I'm 74 and have lived and hunted in Northern Michigan Most of my adult life. I remember when the go to Caliber was the 30-30 . Lots of black bear fell to the Old time favorite.
Best explanation why predator hunting makes sense ever. Applies also for Germany, where the general public does not understand why predetor hunting is a good thing for nature. Thank you for the video.
First and only bear I've shot was a 400# black bear with a 308 win. 180 grain, thru 1 shoulder, lung, heart, lung, broke other shoulder. It moved 5 yards only because it was on a slope and rolled.
My first rifle was a Carl Gustav sporterized carbine 96 Mauser. I took it's penetration capabilities for granted until I shot a few deer with a 30-06. 156 grain Norma round nose soft point (the old stuff with a cupronickel jacket) would shoot through any deer at any angle and deep into (sometimes through) the tree behind it.
Alot of people don't know that the rifles that homesteaded Alaska and have killed more Grizzly than any others are the Enfield in 303 Brit, the Krag in 30-40 and the 03A3 in '06. The rifles and cartridges may still hold the record so a modern .308 technically can take even the largest Browns.
308 will easily kill anything on the continent, wouldn’t be my choice for an expensive hunt traveling across the country but if elk or grizzly were local id have no issue using it. If I’ve got 10 grand into the hunt I’ll be bringing a bigger rifle just for the increased range to maximize the chance of filling that expensive tag.
The problem is people think they need the same, super tough, super deep penetrating bullets that are used on other “dangerous game”. So grandpappy shoots a bear with a 30-06 loaded with a bullet designed for buffalo, gets poor results, and blames the 30-06 instead of the bullet. Tells his son horror stories about using 30-06 on bears, so his son takes a 300 win mag loaded with the same, overly hard dg bullet, gets poor results, and now here we are, a generation of people thinking bears require copper solids being pushed by Weatherby magnums, and anyone using .308 is nuts. Truth is, .308 with a nosler partition, or a winchester ballistic silver tip will pulverize a bears vital organs.
@@fnkdtnk My AK interior griz fell to two 180-gr. Barnes TSX bullets. The first penetrated the heart and off ran the bear. The second hit the spine and killed him instantly. I found that one in the snowbank beyond the bear. Slug weighed 180-grains. Cartridge was Bordens 300 Caribou, an improved 300 Win Mag.
Yes and there’s some Indians that’s crawled into the den and shot them on the 22 pistol I don’t care too and as far as 308 I consider the bear has to eat too so get after it
@@jaydunbar7538 keep in mind I mean the .308 for DEFENSE against a sudden grizzly attack. In semi auto rifle. For a hunt certainly I would use a heavier caliber in a bolt action, as long as I am not alone, and am accompanied by at least 1 more adequately armed person whom I trust. I say "trust" because rangers report that in most instances when there is a party of only 2 and 1 gets attacked by a grizz, the other person RUNS AWAY ! Surprising, but in most cases, that's what happens !
@@sparky_-mf2cs well I'd take a 10MM Glock with a 13rd mag over a bolt action .308 any day for a charging grizz. A semi-auto high capacity .308 is a different story. Most recommend handguns over a rifle because they are hikers and the weight of a rifle is too cumbersome. Saying a pistol caliber is enough and a .308 is not in general is very stupid but I can't say I've ever heard anyone say that.
27:04 With as much as you know, still happy to admit where your knowledge/experience stops. I assume that's why you still have the respect of the community all these decades later. Keep up the good work, Ron!
I grew up on kodiak island alaska,my dad opened the airport in 1967,park muncy was the #1 guide for hunters out of state,my dad hunted with him and got kodiak brown bears,elk,deer etc,but we always had airplanes so went to the mainland for moose ,mountain goat and reindeer,I used a 30-06 while dad prefer his 7mm.At 10 that 30-06 kicked my butt lol.Shot alot of deer with 30-30 mostly,even got stationed on Kodiak 2 times in the Coast Guard,havent been back since 1990,great hunting.
I carry a 12 gauge at work (land surveying) because a rifle seems to offend clients. Even with slugs a shotgun doesn’t measure up to a .308, especially a 10 shot “scout rifle”
@@briant7652 I don't know if we have enough statistics to definitely say that "rifles are typically better for large bears". I've only seen one study going over all historic bear attacks where firearms were used for self defense, and every bear that was hit by any bullet at all stopped its attack. The most common used was 9mm. Now I wouldn't trust a 9mm personally. My point is the data set is small so it's definitely a debatable topic. I'm sure 308 does well, and probably has a lot better penetration. 20% more energy in a slug can't be a negative though, and you're less likely to get a pass through (so all of that energy is dumped in target). I think the reasoning goes both ways
@@briant7652 you didn't engage with what I said at all. I, like the guide, also suspect rifles penetrate better. But then the other reasoning is that if you get a pass through, and you didn't hit a vital organ, then that icepick wound cavity may be useless. Even a bear shot through the lungs or heart would still have enough time to close distance before expiring. The 12ga slug would be unlikely to have that problem. But then what I was saying before: this is all academic because we don't have enough information. And the main study we do have suggests it doesn't really matter what you use, as long as you are able to get shots on target.
The best advice I was told years ago. When it comes to bears. and no matter what you have. Keep shooting until it goes down. I have seen a bear outrun a squirrel, and the squirrel had a ten yard head start. Also witnessed a good friend of mine get mauled, so I have a lot of respect for bears.
PO Ackley Book is the world's best book to this day explaining case powder capacity as related to velocity performance and bore size. I read the covers off this book literally. I have to remind myself that bigger is not always better when it comes to cartridge case capacity and refer to PO Ackley oftentimes.
I think people worry to much about having a big rifle, personally I prefer a bigger cartridge for expensive hunts I’m traveling for but if it’s a local hunt and you can wait for a good shot then it’s just not an issue.
After seeing my test results from 308 and 30-06 with a 168 grain TSX, I can't imagine anything could survive it. That being said, I hunt whitetails in Michigan 😆. A few of the guys if talked to that have hunted Alaska say that the 300WSM with either a nosler partition in 180gr+ or Barnes TSX in 180gr is the bread and butter up there. I definitely agree with the choice of 338 win mag for and overall rifle. Abundance of ammo for it there.
When I lived in Montana, I elk hunted in grizzly country. Always with a 338. Never had a problem, but I was prepared none the less. I did take a brown bear 10’6”. Probably a thousand pounds. 338 was enough gun. I would have felt better with a 375.
For capercaillie I'd advise for using a 22 Hornet or WM or a 17 HMR. If one uses a too fast and powerful caliber the exit hole is a real challenge for any taxidermist. Same goes for bullets that fracture into small parts. Old hunters sometimes used FMJ .222Win, though that needs a very accurate shot, as it will punch a straight hole without expansion, which risks long searches for the shot animal.
The .308 is terrible for bears. It just tears them up and kills them. What is good for bears is lots of wild lands, honey, bug-rich rotten stumps, skunk cabbage, mild winters, warm sunshine, careful drivers, salmon, and lots of careless campers who leave their food out.
Hi. Top bird hunting with a rifle has been successful in Sweden with a fully jacketed 6.5 round nose. Good precision and adequate knock down with a round nose. Since one needs a light weapon after long ski trips after birds, single shot rifles 22 Hornet or 5.6x52 have been popular.
Adding in here that the shots are often taken from distances of 100m+, often 200m+, so 22lr or 22wm would neither be feasible nor 22lr allowed. At least in Sweden
Even a 500 grain lead bullet with 70 grains of black powder will blow a hole straight thru the biggest North American buffalo. It will do the same on the biggest bears.
@@brucepk631 I indeed have that very setup...also have a .458 SOCOM upper as well, but the .450 and .458 are very similar in ballistics and the SOCOM ammo is damned hard to find.
