Court Allows A Woman To Get Doctor-Assisted Suicide Over Parent's Objections
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- Опубліковано 3 кві 2024
- Case: www.canlii.org/en/ab/abkb/doc...
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All comments for information only. Do not take anything as legal advice--if you have a legal issue, contact a lawyer directly so that you can received advice tailored to your situation. All views expressed are solely those of the creator.
Anyone who has a problem with Ian for this video should know that he is deathly allergic to large cash donations.
What problem? He seems to be very even handed.
Autism alert... it is a joke.
And hot sauce, don't forget the hot sauce.
Who is Ian?
@@stephaniesamra7960 Watch the video from 0:00 to 0:03
If it were ever to come to that I will not be asking anyones "permission", the Government can prosecute my carcass.
Lol I’ve always wondered why that particular action was ever considered a crime for this very reason (who do you prosecute if it works) (edit: y’all I’m joking, calm down)
I read about a municipality that criminalized attempting sewer side in a public place. You really need to do things right the first time in that town.
Me too.
@@bartsanders1553 Pretty sure sewer side is the only 'crime' you can be charged with attempting, but not with committing.
Everyone selects one of three choices every day. They are Live, Die or Defer.
As someone with a weird neurological condition that took 45 years to diagnose followed by another 10 to stabilise, a can sympathise with this young woman and her family. There were times when I was so out of it I hadn't a clue what was going om. I had complete mental breakdowns, I was volatile , sometimes abusive to those trying to help me, sometimes incapable of even the simplest tasks. Occasionally I was functional but it never lasted very long. Now at long last after all those wasted years I can do stuff, its just a pity it took the best part of sixty years to get there.
I don't know which side of this case is in the right, maybe neither of them are. I hope for some kind of resolution that both sides can be content if not happy with.
This is such a hard one to hear. My mother in law has late stage Huntington's and wanted to have an assisted death long before she reached her current state of being unable to control her body or speech with very little ability to show her level of cognition and no verifiable way to get consent. My partner knows it was her desire, but doctors didnt and now we cant even confirm it would be something she still wants. You must be capable of making and communicating your own healthcare decisions and self-administering and ingesting medications without assistance, which shes unable to do. Additionally she doesnt qualify under the "terminal illness leading to death within 6 months" criteria, and its hard to predict life spans for anyone with Huntington's. Its hard to watch people clearly suffering and while its hard to let go, it feels cruel to prolong that for yourself, rather than for someone who's quality if life is so deteriorated. There are good days and good moments, but can they really outweigh the bad? And as a caregiver, why is that your decision to make?
ETA: Obviously this isn't the same as talking about mental illness or ASD or other neurological/developmental disorders, but my comment was sort of influenced by people who seem to think the DWD or MAiD is always immoral, even for physical conditions/illnesses. Not making any ethical or moral judgement or counter between them here.
I'm so sorry to read of what your MIL, & your entire family, are going through. It's complicated, isn't it? People should have the right to make their own decisions and die with dignity, but it has to be a flawless system or it will become ripe for ab-se. As the case in the video shows - if either side is right (the father unfairly interfering, or the daughter being allowed to do something irreversible that she can't fully consent to), then something has gone very, very wrong.
I hope that something more concrete, that allows people to plan in advance (in case circumstances arise - similar to consenting to organ donation), can be formulated and legislated so that cases like your MIL's can be resolved in a way that follows the patient's wishes.
My heart goes out to you and your family 💕
@@t-and-pit’s even worse if both sides are right.
One possible situation could be emotionally abusive parents of an adult child that is considered legally incapable, and the psychosomatic ailments being symptoms of abuse.
One right approach would be transfer to a non-abusive guardian, and see if the complained about symptoms disappear.
@@aaronbredon2948 I agree completely 👍 As soon as I saw the case, it really struck me as odd that this very private family matter is playing out in court. Doesn't convey the image of an idyllic, harmonious family dynamic, does it? Besides, along with poor family relations, there are almost always other matters at play when families are this broken, such as complex histories, allegations or instances or toxicity (one or all sided) - as well as the ab-se you rightly highlighted.
Personally, I'd also like to see what else the father has done to address this matter, alongside the court case. If he has merely tried to stop his daughter's wishes from being fulfilled, then this stinks of ab-se. However, if he's tried to push for the doctors to be investigated fully and for positive change, across the board, regarding MAiD and it's administration (eg followed actions that an average, lay individual would associate with someone who has genuine concerns), then that would strike a very different chord and relay a different mindset that is concerned with MAiD, and not the removal of his daughter's autonomy.
I just stopped my process to test for Huntingtons. I don’t think I’ll watch this one
People should be very careful making these decisions and consider that it is quite common for healthy people who become ill or disabled to change their mind about wanting to die once they realize they actually can still enjoy life. Speaking from a rare neuro condition that is slowly destroying my body.
When my late husband was dying of cancer, I wish MAID had been available to him but this was prior to the legislation passing. As it was, he deteriorated over a number of months as his pain intensified. At the end of his life, he was receiving massive doses of morphine to provide him some relief. Despite the dose he was receiving, there was very little comfort. I wouldn’t wish that level of pain on my worst enemy, let alone someone I loved.
Cool! Autism and ADHD aren’t terminal diseases!
@@madeline3868 cool! but we don't know what other comorbidities the patient is experiencing, as they weren't disclosed/havent been properly diagnosed. So just making your judgement based on the autism/adhd diagnosis is both reductive and entirely besides the point of medical privacy and autonomy at play here.
They literally said she was heathly. Except for autism and ADD.@BlackCatBritt
@@tvp1571 no, they literally said she did not consent to having her full medical history made public (as is her right). There may be other stuff in there we will never know.
Actually go to around the 19min mark and you get the medical from her real dr thay says she's healthy but for autism that requires assistance ADD and some other mi normal things. The death dr reports are tbe ones she withheld. This is a person that's most likely being influenced and needs tbe court order a independent evaluation.
Her condition is often repeated in my autism support groups. I, too, have a list of complaints that match hers. Without performing even one medical test, I was referred to a psychologist. Who then stole 20 years of my life with a bipolar diagnosis.
I have nothing good to say about any doctor I've ever seen. My bitterness is endless.
Doctor are awful with people on the spectrum. I've had some problems with my own medical care
I was diagnosed BPD and thrown on antipsychotics for thirteen years. Highest damn dose. I'm autistic and ADHD. I'm now a thousand times worse off than I was. I feel your pain
same. i'm so sorry, it's endless. almost no one who is a doctor, should actually BE a doctor imo. i feel like the incentives involved with doctor-ing end up self selecting doctors to be a-holes. it's one of the most frustrating parts of my existence.
