Justice League | A Marvel Movie
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- Опубліковано 10 лют 2025
- Peer Pressure.
Let me know your thoughts down below!
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In this video I:
-explain why I really wanted a better Justice League movie
JOSS Whedon Changes:
bit.ly/2AntFO7
• Visual Changes in the ...
JUSTICE LEAGUE:
Fueled by his restored faith in humanity and inspired by Superman's selfless act, Bruce Wayne enlists the help of his newfound ally, Diana Prince, to face an even greater enemy.
Director: Zack Snyder
Writers: Chris Terrio (screenplay by), Joss Whedon (screenplay by) | 9 MORE CREDITS
Stars: Ben Affleck, Gal Gadot, Jason Momoa
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SOURCES
► Footage: Justice League | Batman V Superman | Man of Steel | Wonder Woman | Suicide Squad | Batman Returns | Batman Forever | Batman and Robin | Fast Five
► Interviews: Junkie XL | AoU Press Tour |
► Images: Justice League | Joss Whedon | The Long Halloween | Marvel | Avengers: Age of Ultron
► Music: ICON - Jaden Smith - Фільми й анімація
One lesson here...the Marvel formula doesn't necessarily work for DC, and vice versa. I had a decent time with JL, but it was SEVERELY flawed and felt off. I really hope we get the Snyder "intended" cut.
That's one thing that I liked about the DCEU, I liked Man of Steel, but Batman v. Superman and suicide squad didn't really do well for me. However, they were different, and I completely respected that. Marvel is fantastic, and I'm a huge fan, but like it or not, their movies aren't usually very different and complex. But, that works for them, and it works for me too. I thought that the DCEU was going to be different, and bring something new to the comic book movie genre. Despite box office sales or critic opinions, Whatever Snyder cooked up I know I would have liked a lot more than this.
NovaLee
I agree 100%
NovaLee I've yet to see a DC movie worth watching. I hate MoS and BvS, Suicide Squad gave me a headache, Wonder Woman was meh, and Justice League was a shit show
While i'm not a huge marvel fan, that was well put. For Batman v. Superman i highly recommend the DC version. 45 minutes of exposition that just wasn't in the theatrical release. For what it was, i enjoyed the movie. I can't say i would've gotten into Justice League that much to be frank as you could kind of see miles away they're trying to bring their own "avengers" franchise to the forefront. It's not a bad business strategy if it is executed well but it doesn't appeal to me in the slightest.
One thing i love so much about marvel. All of their movie and TV series are connected that can make a whole lot of difference while planing for a big movies like infinity war. But dc messed it up like. We have different flash, superman and everything. TV series is a different universe un DC MOVIES
Will Sartin I especially hate the directors cut of BvS. It was way to long and pointless. I'm strictly a Marvel movie fan. The DCEU has been 4 bad movies in a row. Justice League was the best of the bunch cause at least it had some color, I could stay awake and I laughed as you should during a movie
This is Batman Forever all over again. Batman Returns was "too dark", WB panicked so we got a kid's film. I like JL fine but I'm terribly disappointed we may never see Snyder's conclusion to the Man of Steel trilogy. I originally thought it was a mistake having Joss take over the film. WB needs to get out of their own way.
Buddy Now that's changed..We Won..
You will get your wish my good friend :)
Excellent points! I hadn't considered that Whedon was injecting himself into the film rather than just taking the reigns of a grieving father. So not only did Snyder suffer the loss of his daughter but the loss of a vision he spent creating in Man of Steel and BvS.
Whedon is the babysitter who throws out the parent's cell phone number and ditches the healthy chicken and steamed veggies already warming in the oven and instead orders pizza with the emergency funds then locks the kid in his room while the sitter throws a party.
Snyder will finally have his way come this March my good friend :)
@@Sci-Fi_Freak_YT - Don’t get too cocky. As evidence by the s**t show that’s WW84 it’s clear WB still doesn’t know what they’re doing with these characters or have a long term strategy in terms of tone or even who the main Batman will be.
Releasing the Snyder Cut is actually the worst thing WB could’ve done because it’s a direct admission that the original Justice League was such a dumpster fire that Snyder has to come in put out the fire. Only he’s putting gasoline on the fire because the whole reason they hired Joss Whedon and changed the color pallet and tone was because his first two films, Man of Steel and BvS, weren’t revived very well. But now we’re going back to the visual style and piss poor storytelling because they somehow think it’ll work this time?
I’m not saying the Snyder Cut will be a failure but it does prove that WB/DC have absolutely no idea what they’re doing and are essentially building the tracks while the train is moving.
Who the hell is *Josh* Whedon?
EPM 101 the guy who was called to finish Zed Snyder's work.
this guys gets it
Josh Whedon aka Marvel Sabotager of the JL movie
tlm 1989 *Zod Snyder
Except his name is not Josh....did you people really miss that? It's Joss Whedon.
Marvel has overall a better cinematic universe with consistently good movies, but DC has the best superhero trilogy and arguably some of the greatest superhero movies ever created. This is coming from someone who enjoys Marvel movies much more than DCEU movies.
In Nolan we trust.
I assume you mean the Dark Knight trilogy as best trilogy, right? Not whatever MoS, BvS, and JL were.
I think if DC gave up on it's EU, they'd be able to make great movies again.
