@@sparky_-mf2cs well I'd take a 10MM Glock with a 13rd mag over a bolt action .308 any day for a charging grizz. A semi-auto high capacity .308 is a different story. Most recommend handguns over a rifle because they are hikers and the weight of a rifle is too cumbersome. Saying a pistol caliber is enough and a .308 is not in general is very stupid but I can't say I've ever heard anyone say that.
My first rifle was a Carl Gustav sporterized carbine 96 Mauser. I took it's penetration capabilities for granted until I shot a few deer with a 30-06. 156 grain Norma round nose soft point (the old stuff with a cupronickel jacket) would shoot through any deer at any angle and deep into (sometimes through) the tree behind it.
The .308 is terrible for bears. It just tears them up and kills them. What is good for bears is lots of wild lands, honey, bug-rich rotten stumps, skunk cabbage, mild winters, warm sunshine, careful drivers, salmon, and lots of careless campers who leave their food out.
I'm 74 and have lived and hunted in Northern Michigan Most of my adult life. I remember when the go to Caliber was the 30-30 . Lots of black bear fell to the Old time favorite.
Best explanation why predator hunting makes sense ever. Applies also for Germany, where the general public does not understand why predetor hunting is a good thing for nature. Thank you for the video.
Alot of people don't know that the rifles that homesteaded Alaska and have killed more Grizzly than any others are the Enfield in 303 Brit, the Krag in 30-40 and the 03A3 in '06. The rifles and cartridges may still hold the record so a modern .308 technically can take even the largest Browns.
308 will easily kill anything on the continent, wouldn’t be my choice for an expensive hunt traveling across the country but if elk or grizzly were local id have no issue using it. If I’ve got 10 grand into the hunt I’ll be bringing a bigger rifle just for the increased range to maximize the chance of filling that expensive tag.
The problem is people think they need the same, super tough, super deep penetrating bullets that are used on other “dangerous game”. So grandpappy shoots a bear with a 30-06 loaded with a bullet designed for buffalo, gets poor results, and blames the 30-06 instead of the bullet. Tells his son horror stories about using 30-06 on bears, so his son takes a 300 win mag loaded with the same, overly hard dg bullet, gets poor results, and now here we are, a generation of people thinking bears require copper solids being pushed by Weatherby magnums, and anyone using .308 is nuts. Truth is, .308 with a nosler partition, or a winchester ballistic silver tip will pulverize a bears vital organs.
@@fnkdtnk My AK interior griz fell to two 180-gr. Barnes TSX bullets. The first penetrated the heart and off ran the bear. The second hit the spine and killed him instantly. I found that one in the snowbank beyond the bear. Slug weighed 180-grains. Cartridge was Bordens 300 Caribou, an improved 300 Win Mag.
Yes and there’s some Indians that’s crawled into the den and shot them on the 22 pistol I don’t care too and as far as 308 I consider the bear has to eat too so get after it
@@jaydunbar7538 keep in mind I mean the .308 for DEFENSE against a sudden grizzly attack. In semi auto rifle. For a hunt certainly I would use a heavier caliber in a bolt action, as long as I am not alone, and am accompanied by at least 1 more adequately armed person whom I trust. I say "trust" because rangers report that in most instances when there is a party of only 2 and 1 gets attacked by a grizz, the other person RUNS AWAY ! Surprising, but in most cases, that's what happens !
I think people worry to much about having a big rifle, personally I prefer a bigger cartridge for expensive hunts I’m traveling for but if it’s a local hunt and you can wait for a good shot then it’s just not an issue.
I have no experience myself but here in Finland popular cartridges for all kinds of rifle bird hunting are 222, 223, 243, 6,5x55, 6,5 creedmoor and 308, but i have even heard of guys shooting black grouse with 9,3x62. With a fmj bullet it seems to make no difference what cartridge you use. Also 22lr is legally too small for black grouse here, the minimum seems to be 22magnum or 22hornet depending on the load.
Chiming in as a Swede here, it's allowed to hunt Ptarmigans and Hazel Grouse, however Black Grouse and Capercaille is considered needing more performance. So that's the 22 Hornady, 22WM and up. And just like you say Eero, it's very much a wide variety what caliber is used. Expanding bullets are not required, and often not wanted, because of the meat-destroying effect. What is popular around here is late early winter and throughout parts of winter is skiing through the woods, seeing Capercaille or Black Grouse perching on top of pine and fir trees, trying to get close enough for a shot, but shots are often taken from 200m+, so 22lr or 22wm wouldn't be my choice of calibre any way.
Well he seemed confident hunting in grizz woods when he hunted all his other game why change now? A 308 with a good penetrating bullett under 300yds will do the job, if he puts it in the right spot.
Well sounds like he's going on a destination hunt to an area with a high density of large coastal brown bears. And him saying he's used to hunting caribou and sheep I'm guessing he's more used to hunting the interior with lower numbers of the smaller inland grizzlies. Up until the 1970s coastal brown bears and inland grizzlies were considered separate species because of the difference in size and behavior, and still today many alaskans distinguish between 'brown bear' and 'grizzly'. My guess is he's intimidated by the reputation of the coastal browns, and that isn't unwise
Longtrailside, how dare you apply logic and reason on the internet?!?! Everybody knows that a big brown bear can only be taken with a 50 BMG (minimum), better with a 30mm cannon. Actually it sounds like he has opinions. As good as a 308 can be, if he has bigger, that he is comfortable with, why not give it a whirl. A 180gr or 200gr bullet in a 308 will do a browny, under ideal conditions. But what about under less than ideal conditions? Have a great day and please stop using common sense, logic and reason. 🙂🙂
@@jk-kr8jt There used to be an oooooold youtube video of a hunter with 3 friends hunting 1 guy filming brown bear in alaska. One took a shot at a grizz from a good distance. The bear immediately started to charge at the hunters full bore. They all opened fired at the bear and hit the bear multiple times over and over again, reloading with large caliber rifles. The bear finally collapsed feet from where the hunters stood. That video taught me 2 serious lessons. Shot placement for a charging bear is the brain or upper spine to stop a charging bear. And the second lesson is magnum calibers dont mean shit to a pissed off charging grizzly, unless you packing a full auto 50bmg. Ive seen videos of them killed with simple recurve bows, 308, 300wm, 375 hh, ect, practically dropped on the spot. They are not hard to kill generally, buuuuut if its a bear with a will to live or a pissed off bear that wants to fight, and you shoot it. Juat be prepared for it to fight back. Seen similair with black bear also, but nothing ever like ive seen in that video! It was unreal...!
It would be best to hold the range to under 100 yds for both bullet placement and retained energy. Most guides don't like hunters taking long shots on dangerous game.
@@danbowen5106They sit in trees that have a good overview on open areas in the morning. You can get to about 300m before they fly away if they see you.
Say what you will. 308win and 338win are probably some of the best cartridges for game in the north. If i had to recommend any cartridges it would be those 2. But if only 1 it would be 308.
Regarding coyotes its important to point out that they were not trully a wood species. The woods were the domain of the wolves(well all the american continent to be fair) and the coyotes remained in the savanas, the plains, etc. But now that we have devasted wolves population AND we cut down most forests to live there or to farm the land, we have artificially created the perfect habitat for coyotes. They also use our forest roads system here in Quebec to travel great distance and find new farm fields to live nearby. They have really benefited presence.
We have wolf/coyote mixes. The 75/25 are long legged wolves western great lakes making them bigger. The 60/40 wolves of eastern great lakes have a lot of coyote looks to them. More red in the fur.
nobody ever did a genetic test on an pre-colonial Eastern red wolf. Canines have been in the Americas, from FL to AK including the forest, throughout all of recorded history, except for places where theyve been eradicated by man.
Well, if I remember my human history, I think early humans used to kill cave bears with spears, and more recently, American Native tribes with spears, and bows/arrows did in some more modern bears on this Continent. No doubt a number of other races/cultures elsewhere have done similarly, soooo, I suspect it IS possible to take out a bear with a .308 ;) LOL. However, For Myself, back in the distant past when I frequented areas where BIG bears ("Brownies) hung out, I used to carry either a short barrelled 12 Gauge full of heavy slugs, or one of my .375's , depending on whether I was river/lake fishing, or hunting...(course I'm a chicken:)(btw, felt recoil was actually a little LESS with the .375's LOL)
When I lived in Montana, I elk hunted in grizzly country. Always with a 338. Never had a problem, but I was prepared none the less. I did take a brown bear 10’6”. Probably a thousand pounds. 338 was enough gun. I would have felt better with a 375.
Even a 500 grain lead bullet with 70 grains of black powder will blow a hole straight thru the biggest North American buffalo. It will do the same on the biggest bears.
@@brucepk631 I indeed have that very setup...also have a .458 SOCOM upper as well, but the .450 and .458 are very similar in ballistics and the SOCOM ammo is damned hard to find.