@sillycookie1982 I'm in the same boat. Diagnosed bipolar and it was wrong and the meds messed me up awfully. Turns out I'm just a high masking autistic, adhd woman
same here. 7 years of a diagnosis that was finally only questioned when the second psychiatrist referred me to have Electro Convulsive Shock Therapy. Turns out autism and adhd. Now I'm stuck on one psych med because the withdrawals are too intense to endure regardless of even the slowest taper. Was able to get off the other meds. It's wild how many women especially are being diagnosed as Bipolar or Borderline when that isn't the problem!
UA-cam comment filters are going to make it impossible to have a reasonable discussion about this topic.
I’m autistic, I have had some relationships where the other person has had undue influence over me, I can understand where the father is coming from. I have 4 adult children, one of whom is autistic like me, I have watched them go through similar situations themselves. I have also lived with chronic pain for 3 decades now but have a happy and fulfilled life with the appropriate support. I wish for this young woman to get appropriate, neutral support here to make her own decision away from her father and her friend.
Now imagine you wake up everyday in pain for years. Nothing has helped. You can't work, have fun, have children, be with family... You don't live. Are you ready for someone to tell you, you can't choose how you want to die?
@Metonymy1979 that is not at all relevant to what OP said. They said they want the daughter to be able to make her own decision, just that we need to be sure that decision is hers and hers alone. If this friend is indeed influencing the daughter to make a decision that she might not make if the friend was not influencing her, is it really her decision?
The judge seems very even handed in this. Compliments to him and his service to the public.
I'd like to make sure I got it right. The court can not look into the father's allegations that his daughter doesn't actually fit the criteria for MAID until the MAID procedure is done? Is there no regulatory body that the father may complain to in order to make sure his daughter does or doesn't satisfy the conditions?
Yes, you got it right. The court determined that the father does not have private standing. Also, the determination of conditions is done by two (or three) doctors. It looks like the father does not have the legal right to second guess those determinations.
I think that's a good idea, some sort of board or even court-appointed medical expert, because I do agree that it isn't really for a judge to decide the validity/accuracy of a medical professional's medical assessment. I feel for the judge here
Sometimes just knowing it’s an option and having that control is enough to keep to keep going.
And sometimes it just makes people give up, and that is evil.
@@TheMasonator777 I wouldn't say it's evil. The real evil is forcing people to endure things no one should ever have to. I would never want to MAiD but I would never take that option away from someone who can't be helped. Someone who wants to go out on their own terms, before they put more pain on themselves and family than if they'd just ended it when they chose.
@@TheMasonator777 are you opposed to euthanasia for pets if they are suffering?
@@AndImsomelady-fq6cw
Sounds like they are, unless they are a hypocrite. Family's dog finally had to be put down recently and it was obvious the dog was suffering of cancer. Couldn't even run around and was struggling to even stand at times.
@@AndImsomelady-fq6cw Ah yes because dogs and people are the same thing.
Runkle,
I am writing a memorandum of law on MAiD and if it follows healthcare jurisprudence, would it be ok if I sent you an email?
I'm in the US and our version of MAiD is different, but this is for my final in my law class and seeing this pop up while I was putting off talking to my law professor was WILD
Sure, shoot me an email.
@@RunkleOfTheBailey I just sent a twitter DM because for some reason I can't find your email well! just a heads up in case you see a long wall of text in the DMs! I haven't gotten final approval yet (prof lost internet and power due to windstorms for the last week and a half), but I will put together a better message and email or DM once I get my final approval! I just want to be able to share that you have helped encourage me to follow my passions and pursue my educational and job goals! :)
This gets more and more complicated as the case file goes on. I do think it’s quite reasonable to require a different doctor to do the tie breaker vote, though. It’s quite concerning how even medical professionals seem split on this case-and they have way more information on the subject.
I feel the doctors shouldn't get a say. Every individual chooses to live or die. It's personal and I feel MV should get it if she wants it. Making the same decision and carrying it out without medical assistance is far uglier.
@@curteaton Yep, sometimes you just can't allow people to change their mind.
@@rcmrcm3370 Yep, the sum of our decisions last a lifetime.
@@curteaton Under a no doctors have a say rule, there could easily be a large queue of teenagers who have lost their first love, hammering at the door. Some desires are fleeting and recoverable, the deterrent is that it's not easy or painless. there absolutely has to be a criteria for that.
Um, no. There would have to be some longstanding documented interactions with healthcare professionals. Unfortunately the teens you describe, already find their own ways out. @@nomadpurple6154
I was impressed with the closing paragraphs. The judge really, really wanted the daughter to know that she had a right to expect her doctors to do everything they could to diagnose and treat any condition she might have. It made me believe that the judge hoped she would not avail herself of the MAiD before exhausting all other options.
I agree. I wish Runkle would've read the last 2 paragraphs in their entirety. There were quite a few instances where the Judge eloquently expressed how terrible/difficult this situation is for both sides. It was a very respectfully written decision.
So true. I really feel like the core of most issues with MAiD can kind of be boiled down to: Some doctors are kinda shit
@@steffanixoom3629to me it's knowing if the government is running a death cult... I never want to be in a hospital again.
Yep! There have been times in my life, especially when I was young and after a severe car accident, that I thought I didn’t want to live, I was in so much physical and mental pain. But over time, I was able to get good doctors and change my life. Now, I’m so glad I didn’t end it! She’s so young. I hope she can find good doctors that are willing to put in the work instead of letting her give up
@@christyannie83 Glad you are in a good place now.
Thanks for an impartial take. Lots of people here with opinions, some I agree with. But the facts and the situation of the law are worth exploring without baggage.
You are a treasure.
Agreed. Excellent analysis. Ian is a treasure!
Agree. Feel this is a frightening slippery slope😢
Question: would there have been an option for the daughter to disclose her medical info and reasoning to the judge alone? I wouldn't want my medical info to end up on public record so I get if she refused on those grounds. Similarly if she feels her dad diminishes her medical issues she might not want to give him access to her official medical info.
This is a very good question. I know that there exists the practice of filing 'under seal' in many jurisdictions, but I believe that still makes the matter available to opposing council at the very least. You cannot conduct a court of law if both sides only silently share things with the judge: how is the opposite party supposed to know what issues to argue against?