Vislow not true Marvel has much shit movie like Wolverine bad Amazing Spider-man 1-2 was horrible . Hulk was bad .Logan trash . and. The first Thor was not good but Doctor Strange was bad
Screw you Chelsea bell end
All wolverines, Thor 1-2-3, Incredible Hulk, captain America 1, age of ultron, iron man 3, Electra, daredevil, man thing.
I get your point. I wish you had elaborated on it. Instead of repeating your thesis over and over
Agreed.
When the kid was being himself, he received hate.
When he ignored them and continued being himself, the hate increased so much.
When the kid finally gave in and changed to fit in, he's blamed here for not being himself.
Time to leave the kid alone yet?
Muhammad N. Jassim Zack Snyder can never win with these people. I feel bad for the guy. The world is just cruel to people who dare to be different.
Bobo Boy Everybody knows the deal is rotten
Ppl hating are mcu fanboys
He just fucking said he liked BvS, ffs people.
Except the kid doesnt make shit movies that get the characters completely wrong.
story sucks thats the problem of JL
Yeah. The story was very by the numbers, but the arcs most of the DC heroes go through really make the film for me.
Hahah uh what else?
Shut upp
The CGI is fucking garbage
romeo o.m The story did suck. They build up this Alien invasion and show off this powerful Villain who the league cannot fight. Superman gets revived and destroys the villain in matter of seconds. Its complete crap we get little to no understanding why the villan did this.
Imo, the DCEU really should have continued with their unique, dark style of superhero movies. Snyder couldn't finish Justice League so they gave the job to Whedon to finish it but it ain't Marvel's fault that it turned out like it did. It isn't a "Marvel movie" like you say it is because if it were it would have been a great film with critics praising it and fans loving it, which I doubt is the case. Whedon tried his best with his skillset which we saw and continue to see in the MCU but I guess he wasn't the guy for the job. Snyder's vision of the DC universe was very ambitious and different, but in the end his work was all for nothing because fans and critics hate most of the films (BvS, Suicide Squad) and they were always under the shadow of Marvel's success. A shadow they clearly cannot overcome since WB had to give in and hire none other than the former director and one of the producers of the same franchise you are trying to compete with. It is truly disastrous what this people are doing with such amazing characters (I'm a huge fan of batman btw) and after such amazing Batman films with Christian Bale, but in the end it's a disaster that only themselves can fix. So let's try not to blame other things when the problem is clearly from within.
"Whedon tried his best with his skillset which we saw and continue to see in the MCU but I guess he wasn't the guy for the job."
Agreed. And I want to add that to me it seems like WB tried to encapsulate the dark style from The Dark Knight trilogy because it worked so well with Nolan. Therefore imo the Snyder 'verse or DCEU not only was always under the shadow of Marvel's success, but also under the shadow of its own predecessor's success. So Snyder did also his best with his skillset, but it wasn't as well received by critics and part of the general audience for said reasons among others, probably subjective ones.
I cringed when he said josh whedon
Marvel Studios movies are loved by critics and general audiences. They are a level above the Snyder DCEU crapfest. Thor crushing JL, and Civil War owning BVS prove it. When they are in direct competition, audiences prefer Marvel Studios by a WIDE margin!
Knightfall182 who doesn't love family friendly Marvel? They're easy to watch. You can turn off your brain and enjoy the special effects. I can take my kids and they love it. Nothing wrong with it.
It's only until you read comment sections like where you hear everyone arguing that thor Ragnarok was utter trash when I couldn't disagree more, while JL gets praised. I loved Thor Ragnarok I didn't feel like it forced comedy too much and it's getting hate for the same reason that people are trying to redeem JL with.(the first two were dark and serious no one likes that,but the next one was light hearted and got even more hate)
I'm not a die hard dc fan but I actually loved the film, the problem is everybody looks at marvel and dc like it's a competition, and most people now depends on other people's opinions who are obviously predisposed to nitpick the film. Sure justice league has some flaws, but it actually can be easily overlooked because it has more pros than cons. I think it's a step in the right direction and it gave me hope for the future films.
CarlBonara
That's because BvS and SS is so bad that you hold lesser expectations on Justice League. So it's easier for Justice League to surpass your already lowered expectations.
Jeonhaerimfan I agree with you, I also had my expectations low after seeing those two but the way it does for me is that having lower expectations made me appreciate the film, like how they've learned from the previous films and is trying to go a different route(atleast in my observations) and yeah having lower expectations also does something else for other people, having this mindset that it's going to be just as bad so they end up hating the film.
Exactly! Enjoy both marvel and DC, it isn't a competition!
Jeonhaerimfan no, it's because he liked the fucking film
Good point
Justice League would have been a huge course correction regardless of who directed it. If Whedon hadn't finished the production for Zack then whoever took over would've probably done something similar, or even worse, under WB's orders.
But Christopher Nolan’s Dark Knight Trilogy surpasses everything Marvel has done so far imo
Amen! Snyder's story telling has flaws, but I see his vision of the characters like Rock n Roll. Just because Beyonce, Adele, Taylor Swift, Justin Beiber and K-Pop are making bank nowadays, it doesn't mean that they're cool. It's just what the kids are into. And though Liam Gallagher, James, The Chris Robinson Brotherhood, The Stone Roses, etc. aren't making as much, it doesn't mean that they suck and they have to change their style.
BUT, if a reboot is a necessity, then I dream of a 100% faithful Kingdom Come movie. They could get the writer and director of Capt. America 1 to retell Superman and they could have Todd McFarlane and James Wan do a rated-R Batman movie.
