Noooo! 😂 Honestly I have very lovely players across all my groups, but if I didn't I'd probably ambush them with a one shot in an easy whenever there was a last minute cancellation! It's a lot harder to say to no to someone who has everything set up!
One thing that wasn't mentioned is game stores! Most game stores will have slots for games, game schedules online, and will advertise your game for you. Biggest pro for this method: your table will be comprised of people who are interested enough in the system you're running to show up at a store and try it out with randoms. Possible cons: assholes are everywhere and game stores are no exception; your game is too niche and no one shows up (good luck finding a table for Mormon Cowboy Simulator). I run an open table Old-School Essentials game on Sundays at one of my local game stores and I've met a lot of cool people doing it who are interested in the game I'm running. I play in another group in that same store that changes systems every three months because we all like trying new games.
I know someone who plays D&D in another group and has admitted they don't play anything except for fighters because they don't understand magic in D&D and I'm slowly trying to get them to play something else with my group, possibly Shadowdark.
Just want to say thanks for always approaching your topics from a positive light "Do this to be better" instead of the all too common "This sucks!" type of reaction. It's always a pleasure to have your videos come across my feed.
I love that you grab folks from art classes and just go “hey, we’re playing this”! I definitely think my own excitement has been the best pitch. If I really want to play, my players will be excited too.
Back in college my 4 players lived together. When one of them asked about Shadowrun I dropped two copies of the core rules and a few supplements off in their dorm room. A week later they had all read the rules and 3 had made characters. So we canceled DnD that week for a session zero.
Been DMing since the Red Box. Playing 5E. Running Shadowdark. Just ran a game of Maze Rats blind. I had briefly looked over the rules months ago, grabbed a 1st level Shadowdark adventure that I had not reviewed. Handed out paper and pencils. We were gaming in about 20 min. Had a blast and the players want more.
Cannot recommend taking advantage of a player missing a session to help pitch a one-shot of a new game, it's how I got my players to play Monster of the Week which became it's own campaign after our D&D campaign ended. And it was a way to get that player who initially missed that one session to play a whole new game and not feel left out in the end. Btw great TTRPG recs in this video, trying to get my players into Mothership ahead of spooky season!
Excellent video! Always love playing more games. Secret Tip #4, start a youtube channel, build a community of other youtubers, and then just start playing a bunch of one shots with them whenever you can. Oh, is that just me? 🤣
Fortunately, the group I've been playing with since COVID lockdown (over Zoom/Roll20) is very open to new games, and 3 of us have taken on the GM role at different times. We started out with Eclipse Phase, and we've played 1e Gamma World, Savage Worlds: Sticks & Stones, Covert Ops, Retro (Caltrop Core), Deadlands: Noir, Justice Inc., and the Old School Essentials version of Dark Places & Demogorgons. Right now I'm running a house-ruled version of the old Middle-earth Roleplaying (MERP). These range from true old-school to modern style to OSR, and 4-page, super-light-rules to extreme crunch. We've had fun with all of them.
I've been playing TTRPGs for many years and I used to play several different systems, but in the last several years I've really only played D&D 5E. I really need to branch out again. I think your idea of having a one shot ready, using a different system, for when players miss a session is a good idea to give other systems a chance without having to end your D&D campaign. I had one group where that is basically what we did when the normal party couldn't meet up.
The way I got most of my friends into Mork Borg was because one of my friends was a super beginner when it came to TTRPGs. I told them how easy it was to pick up and play. Now the Borgs have become our most played system, and has opened the floodgates to us experimenting with different systems, like the Power Rangers TTRPG
Great video!! I’ve run different systems before when we had players not able to make one week. I’ve found it helpful to see if there are pre-made adventures that are designed to be run as an intro adventure or to be run at a con/free rpg day. Call of Cthulhu had a book called Gateways to Terror that was perfect for this. I love the idea of “borrowing” other mechanics or creatures from different systems. It can be a great way to get players thinking about different aspects of TTRPGs plus you can look like a really great GM. I’ve also come to learn that for most of my group D&D 3.5 is their comfort food. There’s nothing wrong with that but knowing when trying a different system with them might be appropriate and not forcing it upon them.
The good thing about my players is that they are very new and open-minded, so for this month I'm planning a "Halloween special" Shadowdark One-shot, and one of them is a huge fan of Avatar the last Airbender, so we're talking about playing Avatar Legends down the line.
Ooooh I love that! 😍 And I totally agree - a lot of my players are newer and have played board games with me so they’re very open to trying other games!
Hot take: DnD it's NOT a beginers friendly game, in fact, it's so hostile with them that TRAUMATIZE groups into thinking other games are as hard to learn as it is
I hear and respect your thoughts. I’d encourage you, however, maybe to choose a different word than traumatize. Anything’s possible, but I sort of doubt that playing a ttrpg is going to create a similar experience to having been raped, abandoned as a child, or lived in the midst of a military conflict. Just a suggestion, go with it if it feels right, don’t if it doesn’t, and happy gaming.
@@khisola Honestly, after seeing how DnD players react to the idea of playing other games I fear that it may be an appropiate word, but I'm open to suggestions
I think your advice to focus on personal enthusiasm for a game is the biggest selling point. Even skeptical players are likely to step outside their comfort zone a bit to give a friend the benefit of the doubt. Knowing your players well helps too. If there is a particular niche they really love, pitch the game that goes wild in that niche and they'll probably set aside any misgivings to give it a go.
Great video. My group is firmly in the camp of "Nah, I'd rather just keep playing D&D." while I've reached a sort of burn out with D&D. My fantasy isn't there so I struggle with prepping for sessions. I might just go for a sort of "I'm in desperate need of a break from D&D and I have a few other systems I want to try. I'm not scrapping our current campaign, but I need a break from it. My current burnout is negatively affecting the campaign and I don't want that to keep going. You're all welcome to join in trying other systems, otherwise I'll just gather another group to play with until I feel like I can return to D&D. " I've tried all the "it isn't as hard to learn as you think, it's fairly easy to pick up especially since you've played D&D already", and the "If we try other systems, we might find out how other systems solves different situations that we might like more and can import to D&D" and such, but it's all just "Nah, I'd rather just play D&D."
