The 2 Sides of Gawain: Hero vs. Antihero | Fate & Fabled
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- Опубліковано 8 лис 2023
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Knights of the Round Table were expected to adhere to a strict moral standard of piety, honor, bravery, and courtesy called chivalry. But considering that they often spent their days killing and rampaging at the behest of their lord, that must've required some next-level compartmentalization.
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Hosted by Dr. Moiya McTier & Dr. Emily Zarka, FATE & FABLED explores the stories and characters of mythologies from all around the world - why they came to be and how they impact us still today.
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My favourite Gawain story is the one with the Hideous Bride, where Arthur is tasked to answer the question, "What do women want most?" or die. Arthur gets the answer from an ugly hag he meets, that women "want to have their own way," but in exchange, he has to marry her to one of his knights. Gawain is the only one who volunteers to marry her, and in so doing breaks part of the curse she's under so she can be beautiful for either the day or the night. When she asks him when she should be beautiful, Gawain shows he's learned the moral of the story and tells her to pick for herself, fully breaking her curse.
Dude that's a good story
Did he then immediately cheat on her?
Isn't that The Wife of Bath story from Canterbury Tales? I'd not encountered it as being related to Gawain before.
@@skyllalafey That’s what I was thinking?
@@skyllalafey it’s a pretty common motif in medieval literature known as the ‘loathly lady’. The version with Gawain is called ‘The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle’
Sadly, Sir Gawain would then later fall to the terrible Rabbit of Caerbannog during the quest for the holy grail.
...'that rabbits dynamite!"....^^
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
All hail the Holy Hand Grenade
Breh🗿
I'm reading this comment while there's a wild rabbit staring at me from the bushes surrounding my courtyard.
The version of The Green Knight I read basically concluded with the moral of “It’s okay to not be perfect.” The knight knew he lied to keep the hurdle, but didn’t begrudge him for not wanting to die. He got a B on his honor exam and B still passes. Of course, Gawain still felt shame about it, so wore the girdle to remind himself to keep the faith, essentially. I never heard it read as a deconstruction before. Goes to show that there are many ways to interpret a story.
This is the first time I heard the tale of the Green Knight, but I read the first beheading as hubris, Gawain thought he could cheat the game by killing and was punished by either having to give up on his life or his honor, the latter being heavily intertwined with his status and source of the hubris.
That seems like a reasonable guess, especially since Gawain asks the Green Knight before striking him what his name is and where his lands are, to which the Green Knight responds that he will answer after Gawain gives his stroke. He then adds teasingly, that if he doesn't give answer (say, if he CAN'T answer) after Gawain's strike, then Gawain can happily stay home the next year without being called coward. I think that this is clearly meant as a suggestion from the Green Knight that killing him might provide a way out.
No it is about maybe the real heads we behead are the magic and kisses along the way. Also, never look a green and gold girdle gift girl in the mouth when making out with said gift girl.
Shout out to the BBC SciFi Merlin for casting Eoin Macken in the role, I don’t recall them tackling the Green Knight, but for all the slack the series got, Gwaine was handled and cast brilliantly. Time for a rewatch.
Only in the original poem, Gawain doesn't accept the challenge. Arthur accepts the challenge, but when Gawain realizes that the Green Knight probably has some cards up his sleeve, and that if anything happen to Arthur, Camelot is finished, Gawain begs Arthur to pass the challenge over. It is actually worth learning Middle English just to read this one poem (there are other poems almost as good, two of them by the same poet). I have spent a large chunk of my life discussing with classes why Arthur accepts the challenge, and that has been time extremely well spent.
My understanding is that, after his second encounter with the Green Knight, Gawain choose to wear the girdle for the rest of his life as penance, and the rest of the Round Table knights followed his example in a gesture of solidarity. A sort of "Your shame is our shame," thing.