On a similar note, even IF she could file it under a maximum amount of secrecy the courts allow, would you really want to throw up your medical dossier up for argumentation? If this incident shows anything, it is that some doctors agree and others do not, so it would become trivial for opposing council to come up with experts to say 'no no, this lady has bad doctors, there is a better kind of medicine, there is a future for her, blah blah'. I think it is a can of worms that would crack open the door to having her undergo independent interviews with new rounds of doctors whose opinions are an utter mystery ahead of time, because if the court made anything clear, it is that it is not an expert on medicine and that it has to rely on the professional opinion of doctors. At present, daughter had one failed application and one successful-until-stay application. Why would she want to throw away that successful one for yet another completely independent review which may very well end up with a negative decision just because the doctors aren't aligned with her, or worse, lean towards protecting their own freedoms in the case they'd be questioned over it in such a landmark case with a litigious father? I think sharing her medical details during this time when it gains her nothing will only weaken her position, which is that she can make her own decisions, followed the legal process and was approved. Second opinions, or rather third opinions, are a completely roll of the dice for her which will no doubt come with considerable stress to boot.
That would either necessitate ruining the judges impartiality, or sharing the info with opposing council, both of which I think are no-gos. As @Aviertje states giving opposing council the info would just open up more argumentation, and ruining the judges impartiality would make the judge have to recuse themselves, or give more grounds for appeal. This judge seemed very invested in making the right choices so I think that'd be a mistake.
@@Aviertje Under seal to my understanding is judge+opposing council just not made public. Which would be a good step. But you're right. Using it will just give ammo to the dad. You'll definitely find experts claiming XYZ would help after reading a few things. Or people saying X isn't a good enough reason. Dad isn't an objective party here so chances are he'll use anything. I mean you'll see family members oppose opiates in terminal cancer patients because "they would get addicted". Though I'm not sure if it's a bad thing to have another Dr for tiebreaker. I do think it should be a requirement that the 3rd Dr hasn't seen the case before. To my knowledge it is here in NL. Dr P might very well be right and reviewed the case carefully. He's standing behind his opinion which says a lot with what is at stake for him. But you don't want to give the impression the rules have been skirted.
@@TheGodOfAllThatWas good point about the judge. I agree that dad/opposing council will use what they find to argue.
I think that even if there is, it's possible she doesn't want to on principle.
I've known autistic people who don't want to disclose medical info to doctors.
It's possible that she does have some maid worthy condition she hasn't disclosed to her parents and that they don't even know she's genuinely suffering, and also possible she's told them "I have x" and they either don't believe her or don't believe her suffering, or that she has no condition but has Google fu.
It's so hard to say, partially because she doesn't want to disclose her medical info.
That is her right but it makes these situations so hard to parse.
Tbh, I hope that whatever happens, all parties get closure eventually.
I appreciate you looking into this. As someone with MS (now arrested via treatment) these questions were something I have to think about.
Edit: At the time I was diagnosed, and a good while after there was no treatment.
There's a clinical trial called ReVIVE that sounds promising. They call it "Myelin Repair Therapy". Let's hope!
congrats! I'm so happy for you that you've found a treatment that works for you!
I have a plethora of health issues that significantly impact my quality of life. I am conflicted with this case, especially since I have both of MV’s diagnoses and several others. I think it’s very important to bring these issues to light, as it may help doctors, courts and patients make decisions that are better informed. It’s so interesting to look into, and I’m personally grateful you covered this. It’s also a hot topic where I live. My grandmother suffered unbearably after my father blocked my grandmother’s use of our Euthanasia program here. She couldn’t even eat by herself let alone walk or talk or experience anything other than pain. Her life as she wrote, was unbearable at the end. And that’s how she will have remembered by father. Assisted death is a contentious issue but needs to be addressed. A very interesting case. ❤️
I wouldn't be surprised if MV has an autoimmune condition that has not been diagnosed. The medical and scientific community is still pretty early into researching (heck, even acknowledging) autoimmune conditions, and they're notoriously hard to diagnose because all your labs, muscle testing, etc can come back normal (they don't even really know what they're looking for).
As far as "she was vague with her symptoms", she has a social communication disorder, so she might not have the right language to describe what she is experiencing.
The reality is, what her parents want doesn't matter, she is a legally competent adult; what matters is if she legally qualifies for MAiD. She keeps getting split votes, so that likely means there IS something in her medical chart that would make her eligible, but it sounds like there is disagreement among the doctors if that thing was enough or not. I personally don't think Dr. P should have been allowed to be a tie-breaker because he has previously assessed MV.
According to the physician that diagnosed her with Autism, they found she is not intellectually impaired, so it stands to reason she knows what she is doing and understands the gravity of it. It will be interesting to see where this case goes. I work in a hospital and see the power and ethics struggles play out all the time when a patient wants one thing, and the family wants something else; it's exhausting for everyone involved.
You are spot on, I think! ❤
As someone who has dealt with rheumatoid arthritis since the age of 18, I appreciate your sensitivity and compassion. We don’t have a standardized system in the US, and for me personally, I don’t think I would be a “consumer” of it…yet. But as I have crossed the threshold of 50, every little bump in the road of health is magnified and extended. We need to have the conversations.
I don’t mind the longer videos. I enjoy watching them and learning a lot about Canadian law.
As someone with a sibling who has an inherited, debilitating condition, I can say that parents don't necessarily know jackshit about their children's wellbeing.
No seriously. By the time im 40 I will be in horrific pain EVERY DAY. I refuse to live a life like that. I completely unstand why she wanted to go peacefully.
Yes, we see this everyday with a relative who has a major chronic extremely painful condition. The parents have no way of understanding that pain, and they should have zero say about the person’s life choices.
I have constant chronic pain and it’s hard to tell, because like. What am I meant to do? Scream and cry all the time? That’d just be performative, it’s just so much energy to emote, and I don’t like to cry to begin with. On my bad pain days from an outside perspective it just looks like depression. I also don’t “look” disabled, unless I’m actively using my cane (which I only use part time, usually I use knee braces which are hidden under my pants, so not visible).
I'm very worried about the doctors or friend possibly taking advantage of a woman with mental disorders. There are a lot of cases where someone with a vulnerable mental state can be pushed into making very damaging decisions.
If the father is right about the woman being vulnerable, then letting this happen would be a travesty.
If the father is wrong, then yes, it is her decision, but I am still suspicious of the medical center for placing a doctor with a preconceived notion of the outcome as the "third tie breaker."