First and only bear I've shot was a 400# black bear with a 308 win. 180 grain, thru 1 shoulder, lung, heart, lung, broke other shoulder. It moved 5 yards only because it was on a slope and rolled.
Why doesn't anybody talk about the 300 rum they're the best all-around rifle in the book kill anything on Earth doesn't collapse your lungs when you shoot it faster and more powerful than a 7 mm Magnum shoots almost as far as the 338 Lapua and nobody talks about the 300 ultra mag
After seeing my test results from 308 and 30-06 with a 168 grain TSX, I can't imagine anything could survive it. That being said, I hunt whitetails in Michigan 😆. A few of the guys if talked to that have hunted Alaska say that the 300WSM with either a nosler partition in 180gr+ or Barnes TSX in 180gr is the bread and butter up there. I definitely agree with the choice of 338 win mag for and overall rifle. Abundance of ammo for it there.
For capercaillie I'd advise for using a 22 Hornet or WM or a 17 HMR. If one uses a too fast and powerful caliber the exit hole is a real challenge for any taxidermist. Same goes for bullets that fracture into small parts. Old hunters sometimes used FMJ .222Win, though that needs a very accurate shot, as it will punch a straight hole without expansion, which risks long searches for the shot animal.
I carry a 12 gauge at work (land surveying) because a rifle seems to offend clients. Even with slugs a shotgun doesn’t measure up to a .308, especially a 10 shot “scout rifle”
@@briant7652 I don't know if we have enough statistics to definitely say that "rifles are typically better for large bears". I've only seen one study going over all historic bear attacks where firearms were used for self defense, and every bear that was hit by any bullet at all stopped its attack. The most common used was 9mm. Now I wouldn't trust a 9mm personally. My point is the data set is small so it's definitely a debatable topic. I'm sure 308 does well, and probably has a lot better penetration. 20% more energy in a slug can't be a negative though, and you're less likely to get a pass through (so all of that energy is dumped in target). I think the reasoning goes both ways
@@briant7652 you didn't engage with what I said at all. I, like the guide, also suspect rifles penetrate better. But then the other reasoning is that if you get a pass through, and you didn't hit a vital organ, then that icepick wound cavity may be useless. Even a bear shot through the lungs or heart would still have enough time to close distance before expiring. The 12ga slug would be unlikely to have that problem. But then what I was saying before: this is all academic because we don't have enough information. And the main study we do have suggests it doesn't really matter what you use, as long as you are able to get shots on target.
The best advice I was told years ago. When it comes to bears. and no matter what you have. Keep shooting until it goes down. I have seen a bear outrun a squirrel, and the squirrel had a ten yard head start. Also witnessed a good friend of mine get mauled, so I have a lot of respect for bears.
Given the right distance and shot placement, a 308 winchester will kill just about anything in North America! It's my favorite round of all time, as I find it personally more versatile where I live then any other caliber. And I only like it slightly more than the 30-06 because of its more mild recoil! But overall, if I was hunting a Grizzly Bear, I'm taking something like a 30-06 or bigger!
Ron I would like to hear your opinion on the introduction of wolves in Colorado. I am very opposed , I feel like it may not be a issue if we had the abundance of game during the time of the big herds of Bison two century's ago . Colorado in the last couple of Decades . Deer and Elk especially Mule deer have been on the decline . I'm Not ready to except this notion we need wolves .
.308 gets alot of hate with the right bullet I wouldn't feel under gunned bullet like barens ttsx or prolly even a good bonded soft point Ron and his love for the .308 lol just kidding good videos Ron love watching
I’m not saying it’s the best but Iike what was said before with the right bullet and a good accurate shot I think the 308 would kill anything. Ive heard stories about elephant poachers using far smaller rounds to down them for they’ve ivory so yeah I’d shoot a grizzly with a 308
I think the first two say about what I was thinking. Not my 1st choice for big ones but I'd feel pretty good about having a .308 if I ran into one unexpectedly. Anything much smaller and you might want to shoot to miss.
@@jk-kr8jt If your about to get chewed on sure, if it's pretty calm you can sometimes scare them away by shooting. But do what you want of course. shrugs
Well if a brown bear is charging you at close range, you better have that .308 in a semi-auto and try to get at least 2 or 3 hits, or you will face the unpleasant experience of being EATEN ALIVE.
I live in MT near the northern continental divide (largest pop. of grizzlies in lower 48). 308 is my preferred hunting/bear protection. Granted its an ar10. I cant think of anything better than semi auto 308 with rifle accuracy for bear protection.
Rather than the Marlin express you can just get a Savage 99 in 308, 300 Savage, or 7mm-08. Rotary magazine, but still an excellent and superbly accurate rifle.
@@tims.5995 They didn’t make that many and they’re kind of expensive when you find them. The .300 Savage and 308 Winchester were way more common. But they also made them in 243, 30-30, and 7mm-08 and others.
Ron, I really enjoy these Q&A videos. I play a bit of a game with them. I listen to the question, hit pause and answer it myself. Then I hit play (or whatever it's call on these darn smartphones) and listen to your answer. You're from South Dakota (originally) and I'm from Illinois, but I swear we must be related. Keep 'em coming. I think, could be wrong, the twisted tubular magazine you're thinking of is the old Remington pump. Might be the model 14. It was the home of the 25, 30, 32 and 35 Remington line of cartridges. Sadly only the 35 Rem soldiers on in the Marlin levers. There may have been other twist tubular magazine rifles, but that the one that came to mind first. Please let us know how you like the 270 gr in your 375. I like the 375 and never had a problem with 300 gr pills. That served me fell and has accounted for hundreds of animals. Just my experience. A couple of years ago I did use a friend's 375 with 270 gr cor-loktd Remington ammo to take several elands, kudus, zebras and giraffes, those old cup and core preformed fine. All the best to you Ron. Cheers, Jeff.
From somebody that grew up on the Alaska Peninsula with lots of brown bears. I have no problem with carrying a .308 as a defensive weapon for a brown bear. If I was specifically hunting them I wouldn’t plan to go less than .338 caliber rifle. (There are exceptions)
@@dangerousfreedom4965 for defense only you can put down a brown bear with it due to sheer number of bullets on target. With a 30 round standard capacity magazine with 556 the rifle will penetrate a brown bear, but it won’t put it down in 1 or 2 shots, which would be preferred if hunting, as less bullets means less wasted meat and a better skin, and a more clean kill overall. Purely for defense it will do the job but isn’t the best for hunting AR-15 vs AR-10 for defense id choose the ar-10 though, because it has all the same benefits as an ar-15 (semi auto and larger ammunition capacity than a bolt action) but with the larger caliber. 20 rounds of 7.62 nato will kill most all large game in North America
@@connorl.2170 Be sure that ar10 platform is reliable. Have seen my share of ar10's in action shooting events having reloading issues. My Vepr .308 in an AK platform hasn't been as accurate at distance compared to ar10's, but it's always been reliable.
@@paraglidingnut26 Veprs are very nice I'm a big AK fan. I carry a galil ace in 308 for bear defense and I trust it's reliability more than an ar10 the ace has decent accuracy I was able to get 1.3in groups at 100 yards with a good lpvo and I have taken it out to 600 yards and made hits consistently, a guy in the galil owner's group I am in took his out to 900 yards so that is really impressive for an AK platform. Now the ace is not as accurate as my buddies Daniel Defense ar10 but I trust the reliability of it much more and the gun is still more accurate than I am. I think a scar17 would be an awesome 308 platform it has the reliability of an AK and is easily a 1000 yard gun with the right person behind it (not me) lol.
@@connorl.2170I read about a guy in either Sweden or Norway that was some kinda law enforcement similar to our game wardens I think who killed a polar bear that was charging him with an m16, he shot him 6 times. He said the bear came up on him so fast he didn't even have a chance to shoulder the rifle he pretty much fired from the hip.
Hi. Top bird hunting with a rifle has been successful in Sweden with a fully jacketed 6.5 round nose. Good precision and adequate knock down with a round nose. Since one needs a light weapon after long ski trips after birds, single shot rifles 22 Hornet or 5.6x52 have been popular.
Adding in here that the shots are often taken from distances of 100m+, often 200m+, so 22lr or 22wm would neither be feasible nor 22lr allowed. At least in Sweden
If hunting coyotes is not good, then why do the Fish and Game wildlife biologists allow hunting them without tags all year long? They have been studying them for decades. This lady sounds like an animal rights person more than a biologist.
I think the point she was making is you will leave a void for another coyote to move in. The other thing is the coyotes tend to have larger litters when their territory expands or with more resources. What you have to do is shoot them often to bring the population down. Unfortunately, they will eventually return to their equilibrium population, so you have to keep at it and keep shooting.
My suggestion for a rifle for an Elk and Brown bear on Afognak Island. Is the .35 Whelen loaded with good quality 225gr bullets like Nosler Partitions, Barnes TSX or Swift A frames.