Well he seemed confident hunting in grizz woods when he hunted all his other game why change now? A 308 with a good penetrating bullett under 300yds will do the job, if he puts it in the right spot.
Well sounds like he's going on a destination hunt to an area with a high density of large coastal brown bears. And him saying he's used to hunting caribou and sheep I'm guessing he's more used to hunting the interior with lower numbers of the smaller inland grizzlies. Up until the 1970s coastal brown bears and inland grizzlies were considered separate species because of the difference in size and behavior, and still today many alaskans distinguish between 'brown bear' and 'grizzly'. My guess is he's intimidated by the reputation of the coastal browns, and that isn't unwise
Longtrailside, how dare you apply logic and reason on the internet?!?! Everybody knows that a big brown bear can only be taken with a 50 BMG (minimum), better with a 30mm cannon. Actually it sounds like he has opinions. As good as a 308 can be, if he has bigger, that he is comfortable with, why not give it a whirl. A 180gr or 200gr bullet in a 308 will do a browny, under ideal conditions. But what about under less than ideal conditions? Have a great day and please stop using common sense, logic and reason. 🙂🙂
@@jk-kr8jt There used to be an oooooold youtube video of a hunter with 3 friends hunting 1 guy filming brown bear in alaska. One took a shot at a grizz from a good distance. The bear immediately started to charge at the hunters full bore. They all opened fired at the bear and hit the bear multiple times over and over again, reloading with large caliber rifles. The bear finally collapsed feet from where the hunters stood. That video taught me 2 serious lessons. Shot placement for a charging bear is the brain or upper spine to stop a charging bear. And the second lesson is magnum calibers dont mean shit to a pissed off charging grizzly, unless you packing a full auto 50bmg. Ive seen videos of them killed with simple recurve bows, 308, 300wm, 375 hh, ect, practically dropped on the spot. They are not hard to kill generally, buuuuut if its a bear with a will to live or a pissed off bear that wants to fight, and you shoot it. Juat be prepared for it to fight back. Seen similair with black bear also, but nothing ever like ive seen in that video! It was unreal...!
It would be best to hold the range to under 100 yds for both bullet placement and retained energy. Most guides don't like hunters taking long shots on dangerous game.
For black grouse and capercaillie I’ve used .22 WMR, 6.5 Creedmoor, .308 and .30-06. Here in Finland also .222, .22-250, .223 are also often used. Usually the birds are shot from tree tops. As they can spot the hunter far away, shooting distances are often 150-250 meters. Therefore flat shooting rifle and high bc bullets help. Bullet should be fmj if you want some meat to cook after succesful shot.
Finnish hunters hunt big birds. We mostly use calibers/cartridges that are common here and easy to get. Ron Spomer once called me pragmatic and that is a good word to describe many hunters in Finland. Years and years .308 has been the cartridge to go to. It can handle everything from birds to bears, it has a huge variety of factory ammunition and prices are also reasonable(our market is not huge). In the old days many hunters had only one rifle so it had to fit most(all) game you wanted to hunt. I don´t think that hunting and gun culture differs too much in Nordic countries. I think it is good to think about what kind of rifles are you going to get in future. Are you going for only one rifle to do it all or are you going to get many for different game.
@SuperCamper , hello, we don't have grizzly bears here, but brown brears we have. It is almost the same. Population size is different from place to place, but there are enough that population must be controlled by hunting. We don't have black bears in Northern Europe.
I had a .308 Marlin Express lever action in a 336 action. It came out with the .308 FTX bullet and still does. I sold it many years ago but I still see ammo on the shelves.
@@HobbitHomes263 the 307 came out in 1982 and the 308 Marlin Express came out in 2007 when Hornady developed that LEVERevolution ammo with the Flextip bullet to try and duplicate the 308 Winchester.
I went to Alaska on a guided hunt with my cousin's guide company, they used 12ga shotguns. I went out 20 years later they used 12 gauge shotguns and 308, a few used 30-06 or 338 federal.
I think the first two say about what I was thinking. Not my 1st choice for big ones but I'd feel pretty good about having a .308 if I ran into one unexpectedly. Anything much smaller and you might want to shoot to miss.
@@jk-kr8jt If your about to get chewed on sure, if it's pretty calm you can sometimes scare them away by shooting. But do what you want of course. shrugs
Well if a brown bear is charging you at close range, you better have that .308 in a semi-auto and try to get at least 2 or 3 hits, or you will face the unpleasant experience of being EATEN ALIVE.
308 works just fine for bear. 22lr is about all i use for any small game. I dont think i would have ever considered using a center-fire cartridge for bird hunting. But if it works go for it! Its pretty cool hearing from people from all around the world! 👍
I hunted turkey for years and use a 22mag fmj reliably inside of 75 yards and shot inside 100 without losing one. No meat damage and accurate enough for a head shot if you wanted to.
Ron, I really enjoy these Q&A videos. I play a bit of a game with them. I listen to the question, hit pause and answer it myself. Then I hit play (or whatever it's call on these darn smartphones) and listen to your answer. You're from South Dakota (originally) and I'm from Illinois, but I swear we must be related. Keep 'em coming. I think, could be wrong, the twisted tubular magazine you're thinking of is the old Remington pump. Might be the model 14. It was the home of the 25, 30, 32 and 35 Remington line of cartridges. Sadly only the 35 Rem soldiers on in the Marlin levers. There may have been other twist tubular magazine rifles, but that the one that came to mind first. Please let us know how you like the 270 gr in your 375. I like the 375 and never had a problem with 300 gr pills. That served me fell and has accounted for hundreds of animals. Just my experience. A couple of years ago I did use a friend's 375 with 270 gr cor-loktd Remington ammo to take several elands, kudus, zebras and giraffes, those old cup and core preformed fine. All the best to you Ron. Cheers, Jeff.
Your videos are wholesome and informative. I'd love to see you do a field video with Paul Harrell. Your videos and humor are similar and would have a large over lap of interested viewers
Ron: I heard you talking about using a 375HH. In the early 70's I was introduced to the 375 by a guy at elk hunting. He moved down from Alaska to Wyoming . I happened to notice some BIG cartridges in his ammo belt and inquired about them, he said they were 375 H&H. I got the bug and had to have one of the big guys. Over the years I killed many Elk Moose and a yellowstone buffalo . Early on I started loading with H4894 and using Speer 235 gr bullets . All were 1 shot kills except a moose which took 2 shots because of misplacement on my part. I don't know what you are after in Africa but you may want to give Speer 235 gr.hot core a try. I recovered mostof the bullets and they mushroomed very well and never came apart and had very good velocity. I enjoy your shows keep up the good work.
I live in MT near the northern continental divide (largest pop. of grizzlies in lower 48). 308 is my preferred hunting/bear protection. Granted its an ar10. I cant think of anything better than semi auto 308 with rifle accuracy for bear protection.
My suggestion for a rifle for an Elk and Brown bear on Afognak Island. Is the .35 Whelen loaded with good quality 225gr bullets like Nosler Partitions, Barnes TSX or Swift A frames.
Regarding coyotes its important to point out that they were not trully a wood species. The woods were the domain of the wolves(well all the american continent to be fair) and the coyotes remained in the savanas, the plains, etc. But now that we have devasted wolves population AND we cut down most forests to live there or to farm the land, we have artificially created the perfect habitat for coyotes. They also use our forest roads system here in Quebec to travel great distance and find new farm fields to live nearby. They have really benefited presence.
We have wolf/coyote mixes. The 75/25 are long legged wolves western great lakes making them bigger. The 60/40 wolves of eastern great lakes have a lot of coyote looks to them. More red in the fur.
nobody ever did a genetic test on an pre-colonial Eastern red wolf. Canines have been in the Americas, from FL to AK including the forest, throughout all of recorded history, except for places where theyve been eradicated by man.