For context, I am someone with an invisible illness that has caused a lot of issues in the past. School harassing my parents because I was sick too often, difficulty finding work for myself, doctors insisting on redoing testing to verify past diagnoses because "you're too young to have that," etc. I understand fully wanting to cut things short as medical issues become too enormous to handle. But I also very, very much fear that people who can live a happy life are being persuaded into giving up by doctors and activists who want them to disappear rather than spend the time in making life better.
@@TheElf_Onlinesame. I’ve been diagnosed with one chronic pain condition for 12 years and just got another diagnosis this year. People, when they found out, often tell me they have no idea I’m in constant pain. It’s why medical autonomy is so important.
Posting the comment at 13:50, might edit after the video goes on more. (Sorry it's so long, but I have THOUGHTS)
(Hey, look at this, an edit!: )
EDIT: Being a woman in any healthcare system with already neurodivergent records such as ASD and/or ADHD, things with internal or pain symptoms go so SO massively underdiagnosed, so much gets blamed on just those things and everything else gets ignored. It's either all in our head or psychosomatic, or related to a diagnosis we already have and the search stops there. Or if what we are there to ask about isn't currently happening during that appointment then it must be made up or fake or imagined. And some parents of some with ASD, by nature of the way they treat them while growing up and/or react to them sharing discomfort, lock themselves out of their child's "inner circle" of sharing information. He might not be the safe place for her to discuss those major symptoms, especially if he dismisses them because she "Looks fine" or "It's just the autism". (Another assumption, but a common enough occurrence it bears noting). People will ignore many other symptoms and diagnosis because of previous mental health things. They are already so biased against people with ASD, to infantilize them this way when she was apparently competent enough to search this out and complete it on her own... Would be interesting to know why Dr. G denied her (not me, but for the court or another assessing doctor who is not associated with the case already). I would 100% believe that MV could be bringing up things with her doctors or parents and being ignored or getting no solid answers outside of "suck it up" or "it's all in your head" or "You'll be fine in the morning" and being so disheartened that she went looking for MAiD since there are no other solutions being presented if they exist at all since some diseases or prognosis don't actually have cures just attempts at management. You don't stumble on that by accident and get people to approve you, not the least in two separate occasions.
One thing about this that is hard for me is that stopping the MAiD probably won't stop her from dying. Without using too triggering language, people who are looking for ways to k*ll themselves will do so and generally don't look for permission from others. And since MV is an adult, I feel the infantilising about her not being able or of sound enough mind to do this as though Doctors are just out here assisting with su*c*de willynilly and with careless disregard for the mental capacity of the patients. The father doesn't want his child to die, what good parent would, it's understandable that he would probably be opposed to this. However, his opposition doesn't mean she won't still find a way if he succeeds with his petition to force her to live, and it will only create more of a divide between him and her. Especially if her reasons for not disclosing the medical information has to do with disclosing it would be giving it to her father who may not have access or information about that ON PURPOSE. There would be no way to disclose that to the judge without opposing counsel getting access to it and it being public record. If she wanted to take her diagnosis with her and just pass on with dignity, sharing all of that would be counterintuitive and/or cause more problems than sharing is worth. (That is assumption on my part, but basically I understand why she might not want to share that info with her father is he is already doing this and saying she isn't competent to make her own decisions). If she really wants to die, getting injunctions aren't going to stop her, it will just adjust the methods and means and create resentment between her and her parents.
So the doctor is still “independent” if they are a beneficiary as long as they “don’t know or believe” that they are? That seems problematic considering who would be available to answer questions about that.
I think they mean "independent" in the sense of it not having an influence on their decision. But...a requirement that if they're a surprise beneficiary, the money gets donated ASAP, to an organization relevant to the patient and that the doctor is not affiliated with, seems like a useful additional guardrail.
That is pretty odd
The father may find that he will lose his daughter either way as, if he gets his way and blocks this, she may decide to no longer want anything to do with him anymore. As someone who is neurodivergent, it is extremely frustrating when someone uses that neurodiversity to say that we cannot make decisions for ourselves.
Okay but she is still alive and there is a possibility of reconciliation vs her being dead removing all possible future contact and interventions.
A new buzz word every month... this is one I'm thoroughly tired of
@@goodolearkygal5746 welcome to human languages, we invent new words and stop using others all the time, that's not likely to change anytime soon, sorry if that annoys you
@@goodolearkygal5746AMEN
@@goodolearkygal5746 The terms neurodivergent and neurodiversity have been in use since 1998 and are not "buzz words" as you put them.
By far, the strangest and best "this is a Wendy's," I've heard yet.😂
Guessing you didn't listen to Uncivil Law's SCOTUS case coverage where the "This is a Wendy's" meme was actually used in oral arguments?
It hit different forsure lol
@@Nareimooncatt No, but I will this weekend
@@bartsanders1553 Since linking may get this comment deleted, you'll need to get to it yourself. It was a live stream titled, "Social Media Censorship, NetChoice LLC v. Paxton, Attorney Reacts," streamed March 19th. The fun starts at 1:37:50 when Kurt makes the mistake of reading ahead in the transcript.
Thanks for going over this one and being as impartial as you could be here. Sadly I had a friend that wanted to go the MAID process and found how difficult it was and how long it would take so he took the matter into his own hands.
😢 I'm so sorry for your loss.
@@SamiG1983 he was in pain. I just wish he did not have to go the way he did.
Very refreshing to hear about a court that's concerned about not undermining public confidence in it's authority
But maybe they just didn't want a win for anyone. But probably a little win.
They all say that
the tiebreaker doc situation reminds me of my mandatory test into the Brazilian army when I turned 18, specifically sight test
Sargent: cover you eye
me: which eye
Sgt: ANY F-ING ONE
me: *covers left eye*
Sgt: now read the first line (the huge font one)
me: H, J, K, B...
Sgt: ok now cover the other one
me: *switches hands*
Sgt: now read the same line
me: ?!?!!, H, J, K, B?
Sgt: great you can go
I think your breakdown was remarkably unbiased. We ALL have a bias, it’s quite hard to be measured and balanced.
In Colorado's MAiD program, there have been a pretty small number of cases (under 100) and there have already been two cases where the wrong person received a partial dose of the life-ending medication.
I think the bigger question is that case is “what is going on in Colorados healthcare if you have a 2% error with administering high risk medications?