Its well known that predator-prey populations are cyclical with a lag time where predator antecedes prey. Fox pop up, goes to low rabbit pop. Low rabbit pop starves out the foxes. Low fox pop leads to high rabbit pop. And so it repeats. For the Grouse and Capercaillie, 22LR or 22Mag has been used. The birds are easy to stalk and so range is not an issue. They have enough weight to stop them flying but not too much velocity to ruin meat, so body shots are the norm.
PO Ackley Book is the world's best book to this day explaining case powder capacity as related to velocity performance and bore size. I read the covers off this book literally. I have to remind myself that bigger is not always better when it comes to cartridge case capacity and refer to PO Ackley oftentimes.
Everyone seems to immediately talk about Alaska. Well, there are 49 other states, and 39 of them have bears. I personally took at 7’ tall 400lb black bear with a .308. Head shot using Remington corelokt ammo. One shot was all it took.
What was this in? I live in NC and we have some decent sized black bears here, but my wife and I go to visit her friend in Wyoming where they have some big ass bears.
I hunted turkey for years and use a 22mag fmj reliably inside of 75 yards and shot inside 100 without losing one. No meat damage and accurate enough for a head shot if you wanted to.
Taking a coyote is limiting its ability to reproduce, .338 rcm is my pick for elk in bear country/ bear rifle. Sako made a round called the 7×33, labeled a bird round, 98 grain sp or fmj. I like the 6 arc or 204 or 223.
Have to agree, Ruger guide gun (20” barrel) in a McMillan GSR stock so Mag fed, in 338 RCM. Loads are 185gr TTSX at just over 2900fps. Good elk meds and in case mr bear shows up.
Guys trying to get himself hurt shooting bear with a pea shooter like a 308 it’s only gonna piss the bear off be humane and dispatch of him quickly with a 270 winchester be a sportsman and use enough gun
I had a .308 Marlin Express lever action in a 336 action. It came out with the .308 FTX bullet and still does. I sold it many years ago but I still see ammo on the shelves.
@@HobbitHomes263 the 307 came out in 1982 and the 308 Marlin Express came out in 2007 when Hornady developed that LEVERevolution ammo with the Flextip bullet to try and duplicate the 308 Winchester.
The guy that asked about .308 for grizzly. Keep the .308, buy a high capacity pistol, in 10mm. Sig xten, S&W m&p 10mm, my favorite is the springfield xdm elite.
For elk and in grizz country use a 325 wsm or 338 lapua or if ya wanna reload hot loads 35 whelen is a beast i use 338-378 weatherby but i know not everyone has the $for it
There are coyotes in my neighborhood in town, just south of Tampa. I can hear them at night. I've seen a dead one on the side of the road near the main drag during rush hour. My inkaws have seen them on the luxury/Beach islands that are often akin to tourism resorts.
Very comical! With proper shot placement a .308 Winchester will easily drop a Bear 🐻 of any description in its tracks. You are not talking about a pop gun . Just say that you’re wanting a bigger caliber rifle and that’s fine. Enjoy!
For black grouse and capercaillie I’ve used .22 WMR, 6.5 Creedmoor, .308 and .30-06. Here in Finland also .222, .22-250, .223 are also often used. Usually the birds are shot from tree tops. As they can spot the hunter far away, shooting distances are often 150-250 meters. Therefore flat shooting rifle and high bc bullets help. Bullet should be fmj if you want some meat to cook after succesful shot.
Finnish hunters hunt big birds. We mostly use calibers/cartridges that are common here and easy to get. Ron Spomer once called me pragmatic and that is a good word to describe many hunters in Finland. Years and years .308 has been the cartridge to go to. It can handle everything from birds to bears, it has a huge variety of factory ammunition and prices are also reasonable(our market is not huge). In the old days many hunters had only one rifle so it had to fit most(all) game you wanted to hunt. I don´t think that hunting and gun culture differs too much in Nordic countries. I think it is good to think about what kind of rifles are you going to get in future. Are you going for only one rifle to do it all or are you going to get many for different game.
@SuperCamper , hello, we don't have grizzly bears here, but brown brears we have. It is almost the same. Population size is different from place to place, but there are enough that population must be controlled by hunting. We don't have black bears in Northern Europe.
The problem with Pronghorn in the Sonoran Desert in AZ was poaching and its devastating effects in addition to the impact of the regular predator population. The problem in CA with cougars was that about 40 years ago, Fish & Game failed to file an environmental impact report by the deadline and a conservation group was successful in getting cougars placed on the endangered species list. That really screwed things up. It wasn't until people were being attacked on a regular basis in CA that cougars were taken off the list. Then there are extraordinary wildfires due to improper land management.
308 works just fine for bear. 22lr is about all i use for any small game. I dont think i would have ever considered using a center-fire cartridge for bird hunting. But if it works go for it! Its pretty cool hearing from people from all around the world! 👍
i have known of three bears taken on kodiak years ago with a 243, one with a 7x08, one with a 7 mag helped by two 300winmags and an interior griz with a 270 but it seems to me like taking a supercub up against a su35 in ariel combat. at the same time i knew of one on the kenai took 4 shots from a 458 and afriend fired 4 rounds at a bear with his 460 weatherby when the scope went black. there are many good bear rounds so it just depends on what you can shoot reliably
338 win mag I think would be best overall for Black or Grizzly bears. I wished they would make a modern and improved 338 win mag something similar to the 338 lapua but even better developed and affordable.
The 17 Rem is sometimes overlooked. I would try that for grouse. Ammo might be rather hard to come by. Fun round and packs a lot of punch and the rifles I have shot have been really accurate.
I was a 308 detractor for a long time but to be honest it still is a pretty effective cartrige, i still think sniper system should have better range cartrige like .338lap and have 308 for battle rifles or dmr
With the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, it is easy to lapse into criticism of the .308/7.62x51mm NATO cartridge as the choice for military for an alliance like NATO. There are more-efficient choices available, such as cartridges which fire projectiles in the 6.5-7mm (.264-.284-cal.) range. However, if you look at the major powers and what they have used to arm their fighting men since the turn of the 20th century, they have consistently selected cartridges in the .30-.32 caliber range. The British Empire relied upon the .303 for years, which is classed in the .31-caliber range. Germany relied upon 8mm Mauser (7.92x57), which classes in the .32-caliber range. Japan started WWII using 6.5x50, which is a .264-caliber cartridge, but switched midway to 7.7mm, which is of .31-caliber. Italy started and finished with 6.5mm Carcano. France used the 7.5x54mm, which is a .30-caliber & the Swiss used 7.5x55, also a .30-caliber chambering. Russia's 7.62x54R, which is still used today more than 120 years after its introduction, is also in the .30-.31-caliber range. Some smaller nations had more-unique and offbeat choices, such as Sweden using the 6.5x55, but in the main, thirty caliber cartridges were chosen. Many militaries liked the aerodynamic efficiency and modest recoil of 6.5-7mm projectiles when fired from rifles, but preferred heavier projectiles for use in automatic weapons, such as medium and general-purpose machine guns, since the heavier .30-.32-caliber bullets retained momentum better at longer ranges and thereby had better terminal performance. For snipers, until maybe thirty years ago, any shot past a thousand yards was considered quite long, and since most snipers and designated marksmen took their shots inside 800 yards (or meters, as the case may be) the majority of the time, there really wasn't much of a sense of urgency about adopting something more efficient. The .308 may not be the "best" performer inside that range, but it was/is a good one, which was apparently enough for their uses. It is an excellent general-purpose cartridge, which is one reason it has remained in use for nearly seventy years since its introduction in the 1950s. Remember, too, that the senior officers making the choices of cartridges for the NATO alliance at the time, such as the now i(n)famous Colonel Rene Studler, U.S. Army Ordnance Dept., were men born in the late 19th century and who came of age during the era of WWI. A period of time in which thirty-caliber cartridges were the king of the hill.
I went to Alaska on a guided hunt with my cousin's guide company, they used 12ga shotguns. I went out 20 years later they used 12 gauge shotguns and 308, a few used 30-06 or 338 federal.
I have learned that if I kill the boss black bear in my area it’s worse. The smaller males that he kept away would replace him. Often several smaller males. Until one came out as the boss. So now I’ll often wait for a real problem bear but leave the sherif bear. Coyotes are like mice kill them and I rarely notice much change. As for cougars they die it takes a while to see them come around again. Usually find them from kill sites. Last winter was harsh 4ft deep snow. Many predators died and then this year I saw more deer with twins and even triplets. So nature has its own way to handle things.
I think you are right on point. I live in Texas and I can see the change in wildlife habitats being taken away by people. So our entire ecosystem is really being turn over its head. We have to strike a balance some time soon before we loose it all.