Gawain and Cuchulainn are to some extent the same character, or share a similar origin and evolved on separate paths (Gawain being Brythonic/Welsh, CuChulainn Irsh), as were the Morrigan and Queen Morgana (a name that could either mean 'Great Queen (Mor Regana) or Born of the Sea (Mori-gena),). I love the story of Gawain and the Green Knight, but have a somewhat different interpretation to others expressed here. Gawain did not take the challenge of the beheading game out of pride or hubris, but to save the life of King Arthur who was going to accept the challenge. Gawain therefore knew the challenge was completely sus and likely to be a trick, so would have refused had he the choice, so his acceptance was reluctant, but necessary to save his lord, whom he had sworn to protect. The end of the tale is also slightly glossed over; according to my memory, Lord Bertilak doesn't take a single swing, but three. The fist two times he doesn't make contact, but pulls the blow, giving some excuse for doing so. It is on the third swing that he nicks Gawain's neck. This reflects the three days prior; on the first two days, Gawain gave what he received (the kisses) and so honoured the bargain made. On the final day he broke the deal by keeping the girdle, and therefore receives the cut. He didn't get his head cut off because Gawain had shown up in the first place - one imagines that if he had just stayed at home, the Green Knight would have turned up and been somewhat less merciful with his axe.
That's actually a really interesting take.
This is largely the way I heard it too.
Also, he's not faulted for being afraid, because, as the Green Knight points out, that's human, but for lying and initially blame shifting.
He's also told to keep the green belt to remind him to be honest in the future.
That's right; at the end of the story the other knights take up the wearing of the belt as a sign of Gawain's success, but he saw it as a reminder of his failure.@@sparklinggrimm532
Good to find someone else who agrees that Gawain doesn't volunteer for the challenge, he accepts it because that's the only way Arthur can save face. Two other aspects of the poem that have always intrigued me: we are told Arthur is 'child3ered', which might mean 'young at heart' but could just as easily mean 'childish'; and the poem prominently features three different weapons: the sword which was the Norman's implement of choice, the two-hand ax which is how Saxon infantry traditionally fought, and the bow (in the hunting sections) which was the weapon of choice for the Celts and other irregular soldiers.
Is there an etymological connection between the names Gawain and Cuchulainn?
The Green Knight (2021) is a trippy and really engrossing adaptation of this tale that was critically acclaimed but went criminally unseen. I highly recommend it, one of the best movies I saw that year!
Hear hear! That was such a fun experience!
I hate that interpretation. The hubris of the director, speaking through Lady Bertilak, saying that he "improves" the story irks me badly. And the whole idea that Gawain should marry the prostitute or else the kingdom will fall due to strife is idiotic. Being the heir apparent he would be expected to marry a noblewoman, but in the movie it is implied that he creates strife by NOT marrying the prostitute. It is stupid.
@@falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962 I saw this movie like a semester after we went over the original story in my college lit class. I remember sitting in the theater becoming more and more confused and frustrated. I knew the story inside and out, along with all the symbolism and meaning, and the movie just shredded all my ideas. Maybe I missed important good stuff because of my expectations, but I definitely won't be watching it again to find out.
I hate that movie because it fundamentally changes the story and his character. He is brave and is there to prove that Arthur's knights are noble men, but in that movie, he's a coward through and through. All the side quests are weird but easy to accept as something to fill the run time. But at the end, the only reason he finally fulfills his end of the deal and meets the Green Knight is because he saw the vision of how he'd die if he turned around and left. He chose the simpler, easier death. He didn't change into an honorable man. He was still a coward who chose the easy way out and got to go home. I hated the movie, but it was absolutely gorgeous. The Green Knight's design was beautiful and I loved it, but that's it. They decided to turn a story about a decent knight into a story about a weak man who wasn't even a knight yet trying to become one by passing all these tests that represent the 5 pillars of knighthood or whatever.
Yes, to me it was the best movie I saw that year.
Another famous Gawain legend is that of Lady Guinevere's chastity belt. King Arthur was planning for a great crusade to the Holy Land. One of his tasks was to ensure the safety of his Queen Guinevere's honor while he was away. So he had a chastity belt made for her and locked her securely in it as he prepared to depart. But then he realized he would need to entrust the key to one of his knights, since it was a possibility that he would never return. So, after careful consideration, he decided that he must leave key with Sir Gawain, his most chaste and moral knight. Having done this, he set off on his journey. Just a few minutes later, however, Sir Gawain came galloping from the castle in pursuit, shouting to Arthur, "Your Majesty, Your Majesty! You gave me the wrong key!"
Arthurian legends are always so entangled and confusing, sometimes in a good way and sometimes not so much. Recalling that a girdle could symbolize a woman's "virtue" really makes the interaction with the Lady more uncomfortable for me at least. It's also interesting if you take it as "foreshadowing" what happens later with Lancelot, especially when looking at the story through a lens of "questioning the hypocrisy."
