This is a completely insufficient response from Maro. 1. This indicates a broken QA process. Players had this interaction called out almost instantly after the card was teased. I deliver products to Max 2,000 100% internal users, way less impact than mtg design team, and this would be considered unacceptable levels of testing at my job. 2. The criticism of MH is typically that the sets SHOULD NOT EXIST in the format. And saying that the sets can't justify it's existence without designing to other formats proves that point. This is a confirmation of bad game design, not an excuse.
There are two options: 1. They're lying, which is completely unacceptable and means they're deflecting, or 2. They're not lying, which means they're really bad at their job Either way it's a really bad look
Not even all commander players want more cards designed for Commander. Sure, they want to have a successful business, but if that can't be done without rotating out chunks of the Commander format, what's the point of me wanting them to still be in business?
The commander format was originally constructed with cards not built for commander, people picked and poured over cards on the gatherer trying to jam stuff that worked. Its fun, arguable the reason commander is what it is. Dont see a problem with them just not considering commander half the time.
Or hear me out… they could stop rushing out so many sets. The card quality and “vibe” has tanked with every month having a new cringey “hat set” riddled with Fortnite character skins.
That part where Rosewater mentions "moving the date back" was so weird to me. Don't most people want to push release dates FORWARD, to give them MORE time? I understand Hasbro is probably responsible for that, but still.
They claim that the nadu problem is only from zero cost activations, but imagine that nadu had a limitation where it only triggered on abilites that cost 1+ mana. The payoff on that is that nadu either ramps you for "free" or draws a card for 1 anytime you use a 1 mana ability to target a creature you control. It's still completely cracked.
Rosewater's defense of Nadu begs the question - It's not just broken for Modern, it's fucking broken PERIOD. WotC is not designing cards for casual Commander, it is pimping its own format: Pay-to-Win Commander. Commander is really three overlapping formats, distinguished by card selection: * Casual Commander - No: stax, infinite loops, land destruction. Budget-friendly, no proxies. * Pay-to-Win Commander - Casual plus pay-to-win cards > $25. Proxies require permission. * Competitive EDH (cEDH) - Play-to-win, nothing legal excluded. Proxies taken for granted. Prominent promoters of Pay-to-Win Commander are WotC, online card dealers, and corporate-sponsored UA-camrs.
With every passing year I grow more annoyed by 'designed for commander' cards in sets and commander products. In my eyes, what that philosophy mostly did was just raise the power level of what I always thought was meant to be a causal format, which you now have to AGGRESSIVELY self-police for that to still be the case on most tables. And yet, the one thing that would improve EDH greatly and make it more accessable is what they constitently refused to do, make the mana bases cheaper. Because all the pieces exist, they just share the same cards as competative 60 card decks and are thus prohibitively expensive for an introductory product. WotC loves to pretend that secondary market value doesn't exist for their lottery tickets disguised as booster packs, and yet they refuse at every junction to reprint fetches and duals and cynically wait to slip it into a set as a selling point, barely even driving down the price. Put a fetch and a dual into EVERY commander deck if you wanna make a real dent.
it feels like they need some comenty rep or something to look cards over as part of the revew and go "well this is nuts with x,y,z" also even without playtesting nadu is broken i dont know how they missed the 0 cost interactions when other decks pre nadu where also useing 0 costs and your designing for comander and didnt see lightning greeves?
There are many commander products created specifically for commander every year. Modern gets one every two years. Put the commander focused design in the litany of commander focused products. It is that simple.
completely unrelated, but what a wordy and complicated card. It took me a minute to realize "twice each turn" is counted separately per creature, and also on each opponent's turn... My play group gets mad at me for playing token spam, I can't imagine playing against this thing being for them...
Speaking here is the guy responsible of the infamous combo winter. Indeed a reference on the matter... 😂 You must be kidding or must be stupid. You choose, I don't care.
Functionally, Mtg is like a live service game. Live service games tend to die off when they don't listen to the community and the quality starts to decrease. We can see that through Mtg UA-cam numbers declining and players leaving. Let's just hope Mark gets his head out of his ass quick enough to help Mtg recover.
