WHY MAESTRO SUSPENSION IS THE BEST
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
- Three core benefits set Giant's Maestro Suspension Technology apart from the rest: (1) It's fully active over every type of terrain, (2) it's completely efficient, as all your energy is transferred to the rear wheel of your bike, and (3) it provides total brake independence. On or off the brakes, Maestro is always fully active.
Giant's rear wheel path is vertical, so it's efficient. Specialized's rear wheel path is vertical, so it's inefficient. Sounds logical, Giant!
I could be wrong but I think it is to do with the location of the specialized pivot being right next to the pedals whereas the floating virtual pivot is further back and "floats" up and down with the suspension. The fact that the pivot is further back means that vertical forces applied at the pedals are more evenly distributed to the front and read wheels resulting in less pedal bob.
+TheJaisah then why does a Giant Reign pedal bob worse than any bike I've ever seen?
GRPABT1
I don't know bro, maybe lose a few kg? :P I've ridden bikes with worse pedal bob. All bikes with rear suspension will bob to some degree if you bounce your weight up and down when you pedal. Look at the way you're pedalling and see if you can improve on that. I also think that the maestro suspension is fucking awesome! Seriously good suspension. I have the Giant Reign 2 2016 with some upgrades.
+TheJaisah I don't own a Reign, a friend has a 2015 version. he basically gave up on any long rides after he bought it. he's looking into a coil shock for it now because even with a bunch of tokens it still blows through all the travel.
I have a Rocky Mountain Altitude and it climbs like a mountain goat by comparison and still hits all the big stuff the Reign does (albeit not quite as plush).
GRPABT1 Yeah I guess to be fair the Reign is an enduro bike so it's not really designed for long distance riding its more about being able to get to the top alright and then absolutely bombing it back down. The Rocky Mountain Altitude is an "aggressive trail" bike so its a bit more focused at pedalling on the flat and uphill and still capable at downhill. I've taken my Reign to some local gondolas and its awesome when you're on a proper downhill track. You can still take it for a longer ride on trails but its just not its intended use so it wont be as good as a proper trail bike. Pick your poison ;)
Would be nice to have the arcs shown to be accurate no exaggerated
*Grandson lives out from town on 18 acres and the **Latest.Bike** is great on trails through the woods, on gravel driveway, and through the yard. Keeps them active. Thanks Easter Bunny*
Says maestro is good because of a vertical axle path, but specialized is bad because it has a vertical axle path. Almost everything said in this video is just plain wrong.
vertical with a slight arc pay attention to the diagram
finish listening to that bit - it is pedal bob that is bad with S bike despite vertical path.
@@SirCamsmorethanalot exactly
@@aligarfield5590 they determine everything on axle path. Which is wrong. All that tells you is how it tracks. Instant centre is where everything is determine at minimum. Being an engineer and frame builder I can tell you now that wheel path is the single most useless thing you can use to determine suspension characteristics. If giant doesn't even know how to represent how good their linkage is properly, I'm not sure I'd want to pay attention at all
Daniel Tindley to be honest I’ve done research over the years and some of the stuff this chap was saying was utter nonsense with all due respect, I used to ride giant but have moved to dmr because the bike performs better for me, this video in hindsight 4 years on 😂 is completely irrelevant because realistically unless you’re like me testing bikes to find the best match for riding style and ability, the rear wheel arc is completely unimportant to the everyday rider, as for presentation this wasn’t giants video so don’t send hate to them, I will point out tho, giants do have one of the best performing systems I’ve ever ridden personally
I own a giant bike, it's great! But giant's marketing like this video makes me feel ashamed to own one! Bottom line: make some logical sense first please!
I have a 2015 Giant Trance Advanced 1 & love it. But, Maestro, VPP and Horst are all true four-bar semi-parallelogram linkages that all provide near-vertical, rear wheel movement. And there are many others. The differences in wheel path are small and subject to personal preferences etc. What matters though is that the linkages in Horst are way better positioned when it comes to adverse effects of linkage wear.
Single pivots and “false four bars” are correctly critiqued as having an arcing wheel travel, and are therefore not braking neutral, but their pedalling efficiency is incorrectly explained. E.g Santa Cruz Superlight is pedalling neutral because the pivot is on the chain-line. Furthermore, some riders like the fact that the Superlight-type designs cause the rear-end of the bike to drop during rear braking.
There seems to be very little correct info on bike suspension design in the internet, this is compounded by personal preferences, ergo, there probably is no "Best" suspension.
+Old Guy MTB What do you think of the maverick ml7 suspension setup? It's a oddity that seems to be left out. (also kinda old)
Even a beginner like me can't be fooled by this propaganda.
So true. It is very obvious they're trying to put their finger into our mouths. Chilean saying.