This is a very interesting story, but I've watched too much Monty Python. I hear "Knights of the Round Table " and immediately hear the singing in my head - "We're Knights of the Round Table! We dance when we're able!"
Honestly, same-*Dr.Z*
'Tis a silly place!
Gawain’s Word! Gawain’s Word! Party time! Excellent!
Hehe shoutouts to _Between the Lions_ , an extraordinarily expensive wonderful PBS production.
Loved Gawain portrayed in the Merlin tv series.
How I love you guys and this series! Dr Emily your fashion sense is killer! So is Moiya’s her dresses are FAB
I remember hearing that the Green Man was actually a fabrication made up by a Victorian scholar who wanted to explain why there were leafy faces on so many Medieval buildings, and that there's no previous mention of the Green Man before that. Could you check up on that?
From what I understand, even though Green Man images appear all over the place, there are no surviving stories explicitly connected with those images. Although the symbolism is fairly explicit - face poking out amidst leaves obviously has some connection to nature - I wouldn’t be surprised if the term “Green Man” was a much more recent creation, and only retroactively applied to the images. That being said, there are folkloric figures that bear conceptual similarities; Pan, Cernunnos, the Leshy and others all embody nature in some way and are often associated with green.
I could be wrong but I also remember hearing that the English folklore of the Green Man was a recent fabrication, but there are other cultures that have similar figures.
It could make for a good episode
I recall a documentary talking about the earliest knightly codes during the crusades. Turns out knights needed to be told not to attack pilgrims.
One of my favourite adventure time episodes ever
Please consider doing some videos on the mythology of different hair and eye colors!
Never get on a white horse with red ears...
Then there is the story of Dame Rag-Nell (famously told by the Wife of Bath in Chaucer's Canterbury Tales). Queen Guinevere sends Gawain on a quest to find "what all women want the most." Only an old washerwoman crone, Rag-Nell, gives him the answer "for their will to be done," in exchange for his hand in marriage. After they wed and when night falls, the crone becomes a beautiful but evil girl... Turns out that due to a spell (maybe by Morgan le Fey?) she was ugly on the outside but pretty on the inside (kind) by day, but a beautiful evil girl by night... until she got married. Then her bridegroom should decide how she should be... Gawain says that, since all women want their will to be done, SHE should decide HERSELF... And she becomes young and pretty but also kind-hearted.
One more similarity to home alone, violence that should be fatal but is instead shaken off with minor or nonexistent lasting effects
There's a version of the beheading game in _Bricriu's Feast._
Gawain is my favorite story of the legends.
Love the skits in the episodes here, also would love to learn more about Arthur's knights there's only like three of them that I can think of offhand. Would be nice to know more about the other ones that didn't get a lot of attention.
The _Mabinogion_ has some Arthurian tales. _The History of the Kings of Britain_ by Geoffrey of Monmouth has one of the earliest treatments of King Arthur. Chretien de Troyes wrote a number of romances. _Parzifal_ by Wolfram von Eschenbach. Sir Thomas Malory's _Le Morte d'Arthur._ Robert de Boron's poem about Merlin, and _The Prose Merlin._ And many more. Wikipedia and The Camelot Project Site are good places to start. Project Gutenberg has public-domain translations of some works.
The knight is a pervasive archetype that we see across cultures.It's a fascinating symbol of courage and self-scarifice
Agreed, its the ultimate distillation of the idealized warrior as a noble protector. I am sure Lancelot, Hector, and Arjuna would have a lot to talk about if there was ever a crossover.
Even just on a keeping promised front, he couldn't give the girdle as he had promised not to before knowing what he was promising (and that it was contradicting a preexisting promise). The boy was too quick to give his word, and not great at stopping to think.
The cool thing about Gawain, especially in "The Once and Future King", Gawain was a ride and die friend to Arthur, even more so than his adopted brother/cousin Sir Kay. Gawain did not always agree with Arthur and often let his hot headedness get "ahead" of him, but would always acquiesce to Arthur's wishes.
Will you do video on either Merlin or Morgan le Fay?
Maybe even Lady of the lake
@@arthurmartin4616strange ladies chilling in lakes are no basis for a stable government
I love how you shout out Once & Future!!!!!