Nadu wouldn’t be so broken in commander if it wasn’t legendary. I play commander a lot because everybody I play with plays commander but I do believe this format has kinda ruined the game of magic
I think Nadu’s design is much these egregious than the energy errata that needed to happen. Nadu is absolutely excusable. Creating a rules template screw up is a disaster, just get 2 or 3 high level judges to take a look at cards in the end of the design process so they can tell you if any cards are difficult to rule about or if intent obviously doesn’t line up with the comprehensive rules.
Maro is a smart guy, but he can also get VERY far up his own...you know. He's done so in the past as well, like when he pushed Infect against his own design team's advice.
Yea you can save that politically correct bs for some other loser who cares. You don't get to design a card, send it through testing, change it, and then say "Oh wait, we don't have time to actually test it" then push it out anyway. You created a problem, sold and milked the problem, then finally when you felt like they couldn't get anymore THEN stop it. You aren't saved from criticism just because it was a "mistake" and you definitely don't deserve "Nice criticism" when you ruin a format for months just to milk the playerbase. It's disgusting, don't justify the mistake, admit and apologize, everyone will move on.
Rosewater lost any credibility for comments on their design and release strategy after the 30th anniversary debacle; it's all corpo doublespeak or outright lies.
I dont care that stuff "slips through" I care about how long they are allowed to ruin formats so they can continue to sell packs.
This is a completely insufficient response from Maro.
1. This indicates a broken QA process. Players had this interaction called out almost instantly after the card was teased. I deliver products to Max 2,000 100% internal users, way less impact than mtg design team, and this would be considered unacceptable levels of testing at my job.
2. The criticism of MH is typically that the sets SHOULD NOT EXIST in the format. And saying that the sets can't justify it's existence without designing to other formats proves that point. This is a confirmation of bad game design, not an excuse.
They claimed to have redesigned the card for Commander however Lightning Greaves is one of the most played cards in commander.
Wizards is lying.
Yup, and Lightning Greaves don't push packs.
There are two options:
1. They're lying, which is completely unacceptable and means they're deflecting, or
2. They're not lying, which means they're really bad at their job
Either way it's a really bad look
"Stop designing so many cards for commander"
"No"
"Oh okay, we feel *very* listened to."
Not even all commander players want more cards designed for Commander. Sure, they want to have a successful business, but if that can't be done without rotating out chunks of the Commander format, what's the point of me wanting them to still be in business?
The commander format was originally constructed with cards not built for commander, people picked and poured over cards on the gatherer trying to jam stuff that worked. Its fun, arguable the reason commander is what it is. Dont see a problem with them just not considering commander half the time.
Or hear me out… they could stop rushing out so many sets. The card quality and “vibe” has tanked with every month having a new cringey “hat set” riddled with Fortnite character skins.
Yeah mark is drinking the corporate coolaid. Mistakes are forgivable when things are changed to prevent them again.
F'ing YES!!
That part where Rosewater mentions "moving the date back" was so weird to me. Don't most people want to push release dates FORWARD, to give them MORE time? I understand Hasbro is probably responsible for that, but still.
They claim that the nadu problem is only from zero cost activations, but imagine that nadu had a limitation where it only triggered on abilites that cost 1+ mana. The payoff on that is that nadu either ramps you for "free" or draws a card for 1 anytime you use a 1 mana ability to target a creature you control. It's still completely cracked.
"Allow me to retort." AKA, "In response..."
Rosewater's defense of Nadu begs the question - It's not just broken for Modern, it's fucking broken PERIOD.
WotC is not designing cards for casual Commander, it is pimping its own format: Pay-to-Win Commander.
Commander is really three overlapping formats, distinguished by card selection:
* Casual Commander - No: stax, infinite loops, land destruction. Budget-friendly, no proxies.
* Pay-to-Win Commander - Casual plus pay-to-win cards > $25. Proxies require permission.