Afognak has had several fatal bear/hunter encounters. Some bumping into each other on game trails, which are the easiest routes through that rainforest, others due to the bears wanting what the hunter has brought down. Years ago there was an ADF&G biologist who went into the pucker brush to take out wounded, by others, brown bears. He used a .308 Winchester at close quarters. But then, he might be the exception in the cool customer department. Ranges on Afognak are not long distance shooting. A .338 WM or .375 H&H, with proper bullets, will do nicely for the elk and bear, if you are not over gunned.
A good cool headed shooter is better off than a casual not so good shooter with a big magnum!!! I can practice twice as much or more with my 308 than most magnum guys can unless they reload and built their stock years ago and then they might be equal to me, but not cheaper.
also the ammo choice for me was 180 grain winchester soft points or core locks 180 and 220 none of those were hard enough but I think the aluminum tip 180s for elk we have now for 300 mags and bigger they had solid brass and copper but honestly cause of what the pipe line opporators said Nothing shy of a 50 cal is going to stop the realy big bears
Anything is better than nothing. 30-06, 300 mag all are good. Or just jump up to 458 Lotts. But a 338 is a great caliber. I only have experience with the Win, RUM and 340 Wby. I hear good things about the 338-06 which is just a slimmed down 35 Whelan.
Back in the 70s I took my ALaskan Brown Bear with a 30-06 with the Remington 220 grain round nose Core-Lokt. one shot nust nicked the bottom of his heart and destroyed his lungs
Control the predators and remember people are more important than animals. Animals are important but not at the detriment of oil exploration and farming.
Eric, on a personal level I agree my people are more important than animals, but I'm willing to bet a world filled with people and no animals would not work. Important as oil is for energy, it doesn't eat well. I, for one, do not want to live on a planet in which there are humans, oil wells, and farm fields -- even if that would be sustainable.
Thanks for your response Ron. I believe you are sincere and a great person. I believe there is a balance but we may or may not agree on the balancing point. Nevertheless, you amaze me with all you do on your show and I hope you keep up the great work.
The 308 Marlin Express is loaded with a 160gr FTX (flex-tip) bullet that is constructed to not open as quickly as the same weight bullet used in 30/30 ammo of the same type. The problem is the case is truly unique, being loosely based on the 220 Swift. To further confuse the issue, the 338 Marlin Express is built on yet another case, the 376 Steyr, so despite the very similar naming of these two cartridges, their cases are not at all the same.
I grew up on kodiak island alaska,my dad opened the airport in 1967,park muncy was the #1 guide for hunters out of state,my dad hunted with him and got kodiak brown bears,elk,deer etc,but we always had airplanes so went to the mainland for moose ,mountain goat and reindeer,I used a 30-06 while dad prefer his 7mm.At 10 that 30-06 kicked my butt lol.Shot alot of deer with 30-30 mostly,even got stationed on Kodiak 2 times in the Coast Guard,havent been back since 1990,great hunting.
Coyote have varmint status in my area (Western Pa.) because they tend to overpopulate near farming operations and around suburbs, taking farm animals and pets. We have no choice but to regulate their numbers. I'll admit though, I have only seen three or four in 30 years at my location.
I’ve shot 7 in the last 10 years, just in chance encounters , the last was a couple weeks ago with 3 kenneled dogs barking their heads off. 50 yards just getting daylight with a 22 .
I'm a Idaho resident and I use a 22lr or my 22mag most the time the Grouse are 10ft right off the trail but sometimes they're 25 to 30 yards but I try to stick with the head shots
@Paul I agree, 338 win mag has been around and nobody can argue its effectiveness. The advantage of the rpm only comes out if you’re after a lighter, compact package.
Actually, it’s the imbalance that farmers, homeowners & business men inject into the environment that is the real problems. The government is just trying to undo what you did. Just heavily tax all the changes that cause habitat loss & fragmentation & you’ll gradually eliminate the problem. When people can’t afford current land use patterns, they will change.
I live in an area where my forefathers exterminated the wolves. I'm thankful that I've never had to worry about being attacked by a pack of wolves. Actually there's not any predators around that would constitute a threat really. There's coyotes, black bears, and occasionally a cougar is spotted but the odds of being attacked by a wild predator are so small that it's not even a consideration. My friends next door neighbor was attacked by a red tailed hawk. It clawed her head repeatedly and she needed quite a few stitches. Apparently it's illegal to kill a hawk after the fact but it's okay to kill one in self defense if you're being attacked. So I tried to get the bird to attack me. The bird wasn't stupid and it knew better than to mess with me. I tried to make myself less intimidating by hiding my tennis racquet and doing my best impersonation of a little old lady. Still the bird knew better. It would fly towards me when I'd turn my back but it's instincts wouldn't allow it to get within tennis racket striking distance. I don't have any grudges towards hawks but I just figured that this was a once in a lifetime opportunity to be attacked by a hawk and fight it one on one with a tennis racket.
@@andysharlofsky627 You live with a wolf or a wolf lives with you? Friendly wolves aren't any problem. The ones that will kill you and eat you are the ones that are a problem. If your wolf isn't trying to kill you then I'd want my money back. You've got a defective wolf.
For bear protection a 308 still beats a handgun
Forsure... its funny when people say you need a 44 mag or a 480 ruger or even a 50 smith but then say a 308 is not enough 😂
@@sparky_-mf2cs they obviously cant do the math
Especially a HIGH CAPACITY .308
@@sparky_-mf2cs I've always made a funny face when trying to figure that out as well
@@sparky_-mf2cs well I'd take a 10MM Glock with a 13rd mag over a bolt action .308 any day for a charging grizz. A semi-auto high capacity .308 is a different story. Most recommend handguns over a rifle because they are hikers and the weight of a rifle is too cumbersome. Saying a pistol caliber is enough and a .308 is not in general is very stupid but I can't say I've ever heard anyone say that.
Here in Sweden we shoot big brown bears with 308 Win. No problem with for example with Norma 180 grains Oyrx or Alaska. Also with 30-06 and 6,5x55.
My first rifle was a Carl Gustav sporterized carbine 96 Mauser. I took it's penetration capabilities for granted until I shot a few deer with a 30-06. 156 grain Norma round nose soft point (the old stuff with a cupronickel jacket) would shoot through any deer at any angle and deep into (sometimes through) the tree behind it.
yes, everthing between 6,5x55 and 9,3x62 is more or less good. i would prefer 8x57is
The .308 is terrible for bears. It just tears them up and kills them. What is good for bears is lots of wild lands, honey, bug-rich rotten stumps, skunk cabbage, mild winters, warm sunshine, careful drivers, salmon, and lots of careless campers who leave their food out.
whats good for bears is a hiker without a .308
I'm 74 and have lived and hunted in Northern Michigan
Most of my adult life. I remember when the go to
Caliber was the 30-30 .
Lots of black bear fell to the
Old time favorite.
Best explanation why predator hunting makes sense ever. Applies also for Germany, where the general public does not understand why predetor hunting is a good thing for nature. Thank you for the video.
Alot of people don't know that the rifles that homesteaded Alaska and have killed more Grizzly than any others are the Enfield in 303 Brit, the Krag in 30-40 and the 03A3 in '06. The rifles and cartridges may still hold the record so a modern .308 technically can take even the largest Browns.
308 will easily kill anything on the continent, wouldn’t be my choice for an expensive hunt traveling across the country but if elk or grizzly were local id have no issue using it. If I’ve got 10 grand into the hunt I’ll be bringing a bigger rifle just for the increased range to maximize the chance of filling that expensive tag.
The problem is people think they need the same, super tough, super deep penetrating bullets that are used on other “dangerous game”. So grandpappy shoots a bear with a 30-06 loaded with a bullet designed for buffalo, gets poor results, and blames the 30-06 instead of the bullet. Tells his son horror stories about using 30-06 on bears, so his son takes a 300 win mag loaded with the same, overly hard dg bullet, gets poor results, and now here we are, a generation of people thinking bears require copper solids being pushed by Weatherby magnums, and anyone using .308 is nuts.
Truth is, .308 with a nosler partition, or a winchester ballistic silver tip will pulverize a bears vital organs.
@@fnkdtnk My AK interior griz fell to two 180-gr. Barnes TSX bullets. The first penetrated the heart and off ran the bear. The second hit the spine and killed him instantly. I found that one in the snowbank beyond the bear. Slug weighed 180-grains. Cartridge was Bordens 300 Caribou, an improved 300 Win Mag.
Yes and there’s some Indians that’s crawled into the den and shot them on the 22 pistol I don’t care too and as far as 308 I consider the bear has to eat too so get after it
@@jaydunbar7538 keep in mind I mean the .308 for DEFENSE against a sudden grizzly attack. In semi auto rifle.
For a hunt certainly I would use a heavier caliber in a bolt action, as long as I am not alone, and am accompanied by at least 1 more adequately armed person whom I trust.