Woo! Love the shout out to Once and Future!
The Green knight movie was great!
I was hoping the Morrigan would be picked for the Pantheon. I had planned to be a representation of her for Halloween...but didn't finish in time because I took to long on my son's costume, which was much more important. So next year! I was very close.
That is so cool! I'm definitely considering the same for next Halloween
@@MaryamMaqdisi thank you so much. I hope your costume is magical.
These skits are something else.
Pub trivia is a commitment!
We're Knights of the Round Table.
We dance whene'er we're able.
We do routines and chorus scenes
With footwork impeccable.
We dine well here in Camelot.
We eat ham and jam and spam a lot.
We're Knights of the Round Table.
Our shows are formidable,
But many times we're given rhymes
That are quite unsingable.
We're opera mad in Camelot.
We sing from the diaphragm a lot.
In war we're tough and able,
Quite indefatigable.
Between our quests we sequin vests and impersonate Clark Gable.
It's a busy life in Camelot.
I have to push the pram a lot.
Thanks for the video!
I love that you all enjoy making these videos so much as we watching them
The version I read had the Green Knight nick his neck with the axe as penance for failing to present the girdle, and he wears the scar the rest of his life.
Another thing I know of Sir Gawain, although inconsistent, is that he's sometimes referred to as The Knight of the Sun. There are a few sources which indicate a gift he was given which grants him great power around noon, or for the surrounding hours of noon. Alternatively, his prowess in combat is sometimes linked to the rising and falling of the sun, while noon is his peak. Arthur oftentimes planned battles around this cycle due to Gawain's 'invincibility' as his peak. Unfortunately, though, it is few and far between that proper sources bring this point up. The Vulgate Cycle is one source that implies this aspect about Gawain.
Monsters! Myths! Legends! Folk Tales! Outtakes!!!
Maybe some geology (with volcano gods).
It's Gawain to be a great year.
I like where this is headed with the puns! Lol
Hey Storied, can you please do a video on Igbo culture, it’s mythology, values, and traditions? I know you’ve done other videos on other Nigerian cultures! It’ll be fantastic though to see a video that covers Igbo history extensively!!!
Fabulous fable telling, exploring meaning(s), and sharing💚💚💚
Did I miss it or did they not mention Tolkien's version?
Great episode!
excellent episode!✨️
Thanks so much for cliff's notesing this for me.
Thank you.
Certified banger
I like how your round table has corners
Would you like a cup of tea vicar?
_Gawain, Gawain, Gawain, Gawain..._
*_“So many vows...they make you swear and swear. Defend the king. Obey the king. Keep his secrets. Do his bidding. Your life for his. But obey your father. Love your sister. Protect the innocent. Defend the weak. Respect the gods. Obey the laws. It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or the other.”_*
- Jaime Lannister
Thank you
Sir Gawain, he really risked "losing face" in an experience that I would say was "not very chivalrous"
(perhaps the headless horseman had participated in this "game")
2:36 = I would define her as ready to be "cool until the death"; 2:56 = I would say that she had to play "heads or tails"
6:47 the perfect color matching belt for Leprechauns (yellow=gold green=ireland/lawns)
I never knew this tale. Great video! 💯
🔥 An episode about the PHOENIX, please!
"Lord and Lady Bertilak have a really messed up relationship."
I mean they're fey (probably). Gawain should consider himself lucky that he got out of their games with nothing more than a few kisses and a nick. He could have ended up with a donkey head or ended up dealing with the Unseelie instead, which would have been far worse for him. And at least he didn't end up in the middle of a spat between Zeus and Hera.
The Morrigan is a wonderful pic. I love her/them. The Crow is a fantastic aesthetic ❤
Thanks Dr Z. Btw the vent at 3:19 was choice!
Those puns were a head of the competition, no doubt.
Gawain is one of the best!
What exactly being chivalrous meant, could actually vary quite a bit. What one region considered chivalrous, another might instead see as un-chivalrous.
Fun fact, 'chivalry' literally translates to 'horsemanship'. So most of what people consider chivalrous actually has NOTHING to do with ACTUAL chivalry.
Great pick and also very thematic, The Morrígu are also representative of nature, fertility/feminity, fierceness and war (in the context of defending the sovereignity of land), she's my favourite deity, specialy her Badb aspect, which is represented by the raven/crow.