Hello! Im from the Future im from the year 2021 It seems the majority of trail and enduro bikes uses this system its crazy. Check 2021 Trek Slash or Canyon Strive i think the world cup winners can also prove it. Its crazy. LOL
@@lossantoscity3249 maestro better.
my favorite part about this video isn't just the sheer amount of BS crammed into it, but how even in the simulation you can see that the rear axle doesn't follow the lines he draws on the screen... lmfao
How come the fsr's vertical is wheelpath is problematic when the DW-link near-vertical path is not? Truly magical..
As you can see the maestro has 100% efficiency whit no bobbing, pedal kickback, perfect anti squat and everything else you want, it also automajically adjust to the rider weight and preference with no user input.
They really need to mark the actual path of the travel so you can see the actual arc, vertical, or s-shape path. It really makes their arguments less valid when the arrow paths are so exaggerated. In reality, yes different suspension platforms do have different riding characteristics. Depends on the rider, riding style if they can actually notice or care about the differences.
Being almost 2017 I think an updated video would be nice. So many amazing platforms out now.. The Switch Pivot, DW, Delta, 3rd generations vpp. the ibis Ripleys platform (whatever thats called). even the current generation of miestro. it would be neat to see how the stack up.
2022
what about Scott and GT suspension technology?
They don't talk about it cuz they got nothing on it.
translated: "ummga, maestro good, everything else baaad". sheessh, without a maestro I might as well just walk my bike down so as not to embarrass myself.
thank you for this gold nugget of LOLZ
At the 2016 Olympics, both gold medals were won on a Scott Spark. Both the men and women race.
This sounds a lot like an advertisement so I'm not sold at all. You also missed a couple types of suspension.
Agreed
I rate the best bike by what linkage looks the coolest or most unique. My Devinci Wilson is on a new damn level. Everything looks like a damn trek session now
they didn't show the abp on the fuel ex or the remedy...
I had a giant glory and changed it for a specialized status,and the status totally beats the glory,and its cheaper.
Bottom line - our bike is good, because others are bad.... MUAHAHAHAHA.......
I think the only true reason for wanting "perfect vertical" it is to reduce "pedal bob" which occur because chain pulls the rear axle toward the chainring IF chain line is higher\lower than the main pivot. If chain is aligned with the main pivot it doesn't matter much. That's why many single pivot bikes don't have a pedal bob in a smaller chainring and it gets worse in a large one. The reason there's so many new single pivot bikes with 1x11 transmission these days i guess which put chain line +\- at the level of main pivot and solves the problem...
That's exactly what I was asking myself throughout the whole video. Can't you just reduce pedal bob with anti-squat?
LOL... Huge bullshit and u know it :D
+Christopher Paul ¿Entonces por que giant mantiene el sistema maestro en todas sus bicicletas y el resto de marcas para cada modalidad usa un sistema distinto?
(anthem, trance, reign and glory) This have mestro suspension.
So basically everything else is crap?
Exactly! Everything se in the market... Is... How you say... CRAP! Hahahaha I love giant but this seems too high of a horse for me to ride lol
This is why I like giant
The Jamis Dakar with the MP2 suspension is the best ever! Nothing compares!!
I choose between a GIANT and a GT Helion full suspension bike, I choose the GT for various reasons, I can only say I love the GT Helion, I have lockouts for the front and rear. I don't notice a lot of bobbing from the rear, in fact I mostly use the rear lock out when climbing up over large obstacles like steps - etc, as the compressed suspension reduces clearance. I switched from a hard tail and will say the full suspension is awesome.
Where is Trek Fuel EX?
So, aside from the clear bullshit, you compared giant's trail bike to everyone else's XC bikes... Smooth.
+MrUprising222 its because there trail bikes are as harsh as an xc bike.
Giant forgot to mention frame geometry. Due to their suspension design Giant had long ass chain stays, these long stays cause the bike to handle like a 77 Cadillac through tight single track ,making the handling cumbersome compared to bikes with short stays. This also introduced excessive rear end flex making for vague handling on faster more open sections...but at least it soaked up bumps well.
this has a similar animation style to the giant marketing courses I have dealt with for the 2016 model year. I believe it's a pitch for sales people to make to their customers
The Scott Spark? Now that's a race dually.
It looks like the design uses both sides of the shock, in a different way than previous versions using the same shock...👍🏻
Propaganda. Though maestro is great, it does react to chain tension and does rely on shock compression to reduce chain bob. Video on the shock while riding show it. Quite a bold attack on every other suspension design though.
