HUGE GAINS! 30sec FASTER w Suspension & Tires - 2017 Mazda MX-5 ND - Nürburgring Nordschleife BTG
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2024
- This is the final episode in our ND series and it couldn't be anything but a good old hot lap video. Followed of course by the usual debrief, in which our heroes try to understand if all those changes managed to change the character of the ND and turn it into what Gab originally dreamt the 4th generation Mazda MX-5 would be. We hope you enjoyed following this whole journey with us and feel free to share your thoughts in the comments below, even if you don't agree with our conclusions.
0:00 - Intro
0:17 - Hot Lap
8:45 - Back To The Roots
10:10 - To The Point?
21:15 - Is there a right ND?
22:15 - Final Thoughts. Bullet Points. (MUST WATCH)
Join us next Friday, for the start of a new(?) project!
Watch all previous #ProjectND episodes:
Episode 1 - Base Lap ► • 2017 Mazda MX-5 ND 1.5...
Episode 2 - 3 Years Review ► • Living 3 Years With My...
Episode 3 - Suspension ► • How To Fix The ND? Ins...
Episode 4 - Lightweight Flywheel ► • We Install Lightweight...
Episode 5 - First Drive ► • First Drive! Complete ...
Support companies that support OLH and get your MX-5 parts through I.L. Motorsport:
www.ilmotorsport.de/en/ - Авто та транспорт
- I always watch the videos until the end.
- The FD of Kostas was bad indeed. Hopefully this has changed with all the upgrades.
- The FD of Kostas will be back this year.
- It will bring all 500hp and push - YOU SIDIRAS - from behind.
- Gab i am sorry you still don't like the car. I was hoping the mods will make you change mind.
- What are you replacing the ND with? A Porsche? Cmon, please!
- What about #cookingwithkostas ?
- Where is that V-TEC MX5? Want to see that thing lap. It's been far too long.
- Last but not least. If i didn't know better i would swear there are timestamps in this video.
- +1 for that Best Motoring intro.
I bet he's looking for late 86s or BRZs
- Appreciated.
- We've heard the stories. We just want to experience it in person.
- See above.
- Kostas vs Kostas is all the people want to see.
- See no.2
- That... that is going to be an interesting one.
- That is not interesting but is... happening. Should it be a bet? Kostas that loses the Kostas vs Kostas thing has to do... 'Cooking with Kostas'?
- System error.
- Timestamps. A schedule. A podcast. Strange things indeed...
- BM/Hot Version FTMFW.
Man, you already won everything with the first point, respect.
Bring the FD back, don't worry about the rest. I am also sorry I did not like the car but I tried... I really tried
Best Motoring intro always warms the heart :-)
True to how everything started.
We dont forget our roots
I'm two seconds in and I hit pause just to say 😍😍😍😍😍😍 best motoring. Tears in my eyes.
One day we might pull a full BM style battle episode with multiple OLH projects just for the tribute...
Just sayin.
Dale it looks like it's on purpose but it wasnt :D
@@OneLapHeroes don't forget the pointy finger thing Tsuchiya always has🤣
The best motoring channel on UA-cam. The conversation is so engaging and energetic, and gives the viewer a real, proper, authentic sense. I love all the interruptions!
Ultimately, ALL machines are a compromise in some way I’ve learned and having one tool for all jobs means, well wider compromise. Like all good compromises it really suits nothing!
Cant wait to see what the boys come up with next!!!
We honestly appreciate the feedback a lot. As funny as it might sound without you guys liking and commenting on those it is tricky for us to understand if what we are trying to do resonates. So, as long as you guys are following we promise to keep it... interesting!
Hi Graham!
Thanks for the kind words, we are trying to deliver the most honest motoring content and we appreciate the feedback!
Small note, I am not naive and I am fine with compromises as long as they make sense. Compromising steering feel in a damn MX5 is just plain stupid
@@GabrielePiana Fair point well made. For some reason steering seems to be a weakness in modern cars - as you mention about electric rack etc. But even my XK/R with hydraulic steering had pathetic feel. I yearn for the days of my old XR3i in which you knew what was going on under the wheels. Guess I need a 911. Is there any other car you know of that gives really decent feel?
Agree: somewhere an engineer wants shooting for messing this on the MX-5. Unless they were attempting to broaden appeal to the female market?
I think they went for a deliberate feel. They made it quick, light and not self centering, this gives the illusion of a car that's light on its feet and reactive, always needing some adjusting. Of course it's all fake and bullshit, there is no reason I should keep adjusting the steering to go straight, this is not what a proper car does. But I guess they reckoned that this would make it feel sporty to the average customer! Difficult to answer about modern cars steering, I think Porsche is up there to be honest.
The touge battle style intro ❤️. As always , i love your honesty guys and the on board ❤️ .
Hi Florian!
Best Motoring Intro for the win!! And thanks for the kind words!
Thank you for the series, gentlemen!
Appreciated! You guys liking and commenting helps us make more.
Thank you very much for the nice comment Robert!
Thank you guys for all the videos about the MX5 ! That is the reviews I was looking for ! 🙏
+1 Sub!
Really really appreciated the series, guys! Brutally honest car reviews like this are something that YT is missing and are extremely precious...
As you said the ND is something in the middle, being not a performance-fun car, neither a comfortable daily car, but an unsatisfying mix of both worlds. Could be the best choice not to spend 30k on an MX5, and instead spend 15k on a comfy daily and 15k on a fun weekend-only car?
A lot of hard work and planning went into this. We did expect some negative feedback from owners that wouldn't like some of our points but we tried many times to explain them with objective measures and showcase them fully. It is a pity some of the 'new' people following the videos don't understand that we are HUGE MX-5 enthusiasts.
Anyway, if a handful of potential owners find this information (that we hoped we'd find when originally researching the car) and it helps them we are good.
To the point in hand with a 30k budget the 2.0 ND2 should be considered. However if steering feel is important and you want to make sure this is your thing a test drive might be a great idea before committing.
(Plus if that doesn't work at 15k for a fun-only/track car there are plenty of cool options)
Hi!
You hit the nail on the head, it's exactly like you describe it.
In my mind, absolutely more sense to get a weekend only car if you are looking for the fun factor.
@@OneLapHeroes I'm actually following the channel since the very beginning! So I know well how much do you love MX5s :)
The problem is, from a series to another a car can change a lot, and being a NA/NB fan doesn't automatically mean being an ND fan.
I did a test drive, on a 1.5 ND1, and the lack of steering self-centering force was the biggest problem to me. As far as I understand you couldn't improve that with the most aggressive angles you can get with stock parts.
So yes, in the end I'm putting in stand-by my choice and I'll wait for the new GR86 this autumn, hoping it won't be priced too high! If the GR86 won't convince me as well I'll start thinking seriously about the "two-car garage" option..
And so the ND project is wrapped up! Love all the work you put into this. It was very entertaining and gives a great idea of what to expect when using this car as a platform for ones next project.
Completely understand how one bad essential component can ruin the whole car (coming from the horrible steering of a '79 RX7...). To be honest I feel like the project was maybe given up one step too early. One of the (few) benefits of electric steering is that the amount of assisting power can in theory be adjusted. It would have been interesting to see this final flaw be resolved. Then again I understand you have more reasons and are already up into the next project (what a cliffhanger!)
Tim. The next project. You are not ready.
That's all for now.
@@OneLapHeroes nice
Tim, we secretly hoped you would give us an offer to buy the car and experiment with the EPS.... :P
@@GabrielePiana if by experiment you mean delete then yes :) I could modify/engineer it this way. not interested in buying the ND tho!
Thank you for the honesty.
Thanks for your honesty.
Appreciated! We need those comments the most in 'controversial' videos like this.
Hello Dom!
Thanks for your comment, highly appreciate it!
Good episode! Educational
The final verdict about the steering is pretty brutal to hear D:
I would be interested if the steering changed with the ND2 facelift...
We promise we will try to return to this. Just for all of you that want closure.
They say it's been improved. The fact that mazda swapped racks between ND1 and ND2 says it all, to be honest.