I say "trust" because rangers report that in most instances when there is a party of only 2 and 1 gets attacked by a grizz, the other person RUNS AWAY ! Surprising, but in most cases, that's what happens !
bullet placement is EVERYTHING
The mountain men killed grizzly with flintlock mountain rifles, I expect a .308 WIN would get the job done.
As the mountain men, always carry a big knife with whatever rifle you have.
Wouldn’t think twice about .308 for bear..
I had zero issue killing elk with .308 at 400 yards. Taken moose with .270 as well.
I think people worry to much about having a big rifle, personally I prefer a bigger cartridge for expensive hunts I’m traveling for but if it’s a local hunt and you can wait for a good shot then it’s just not an issue.
You are spot on Ron. It’s up to us to be good stewards of the land and animals.
That's what we used in the Navy in the 1980s for polar bear defence. M-14 w m80
Is 308 good enough for bears? I dunno shoot one, if you live to say yes there's your answer lol
Ron, you are spot on with prey predator relationships.
It may not be the most affordable way, but a 45-70 is the sexiest way to take a bear just saying
The 45-70 govt is one effective way to take down even the biggest bear inside 150 yards. The 500 grain bullet from buffalo bore is devestating.
I have no experience myself but here in Finland popular cartridges for all kinds of rifle bird hunting are 222, 223, 243, 6,5x55, 6,5 creedmoor and 308, but i have even heard of guys shooting black grouse with 9,3x62. With a fmj bullet it seems to make no difference what cartridge you use.
Also 22lr is legally too small for black grouse here, the minimum seems to be 22magnum or 22hornet depending on the load.
I shot a ruffed grouse with a 375 hh once. Took its head off and no meat damage.
Chiming in as a Swede here, it's allowed to hunt Ptarmigans and Hazel Grouse, however Black Grouse and Capercaille is considered needing more performance. So that's the 22 Hornady, 22WM and up. And just like you say Eero, it's very much a wide variety what caliber is used. Expanding bullets are not required, and often not wanted, because of the meat-destroying effect.
What is popular around here is late early winter and throughout parts of winter is skiing through the woods, seeing Capercaille or Black Grouse perching on top of pine and fir trees, trying to get close enough for a shot, but shots are often taken from 200m+, so 22lr or 22wm wouldn't be my choice of calibre any way.
Well he seemed confident hunting in grizz woods when he hunted all his other game why change now? A 308 with a good penetrating bullett under 300yds will do the job, if he puts it in the right spot.
Well sounds like he's going on a destination hunt to an area with a high density of large coastal brown bears. And him saying he's used to hunting caribou and sheep I'm guessing he's more used to hunting the interior with lower numbers of the smaller inland grizzlies. Up until the 1970s coastal brown bears and inland grizzlies were considered separate species because of the difference in size and behavior, and still today many alaskans distinguish between 'brown bear' and 'grizzly'. My guess is he's intimidated by the reputation of the coastal browns, and that isn't unwise
@@christopherrowley7506 better have to much power and not need it than to need it and not have it tis why i use 338-378weatherby or 378 weatherby 🙂
Longtrailside, how dare you apply logic and reason on the internet?!?! Everybody knows that a big brown bear can only be taken with a 50 BMG (minimum), better with a 30mm cannon.
Actually it sounds like he has opinions. As good as a 308 can be, if he has bigger, that he is comfortable with, why not give it a whirl. A 180gr or 200gr bullet in a 308 will do a browny, under ideal conditions. But what about under less than ideal conditions?
Have a great day and please stop using common sense, logic and reason. 🙂🙂
@@jk-kr8jt There used to be an oooooold youtube video of a hunter with 3 friends hunting 1 guy filming brown bear in alaska. One took a shot at a grizz from a good distance. The bear immediately started to charge at the hunters full bore. They all opened fired at the bear and hit the bear multiple times over and over again, reloading with large caliber rifles. The bear finally collapsed feet from where the hunters stood. That video taught me 2 serious lessons. Shot placement for a charging bear is the brain or upper spine to stop a charging bear. And the second lesson is magnum calibers dont mean shit to a pissed off charging grizzly, unless you packing a full auto 50bmg. Ive seen videos of them killed with simple recurve bows, 308, 300wm, 375 hh, ect, practically dropped on the spot. They are not hard to kill generally, buuuuut if its a bear with a will to live or a pissed off bear that wants to fight, and you shoot it. Juat be prepared for it to fight back. Seen similair with black bear also, but nothing ever like ive seen in that video! It was unreal...!
It would be best to hold the range to under 100 yds for both bullet placement and retained energy. Most guides don't like hunters taking long shots on dangerous game.
I don't care what i am hunting. If I see a coyote it is turning into a coyote hunt.
I used a 338 win mag with 225 grain tsx bullets to take my brown bear on the Alaska Peninsula. 9'3" bear.
Can't beat the TSX
Please let us know how your .375 H&H with the HammerHunter performs. Thanks Ron!
For the birds use a 308win with lapua 123gr fmj. Smal hole in and out. No meat damage and they die fast. And aim at the white spot
How far out are the birds usually?
@@danbowen5106They sit in trees that have a good overview on open areas in the morning. You can get to about 300m before they fly away if they see you.
Oh please, use a 35 Whelen, a medium caliber size. It simply works !!!!!!
325 WSM for bears, compact rifle firing a powerful cartridge.
Say what you will. 308win and 338win are probably some of the best cartridges for game in the north. If i had to recommend any cartridges it would be those 2. But if only 1 it would be 308.
Oh yes you quite right.😊
Humans screw up everything.
+ .308 is ubiquitous, never have to wrry about runnig out on ammo
Regarding coyotes its important to point out that they were not trully a wood species. The woods were the domain of the wolves(well all the american continent to be fair) and the coyotes remained in the savanas, the plains, etc. But now that we have devasted wolves population AND we cut down most forests to live there or to farm the land, we have artificially created the perfect habitat for coyotes.
They also use our forest roads system here in Quebec to travel great distance and find new farm fields to live nearby. They have really benefited presence.
Good information man
The best way to reduce coyote (aka Prairie Wolf) numbers is by introducing wolves
We have wolf/coyote mixes. The 75/25 are long legged wolves western great lakes making them bigger. The 60/40 wolves of eastern great lakes have a lot of coyote looks to them. More red in the fur.
nobody ever did a genetic test on an pre-colonial Eastern red wolf. Canines have been in the Americas, from FL to AK including the forest, throughout all of recorded history, except for places where theyve been eradicated by man.
Well, if I remember my human history, I think early humans used to kill cave bears with spears, and more recently, American Native tribes with spears, and bows/arrows did in some more modern bears on this Continent. No doubt a number of other races/cultures elsewhere have done similarly, soooo, I suspect it IS possible to take out a bear with a .308 ;) LOL.
However, For Myself, back in the distant past when I frequented areas where BIG bears ("Brownies) hung out, I used to carry either a short barrelled 12 Gauge full of heavy slugs, or one of my .375's , depending on whether I was river/lake fishing, or hunting...(course I'm a chicken:)(btw, felt recoil was actually a little LESS with the .375's LOL)
When I lived in Montana, I elk hunted in grizzly country. Always with a 338. Never had a problem, but I was prepared none the less. I did take a brown bear 10’6”. Probably a thousand pounds. 338 was enough gun. I would have felt better with a 375.
Close range/brush, the .45-70 cures all ails. Not too fancy, not too sophisticated, but by golly she gets it done.
Even a 500 grain lead bullet with 70 grains of black powder will blow a hole straight thru the biggest North American buffalo. It will do the same on the biggest bears.
OR... get a 450bushy in an AR15 and have fancy AND sophisticated all at the same time along with 45-70 like ballistics...
@@brucepk631 I indeed have that very setup...also have a .458 SOCOM upper as well, but the .450 and .458 are very similar in ballistics and the SOCOM ammo is damned hard to find.
@@blueduck9409I'mjkj h fdui
First and only bear I've shot was a 400# black bear with a 308 win. 180 grain, thru 1 shoulder, lung, heart, lung, broke other shoulder. It moved 5 yards only because it was on a slope and rolled.
Why doesn't anybody talk about the 300 rum they're the best all-around rifle in the book kill anything on Earth doesn't collapse your lungs when you shoot it faster and more powerful than a 7 mm Magnum shoots almost as far as the 338 Lapua and nobody talks about the 300 ultra mag
After seeing my test results from 308 and 30-06 with a 168 grain TSX, I can't imagine anything could survive it. That being said, I hunt whitetails in Michigan 😆. A few of the guys if talked to that have hunted Alaska say that the 300WSM with either a nosler partition in 180gr+ or Barnes TSX in 180gr is the bread and butter up there. I definitely agree with the choice of 338 win mag for and overall rifle. Abundance of ammo for it there.
For capercaillie I'd advise for using a 22 Hornet or WM or a 17 HMR. If one uses a too fast and powerful caliber the exit hole is a real challenge for any taxidermist. Same goes for bullets that fracture into small parts.