I totally agree (even though I don’t know half of the names you mentioned). That is an amazing and an out there way of thinking, if only everybody else knew this
That Kpop scene was so out of place
don't bring k-pop into comparison with New age western artist ...its weird ..because k-pop has been there creating following in the
Eastern side for a long long time ..if you don't know then educate yourself
Bobo Boy you must be joking of you are just ignorant ..have you heard Seo taiji and boys ..if you haven't then you should check their history in UA-cam ...you'll know why I'm saying this
☺
I love how this comment was about film makers but this thread is about K-pop
Dc sadly needs another reboot..
Whale Ghost except dc fanboys say synder is a great director like Nolan who makes masterpieces so dc might not reboot
It’s coming in the Flash movie
True but It’s just in my opinion but dc is now just a mix of tones clashed into a crappy universe.. it feels sloppy and rushed wonderwomen was the only decent film. I know it’s hard making a movie but time after time they have to figure them self’s out (My opinion )
Don't say shit about Saint Snyder!
I think the tone of this film is WB's doing. They know who Joss Whedon is and what type of movies he makes. If they wanted the film to remain Snyder-centric, they should have chosen another director. They let Whedon make the decisions that he did. Yes, the bosses have their hand in the pie, and sometimes it's a good thing.
Whedon had to finish the film, which was not theater-ready when Snyder left. On top of that 2 months of reshoot and MAJOR rewrites . There were 45 minutes cut from the film, plus, the release date that did not change. Yes, the film was bound to include Whedon's vision, which I don't think matches up particularly well with Snyder's. He took the job knowing what was required, so there's blame all around for the end product. In absence of any proof, I don't know if this would have been a better film with Snyder at the held. What I am sure of is that there would have been plenty of complaints.
WB wants Marvel Studios success and thought that by including things that made their films work, it would make DC films work. I totally disagree. Their characters are different and have different personalities; they ought to be true to the DC comics characters and their own vision. Superhero films need competition, in terms of their being more than one voice, and that means they need to be different enough to have their own personality, their own tone and vibe. WB can't duplicate what Marvel Studios has done, so they need to get over that. Marvel Studios took time in building a universe and cementing the fans relationship with their characters before anyone was aware that they even had a universe.
WB knows how to make films, they just need to stay the course , take time and make good films from the source material and maintain THEIR vision rather than trying to copy someone else's. What Marvel Studios does, works for Marvel Studios.
Great video; some excellent points. thanks for sharing your opinion.
But DC is not being themselves. Lets face facts. Most non comic book readers don't know the difference between Marvel and DC characters. And that's because there isn't much. The two companies have shared the same writers, artists and editors for their entire existence. If a Marvel writer comes to DC, he doesn't get a manual in how to write in a DC manner. For WB to want to distance themselves from "the marvel style" is distancing themselves from their own source material.
Plus.. Snyder was just the wrong choice. You have to realize, Snyder is one of those comic fans that likes the dark cynical comics and looks down and picks on characters like Superman, Jimmy Olson, Barry Allen or Aquaman. That's why he sought out directing Dawn of the Dead and Watchmen. 300 and Sucker Punch. WB just saw that he made comic book movies and was like "You should do Superman!"
But Snyder turned it down. He is the type that's like.. "fuck that. Superman sucks!" But WB upped their offer and gave him creative freedom to make the character HE wanted. And it shows. These characters have been successful for 75+ years for a reason and they gave it to a guy who doesn't like them. That's why the movies are so divisive.
And stop blaming Whedon. They brought him on and said "we do not like this movie. Here is everything we want you to change" And then gave him SIX MONTHS TO DO IT. I almost guarantee he asked for more time. I guarantee he knew Steppenwolf didn't work and told WB to delay the movie to fix it. He worked like a dog in this movie and WB gave him no time to put out a movie he could be proud of. He probably is pissed that his name is on it. I would be. He probably liked that tweet because he agreed. He probably wanted to say "Trust me. I wanted to make the villain better but my bosses didn't have my back".
He didn't come aboard wanting to change everything. Before Snyder left WB already saw his version and called it a mess. AND they were coming off a ton of critisism from BvS. WB forced the lighter tone. You can believe that.
I should say an EVEN lighter tone. Because even Snyder said for months before he left that he himself wanted this to be a lighter movie with jokes and hope. That the arc of his 3 movies was to end with this being the light at the end. But lets face it.. Snyder does NOT know how to do light and humor. The lame jokes were in the trailers of the deleted scenes Whedon took out that Snyder shot.
Yeah the problem with that is; Zack Snyder loves DC. He loves Superman, he loves Aquaman, he loves Barry Allan etc. He was thrilled to direct Watchmen just like he was thrilled to direct Man of Steel. If you really think Snyder hates Superman, look at the Man of Steel first flight scene. He in no way looks down on the comics and he's always talked about how much of a fan of these heroes he is in the various interviews he's done. Just look at the recent breakdown he did of BvS.
Justice League is NOT a Zack Snyder film. It's a Frankenstein's monster made from the different movies that Snyder, Whedon and the studio wanted to make.
@@TG-bd7yd That's the thing though, he is NOT a Superman, Aquaman and Flash fan. Look at the movies he chose to make. 300. Watchmen. Sucker Punch. THATS the material he likes. He was offered Man of Steel because WB saw a guy who did Watchmen and said "hey. We already have a comic director. Lets have him do it" and Snyder turned them down. He said no when offered because Superman was never a character he got. WB kept on him though and I don't know if it was because it was too high profile a gig, WB offered him more money, or the creative control to do things like kill off Jimmy Olson (which yeah.. Huge sign there he's a huge fan, right?) But he changed his mind.