I know this is very late, but I built a full carbon high pivot bike with a vertical rocker link with 200mm rear travel, it feels amazing and is surprisingly efficient, and I then rode my friends 2015 specialised enduro and it was just heavenly and smooth, and both mine and his rear shocks were still cold so the oil didn't heat up at all because of how well the linkage works, I then rode someone's 2019 giant reign and it felt mushy, under damped and harsh at the same time somehow. Giants maestro is severely outdated and they need to change it, even Santa Cruz and specialised updated their already incredible systems to create even better ones and it just makes giant look like they're from the 90's. Sorry about the poor grammar and punctuation, its currently 2am and I'm tired
specialzed FSR: vertical movement=pedal bob and inefficiency
arching wheel path=pedal bob and inefficiency
maestro:vertical movement= perfectly efficient?????? wtf????
And dare they not even mention DW-Link from which the copied the idea and with out evne the minimal effort to change the layout just a little bit
Very scientific and thoroughly explained.... ugh.
Throwing crap in zeus level. This guy took the concept of dirt competition right up to the next level
Like the way you explain how your system works. At least Trek explained the physics behind their approach. Rather than just rambling about nothing. And maybe people ride single pivot bikes because they want the hard tail feel without the shock on landing.
A lot of the reasons that they say in this video are complete BS. The bottom line is that suspension design from all major bike carriers are pretty good (This video makes it look like everything but Maestro sucks).
Giant FAIL.
"allows your suspension to remain independent from pedaling forces"
"all your power drives the bike forward"
So then why the need to put a lockout lever on the shock?
Specialized FSR + Brain = Giant sitting quietly in the corner sucking thumb.
An informative video. This 2013 video needs updating to include the Yeti Switch Infinity in the comparisons.
This video is sweet. Could just as easily be called "comparison of cross country bike suspensions," you can't find a lot of animations like this elsewhere.
las lineas son un efecto óptico por lo tanto su tes es malo
@Starkenn Bikes... This is pure horse-hockey.
I own a Specialized Camber FSR, has the same setup as the one he showed. I have never had any problems with pedalbob. They say the Specialized is terrible because it has a linear motion and then turn around and say how the giant is great. Just don't make sense.
Over the actual range of travel, almost all of them are effectively vertical.
You say the FSR path is vertical, when in fact it has a smaller arc radius than the Santa Cruz and about the same as the Trek. The SC and Trek both have the pivots very close to the chain to reduce bob.
Oh please... Every design has it's drawbacks. Anybody notice they didn't even cover Trek's Evo suspension? Not sold, Giant.
I own a trance, and I'm quite impressed with the maestro link, I like it. Not much pedal bob when sit pedalling or sprinting leaning over the front of the bike. Pedal bob gets quite strong while standing and pushing downwards. Feels good on descents, and only bottoms out during hucks. That said, I don't think maestro is the definitive solution to everything as this video suggests, and this video definitely exaggerates things. Yeti's switch infinity has pedalling efficiency only found on hardtails, and Santa Cruz's VPP definitely isn't inactive, as shown by the success of the V10
Still sticking with my Santa Cruz Nomad 4 cc
This works very well on the Trance, but they needed to tweak it for the Reign. They didn't, and the Reign doesn't ride as well as it could because of it. My only issue with Maestro is rollover. It moves pretty much vertically, which is good for climbing and drops, but when you roll over things, your rear wheel makes contact at an angle closer to parallel with the ground. So sometimes its like engaging the suspension perpendicular to the wheel arc it allows and that can be weird.
How about a 2012 Anthem x3 with maestro 4.0 26r ,ANY GOOD ?
Bottom line: We may or may not have stolen this design from the DW link
rockofullr i think it looks like a modified DW link, or am i wrong? it has no pivots near the rear axle
+Jorge Ramirez You'll have to decide for yourself. There was a long court case between DW and Giant. It was "resolved" whatever that means.
este sistema es exelente, genial y es una ayuda para subir y bajar, por todos los terrenos
I love how they try to say how good maestro is by saying cannondale is straight up poor. Also, isn't it funny how they skipped the DW link, which giant got sued by DW because maestro was too similar to DW link. Clever, giant.
Specialized Epic with the brain, is the first 29er bike to win the World Cup Championship, and the Olympics, yet it isn't mentioned.
Tell us about the Scott gambler, young giant ambassador
the gambler is sort of exempt from this comparison because of its downhill designed linkage. it's supposed to be supple in the beginning and save you from big g outs. it is flat out "bad" in the eyes of anyone who looks to pedal uphill on typical trails.
treks fuel and remedy works like maestro too.
koukimonzta Right man, but no one say that.
koukimonzta with the advantage of the full floater, perhaps they didn't show it because it would make them look bad :(
+koukimonzta Yeah, that was funny, bashing on practically dead Rumblefish model, but left out all the Full Floater models that came out first in 2008.
Paul G from what i heard and saw pictures on google Giant actually made Trek.
koukimonzta NO NO NO NO GAINT DIDNT MAKE TREK every bike brand is better than giant treks bikes ace anything giant can put out.