I was hating on d&d so hard for so long. now I'm playing d&d again, it's a great game with great lore and the right amount of crunchiness for me. My last d&d session we were turned into small animals and played the rest of the session with mouseritter rules. Thanks for keeping my passion for ttrpgs strong!
That issss SUCH A CUTE IDEA!! 😭 I’m so happy you’re with a good group right now! It makes SUCH a big difference, I’ve definitely played it games where I wasn’t happy but it was so much more about it not being a great fit so I can definitely imagine how it could suck the joy out of things! I really can’t wait to co-opt that Mausritter idea for a feywild session 😂
Mouse ritter is the best haha, I also have the easiest time running DnD, Like my cognitive load is so much lower with Dnd, I love playing other games but I can run DND anyday
Yeah, the Forgotten Realms have a lot of content to it. Sadly not so much for it is actually published in 5E. However, I would argue that Golarion (Pathfinder) has overtaken the Forgotten Realms now for quite some times.
Dolmenwood mentioned!! Another great video! It seems obvious, but it's really important to focus on the positive aspects of trying new games like all of your suggestions in this video. The amount of times people in places like r/rpg will say things like "5e sucks for the thing you're doing" or "you shouldn't play 5e for this type of story" just kills any hope someone will take the advice seriously. No one likes hearing about the how the thing they like sucks actually and they're dumb for trying to play survival horror (for example) in 5e.
I used the excuse of a player being gone for the summer for both of my groups to get them to try TinyD6 Tiny Wastelands. I will soon also have a player DM for a couple of sessions a mini campaign to give me a break, and he will try with Shadowdark. 😊
I'm just commenting because Changeling the Lost was mentioned. Beautiful game! I always sneak a bit of CtL flavour when running other games! Recently started playing with another group. Some of them played a lot of World of Darkness and other games with me, some of them I just met. We decided for a small three session D&D adventure before moving to something else, because it was some sort of "middle ground" between everyone (except for my wife, who despises D&D with all her guts, but agreed to play in the hope of playing something else afterwards). I'm pitching them towards Blades in the Dark or Old Dragon (a Brazilian OSR), and some of them showed intrest in Vampire the Masquerade as well. =)
More games should include pregen characters and one-page rules references to help bring in new players! Like what's often on the back of a DM screen in D&D, it'd be nice if those cheat sheets were already packaged with the product. Great advice all around 🤠
I've been very fortunate that the groups I've played with have often been very open to trying new games. The vast majority of games I've run have been D&D, but I've also gotten people to play Numenera/Cypher System, FFG/Edge Star Wars, Genesys, Savage Worlds, Honor + Intrigue, Pip System, and Sentinel Comics, among other things. Currently running a Call of Cthulhu campaign, and I'm hoping to do a Pathfinder 2e campaign after that.
What a great list of games! I’m very fortunate too, I only occasionally have someone who’s hesitant to try something because they’re nervous about “messing things up”, buuuut that’s the worlds easiest fix so they always end up having a blast!
The timing thing really worked out for me, and I'd add knowing what kinds of systems are likely to appeal to your players. I had a D&D group that was pretty crunchy looking for a new campaign just when PF2e hit Humble Bundle during the OGL kerfuffle and we've been playing Pathfinder since. They'd previously bounced off stuff like Blades in the Dark because some of the players just were not into rules-light (and I'm getting my Scum and Villainy fix with a different group).
If you want a REALLY hard 90* turn, pick up Dr. Grordbort's Scientific Adventure Violence. Edwardian Era, with rocket ships and ray guns. And your fantastic campaign hat, is the equivalent of a shield in D&D. It uses the 5.1 SRD, so the mechanics are all basically the same, it just tastes wildly different. It's based off a series of graphic novels, so if you pick one up and as Stephanie suggested, leave it on the table for players to peruse between turns, you can off the cuff suggest that you are pretty sure you can throw together a one shot using that world, even without showing them the game book. It's not railroading, I SWEAR!
@@StephaniePlaysGames I backed the kickstarter a few years back. Took my girlfriend to her first game store, and they had a copy on the shelf. She was instantly drawn to it, so now I have to find people to play at least one session with her.
The hard turn is good advice. The one time my main 5E group got away from 5E was when we too the hard turn to three short campaigns of Fantasy Flight Star Wars.
Oooh I’ve heard good things about that game! And it’s wild - some people *need* a similar frame of reference but others need something _very different_ otherwise they’ll spend the whole time comparing the two systems 😂 different strokes for different folks!
In my experience it comes down to literacy/desire to read. Most people just want to play but aren't interested in reading. I know there's a lot of cross over between people who play ttrpgs & people who read for pleasure, but with the hobby having such a large player base now (good thing!), there's definitely a huge chunk of non-readers who got into d&d first and are daunted by the feeling that they have to read stuff to play another game. If this resonates with you, I highly recommend games like Mothership. Super fast character creation and you learn how to play by playing!
i Started by running one shots using non D&D systems, I started with a one of of Old Gods of Appalachia, then one offs of Numenera, and also did Blade Runner and Vaesen. I am now at a point where I am running 2 Old Gods Campaigns, 1 Numenera Campaign, a blade runner campaign, and there's HUGE demand for a bunch of one shots on a variety of systems.
Have you played Pathfinder 2E? My group tried a PF2E oneshot, and we were positively surprised by it. It's not as difficult as people say it is (especially if you've already played dnd) and it seems much more intuitive than 5E does, which makes the job of the GM significantly easier. I was also glad to find out how many free sources there are (archives of nethys, pf2easy, etc) or how affordable other sources are. The character creation was a big overwhelming in the beginning, but there are so many good things about it to balance the learning curve.
I have! 😊 I agree, I think the biggest learning curve is character creation but otherwise it’s only slightly more crunchy than D&D (at least in my opinion).
I run a variety of non DnD games at my local game store and have been running Vaesen for the last couple of weeks, we wrapped up the mystery the other day and when I asked everybody what they wanted to play next they unanimously said "more of this". Vaesen more than any game I run seems to encourage or even demand the players to try to fully inhabit the characters and role play them for all they're worth.
I love that! 😊 That’s a really interesting thing to look into, because I agree and I think playing Vaesen is one of the few times I felt like I was able to really buy in to my pregen character too.