And once you are working on a project, you stop saying you aren't a fan. Thats when his story changed and suddenly he says he loves the characters.
As far as certain scenes, yeah, if you are working on a movie, you want scenes to be majestic and for people to think it's inspiring. You do your best. But his main disregard for the characters still show through. If he was an Aquaman fan, show me the character he seemingly loves from the comics in that movie. That Aquaman had people go up to him, get asked to prevent a war, said fuck off, and only decided to help when it affected him personally. Him and Flash both could have been completely different characters. I know when I love a character, I want to make movies where they are just about unrecognizable.
And that is NOT a movie Whedon wanted to make. Justice League was like giving a painter a page from a coloring book, being told what colors to use and where, giving direct instructions on what to do, and then calling the result "his painting".
I got Age of Ultron flashbacks while watching this, and not in a good way. I liked both JL and AoU, but I feel the biggest flaw with both is the fact that they're painfully average when they could've been so much more.
It’s just in my opinion but dc is now just a mix of tones clashed into a crappy universe.. it feels sloppy and rushed wonderwomen was the only decent film.
it was rushed and thats why dc is bad in some way for now
and also i really wish the dceu would have done the whole concept in a different way then the copy and paste of marvels version
Whale Ghost So True
Marvel has rarely ever made a terrible movie
Canal MiniMapa how was it like inception?
technology productions 2017 well during MCU era of superhero movies
Age of ultron was pretty bad imo
technology productions 2017 Thor, Thor 2, Thor 3, Iron Man 2 and Iron man 3, and Avengers 1 (not bad but it’s no rewatch able DC & Marvel both have movies
Eh, thor 2 and age of ultron are the closest to bad, but they are just mediorce
So basically instead of following the incredible success marvel/disney have had, where not all of their movies are great but none since phase 1 have been really bad (opinion btw), you want to go back to the 'brilliant filmmaking' that is batman v superman. Especially considering marvel are missing a lot of their best characters, DC should be smashing Marvel. Agree with a lot of your other points though like Batman cracking jokes or the sudden change in them.
Clearly a very passionate topic for you, strong feelings very well presented and coherently voiced, good job man
Perspective is very important when looking at Whedon's lack of visibility in the promotion of this film. One person can say he was wrong to not be visible. Other's would recognize this as doing the honorable thing, for not taking the spotlight away from the still actual 'credited' director of this film. Yes Joss did pickups, but he repeatedly made public statements that this was Zack Snyder's movie. This is the professional protocol in this situation. Yes, this is my perspective...but it is also the adult one.
I like your take on things. Haven't seen the movie yet but it sounds like it turned out exactly as I expected from watching the trailers. I think they should definitely just reboot the whole thing, get rid of Cavill and perhaps even Affleck (though I really like his Batman), but keep Wonder Woman. Retcon that shit, DC style. Do a Crisis movie or something. Heck, they do it on The Flash TV show all the time!
Btw, the T in Gadot is NOT silent. She's not French. :)
It’s a Joss Whedon movie in the style of Zach Snyder
I disagree. The Marvel movies have had a decent amount (although not overwhelming) of stylistic and content variation, especially of late. Joss Whedon's style doesn't represent an "overall Marvel style" at all. In fact, outside of the Avengers, all of the other Marvel movies have been very un-Whedon like in style. I thought the narrative flow and visuals of Justice League were very representative of Zack Snyder's style despite some noticeable flourishes of Whedon dialogue.
sorry but it’s not enough to say justice league is bad because it’s a “marvel movie”. its just a poor movie. dont use it to attack marvel movies. the mcu has a clear vision. justice league has nothing.
Regardless of a director's vision, people have to understand that it's all business. Let's go back and see how we got to this point.
1. Marvel started Iron Man, was a critical and commercial success, MCU began and mostly followed the same formula.
2. WB decided to start their own movie universe with Green Lantern, got rotten scores, sequel and planned universe cancelled.
3. Whedon's Avengers was released, proving ensemble crossovers can both be a critical and financial success.
4. WB just finished TDK trilogy and was planning to try this shared universe again. Since the very light and sort of campy tone of Green Lantern failed for them, WB came to the conclusion that "dark and brooding" is the way to go, similar to the TDK trilogy as well as Snyder's Watchmen.
5. Hence it only made sense that they got Snyder to direct and David S. Goyer and Chris Nolan to produce and pen.
6. Man of Steel came out and was as polarizing to critics as Watchmen was.
7. To play catch up to the Marvel crossovers, WB released BVS, to terrible reviews for being too "dark and brooding." At this point, WB is now thinking to go back the "light and happy" path they abandoned in Green Lantern.
8. This led to several reshoots of Suicide Squad, much to the director's dismay for the studio's interference. The film ended up being more "fun" but got worse scores than BVS.
9. So with Snyder's leave, and WB running out of ideas, the studio took the initiative to bring in Whedon, to shed some "fun and banter" that his Avengers films are so famous for.
10. JL is released, rotten scores resulting to a low opening weekend at the Box Office with WB at risk of losing money with all the reshoots.