Old hunters sometimes used FMJ .222Win, though that needs a very accurate shot, as it will punch a straight hole without expansion, which risks long searches for the shot animal.
This comment put a smile on my face. I almost forgot about the old 222. Good stuff man god bless.
my friend in Finland use 6.5x55 with 140gr fmj bullet and achive good result on capercallie.
Just went hunting in Ontario and she shot her bear with a 308 at 35 to 40 yards no exit wound but tore up everything inside bear was full of blood
When I lived in Alaska my choices were 35 Whelen 338 win and 45-70. When out fishing it was a 12ga pump
I carry a 12 gauge at work (land surveying) because a rifle seems to offend clients. Even with slugs a shotgun doesn’t measure up to a .308, especially a 10 shot “scout rifle”
@@danhiggins5393 depending on the exact load, a 3in slug has about 15-20% more energy at the muzzle than a 308
@@briant7652 I don't know if we have enough statistics to definitely say that "rifles are typically better for large bears". I've only seen one study going over all historic bear attacks where firearms were used for self defense, and every bear that was hit by any bullet at all stopped its attack. The most common used was 9mm. Now I wouldn't trust a 9mm personally. My point is the data set is small so it's definitely a debatable topic. I'm sure 308 does well, and probably has a lot better penetration. 20% more energy in a slug can't be a negative though, and you're less likely to get a pass through (so all of that energy is dumped in target). I think the reasoning goes both ways
@@briant7652 you didn't engage with what I said at all. I, like the guide, also suspect rifles penetrate better. But then the other reasoning is that if you get a pass through, and you didn't hit a vital organ, then that icepick wound cavity may be useless. Even a bear shot through the lungs or heart would still have enough time to close distance before expiring. The 12ga slug would be unlikely to have that problem.
But then what I was saying before: this is all academic because we don't have enough information. And the main study we do have suggests it doesn't really matter what you use, as long as you are able to get shots on target.
The best advice I was told years ago. When it comes to bears. and no matter what you have. Keep shooting until it goes down. I have seen a bear outrun a squirrel, and the squirrel had a ten yard head start. Also witnessed a good friend of mine get mauled, so I have a lot of respect for bears.
Given the right distance and shot placement, a 308 winchester will kill just about anything in North America! It's my favorite round of all time, as I find it personally more versatile where I live then any other caliber. And I only like it slightly more than the 30-06 because of its more mild recoil! But overall, if I was hunting a Grizzly Bear, I'm taking something like a 30-06 or bigger!
.308 WILL kill anything in North America with ease.
Maybe a 30-06 Ackley improved?
.308 is fine for grizzly just use a 180 gr cartridge
@@BaconSlayer69 nosler partitions handloaded to at least 2600fps in your 308!!!
@@Wildwestwrangler I don’t care you replied too late
Ron I would like to hear your opinion on the introduction of wolves in Colorado. I am very opposed , I feel like it may not be a issue if we had the abundance of game during the time of the big herds of Bison two century's ago . Colorado in the last couple of Decades . Deer and Elk especially Mule deer have been on the decline . I'm Not ready to except this notion we need wolves .
I voted no. I listened to the ranchers and their concerns.
.308 gets alot of hate with the right bullet I wouldn't feel under gunned bullet like barens ttsx or prolly even a good bonded soft point Ron and his love for the .308 lol just kidding good videos Ron love watching
Correct
And Nosler Partitions or Swift A Frame. They go deep!
I’m not saying it’s the best but Iike what was said before with the right bullet and a good accurate shot I think the 308 would kill anything. Ive heard stories about elephant poachers using far smaller rounds to down them for they’ve ivory so yeah I’d shoot a grizzly with a 308
I think the first two say about what I was thinking. Not my 1st choice for big ones but I'd feel pretty good about having a .308 if I ran into one unexpectedly. Anything much smaller and you might want to shoot to miss.
Dead is dead. Never shoot to miss. 223 to 500 A-square are all better than getting chewed on.
@@jk-kr8jt If your about to get chewed on sure, if it's pretty calm you can sometimes scare them away by shooting. But do what you want of course. shrugs
@@jk-kr8jt WORD!
Well if a brown bear is charging you at close range, you better have that .308 in a semi-auto and try to get at least 2 or 3 hits, or you will face the unpleasant experience of being EATEN ALIVE.
@@sman3569 Lol, I'll keep it in mind.
I live in MT near the northern continental divide (largest pop. of grizzlies in lower 48). 308 is my preferred hunting/bear protection. Granted its an ar10. I cant think of anything better than semi auto 308 with rifle accuracy for bear protection.
Rather than the Marlin express you can just get a Savage 99 in 308, 300 Savage, or 7mm-08. Rotary magazine, but still an excellent and superbly accurate rifle.
Yeah sure. Theres a lot of savage 99's laying around. I'll just go pick one up at my LGS. In my 44 years on this planet I have only seen 2. Good luck.
@@mattdg1981 I guess I’ve been fortunate? I encounter them regularly in TX. They made well over 1M of them.
I never saw a Savage 99 in 7-08 ?
@@tims.5995 They didn’t make that many and they’re kind of expensive when you find them. The .300 Savage and 308 Winchester were way more common. But they also made them in 243, 30-30, and 7mm-08 and others.
The Savage 99C model in .308 WIN uses a detachable box magazine--carry an extra one when hunting just in case!
Ron, I really enjoy these Q&A videos. I play a bit of a game with them. I listen to the question, hit pause and answer it myself. Then I hit play (or whatever it's call on these darn smartphones) and listen to your answer. You're from South Dakota (originally) and I'm from Illinois, but I swear we must be related. Keep 'em coming.
I think, could be wrong, the twisted tubular magazine you're thinking of is the old Remington pump. Might be the model 14. It was the home of the 25, 30, 32 and 35 Remington line of cartridges. Sadly only the 35 Rem soldiers on in the Marlin levers. There may have been other twist tubular magazine rifles, but that the one that came to mind first.
Please let us know how you like the 270 gr in your 375. I like the 375 and never had a problem with 300 gr pills. That served me fell and has accounted for hundreds of animals. Just my experience. A couple of years ago I did use a friend's 375 with 270 gr cor-loktd Remington ammo to take several elands, kudus, zebras and giraffes, those old cup and core preformed fine.
All the best to you Ron.
Cheers, Jeff.
From somebody that grew up on the Alaska Peninsula with lots of brown bears. I have no problem with carrying a .308 as a defensive weapon for a brown bear.
If I was specifically hunting them I wouldn’t plan to go less than .338 caliber rifle. (There are exceptions)
I’ve heard of some people carrying A.R. 15‘s with green tips for defense from large animals?
@@dangerousfreedom4965 for defense only you can put down a brown bear with it due to sheer number of bullets on target. With a 30 round standard capacity magazine with 556 the rifle will penetrate a brown bear, but it won’t put it down in 1 or 2 shots, which would be preferred if hunting, as less bullets means less wasted meat and a better skin, and a more clean kill overall. Purely for defense it will do the job but isn’t the best for hunting
AR-15 vs AR-10 for defense id choose the ar-10 though, because it has all the same benefits as an ar-15 (semi auto and larger ammunition capacity than a bolt action) but with the larger caliber. 20 rounds of 7.62 nato will kill most all large game in North America
@@connorl.2170 Be sure that ar10 platform is reliable. Have seen my share of ar10's in action shooting events having reloading issues. My Vepr
.308 in an AK platform hasn't been as accurate at distance compared to ar10's, but it's always been reliable.
@@paraglidingnut26 Veprs are very nice I'm a big AK fan. I carry a galil ace in 308 for bear defense and I trust it's reliability more than an ar10 the ace has decent accuracy I was able to get 1.3in groups at 100 yards with a good lpvo and I have taken it out to 600 yards and made hits consistently, a guy in the galil owner's group I am in took his out to 900 yards so that is really impressive for an AK platform. Now the ace is not as accurate as my buddies Daniel Defense ar10 but I trust the reliability of it much more and the gun is still more accurate than I am. I think a scar17 would be an awesome 308 platform it has the reliability of an AK and is easily a 1000 yard gun with the right person behind it (not me) lol.
@@connorl.2170I read about a guy in either Sweden or Norway that was some kinda law enforcement similar to our game wardens I think who killed a polar bear that was charging him with an m16, he shot him 6 times. He said the bear came up on him so fast he didn't even have a chance to shoulder the rifle he pretty much fired from the hip.
Hi. Top bird hunting with a rifle has been successful in Sweden with a fully jacketed 6.5 round nose. Good precision and adequate knock down with a round nose. Since one needs a light weapon after long ski trips after birds, single shot rifles 22 Hornet or 5.6x52 have been popular.
Adding in here that the shots are often taken from distances of 100m+, often 200m+, so 22lr or 22wm would neither be feasible nor 22lr allowed. At least in Sweden
If hunting coyotes is not good, then why do the Fish and Game wildlife biologists allow hunting them without tags all year long? They have been studying them for decades. This lady sounds like an animal rights person more than a biologist.
