Question not related to this video. I have seen a video where you say that a man becomes a man when his dad dies. Do you think it could be the same or similar for women? I’ve known of 2 men that when their mom died was when their lives changed.
JP I have few questions and observations. If you want your missionary propaganda to succeed than go on but if you are a real seeker and if you really are not a zombie missionary then do the following: 1. Bring a pro Hindu person to talk about Hindus because you are a declared missionary now. 2. If it's possible come out of your prejudice and hate for a culture which you know through only another zombie missionary. 3. When you discussed Islam you brought a pro Islam person but when you discussed Hinduism you brought a zombie missionary that's sad. 4. JP just be aware that Karma is so real that zombie missionary can't grasp it so talk to some level headed Yogi. 5. Caste system is not the bed rock of India period. 6. If you are a reasonable person as you project bring a Hindu saint to discuss and let me see if you even stand a chance fir missionary propaganda.
@@shravyaamin8346 Because he used some straw man arguments in his talks, which missionaries have used for generations ............ If you want to know what he said wrong about then watch the full series of refutation of this talk In " Sangam Talks " or "Jaipur dialogues" UA-cam channel
@@shravyaamin8346 lol 😂 point is that Mughals only built taj mahal and s.. but never worked for the betterment of public. I.e universities, centre of knowledge,facilities medical . That’s why their name is synonym with ayyashi. Randi and handi is reason for their downfall . Get it?
JP should, for the sake of fairness, invite a learned Hindu scholar/advocate like J Sai Deepak or Sadguru. We have too many people to represent our ancient civilization in a fair manner. I'm sure JP being a respected intellectual will do this.
Def not sadhguru. He gives good advices and can debate well. He doesnt know aything about scriptural knowlesge!!! I have seen him say utter nonsense regarding many tipics, sometimes i wpnder if he is secretly working for the christians
So a 5000+ year old culture and the world's oldest religion and multiple holy scriptures and the time dedicated to understand that is just 2 hours. And people study one book The Bible their whole life and discuss about it everytime they had an opportunity. Talking to better people can spark JP's interest in India and it's culture
Worst take ever. "They only talked about my religion for 2 hours!!??" You do understand that most people have other things to do In a day other than discuss history and philisophy, right?
The more I learn about history from different perspectives, the more I realize how misled my entire generation has been. It's depressing, and we have yet to see the implications of such flawed education across the entirety of the western world.
I wholeheartedly agree!! I strongly resonate with your statement. I also feel the same way about many subjects in education beyond history. One being economics and how the Keynesian school is just assumed to be best. Marxism is discussed but the Chicago and Austrian schools are hardly mentioned if at all. The idea of Archetypes is another one. I was taught that Archetypes are simply a theme people make up and copy off of such as Damsel in Distress. On that level it seems so patriarchal and chauvinistic. But Dr Peterson has shown me the truth. Archetypes are part of our collective subconscious and we are predisposed to understanding them. How intriguing and novel!
The world tries so hard to disparage Christianity, but after listening to this, once again I am reminded that the truth is, the entire civilized world owes it's ideas of equality, tolerance, justice etc..., to Christianity. Progressives hate the church and go out of their way to try and paint the history of the Church as evil, but the truth is, even progressives concepts of evil, of right and wrong, was appropriated from Christianity.
@@matthewsilver5455 I love your point about archetypes being something we are predisposed to understanding. I believe this to be the case. It's so odd, the lay-man, who hasn't read a lot (I include myself in all this), isn't traditionally educated, hasn't been exposed to the well fleshed-out meanings behind archetypes, can still watch a great film or see a great president etc, and feels within them the biological impulse to imitate. Which only raises more questions, because how can mere biology push you to imitate things which are not real, in a sense. These ideas of good and bad that archetypes are, just leaves me wondering, how can cells, brain matter, neurons etc, understand that some things are worth imitating. They are after all, just a collection of chemicals/atoms arranged neatly, according to the atheistic world view. Dr Peterson has been a gateway drug to my own expansion/acceptance of the fact that being so staunchly atheistic as I was before, was an extremely simple minded way of viewing the world.
Dear Jordan, I wanted to say thank you for helping me through the most difficult time of my life. I am Ukrainian and my city Mariupol was destroyed by the Russians. My parents escaped to Romania where my mum passed away just a few hours ago. If this is not a perfect disaster I don’t know what is… But reading and listening to your books and lectures made me more resilient and just a better person. I support my family in this hard time and what could have been a total chaos and catastrophe becomes a loss. Hard but manageable to our family coming together. Thank you 🙏
This conversation was extremely biased. If Jordan Peterson is truly interested in getting a holistic perspective of India and Hinduism, he should talk to Sanjay Dixit (Jaipur Dialogues), J Sai Deepak, Pandit Satish Sharma and Abhijit Chavda.
Mr. J Sai Deepak is way too sharp to play with for Mr. J.P. JSD is a bias killer, remedy and nightmare at the same time for these intellectual turned evangelists.
If Jordan Peterson wants to understand India and the civilisation why he has to go to now a Christian person? Give an opportunity to one who lives here and is practising the tradition here. This is not pursuit of truth, it feels more like hidden Christian propaganda by denigrating the other religion. Sorry the guest is so wrong about things discussed. I protest the wrong things said about the community and our history.