I don’t ever see the pivot on the chain stay move, it looks like it’s behaving like the fulcrum of the stance pivot
My 07 Kona Coiler totally kicks my giant glory's ass in every situation.
i had a giant with the maestro suspension and i changed it for a stumpjumper fsr s works 2009 and it blows the giant completely out of the water
As a HAPPY owner of a giant (Reign) I can say it's a very good design... but much of what is said in this video is completely wrong and sometimes even contradictory... it skips over characteristics of the various designs as it sees fit... maestro IS a good design but it's by no means perfect (ad no one is)...
i own a giant reign 2, honestly, i don't have any other full suspension frames other than the Reign, at 95 kgs here are some things i can compare to a hardtail.
1. pedal bob appears noticeable when standing up on climbs, the lighter the gearing the worst it gets.
2. sitting down on climbs, does climb like a hardtail.
3. it is plush and sensitive.
4. i feel like i am blowing up the rear shocks on 2-3 ft jumps.
Giant is best in the world,i drive hardtail giant and it fells good in the trails
I love my GT Force with Angle Optimized Suspension
but what about the fun factor yes single pivot's aren't the best for pedaling but they are so fun it keeps you on your toes
@Starkenn Bikes You forgot Diamondback's Knucklebox suspension which look's similar
The merida One Twenty 9500 is almost same as the Maestro, but its better when you compare it to each other :D
Should have included the DYAD by cannondale.
That's just a linkage activated single pivot.
How about Pivot's DW link? Seems to work pretty good.
it is really active
If you're going to observe the suspension movement of the different systems illustrated here, they are all nearly the same. They don't follow the exaggerated path pointed to with the red arrow. Also, it says Maestro VERTICAL wheel path = Efficient, but FSR VERTICAL wheel path = Inefficient. What???
why didn't they compare with trek remedy and other full floater kinds?
and he hasn't taken into account how fun the suspension is to ride. I ride a single pivot and its bundles of fun or just buy a hard tail
What about Yeti's Switch technology compared to this? And now they came with Switch Infinity
so when meastro has virtical travel path it is good but when specialized have it it is bad. This video has lot of issues
Specialized and cannondale are best at marketing. Ahh that's it! They really want to like these suspensions!
does he mention the longer chain stay that maestro has
what about FELTS Equilink ? i own a felt and it works in pretty much the same way.
So this is an improvement over the NRS suspension?
There’s a reason you didn’t feature Niner’s CVA system - it’s the best
No it's not, more pivot mean more weak point and more maintenance! The near vertical wheelpath mean you will hit the bottom of every hole. This suspension is really not the best for climbing and what about the pumping while pushing hard. The shock was so low, it was almost impossible to reach the lockout so i set it in the middle! Giant make forgiving bike but it come with downside, goofy feeling and overall ineficiencies... I still ride 3 giant bikes, 2 road bikes and a mtb hardtail! Maestro suspension was a maintenance nightmare for me! My new bike have a suspension like the Kona and being able to reach the lockout easily make it way more efficient.
what about Ellsworth ICT ? why was that not compared in the video
Cannondale suspension seems counter intuitive. That linkage shouldn't work. So you mean to say the chassis flexes to allow suspension movement?
To me,my V10 suits my style of riding better. I have tried my friends Glory advanced and it rides like a dream too.
Make more funny videos like this!!!!
man talk about a giant commercial
what about yeti or other bikes with a vertical shock like norco and canyon
You forgot the Norco bike witch use a very similar suspension along with other downward facing shox
I love how they can say that I have a single pivot and its fine on my orange 223 and I love how many other company's had this tech before giant such as the trek session and the kona stinky, I'm pissed of me!
I have been riding Giant Reign for 3 years and I would say Maestro is great, but not as great as it said. I would not say brake jack do not exist in maestro. Every time I put the brake level, the suspension become rigid. I wouldn't say lockout, but rigid. It is very active during descent and climbs well through, but it is still highly dependent on the shock. The rigidity of the rear triangle is also a problem. When I push hard, I could feel the rear end of the bike flexing sideways. This results in mild instability while going around corners.
I have never met anyone in marketing who knew what they were talking about !
making use of the expiration of the VPP patent
what about the meridas float link suspension
sorry, this makes no sense, those arrows drawn have nothing to do with the real pad. Please learn some geometry, or contact me for a lesson ;)
All of the likes = Giant owners. All of the dislikes = people who wish they saw this video before buying something other than a Giant LOL
Everything looks good but where is the world champion mtb xco or DH?? Specialized have many years being in the top of the competition and events all over the world
Where is the FPS system from Lapierre?
per me le migliori sospensioni in assoluto sono quelle montate sulle specialized, silvano.
They probably did't cover Yeti's Switch Infinity because it was better.
also missing is the trek full floater suspension
Marin Attack Trail 6.9.... game over!
Marin Attack Trail 6.9 ??? What an awful ineffective design.