Another - often overlooked - aspect of players who have only played D&D expecting all games to be as hard as D&D is is... Even if they're learning something on par with D&D in terms of complexity, that's still going to be easier to learn for them. Because when learning you're first system, you're learning how to engage with TTRPGs. And I think people sometimes forget how different TTRPGs are to other games, and other forms of roleplay, depending on the direction people have come to their first game is.
I've never understood this issue. When I want to play a different rule set, we play a different rule set. The players only other option is to not play as no one else around here wants to GM. I live in a college town and it's still incredibly hard to find a GM.
She touches on why during the early days, only one person in the group was the "Forever DM" and they (we ) were so adamant about players not owning or reading the DMG. Ignorance of all the rules, made the game more fun for the players and made the DM's job a little easier. There's a sense of wonder for new players who are brought in in a certain way. It's a shame they eventually grow up, learn and start gaming the game. Well, maybe not a shame as that's just a different kind of fun. But you can't go back, as far as I can tell.
I think your final piece of advice is the best. Mileage may vary as you say. But honesty is usually the best strategy. For me, it's D&D's bloat with all the sub-classes, even though a lot are off limits for our current campaign. Next stop is Shadowdark. After that? Probably Dragonbane. Love the rules, the way monsters play, and the gorgeous art. I have run a short Call of Cthulhu campaign. (Is there any other kind?) Plus Toon which always goes down well.
I think that all of the options are the one thing that keep me playing things like D&D and PF! I love the kid in a candy store feeling 😂 I haven't tried Toon before though - I'll absolutely have to check it out because THAT is a fun premise!! 😍
This is all good info. As a perpetual DM of ~30 years. 1) unless it’s “upgrading editions” and players are universally excited- don’t change mid-campaign 2) Don’t burden your players with your desire to change by playing calling about “that other system” mid-campaign 3) players will play what you run. The campaign pitch is the story not the system. 4) embrace paper 😊
I have 3 groups only one has branched out to other games, but I am OK with that. The one group that has branched out I have found games that I'll play, but only because I am hanging out with friends not because I enjoyed those games. I have found that if you are going to be the Game Master for a new rule set you really need to know it before dragging everyone else along. EZD6 is a great game but not knowing how spells worked really slowed the game down when we had someone attempt to cast spells.
Yesss! It only takes one group to run experiments on 😂 A trick a friend taught me before I even knew solo rpgs were a thing was to play a ttrpg by yourself for like an hour (1 combat, 1 social scenario) so that you have a chance to think about how you want to explain a rule and I thought that was very clever!
I have only had any success starting a new system after we ended a longer D&D campaign. I had a GM introduce Shadowrun after we ended a year long D&D game. In another instance I started d20 Modern game after we ended a long D&D game. (They made a 5e compatible version of this game called Everyday Heroes) Also if we have too many people cancel to play an RPG we do a boardgames night to keep some sort of game night going.
I don’t think you mentioned when there is a single holdout in a group. Everyone in our group, with one notable exception, is open to most systems. However there is one player that only plays games with Finder or Dragons in the title. They have flaked out on joining multiple systems (Scum and Villainy, Tiny Dungeon, Mork Borg, Monster of the Week, Delta Green), just to name a few. They never say they won’t play outright, but make a character and inevitably never show up. They are a min-max power gamer and if they can’t “build” some power fantasy, they check out. I don’t think even they are self aware enough to realize this is the root cause. So now we just start games, always invite them to join, then they don’t show up.
I kind of covered at the end but not super explicitly- but I’d do pretty much what you did! If there’s one holdout, it’s okay. I’d invite them and if they weren’t interested, I’d invite them again for future new campaigns with low expectations out of politeness. I just wouldn’t take it personally or hold it against them, I’d maybe even have a 1-on-1 talk and ask if they’d prefer only specific types of invitations so they don’t feel obligated 🤷♀️
@@StephaniePlaysGames I feel bad for people being close-minded that they miss out on games. I do think as adults, we should just be upfront about what games we do or do not want to play. Making overtures to play, but failing to, is immature. It all boils down to Seth Skorkowskys social contract he talks about in his videos. You are doing good work by making your videos and maybe changing some minds.
I DM my family and I had them play Root RPG, for my birthday, and at the end of the one shot I tried the conclusion to something in our main campaign...they thought that was so cool!
Yesss I’ve been dying to try Root! I love the board game so I’m SO curious! I love that you were able to tie it back into your main campaign, that’s such a cool move and now I’m going to start looking for opportunities like that 😂
Player cancellations have let me run Into the Odd and Dragonbane, and that list will expand. I also just run one shots online for ad hoc groups from my discord and that’s been a blast.
@@StephaniePlaysGames oh they are most fun! Knave will be coming up soon. My random one shots have let me play Forbidden Lands and Symbaroum. There are so many games!!!
when I started playing TTRPGs we played so many different systems because a good friend's boyfriend was our GM and we didnt know anything about TTRPGs AT ALL! And he was like: "oh, i have so many systems I want to play what do you guys want to use?" and we just told him he can choose whatever because we had no experience. And only recently my group picked up Dungeons and Dragons and let me tell you it was really hard for me xD In my opinion DnD is not beginner friendly, even tho we are not complete beginners and are playing DnD for around 2 years now I still struggle with all the rules. And I actually hate fighting in DnD - yes you have a ton of different options and I cant really tell you what it is (maybe my group and I are just bad at fights, who knows) but fighting in DnD is kind of annoying to me because it takes soo much time. Time I'd rather spend on roleplaying all together
I don't like running D&D. It's too "crunchy" for me as a GM. It was difficult at first to get people to play something else, but through my excitement and peppering rules in here and there I was able to get some players interested in Troika. I'm hoping to get a Shadowdark game going in the next few months as well.
To try a different system i had to explain to my normal group 5e was feeling like a chore and not fun for me now we are playing vagabond by land of the blind
For me the thing is easy, if the players only want to play (only a certain edition of) DnD, then they should not only be players, but also game masters. Because especially, DnD creates a huge amount of work for the game master. If they do not want to run it, but you want to run it, then get new players. That's especially easy with DnD, because there are so many more players than game masters in that. That may sound harsh, but if they want to get you to do a thing you do not want but would not do the same, those persons are using you.