That thumbnail is a good way to get "Mister Brightside" stuck in your head.
I love both the interpretations and discovery of lore, but Imma be that girl for just a second and ask where you found that bodycon top, because that thing is awesome and I've never seen one with such detailed patterning. >.> yeah sorry bout that
I love the bloopers. 😀🖖💕
Party on Gawain!
Gawain and Cú Chulainn are clearly counterparts. Like Batman and Iron Man, or Son Goku and Luffy...
well presented
One of my fave Arthurian Legends! I have a personal relationship with the Goddess Morrigan and her shape shipping abilities, You all Rock! Most Enjoy your videos :)
👍Extra Thumbs Up for using a sound bite from my all-time favorite song by The Who. 👍
Thanks for an interesting video. Just FYI, insular Celtic words and names have their accents on the first syllable, not the last (CUchulain, as opposed to cuchuLAIN).
BTW (and for what it's worth) I've put the Green Knight film mentioned in the video on my short list of favorite films ever. Well worth checking out IMHO.
I first heard of this story from the song "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" by Heather Dale.
The Green Knight is one of my favorite stories from Arthurian legend & I loved how it was referenced in Adventure Time but with a dark twist
My first introduction to Gawain was Gawain's Word from "Between the Lions." xD
The acting was so funny!
As human knights go, Lancelot is quite flawed, for all that he was for a time the Best Knight in the world, before passing the medal to his illegitmate son Galahad
Oh, she meant that pub quiz quip.
"It was only a kiss! It was only a kiss!"
- from the song Mr. Brightside, by the Killers on their debut album Hot Fuss
Sometimes the best story elements are the ones the author allows the readers to assemble in our own minds.
Sir Gawain is a true friend
I seem to remember reading that the translation of the story of the green knight was translated, once rediscovered, by an oxford linguistic scholar and it was considered his great work. the scholar-J.R.R. Tolkien.
Read Gawain then heard of Cú through YT Celtic myth. Cool to then come across this vid. *Will sub*
I need one of you to answer "Tis merely a flesh wound."
Whenever anyone brings up Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, I think of The Toast's abridged version. It's pretty funny.
So The Green Knight is Q from Star Trek
Fun fact: Writer/Comedian Stephen Fry wrote a Doctor Who episode based around the Tale Of The Green Knight penciled in for S2 and later for S3 but it remained unmade.
I was just reading this!! Haha too funny
If you haven't read The Toast version, you *need* to.
Well memed ladies, well memed
There's a book by Cassandra L. Thompson called The Ancient Ones if you want to see a really interesting take on Morrigan.
Have you ever done Robin Hood? And I do Trivia.
Thinking about the Tradition of courtly love, maybe he was supposed to keep the girdle to signify discretion.
I listened to Gawain's Night 3 on the bus and oh my goodness didn't know where it was going AT ALL. I really thought Gawain was going to loose that game. Or win, depending on who you ask ;)
Now I'm falling asleep and she's calling a cab
The Green Knight represents winter and the rebirth of spring
That's a very Berserk looking sword. Duct tape aside, of course. Also Gawain "rolls a natural 20", lol. You guys have reminded me I have to get back to Baldur's Gate 3, which I didn't expect to happen when I clicked this...
The legends also say Gawain was Arthur’s own nephew by his half-sister Morgause (not Morgan/Morgana Le Fay that’s a different person) and he has four brothers Agravaine, Gaheris, Gareth, and Mordred (sometimes also Arthur’s son with his mother Morgause sleeping with Arthur in a kinda half-incest)
Dont forget that giving someone a girdle is a sex metaphor, just like in a wedding ceremony where the grooms removes the brides girdle
Hey the lord and lady aren’t messed up, there’s nothing wrong in itself in wanting a hot third.
Gah-oo-in. Gawain. It's a Welsh name
Just found this particular video.
Rolled a Natural 20 got me, though I enjoy the Monstrum entries. Or is that, entree's? 😂
This was pretty much the only round table stories I actually liked as a kid.
Kind of funny, I read it while in an English class with a teacher who hated men and would purposely give male students worse grades. I made a comment about this basically being a parody of knight stories and she told me I was dumb that this was just a typical male fantasy. A girl in our class said it seems to almost make fun of the knight stories and the teacher agreed. The girl just looked at me and shrugged.