the inside hand to place in an offwidth. also in desperation, I have tried to fold and ufo over to work like a tricam when I couldn't place anything, this failed. Try racking up with a set of ufos, some slings, and knots, it's surprising how bulky it all is!
1) They are not allowed, but some climbers are still using them even there, because the rubber is more gentle to the rock. Rule is rule, but If you understand, why is the rule there, you have a clearer conscience, that you are doing best for the rock, not just headlessly follow the rules.
and they are strongly disliked by some traditional climbers here, because they are making some routes too safe to climb (which means too easy to climb)...
@ Imagine getting upset about rock climbing becoming safer
@@tophmyster I´ve tried having a dicussion with English climbers about this...
"Put some bolts in", I said, "you don´t have to use them, if tradition is more important to you."
"Do it", they said, "and we´ll come after you, and fuck you up."
@@1981stonemonkey Some people be crazy
Finally you tested them, I've been waiting for a long time :)
Well, in Saxony, you can't use cams. So knots or this are your only options. Maybe that's why I have absolutely no issue with the idea of whipping on these. It's what I'm used to.
When I climb in hard rock I have to skip every second ring because I don't have enough expresses for those darn rings every two meters.
I found this entertaining and educational. 9 out of 10, would watch you whip on sketchy sh!t.
They have the string on top so you can just hang in higher anchor above them( or pul on that) and get out the UFOS you whipped on. We once tested how much bomber UFO holds in pull. Basically four big guys hanging on it each on the next ones harness. Then one 13 year old kid pulled it out from toprope. Supergood feature.
Glad you are in the human testing phase, looking forward to more sketchy shit in the future!
This
A 1 meter,1yard,3ft. Drop on head or buttocks NEEDS a full head to toe check, likely a FSA (Focused spine assesment) though that is a treatment method "if" spine is damaged. Small note, but again, let the trained professionals do this, if/when necessary. 😊
That wasn't to sketchy, he didn't even have to bend his legs to stop his feet hitting the floor!!!! We used to do much more insane shit then this and yes, we actually had the "if your legs hadn't been bent you would have hit the floor" moment! I think the problem was that me and my climbing partner lacked that alarm in the brain that signals impending doom. I just changed the label to "impending fun"!! 😅
YES!! Keep these oddball test coming!!! Nice to see new gear, techniques and "real life" static scenarios!!
Doesn't really work in parallel cracks but it's pretty solid in constrictions ! I will never use one because I don't have to but that was quite interesting.
Woooooo! Submaximal pro tests! I love getting to see how sketchy gear actually behaves in realistic falls
I love these videos. I know this video doesn’t apply but, as a RA Level 3 the most difficult thing is getting a new level 1 that doesn’t know anything about climbing to trust the gear. You definitely help. I’m trying to get my hands on some beam clamps. I would love to send them in so you could pull test them. Most of our new guys are terrified to climb with beam clamps.
as far as I know there is no part of Switzerland where you have to use "soft" protection. BUUUUUUUT the part of Germany (and Czechia) where you are not allowed to use is the "Elbe Sandstone Mountains" with the German part being the "Saxon Switzerland" and the Chech part the "Chzech- or Bohemian Switzerland". Kinda confusing. Many parts of hilly or mountainous regions in Germany have the word Schweiz - Switzerland in their name to underscore their geology and topography.
Thanks for clarifying that!
How on earth did you manage to spell Czechia correctly once and butcher it twice afterwards. :D
@@davidredek9821 i am a german word butcher. I make word sausages
Nice to see Bobby again!
Thanks for this contribution of human testing. Greetings from México!
I have used them a bunch (from Germany) and also whipped on them. Your results pretty much reflect my experience / presumptions: absolutly bomber in a (slightly) v-shaped crack especially with the biger sizes but not trustworthy in -horizontal- parallel cracks. I end up using them instead of monkey fists (which don't work lol) in wide placements, I think of them more like huge nuts than cams, really.
I would definitely pick these over a monkey fist but only trust them as a nut placement too.
Pretty much the experience same for me, but one thing I have to disagree on: They work in horizontal cracks as they tilt and then jam with the "cam part" in there, if placed correctly. I suppose you meant parallel cracks?