* Competitive EDH (cEDH) - Play-to-win, nothing legal excluded. Proxies taken for granted.
Prominent promoters of Pay-to-Win Commander are WotC, online card dealers, and corporate-sponsored UA-camrs.
@@QuicksilverSG and if they designed for commander how did they miss the fact lightning greves exist
With every passing year I grow more annoyed by 'designed for commander' cards in sets and commander products. In my eyes, what that philosophy mostly did was just raise the power level of what I always thought was meant to be a causal format, which you now have to AGGRESSIVELY self-police for that to still be the case on most tables. And yet, the one thing that would improve EDH greatly and make it more accessable is what they constitently refused to do, make the mana bases cheaper. Because all the pieces exist, they just share the same cards as competative 60 card decks and are thus prohibitively expensive for an introductory product. WotC loves to pretend that secondary market value doesn't exist for their lottery tickets disguised as booster packs, and yet they refuse at every junction to reprint fetches and duals and cynically wait to slip it into a set as a selling point, barely even driving down the price.
Put a fetch and a dual into EVERY commander deck if you wanna make a real dent.
it feels like they need some comenty rep or something to look cards over as part of the revew and go "well this is nuts with x,y,z"
also even without playtesting nadu is broken i dont know how they missed the 0 cost interactions when other decks pre nadu where also useing 0 costs and your designing for comander and didnt see lightning greeves?
You are allowed to make fuck ups. Just fix them faster.
There are many commander products created specifically for commander every year. Modern gets one every two years. Put the commander focused design in the litany of commander focused products. It is that simple.
completely unrelated, but what a wordy and complicated card. It took me a minute to realize "twice each turn" is counted separately per creature, and also on each opponent's turn... My play group gets mad at me for playing token spam, I can't imagine playing against this thing being for them...
Speaking here is the guy responsible of the infamous combo winter. Indeed a reference on the matter... 😂
You must be kidding or must be stupid. You choose, I don't care.
Keep glazing Maro, that MTG ambassador spot is right around the corner.
“You can’t be mad at us for ruining modern by prioritizing commander because if we didn’t we’d ruin modern” -mark rosewater be like
Functionally, Mtg is like a live service game. Live service games tend to die off when they don't listen to the community and the quality starts to decrease. We can see that through Mtg UA-cam numbers declining and players leaving. Let's just hope Mark gets his head out of his ass quick enough to help Mtg recover.
Nadu wouldn’t be so broken in commander if it wasn’t legendary. I play commander a lot because everybody I play with plays commander but I do believe this format has kinda ruined the game of magic
I think Nadu’s design is much these egregious than the energy errata that needed to happen. Nadu is absolutely excusable.
Creating a rules template screw up is a disaster, just get 2 or 3 high level judges to take a look at cards in the end of the design process so they can tell you if any cards are difficult to rule about or if intent obviously doesn’t line up with the comprehensive rules.
Maro is a smart guy, but he can also get VERY far up his own...you know. He's done so in the past as well, like when he pushed Infect against his own design team's advice.
Maro's lack of humility is disgusting. Instead of writing an entire essay of cope and excuses, why not just say "We messed up and we're sorry?"
Yea you can save that politically correct bs for some other loser who cares. You don't get to design a card, send it through testing, change it, and then say "Oh wait, we don't have time to actually test it" then push it out anyway. You created a problem, sold and milked the problem, then finally when you felt like they couldn't get anymore THEN stop it. You aren't saved from criticism just because it was a "mistake" and you definitely don't deserve "Nice criticism" when you ruin a format for months just to milk the playerbase. It's disgusting, don't justify the mistake, admit and apologize, everyone will move on.
Rosewater lost any credibility for comments on their design and release strategy after the 30th anniversary debacle; it's all corpo doublespeak or outright lies.
Players are more than welcome to be mad at wizards but they should not punish the game developers. Fuck WOTC and their money grabbing ways
What about the awful, unfun, uninteractive, game warping design of the one ring Mark?