There are coyotes in my neighborhood in town, just south of Tampa. I can hear them at night. I've seen a dead one on the side of the road near the main drag during rush hour. My inkaws have seen them on the luxury/Beach islands that are often akin to tourism resorts.
In Germany they liked the 22 hornet and 222 and Remington did the twist magazine in the 141. I was going to say, you dont need antimony in black powder and a lot of guys are going to powder coating. A mixture Tin and lead makes good bullets for low velocity, like black powder and hand guns.
Answer to that question #6, and i had to check the reloading manuals for it and only seen the ammo once it's the 307 win, and it was a rimmed 308 for lever actions, needless to say it flopped and going obsolete.
In Sweden it is generally like this. (With a 1000 exceptions of course) If your hunting forest grouse with a dog. The 22 wmr is popular (but not exclusive) If your hunting it with skis on your feet the 6.5x55 or 308 is very common. But you often bring your most accurate rifle for this job. The ranges can be long. That big bird shrinks at 250 meters 😅
Ron, I did 8 hunting trips to Africa between 1995- 2013. Started with all copper Barnes x, then later Barnes Triple Shock. Also used Trophy Bonded on one hunt. You can't go wrong with the Barnes or the Trophy Bonded- always either pass through or very deep penetration. Looking forward to see how you do with the Hammerhead. Good luck in Africa!
.308 gets alot of hate with the right bullet I wouldn't feel under gunned bullet like barens ttsx or prolly even a good bonded soft point Ron and his love for the .308 lol just kidding good videos Ron love watching
I’m not saying it’s the best but Iike what was said before with the right bullet and a good accurate shot I think the 308 would kill anything. Ive heard stories about elephant poachers using far smaller rounds to down them for they’ve ivory so yeah I’d shoot a grizzly with a 308
also the ammo choice for me was 180 grain winchester soft points or core locks 180 and 220 none of those were hard enough but I think the aluminum tip 180s for elk we have now for 300 mags and bigger they had solid brass and copper but honestly cause of what the pipe line opporators said Nothing shy of a 50 cal is going to stop the realy big bears
for hunting or combat accuracy you can use different brass. you can weigh mixed brass & bullets to get good accuracy. the main thing is powder charges , slower powder & fast burn rates to barrel length& bullet weight.
I have no experience myself but here in Finland popular cartridges for all kinds of rifle bird hunting are 222, 223, 243, 6,5x55, 6,5 creedmoor and 308, but i have even heard of guys shooting black grouse with 9,3x62. With a fmj bullet it seems to make no difference what cartridge you use. Also 22lr is legally too small for black grouse here, the minimum seems to be 22magnum or 22hornet depending on the load.
Chiming in as a Swede here, it's allowed to hunt Ptarmigans and Hazel Grouse, however Black Grouse and Capercaille is considered needing more performance. So that's the 22 Hornady, 22WM and up. And just like you say Eero, it's very much a wide variety what caliber is used. Expanding bullets are not required, and often not wanted, because of the meat-destroying effect. What is popular around here is late early winter and throughout parts of winter is skiing through the woods, seeing Capercaille or Black Grouse perching on top of pine and fir trees, trying to get close enough for a shot, but shots are often taken from 200m+, so 22lr or 22wm wouldn't be my choice of calibre any way.
I was a 308 detractor for a long time but to be honest it still is a pretty effective cartrige, i still think sniper system should have better range cartrige like .338lap and have 308 for battle rifles or dmr
With the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, it is easy to lapse into criticism of the .308/7.62x51mm NATO cartridge as the choice for military for an alliance like NATO. There are more-efficient choices available, such as cartridges which fire projectiles in the 6.5-7mm (.264-.284-cal.) range. However, if you look at the major powers and what they have used to arm their fighting men since the turn of the 20th century, they have consistently selected cartridges in the .30-.32 caliber range. The British Empire relied upon the .303 for years, which is classed in the .31-caliber range. Germany relied upon 8mm Mauser (7.92x57), which classes in the .32-caliber range. Japan started WWII using 6.5x50, which is a .264-caliber cartridge, but switched midway to 7.7mm, which is of .31-caliber. Italy started and finished with 6.5mm Carcano. France used the 7.5x54mm, which is a .30-caliber & the Swiss used 7.5x55, also a .30-caliber chambering. Russia's 7.62x54R, which is still used today more than 120 years after its introduction, is also in the .30-.31-caliber range. Some smaller nations had more-unique and offbeat choices, such as Sweden using the 6.5x55, but in the main, thirty caliber cartridges were chosen. Many militaries liked the aerodynamic efficiency and modest recoil of 6.5-7mm projectiles when fired from rifles, but preferred heavier projectiles for use in automatic weapons, such as medium and general-purpose machine guns, since the heavier .30-.32-caliber bullets retained momentum better at longer ranges and thereby had better terminal performance. For snipers, until maybe thirty years ago, any shot past a thousand yards was considered quite long, and since most snipers and designated marksmen took their shots inside 800 yards (or meters, as the case may be) the majority of the time, there really wasn't much of a sense of urgency about adopting something more efficient. The .308 may not be the "best" performer inside that range, but it was/is a good one, which was apparently enough for their uses. It is an excellent general-purpose cartridge, which is one reason it has remained in use for nearly seventy years since its introduction in the 1950s. Remember, too, that the senior officers making the choices of cartridges for the NATO alliance at the time, such as the now i(n)famous Colonel Rene Studler, U.S. Army Ordnance Dept., were men born in the late 19th century and who came of age during the era of WWI. A period of time in which thirty-caliber cartridges were the king of the hill.
The 17 Rem is sometimes overlooked. I would try that for grouse. Ammo might be rather hard to come by. Fun round and packs a lot of punch and the rifles I have shot have been really accurate.
I've had a 308 marlin express for about 12 years. Love my rifle and the cartridge. Ammo is only made by the Hornady Leverevolution and Remington core locks round nose. I always used the hornadys as my rifle does not care for the remington too much. Not as accurate and seems to swell a little and hard to eject. Ammo has always been hard to find and pretty much impossible now but I have enough to last me a bunch more years. Wonderful woods rifle for deer. My shots are pretty much limited to under 100 yards as I hunt in the woods in Maryland. Every deer I've killed with it has dropped in its tracks. Glad to see someone asked about it. Thanks for your question and answer on it.
I know when you talking about quail or some people causing partridges. I haven't seen one in 20 years and when I was growing up those thousands of them running around everville. I don't. It's bobcats or coyotes killing them out but in my neck of the woods I ain't no quail anymore and I love your show
Rather than the Marlin express you can just get a Savage 99 in 308, 300 Savage, or 7mm-08. Rotary magazine, but still an excellent and superbly accurate rifle.
@@tims.5995 They didn’t make that many and they’re kind of expensive when you find them. The .300 Savage and 308 Winchester were way more common. But they also made them in 243, 30-30, and 7mm-08 and others.
For elk and in grizz country use a 325 wsm or 338 lapua or if ya wanna reload hot loads 35 whelen is a beast i use 338-378 weatherby but i know not everyone has the $for it
I'm a Idaho resident and I use a 22lr or my 22mag most the time the Grouse are 10ft right off the trail but sometimes they're 25 to 30 yards but I try to stick with the head shots
Given the right distance and shot placement, a 308 winchester will kill just about anything in North America! It's my favorite round of all time, as I find it personally more versatile where I live then any other caliber. And I only like it slightly more than the 30-06 because of its more mild recoil! But overall, if I was hunting a Grizzly Bear, I'm taking something like a 30-06 or bigger!
A point on us changing the habitat. In europe you can follow were the human population spread itself and built communities by looking for were nettles grow. Because we farmed it for fiber for fabric. It is processed the same way as linnen. And it grows in pretty rough soil.
This was one fun video. I was really impressed with your bird imitation.. wow that was so real I ran and got my gun!!!,very informative Thanks again from N.E. Utah.