@@sallycinnamon5370Not sure about the other one, but for one of the cases it went as follows: they dispensed the medication to the patient to take at home, the patient had a family over, mixed his medication into a drink as per instructions, and drank it. He said it burned, and a relative took a sip to see for themselves. The relative survived with medical attention, the patient passed as intended since he had a DNR and all his paperwork done to prevent lifesaving measures.
@@eepinwillow That might be Darwin at work. Who takes a sip of someone’s literal poisonous cocktail?
Also seems like a relatively easy fix…don’t send it home with people. Here we have nurses that travel on location to dispense with a doctor. I think we do IV administration of medicine though.
@@eepinwillowLMAO
You are a Canadian HERO IAN keep up the good work. Keep on keeping on.
In Australia your family can stop your organs being donated after you die. My parents are religious and I am the opposite, as is my de facto partner. I have always been afraid my parents might try to stop my donation. The story here reminds me of issues my sister has had with her health. Thanks Runkle, I have a bit more comfort I may have my wishes granted.
Why would being religious make them against organ donation? I'm Christian and I don't care what happens to my body after I die. After my soul is gone my body just becomes stuff. A thing. I would assume a lot of my stuff would be donated to 2nd hand stores. It might be more emotional but it's similar except that that stuff can save lives.
Maybe look into legal options on this, like someone else as a power of attorney once you become incapacitated (eg on a ventilator) or wouldn't getting a legal document (ie marriage) with your de facto partner then exclude your parents wishes?
@@nomadpurple6154 I don’t want to get married. So you’re right, I am best to get legal advice.
@@thechosenone9769 my parents have some very interesting beliefs. I don’t always know why they think the things they do, but they have been controlling my whole life.
@@thechosenone9769other sects have rules against cutting the body as it's believed that the damage to the body hurys the soul and its ability to go to there afterlife
This is an interesting topic for many reasons. I commend you for the impartial way you handled it.
This shows a completely different light on this issue than has been shown to the casual news digesting public in the US. Even those of us that purposefully seek out sources on both sides even casually. It's good to know that there is a seriousness by the government even if it shows the breakdown that can happen in every bureaucracy.
My niece passed by assisted end of life. Very peaceful, very calm, dignified. She had a braintumor and would never recover. I actually wish this calm and dignified a passing to everyone. And as much as people might hate it, i think everyone - AFTER trying to find proff. help and do all they can, including medications and such, and still tired of life, i think they should be allowed to pass on. because they will find a way, with horrid consequences, and involving more people in horrid accidents or worse. If all has been tried, and they still exhausted and tired, give them the dignity to pass on, as much as it hurts. For the person in question it be freedom. Mental health is just as important as Physical health. I tell you, people that are exhausted of life, will find a way... courts or no courts.
Equating most cases of "mental health" with a terminal brain tumour shows how morally bereft your analysis is.
@@JT-bc5cd It was a personal story to show i am familiar with the end of life choice that is offered and my stance on things. I stand by every word. I am sorry my explanation was not more clear enough.
Sad to hear your niece succumbed to the tumour, but happy to hear her last moments were made as pleasant as possible. I hope that you and her enjoyed spending that time together on her terms.
This is one of the reasons I'm in favour of MAID too. We can talk all day about what a government or healthcare system *should* have done for a person throughout their life. But right then and there, that person is suffering. And it may be too late to help them. Why not avoid humiliating them further? Also, what about financial matters? I know that if I were to ever become terminally ill, I'd rather my life savings be passed on to the people I love instead of being wasted, against my will, to torture me. That would be a hell of a legacy to leave for my loved ones!
,,,because you're too cowardly to give a morphine overdose yourself.
@@user72974 She went very soft and floated to where ever we go. No stress, of course after was sadness, thats normal, but also glad her suffering would be spared. All in all, she had great medical staff helping, her wife close, family, and yes - i would like that way also when my time. For me not soon by a long shot. Too much things to do :)
I'm only a few minutes into the video, but when I saw the title I already had an opinion on this topic. I may add additional thoughts once I've seen the video in full.
In general I am in favour of a person's right to die with medical assistance; I've seen both of my parents slowly die from cancer, and it's not pleasant for anyone, neither the patient, nor the relatives and friends. Dying is often pretty ugly, painful and unpleasant; I didn't want that for my parents and I certainly don't want that for myself.
I myself have diagnosed psychiatric disorders, and autism. Even if Doctor assisted self termination were legal in my country (UK, it isn't) it's a very grey area when it comes to mental illnesses. IMO one can be mentally ill, but still be of sound mind to make such a decision. It's a case by case basis. If someone really wants to die, which is to escape the pain they live with, they can and will do it themselves if necessary.
The law preventing a peaceful dignified death only leads to people taking it upon themselves to do it, and unfortunately that can lead to trauma to others (i.e a train driver etc.) It's certainly a very complicated topic, but if one day I decide to terminate myself there's no law that can stop me, I make my own decisions, not the courts, and I should be allowed to do so.
Agree. It’s a simple case of bodily autonomy. We’re lucky to live in a time that this can be done medically, humanely, but we have a lot of emotional growth to do before people let go of some very outdated ideas.
@@kilgore_trout_37Indeed, we do it for pets every day, but not for humans... Mental disorders certainly make things very complicated, but I firmly believe it should be on a case by case basis, not just a blanket ban on anyone with a psychiatric disorder.
Yeah we have the right to make bad medical decisions in the UK, we can decline treatment even if what we're declining is lifesaving and simple (like you can obviously decline chemo/operations etc, but you can also decline antibiotics knowing that you'll end up with sepsis and will die from it). As much as I understand that legislating right to die is hard I think they should put something in place when we know people are effectively making that choice but thought more painful means.
Agreed!
@@robertl426 I heard the heartbreaking story of what AronRa went through with is young granddaughter. He talked about what cancer treatment was like, what watching a four year struggle to breathe did to a person, and watching his pain as he recalled what it was like to have to wait for the end. The venom with which he said we treat dogs better than people is something that I'll always remember.
I'm just afraid that the people that want to dictate for others how to live and end their lives have never seen true suffering. I wouldn't wish it on anyone but they really need to open their eyes.
A very tough situation. I have no confidence whatsoever in Alberta Health, having dealt with them regarding my aged parents who live in Calgary. As the court notes, self-administered death is fraught with undersirable outcomes, and the "luxury" of the able-bodied.
Im a very live and let live person but it seems like there is a lot of grey area in this one. Im amazed that the court overturned it. We’ve come a long way from Sue Rodriguez
@@AmyRuby They punted it to the appeal court.