11. Snyder fans hating on Whedon for basically doing what WB hired him to do.
My take:
WB realized that RT scores have a LOT to do with selling tickets now, so you can't blame them for craving a fresh score at the sacrifice of changing the "feel" of the movie. But the underlying problem is that RT, and therefore most people using it, only care about the "critics" review. JL as of now sits with 41% with critics but boasts a high 84% with the audience. As for WB, instead of figuring out if audiences will like dark or hopeful, try matching the film with a proper director, and for dear lord--POLISH THE SCRIPT. BTAS: The Mask of Phantasm had a better script than any of the DCEU films so far.
Outlook:
I love both Marvel and DC. I love Snyder for Watchmen and Whedon for Avengers 1 and 2. BvS could have used more work on the script. As for JL, it's a good start to a brighter tomorrow. DC doesn't need to be ALL dark and brooding. That's Batman's turf. Wonder Woman was all bright and hopeful and everyone loved it, and Whedon wasn't even involved.
People forgot how every actor said "it's still a Snyder movie" and the fact that Snyder asked Whedon to continue *post-production*.
Awesome video as usual. Huge change in tone here, felt more like guardians lol
It's *Joss,* not *Josh.*
The video became unwatchable to me
Ooh sorry
Justice League problem is WB wanting the film to be under 2hrs. You can tell from watching the film there scenes that were cut.
Justice League | A Marvel Movie done wrong*
Leslie Knope
Yas...
Agreed. Title makes it sound like being a marvel movie is a bad thing.....
Leslie Knope
Yep!
To be fair, this Channel is basically 'Devil's advocate' the channel. He hated on '13 reasons why' when it was hot and is now turning a controversial movie into a criticism of Marvel, a company who's only real ties to DC are the amalgam comics. This guy is clickbait in all the wrong ways.
lou mertens haha you're not wrong but let me add another "to be fair" in this.
13 Reasons Why was truly bad as a show. I have my opinions about the commentary but I keep those separate from the quality of the actual product.
Without being super critic as most people in here are, I did love it. I have paid the same money to watch pretty bad films, so nothing much to complain about. My attention was in the movie since it started and I didnt even tried to compare it with any other movie. I dont think there is someone in this World that can make a perfect movie that EVERYBODY likes.
Exactly! You can like both, without comparing!
Its ok if you found it entertaining. But in terms of film integrity, this film essentially highlights whats wrong with big hollywood studios simply not getting it.
Charlie Eagler I agree with you. The problem with the people watching JL, subconsciously they're already comparing the film to Avengers before they even saw the film. You have a good advise there. We should not compare movies with other movies when watching. It'll spoil the fun.
christopher Nolan can
and it's called the dark knight
Totally agree. This isnt Zack's Justice League!
This is JOSStice League and both the movie and Joss can go to Marvel and no one would give a toss
Bro words can't express how much I appreciate and loved this video. U deserve more likes man
Also if you watch Wheaton Age of Ultron. He is in pain. The forced Ragnarok reference, Disney product placement and the fact studio wants to cut the farm house scene is clear day prove. Watch Buffy and you will understand his vision for Justice League
Apparently they threw away 50 minutes of Zack Snyder's film. They took what was left and the plot to Thor Ragnarok and made this movie. The big bad with horns on their head wants to turn the Homeworld into something that they like. Zod wanted to recreate Krypton in Man of Steel. Hella recreated Asgard in Thor Ragnarok. Steppenwolf tries to recreate Earth in this movie. When Thor gets his lightning powers it kind of looks like this version of The Flash. Superman is shirtless and incredibly strong. There's a warrior woman with a sword that mirrors Wonder Woman. I think with Snyder was trying to do was to extend the gritty realism of the Nolan Batman films to the rest of the extended DCU. That means that bright cheerful characters like Superman have to be a little bit darker . I think he was planning to end with a more traditional Superman. But it would take awhile to get there. It's called a character Arc. Luke Skywalker is not the same person he was in the original Star Wars Episode 4. Pop culture generally speaking is much darker today compared with 30 years ago . But the problem is that there are so many different versions of these characters in film and television as well as the comic books. you can't please everybody . The comic books of the 1960s have a completely different feel in the ones in the 1970s . That continues to the present day .
That's because in the sixties comics were heavily regulated on what's allowed making them very light in tone. Not a criticism just a neat little fact
CORRECTION: *Justice League: a failed attempt to be as good as the MCU, that backfired spectacularly and will be the source of many Memes to come* or *Justice League: It's so craptastic that even Superman's mustache asked to be hidden* or *Justice League: Kal-El nooooooooooooooooooooo*
David .... David:a Guy who tries to hard.
The thing is, while I agree with the analogy, the studio only cares about the money, and they don’t care enough to slowly earn the money they’re only interested in milking it
When superman came to help in the third act. I believed it was the first time I saw The Superman I grew up with. The confidence and banter with the flash was was a taste of the man of steel I wanted to see. Not the God complex version
To be fair to Whedon, Age of Ultron was made during a time when Perlmutter was at full swing.
I remember Snyder or Terrio saying during press for BvS that Justice League was always going to be the lighter film. To the extent, we’ll probably never know.
Yes justice league is a very terrible marvel movie
way 2 cold yet it's the only watchable DC movie
KarnRulez I actually really like man of steel except the reporter scenes those are really boring to me. Every other dceu movie not so much.
way 2 cold I hate Man of Steel
KarnRulez no bad joke i hate Logan
Great video. I totally agree!
The thing is... DC has that reputation of being "dark", "gritty" and "serious" but that might not be the case for all of the DC characters. Sure, Snyder's style might fit with a character like Batman, but characters like Flash and Superman need a more lighthearted tone.