@Paul I agree, 338 win mag has been around and nobody can argue its effectiveness. The advantage of the rpm only comes out if you’re after a lighter, compact package.
I know this is an older post, but if I remember correctly, the 308 Marlin Express is pretty much a rimmed 300 Savage as far as ballistics goes. And in the Marlin, you're pretty much stuck with one of the flex tip bullets. The 300 Savage gives more options if you handload. Pressure is the same for both cartridges. I'm a fan of lever guns, be it Winchester, Marlin, or Savage. I have examples of all three in my safe, mostly Winchesters 1894s, 1895s,and 1892s. As far as Savage goes, it's only one, A 1950 Savage model 99 in 300 Savage and I absolutely love it.
Yes, ballistics are about identical. The Marlin was optimized for shooting in tube magazine lever rifles. The Savage in vertical stack magazines. It's the magazine style/rifle that will determine which can be loaded with which bullets.
i use 308 with Sako 8g FMJ for bird hunting. shooting distances can be surprising long, so you need some power if you gonna shoot for example 300 meters.
Another option for a powerful load (im not reccomending to anyone for dangerous game its just an observation of mine) without going to something huge is a 300 win mag with 220gr woodleigh weldcore RN bullet. Plus there is a 300 win mag in almost any rifle type. The recoil is still stout, but less than real big loads
Ron consider when Col Craig boddington was asked 1 gun 375 h and h. Someone improved it ackley or otherwise now recoil impulse feet per second back was faster and total recoil pounds was more but picked it up several hundred feet per second. Nosler partition or barnes tsx swift A frame is good but just not cost effective
I think you are right on point. I live in Texas and I can see the change in wildlife habitats being taken away by people. So our entire ecosystem is really being turn over its head. We have to strike a balance some time soon before we loose it all.
i have known of three bears taken on kodiak years ago with a 243, one with a 7x08, one with a 7 mag helped by two 300winmags and an interior griz with a 270 but it seems to me like taking a supercub up against a su35 in ariel combat. at the same time i knew of one on the kenai took 4 shots from a 458 and afriend fired 4 rounds at a bear with his 460 weatherby when the scope went black. there are many good bear rounds so it just depends on what you can shoot reliably
338 win mag I think would be best overall for Black or Grizzly bears. I wished they would make a modern and improved 338 win mag something similar to the 338 lapua but even better developed and affordable.
Afognak has had several fatal bear/hunter encounters. Some bumping into each other on game trails, which are the easiest routes through that rainforest, others due to the bears wanting what the hunter has brought down. Years ago there was an ADF&G biologist who went into the pucker brush to take out wounded, by others, brown bears. He used a .308 Winchester at close quarters. But then, he might be the exception in the cool customer department. Ranges on Afognak are not long distance shooting. A .338 WM or .375 H&H, with proper bullets, will do nicely for the elk and bear, if you are not over gunned.
A good cool headed shooter is better off than a casual not so good shooter with a big magnum!!! I can practice twice as much or more with my 308 than most magnum guys can unless they reload and built their stock years ago and then they might be equal to me, but not cheaper.
Everyone seems to immediately talk about Alaska. Well, there are 49 other states, and 39 of them have bears. I personally took at 7’ tall 400lb black bear with a .308. Head shot using Remington corelokt ammo. One shot was all it took.
What was this in? I live in NC and we have some decent sized black bears here, but my wife and I go to visit her friend in Wyoming where they have some big ass bears.
The 308 Marlin Express is loaded with a 160gr FTX (flex-tip) bullet that is constructed to not open as quickly as the same weight bullet used in 30/30 ammo of the same type. The problem is the case is truly unique, being loosely based on the 220 Swift. To further confuse the issue, the 338 Marlin Express is built on yet another case, the 376 Steyr, so despite the very similar naming of these two cartridges, their cases are not at all the same.
In Maine we can hunt partridge with rifles. Usually get one with a 22 rimfire or AR every year. Lots of meat damage. Best gun for meat hunting on grouse is a 410 TC Encore pistol 3 inch 7.5 lead. Aim for the head. Shoot them at close range. Fun birds to hunt.
I crank out my reloads with a few proven recipes. They have generally the same characteristics. They shoot around 1 MOA, deliver good velocities and I use good bullets.
I'm 74 and have lived and hunted in Northern Michigan
Most of my adult life. I remember when the go to
Caliber was the 30-30 .
Lots of black bear fell to the
Old time favorite.
bullet placement is EVERYTHING
Best explanation why predator hunting makes sense ever. Applies also for Germany, where the general public does not understand why predetor hunting is a good thing for nature. Thank you for the video.
First and only bear I've shot was a 400# black bear with a 308 win. 180 grain, thru 1 shoulder, lung, heart, lung, broke other shoulder. It moved 5 yards only because it was on a slope and rolled.
Here in Sweden we shoot big brown bears with 308 Win. No problem with for example with Norma 180 grains Oyrx or Alaska. Also with 30-06 and 6,5x55.
My first rifle was a Carl Gustav sporterized carbine 96 Mauser. I took it's penetration capabilities for granted until I shot a few deer with a 30-06. 156 grain Norma round nose soft point (the old stuff with a cupronickel jacket) would shoot through any deer at any angle and deep into (sometimes through) the tree behind it.
yes, everthing between 6,5x55 and 9,3x62 is more or less good. i would prefer 8x57is
In Russia 12 gauge is popular😮
There's the answer.
You are spot on Ron. It’s up to us to be good stewards of the land and animals.
Alot of people don't know that the rifles that homesteaded Alaska and have killed more Grizzly than any others are the Enfield in 303 Brit, the Krag in 30-40 and the 03A3 in '06. The rifles and cartridges may still hold the record so a modern .308 technically can take even the largest Browns.
308 will easily kill anything on the continent, wouldn’t be my choice for an expensive hunt traveling across the country but if elk or grizzly were local id have no issue using it. If I’ve got 10 grand into the hunt I’ll be bringing a bigger rifle just for the increased range to maximize the chance of filling that expensive tag.
The problem is people think they need the same, super tough, super deep penetrating bullets that are used on other “dangerous game”. So grandpappy shoots a bear with a 30-06 loaded with a bullet designed for buffalo, gets poor results, and blames the 30-06 instead of the bullet. Tells his son horror stories about using 30-06 on bears, so his son takes a 300 win mag loaded with the same, overly hard dg bullet, gets poor results, and now here we are, a generation of people thinking bears require copper solids being pushed by Weatherby magnums, and anyone using .308 is nuts.
Truth is, .308 with a nosler partition, or a winchester ballistic silver tip will pulverize a bears vital organs.
@@fnkdtnk My AK interior griz fell to two 180-gr. Barnes TSX bullets. The first penetrated the heart and off ran the bear. The second hit the spine and killed him instantly. I found that one in the snowbank beyond the bear. Slug weighed 180-grains. Cartridge was Bordens 300 Caribou, an improved 300 Win Mag.
Yes and there’s some Indians that’s crawled into the den and shot them on the 22 pistol I don’t care too and as far as 308 I consider the bear has to eat too so get after it
@@jaydunbar7538 keep in mind I mean the .308 for DEFENSE against a sudden grizzly attack. In semi auto rifle.
For a hunt certainly I would use a heavier caliber in a bolt action, as long as I am not alone, and am accompanied by at least 1 more adequately armed person whom I trust.
I say "trust" because rangers report that in most instances when there is a party of only 2 and 1 gets attacked by a grizz, the other person RUNS AWAY ! Surprising, but in most cases, that's what happens !
For bear protection a 308 still beats a handgun
Forsure... its funny when people say you need a 44 mag or a 480 ruger or even a 50 smith but then say a 308 is not enough 😂
@@sparky_-mf2cs they obviously cant do the math
Especially a HIGH CAPACITY .308
@@sparky_-mf2cs I've always made a funny face when trying to figure that out as well
@@sparky_-mf2cs well I'd take a 10MM Glock with a 13rd mag over a bolt action .308 any day for a charging grizz. A semi-auto high capacity .308 is a different story. Most recommend handguns over a rifle because they are hikers and the weight of a rifle is too cumbersome. Saying a pistol caliber is enough and a .308 is not in general is very stupid but I can't say I've ever heard anyone say that.