@@gordonv.cormack3216yeah this is rife for going all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada especially with the limited case law. It does feel like there is negligence by Alberta health. I get that there are wrinkles but there needs to be some kind of measure here. Like with other illnesses/mental health issues there is criteria for a diagnosis that weigh the nuance. Why is there that much ambiguity here? I feel this needs some fleshing out.
Wow! Excellent job presenting this very sensitive case Ian!
As an adult she is free to make her own decision. Period.
This is really sad. Thanks for covering this Ian.
Love your sensitivity & explanation
It is so much fun having you explaining legal matters from a common law point of view. The German law system has the same legal matters to review, and they oftentimes come to similar results, but the way they got there are different. In this situation, it was mainly the idea of Standing.
You dont need a dr to end it. I dont understand the court battle.
Because most people (especially women) don't succeed at it.
Some time ago there was an assisted life ending video from Switzerland online. It was incredibly peaceful. He family was around him, and while they were sad they supported him (he was elderly and had been diagnosed with cancer I believe) after speaking his last words with each of his children he sat quietly singing his favorite song as they started his infusion and he basically fell asleep. There was no pain, no rejection of the vehicle of ending, no mess just a peaceful quiet last breath.
The other way with family and love ones not knowing and finding the results of this can be devastating. Even if the person said his last goodbyes without the receiver knowing this is the last they don’t get the closure. Not to mention the route the individual might take to achieve the end and where. Also, there have been incidents of them not completing the deed correctly causing horrible pain and suffering. So, maybe you don’t need permission, but having the option of doing it cleanly and comfortably would be much better. In my opinion anyway.
You do these very well. Much respect for all you do for us. ❤
I have multiple medical issues and deal with SI and have tried to end it but failed. Im in 24/7 pain and cant keep a job because I get so sick. If i get any sicker if MAiD were available for me i would provide take it. Knowing ill never get better is hard to live with and my problems arent curable and will get worse as time goes on.
wishing I could help
Parents don't get a say when your an adult...
This topic is near and dear to my heart.
Heartbreaking- regardless of one’s feelings about this law, the circumstances are tragic.
Your long, weedy videos are my favorite. You were my quesadilla-making companion today.
This is a very heavy issue. I'm not smart enough to solve it, and I don't envy the people who have to. All I can say is I wish peace to both parents and daughter, however this turns out. This is one where somebody suffers no matter what, and I sympathize heavily.
For me, there is obviously the question of Dr. P being chosen in a tie breaker. I also have questions regarding the daughter’s “friend” and how long they have been close.
There is, quite naturally, a lot of similarities with Canada and U.K. laws but we don’t yet have any assisted dying laws quite yet. There are a few people fighting for this to be changed at the moment but others have tried in the past and failed. Sweden seems to be the nearest option for us at the moment but the cost can be prohibitive for many and not having family nearby must be an added burden.
The only person that can make such a massive decision is the person themselves not courts not relatives unless you live with extreme pain, and have to live a life filled with suffering you have no freaking clue.
This is such a slippery slope that is too deep for me. I can see instances such as terminal cancer, ALS, or something like that, but as for mental illness, I’m not so sure.
I think people intent on dying usually find a way. Does her father really want to find her dead of an overdose, maybe in an alley somewhere? She's an adult, it's her decision to make and if the courts don't want to adjudicate disputes (ie let's leave it to the doctors) then I also think there should be no criminal liability insofar as those doctor's assessments / quorum are concerned.
And many I them change their mind because when it comes to do it themselves they realize they don't want it while with assisted euthanasia it isn't the case.
@@elenabob4953 In my view it’s still their decision to make. The no going back if you change your mind is a consequence of doing it legally, so you’d better be sure.
@@elenabob4953the problem is that medically assisted death is usually done for health issues that leave the person suffering with no quality of life or are actively dying already. These aren't people that are physically capable of doing it on their own. These aren't healthy people, sometimes people get better but not everyone has that luxury. These kinds of decisions should happen between them, their doctors and their families. The government needs to keep their nose out of someone's bodily autonomy.
Even with missing information this is so gut wrenching for both parties from so many perspectives. I so appreciate you taking the time to distill it down.
This has been very helpful as I have been researching the MAiD program as well, very informative and entertaining as always
Hey ! I'm in Calgary I knew you were Canadian but didn't know you were so close ! Thanks for all you do and for sharing your experiences and knowledge !
for a second I saw "over patients objections" 0_0
after the maya trial, and the "medical community" reaction...I wasn't even surprised!
Thank God for this loving father trying to fight for his daughters life ❤🙏
Autonomy.
When it is my time I
Hope to
Be so brave.
A person's life is their own to do with as they wish. Period.
I wish my brother had this option so he didn't have to die alone and afraid.
Runkle please also consider that in the US at least there have been many studies showing that women are chronically undertreated and not acknowledged or taken as seriously when they report chronic/severe pain. this is another issue that must be taken into consideration.
One more issue - this is an issue for the legislature not the courts. The legislature needs to clarify who can produce the three opinions and if each person must be independent etc. It is a fact of medicine that a doctor’s decision regarding this issue may *change* over time. The court seems to be viewing these opinions as unchanging and absolute - with the ludicrous language of “tie breakers” - when of course a doctor might say “yes” in the future or “no” when evaluating the patient’s condition yet again after time and perhaps response or lack thereof to treatment. Father has zero stand8ng.
@@AleisterCrowleyMagus The doctor could change their opnion, but why muddy the waters? It would just open the doctor(s) up for suits of them not being independent and having pre-determined their diagnosis. Because while I think a doctor might change their mind from no to yes. I find it hard to believe that if a doctor already decided yes, they're going to be able to objectively look at it again and say no. That could also open them up to litigation. "You approved before, and now you don't approve. So the person got better, despite them being the same/worse? Which is it? Did you give bad approval before when you shouldn't have or are you doing it now?" I just don't really see an upside for having a doctor do a second appraisal of a person they've seen for this program.
@xellosspoo o have to agree it just seems like a bad idea to risk muddling the waters. The doctor has too much to lose if they admit wrong doing
Looked it up because I wanted to know what I was getting into before finishing. Her only known diagnoses are autism and ADHD? This whole situation makes me very sad.
Yes, and only because the father is trying to use those diagnoses to prove she's not competent because of it. People have asked her which diagnosis she has that would qualify and she said it's nobody's business but hers. She specifically pointed out that it's not his in particular.
@@b.w.6535She made it tye government's business when she applied for government assistance.