Still, beside few Mazda Zaelots, the general consensus is that while better, the ND2 is still pretty meh (Steering wise)
Selling my ND2 right now!
Nah just kidding, I love my miata. Very interesting to see your point of view guys, I´m actually surprised/disappointed to know how bad the steering feel is, but truth is I will probably never track it and I didn´t drive any real sport car before soooooo I can live with its flaws lol. Thanks for the honest review, subbed!
Thank you for your honesty both of you. I understand that after you experience cars with exceptional steering feel (like Lotus, McLaren etc), it isn't logical to say that Mazda have succeeded with their steering feel for the ND1 MX-5s. So long as you don't call us idiots for buying the ND2s which have marginally better steering feel, I'm totally fine with this brutally honest review!
Our intent was NEVER to call ND owners idiots. I think a small minority of ND owners took this the wrong way.
We aren't exactly surprised because people generally do not favor alternate views on cars they've already purchased.
We just hope people don't forget we are after all MX-5 guys at heart. And much of our frustration comes from wanting the car to be not just good but exceptional.
Anyway, we do believe the above information (and the whole series) should be very useful to both the community and prospective buyers.
Anyway, it is the internet and everything should be looked with a critical eye (including our opinions).
@@OneLapHeroes- Responding to the last statement of your reply...Opinions on Internet are like *ssholes...everyone has one?
True! 👊
Absolutely never intended to call you idiots! I went into the ND expecting a great driving fun car, it wasn't and I fear that some others might make the same mistake if they use similar metrics to judge a car. Nothing more and nothing less!
I can totally see how an ND2 could be a perfect car for many!
very well done guys
I've been waiting for this video to be uploaded and I drove my ND2 (184 ps) 2.0L before watching this video to summarize my thoughts. I think the 1.5 and 2.0L share the same electronic steering rack. Even with the ND2, the steering feel is dead; but I still love my MX-5!
Brief backgound:
- Bought an ND2 "Spec" model from my local dealer; all STOCK except for suspension and handling mods installed by the DEALER such as Cusco Sport S coilovers, Cusco front and rear sway bars, Mazdaspeed front power brace and upper stress bars
- No experience driving a completely stock ND2; so I can't compare the difference
- Also own a completely stock 2012 Toyota 86 (electronic power steering also); the 86 has much better steering feel AND handling than my ND2 "Spec" unit
To get to the point, the ND2 MX-5 would have been a perfect car if it had the steering rack and suspension performance of the 86 straight from the factory. Conversely, the 86 would have been perfect if it had the engine and transmission of the ND2 MX-5. I own both cars and love them. Why? They're lightweight, rear-wheel drive, fun to drive cars with MANUAL transmission and relatively affordable. Cars like these are going extinct. I don't want to dissuade anyone from buying. Do your home work and do a test drive. The only way for manufacturers to continue making them is if we continue buying them. I only hope they listen to enthusiasts like us, and not solely on focus groups made up by retirees from California.
We couldn't agree more. We honestly hope more owners could read the above, coming from a fellow owner, to understand that Gab's complaint is not just some odd race driver's extremely demanding taste. And, exactly as you said NONE of the above should stop you from enjoying your ND (and actually both your great manual cars) to the fullest!
The demographic is indeed the one you describe. Environmental reasons and the upcoming generation's lack of interest in cars doesn't help the performance variants.
Enthusiasts in denial that electronic power steering COULD (and SHOULD) have been calibrated better doesn't help our point.
In the end, marketing departments will say why you need x more millions to refine this or redesign that. All previous owners said it is 'fine'.
So we try to do our small part. Put our money were are mouth is (buy the cars we like). Speak openly about what we think is wrong (hopefully that creates healthy dialog).
Hi Francis!
Thanks for taking the time to watch all this and for sharing with us your experience. As I feared, the "improved" ND2 steering is still not "good" by any mean, and this is just terrible news to me.
You are right that an ND with proper steering would be quite close to the perfect recipe, and this is why I am so frustrated and pissed about it all! They overlooked the single most important aspect of driving a sports car, the steering!
This depresses me, I cannot believe that this is how they decided to build it, so disappointing.
86 is trash, you just cannot drive
Your coilovers seem really good!
So impressed by the Mazda nd performance on track by one lap heroes. Amazing what you can do with 1.5 engine a good chassis and gearbox and some sticky tires.
Now I want to see a battle between NA of kostas and the 1.5 ND.
We are afraid that people don't realize how cool the car is (no matter the steering feel complaint and what not).
In a world that the average hot hatch makes between 200 to 300 hp... the fact that the small 1.5 MX-5 pulls with such little work 8:20s should indeed be celebrated.
Hi Stefan!
Thanks for the kind words!
The ND did well, I thought we could have gone faster and I think with few more laps and tweaking we could actually do it but I was not motivated to do it. This is actually the whole problem, if you are not motivated to drive your ND on track because it's not fun, it means something is wrong with it.
@@GabrielePiana The mx-5 would make a great give-away as soon as you find a sponsor to give you something you would love to drive. May I suggest alpine to give you an 110s, I do still love the nd understand the critic for the steering but for me on nd2 it’s not much of a problem. The combo of the right tires for the car is critical as is the slightest change in tire pressure and the feeling of the input of the nose is gone. Personally I found the winter tires Nexen win guard 2 a very good choice on 17 inch wheels and for summer the Michelin pilot sport 4 . But for track use these are no option.
@@stefanboeykens8874 As soon as we get a sponsor to give us a whole car, I promise I will give away whatever car I own at that time to a random viewer! :D
Unbelievable
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Passenger lap with Gabriele is more fun than cooking with Kostas
Lap with Gabriele while Kostas cooking on the passenger seat?
🤯🤯🤯
I don't think that will end well
😂😂😂
Hi Monir!
Thansk for the kind words. Look, I have seen Kostas cooking and I can guarantee you there is nothing fun about it.
If I received a 10% dose of the energy Kostas has, then I would surely overdose!
Thank you Gab for your willingness to describe the non-ideal steering feel of the ND.
Hi Eric!
Ahahah, you are saying he's hyped? :D
Thanks for watching all this and commenting under it, highly appreciate it! Give the channel a sub if you have not done it already so the next video comes and you dont miss it!
Hi Gabriele...Hello Kostas!
So..your brutally honest "review" is actually very appreciated...I'd rather hear you both state your perspectives/opinions of the car honestly for the discussion...than to be told more "fluff" responses so that everyone "likes" your answers and outcome...
Not Everything is for Everybody!
Nice Update! 👊
Edit: A cliffhanger? You seriously ended on a cliffhanger?...
Damn...It.. 😑
We appreciate the continued support (and comments).
We promise what follows will be equally unfiltered and hopefully good fun... stay tuned!
@@OneLapHeroes- Damn Skippy I'll continue to watch and support...One of The Best Channels on Y-tube! 👊
Hi Paul!
Thanks for the nice words, we really appreciate it! And yes, we are learning this youtube thing on the fly and we read Cliffhangers are the thing!
I ve got the RF nd2 2.0 184hp. I would say its so much fun in the street. I wont go with it on track for now. But the new 2 litre engine, recaro seats and bilstein suspensions are very good for me. I am not sue i would want it to be more stable on streets honestly. I think one point of this is beeing able to daily drive it having much fun going everywhere.
I have the an ND 1.5 as well with similar modifications. I agree with you 100% with the steering. I think the only thing that can be done to fix it is a steering rack swap to a hydraulic one or to sell the car.
Happy to hear owners coming forward. Unhappy of course that this is the case.
Still we don't regret our time with the ND. We just would like to make sure we share our experience straight!
Hi Richard!
We went for the easy cop out, we sold it :D
Hi !
I have a ND2 184 with sport pack. And i have no experience like you but, i'm totally agree, i a love this car but hate it at same times because i can't feel my front tires, and it's very disturbing. She's so close to the perfection... But this bad feeling kill her, and i'im thinking about sell it, for an GT86 or an Elise (but it's more expensive in France actually).
Thank you for your honesty, your video series is the most real on this mx5.
Sorry for my english.
Thanks for series! I drove ND2 G184 with Ohlins and it was actually nice, but I see what Gab is feeling...