Prefer them to monkey fists as they are easier to place and to remove and thus do not erode the sandstone quite as much. For the big ones, you can kick down on the wedge in order to really fasten the placement.
@HowNOT2: Great episode as always!
@@HowNOT2 they feel like they need less of a constriction than knots to work well too. also knots and ufos here seem less likely to be pulled out of place than nuts in harder rock somehow. I've never had rope drag pull one loose even when the rope fell into the same crack and tried to wedge itself between the ufo and the rock. The rope did leave a little wear patch on the rubber though.
Seen some about 5 years ago walking around in the valley with a bunch of ufos. I been curious since then how easy/hard they are to place/remove. Looks like a pain, but I guess it's better then no gear
@@Inubis9 You are right of course, I meant parallel. They are great for horizontal breaks.
What a great bonus clip!
Tough luck with that bet, Ryan, as I see the German/Czech sandstone community is going strong here :) I have some of those blobs of webbing as well, and place them from time to time here in the Elbe Sandstone area. I find them a nice addition to knots and really trust them in wider, slightly constricting places, where a knot would not be possible.
"I'm an expert. I've done this. Once."
Totally genius!
Fun fact: UFO´s with rubber on the outside are not allowed in Saxon sandstone (Germany).
Is that one of the areas you have to climb barefoot?
Thats not true, I've been living and climbing here in Saxony for a long time, and they are definitely allowed, with or without rubber.
@@svanmn_5035 recently, the rules changed to disallow the rubber ones. However, I don't know if people care. I don't want to have to replace the ones I have already but buying new ones I get without rubber now
@@andrewhunter6536 Was genau meinst du mit vor kurzem? Es stand seit ca 2013 so in den sbb regeln:
Als Sicherungsmittel dürfen Seil, Seilschlingen, Karabiner, Ringe, Nachholschäfte und Abseilösen benutzt werden.
Die Verwendung von Klemmkeilen und -geräten ist nur dann zulässig, wenn sie vollständig aus herkömmlichem textilem Schlingenmaterial bestehen.
Demnach wäre Gummi schon immer nicht zulässig, oder? Warum werden die dann so hergestellt? Und im Prinzip ist das ja das gleiche wie ein Kletterschuh, der ist ja auch Gummi. Unabhängig davon finde ich die ohne Gummi wesentlich besser und vor allem leichter zu legen. Vg
@@HowNOT2 We don't have to, but some certainly do.
I have a set ufos, and while I haven't whipped, I have rested and fallen on them. The vid supports my gut feeling - bomber in a constriction, sketchy in a parallel crack and useless in a flaring.
Thanks for the tests!
It was very helpful for me to see the real forces on the pieces when falling. Thanks from Germany!
A friend who's been climbing in Czech republic has an older version with no rubber. I would 100% whip and weirdly, there are a few shallow placements where it may adapt better than a similarly sized cam - mainly because they are less "wide" compared to their size. Also seemed very stable once well tucked in...almost too stable ;)
well, just to correct you…
- UFO with no rubber is no really “an older version”.
for example in germany you are not allowed to use rubber one. (institutions have to 1st discuss it and then decide)
in czech you can use both.
and the is a other company who make that (and i think they make beter one) obworks.
anyway old clasic sandstone climbers are mostly against it because using ufo’s its nit that sporty as placing cnots
fascinating unconventional protection, thank you for breaking it!
Very interesting bit of kit. I would love to see you test copperheads in the new crack jig
20 seconds in and excited to see UFOs! I've been curious about the bomberness for ages, can be tricky to place, so I hope they hold. The sandstone here is very grippy so maybe if they slip here I don't need to feel too bad
I'm just glad Larry is there to be the supervising adult
I higly appreciate testing of more practical scenarios. Bomber placement is bomber placment, but everyone using textile protection would like to know how it works in not ideal placements, like placing UFOs or slings down, in not so constricted crack.
I think, thet they usually raise quality of placement to higher level: good knot -> bomber UFO, not a good knot -> decent UFO that will probably hold but I don't want to test it. I mainly use different brand UFOs from Obrworks. The seem a bit lighter and with wider range, but also more constrictable, so they may fail under higher loads.