Yes seed, and honesty is the best weapons one use to great effect in converting heretical limited e5 players to the glory of Warhammer 40k! The Emperor Protect 🤴🤴📣📣Carry on Sister of Battle ⚔⚔
I would like to try VtM and Call of Cthulhu but I would actually like to play as a PC not GM... but we'll see I have the VtM guide as I was supposed to play and I know the basic rules
Also, keep in mind what your players DON'T like. A couple of years ago, I was very frustrated because I was burned out on D&D, but the only non-D&D game I could find was Call of Cthulhu, and I'm not into horror.
I guess in my experience players rarely spend that kind of money if any on books 🤷♀️ And a lot of other systems have free start up rules for the players which is super nice!
@@StephaniePlaysGames Yup and those that do spend their money have a loyalty towards it to protect / justify their investment. Kind alike a video game console. I don't blame them. (I do the same!)
i explained the simple differences of my game to dnd and what the focus is...now i have a few 5e and osr players....:) check us out on itch ... keep 'em rollin'
Reason #4: most games and certainly the vast majority of D&D alternatives (outside Paizo) are significantly simpler than D&D, even 5th edition. If a significant factor of your enjoyment of ttrpgs is the "crunchiness" of character building, play, and optimization, then OSR (to pick one example) just don't cut it. I understand why you wouldn't bring this up, because... there pretty much is no solution, because there are no alternatives with a 3rd edition to 5th edition level of complexity, yet with the OSR sensibility :( I would LOVE a game that stayed as compatible to D&D 5E as possible but retuned the entire experience away from how D&D actively works to make you a hero even when you don't deserve it, and more into OSR territory where life can be hard and unfair and a high level hero really feels earned. Instead of selling the game as a quicker streamlined "back to basics" experience, as if it was the number of stats on the paper that makes the OSR feeling impossible... :-/
Because D&D 5e is so much simplier than its predecessors, Wizards touts that it is an easy game. This is not true, but when players are asked to change, they have been gaslit into thinking other games are just as hard.
Yeah, I think “ease of learning” is so hard to gauge because it probably DOES feel easy to them 😂 And learning most ttrpgs after D&D is significantly easier because you have a general idea of what things you might need to learn. But newer players absolutely get scared of trying things if they suck at remembering their spells and 10 special abilities in a game they’ve been playing for 2 years 😂 Definitely understandable!
@@StephaniePlaysGames Take Ars Magica, if you forget your spells you can just make one up on the fly. And considering that Johnathan Tweet ported virtues and skills as well as the Core Mechanic into 3.0 D&D (I mean the Barbarian is totally based on the Berserk Virtue) then that can be used as a bridge.
Probably because DM's spend so much money investing in the game whereas the players, well.. Half of them don't even buy the phb. Lol. So it's a big cost output you don't want to abandon sometimes.
Well it’s usually the DMs who are the ones who are frustrated that their players don’t want to try other games… Not to mention that even for DMs it doesn’t make their other material obsolete 🤷♀️ I play D&D _and_ other games
@@StephaniePlaysGames fair. I just know I've invested about a thousand dollars into d&d 5e and addons lol so it's tough to want to keep spending more on other games I guess. New subscriber to your channel. Enjoying it so far!
@@simcptmike That's _totally understandable_! I feel like most systems aren't NEARLY as expensive as D&D is to buy into if that helps? 😂 I always scour DriveThruRPG for sales, popular ones like Dragonbane and Mothership get marked down pretty frequently! And thank you very much for the kind words! 😊
… what about this video is anti D&D? Do you only play Uno? Or Mario Kart? Or baseball? You can play as many TTRPGs as you want and like all of them last time I checked 🤷♀️
What are your favorite tips and tricks for getting players to try other games? 🤔
Lol zero luck with that
Noooo! 😂 Honestly I have very lovely players across all my groups, but if I didn't I'd probably ambush them with a one shot in an easy whenever there was a last minute cancellation! It's a lot harder to say to no to someone who has everything set up!
@@StephaniePlaysGames that is the technique I will be employing the Ole pit trap. Don't pay no attention to those leaves.
I used to leave the books laying around. Players waiting for their turn often picked them up, and eventually started asking to try them.
One thing that wasn't mentioned is game stores! Most game stores will have slots for games, game schedules online, and will advertise your game for you.
Biggest pro for this method: your table will be comprised of people who are interested enough in the system you're running to show up at a store and try it out with randoms.
Possible cons: assholes are everywhere and game stores are no exception; your game is too niche and no one shows up (good luck finding a table for Mormon Cowboy Simulator).
I run an open table Old-School Essentials game on Sundays at one of my local game stores and I've met a lot of cool people doing it who are interested in the game I'm running. I play in another group in that same store that changes systems every three months because we all like trying new games.
The struggle to convince players not every system is as hard to learn as D&D is real 😂. Great video, thank you.
Thanks for the kind words! 😊
I know someone who plays D&D in another group and has admitted they don't play anything except for fighters because they don't understand magic in D&D and I'm slowly trying to get them to play something else with my group, possibly Shadowdark.
I'm scheming getting my players into Shadowdark, Cy_Borg, and Mothership, so this video is much appreciated!
Yesss those are all such good choices of games! I’ve been looking for an opportunity to pull out Cy_Borg too 😊
I'm really interested in Mothership. I've heard that game wants me dead.
Just want to say thanks for always approaching your topics from a positive light "Do this to be better" instead of the all too common "This sucks!" type of reaction. It's always a pleasure to have your videos come across my feed.
Thank you for the kind words! 🥹 Honestly I can’t even help it, life is too short and there’s too many cool things to try to be that negative!
Thanks!
I love that you grab folks from art classes and just go “hey, we’re playing this”!
I definitely think my own excitement has been the best pitch. If I really want to play, my players will be excited too.
Back in college my 4 players lived together. When one of them asked about Shadowrun I dropped two copies of the core rules and a few supplements off in their dorm room. A week later they had all read the rules and 3 had made characters. So we canceled DnD that week for a session zero.