I think he is getting either Toyobaru, Speedster or Boxster!
If he's coming from a Lotus Elise, it'll be impossible for any electric power steering system to satisfy him apart from say Porsche's GT3 maybe, even then I don't know.
Well you see, for someone that has similar experiences, even what you drove (probably the best spec WITH aftermarket suspension might have some of these traits.
What we tried to explain is that this doesn't make it a bad car. It is actually a very nice package. That doesn't mean that the issues aren't there though.
The next thing... the next thing is special... We aren't spoiling anything but we recommend you check back here next Friday (or the one after that)!
@@smilepermile8165 you will find it very funny but Gab is not a fun of the steering on the 991 GT3s either.
Which btw is one of the BEST electricly assisted racks in the market.
This is why it is important for people to try things themselves.
Our opinion shouldn't be taken for the ultimate truth.
However we do expect people to respect the factual parts of our experience.
I bet the ND2 184 with Ohilins is a very good driving car, especially if the steering has been improved! Is it 40k good tho? with that steering?
@@smilepermile8165 We discussed this in other comments, I am not comparing the ND to the Elise. Even comparing it to the NA is enough of a disappointment :D
Sorry to hear that you're still not satisfied with the car. As others, I'm would also be interested to hear if you have driven the ND2 which improves both points you dislike: improved steering and more power. And also the sport/club package with the Bilstein dampers is a big improvement in handling, although I wouldn't mind a bit stiffer springs even on the road.
I've never been in the Miata fan club, in fact I drove one the first time a year ago when looking for a convertible, and I bought one shortly after that. It's by far the car I felt most connected to in terms of pure driving enjoyment. If you want a fun convertible there is no other new car that can compete at the MX-5 price point, so in that sense it's not over-priced.
We will try to get our hands to an ND2 because trust us nothing we would love more than a fourth gen MX-5 we could rave about!
That said we really believe many people misunderstood Gab. For example he specifically bought the 1.5 because you CAN'T drive many modern cars on the roads 10/10 and he doesn't believe you need 500 hp to have fun. His points were specific. He never said the ND is a bad car as a total. It just didn't have the right compromises for him.
Hi there!
We did not get to drive an ND2 yet, we heard is "improved". As for the sport package, we put proper coilovers in the car and an alignment and this did nothing to fix the steering feel, quite obviously.
Depending on your previous driving experience, the ND might be the best driving car you ever touched. In absolute terms tho, there are significant limitations that make it considerably worse than it's predecessors as far as driving experience and fun.
@M1ATA56 AMG Well, I can tell you without any fear of being wrong that you are being wildly optimistic about what the ND can do. I understand you really like MX5s but stating that "nothing can compete at any price point" simply confirms that your bias pro-miata is dangerously close to make you a fanatic.
I am very happy you are loving the car so much, really, but it is not the best driving car in the world BY FAR. It's not even the best driving car at the price point. Heck, is not even top 25.
@@GabrielePiana Yes, you have much more experience with driver focused cars than me, so your reference point is completely different from mine. I was primarily looking for a fun roadster/convertible, and not the best driving car in general (if that was the case I would have tested many other cars). For that purpose, I don't see any competition for the MX-5 in the new car market (buying an old Miata model was never an option for me as I want modern safety and entertainment features).
I found the sport trim almost perfect for road use, much better than the standard trim. I've considered getting lowering springs to reduce the body roll even further, but they're quite expensive to install (about 900 eur here). So, at the moment I think I'll settle for a better sounding exhaust (the Cobalt).
great! honest video, thanks!
Thanks! You guys keep commenting. We keep doing them.
Thanks for the nice comment! If you'd like to see more you could go above and beyond and subscribe to the channel to, this helps! :D
"Mission stay in the seat"
-Mission Passed-
respect +
Not an easy task. Not an easy task at all.
Ahahahaha Adam mate, holding on to the steering wheel and wedging my helmet in the roof like a champ!
Congratulations Guys on this great Series. Honestly I'm watched some parts of it multiple time.
But I couldn't find out if OR if not you guys have installed wheel spacers?
If yes, how much mm at Front and Rear?
If no, Thank you for the advice / recomendation not to use them.
Greetings Torsten
Great lap as always, and thank you for clearing alot of things up about the ND, you just can't find too many reviews out there that really focus on the driving part.
I used to think my ideal daily car ( that doesn't financially ruin me lol) would be an ND, but now I think it would actually be more into the gt86 direction.
I also have a question for you guys: I currently drive an NC2 1.8 and I am getting tired of flopping into every corner and not knowing if im going to hit the bump stops or no, wich really isn't too confidence inspiring, especially compared to some other cars I've driven. It actually is quite snappy too, but catching it is always managable.
What suspension upgrade would you recommend I should get to improve it? I occasionally track this car, but I mostly wan't to have fun with the car, so like you said it will probably stay on road tires. At some point i will have to daily drive it, but I don't mind a bit stiffer suspension comfort wise. I just want the car to be more confidence inspiring and more fun to drive in general.
By the way, I discovered your channel about a month ago and already love everything about it, I hope I get to meet you guys for real when I stop by at Nords some time!
Keep on sending it on the Ring!
or maybe it's just time to admit that it might not be the right car for me, I don't know. But i do think its fun, it's just the suspension and sometimes lack of confidence that comes with it
Most definitely do suspension (and probably an engine swap!).
We recommend you try both a GT86 and 2.0 ND2. We have a feeling you might still like the ND more.
Hello Tiyama!
Thanks for the kind words first of all, we appreciate it!
I'd just put a set of proper coilovers on your NC, nothing more! Swapping it for an ND would make little sense, you get a bit more creature comfort for everyday but you have a worse driving experience, so I would not do it.
Does the GT86 suits you better, stiffer chassis and quicker steering rack, is the feel any better ? Have you tried the Andreas IS200 with hydraulic rack?
Have you guys tried the ND2? I think the calibration of the electric power steering is changed on ND2.
Btw, regarding the lack of autoclosing windows on the ND review, it is because of safety. Same as operating electrical roof while moving.
That would interest me aswell tbh!
It's better in the ND2 but it's still not great tbh. Only really high end electric steering units like those in the GT3RS etc are good the rest are not worth it.
Many people say the ND2 has improved steering feel, but I have a feeling that it will be hard to satisfy Gab, as he owned a Lotus Elise, which is at one of the top when it comes to steering feel.
I'm extremely curious as well, he should try an nd2 to complete this mx5 topic.
We want to believe that this is the case since plenty of people that owned a 1.5 and then upgraded to the ND2 communicated an improvement.
When/if we get the chance we will try to review the latest model.
I have an 2.0 ND1 and I absolutely agree with Kostas. The engine add more than power, it add involvement. For me options are ND1 chipped with exhaust manifold and a completely stock ND2…
That is exactly our thoughts. ND2 184, leave drivetrain stock, tweak suspension to the use. Have a ton of fun with a VERY good looking modern, lightweight car.
Hi Andrea!
Torque fixes everything! :D
I bet is another ND xD lol. TBH i think from what you said in the first video on this series you should have replaced it regardless and maybe saved some money that you spent on the parts and got a car you'd want. That said i enjoyed the video series very much, thanks for your time and hard work :D
We really appreciate all you guys that enjoyed this as a video series.
A lot of work for the team to pull this together.
Hopefully what follows is equally exciting.
Hey there! Thanks for watching this whole series!
Mate, if I'd have done that many would have come to me saying that I should have modded it to see how amazing it would be! You cannot win this :D
I get your point with the missing feedback from the steering. The reason I didnˋt buy a Z4 or a 981S is the the disapointing electric powersteering of these cars. I ended up with a heavy modified NC2 (FM Supercharger, light flyweel, short rear axle, coilovers, swaybars, wheels, UHPs, brakes, etc). I started the project in 2013 and even after 8 years I havenˋt found an alternative. If I could accept a roof and a double clutch gearbox, it would be the alpine
Hi Andy!
Arguably hard to find anything close to your NC straight from the showroom, not even the Alpine would match a tailored project like yours but it could get close!