Ron has the absolute most polite and respectful burns of all time. From now on, he should be referred to as The Legend.
That's what we used in the Navy in the 1980s for polar bear defence. M-14 w m80
Ron, you are spot on with prey predator relationships.
27:04 With as much as you know, still happy to admit where your knowledge/experience stops. I assume that's why you still have the respect of the community all these decades later. Keep up the good work, Ron!
I do not care about anyone elses advice. Ron Spomer is the advisor to go with!!!
From England. Wow! This presenter is the ultimate communicator.
I grew up on kodiak island alaska,my dad opened the airport in 1967,park muncy was the #1 guide for hunters out of state,my dad hunted with him and got kodiak brown bears,elk,deer etc,but we always had airplanes so went to the mainland for moose ,mountain goat and reindeer,I used a 30-06 while dad prefer his 7mm.At 10 that 30-06 kicked my butt lol.Shot alot of deer with 30-30 mostly,even got stationed on Kodiak 2 times in the Coast Guard,havent been back since 1990,great hunting.
When I lived in Alaska my choices were 35 Whelen 338 win and 45-70. When out fishing it was a 12ga pump
I carry a 12 gauge at work (land surveying) because a rifle seems to offend clients. Even with slugs a shotgun doesn’t measure up to a .308, especially a 10 shot “scout rifle”
@@danhiggins5393 depending on the exact load, a 3in slug has about 15-20% more energy at the muzzle than a 308
@@briant7652 I don't know if we have enough statistics to definitely say that "rifles are typically better for large bears". I've only seen one study going over all historic bear attacks where firearms were used for self defense, and every bear that was hit by any bullet at all stopped its attack. The most common used was 9mm. Now I wouldn't trust a 9mm personally. My point is the data set is small so it's definitely a debatable topic. I'm sure 308 does well, and probably has a lot better penetration. 20% more energy in a slug can't be a negative though, and you're less likely to get a pass through (so all of that energy is dumped in target). I think the reasoning goes both ways
@@briant7652 you didn't engage with what I said at all. I, like the guide, also suspect rifles penetrate better. But then the other reasoning is that if you get a pass through, and you didn't hit a vital organ, then that icepick wound cavity may be useless. Even a bear shot through the lungs or heart would still have enough time to close distance before expiring. The 12ga slug would be unlikely to have that problem.
But then what I was saying before: this is all academic because we don't have enough information. And the main study we do have suggests it doesn't really matter what you use, as long as you are able to get shots on target.
The best advice I was told years ago. When it comes to bears. and no matter what you have. Keep shooting until it goes down. I have seen a bear outrun a squirrel, and the squirrel had a ten yard head start. Also witnessed a good friend of mine get mauled, so I have a lot of respect for bears.
PO Ackley Book is the world's best book to this day explaining case powder capacity as related to velocity performance and bore size. I read the covers off this book literally. I have to remind myself that bigger is not always better when it comes to cartridge case capacity and refer to PO Ackley oftentimes.
Wouldn’t think twice about .308 for bear..
I had zero issue killing elk with .308 at 400 yards. Taken moose with .270 as well.
I think people worry to much about having a big rifle, personally I prefer a bigger cartridge for expensive hunts I’m traveling for but if it’s a local hunt and you can wait for a good shot then it’s just not an issue.
I think that copper solids really enhance the effectiveness of the .308
Thank you Ron for another informative Q&A. Best wishes for a great week.
Canadian Rangers are issued 200 .308 Win 180 grain Nosler Accubond rounds every year and they hunt polar bears.
After seeing my test results from 308 and 30-06 with a 168 grain TSX, I can't imagine anything could survive it. That being said, I hunt whitetails in Michigan 😆. A few of the guys if talked to that have hunted Alaska say that the 300WSM with either a nosler partition in 180gr+ or Barnes TSX in 180gr is the bread and butter up there. I definitely agree with the choice of 338 win mag for and overall rifle. Abundance of ammo for it there.
When I lived in Montana, I elk hunted in grizzly country. Always with a 338. Never had a problem, but I was prepared none the less. I did take a brown bear 10’6”. Probably a thousand pounds. 338 was enough gun. I would have felt better with a 375.
For capercaillie I'd advise for using a 22 Hornet or WM or a 17 HMR. If one uses a too fast and powerful caliber the exit hole is a real challenge for any taxidermist. Same goes for bullets that fracture into small parts.
Old hunters sometimes used FMJ .222Win, though that needs a very accurate shot, as it will punch a straight hole without expansion, which risks long searches for the shot animal.
This comment put a smile on my face. I almost forgot about the old 222. Good stuff man god bless.
my friend in Finland use 6.5x55 with 140gr fmj bullet and achive good result on capercallie.
The .308 is terrible for bears. It just tears them up and kills them. What is good for bears is lots of wild lands, honey, bug-rich rotten stumps, skunk cabbage, mild winters, warm sunshine, careful drivers, salmon, and lots of careless campers who leave their food out.
whats good for bears is a hiker without a .308
I like live Bears too!
308 will work for me😅
Bear stew is delicious from what I hear to
That’s something a bear would say
Hi. Top bird hunting with a rifle has been successful in Sweden with a fully jacketed 6.5 round nose. Good precision and adequate knock down with a round nose. Since one needs a light weapon after long ski trips after birds, single shot rifles 22 Hornet or 5.6x52 have been popular.
Adding in here that the shots are often taken from distances of 100m+, often 200m+, so 22lr or 22wm would neither be feasible nor 22lr allowed. At least in Sweden
Close range/brush, the .45-70 cures all ails. Not too fancy, not too sophisticated, but by golly she gets it done.
Even a 500 grain lead bullet with 70 grains of black powder will blow a hole straight thru the biggest North American buffalo. It will do the same on the biggest bears.
OR... get a 450bushy in an AR15 and have fancy AND sophisticated all at the same time along with 45-70 like ballistics...
@@brucepk631 I indeed have that very setup...also have a .458 SOCOM upper as well, but the .450 and .458 are very similar in ballistics and the SOCOM ammo is damned hard to find.
@@blueduck9409I'mjkj h fdui
325 WSM for bears, compact rifle firing a powerful cartridge.
22 Hornet is a great oldy. Takes over from the 22RF and is still quiet. Cheers
Well he seemed confident hunting in grizz woods when he hunted all his other game why change now? A 308 with a good penetrating bullett under 300yds will do the job, if he puts it in the right spot.
Well sounds like he's going on a destination hunt to an area with a high density of large coastal brown bears. And him saying he's used to hunting caribou and sheep I'm guessing he's more used to hunting the interior with lower numbers of the smaller inland grizzlies. Up until the 1970s coastal brown bears and inland grizzlies were considered separate species because of the difference in size and behavior, and still today many alaskans distinguish between 'brown bear' and 'grizzly'. My guess is he's intimidated by the reputation of the coastal browns, and that isn't unwise
@@christopherrowley7506 better have to much power and not need it than to need it and not have it tis why i use 338-378weatherby or 378 weatherby 🙂
Longtrailside, how dare you apply logic and reason on the internet?!?! Everybody knows that a big brown bear can only be taken with a 50 BMG (minimum), better with a 30mm cannon.
Actually it sounds like he has opinions. As good as a 308 can be, if he has bigger, that he is comfortable with, why not give it a whirl. A 180gr or 200gr bullet in a 308 will do a browny, under ideal conditions. But what about under less than ideal conditions?