Yesss! That’s awesome, I love when players are equally as enthusiastic about things! 😊
Been DMing since the Red Box. Playing 5E. Running Shadowdark. Just ran a game of Maze Rats blind. I had briefly looked over the rules months ago, grabbed a 1st level Shadowdark adventure that I had not reviewed. Handed out paper and pencils. We were gaming in about 20 min. Had a blast and the players want more.
Yayyy that’s awesome! Maze Rats is a really great system and Shadowdark has some super fun adventure building!
Cannot recommend taking advantage of a player missing a session to help pitch a one-shot of a new game, it's how I got my players to play Monster of the Week which became it's own campaign after our D&D campaign ended. And it was a way to get that player who initially missed that one session to play a whole new game and not feel left out in the end. Btw great TTRPG recs in this video, trying to get my players into Mothership ahead of spooky season!
Yesss! I love how that worked out for you guys! 😊 And Mothership is soooo good for spooky season!
Excellent video! Always love playing more games.
Secret Tip #4, start a youtube channel, build a community of other youtubers, and then just start playing a bunch of one shots with them whenever you can.
Oh, is that just me? 🤣
Bahaha just spend hours learning how to light, film, edit, and package and YOU TOO can finally have access to unlimited types of games!!! 🤣
@@StephaniePlaysGames Still one of the easier ways to play a variety of games 😂
This is the way
Fortunately, the group I've been playing with since COVID lockdown (over Zoom/Roll20) is very open to new games, and 3 of us have taken on the GM role at different times. We started out with Eclipse Phase, and we've played 1e Gamma World, Savage Worlds: Sticks & Stones, Covert Ops, Retro (Caltrop Core), Deadlands: Noir, Justice Inc., and the Old School Essentials version of Dark Places & Demogorgons. Right now I'm running a house-ruled version of the old Middle-earth Roleplaying (MERP). These range from true old-school to modern style to OSR, and 4-page, super-light-rules to extreme crunch. We've had fun with all of them.
I've been playing TTRPGs for many years and I used to play several different systems, but in the last several years I've really only played D&D 5E. I really need to branch out again. I think your idea of having a one shot ready, using a different system, for when players miss a session is a good idea to give other systems a chance without having to end your D&D campaign. I had one group where that is basically what we did when the normal party couldn't meet up.
The way I got most of my friends into Mork Borg was because one of my friends was a super beginner when it came to TTRPGs. I told them how easy it was to pick up and play. Now the Borgs have become our most played system, and has opened the floodgates to us experimenting with different systems, like the Power Rangers TTRPG
I love this! I agree - Mork Borg is a big crowd pleaser! 😊
Great video!! I’ve run different systems before when we had players not able to make one week. I’ve found it helpful to see if there are pre-made adventures that are designed to be run as an intro adventure or to be run at a con/free rpg day. Call of Cthulhu had a book called Gateways to Terror that was perfect for this.
I love the idea of “borrowing” other mechanics or creatures from different systems. It can be a great way to get players thinking about different aspects of TTRPGs plus you can look like a really great GM.
I’ve also come to learn that for most of my group D&D 3.5 is their comfort food. There’s nothing wrong with that but knowing when trying a different system with them might be appropriate and not forcing it upon them.
YES! Comfort food is SUCH a good way of explaining it! And looking for games meant for running at cons or for free rpg day is brilliant! 😊
The good thing about my players is that they are very new and open-minded, so for this month I'm planning a "Halloween special" Shadowdark One-shot, and one of them is a huge fan of Avatar the last Airbender, so we're talking about playing Avatar Legends down the line.
Ooooh I love that! 😍 And I totally agree - a lot of my players are newer and have played board games with me so they’re very open to trying other games!
Hot take: DnD it's NOT a beginers friendly game, in fact, it's so hostile with them that TRAUMATIZE groups into thinking other games are as hard to learn as it is
I hear and respect your thoughts. I’d encourage you, however, maybe to choose a different word than traumatize. Anything’s possible, but I sort of doubt that playing a ttrpg is going to create a similar experience to having been raped, abandoned as a child, or lived in the midst of a military conflict. Just a suggestion, go with it if it feels right, don’t if it doesn’t, and happy gaming.
@@khisola Honestly, after seeing how DnD players react to the idea of playing other games I fear that it may be an appropiate word, but I'm open to suggestions
I think your advice to focus on personal enthusiasm for a game is the biggest selling point. Even skeptical players are likely to step outside their comfort zone a bit to give a friend the benefit of the doubt. Knowing your players well helps too. If there is a particular niche they really love, pitch the game that goes wild in that niche and they'll probably set aside any misgivings to give it a go.
Great video. My group is firmly in the camp of "Nah, I'd rather just keep playing D&D." while I've reached a sort of burn out with D&D. My fantasy isn't there so I struggle with prepping for sessions. I might just go for a sort of "I'm in desperate need of a break from D&D and I have a few other systems I want to try. I'm not scrapping our current campaign, but I need a break from it. My current burnout is negatively affecting the campaign and I don't want that to keep going. You're all welcome to join in trying other systems, otherwise I'll just gather another group to play with until I feel like I can return to D&D. "
I've tried all the "it isn't as hard to learn as you think, it's fairly easy to pick up especially since you've played D&D already", and the "If we try other systems, we might find out how other systems solves different situations that we might like more and can import to D&D" and such, but it's all just "Nah, I'd rather just play D&D."
I was hating on d&d so hard for so long. now I'm playing d&d again, it's a great game with great lore and the right amount of crunchiness for me. My last d&d session we were turned into small animals and played the rest of the session with mouseritter rules. Thanks for keeping my passion for ttrpgs strong!
That issss SUCH A CUTE IDEA!! 😭 I’m so happy you’re with a good group right now! It makes SUCH a big difference, I’ve definitely played it games where I wasn’t happy but it was so much more about it not being a great fit so I can definitely imagine how it could suck the joy out of things! I really can’t wait to co-opt that Mausritter idea for a feywild session 😂
Mouse ritter is the best haha, I also have the easiest time running DnD, Like my cognitive load is so much lower with Dnd, I love playing other games but I can run DND anyday
Yeah, the Forgotten Realms have a lot of content to it. Sadly not so much for it is actually published in 5E. However, I would argue that Golarion (Pathfinder) has overtaken the Forgotten Realms now for quite some times.