Not all EPS are bad, the ND one is particularly horrible but there are some that are quite ok too!
@@GabrielePiana I agree. Some newer systems come close to hydraulic ones. But I know no gen. 1 EPS that is acceptable. The newer cars, where the EPS-problem is often solved , have other problems like size, weight, too long gearing of the manuals, emission and sound restrictions. The steering of the 718 GTS / GT4 works, but the gearing is unaccaptable and the sound is miles away from the earlier generation.
Cool lap, really keeping momentum in some areas, it looked pretty fast for this power to me. Car seems to have a nice balance, a bit bouncy maybe? Ps: you still don’t know, but the ugly nc is the car you were looking for 😬 you’re welcome 😜
Hi Fred,
I tell you, it felt pretty quick while doing it too, although rewatching it there are areas where some time could be gained but the fact that after 2/3 laps I was not motivated to go out again and just wanted to park it, speaks volumes on how I feel about the car.
Did you guys try to pull the fuses to turn off the power steering, some try and love it. Maybe having a Switch to turn on and off if one think its to hard to drive slow. Such a light car should have no problem running with no power steering
Nice lap 👍
Appreciated!
thanks Hans!
you guys that like so much the oem steerig rack of NA/NB, what do you think about depowering it? i've made that modification (with properly welded pinion) and, apart from tight turns on mountain roads, i'm happy with the results
I'm not a fan of.
Personally it makes the car feel heavy and less nimble.
I've driven a spec miata in the rain in Laguna Seca with manual steering rack and although it was still lot's of fun, I never felt I gained more feel with the unpowered rack. It was just heavier.
The OLH team is split on this. At stock power level and tire widths the depowered rack is an option (RingBanana and our K20 car are running depowered racks).
For highly modified NA/NBs with wide high grip setup we do not believe that no power steering is the optimum way. (As Alexis said above)
I had a depowered rack in my NA and loved it. I am not so sure how one could succesfully depower and EPS rack since this would surely interfere with steering position sensors which also talk to ABS and TC and the ECU so...
I like your discussion about the MX-5 that you'd driven and developed. Too bad that you're disappointed in the results. The only MX-5 that I've ever driven is the 2022 ND RF GT that I bought last year. As an older driver, the steering feels fine to me. When I was a younger driver, I saw some two hundred starts in competition... so I have some understanding of handling and drivability and could appreciate the phases of development that you put into your MX-5. But I say, the basics are there, and success could be just one more modification... like a later model steering unit.
Do you think the suspension with 14/8kg is too stiff for road use?
Hmm sorry to hear. Nc has proper steering. My mx5 specialist in The Netherlands also told me that with a 2.0l nc with sportive package there is no need to anytime soon think about nd. Let hope mazda fixes this for the 184 gt version.
At my mx5 nc tires is actually a major thing. Race wheels Enkei and 215 tires. Vredestein was really grippy and made the car 'dance' in corners turning in a lot. Now I use hankook v12 and suddenly it steers very light and when I got heat into the tires it sticks enough but room to play have fun also. but never too sticky or 'hanging in the tires' that made the suspension do a lot of work.
We do want to believe the 184 ND addresses most of our problems. When we get to try one we will make sure to share it here.
Other than that an NC with a good setup of course has proper steering! That is one of the great characteristic off all 3 previous generations of the MX-5.
(Hence we are so disappointed the ND doesn't follow suit...)
Hi Peter!
Well, your MX5 specialist might have given you the best advise out there.
that way of looking for the slipstream at 5:13 gives you a hint that isnt a usual driver
Honesty=respect in my book. It's all about value, deals to be had at any price point. My NA has bracing, suspension, and tires. I'm very happy with it, until my friends pull away from me on our drives in their 181, 2.0 NDs. Seriously considering a J35 V6 swap this winter. 285hp/250tq MSM trans and diff. Thoughts? Newly designed oil pan tucks up into the stock subframe.
Hi David,
thanks for the kind words and we agree that at any price point there is a deal to be had! I'd say that if the motivation of the swap is because your friend is driving away with the ND, you might not want to do it.
If you want to swap it, with all the works and money that this entails, because YOU want it, then go ahead!
@@GabrielePiana thanks for the response! You guys are the definition of automotive passion. I'm gonna do the swap because my '95 Laguna is my forever Miata and I want something unique. The funds are available, to do it right, and this is my F'you to the world car 😂. I like the usability of the under stressed Honda V6, it's a swap that's not insane for the street, just borderline crazy!
@@davidmccaughan2710 assuming you are in the US you should seriously consider the LFX kit if you are 100% set on doing a V6 in your MX-5.
Leaps and bounds better than all other conversion kits (especially those that might look more popular online).
@@OneLapHeroes Followed Kostas' swap very closely. The lower ultimate power and retention of stock trans and diff are big selling points for the J35 swap for me. But I may go for the V8 roadster's subframe just to make exhaust routing easier.
I know you don't like the looks but the NC2/2.5 is a great platform especially if you want to do some mods. More horsepower from factory and hydraulic power steering make a big difference.
The NC, with a proper engine, is indeed a great platform. And it is true, we don't really like the looks but we often have recommended the car to enthusiasts.
NCs are a proven platform and we agree are a lot of fun, but at the price of a well built NC I would go somewhere else.
hi bro actually can you explain why you choose that 1.5L engine ? what is the reason behind that ?
Interesting final conclusion. I cant stop driving my 30th anniversary nd2. It has bbr super 220 kit, ohlins road and track, eibach anti roll bars and lowered seats. Before this i had a k20 s1 elise, exige 350 sport and then exige 380 cup. I find the mx5 so fun on the road and capable enough on track, plus comfy when I want it to be. The one single thing I wish it did better is noise, it has basically zero induction noise and although the exhaust I have sounds nice it is no howling v6.
We fully understand why you love the ND. There is also the possibility you have the 'golden' spec.
2.0 slightly tuned engine, susp work and good tires is the only way we would ever consider to do again an ND.
(Howling V6 noise coming... probably... at the same place next Friday!)
zzkamikazezz After watching BBR's video on their NC Super 225, I'm begging them to develop Individual Throttle Bodies for the ND, for an improved induction noise and throttle response. Would be great if you had any videos of your ND on a track, to see how it can keep up with much more powerful/expensive cars on there. Or even a short acceleration video to find out what it sounds like at 7800rpm. Cheers
@@smilepermile8165 I’ve been hassling them also for ITBs lol. No news though :(
I have no idea how you can go from an S1 K20 to and ND and like the ND better but ok, horses for courses :D
For sure it's more comfortable and usable every day, I give you that, but more fun? I honestly don't believe you :D
@@GabrielePiana the k20 elise was rattly and clunky and I missed the true roadster experience if my s2000s of past. When you want a 9/10 tenths drive the k20 for sure, but the rest of the time something like a sorted nd/s2000 is great. I wish I had a little more power, maybe 240 or 250
Yes the steering does not have feel, but what else is there for the money? Small, rear drive convertible? A new Boxster or Z4 is a lot more.
We didn't say the car is bad. Or bad for the money. We just raised why that for the specific set of priorities it didn't deliver.
The Boxster and the Z4 come certainly with their own limitations.
The point we made on the recent podcast was that unfortunately small rear drive cars (coupe or convertibles) are a bit of dying breed.
Hi Rich!
Well, the first thing I'd say is. Does it matter? Ok there might be no new cars on sale at price point that are rwd, manual, convertible AND with better steering but does this make the problem any less of a problem? I'd say it makes it even worse, it's a sign that customers don't care about steering at all!
For pure fun on track, I'd buy nothing new, to answer your question. As an everyday car, I'd buy a Focus ST.
I tested an ND 2.0 back when it was launched in 2015, I took it to a parking lot and tried to drift it (Yes, I was a terrible person!).
And I might remember that the steering wasn't responding very well, and the self steer was almost non-existent.
I've since owned an NA, which means I will have to try an ND again in the future to find this out, because I want to like it. 😅
But I also agree with you about the price, especially as a swede, where ~90% of MX-5's never see snow/winter, and therefore used ND's are still priced from ~€20k, but most also has less than 50k km on the clock.