I was never a DC fan, I've barely read any of their comics, but from the few that I've seen, and judging from the Justice League cartoon that I used to watch (and I absolutely loved), Zack Snyder's style and tone wouldn't really fit with that team of super heroes. I saw the Justice League movie and while I can see the flaws and I know that it's far from a good movie, I actually enjoyed it, mainly because of the characters, their interactions and their humour. And that's why I think that the "Marvel" tone actually was good for that movie.
This video describes how I felt about the movie. I have been waiting my entire life for this movie and I was let down
I didn't want a dark movie or a fun movie. I wanted a movie that makes sense and makes me feel invested in the characters. DC has never made me feel. I wanted this movie to be awesome. I wanted to love this movie since BVS had too many plotlines and JL had only one objective. But it failed miserably. The villian was boring, he was never a threat to the characters, the CGI was too noticeable, lot of scenes were cut and left the plot hanging and it was just a forgetful movie. MCU movies have too many jokes in them and some movies are forgetful but I still watch them because they make me feel, they make me feel connected to the characters in a way that DC lacks severely. And MCU makes sense most of the time to me.
DC should just take a break and find a comic book fan like kevin feige to oversee everything and start from the begining with solo movies. It dosent matter if it is dark or fun. If the characters are interesting, people will come and watch.
You should check out the Ultimate Edition of BvS, it fixes a lot of the plot holes in the film and adds a lot more depth to the characters overall, Superman in particular gets more depth in this version of the film. (As a bonus it technically isn’t a directors cut because this was the film they intended to release before WB stepped in and f**ked everything up).
The thing is, the studio actively wanted Whedom to marvelise Justice League. The movie is what it is because the studio wanted to change the tone, not because Whedom decided he wanted to take over the film with his style.
I agree man,but I do think Zack did want to make a lighter movie,but the tone would've been more subtle than what we got,cuz in the movie Steppenwolf explains how he came to terraform earth during its darkest time.
Im more of a Marvel but I like both and both Marvel and DC aren't perfect or terrible buuut... I feel like Dc is better at video games and animated movies and shoes as for Marvel its better at movies and tv shows ( Most Netflix shows ) both are great at comics 👌👍💪
King Nyz no. marvel sucks at comics since the last 10 years.
I don’t know how you aren’t more popular. I love watching your videos and your opinions. You are clearly very knowledgeable about what you’re talking about and it really makes me think critically. But like..... I loved Justice League. Aquaman is my jam.
"With all that CGI"
I am so sick to death of clueless UA-cam's using CGI as a critique...ALL MOVIES IN THE GENRE USE HEAVY CGI....CGI is even used in dramas...and BVS wasn't cheesy .
What we got in BVS and MOS with these heroes isn't a different take as far as content..Superman has doubted his self many times in vintage comics..I'm 50 years old and have read DC comics for 43 years.
The wonder woman solo was Snyder's vision of the character according to what Patty said...there are actually parallels between WW and MOS....they both follow the heroes journey formula ..
Snyder finished shooting JL 100 %
And changing JL have the DCEU it's first flip.
Man of steel wasn't a dark movie..BVS was the only really dark movie .
John Wonder I’m with you a 100 💯
This was really dumb. Empty arguments from someone who was expecting something that wasn’t just a mediocre movie. This film was more comic book then any of the other DCEU films so far. You’re overreacting.
Bro. Agreed u rock
i agree with you 100%
This was nice, respectful and intelligent commentary! I was afraid you were just going rant, complain, or even praise which is typical of others but this was pleasantly incisive observation. Thumbs up! 👍 I plan on checking out the rest of your videos when I get a chance. Liked & Thanks!
I like what you said ..."The White Sox to my Cubs..."....a Cubs fan.
To be fair, Whedon can't be blamed for all the lightness. Snyder said the plan was for BvS to be the darkest of the films, and Justice League is where they really become true heroes.
Pretty much agree with everything you said man, I don't think WB helped the situation, but it does seem like Whedon kinda "hijacked" the movie to make it his vision rather than acting as a band-aid/bridge to complete Snyder's. It's incredible how many scenes that were in previous trailers that came out before Whedon came on board (i.e. Snyder scenes) that didn't make the theatrical cut; one scene that was horrifically edited was when Bruce goes to get Aquaman and he's already turned around, it's like they plopped us halfway into a conversation that I guess I'm supposed to already know about, rather than having that build-up they hinted at in the first comic-con trailer where AqM turns around and says "Talk!" which conveys to us that this is the mysterious guy who's special in the room (among several other poorly constructed/edited scenes that seemed they were missing footage). What are the chances of an Ultimate Edition on Blu-Ray? I want a UE, but not holding out much hope.
i know its sound copying Marvel but imagine if JL members get their own invidual movies first, so the members got to built their greatness before unite in JL. Starting from earth-originated heroes (Batman, Flash, Cyborg), then the defeated villains unite in Suicide Squad, then gods-heroes debute (Aquaman and Wonder Woman), after that expand to heroes from outer space (Superman, Green Lantern, Martian) It'd be more awesome that way. After JL got sequels, we'd be familiarized with its universe now the right time to got more complicated, expand to heroes conflict like BvS, Flashpoint, Death of Superman (how come Doomsday got beaten to early in DCU, come on)
I felt like Justice League should of been dark in the beginning and got lighter once Superman returned right?
I think we need to lose this mentality of comparing DC and marvel like it's some competition.