@@TheddunTOSS I'll check it out! I don't know anything about Pathfinder lore.
Dolmenwood, it's the best TTRPG available currently.
Dolmenwood mentioned!! Another great video!
It seems obvious, but it's really important to focus on the positive aspects of trying new games like all of your suggestions in this video.
The amount of times people in places like r/rpg will say things like "5e sucks for the thing you're doing" or "you shouldn't play 5e for this type of story" just kills any hope someone will take the advice seriously. No one likes hearing about the how the thing they like sucks actually and they're dumb for trying to play survival horror (for example) in 5e.
Right? I never understood people who take that approach 😂
I used the excuse of a player being gone for the summer for both of my groups to get them to try TinyD6 Tiny Wastelands. I will soon also have a player DM for a couple of sessions a mini campaign to give me a break, and he will try with Shadowdark. 😊
Ahhhh I’m so jealous! I keep trying to push more of my players into GMing, that sounds like such a good time!
Brilliant, friendly, and the most amazing list of links to other games ever! (Thank you.)
Thanks for the kind words! 😊
Excellent choices and nice discussion of how you can entice players to step out of their comfort zone. Feels like a very needed discussion.
Thanks for the kind words! 😊
I'm just commenting because Changeling the Lost was mentioned. Beautiful game! I always sneak a bit of CtL flavour when running other games!
Recently started playing with another group. Some of them played a lot of World of Darkness and other games with me, some of them I just met. We decided for a small three session D&D adventure before moving to something else, because it was some sort of "middle ground" between everyone (except for my wife, who despises D&D with all her guts, but agreed to play in the hope of playing something else afterwards). I'm pitching them towards Blades in the Dark or Old Dragon (a Brazilian OSR), and some of them showed intrest in Vampire the Masquerade as well. =)
I totally agree! At least 50% of my feywild is inspired by Changeling, their lore is just soooo good! 😊
More games should include pregen characters and one-page rules references to help bring in new players! Like what's often on the back of a DM screen in D&D, it'd be nice if those cheat sheets were already packaged with the product.
Great advice all around 🤠
I've been very fortunate that the groups I've played with have often been very open to trying new games. The vast majority of games I've run have been D&D, but I've also gotten people to play Numenera/Cypher System, FFG/Edge Star Wars, Genesys, Savage Worlds, Honor + Intrigue, Pip System, and Sentinel Comics, among other things. Currently running a Call of Cthulhu campaign, and I'm hoping to do a Pathfinder 2e campaign after that.
What a great list of games! I’m very fortunate too, I only occasionally have someone who’s hesitant to try something because they’re nervous about “messing things up”, buuuut that’s the worlds easiest fix so they always end up having a blast!
The timing thing really worked out for me, and I'd add knowing what kinds of systems are likely to appeal to your players. I had a D&D group that was pretty crunchy looking for a new campaign just when PF2e hit Humble Bundle during the OGL kerfuffle and we've been playing Pathfinder since. They'd previously bounced off stuff like Blades in the Dark because some of the players just were not into rules-light (and I'm getting my Scum and Villainy fix with a different group).
For sure! I think people always assume players want less complicated games, but I’m someone who also enjoys some crunch!
If you want a REALLY hard 90* turn, pick up Dr. Grordbort's Scientific Adventure Violence. Edwardian Era, with rocket ships and ray guns. And your fantastic campaign hat, is the equivalent of a shield in D&D. It uses the 5.1 SRD, so the mechanics are all basically the same, it just tastes wildly different. It's based off a series of graphic novels, so if you pick one up and as Stephanie suggested, leave it on the table for players to peruse between turns, you can off the cuff suggest that you are pretty sure you can throw together a one shot using that world, even without showing them the game book. It's not railroading, I SWEAR!
Oh. My. Gosh. I’ve never heard of that one and I _cannot wait to read it_ and find an occasion to pull it out on 😂
@@StephaniePlaysGames I backed the kickstarter a few years back. Took my girlfriend to her first game store, and they had a copy on the shelf. She was instantly drawn to it, so now I have to find people to play at least one session with her.
The hard turn is good advice. The one time my main 5E group got away from 5E was when we too the hard turn to three short campaigns of Fantasy Flight Star Wars.
Oooh I’ve heard good things about that game! And it’s wild - some people *need* a similar frame of reference but others need something _very different_ otherwise they’ll spend the whole time comparing the two systems 😂 different strokes for different folks!
In my experience it comes down to literacy/desire to read. Most people just want to play but aren't interested in reading. I know there's a lot of cross over between people who play ttrpgs & people who read for pleasure, but with the hobby having such a large player base now (good thing!), there's definitely a huge chunk of non-readers who got into d&d first and are daunted by the feeling that they have to read stuff to play another game. If this resonates with you, I highly recommend games like Mothership. Super fast character creation and you learn how to play by playing!
i Started by running one shots using non D&D systems, I started with a one of of Old Gods of Appalachia, then one offs of Numenera, and also did Blade Runner and Vaesen. I am now at a point where I am running 2 Old Gods Campaigns, 1 Numenera Campaign, a blade runner campaign, and there's HUGE demand for a bunch of one shots on a variety of systems.
Yesss those are all such good games! Old Gods is criminally underrated!
Whoa really happy to see Vagabond here!
Taron’s stuff is always great!
When I’d run an original game w/ players, I just designed a character sheet/playmat that has cheat sheet reminders and walks through turn phases.
Yes! Little visual reminders of the important bits make SUCH a big difference! 😊
Have you played Pathfinder 2E? My group tried a PF2E oneshot, and we were positively surprised by it. It's not as difficult as people say it is (especially if you've already played dnd) and it seems much more intuitive than 5E does, which makes the job of the GM significantly easier. I was also glad to find out how many free sources there are (archives of nethys, pf2easy, etc) or how affordable other sources are. The character creation was a big overwhelming in the beginning, but there are so many good things about it to balance the learning curve.
I have! 😊 I agree, I think the biggest learning curve is character creation but otherwise it’s only slightly more crunchy than D&D (at least in my opinion).
I run a variety of non DnD games at my local game store and have been running Vaesen for the last couple of weeks, we wrapped up the mystery the other day and when I asked everybody what they wanted to play next they unanimously said "more of this". Vaesen more than any game I run seems to encourage or even demand the players to try to fully inhabit the characters and role play them for all they're worth.