Some people have other things associated with their ADHD or autism. Her sensory issues may make life impossible or have ARFID associated with autism as well. Autism/ADHD combo means she 100% has anxiety as well. Just because shebonly has one dx doesnt mean thats all thats wrong with her. Autism specifically can maks being touched or touching things horribly painful.
That is not a reason to euthanize people. The level of insanity masked under "empathy" had reached sky high levels.
I'm afraid that Doctors, over the very recent history (say, since 2020!) have proved themselves to be thoroughly morally bankrupt. That any doctor could recommend such a procedure to this woman just further cements their debased reputation in my mind.
My father died on his own terms in October. I wish he would've been able to die with dignity instead of what he ended up doing. I would have been better for everyone if he had been able to have family come to say goodbye.
My brother also chose his own terms..he had terminal cancer..the family didn’t get to be with him.. bc of legal reasons..he died alone..
The government murdered my father right in front of me. February 11,2020. I never even knew what they were doing. RIP Pops. 💔
Tough one. Huge precedent potential. Good job explaining it
I remember discussing this issue with my friends when MAiD first was introduced. While we didn’t fully agree on all aspects, we all concluded that this is super controversial and contentious in and of itself, and is truly on a case by case basis. I hope that the daughter can get the help she needs, and the parents can be included in the process so long as they do not try to trespass upon her autonomy. This case and the many like it really truly breaks my heart, that we cannot offer the help that so many people need with our current medical care.
i love your longer videos! I listen when I’m doing things around the house or driving to work and I love zoning out and zoning into a topic with you!
So… if the daughter were to go through with this action, would her parents be able to access the medical records that were previously denied access to? Or do they remain privileged information after her passing?
The Navigator and process of selecting the proctors to assess MAiD might also be a venue.
If they're in the US, that information is still protected under HIPAA. Most countries have similar laws about health information.
@@AdamantErinyes they're in Canada...
If they are the executor of her estate then yes they can. If their is no assigned executor then next of kin is default executor.
I really appreciate you covering this case and bringing it to light to those of us not in Canada (I'm Australian and don't follow mainstream media hence relying on YT). This is a topic I've always had a strong interest in, probably because I've had severe mental health struggles my whole life and resorted to the DIY version of MAID a few times, and also watching too many loved ones suffer in their old age, loved ones who suffered through terminal cancer, etc.. and even though none of them expressed wanting an option like MAID (I don't even know if we have it in my state here so I'll be googling after this), I'm guessing there are a lot of people out there who would opt for it.
It is a very difficult topic and brings with it a whole messy lot of ethical dilemmas for sure. Like mental health being an acceptable justification to be approved - personally I would want that available IF I needed it, but where do you draw the line and categorise the array of mental health illnesses/disorders and neurodevelopmental disorders into 'acceptable reason' and 'not acceptable' for MAID, you know? So I get how difficult this is to navigate and this case is definitely one for us to all think about. Hope you continue to update us on it.
I don't know how I feel about this case.. I oscillate between being biased and empathising with her decision, and then having concerns about how she came to this decision in the first place (and her actual diagnoses). I hope this doesn't offend anyone and come across poorly, but I've known several people on the autism spectrum and while each person is so different from each other, the ones who have it tougher function-wise seem to have one thing in common - they can be quite easily influenced and are impressionable and then can fixate on a belief or idea as a result. When you mentioned this woman's friend being supportive of her decision, I wanted to know more. Also if she hasn't ever had a job and still lives with her parents (no shame in those things at all), does that limit her perspectives and all the things we learn and allow us to question our own beliefs in an open minded way? Not sure if I'm explaining that well but basically I'm worried because of my own experiences with mental health issues that haven't eased with age (they got worse, yay!), being diagnosed with ADHD in my 30s, having Ehlers Danlos Syndrome which is now a physical hell in itself the older I get, being in relationships which made me realise how easily manipulated and gaslighted, and how almost addictive or obsessive it can be once you start getting into the mindset of wanting to end your life.. then reflecting back and kind of being glad you didn't act on it or succeed, even if you still aren't happy or still suffer daily, there are things that make the battle worth it.
Dignity was absolutely denied. No matter wherever they end up. This should not have ended in court.
Absolutely. This is a matter of intimate, private talk and not court.
The fact the daughter is still living with her parents and always has been and is not capable of being independent is a big issue when combined with the fact she has no physical ailments, should disqualify her from making the decision for maid. This phase will probably pass given time but if maid is approved she will not have that time. This is too serious a decision to be taken so lightly as to take the life of a person who is mentally challenged and physically well. Her case should be seen as if she were a minor because she is adult only by her age not her mental capacity.
I bet you she has an undiagnosed connective tissue disorder because they are often comorbid with ASD and include all the symptoms that are listed in the lawsuit. But, medical professionals are not taught about them being comorbid with Autism, so the conditions can cause pain, malnutrition, or death before being diagnosed.
I bet you she has nothing wrong with her
"At WV's request and with the consent of MV and AHS, this decision is stayed for 30 days..."
This wording seems notable to me. I can understand why AHS would consent to this, but why would MV consent to a stay of this decision? What would happen if she didn't consent to it? Would the ruling have been different, or would there simply be no 30 day window for the appeal?
Perhaps because she is so set in her decision and this was a compromise to allow her father to exhaust the legal options. Knowing she wants to die and is planning to die, what harm would waiting those 30 days do regardless of the outcome. It also presents the standing that she will not use the MAiD before her father gets a chance to appeal since that would make it a moot point.
Thanks Runkle … I love the long videos! This was informative and is an interesting and important case… cheers!
It would seem it's Alberta medical administration would face risk for lack of independence by allowing Dr. P, more than Dr. P himself.
I've been getting traumatized daily for 20years with chronic pain and nausea caused by gastroparesis. It gets absolutely unbearable for days on end with bad episodes. I just have to keep in mind that eventually I'll have a good day where I'm only sick for a few hours. Sometimes I'm lucky if I can get 6 hours of sleep in 15min naps in a whole week. Being kept awake by severe pain and nausea that does not go away. That's true suffering. Feeling sorry for yourself isn't a good enough reason to end everything.
Many years ago there was a movie starring Richard Dreyfuss on the right to die called Who's Life Is It Anyway.
A very important case. Please keep us posted
MAD is primary a treatment for Depression. While there can be fundamental underlining conditions which would justify such an extreme measure. The idea that the court should not be involved in matter of life and death raises a different issue.
The case was presented fairly and with tact, I don't see the UA-cam sensors having a problem with it.