Have a great day and please stop using common sense, logic and reason. 🙂🙂
@@jk-kr8jt There used to be an oooooold youtube video of a hunter with 3 friends hunting 1 guy filming brown bear in alaska. One took a shot at a grizz from a good distance. The bear immediately started to charge at the hunters full bore. They all opened fired at the bear and hit the bear multiple times over and over again, reloading with large caliber rifles. The bear finally collapsed feet from where the hunters stood. That video taught me 2 serious lessons. Shot placement for a charging bear is the brain or upper spine to stop a charging bear. And the second lesson is magnum calibers dont mean shit to a pissed off charging grizzly, unless you packing a full auto 50bmg. Ive seen videos of them killed with simple recurve bows, 308, 300wm, 375 hh, ect, practically dropped on the spot. They are not hard to kill generally, buuuuut if its a bear with a will to live or a pissed off bear that wants to fight, and you shoot it. Juat be prepared for it to fight back. Seen similair with black bear also, but nothing ever like ive seen in that video! It was unreal...!
It would be best to hold the range to under 100 yds for both bullet placement and retained energy. Most guides don't like hunters taking long shots on dangerous game.
Good call on that 22Hornet suggestion. A friend of mine uses that for Turkey.
For black grouse and capercaillie I’ve used .22 WMR, 6.5 Creedmoor, .308 and .30-06. Here in Finland also .222, .22-250, .223 are also often used. Usually the birds are shot from tree tops. As they can spot the hunter far away, shooting distances are often 150-250 meters. Therefore flat shooting rifle and high bc bullets help. Bullet should be fmj if you want some meat to cook after succesful shot.
Finnish hunters hunt big birds. We mostly use calibers/cartridges that are common here and easy to get. Ron Spomer once called me pragmatic and that is a good word to describe many hunters in Finland. Years and years .308 has been the cartridge to go to. It can handle everything from birds to bears, it has a huge variety of factory ammunition and prices are also reasonable(our market is not huge). In the old days many hunters had only one rifle so it had to fit most(all) game you wanted to hunt. I don´t think that hunting and gun culture differs too much in Nordic countries. I think it is good to think about what kind of rifles are you going to get in future. Are you going for only one rifle to do it all or are you going to get many for different game.
@@lassevatto7164are there a lot of grizzly in Finland? Do you have black bears?
@SuperCamper , hello, we don't have grizzly bears here, but brown brears we have. It is almost the same. Population size is different from place to place, but there are enough that population must be controlled by hunting. We don't have black bears in Northern Europe.
I have a 325 wsm and it’s a lever with a magazine. It works.
I love my Ruger#1 in 375 ruger, I shoot hornady 300 grain DGX.
I had a .308 Marlin Express lever action in a 336 action. It came out with the .308 FTX bullet and still does. I sold it many years ago but I still see ammo on the shelves.
307?
@@HobbitHomes263 the 307 came out in 1982 and the 308 Marlin Express came out in 2007 when Hornady developed that LEVERevolution ammo with the Flextip bullet to try and duplicate the 308 Winchester.
Lead styphnate is also used for primers. Old potassium chlorate is no longer used because they were corrosive.
I went to Alaska on a guided hunt with my cousin's guide company, they used 12ga shotguns. I went out 20 years later they used 12 gauge shotguns and 308, a few used 30-06 or 338 federal.
12 gauge is so underrated. A slug hits like a dump truck…
338 Federal needs much more use
Wool and polypropylene are a great combination. Wool insulates even when wet.
Nylons starts stinking heavily after just a day.
I think the first two say about what I was thinking. Not my 1st choice for big ones but I'd feel pretty good about having a .308 if I ran into one unexpectedly. Anything much smaller and you might want to shoot to miss.
Dead is dead. Never shoot to miss. 223 to 500 A-square are all better than getting chewed on.
@@jk-kr8jt If your about to get chewed on sure, if it's pretty calm you can sometimes scare them away by shooting. But do what you want of course. shrugs
@@jk-kr8jt WORD!
Well if a brown bear is charging you at close range, you better have that .308 in a semi-auto and try to get at least 2 or 3 hits, or you will face the unpleasant experience of being EATEN ALIVE.
@@sman3569 Lol, I'll keep it in mind.
308 works just fine for bear. 22lr is about all i use for any small game. I dont think i would have ever considered using a center-fire cartridge for bird hunting. But if it works go for it! Its pretty cool hearing from people from all around the world! 👍
I used a 338 win mag with 225 grain tsx bullets to take my brown bear on the Alaska Peninsula. 9'3" bear.
Can't beat the TSX
I hunted turkey for years and use a 22mag fmj reliably inside of 75 yards and shot inside 100 without losing one. No meat damage and accurate enough for a head shot if you wanted to.
In my state by law we are only allowed to use a shotgun or crossbow or bow or muzzleloader for turkey.
Ron, I really enjoy these Q&A videos. I play a bit of a game with them. I listen to the question, hit pause and answer it myself. Then I hit play (or whatever it's call on these darn smartphones) and listen to your answer. You're from South Dakota (originally) and I'm from Illinois, but I swear we must be related. Keep 'em coming.
I think, could be wrong, the twisted tubular magazine you're thinking of is the old Remington pump. Might be the model 14. It was the home of the 25, 30, 32 and 35 Remington line of cartridges. Sadly only the 35 Rem soldiers on in the Marlin levers. There may have been other twist tubular magazine rifles, but that the one that came to mind first.
Please let us know how you like the 270 gr in your 375. I like the 375 and never had a problem with 300 gr pills. That served me fell and has accounted for hundreds of animals. Just my experience. A couple of years ago I did use a friend's 375 with 270 gr cor-loktd Remington ammo to take several elands, kudus, zebras and giraffes, those old cup and core preformed fine.
All the best to you Ron.
Cheers, Jeff.
Your videos are wholesome and informative. I'd love to see you do a field video with Paul Harrell. Your videos and humor are similar and would have a large over lap of interested viewers
Ron: I heard you talking about using a 375HH. In the early 70's I was introduced to the 375 by a guy at elk hunting. He moved down from Alaska to Wyoming . I happened to notice some BIG cartridges in his ammo belt and inquired about them, he said they were 375 H&H. I got the bug and had to have one of the big guys. Over the years I killed many Elk Moose and a yellowstone buffalo . Early on I started loading with H4894 and using Speer 235 gr bullets . All were 1 shot kills except a moose which took 2 shots because of misplacement on my part. I don't know what you are after in Africa but you may want to give Speer 235 gr.hot core a try. I recovered mostof the bullets and they mushroomed very well and never came apart and had very good velocity. I enjoy your shows keep up the good work.
I live in MT near the northern continental divide (largest pop. of grizzlies in lower 48). 308 is my preferred hunting/bear protection. Granted its an ar10. I cant think of anything better than semi auto 308 with rifle accuracy for bear protection.
My suggestion for a rifle for an Elk and Brown bear on Afognak Island. Is the .35 Whelen loaded with good quality 225gr bullets like Nosler Partitions, Barnes TSX or Swift A frames.
No
How about a 338-06 ?
@@billfrederickfrederick2791 That's an excellent choice also.
Yeah, if your a hand loader. Good luck trying to find .35 Whelen factory ammo👌
Regarding coyotes its important to point out that they were not trully a wood species. The woods were the domain of the wolves(well all the american continent to be fair) and the coyotes remained in the savanas, the plains, etc. But now that we have devasted wolves population AND we cut down most forests to live there or to farm the land, we have artificially created the perfect habitat for coyotes.
They also use our forest roads system here in Quebec to travel great distance and find new farm fields to live nearby. They have really benefited presence.
Good information man
The best way to reduce coyote (aka Prairie Wolf) numbers is by introducing wolves
We have wolf/coyote mixes. The 75/25 are long legged wolves western great lakes making them bigger. The 60/40 wolves of eastern great lakes have a lot of coyote looks to them. More red in the fur.
nobody ever did a genetic test on an pre-colonial Eastern red wolf. Canines have been in the Americas, from FL to AK including the forest, throughout all of recorded history, except for places where theyve been eradicated by man.