I think the point she was making is you will leave a void for another coyote to move in. The other thing is the coyotes tend to have larger litters when their territory expands or with more resources. What you have to do is shoot them often to bring the population down. Unfortunately, they will eventually return to their equilibrium population, so you have to keep at it and keep shooting.
My suggestion for a rifle for an Elk and Brown bear on Afognak Island. Is the .35 Whelen loaded with good quality 225gr bullets like Nosler Partitions, Barnes TSX or Swift A frames.
No
How about a 338-06 ?
@@billfrederickfrederick2791 That's an excellent choice also.
Yeah, if your a hand loader. Good luck trying to find .35 Whelen factory ammo👌
22 Hornet is a great oldy. Takes over from the 22RF and is still quiet. Cheers
Thank you Ron for another informative Q&A. Best wishes for a great week.
Its well known that predator-prey populations are cyclical with a lag time where predator antecedes prey. Fox pop up, goes to low rabbit pop. Low rabbit pop starves out the foxes. Low fox pop leads to high rabbit pop. And so it repeats.
For the Grouse and Capercaillie, 22LR or 22Mag has been used. The birds are easy to stalk and so range is not an issue. They have enough weight to stop them flying but not too much velocity to ruin meat, so body shots are the norm.
I will stick to my tried and true 45/70 for bear.
The 17 HMR would work out well on grouse with head shot’s out to 150 maybe 200 yards.
PO Ackley Book is the world's best book to this day explaining case powder capacity as related to velocity performance and bore size. I read the covers off this book literally. I have to remind myself that bigger is not always better when it comes to cartridge case capacity and refer to PO Ackley oftentimes.
Everyone seems to immediately talk about Alaska. Well, there are 49 other states, and 39 of them have bears. I personally took at 7’ tall 400lb black bear with a .308. Head shot using Remington corelokt ammo. One shot was all it took.
What was this in? I live in NC and we have some decent sized black bears here, but my wife and I go to visit her friend in Wyoming where they have some big ass bears.
@@heatheruntz5315 Northern California!
I love my Ruger#1 in 375 ruger, I shoot hornady 300 grain DGX.
I hunted turkey for years and use a 22mag fmj reliably inside of 75 yards and shot inside 100 without losing one. No meat damage and accurate enough for a head shot if you wanted to.
In my state by law we are only allowed to use a shotgun or crossbow or bow or muzzleloader for turkey.
Taking a coyote is limiting its ability to reproduce, .338 rcm is my pick for elk in bear country/ bear rifle. Sako made a round called the 7×33, labeled a bird round, 98 grain sp or fmj. I like the 6 arc or 204 or 223.
Have to agree, Ruger guide gun (20” barrel) in a McMillan GSR stock so Mag fed, in 338 RCM. Loads are 185gr TTSX at just over 2900fps. Good elk meds and in case mr bear shows up.
Guys trying to get himself hurt shooting bear with a pea shooter like a 308 it’s only gonna piss the bear off be humane and dispatch of him quickly with a 270 winchester be a sportsman and use enough gun
I had a .308 Marlin Express lever action in a 336 action. It came out with the .308 FTX bullet and still does. I sold it many years ago but I still see ammo on the shelves.
307?
@@HobbitHomes263 the 307 came out in 1982 and the 308 Marlin Express came out in 2007 when Hornady developed that LEVERevolution ammo with the Flextip bullet to try and duplicate the 308 Winchester.
The guy that asked about .308 for grizzly.
Keep the .308, buy a high capacity pistol, in 10mm.
Sig xten, S&W m&p 10mm, my favorite is the springfield xdm elite.
10mm is weak. .454 Casull, .460 Magnum, and .500 Magnum aren't.
What do you think of the 35 whelen for grizzly/brown bear?
I think bears should use the .308 on humans, they have the same right to be here as humans!!!!! Leave them alone !!!!!!!!!!!!
For elk and in grizz country use a 325 wsm or 338 lapua or if ya wanna reload hot loads 35 whelen is a beast i use 338-378 weatherby but i know not everyone has the $for it
There are coyotes in my neighborhood in town, just south of Tampa. I can hear them at night.
I've seen a dead one on the side of the road near the main drag during rush hour.
My inkaws have seen them on the luxury/Beach islands that are often akin to tourism resorts.
Very comical! With proper shot placement a .308 Winchester will easily drop a Bear 🐻 of any description in its tracks. You are not talking about a pop gun . Just say that you’re wanting a bigger caliber rifle and that’s fine. Enjoy!
Alaskan ballistics chuks Outdoors they live in Alaska they recommend a 45-70 for Grizzly and brown bear
Coyotes can pound sand. They don't belong over here in the east. The game commission trades pa turkey for them.
ruger m77 guide gun in 338 win mag would work great on bears. 9.3x62 would also work great.
For black grouse and capercaillie I’ve used .22 WMR, 6.5 Creedmoor, .308 and .30-06. Here in Finland also .222, .22-250, .223 are also often used. Usually the birds are shot from tree tops. As they can spot the hunter far away, shooting distances are often 150-250 meters. Therefore flat shooting rifle and high bc bullets help. Bullet should be fmj if you want some meat to cook after succesful shot.
Finnish hunters hunt big birds. We mostly use calibers/cartridges that are common here and easy to get. Ron Spomer once called me pragmatic and that is a good word to describe many hunters in Finland. Years and years .308 has been the cartridge to go to. It can handle everything from birds to bears, it has a huge variety of factory ammunition and prices are also reasonable(our market is not huge). In the old days many hunters had only one rifle so it had to fit most(all) game you wanted to hunt. I don´t think that hunting and gun culture differs too much in Nordic countries. I think it is good to think about what kind of rifles are you going to get in future. Are you going for only one rifle to do it all or are you going to get many for different game.
@@lassevatto7164are there a lot of grizzly in Finland? Do you have black bears?
@SuperCamper , hello, we don't have grizzly bears here, but brown brears we have. It is almost the same. Population size is different from place to place, but there are enough that population must be controlled by hunting. We don't have black bears in Northern Europe.
For Black Bears, sure. I would want more horsepower for the bigger cousins.
A Family member of mine exclusively uses .308 and has took many black bears some from 400+ yards
The problem with Pronghorn in the Sonoran Desert in AZ was poaching and its devastating effects in addition to the impact of the regular predator population. The problem in CA with cougars was that about 40 years ago, Fish & Game failed to file an environmental impact report by the deadline and a conservation group was successful in getting cougars placed on the endangered species list. That really screwed things up. It wasn't until people were being attacked on a regular basis in CA that cougars were taken off the list. Then there are extraordinary wildfires due to improper land management.
Finally, someone with a brain. Mis-
management in CA forests is the real reasom for their continued forest fires.
308 works just fine for bear. 22lr is about all i use for any small game. I dont think i would have ever considered using a center-fire cartridge for bird hunting. But if it works go for it! Its pretty cool hearing from people from all around the world! 👍
i have known of three bears taken on kodiak years ago with a 243, one with a 7x08, one with a 7 mag helped by two 300winmags and an interior griz with a 270 but it seems to me like taking a supercub up against a su35 in ariel combat. at the same time i knew of one on the kenai took 4 shots from a 458 and afriend fired 4 rounds at a bear with his 460 weatherby when the scope went black. there are many good bear rounds so it just depends on what you can shoot reliably
338 win mag I think would be best overall for Black or Grizzly bears. I wished they would make a modern and improved 338 win mag something similar to the 338 lapua but even better developed and affordable.
The 17 Rem is sometimes overlooked. I would try that for grouse. Ammo might be rather hard to come by. Fun round and packs a lot of punch and the rifles I have shot have been really accurate.
Love your thunderbird. Wore that on my shoulder in the 70s.
No,no,no, little silver bells 🔔 & bear spray is all you really need. I saw it on U TUBE
Wait. You mean if I shoot a coyote, I'll get to shoot another one later? Ok. I'm good with that.
I was a 308 detractor for a long time but to be honest it still is a pretty effective cartrige, i still think sniper system should have better range cartrige like .338lap and have 308 for battle rifles or dmr
With the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, it is easy to lapse into criticism of the .308/7.62x51mm NATO cartridge as the choice for military for an alliance like NATO. There are more-efficient choices available, such as cartridges which fire projectiles in the 6.5-7mm (.264-.284-cal.) range. However, if you look at the major powers and what they have used to arm their fighting men since the turn of the 20th century, they have consistently selected cartridges in the .30-.32 caliber range.
The British Empire relied upon the .303 for years, which is classed in the .31-caliber range. Germany relied upon 8mm Mauser (7.92x57), which classes in the .32-caliber range. Japan started WWII using 6.5x50, which is a .264-caliber cartridge, but switched midway to 7.7mm, which is of .31-caliber. Italy started and finished with 6.5mm Carcano. France used the 7.5x54mm, which is a .30-caliber & the Swiss used 7.5x55, also a .30-caliber chambering.