I don't even climb but I enjoy watching your content!
I carry like 8 ufos on my standard rack. Great gear. Especially since i really lack trust in knots. Saxon sandstone (a.k.a. Saxon swiss) is great fun, sadly face climbs are really sketchy since there is hardly any gear to place and rings are either nonexistent or runout like 10m. Totally get the „if your free soloing just do it free solo“ part 😂. But its great for the mind if you can convince yourself that that pice of wrapped up fabric is gonna save your ass. The 20kn test really makes me feel better, since i never place parallel cracks, they also work great on horizontal cracks, if you fiddle a good bit you can even place em tricam style but thats some sketchy stuff.
Its not čečia, but great test ♥♥
love the last test. i would totally whip on that. (with another piece 3 feet lower)
Nice Video! Also wanted to see this coming up.
I am using those ones for any size taller than a knot, but smaller than a monkey fists. Really works out great in sandstone areas. You definitely need to build trust on this gear if you use cams.
In case your are used to knots in sandstone it is convenient.
The bouldering shoe comment at the end caught me off guard! I cracked up!
The differences in slow pull and shock loading is wild!
What difference?
@@bobbyhutton1989 seemed like it wanted to slip a lot more in the slow pull and not on the shock loading.
@@bobbyhutton1989 From the video it seemed more likely to shear the rubber off with slow pulling. Maybe the quick load of a fall helps the wedge seat deeper into the outer shell preventing it from slowly slipping through the crack.
@@alifeoncechrisWe had 3 samples pull out in drop testing. Seems like they slipped. There wasn't a camera mounted to see how much the remaining ones slipped.
@@Pastamisticmaybe.
4:28 "Remember I'm an expert, I've done this ONCE." 😂 gotta start using that one more in conversation
Nice, I've been curious about UFOs for a long time! I have just one (I got as a gift), and I rarely place them because it's hard to find the right placement and it is a pain to put it in one handed. Mine doesn't have the rubber, just the textile part, but good to know that in a nice constricting crack it hold pretty well! But not on paralel cracks, so thanks for this information 😁👍🏼
Great tool by the way-if you know how to place it.
For the areas where you being left without cams makes your life way easier.
Great climbing
Peace😊👍😃
WAIT I just noticed a Leoni Meadows Jacket, did Bobby work there or something?
great to see them tested. I have weghted some with bodyweight und fallen on 2, but only small falls. if placed in a slight constriction they feel bomber. in the parallel crack not so much but still better than a knot
im not a climber but from watching many of your videos....i'd whip em all. seems super good enough from your testing.
Hey guys,
I'm anxiously waiting for drop tests simulating factor 1 falls on a not-new knotted dyneena sling. I've seen many guide-persons suggest using this method for abseiling after a multi pitch, the belay device attached to the first segment before the knot.
Is this something that has been done already? I usually don't miss a single video 😅
Awesome. Never saw these before
I would say the mode of operation is most similar to ballnuts.
There are also some rocks in Poland with sandstone ethics (near border with Czechia). I led one route with them but was too scared to test, and route was way below my technical limit.
Never seen any of this shit before. LOL. Thanks Ryan and Bobby.
And I was wondering hot to reuse my old bicycle tires…..I’m going to make one of those anchors. And test it.
Love it!
@Ryan, I think I've told you when we met in Lapporten that I would appreciate seeing you testing them.
Thanks for this Video.
I use them a lot at my local crack in germany. It's called saxonian (Saxony is a state of germany) Switzerland. Maybe that's where you got the idea with a "Switzerland has a spot" from.
There are two versions of ufos.
With and without rubber. The ones with rubber (as in the video) are technically illegal (yet widely used) since the local climbing rules say:
-only textile protection is allowed.
Since rubber is not textile its against the rules.
I remember big discussions in the community whether they should be allowed or not.
Main argument against them was that it makes climbing safer and (mentally) "easier". So now even (mentally) "weaker" climbers can climb routs which before where reserved only for a small elite of "strong" climbers....
Tradition is a wired thing.
Thanks for the Video, keep it up.