I love that! 😊 That’s a really interesting thing to look into, because I agree and I think playing Vaesen is one of the few times I felt like I was able to really buy in to my pregen character too.
I did the, "Hey, since player X can't make it tonight and canceling let's do a one off." Works every time and now my players LOVE DCC.
Yesss I love that! 😊
Another - often overlooked - aspect of players who have only played D&D expecting all games to be as hard as D&D is is... Even if they're learning something on par with D&D in terms of complexity, that's still going to be easier to learn for them. Because when learning you're first system, you're learning how to engage with TTRPGs. And I think people sometimes forget how different TTRPGs are to other games, and other forms of roleplay, depending on the direction people have come to their first game is.
EXACTLY! Once you have a frame of reference for how TTRPGs work it’s soooo much easier to learn more! 😊
I've never understood this issue. When I want to play a different rule set, we play a different rule set. The players only other option is to not play as no one else around here wants to GM. I live in a college town and it's still incredibly hard to find a GM.
I tell my players what we're doing. AND THEY LIKE IT!
Also strongly recommend DCC RPG, there is one of the best magic systems and also pretty funky and creative warrior class (suddenly)
She touches on why during the early days, only one person in the group was the "Forever DM" and they (we ) were so adamant about players not owning or reading the DMG. Ignorance of all the rules, made the game more fun for the players and made the DM's job a little easier. There's a sense of wonder for new players who are brought in in a certain way. It's a shame they eventually grow up, learn and start gaming the game. Well, maybe not a shame as that's just a different kind of fun. But you can't go back, as far as I can tell.
I think your final piece of advice is the best. Mileage may vary as you say. But honesty is usually the best strategy.
For me, it's D&D's bloat with all the sub-classes, even though a lot are off limits for our current campaign. Next stop is Shadowdark. After that? Probably Dragonbane. Love the rules, the way monsters play, and the gorgeous art.
I have run a short Call of Cthulhu campaign. (Is there any other kind?) Plus Toon which always goes down well.
I think that all of the options are the one thing that keep me playing things like D&D and PF! I love the kid in a candy store feeling 😂 I haven't tried Toon before though - I'll absolutely have to check it out because THAT is a fun premise!! 😍
The way I have sold it to players is, DnD is like a burger from your favourite burger joint. It's not going anywhere but you might like to try Sushi?
Yesss! That is such a good way of explaining it!
This is all good info. As a perpetual DM of ~30 years. 1) unless it’s “upgrading editions” and players are universally excited- don’t change mid-campaign 2) Don’t burden your players with your desire to change by playing calling about “that other system” mid-campaign 3) players will play what you run. The campaign pitch is the story not the system. 4) embrace paper 😊
I have 3 groups only one has branched out to other games, but I am OK with that. The one group that has branched out I have found games that I'll play, but only because I am hanging out with friends not because I enjoyed those games. I have found that if you are going to be the Game Master for a new rule set you really need to know it before dragging everyone else along. EZD6 is a great game but not knowing how spells worked really slowed the game down when we had someone attempt to cast spells.
Yesss! It only takes one group to run experiments on 😂 A trick a friend taught me before I even knew solo rpgs were a thing was to play a ttrpg by yourself for like an hour (1 combat, 1 social scenario) so that you have a chance to think about how you want to explain a rule and I thought that was very clever!
How do we get people to help us build a TTRPG system?
The deal at our table is: they play almost everything I am willing to GM and I play almost everything they are willing to GM.
I have only had any success starting a new system after we ended a longer D&D campaign. I had a GM introduce Shadowrun after we ended a year long D&D game.
In another instance I started d20 Modern game after we ended a long D&D game. (They made a 5e compatible version of this game called Everyday Heroes)
Also if we have too many people cancel to play an RPG we do a boardgames night to keep some sort of game night going.
I don’t think you mentioned when there is a single holdout in a group. Everyone in our group, with one notable exception, is open to most systems. However there is one player that only plays games with Finder or Dragons in the title. They have flaked out on joining multiple systems (Scum and Villainy, Tiny Dungeon, Mork Borg, Monster of the Week, Delta Green), just to name a few. They never say they won’t play outright, but make a character and inevitably never show up. They are a min-max power gamer and if they can’t “build” some power fantasy, they check out. I don’t think even they are self aware enough to realize this is the root cause.
So now we just start games, always invite them to join, then they don’t show up.
I kind of covered at the end but not super explicitly- but I’d do pretty much what you did! If there’s one holdout, it’s okay. I’d invite them and if they weren’t interested, I’d invite them again for future new campaigns with low expectations out of politeness. I just wouldn’t take it personally or hold it against them, I’d maybe even have a 1-on-1 talk and ask if they’d prefer only specific types of invitations so they don’t feel obligated 🤷♀️
@@StephaniePlaysGames I feel bad for people being close-minded that they miss out on games. I do think as adults, we should just be upfront about what games we do or do not want to play. Making overtures to play, but failing to, is immature. It all boils down to Seth Skorkowskys social contract he talks about in his videos. You are doing good work by making your videos and maybe changing some minds.
I DM my family and I had them play Root RPG, for my birthday, and at the end of the one shot I tried the conclusion to something in our main campaign...they thought that was so cool!
Yesss I’ve been dying to try Root! I love the board game so I’m SO curious! I love that you were able to tie it back into your main campaign, that’s such a cool move and now I’m going to start looking for opportunities like that 😂
Player cancellations have let me run Into the Odd and Dragonbane, and that list will expand. I also just run one shots online for ad hoc groups from my discord and that’s been a blast.