Only 60 out of our 721 ND's are 1.5's, so they are rarely seen for sale. There's one for sale at the moment for €18600, and it has done 8500km!
The na miata is one of best handling cars ever made.
Try out the NDs built after 2019 with the updated 184ps 2.0 engine. Many people are saying that the steering feel has improved on those ones.
Yep, try the 2.0 ND2 club/sport. I got mine last year with no mileage on it for 275k SEK (about 27k EUR), which I think it's totally worth, but now the prices has sky rocketed. Regarding the steering I think it's precise and responsive, and I can feel what the front tires are doing, but I'm not a race driver that's used to hydraulic steering and track cars like Lotus etc.
Btw, you're right, my MX-5 will never see Swedish winter roads, for those I'll use my old GTI. :)
We fully agree. Except drifting in public places, we've always been gentlemen.
Jokes aside, we have a good feeling that when the ND prices come even lower the aftermarket will expand further and eventually it will make for another interesting project car platform.
@@mx-5driver406 At the moment we got the "spring price" though 😄 For those really wanting a roadster right now!
Good thing I know a guy with a 30th anniversary ND RF 184hp that's being tracked, will definately ask him if i can try it!
I know I'm late on this video, but, although the electronic steering always sucks, Mazda did make an update on later models and added telescoping steering wheel adjustment to newer models (2019+ in the US at least)
So should I buy the GR86 instead?
Agree on the 2.0 choice but you definately have to go with the G184. I've driven both 1.5 and 2.0 multiple times before i bought my first 1.5 and the difference wasnt that big in the Driving Experience and the difference in price wasnt worth it. Way different with the G184. In the end the car has better fuel economy because of the different gearing and way more midrange but it's still not dead above 5500rpm like the G160 felt. Also agree on the suspension, as i said in the original Video. When i picked it up and saw it in the showroom i was calling sps to get coilovers because i couldnt stand it :)
We do recommend ideally the 184! Kostas specifically mentions exactly what you said. (Save some more money, go for the better car)
184 with coilovers and sports tire is the best ND you can get. It will still apparently have a steering feel worthy of a Scania truck, but if you can live with it, great car.
@@GabrielePiana i work 2 out of 5 days in Meuspath, i'll take the private ND next time instead of a company car and let you drive the ND2! :P
Drove and loved the NA once in the 90s... didn't buy one until 2019 though and the NC was the only gen that made sense for dairly driving and touring at a decent price. But the steering is too light and the engine doesn't love to rev like the NAs. Oh and the suspension... I run 6kg / 4.5kg with some 9s and 6s for a future track setup. 14 and 8 is crazy! Love it, but damn.
Hello Gabriele. i was pretty sure you could reach 8'20" regarding your skills and the mods. For your next car : Lotus Exige ??
For sure an under 8:20 is possible. As for what is next... you will have to revisit this channel the next Friday (or the one after)!
Frederic... thanks for the trust! Let's see what comes up next!
I have the ND 2.0 160 with the bilstein suspension and it is really comfortable, I go on a 2h drive almost every weekend and am 186cm tall and I just put cruise control 137 kph on the autobahn and just relax lol. And in curvy roads (80kph curves that turn like 90°) the suspension doesn´t feel soft at all, I can feel everything that is going on with the tires and tell how much grip I have still left ( this is important as you should never go 10/10 on public roads, 8/10 is the way to go). My summer tires where not good, good grip on dry bot not great and just AWFUL in the wet, this is my daily and I live in Germany so wet performance is king when choosing a tire, the owner before me chose some RUBBISH Toyo Proxes Tr1 tires...DON´T BUY THEM. I had Conti PremiumContact6 on a Renault Scenic 2 from 2005 and I could go faster around turns in that family boat diesel potato car with a suspension so soft, you felt like the car wantet to roll sideways xd.
In terms of space...I managed to fit with my father 200€ worth of food (A FULL shopping cart xd) and 2 BEER BOXES of 20 bottles each...WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED? Like tell me, what more do you need of a car? For the 2 times a year that you need space for fitting a sofa or a table you can just ask a relative or rent a car for a day. YOU DONT NEED AN SUV FOR A DAILY.
I have yet to go to the Nürburgring, next summer with new tires (looking at the new Conti PremiumContact7) I will surely go, this winter I will try not to get stuck haha
Not bad for a 1.5 stock engine , Big balls behind the wheel
Our boy delivers! 🔥
I wish the car was involving enough to motivate me to go further but it was not :(
In Australia we de-power the rack on the race cars. With -3 deg camber and Toyo 888 tyres it's great. Not for the carpark tho.
We did run some of our NA MX-5s with a depowered rack with great results.
The NDs electic deal though is a bit more tricky. (Still we are sure the aftermarket is going to eventually crack it)
@@OneLapHeroes especially as they start to come down in price and become more popular for track days. Always going to be tough without that physical connection. I still say get a Boxster :)
Probably that's what it needs Julian, but I never even investigated on depowering the EPS as I assume this would create several problems with ABS etc since depowering might affect sensors?
The steering in the nd is still connected to the rack its not drive by wire or anything like that. If you disconnect the fuse to the power steering you get very heavy manual steering.
Yep, definitely need a Boxster
We aren't spoiling just yet.
We highly recommend you visit next Friday or the one after.
We can guarantee you he gets what he needs! (and then some)
Julian.... I know!
Have I missed anything? Your initial assessment of the car was spot on I thought. And you were commenting as someone driving mostly on roads, with the occasional track day thrown in. Your mods are biased towards the latter and do not target most of the concerns or weak areas identified. If you intend using the car mostly on roads, you will soon realize that those were not the optimum choices. Somewhere in the implementation your focus was diluted.
They revised the power steering in the ND2, BTW.
Car seems to be underdamped(?) and understeering. Can you now tell us now what was the idea behind 14/8 springs?
Edit: ok, now I watched it till the end, still don't get it... Is motion ratio that different? Did you tried fixing something?
Sharp eye. Both points are rather correct.
For the road and tracks like the NS we'd recommend slightly different rates.
We passed all info to IL Motorsport and we are sure the final kit is going to be on point.
@@OneLapHeroes been there, done that 😆😆😆
We had a massive battle with friends regarding spring rates because I run 5/4k on my personal Impreza and we were about to order 14/12k for joint project RX8 :))
@@777MAV a man wiser than us said always go for the least spring your driver can drive. Hard cars are easy. Soft cars have grip?
Modern tires and aero are messing a bit the above statement but there is something fundamentally beautiful about soft cars with good curves under compression/ext of the susp travel.
@@OneLapHeroes that was my point, but we were with different backgrounds and had to find common ground :)
Ended up with 16/12 with helper springs that allowed more usable stroke and fixed most issues I had with the car. Now it's much faster than my Impreza around the track 😭
With wider and better tyres, but I'm still impressed with the car. I need to make Impreza great again but RX8 project is too fun and steals most of my free time :)
Underdamped yes. Understeering not really, actually a bit too much pitch sensitive but hey, small things. Eventually we were too stiff in the rear for what we needed (NS).
Gab, still impressive lap regardless of you disliking the car. This begs to ask if you have not liked MX5's from ringbanana days why did you buy one.
Your a race driver hopping out of Race BMW's , Race AMG Mercs, and GT3 Porsches of course the ND is going to feel crap.
Will be interested to see what you get next........maybe AMG F1 W10 with lights .nar steering be too iffy for Maccas drive thru.
He didn't like MX-5s BEFORE trying the RingBanana. He absolutely loved the NA.
The fact that he drives all these cars (and to an extent the same goes for the rest of the crew that has regular access to high end cars) never stopped us to from liking our NAs.
And many many other small affordable cars. We understand it is a bit hard for people to understand but Gab's problem is/was partially also that preached idea that the car is flawless and has perfect steering (which it hasn't).
Back to more important issues... Gab's next car WILL NOT disappoint... trust us!
I did not like MX5 before I drove an NA flat out. Then I was hooked and loved it! So much so that I wanted a modern one that I could live with everyday, too bad Mazda decided to fit the steering system from a tractor to it.