Russia's 7.62x54R, which is still used today more than 120 years after its introduction, is also in the .30-.31-caliber range.
Some smaller nations had more-unique and offbeat choices, such as Sweden using the 6.5x55, but in the main, thirty caliber cartridges were chosen. Many militaries liked the aerodynamic efficiency and modest recoil of 6.5-7mm projectiles when fired from rifles, but preferred heavier projectiles for use in automatic weapons, such as medium and general-purpose machine guns, since the heavier .30-.32-caliber bullets retained momentum better at longer ranges and thereby had better terminal performance.
For snipers, until maybe thirty years ago, any shot past a thousand yards was considered quite long, and since most snipers and designated marksmen took their shots inside 800 yards (or meters, as the case may be) the majority of the time, there really wasn't much of a sense of urgency about adopting something more efficient. The .308 may not be the "best" performer inside that range, but it was/is a good one, which was apparently enough for their uses. It is an excellent general-purpose cartridge, which is one reason it has remained in use for nearly seventy years since its introduction in the 1950s.
Remember, too, that the senior officers making the choices of cartridges for the NATO alliance at the time, such as the now i(n)famous Colonel Rene Studler, U.S. Army Ordnance Dept., were men born in the late 19th century and who came of age during the era of WWI. A period of time in which thirty-caliber cartridges were the king of the hill.
I went to Alaska on a guided hunt with my cousin's guide company, they used 12ga shotguns. I went out 20 years later they used 12 gauge shotguns and 308, a few used 30-06 or 338 federal.
12 gauge is so underrated. A slug hits like a dump truck…
338 Federal needs much more use
I have learned that if I kill the boss black bear in my area it’s worse. The smaller males that he kept away would replace him. Often several smaller males. Until one came out as the boss. So now I’ll often wait for a real problem bear but leave the sherif bear. Coyotes are like mice kill them and I rarely notice much change. As for cougars they die it takes a while to see them come around again. Usually find them from kill sites. Last winter was harsh 4ft deep snow. Many predators died and then this year I saw more deer with twins and even triplets. So nature has its own way to handle things.
I think you are right on point. I live in Texas and I can see the change in wildlife habitats being taken away by people. So our entire ecosystem is really being turn over its head. We have to strike a balance some time soon before we loose it all.
Afognak has had several fatal bear/hunter encounters. Some bumping into each other on game trails, which are the easiest routes through that rainforest, others due to the bears wanting what the hunter has brought down. Years ago there was an ADF&G biologist who went into the pucker brush to take out wounded, by others, brown bears. He used a .308 Winchester at close quarters. But then, he might be the exception in the cool customer department. Ranges on Afognak are not long distance shooting. A .338 WM or .375 H&H, with proper bullets, will do nicely for the elk and bear, if you are not over gunned.
A good cool headed shooter is better off than a casual not so good shooter with a big magnum!!! I can practice twice as much or more with my 308 than most magnum guys can unless they reload and built their stock years ago and then they might be equal to me, but not cheaper.
also the ammo choice for me was 180 grain winchester soft points
or core locks 180 and 220
none of those were hard enough but I think the aluminum tip 180s for elk we have now
for 300 mags and bigger they had solid brass and copper
but honestly cause of what the pipe line opporators said
Nothing shy of a 50 cal is going to stop the realy big bears
Does an M240 count🤔
YES.
Black bears, yes. Grizzly bears, maybe, if you're hunting them. Anything under. 338 is not going to stop a charge.
Depends where you hit them.
Anything is better than nothing. 30-06, 300 mag all are good. Or just jump up to 458 Lotts. But a 338 is a great caliber. I only have experience with the Win, RUM and 340 Wby. I hear good things about the 338-06 which is just a slimmed down 35 Whelan.
Back in the 70s I took my ALaskan Brown Bear with a 30-06 with the Remington 220 grain round nose Core-Lokt. one shot nust nicked the bottom of his heart and destroyed his lungs
good old versatile Springfield
The conservation information is excellent. I realized some of my assumptions were wrong
Depends in the location...Coastal browns, no friggin' way...
Control the predators and remember people are more important than animals. Animals are important but not at the detriment of oil exploration and farming.
Eric, on a personal level I agree my people are more important than animals, but I'm willing to bet a world filled with people and no animals would not work. Important as oil is for energy, it doesn't eat well. I, for one, do not want to live on a planet in which there are humans, oil wells, and farm fields -- even if that would be sustainable.
Thanks for your response Ron. I believe you are sincere and a great person. I believe there is a balance but we may or may not agree on the balancing point. Nevertheless, you amaze me with all you do on your show and I hope you keep up the great work.
Black Grouse full metall jacket 6,5x55 is standard. 22magnum is the minimum legal cartridge in Sweden for tjäder and orre ;)
I found star line brass for my 460xvr is pretty consistent in weight
We've lost most ground nesting birds in Louisiana because of fire ants. Another government import disaster
The .30 cal is great, but only as good as the next bullet!
Great commentary. I just picked up the P.O Ackley book. Although somewhat outdated. Its a very interesting read.
Good call on that 22Hornet suggestion. A friend of mine uses that for Turkey.
The 308 Marlin Express is loaded with a 160gr FTX (flex-tip) bullet that is constructed to not open as quickly as the same weight bullet used in 30/30 ammo of the same type. The problem is the case is truly unique, being loosely based on the 220 Swift. To further confuse the issue, the 338 Marlin Express is built on yet another case, the 376 Steyr, so despite the very similar naming of these two cartridges, their cases are not at all the same.
I grew up on kodiak island alaska,my dad opened the airport in 1967,park muncy was the #1 guide for hunters out of state,my dad hunted with him and got kodiak brown bears,elk,deer etc,but we always had airplanes so went to the mainland for moose ,mountain goat and reindeer,I used a 30-06 while dad prefer his 7mm.At 10 that 30-06 kicked my butt lol.Shot alot of deer with 30-30 mostly,even got stationed on Kodiak 2 times in the Coast Guard,havent been back since 1990,great hunting.
I have a 325 wsm and it’s a lever with a magazine. It works.
Just bring your Scar 17 with you. Light weight and battle proven.
Coyote have varmint status in my area (Western Pa.) because they tend to overpopulate near farming operations and around suburbs, taking farm animals and pets. We have no choice but to regulate their numbers. I'll admit though, I have only seen three or four in 30 years at my location.
I’ve shot 7 in the last 10 years, just in chance encounters , the last was a couple weeks ago with 3 kenneled dogs barking their heads off. 50 yards just getting daylight with a 22 .
I'm a Idaho resident and I use a 22lr or my 22mag most the time the Grouse are 10ft right off the trail but sometimes they're 25 to 30 yards but I try to stick with the head shots
From England. Wow! This presenter is the ultimate communicator.
For the Alaska question, the 338 rpm just released would be an ideal option. 225 grain bullet, 20 inch barrel, 6 lb rifle
@Paul I agree, 338 win mag has been around and nobody can argue its effectiveness. The advantage of the rpm only comes out if you’re after a lighter, compact package.
Well spoken. Lets not forget about the wolf problems we now have to deal with thanx to our wonderful government
Actually, it’s the imbalance that farmers, homeowners & business men inject into the environment that is the real problems. The government is just trying to undo what you did. Just heavily tax all the changes that cause habitat loss & fragmentation & you’ll gradually eliminate the problem. When people can’t afford current land use patterns, they will change.
I live with a wolf and she’s no problem. But I also live around too many people who are a major problem.
I live in an area where my forefathers exterminated the wolves. I'm thankful that I've never had to worry about being attacked by a pack of wolves. Actually there's not any predators around that would constitute a threat really. There's coyotes, black bears, and occasionally a cougar is spotted but the odds of being attacked by a wild predator are so small that it's not even a consideration. My friends next door neighbor was attacked by a red tailed hawk. It clawed her head repeatedly and she needed quite a few stitches. Apparently it's illegal to kill a hawk after the fact but it's okay to kill one in self defense if you're being attacked. So I tried to get the bird to attack me. The bird wasn't stupid and it knew better than to mess with me. I tried to make myself less intimidating by hiding my tennis racquet and doing my best impersonation of a little old lady. Still the bird knew better. It would fly towards me when I'd turn my back but it's instincts wouldn't allow it to get within tennis racket striking distance. I don't have any grudges towards hawks but I just figured that this was a once in a lifetime opportunity to be attacked by a hawk and fight it one on one with a tennis racket.
@@andysharlofsky627 You live with a wolf or a wolf lives with you? Friendly wolves aren't any problem. The ones that will kill you and eat you are the ones that are a problem. If your wolf isn't trying to kill you then I'd want my money back. You've got a defective wolf.
@@brianwilson4861 depends on the day. I guess it’s more like cohabit.