Oooo those are both really good choices! 😊
@@StephaniePlaysGames oh they are most fun! Knave will be coming up soon. My random one shots have let me play Forbidden Lands and Symbaroum. There are so many games!!!
when I started playing TTRPGs we played so many different systems because a good friend's boyfriend was our GM and we didnt know anything about TTRPGs AT ALL! And he was like: "oh, i have so many systems I want to play what do you guys want to use?" and we just told him he can choose whatever because we had no experience. And only recently my group picked up Dungeons and Dragons and let me tell you it was really hard for me xD In my opinion DnD is not beginner friendly, even tho we are not complete beginners and are playing DnD for around 2 years now I still struggle with all the rules. And I actually hate fighting in DnD - yes you have a ton of different options and I cant really tell you what it is (maybe my group and I are just bad at fights, who knows) but fighting in DnD is kind of annoying to me because it takes soo much time. Time I'd rather spend on roleplaying all together
I don't like running D&D. It's too "crunchy" for me as a GM. It was difficult at first to get people to play something else, but through my excitement and peppering rules in here and there I was able to get some players interested in Troika. I'm hoping to get a Shadowdark game going in the next few months as well.
Ooooh good picks! 😊
To try a different system i had to explain to my normal group 5e was feeling like a chore and not fun for me now we are playing vagabond by land of the blind
Ahhhh that’s awesome! I actually _just_ finished reading through it, Taron does such great work and I can’t wait to get to play it!
PRegen characters with one shots, and rules briefings that are 15 minutes or less before getting into play is critical to adoption of non D&D systems.
Totally agree - players want to get to the part where they’re actually *playing*! 😂
For me the thing is easy, if the players only want to play (only a certain edition of) DnD, then they should not only be players, but also game masters. Because especially, DnD creates a huge amount of work for the game master. If they do not want to run it, but you want to run it, then get new players. That's especially easy with DnD, because there are so many more players than game masters in that. That may sound harsh, but if they want to get you to do a thing you do not want but would not do the same, those persons are using you.
Yes seed, and honesty is the best weapons one use to great effect in converting heretical limited e5 players to the glory of Warhammer 40k! The Emperor Protect 🤴🤴📣📣Carry on Sister of Battle ⚔⚔
A good non heroic fantasy is a huge stepping stone to alternative rules adoption.
I would like to try VtM and Call of Cthulhu but I would actually like to play as a PC not GM... but we'll see I have the VtM guide as I was supposed to play and I know the basic rules
I have that problem SO OFTEN! There’s so many games I also want the chance to be a player in 😂
@@StephaniePlaysGames I'm just happy that I can finally play in a D&D campaign for the first tie in years... it's so odd :)
Woohoo another video great job
Thanks for the kind words! 😊
@StephaniePlaysGames love your videos hope mine get there some day
Great video!
Thanks for the kind words! 😊
Also, keep in mind what your players DON'T like. A couple of years ago, I was very frustrated because I was burned out on D&D, but the only non-D&D game I could find was Call of Cthulhu, and I'm not into horror.
Yes! Definitely don't pitch things you're not interested in - you need to have fun too!
Another reason that people only really want to play D&D is that they have spent over $/£/€100 on the books, which is a lot of money.
I guess in my experience players rarely spend that kind of money if any on books 🤷♀️ And a lot of other systems have free start up rules for the players which is super nice!
@@StephaniePlaysGames Yup and those that do spend their money have a loyalty towards it to protect / justify their investment. Kind alike a video game console. I don't blame them. (I do the same!)
i explained the simple differences of my game to dnd and what the focus is...now i have a few 5e and osr players....:) check us out on itch ... keep 'em rollin'
Reason #4: most games and certainly the vast majority of D&D alternatives (outside Paizo) are significantly simpler than D&D, even 5th edition.
If a significant factor of your enjoyment of ttrpgs is the "crunchiness" of character building, play, and optimization, then OSR (to pick one example) just don't cut it.
I understand why you wouldn't bring this up, because... there pretty much is no solution, because there are no alternatives with a 3rd edition to 5th edition level of complexity, yet with the OSR sensibility :(
I would LOVE a game that stayed as compatible to D&D 5E as possible but retuned the entire experience away from how D&D actively works to make you a hero even when you don't deserve it, and more into OSR territory where life can be hard and unfair and a high level hero really feels earned.
Instead of selling the game as a quicker streamlined "back to basics" experience, as if it was the number of stats on the paper that makes the OSR feeling impossible... :-/
One Piece mentioned 🏴☠️
A campaign concept I’d love to run, but then I’d be very jealous because I want to play in it 100x more 😂
@@StephaniePlaysGamesThat's the premise for all my games LMAO, "Oh boy I'd love to play in this one."
Because D&D 5e is so much simplier than its predecessors, Wizards touts that it is an easy game. This is not true, but when players are asked to change, they have been gaslit into thinking other games are just as hard.
Yeah, I think “ease of learning” is so hard to gauge because it probably DOES feel easy to them 😂 And learning most ttrpgs after D&D is significantly easier because you have a general idea of what things you might need to learn.
But newer players absolutely get scared of trying things if they suck at remembering their spells and 10 special abilities in a game they’ve been playing for 2 years 😂 Definitely understandable!
@@StephaniePlaysGames Take Ars Magica, if you forget your spells you can just make one up on the fly. And considering that Johnathan Tweet ported virtues and skills as well as the Core Mechanic into 3.0 D&D (I mean the Barbarian is totally based on the Berserk Virtue) then that can be used as a bridge.
This is great advice!
Thanks for the kind words! 😊
Probably because DM's spend so much money investing in the game whereas the players, well.. Half of them don't even buy the phb. Lol. So it's a big cost output you don't want to abandon sometimes.
Well it’s usually the DMs who are the ones who are frustrated that their players don’t want to try other games… Not to mention that even for DMs it doesn’t make their other material obsolete 🤷♀️ I play D&D _and_ other games
@@StephaniePlaysGames fair. I just know I've invested about a thousand dollars into d&d 5e and addons lol so it's tough to want to keep spending more on other games I guess. New subscriber to your channel. Enjoying it so far!
@@simcptmike That's _totally understandable_! I feel like most systems aren't NEARLY as expensive as D&D is to buy into if that helps? 😂 I always scour DriveThruRPG for sales, popular ones like Dragonbane and Mothership get marked down pretty frequently! And thank you very much for the kind words! 😊
Be careful with only thinking about what makes your players happy. If you as a DM is not happy, no one will be, and eventually, there will be no game.
Try making anti D&D videos without resorting to including ‘D&D’ twice in the title. Oh, the clicks….
… what about this video is anti D&D? Do you only play Uno? Or Mario Kart? Or baseball? You can play as many TTRPGs as you want and like all of them last time I checked 🤷♀️