I disagree about race cars, most of them dont feel particularly good either to be honest, but the focus there is performance and not feel.
No matter what I drive before and after, the WHOLE POINT of the MX5 is to be fun, engaging and pure. And slow.
The slow part is the only thing they retained from the recipe.
@@GabrielePiana Congrads on your race the other day ! Well interesting to hear your comments as usual, looking forward to see what you get next !
If you have the factory bilstein
GET a H&R 30mm lowering springs and anti roll bars! Absolutely perfect combo even BBR runs their Turbo nd conversion with this set up!
Springs are €120 ARB €275
Absolutely perfect!
Perfect to go where? Common.......
@@andre82s2k even on track days! These guys runs coilovers without ARB so comeeeee onnn
Balazs we hope you understand we did a set of coilovers with our own custom spring rates (so lowering sprins and anti roll bars would be... a downgrade).
The fact that BBR offers just a mild susp upgrade on their turbo cars doesn't mean it is the optimum setup.
It is probably just a budget option that would satisfy a casual road user.
Full suspension video here:
ua-cam.com/video/xhQC15LmRSI/v-deo.html
@@OneLapHeroes My personal experience:
I bought a very first ND1 mx5 in the UK running on MaisterR zeta fully adjustable coilovers. I didn't like it at all! At high speed over 90mph the car was unstable. I even contacted to MaisterR and bought 2kg harder springs for the rear shocks...didn't help much. After I sold my ND1 BBRS190 with the MaisterR suspension. I have bought a new ND2 straight after it was available in the UK. I knew that I won't buy MaisterR suspension BUT what to get??? OHLINGS were £1000 plus... I did not want to spend...
I have ended up buying 30mm springs and ABR. The car is amazing even at 140mph! Up to 120 its literally can be one hand driven. Tonnes of confidence! I drive the same roads and I do 10 to 20mph more with this set up then what I did with my MaisterR.
My personal opinion is here:
ARB is a MUST Regardless!
And a bilstein edition always gonna be quicker on springs and ABR then any coilovers without ABR! Especially on a track like the RING!
I know 1.5 did not have bilstein option but standard ARB are just laughable...
@@balazspinter4832 We really appreciate you are sharing from personal experience and the fact you aren't just randomly commenting about something you read on a forum.
Now, theoretically the ARBs are just springs. The tire doesn't know if the wheel rate comes from the springs or the anti roll bar. If anything anti roll bars tend to disrupt a bit the independence of the two wheels on the same axle. (It is not uncommon for engineers/drivers to prefer lightweight cars without an ARB especially on the drive wheels of a RWD car).
We believe what you are experiencing is the fact that the ND2 is probably better than the ND1 and that your driving style/roads you are driving work better with the softer setup you ended up having in your ND2 by combining the lowering springs with the thicker bars.
If you could emulate the EXACT same wheel rate in a coilover setup we GUARANTEE you it would drive as good or better. Lowering springs on stock shocks very rarely lead to good things for suspension travel. Although the end result might be low enough and the ARBs might take care of the roll, it is more likely a happy accident that it worked with the stock shocks. Still we are happy to hear you are enjoying your ND!
I have to drive an ND again, and for some time... If I won't like the steering as well, my favorite MX-5 will remain the NC :P
If there was a way to make the NCs weigh under 1000kg without gutting the interior, removing aircon+ABS etc, that would be great.
@@smilepermile8165 1100 kg are still not that much, and it's easy to get at least 180 hp from the 2.0l ;)
@@frankie998 I know 1100kg isn't that much in modern day standards, but hitting that magic under-1000kg mark is a good milestone and is satisfying. Especially when you're trying to keep up with turbocharged hatchbacks. It also makes it easier to calculate the hp per tonne too. The NC's 2.0 is easy to make power out of, using BBR's Super 200 or even better, their Super 225 with ITBs.
Man, trust us. You are perfectly fine with your NC!
Still if you have the opportunity to drive the 184 2.0 we have a feeling that might be the hot ticket.
@@OneLapHeroes If I hadn't sold it 😅 I had to, and the money saved me in the worst of times... I was looking forward an ND 1.5 as the best long term daily drive MX-5, being economical as an econobox, fresh enough to last many years and kms and still engaging to drive as any MX-5 it is. The 2.0l 160 hp has unfortunately no revs (I've driven it, it's like a turbo where you hit the limiter too soon but still not that fast) and the 184 it's a new car, so very expensive and depreciating...
If I buy another NC it will have to be an FL and it will have to get the 225 BBR kit and costing more than 20k it's not very wise in my financial situation 😅
The bathroom metaphore. If gab's racing career doesn't go as hoped, he should try with poetry. Or maybe do poetry to pay for his drives.
Thats is just italian way to speak.... I'm italian to
@@andre82s2k i supposed it was a British way of saying because I've never heard it in Italian
Not all Italians speak as eloquently as our boy! Proof the 'I'm italian to' guy...
My poetry pays my racing, of course!
as an ND2 2.0 owner, i love my car but i really deeply agree what u say about the steering! maybe because i have tried other much more expensive sports car long term (such as 991 and C190 AMG GT)
the steering on the ND2 actually also that me hope the car have better steering. remember the buying mine second hand ND2, i drive for a few days and go do a alignment because it is not good already. but after doing all the things it is still not perfect that i hope. but maybe for me other advantage comes over disadvantage. but a really nice review! seriously good work~
Hello H.C.
Thanks for the comment!
Yes sadly the mods did not do anything to help the steering feel and it still feels empty and dead, no idea whats really happening grip wise, very uncomfortable at speed.
To me this ruins the car completely, but I agree it's always a tradeoff and the ND does some things well.
Speaking of steering, there'll be two steer by wire M6s in DTM this season. Hopefully they're not Mercedes otherwise that would pack up on friday
The times...
Actually, there are SBW cars running in most series now. I was talking with one of the drivers the last weekend and they reckon, in the dry they can get within 0,5 of the non SBW cars (up to you to say if that's good or not) but in the wet they have no idea what's happening in the front... fantastic! :D
I don't know what's the point of steer by wire on a touring car. I can see it being purposeful on a Can-Am if the challenge was still held
Maybe it's just the camera angle but it seems like your rear is oversprung or underdamped.
I also like you , was desapointed with the car( expected more) , so i decided to test drive a few to compare, tested the alfa giulia, Bmw M240i , 124 abarth, lotus elise , Brz and many others , somehow the Nd for me, all together still ended up being more convincing, as a cabrio , low weight , extremly low running cost , fun to drive , in my opinion even with all its flaws , the mx5 ND is the benchmark of the segment as long as the the preis is no more than 20000€
Mazda needs to make profit in order to survive for potential emergencies like the pandemic - if you expect Mazda to charge no more than €20,000, you're asking Mazda to go bankrupt, and you need a reality check.
@@smilepermile8165 of course , you are right , i meant I would to go to the used car market , where you can easily find mx5 Nd 2,0 for around 20k €
Even my own I paid 23k€ new in 2018 but its 1.5
We actually not disagree. Affordable RWD modern cars that are satisfying to drive is indeed a species close to extiction.
We made that point in the resent podcast (discussing why and how) for anyone that has the time to kill.
Long story short, yes may of the cars above don't compare (M240) some might not be for everyone (Elise) and FOR SURE we urge everyone to try as many as he can. Eventually you WILL have to compromise. Gab's beloved Lotus for example had a shitty engine and a so-so transmission. No car -at realistic budgets- really has the COMPLETE package.
@@OneLapHeroes ,thanks for the answer!, yesterday i tested a tunned124 spyder and the torque was impresive 310Nm, but somehow the steering was even lighter than the ND ..??
Hi Daniel!
I agree with you that currently the market does not offer a wide choice of affordable RWD cars. Yet, this does not help me one bit, the steering of the ND is still unacceptably bad, even after modification.
As said many times before, this for me is a total deal breaker. For others, it might be annoying but acceptable and others might not even notice.
Ohhh yes! Good job. 😂😂😂. I need more experience to. Catch you! 😂😂😂. 14/8 springs are usefull on the road?