There are coyotes in my neighborhood in town, just south of Tampa. I can hear them at night.
I've seen a dead one on the side of the road near the main drag during rush hour.
My inkaws have seen them on the luxury/Beach islands that are often akin to tourism resorts.
In Germany they liked the 22 hornet and 222 and Remington did the twist magazine in the 141. I was going to say, you dont need antimony in black powder and a lot of guys are going to powder coating. A mixture Tin and lead makes good bullets for low velocity, like black powder and hand guns.
For the birds use a 308win with lapua 123gr fmj. Smal hole in and out. No meat damage and they die fast. And aim at the white spot
How far out are the birds usually?
@@Dans92578They sit in trees that have a good overview on open areas in the morning. You can get to about 300m before they fly away if they see you.
Excellent forearm veins, Ron. A medics dream!
Answer to that question #6, and i had to check the reloading manuals for it and only seen the ammo once it's the 307 win, and it was a rimmed 308 for lever actions, needless to say it flopped and going obsolete.
In Sweden it is generally like this.
(With a 1000 exceptions of course)
If your hunting forest grouse with a dog. The 22 wmr is popular (but not exclusive)
If your hunting it with skis on your feet the 6.5x55 or 308 is very common. But you often bring your most accurate rifle for this job. The ranges can be long. That big bird shrinks at 250 meters 😅
Ron, I did 8 hunting trips to Africa between 1995- 2013. Started with all copper Barnes x, then later Barnes Triple Shock. Also used Trophy Bonded on one hunt. You can't go wrong with the Barnes or the Trophy Bonded- always either pass through or very deep penetration. Looking forward to see how you do with the Hammerhead. Good luck in Africa!
Great commentary. I just picked up the P.O Ackley book. Although somewhat outdated. Its a very interesting read.
The .30 cal is great, but only as good as the next bullet!
.308 gets alot of hate with the right bullet I wouldn't feel under gunned bullet like barens ttsx or prolly even a good bonded soft point Ron and his love for the .308 lol just kidding good videos Ron love watching
Correct
And Nosler Partitions or Swift A Frame. They go deep!
I’m not saying it’s the best but Iike what was said before with the right bullet and a good accurate shot I think the 308 would kill anything. Ive heard stories about elephant poachers using far smaller rounds to down them for they’ve ivory so yeah I’d shoot a grizzly with a 308
The conservation information is excellent. I realized some of my assumptions were wrong
also the ammo choice for me was 180 grain winchester soft points
or core locks 180 and 220
none of those were hard enough but I think the aluminum tip 180s for elk we have now
for 300 mags and bigger they had solid brass and copper
but honestly cause of what the pipe line opporators said
Nothing shy of a 50 cal is going to stop the realy big bears
Please let us know how your .375 H&H with the HammerHunter performs. Thanks Ron!
Black Grouse full metall jacket 6,5x55 is standard. 22magnum is the minimum legal cartridge in Sweden for tjäder and orre ;)
for hunting or combat accuracy you can use different brass. you can weigh mixed brass & bullets to get good accuracy. the main thing is powder charges , slower powder & fast burn rates to barrel length& bullet weight.
I have no experience myself but here in Finland popular cartridges for all kinds of rifle bird hunting are 222, 223, 243, 6,5x55, 6,5 creedmoor and 308, but i have even heard of guys shooting black grouse with 9,3x62. With a fmj bullet it seems to make no difference what cartridge you use.
Also 22lr is legally too small for black grouse here, the minimum seems to be 22magnum or 22hornet depending on the load.
I shot a ruffed grouse with a 375 hh once. Took its head off and no meat damage.
Chiming in as a Swede here, it's allowed to hunt Ptarmigans and Hazel Grouse, however Black Grouse and Capercaille is considered needing more performance. So that's the 22 Hornady, 22WM and up. And just like you say Eero, it's very much a wide variety what caliber is used. Expanding bullets are not required, and often not wanted, because of the meat-destroying effect.
What is popular around here is late early winter and throughout parts of winter is skiing through the woods, seeing Capercaille or Black Grouse perching on top of pine and fir trees, trying to get close enough for a shot, but shots are often taken from 200m+, so 22lr or 22wm wouldn't be my choice of calibre any way.
Thanks for that explanation on conservation predators and prey.
I was a 308 detractor for a long time but to be honest it still is a pretty effective cartrige, i still think sniper system should have better range cartrige like .338lap and have 308 for battle rifles or dmr
With the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, it is easy to lapse into criticism of the .308/7.62x51mm NATO cartridge as the choice for military for an alliance like NATO. There are more-efficient choices available, such as cartridges which fire projectiles in the 6.5-7mm (.264-.284-cal.) range. However, if you look at the major powers and what they have used to arm their fighting men since the turn of the 20th century, they have consistently selected cartridges in the .30-.32 caliber range.
The British Empire relied upon the .303 for years, which is classed in the .31-caliber range. Germany relied upon 8mm Mauser (7.92x57), which classes in the .32-caliber range. Japan started WWII using 6.5x50, which is a .264-caliber cartridge, but switched midway to 7.7mm, which is of .31-caliber. Italy started and finished with 6.5mm Carcano. France used the 7.5x54mm, which is a .30-caliber & the Swiss used 7.5x55, also a .30-caliber chambering.
Russia's 7.62x54R, which is still used today more than 120 years after its introduction, is also in the .30-.31-caliber range.
Some smaller nations had more-unique and offbeat choices, such as Sweden using the 6.5x55, but in the main, thirty caliber cartridges were chosen. Many militaries liked the aerodynamic efficiency and modest recoil of 6.5-7mm projectiles when fired from rifles, but preferred heavier projectiles for use in automatic weapons, such as medium and general-purpose machine guns, since the heavier .30-.32-caliber bullets retained momentum better at longer ranges and thereby had better terminal performance.
For snipers, until maybe thirty years ago, any shot past a thousand yards was considered quite long, and since most snipers and designated marksmen took their shots inside 800 yards (or meters, as the case may be) the majority of the time, there really wasn't much of a sense of urgency about adopting something more efficient. The .308 may not be the "best" performer inside that range, but it was/is a good one, which was apparently enough for their uses. It is an excellent general-purpose cartridge, which is one reason it has remained in use for nearly seventy years since its introduction in the 1950s.
Remember, too, that the senior officers making the choices of cartridges for the NATO alliance at the time, such as the now i(n)famous Colonel Rene Studler, U.S. Army Ordnance Dept., were men born in the late 19th century and who came of age during the era of WWI. A period of time in which thirty-caliber cartridges were the king of the hill.
The 17 Rem is sometimes overlooked. I would try that for grouse. Ammo might be rather hard to come by. Fun round and packs a lot of punch and the rifles I have shot have been really accurate.
Love your thunderbird. Wore that on my shoulder in the 70s.
I've had a 308 marlin express for about 12 years. Love my rifle and the cartridge. Ammo is only made by the Hornady Leverevolution and Remington core locks round nose. I always used the hornadys as my rifle does not care for the remington too much. Not as accurate and seems to swell a little and hard to eject. Ammo has always been hard to find and pretty much impossible now but I have enough to last me a bunch more years. Wonderful woods rifle for deer. My shots are pretty much limited to under 100 yards as I hunt in the woods in Maryland. Every deer I've killed with it has dropped in its tracks. Glad to see someone asked about it. Thanks for your question and answer on it.
I know when you talking about quail or some people causing partridges. I haven't seen one in 20 years and when I was growing up those thousands of them running around everville. I don't. It's bobcats or coyotes killing them out but in my neck of the woods I ain't no quail anymore and I love your show
I am picking up a Springfield M-1A Socom 16 for a guide gun. It is short, reasonably light, and you can lay down several rounds in a short time.