I don't know if the rubber really help it or not... It seem to provide just filler for the porous rock to be filled and then become slippery. It could be interesting to REVERSE them, to get the inside fabric on the outside rather than in the inside and have the fabric.
Of course these are really really well made and useful here in czech republic :)
killi'n nit bro! Love to see it!
9:45 Was that the bed of the slack snap machine getting busted there?
Yup, the plywood base
You should look up the heaving mallet hitch. You had the mallet and everything.
I think ufo might have been a play on aliens
honestly if I hadn't watched this video and I was on a route with someone who placed this I would have absolutely not trusted it to save my life, now seeing this I am utterly shocked how strong that damn thing is, I mean that factor 2 fall making over 20Kn and still didnt break or slip is definently confidence inspiring, but I can only imagine how tricky it would be to remove in a real scenario and it likely has limited safe uses like in vertical cracks, I wonder how it handles in other cracks that aren't ideal.
Rather than all those backups on the tower, you should just dig out under it and have a foam pit to land in.
Can we get pull tests of slung 2x4 wedges, and PBR cans both full and empty in the cam crusher?
Using those climbing shoes as a (bad) piece of protection... Makes me want to see you try to use an ATC as a nut, the way they warn you NOT to on the paper that comes with one!
Based on our testing, the keeper wire can fail at super low forces. if you were to sling it and put it in the right constriction? that is some I might do if I didn't have other options.
This was interesting for sure!
Idk if you’ll see this or not but as I’m watching videos about tensioning high lines is seems very complicated. I feel like the easy answer of using an electric off road winch or using the tow point of a truck to tension the high line is completely overlooked. Is there a reason people don’t do this? I am inexperienced and may be missing some nuances but it feels like getting that type of tension using a vehicle or off road winch would be so much easier
Used them a bit, never invested in some myself and definitely never dared to fall on one! However, a good placement is relatively confidence inspiring just can be hard to place. Traditional sandstone routes are inherently unsafe leading to really having to climb WELL below your onsite limit. There are so many routes which are a bit harder on the sandstone where you can use chalk and are adventureous enough but aren't death routes.
Best part was Bobby's The National Parks reference
Glad someone finally caught that -Bobby.
RIP your linescale
I guess the middle part needs to be something uncompressable
Would have been cool to jam a #13 nut in there.
Besides the box you have to protect your scale, have you considered wrapping it in some athletic tape as a backup?
Never used UFOs but I can see them not lasting as long as cams. The fabric and rubber can be a lot more sensitive to temperature, moisture, UV etc comparing to a metal cam. With a cam can last you up to 10 years (I think, possibly re-sling), I'm curious how long could these UFOs last.
Super good enough for me.
Czech classic climbing....You must come to Turnov or Adršpach and must see!
7:00 Bobby: "so I widened up this side of the crack and it just came out....... so if you have a [insert kit name here] stuck in a crack, you just have to make the crack wider"...... yeah, near where I live, we had some guys trying to rescue some stuck bits of kit by opening the crack up with a couple of bottle jacks...... didn't go so well as the whole flake came off the crag!!! There used to be an awesome crack that ran most of a route as well as 2 other routes that went across the face of that flake, and it's now sitting at the bottom of the crag 😭 Some people shouldn't be aloud to go out into nature, they just ruin it for the rest of us. Sadly, none of them were seriously injured....... yet!!
Epic. Super funny too
How much do these weight? I wonder if rubber-coated nuts would be more reliable and safe enough for delicate rock.
The biggest one is like 600g but it is proper offwidth size. The smaller ones feel very light. I am not at home so can't weigh them right now but I never feel weighed down by the small ones.
I just watched your video on Re bolting routes (with Bobby's bleeding nuckles on the thumb nail). I was just wondering what the most common thread size/pitch bolt's use? Just thinking of some ideas that might be able to help, but I'm in UK and metric stuff won't help you much, so need the imperial sizes, please? Thanks
Can't speak to what is installed in the UK. 3/8" 16 is what is common here.
So it seems like they are strong if placed well but a bit finnicky to place, and like knots don't really come out if you fall on them.
Knots are equally finicky to place in our experience.