I think 8'15" Is possible with more camber on the front.
Wath's your aligment set up?
I'm max camber front and 3° rear.
@@MX5LOVESNURBURGBS Can't wait to see you do another lap in your ND 👍 How about aerodynamics and weight reduction maybe to shorten your already fast time?
14/8 is really high! For camber, I think at a certain point you will lose stability during braking phase and in straights. I don't think it's the best option on the NS specially with our tiny tires.
@@smilepermile8165 video coming soon.. I'm in 8.26 for last session... I think to be abble to 8.23 with this set up and my abilities...
@@pailote67 the car is very stable on the break. And on the front the tires turn so. Much on the outside on it.. Really, i need 0,5° more! 😂😂😂
Why don't you put the NC steer in your ND?
It'll make a great project and also a great car.
Just putting it out there. I was busy over the weekend and could not reach out to answer all comments. Now there is 206 of them and I will answer them all. See you there!
Done.
I am not an experienced at the limit driver. I own an ND2 and can't confidently confirm or deny the steering feel due to my lack of experience. This video series has been great and the value of this can only be created with the honest feedback you provided. So much thanks again. But now, I am more suspicious about the steering and will try to do some specific tests so I can report back. Like whether my fully stock setup at 30 MPH will self center from 15, 30, and 45 off center, and by how much.
FYI, according to Keith Tanner from FlyinMiata, the 2016-2017 had an old rack that didn't have good on-center feel, the 2018+ has the newer rack that improved on this aspect in terms of geometry. source: ua-cam.com/video/q7dAIt1CDsE/v-deo.html
Hi Brent!
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Few have mentioned the change of rack but while almost everyone agrees it's "better" than the original, few have gone as far as to say it's "good".
I never tried a newer model but I have no doubt it's better, it would have been very hard to do worse to be honest. The fact that Mazda swapped racks is factual proof of how bad the one fitted to this generation was and does little to change my experience with the car.
I hope Mazda nailed it from 2018 onwards, but reading comments from ND2 owners it seems that, while better, the steering is still not "good"
does the 1.5L handle better than the 2.0L?
We can't really say without comparing back to back.
From our limited time with the 2.0 we actually believe it is the better car.
@@OneLapHeroes full bolt ons is light years better handling than a stock nd1 2.0L. Mazda should make a mazdaspeed Miata. Same with Toyota and subaru. 86 and brz with turbo would be proper. They did the yaris. Which is a slap on the face to current 86 customers 🤔
This specific ND might be better than a stock 2.0L, but pound for pound the 184 2.0L is the best version of the car.
Just out of interest did you feel the steering got lighter the faster you go? It may be improved with better air flow/downforce over the front of the car. Also too high spring rate at the front could reduce feel. Also I would have thought you need a bigger arb at the rear because stock cars are usually set up to understeer? Also thanks for ruining my ND dreams 🤣
We... apologize. But if you are really interested most def focus your search on ND2 184s and seriously consider a test drive if you feel you have similar tastes with us.
Specifically on steering feel we are going to let Gab chime in. However we can confirm is neither an aero problem or spring rate (since it was actually worse with the stock soft springs). If we had to guess we'd say is combination of front end design/geometry (not alignment) and the calibration of the electronic power assist.
Hi Tom,
To be honest the car had zero understeer as we drove it, I actually felt it could have done with a little bit more of entry stability. All the mods you mention are minimal adjustments that will make a difference especially if you have to tailor the car to a specific track but will do nothing for the steering feel.
@@GabrielePiana the more I think about it... do you know any convertible sub 1000kg with good steering feel, is it the torsional rigidity. You guys need a lotus Elise job done
I wish I could take my ND to the Nurburgring…. Want to pay to ship out and have a go at it😜?
Where there is a will, there is a way! 🤟🏻
Almond milk drinkers never lift ... bloody well done!
Coconut water. Almond milk. 98+.
@@OneLapHeroes 108 ron Coconat Water
never lift
You mentioned Chris Harris says he doesnt like the na miata, but he actually really likes the nd miata he said it in a top gear episode. He also said for public roads these lightweight low hp car are the most fun u can have on public roads because u can really push it vs a supercar u are only using half its ability n its boring in comparison. The nd miata is the most fun car ever for twisty roads, u cant beat the miata, lotus elise/exige, air cooled 911, because they are so light and small, u become the car when u drive it, every other sports car weighs more then 50% more and is much bigger. Almost every big journalist out there agrees its the most fun car u can buy new today for twisty roads and most of them own one themself, n they can afford supercars at any price n also have more expensive sports cars, but still consider the miata the most fun. Even gordon murray the creator of the mclaren f1 and christian koenigsegg in the latest top gear podcast said the miata is the most fun car ever. Try out the nc3 it has an hydraulic steering rack, stiffer suspension or nd2 which has better steering feel then nd1. I dont get ur complaint about it other then steering feel, u said u cant just drift it everywhere, which u can because I literally drift it every round about and intersection but its a nd2 2.0 so alot more power, n also u said it feels like it doesnt grip but it does. The car feels extremely grippy and pulls serious g forces even in stock form with the soft suspension, with 245 wide sticky tires, & coilovers in low speed corners it pulls similar g forces to supercars like the 911 gt3rs. I think ur problems with it are resolved with a nd2 2.0. Ive driven and own many sports cars, 911s, caymans, amgs, bmw, but nothing other then lotus elise, air cooled 911 can compete in terms of fun on public twisty roads at any price point, yes supercars are fun in there own way n still worth owning along with it but they cant replace what these small light weights can provide. I actually was never into miatas and would never consider one, I was going to buy a 991.1 911 carrera s, but decided let me also test drive the miata just for fun to see why journalists love them so much n instantly I fell in love n said screw the 911 this is way more fun to drive, the 911 is just compromised in comparison its more of a daily driver.
now that ND3 is out and they have "allegedly" fixed the steering on it, the one lap hero is the only opinion i care about. what do you think?
You could equally say the opposite - the best of both worlds rather than the worst of both worlds. Comfortable enough for a daily compared to something like a lotus but also enough performance and fun when compared to most cars in the price range (especially after you make the suspension modification). If you want a compact sporty convertible, hot hatches are excluded, so you really have only 3 choices - MX-5, Lotus or Boxster. If you want to daily drive you have 2 choices - MX-5 or Boxster. If you want a reasonable price, reliability and low maintenance and repair costs you only have one choice.
What you need is a v8 Holden ute. Fun!!! Practical.
Stay tuned... this is OLH after all. So it is always the opposite of what one might expect...
Joshua, this is my secret dream.
Awesome! What’s the top speed?
On the big Nordschleife straights... NOT ENOUGH!
Hi Will, good question! I have no idea!
@@GabrielePiana Hi, Gabrielle! I have a 2016 2.0 ND Club. Just curious.
Fascinating to see such candid analysis. Much of it hits close to home for me. I own a 30th anniversary edition, mine is #0053 which I bought when they were launched. I am not a racer. I am however an enthusiast learning the track, and do a lot of virtual racing in iRacing. So much food for though as you struggle to articulate your dissatisfaction. Especially the parts where you say the car doesn't feel special and doesn't inspire you to want to drive it. These are indeed opposite for me, and of course there are too many factors different between us that could explain the opposite feelings. I will try anyway! Your white colored car is boring. Fun colors for fun cars. My car is bright orange! So fun. You should have wrapped that thing of yours.. ;-)
Hi Charles! Thanks for the nice words!
You might be right that owning an orange one would have made it more exciting... Maybe... :D
I think it comes down to expectations, frame of reference and personal taste. Coming from a boring diesel 3 cyl polo, the ND no doubt feels fun and amazing, at least at first. But it's pitfalls are just to big for me to gloss over especially knowing that Mazda could have delivered a much better car if they decided against building a nostalgia machine.
@@GabrielePiana "nostalgia machine"!? ouch! ask my kids, and anything other than a Tesla is a nostalgia machine. ;-)
What a pity about the steering. We're waiting for the magic solution. There must be any way to reduce de assistance or even depower it. So maybe the underrated NC is the proper MX5 if you want something more modern, confortable and reliable than a NA/NB. Definitely the think that makes you fall in love with the two first generations is the steering feeling, suffering a mx5 without be able to enjoy it has no sense.