Agreed
Yes Bruce Wayne is a playboy but even Batman would be nervous around WONDER WOMAN
Nervous in front a women is one thing.. nervous in front of a centuries old, string as Superman, sexy as hell WONDER women is a totally different thing.. it doesn’t show Bruce’s weakness it shows Diana’s caliber.
1.Why does everyone think DC is supposed to be dark? superman,wonderwomen,flash,cyborg are all light hearted characters Batman may be the most popular but he's certainly the exception
2.people don't hate the DCEU because DC the arrowverse,animated universe,injustice universe,Arkham universe all do great with the same characters so where does that misconception come from?
3.snyder isn't the worst director of all time(and he's definitely less of a asshole then joss)but his films have never done great in the public eye(300,watchman and sucker punch)which all are lesser known properties but these are characters that the public know and care about hence the hate when he changes them drastically why is everyone pretending everyone loved him before MoS?
Please answer respectfully I'm genuinely trying to understand other peoples perspectives
I don't know why it's so surprising to people that the tone of JL is so different. First of all. WB is about making money. Yes that's sucks for creativity but it's true. Why did they rush into their extended universe without focusing on solid solo films and warming up the audience's anticipation? Because they don't wanna miss out on the superhero financial bubble. You've got MOS and BvS which are divisive at best across the board. People either hate them or love them. SS is considered pretty bad by most. WW is mostly adored. But that hardly matters to WB. They're watching the profits. And while the previous films didn't make as much as they hoped, they still made money. But there's always more to make and they need a formula they can count on to make bank as the films keep coming out. As many have pointed out, they want to beat Marvel but they also need to pacify their shareholders.
So if the Snyder films have divided fans and critics alike, while the majority of Marvel's are getting a pass... why wouldn't WB try to emulate a Marvel film? You've got all these fanboys screaming about Snyder's vision ruining the DCEU and now they're bitching that it's Whedon who destroyed the JL. Conveniently forgetting that in all likelihood, if Snyder hadn't been pulled away by a family tragedy, this film most likely would have followed in the footsteps of MOS and BvS: same grim controversial tone, same lack of humor or humanity, same melodrama, same divide down the middle and same box office or worse. Because casual fans have been scared off and even some of the diehards are losing faith. Maybe Whedon's sensibilities ruined the film for some, but he was brought in to give JL the same flair that made many of the Marvel films hits. WB doesn't care about artistry or vision or the way fans long to see these characters portrayed if it's not profitable. If Whedon stated that they needed to reshoot and readjust the tone, they were gonna do whatever it took to make JL, at the very least, safe and acceptable. And they got that. It's high praise indeed when reviewers across the board are saying "I didn't hate it... it's not the worst... I had fun with it."
Don't be surprised if the next one has a huge shift in tone as well. Since JL didn't perform as well as WB hoped (they counted those chickens far ahead of hatching time and took the popularity of their characters for granted), they're going to do whatever they need to to make the next one different. Most likely it too will be a response to the criticisms raised by viewers, which is what they've all been. WB doesn't have a universal vision for this universe. They're just trying to find the most profitable method of churning out their films. They'll happily produce garbage if it makes bank. Sad but true.
Whedon was hired to do a job and he did it, you can't switch a director half way through and expect it to be good. I guarantee you even if Snyder was able to finish it would have probably been at about the same level of quality.
The problem with Superman expressing self-doubt and Batman killing is that it’s not those characters. The problem with JL is the messy tone, one-dimensional characters, terrible CGI, and formulaic plot.
I really enjoyed how you broke this down brotha!
I give my mom a lot of shit when she's accidentally says "Josh" Wheadon, so here's yours:
**Joss*
I heard Elfman's Batman theme and my eyes teared up.
We the fans have been saying it...we don't know HOW DC got it confused but......we've been saying follow MARVEL blue prints and study what MARVEL has been doing both right AND wrong,we didn't say BECOME A MARVEL movie,DC!And thats what JL is...a frekking MARVEL movie,becoming the other's movie doesn't work at all,remember when IRONMAN 3 became a DC movie??That was a bad choice because MARVEL needs to be MARVEL and DC needs to be LEGO BATMAN,haha!!
If DC made their DCEU movies to the point where Marvel has it today with their MCU, before the first Marvel movie, people would have then complained that the marvel movies were not dark and gritty like dc movies. We should not be comparing movies from different universes, they should be compared with movies within their same universe, then we can find the problems to solve.
They should've kept the dark tone instead of turning it into the avengers
Problem is too much of the movie was spent introducing more characters as opposed to getting into the story. Characters that we expect to care about in the future. While many people say DC had to take a shortcut, there's a reason its not as successful as Marvel -the foundation is weak. We had mixed reactions to Man of Steel, mixed reactions to BvS, mixed reactions to Suicide Squad - outside of Wonder Woman, what characters do we care about going forward?