This is so unethical people with just mental issues this will open up a huge problem where if your mentally ill you can be eligible to euthanasia what is going on and yes the courts need to make sure there is clear evidence must be given to courts to ensure guidelines are met
Thanks for putting the most important point right at the top: she's an adult.
If she was a minor and this even made it into a court room I'd have *very strong* opinions about that all by it self without even having to consider my opinions on the question being considered. That said, given she's an adult, the question of how much weight a court should put in the father's position is a different things I have opinions on (with a lot more qualifiers than the prior hypothetical), also independent of the initial question.
I also have opinions about the initial question, but they are probably independent of this specific case.
Her being an adult is irrelevant if she's proven to be incapable of making decisions on her own.
@@colleagueriley860 That "if she's proven to be incapable of making decisions" is one of the "a lot more qualifiers" I mentioned.
My point is more that my default position, assuming no "interesting" consideration, on who gets final say in the choices in someone's life basically stems from the question of if they are a legal adult.
@@colleagueriley860making a decision you don't like is still making a decision.
I think that the problem for me is that there is a person assigning the doctors who have already evaluated them. Are there only 3 doctors who can do the evaluations? If not, they should assign another doctor who hasn't previously seen the patient. Dr P's evaluation should be not considered and a true uninvolved 3rd party doctor should become the new tie-breaker.
So if this goes through, could the father (also?) sue the administrator who assigned the doctor (who they could apparently see had previously approved the daughter) for wrongful death? That they were effectively the one assigning an partial doctor who they could see would approve.
Dr P only has to be indepent and objective. The issue is realy whether the "Navigator" knew Dr P's previous assement when assigning him/allowing him to be the decider as, if he knew, he wasn't objective. I see no reason to believe that he knew the previous assesment but it's certainly possible.
For Dr. P. Runkles analogy with a judge at trial and bail hearing is inappropriate because those are two different decisions from two different roles whereas Dr. P was effectively asked the same question twice in the same role. Dr P has to be independent of MV not independent of himself.
Doctor P didn't have a relationship with her other than a medical assessment. That was their job.
What if something's changed in the interim? Their past assessement may blind them to the fact that they should reach a different conclusion now. As Ian pointed out, this is the very reason why a judge who decided "person X is not credible" in a bail hearing cannot hear X's case - the case may prove X credible, and that judge could easily be blind to the change in circumstance.
I'm a bit conflicted on the underlying issue as well. "Luckily", there is a serious clerical problem that I can focus my attention on and say "yeah, that was seriously wrong and they should re-do the maid approvals".
Runkle I don’t understand how this father has any standing period if he is not a court appointed guardian or similar. An adult has a right to govern their own body - if she has been determined to be of sound mind etc and the father or someone else isn’t a court appointed guardian then how *anyone* can force a person to live vs their own decision is beyond me. The bigger issues (say avoiding health insurance telling people to get E instead of seeking health care) should not be a burden placed on this one particular person’s case as this case won’t apply to those anyway.
It's explained briefly early on in the video and at length around 44 minutes. Have you considered watching the video?
@@iancurrie8844Have you considered people comment as they are in the process of watching? Not everyone waits until the end to comment. Additionally, not everyone stays glued to their device while UA-cam is playing so they may miss important details as they go to the bathroom, get a snack, talk to their family for a bit, etc? Finally, thanks for referencing where in the video this persons question was addressed.
@@N_It4Fun Posting to ask for information that's in the video before watching the video is rather silly.
@@N_It4Fun Sounds like a personal problem.
Thanks for the in-depth discussion on the issue. People should know, and think carefully about it, pros and cons.
I'm finding it difficult to believe AHS is more concerned with the betterment of our health than they are with their own political clout.
"I don't ban people for much, but I'll ban you for that." Ian in Dad mode!
Would like to know if there are other reasons for the father's wishes, if the daughter is living at home, if her father is her caregiver, or receives income or tax benefits for her care. Being her guardian, her parents may be dependent on her income.
The Government is Canada has pretended to not be a country like East Germany or China for a long time now. These aren't rights, these are IMO, a gross distortion of them.
My concern here is what relationship the parents actually have with their child. Maybe it's my abusive childhood and health issues, but I could 100% see it being a young woman whose care needs would trap her in an intolerable home she can't escape. Or her dad truly loves her and is desperately fighting for his child. Guess that's the issue with these things huh, you can't know
Honestly it's their life and their decision, not their parents and that's the way it SHOULD be when you are a grown ass adult.
I'm an autistic woman with a variety of strange medical issues and who really struggles with the whole "being alive and suffering" thing. The last specialist I saw to try to figure out one of the mystery situations made an amusing comment while reviewing my medical file that it was remarkable, given how much I had going on, that I had so few hospital admissions. My medical file is approaching Game of Thrones length, so... Yeah, accurate haha. (Also, that specialist did not manage to diagnose the mystery situation I went to her about, but after a raft of tests she did diagnose me with three other unrelated things that hadn't been found previously. I collect diagnoses like they're freaking trading cards.)
This case is certainly interesting and important. I can see the daughter wanting it legitimately, but I can also see how there is a genuine question about whether it is a legitimate application of MAiD. I'm glad I'm not in the shoes of any of the medical, administrative, or judicial folks involved in it - it's a tough one.
I feel this so much. I'm 40 and only recently got an ASD diagnosis. For years I just thought I was a failed human being. But I'm calling it "the triad" now, my ASD/ADHD/SCT brain. I also have weird medical issues, some of which probably stem from just not being believed and diagnosed as a kid.
The problem with this is that the government is expanding it or trying too. I guess next they will let young kids be able to use MAID.
This sounds crazy to me. If I had to argue in court over whether or not I had autonomy over my own body in this way, I'd just take care of it myself.
This just sounds like unnecessary torture before the main event.
Thanks for sharing. I hope you’ll be following this case. This was very interesting. Love your videos.
As someone whose family has used the maid program in Canada I have much praise for it from my personal experience. I am glad this case is being talked about, I beleive in the right of the patient to make an informed, professional multi opinion decision. If its my life, I want to control my destiny if it has no choice. There is always the Hemingway route but I like a respectful way with dignity. I am glad this is an option in Canada and that we continue to debate it constructively.
I have thought about this for myself as I have some major medical problems. If I decide its time to go, well I already have a plan with no one's assistance. I just believe that if I can no longer take care of myself and the pain is unbearable and we already know it can't be fixed, then I have the right to choose how and when I want to leave this world.