Does the ND2 has the same lack of feeling?
@@hjsckd I heard the ND2s adopt an improved electric power steering system borrowed from the Abarth 124 Spyder. I doubt it will meet Gab's expectations as he comes from a Lotus Elise and several other legit race cars. The NC would be great as a platform for a trackday toy, if only there was a way to make it weigh 100kg less so that it 'feels' like the ND
@@smilepermile8165 obiously the nc is the heavier mx5. But it’s just round 50 extra kilos respect a nb2 sportive and you share platform with the rx8 and the mzr engines are way better than de bp. Also still retaining hidraulic power stering. So with a weight reduction could be a great toy.
@@hjsckd My point is, it would be a dream to make a 2.0 NC weigh under the magic 1000kg mark. Without having to gut the interior, remove aircon, ABS, airbags etc. Have to look into spending a lot of money by using carbon fibre, titanium.
The NC is far from underrated. It shares the underpinnings with the RX-8 that we absolutely love (especially when it comes to the front end).
Still we think the two first generations absolutely nailed it in that regard so... for sure a point to the old guard.
I agree on the steering. Feel is poor but for me the rest of the package is too good.
Interesting lap - in some corners you looked as if this was the first time driving this car! (So much for EPS, at least you tried).
Mazda EPS is just not sophisticated enough to give any feedback (presumably it had to be cheap and light weight). You'd need a McLaren or similar to get anywhere near what you're after, so it was inevitable that you still don't like the car. But I completely agree with you. Steering feel is king.
So back to the drawing board...... (although you have already chosen you next car - 4WD?!!)
Hi Phil!
Consider also that I drove like 4 laps at speed with the car, in total. Actually, this is the biggest problem, I could have driven more... I should have driven more... But I could not be bothered to drive a car I had to guess the grip level off since there was no communication from the steering.
Maybe you are right, EPS are too expensive to get right, but then why did they fit one in their flagship sports car? Why couldn't they fit a regular rack they knew it worked? I don't buy the budgeting or cost effective argument. It was a choice. They decided to give it this steering because they wanted the car to feel lively and light when driving at 50/60kph to make it feel sporty and reactive.
I despise this
MIghty coincidence that RSR are just letting their last Exige go. Well, one can only hope...
For those with a sharp eye the said Lotus might have made a cameo appearance in the previous episode.
Gab does really miss his Lotus but to see what he is getting you will have to revisit next Friday (or the one after)...
Hi Anthony!
Dots being connected...
F I N A L L Y !!!!
It couldn't end in any other way!
That's what she said!
@@GabrielePiana 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Sooo, should you buy a BRZ instead?
Hi Snape!
Maybe?! The next car has been bought and will be announced in due course!
@@GabrielePiana looking forward to it!
Hmmm, I'm curious. You say (I paraphrase) "I don't like the car, you might like the car, test drive it to find out for yourself." The problem I have with that thinking is that YOU are a professional driver and (I assume) YOU test drove your car before you bought it and YOU liked it so much you bought it. So how are we amateurs supposed to evaluate a car that a professional couldn't properly evaluate until long after they bought it?
Final drive for manual 1.5l is 2.866 not 4.1 (Auto)
Which spring rates are you running?
at 12 sec in video 14kg f/8kg r
As Michael said written in the timestamp above and a full episode on suspension here:
ua-cam.com/video/xhQC15LmRSI/v-deo.html
A 140/80 spring setup is totally inappropriate for the Nordschleife. Just imagine what you could have gained with a suitable suspension ;)
There are some points that I don't understand... The ND is an expensive platform? Really? I don't see other cars (new) that for 30,000 euros provide similar contents in terms of chassis and components.
For the lack of power... I don't think it is a medical prescription to choose the 1.5 when the 2.0 easily reaches 200 hp. On a car weighing just over 1000 kg.
I think the ND can really be a track tool that keeps development and management costs down.
Ayway congratulations for the lap! 😉
Marco we think you missed a bit our point. We didn't say it is expensive (expensive to be considered in OUR project car territory maybe but still for the money plenty of car). We also DO recommend the 2.0. We specifically say that in the case of the ND that is the one to get. And we said in the respective episode that it is indeed crazy that this car (the 1.5 at least) is still under 1000kg which for a modern car is a HUGE achievement.
We also specifically say that the ND can actually be a track tool. Hence we recommend more tire and the bigger 2.0 engine. So you make a different 'car' out of it.
The problem remains that it wasn't the dual use, high excitement daily Gab wanted.
Plus the steering will still feel odd. No matter what lap time we did put down.
@@OneLapHeroes all clear!
I'm sorry I seemed controversial, it wasn't my intention. I think, however, there are too many people who snub the ND platform not aware of its potential.
In any case I'm developing my 2.0 year by year, mainly at the Ring, and I'm convinced it will give great satisfaction in terms of performance. 😊
@@marcoquaranta7906 Hope to see some BTG videos of your 2.0 ND 👍
@@smilepermile8165 we're working on it! 😉
@@marcoquaranta7906 we are happy to hear that. We are pretty certain that the 2.0 ND2 will prove a great platform for the 'Ring and the moment more people drive them/parts gets developed we are sure we will see some great lap times.
At the end of the day it is still the best engine Mazda ever put in an MX-5 in chassis that is still pure compared with most things for sale today so... there are plenty of reasons to root for the ND.
We are looking fwd to your laps as well. But most important focus on your satisfaction. As long as you are having fun with the car that is all that matters.
Next video: Miata ND alternatives...
Well... our next choice... will need multiple videos to be fully explained.
Hi Margaritis!
Well, that would be a LONG video!
ND needs a manual steering rack upgrade
So basically what i learned was, forget "upgrading" to a ND, i will just continue to improve my na8c,the original is still the best!
@M1ATA56 AMG I drive a Mx5 for the lightness and the hard to quantify pleasure of driving, i dont question the fact that the nd2 is vastly better in everything you can quantify but as a tool for "pleasure" is it real superior when one of the main attributes (steering feel) is non existant? I guess i will make my own conclusion when i try a nd2 but for now this gives me the confidence that im not missing that much sticking with the old girl
Well, we need to clarify that. Gab didn't expect the ND to be better than his Elise. His problem is that it had specific flaws even for what it was (steering being the main).
Don't forget that he owned an NA, which he absolutely loved chassis-wise and never complained about the steering.
So yes, for the OLH team NA is definitely the best Miata one could own.
(As a base to modify. Stock we wouldn't own any of the two.)
Hi there!
As far as driving pleasure, you already own the best driving MX5 ever built, especially with some mods. Not the fastest, not the most comfortable, not the easiest to live with... but the most fun, for sure.
@M1ATA56 AMG I have to agree with you on the fact that most customers would not notice the steering issue, but this says more about the consumers than the car. The fact that a bad steering system is accepted as "enough" is not something to be celebrated, it's a catastrophy, especially for a car like the MX5.
"I don't care about the opinion of a racing driver on how a car feels. You can't understand the miata even though you said you liked the NA"
Even though he OWNED an NA. And we collectively have 5-6 of thems.
And have driven all generations.
And we have/had turbo, V6 and K20 swapped variants.
Plus feedback from 3-4 different type of drivers inside our 'own' group.
Clearly not enough data.
The wrong thing is to own it apparently. Be it shared ownership!
LOL, this is how most people actually react to this. "I think it's the best, I am right hence you don't know anything"
wtf beard has gab?
Didn't stop him from drop quite a lap and that is the main reason we have him on the channel.
If you want beard I think Kostas has enough for the whole team so... we aren't sure what is this complaint!
@@OneLapHeroes I was going to say, it looks like a hard core Miata lovers gang found him asleep on a park bench and went to town on his chin with a razor!
I got mugged by MX5 enthusiasts!
@@davidmccaughan2710 Hi David! That's exactly what happened! I thought they would go for my hair, them being hairdressers and everything but no
@@GabrielePiana 🤪😅