Alright, first of all- (and please, forgive me for sounding like a pretentious fuck.. but.) I despise how "super hero movie" has become the go-to blanket term for every film that comes out that has damn comic book character in it, I'm not saying people shouldn't call a movie with "super heroes" in them "super hero movies" and neither am I saying Justice League, Batman v Superman, or even Man of Steel were amazing movies, they have problems and it's definitely.. well.. obvious, but look.. I'm utterly exhausted of people complaining about Snyder's vision for the DC cinematic universe. it was his vision as a director, these films were his babies. are we going to pretend directors don't have varying styles? sure they were violent, they were dark, they were gritty, but are we just pretending that dark, violent comics don't exist?? are we pretending that the DC universe isn't.. well.. dark?? I mean has anyone even picked up a damn comic book before? does The Killing Joke not even exist? is Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns a figment of my imagination?? is the general consensus between literally everyone now days that all comic book films be as light hearted and hopeful as say.. Guardians of the galaxy or Ant man?? don't get me wrong.. I adore those films, but DC is DC.. it has light hearted characters/stories galore but what's wrong with a dark thought provoking story? I'm sorry but I don't think there's much wrong with a comic book film that's dark/philosophical. comic books explore many themes, so I don't feel as if there's anything wrong with comic book FILMS exploring them either. anyway, there's my rant.
I agree comic book movies can and sometimes should be dark like (TDK,Logan even the winter soldier to a certain extent) but darkness for the sake of being dark is as pointless as a joke for the sake of having a joke Snyder went far to "dark" with MoS then doubled down on darkness on BvS and stripped both Batman and superman of there complexity the contrast of the light and dark make both superman and Batman interesting go too far in either direction and you end up with a 1 dimensional characters.Also although alot of people find Snyders visuals beautiful alot of people find them ugly and fake looking,that's why not a single Snyder film has CGI that isn't complained about his style is very polarising
Daniel Greig I personally really enjoyed Man of Steel. I just find it funny that after years of reading comics, Man of Steel was the first time I ever actually reeeaally liked Superman. Honestly it was the first time I ever actually felt something for his character, not saying I hated him before or anything, but Man of Steel made me gain an appreciation for the character that I didn't have previously.
Stardust Soul I disagree but I can see that point of view I really like superman stories where they flip him on his head (redson,injustice) but I found MoS boring and I would have preferred a accurate portrayal because we never really have had one in live action the closest we got was smallville and the 70s movies which were both fine but both were always a little off also to change him so much in the first movie seems weird they should have done a dark superman in the sequel not out off the gate I also really feel bad for Cavil I think he's perfect casting but the script let him down
2:54 “Josh Whedon”?😂
Joss didn't "dip" on marvel and wasn't a crybaby imo. When the creative committee was established, its goal were to reign in directors. The CC got heavily involved with AoU. Joss never wanted the thor pool scene.He wanted to cut it so that he could expand on bruce/natasha's relationship and actually make it a relationship. On top of that, he was helping every other phase 2 film. So while he had power, it was ripped away from him when it came to his own movie. Along with that, he had a lot of restrictions for the second movie. Perlmutter's goals were to replicate the avengers but this time do it for less. That's hard when you're trying to do Ultron as a sequel. Take all of that into consideration and then look at the backlash AoU faced over natasha. A line he intended to expand upon her killing and being immoral was taken into the context of her not being able to have kids. Its obvious that this wasn't his intent and the amount of hate he felt was huge. He left marvel a couple months before the committee was disbanded. I might be wrong on this so take it with a grain of salt but I remember reading that he was approached about going back to help out with IW but was working with DC at the time (batgirl and JL). We know that he did approach marvel about being the director of batgirl.
. Zack Snyder was fired and Warner Brothers covered it with his daughter's death. These are the order of my favorite dceu movies Suicide Squad, Justice League, Batman v Superman, Man of Steel and Wonder women.
What's the name of your song at the end buddy 👌✌✊ it was so cool!
Getting rid of Junkie XL ?!?!?! What a bad decision !!
Whats the outro song to this video? Because it’s insane.
Jaden Smith
Jaden smith- Icon
I really hate the idea powerful women can't be sexy. Yes, they can be both, and there's nothing wrong with being both.
If it was anything like a MARVEL movie, then it wouldn't have made 90 million opening weekend.
Extremely agreed with that closing statement.
At the end of the day Justice League was better than Batman versus Superman.
"Superman can be brooding and Batman can be who's off the edge" THAT'S THE PROBLEM! Everyone passionately hated how they were portrayed. People wanted change and DCEU changed but now you guys are hating it because it's changed? Extremely hypocritical. BvS and MoS were harshly hated because it was "no fun and brooding" but when they add comedy, you guys hate it...
DC should've gave all the characters their own movie before bringing in the Justice League like Marvel did
I wonder what justice league would've been if Zack Snyder didn't step away from the project
well MAYBE If zack Snyder directed it, we wouldn't think of it as a marvel movie🙂
Great insight. What is that song saying at the end of your video? thanks for your time
wasn't even aware that Weadon had changed that much kind of makes you think
I think the way DC separates themselves from Marvel is to disrupt the continuity. Instead of creating a continuous DCEU, make the stories about to characters that are more like Elsewhere comics. Everyone knows Batman. Everyone knows Superman. Everyone knows Wonder Woman. We all know the characters and their origins, maybe do fresh, compelling takes on the characters that shake up the status quo. Imagine, Injustice League on screen. Or Dark Knight Metal. Talk about epic and fun stories THAT would be AMAZING! And they wouldn't even have to do much. Just embrace the multiverse of DCEU. Imagine the possibilities!
CORRECTION: *ITS NOT DC, is WARNER BROTHERS who own Dc, CAUSE Snyder already had his own vision, but they change it*
Oh gOD no, Justice League definitely did NOT seem like a Marvel movie... I wanted the movie to be good, however they wanted to make it (dark, funny, whatever) but it was adequate at best!
If justice league were a Marvel movie then it'd be good..
When you forced a marvel scores and a marvel runtime in a DC movie.