I would like to see a RURP, bashie, can opener tie off tested!!!.....😅
don’t hurt the poor rock!
O neat I have the same pair of shoes
I kinda hate how stable that drop tower structure looks... is it from the gopros' OIS? :D
I'm just here for the innuendos... 🤷♂️👍
I am quite hopeful with the information Ryan, bobby, and others have worked on and provided;That I'll need to use my WFR training on 1-100x less people. Good for everyone, even if seeing it in 'best' light*. 300lb! Is crazy. Didn't think aid climbing was ~feasible for some people weighing over 1 Kn. Due to health/more so "mass"
Use them, love them. They are definitely much safer than using only knots. Which, at a time when metal protection is banned in some crags, helps a lot.
A couple of side notes:
- Multiple types are still being made. Both with rubber and loop only. The market is in general divided between 2 Czech brands.
- Climbing with the use of UFO is quite controversial. Especially among the older generation of climbers. The point is that placing a UFO is significantly easier and more reliable than a knot only, which some say takes away from the first ascenders feel. So when you're talking in the local pub about having climbed this or that route, if you don't mention that you used a UFO but someone saw you with it, it can be an embarrassment that will cost you climbing honour.
- Last but not least. Czechia isn't part of Germany. Used to be in 2WW but not anymore. However, they are great neighbours and it's a pleasure to share a lot of climbing crags with them, so I hope that it doesn't offend anyone anymore.
Sounds like a very elitist climbing community. Your "older generation" needs to realize that safety is more important than bragging rights.
using gear is using gear though, unless they are free climbing with no rope how can they claim one form of protection is some how too good or embarrassing to use? If you use new climbing shoes with the talon shape, or super grip rubber is that now cheating too, lol?
PLEASE WHIP ON THE SHOE PLACEMENT, WE NEED IT IN THE NAME OF SCIENCE.
I would love to see a full video about equalized anchow with a girth hitch instead of bfk
To be released soon.
@@HowNOT2 I think the girth hitch anchor is really cool. It's so much quicker to set up than the BFK, the knot takes up less cord/sling (especially when more than two pieces are involved), is easier to equalise (especially when more than two pieces are involved) and it's much easier to undo than a loaded overhand/figure 8.
@@HowNOT2
Have you guys done any destruction testing on big bros?
I have used them but I'm back to knots only.
Really interesting test! I know it is outside the scope of this channel, but I'd really like to see an erosion comparison. Well, since that is the argument. That metal can't be used because it erodes the stone too much.... Also... If rubber is allowed.... Wouldn't it be ok to rubberize metal cams and nuts... Ah no wait, stones in monkey fists aren't allowed, so I guess more dangerous gate keeping then....
Unfortunately I do have a lot of those pieces at my home.
Sincerely, your sandstone climbers.
Until now I´ve only been climbing with knots and slings as my protection but for this season I think I´m gonna buy some UFO´s.
I can recommend it. They are sometimes way more bomber feeling as well as, of course working where a knot would not
kannst auch gerne dir mal welche ausleihen und ausprobieren
F for the LineScale that died for us.
Petzl rescuesender test, please!
Bobby nice helmet that’s a vertex right.
yes
I'm surprised to see you run the rope directly over the linescale instead of adding a carabiner... seems like an expensive piece of gear to whip rope on. I suppose you've gotten a ton of use out of it though.
a carabiner clipped to it is going to do more damage to it than a rope, not that either will harm it.
Seems like the steal girder underneath where your feet are is causing the problem for the line scale 3 box getting ejected at a 45° angle after being pulled down with 300 lb force.
Good thing you have a linescale discount lol
nice video
Yeah, the placement might be key and this placement is hard to achieve
Where can I buy these in the States?
Hi I'm Ryan and this is Jackass!
Thanks for this one. Could you do a DIY version? Roll up some webbing around a sling?
Wouldn’t it be better to have metal gear with rubber cover instead of this?
Can you please do fall testing on various shock absorbers?
Actually trying to do that today!
So I’m very new to this and mainly into watching stuff about climbing, why would you have to use this over what sounds like the traditional things you use? You mention places where the traditional stuff isn’t allowed but why would it be banned?
Check out our other videos on the topic.