Have you ever shot a 16" 308? Lol. Had a 16"ar10, loudest thing ever lol
You can buy a high capacity drum magazine too. Carry the drum in your ruck sack.
That SOCOM is an excellent choice, with .308 solid bullets in case of the biggest bears, and fast follow up shots. You can't ask for a better formula.
Spomer has a great book on hunting predators, which I just started. Fantastic book.
ruger m77 guide gun in 338 win mag would work great on bears. 9.3x62 would also work great.
Rather than the Marlin express you can just get a Savage 99 in 308, 300 Savage, or 7mm-08. Rotary magazine, but still an excellent and superbly accurate rifle.
Yeah sure. Theres a lot of savage 99's laying around. I'll just go pick one up at my LGS. In my 44 years on this planet I have only seen 2. Good luck.
@@mattdg1981 I guess I’ve been fortunate? I encounter them regularly in TX. They made well over 1M of them.
I never saw a Savage 99 in 7-08 ?
@@tims.5995 They didn’t make that many and they’re kind of expensive when you find them. The .300 Savage and 308 Winchester were way more common. But they also made them in 243, 30-30, and 7mm-08 and others.
The Savage 99C model in .308 WIN uses a detachable box magazine--carry an extra one when hunting just in case!
and also straight walled case and very very accurate
The 17 HMR would work out well on grouse with head shot’s out to 150 maybe 200 yards.
Depends in the location...Coastal browns, no friggin' way...
For elk and in grizz country use a 325 wsm or 338 lapua or if ya wanna reload hot loads 35 whelen is a beast i use 338-378 weatherby but i know not everyone has the $for it
I'm a Idaho resident and I use a 22lr or my 22mag most the time the Grouse are 10ft right off the trail but sometimes they're 25 to 30 yards but I try to stick with the head shots
Given the right distance and shot placement, a 308 winchester will kill just about anything in North America! It's my favorite round of all time, as I find it personally more versatile where I live then any other caliber. And I only like it slightly more than the 30-06 because of its more mild recoil! But overall, if I was hunting a Grizzly Bear, I'm taking something like a 30-06 or bigger!
.308 WILL kill anything in North America with ease.
Maybe a 30-06 Ackley improved?
.308 is fine for grizzly just use a 180 gr cartridge
@@BaconSlayer69 nosler partitions handloaded to at least 2600fps in your 308!!!
@@Wildwestwrangler I don’t care you replied too late
A point on us changing the habitat. In europe you can follow were the human population spread itself and built communities by looking for were nettles grow. Because we farmed it for fiber for fabric. It is processed the same way as linnen. And it grows in pretty rough soil.
This was one fun video. I was really impressed with your bird imitation.. wow that was so real I ran and got my gun!!!,very informative Thanks again from N.E. Utah.
The mountain men killed grizzly with flintlock mountain rifles, I expect a .308 WIN would get the job done.
As the mountain men, always carry a big knife with whatever rifle you have.
For the Alaska question, the 338 rpm just released would be an ideal option. 225 grain bullet, 20 inch barrel, 6 lb rifle
@Paul I agree, 338 win mag has been around and nobody can argue its effectiveness. The advantage of the rpm only comes out if you’re after a lighter, compact package.
I know this is an older post, but if I remember correctly, the 308 Marlin Express is pretty much a rimmed 300 Savage as far as ballistics goes.
And in the Marlin, you're pretty much stuck with one of the flex tip bullets.
The 300 Savage gives more options if you handload.
Pressure is the same for both cartridges.
I'm a fan of lever guns, be it Winchester, Marlin, or Savage.
I have examples of all three in my safe, mostly Winchesters 1894s, 1895s,and 1892s.
As far as Savage goes, it's only one, A 1950 Savage model 99 in 300 Savage and I absolutely love it.
Yes, ballistics are about identical. The Marlin was optimized for shooting in tube magazine lever rifles. The Savage in vertical stack magazines. It's the magazine style/rifle that will determine which can be loaded with which bullets.
I love your videos. I have learned a lot.
i use 308 with Sako 8g FMJ for bird hunting. shooting distances can be surprising long, so you need some power if you gonna shoot for example 300 meters.
Another option for a powerful load (im not reccomending to anyone for dangerous game its just an observation of mine) without going to something huge is a 300 win mag with 220gr woodleigh weldcore RN bullet. Plus there is a 300 win mag in almost any rifle type. The recoil is still stout, but less than real big loads
Ron consider when Col Craig boddington was asked 1 gun 375 h and h. Someone improved it ackley or otherwise now recoil impulse feet per second back was faster and total recoil pounds was more but picked it up several hundred feet per second. Nosler partition or barnes tsx swift A frame is good but just not cost effective
I think you are right on point. I live in Texas and I can see the change in wildlife habitats being taken away by people. So our entire ecosystem is really being turn over its head. We have to strike a balance some time soon before we loose it all.
i have known of three bears taken on kodiak years ago with a 243, one with a 7x08, one with a 7 mag helped by two 300winmags and an interior griz with a 270 but it seems to me like taking a supercub up against a su35 in ariel combat. at the same time i knew of one on the kenai took 4 shots from a 458 and afriend fired 4 rounds at a bear with his 460 weatherby when the scope went black. there are many good bear rounds so it just depends on what you can shoot reliably
338 win mag I think would be best overall for Black or Grizzly bears. I wished they would make a modern and improved 338 win mag something similar to the 338 lapua but even better developed and affordable.
Just ordered my first TAG shirt. Thank you for the sugestion.
The spiral magazines were on Remington pump rifles before they transitioned to the box style.
P.O. Ackley is from Utah. Oddly enough so is the 50 BMG 45 ACP and the 380 Auto
Afognak has had several fatal bear/hunter encounters. Some bumping into each other on game trails, which are the easiest routes through that rainforest, others due to the bears wanting what the hunter has brought down. Years ago there was an ADF&G biologist who went into the pucker brush to take out wounded, by others, brown bears. He used a .308 Winchester at close quarters. But then, he might be the exception in the cool customer department. Ranges on Afognak are not long distance shooting. A .338 WM or .375 H&H, with proper bullets, will do nicely for the elk and bear, if you are not over gunned.
A good cool headed shooter is better off than a casual not so good shooter with a big magnum!!! I can practice twice as much or more with my 308 than most magnum guys can unless they reload and built their stock years ago and then they might be equal to me, but not cheaper.
Everyone seems to immediately talk about Alaska. Well, there are 49 other states, and 39 of them have bears. I personally took at 7’ tall 400lb black bear with a .308. Head shot using Remington corelokt ammo. One shot was all it took.
What was this in? I live in NC and we have some decent sized black bears here, but my wife and I go to visit her friend in Wyoming where they have some big ass bears.
@@heatheruntz5315 Northern California!
All hail!! The one true ammo God, our Lord Ron. Top bloke. Fact.
The 308 Marlin Express is loaded with a 160gr FTX (flex-tip) bullet that is constructed to not open as quickly as the same weight bullet used in 30/30 ammo of the same type. The problem is the case is truly unique, being loosely based on the 220 Swift. To further confuse the issue, the 338 Marlin Express is built on yet another case, the 376 Steyr, so despite the very similar naming of these two cartridges, their cases are not at all the same.
In Maine we can hunt partridge with rifles. Usually get one with a 22 rimfire or AR every year. Lots of meat damage. Best gun for meat hunting on grouse is a 410 TC Encore pistol 3 inch 7.5 lead. Aim for the head. Shoot them at close range. Fun birds to hunt.
I crank out my reloads with a few proven recipes. They have generally the same characteristics. They shoot around 1 MOA, deliver good velocities and I use good bullets.
What bullets do you use? I’m just starting to look into reloading and trying to get everything in line before I put my orders in. Any recommendations?
I found star line brass for my 460xvr is pretty consistent in weight