I do not believe Jordan is trying to use Christian propaganda. He titled his video correctly- therefore we knew the premise of the topic and its direction for discussion. Jordan is quite good about allowing representation of other sides, whether or not he agrees or disagrees with the information being spoken on. Check out his video with an Islamic church leader. The video conversation is about the history of Islam and the reasons behind their justifications for the way they rule/follow their religion. Email Jordan and give him the name of a quite brilliant person to represent another side of India's practices opposite of this video. Just make sure the person you recommend is intelligent enough to hold their own in the conversation
@@stormystrikes I very well believe Jordan's skills and intellect. I myself have benefitted from him in my personal growth over the last 4 years. I do not agree him on this video. I feel he hasn't put enough arguments/ questions in against which I usually see him do, so many times. Possible his lack of knowledge on this subject but I don't know and like him I would want a fair dialogue, better than this. Also, thanks for the suggestions I like the idea of emailing some recommended guests. There are plenty of abled 'Indians' with whom Jordan would love to hold ground with. I will definitely send him some suggestions as name of such abled men to talk to on the matter of India, culture, history and related revolutions of all forms and religion. I just really hope he gets across my mail.
@@COINsimp2024 Measurements of faring should also include external factors in case of low faring nations. Geopolitics have a say in this and not the Christianity.
@@COINsimp2024 ha ha. Take go take a history course my friend. Bible is nt world history. Other parts of the world were doing quite well even before the arrival of Jesus.
The entire conversation is about how the west civilized us Indian Hindu savages or rather the pagans. We pagans used to only wage war against each other with no sense of science, knowledge or even literacy at all. Had I not read Author J Sai Deepak's bestseller book "India that is Bharat", I'd have believed this entire conversation including the "holier than thou" evangelical practices of the Brits. Nice to see Indians in the comment section standup for our Indic values of our civilization. Hence pointing out some utterly problematic sections of this Interview - 1. "The role Bible played in shaping it as a country" / Bible played no role in shaping India, yes Christians opened schools in India but many of them used to convert the students covertly/overtly, just like they have done in Canada. and Common!! our Lord Krishna in Geeta said i m from whom this universe emerged and into which it will go. You seriously think we need a book and a messenger/son of God to look upto. 2. "Allahabad was Muslim city & it's name got changed to a Hindu one 2 years ago" / False statement - Allahabad name was given to ancient Hindu city Prayag by Muslim ruler Akbar around 1580 AD. Prayag finds its mention even in Vedas. 3. "India's national language is Hindi" / Westerners cant wrap their mind around the fact that a nation could have 19500 spoken languages ( yes 19500 !! ) , out of which 22 are listed in Indian constitution. Again a falsehood on guest's side. 4. Vishal's understanding of the Vedas ( the most ancient religious text of humankind) is superficial, almost like a fifth grader. 5. Vedas says "it's the absolute truth" or "to gain power", again a false statement on Vishal's side. Let me just quite from Rigveda (oldest of four Vedas) it goes "Ekam Sat Viprah Bahudhah Vadanti" literally means Truth is one but learned ones call it by many names. It is not a Hindu truth its a cosmic/Universal truth and one can reach it by different paths. 6. "Vedas are magical words." / again a false statement. They are ancient texts so naturally Hindus and many foreigners have a reverence to it but calling it magical is a great misunderstanding. 7. "Sanskrit language doesn't have script." / It has many scripts historically, latest being Devanagari. 8. "Karma justifies suffering & the caste system" / any common man in streets in India will laugh on this. trust me. 10. "You cant teach science or business laws to a stone age tribe as their dialect doesn't have the vocabulary/grammar." / Really ??? Ok.. Yes.. Yes.. got it pagans are savages and all. FYI these same Hindus have created most ancient knowledge systems and philosophy. A complex philosophical/psychological system with 6 different subsystems in it. HH Dalai Lama said once "Western psychology is a kindergarten stuff in front of Indian psychology". Not my words. Search google. 11. Also, the same old Charles Grant & William Wilberforce narrative. I came across those dangerous propaganda via "India that is Bharat" book. 12. JP & Vishal basically saying that we Hindu pagans should've gone extinct because we had savagery practices :) just like the other ancient civilizations of Maya or Egypt etc. But then the Bible stepped in and saved us Indians. What a joke! Thankyou JP for making mockery of a 5000+ year old continuous civilization by inviting Christian converts like Vishal to represent India on your platform. Disappointed!!
Very correct analysis Below is the extract from Dr Meenakshi jain's book "Sati" "Thus we trust, it has been envinced.... The moral character and condition of the natives is extremely depraved and the state of society is wretched. The evils have been shewn to lie beyond... however good they (hindoos) have been traced to their civil and religious institutions, they(hindoos) have been proved to inhere in general spirit and many positive enactments of law and more powerfully still in the false corrupt impure extravagant and ridiculous principles of their religious...a remedy has been proposed for these evils, the introduction of our light...".(Grant 1832: 120) Charles Grant could not help but appreciate the way of life of Hindus, but his overwhelming hatred for the heathens and desire for colonial power made him say the opposite.
Dr. Jordan, I love and respect you a lot but it's very sad to see you going this route. The ancient Hindu dharma is what that has shaped India not British Imperialism. In fact, it is the British colonialism and its Divide and Rule policies that broke India and caused unspeakable atrocities against Indians. Dr. Jordan, you have a lot to learn about India and its true history. Please do it and that knowledge you gain will help you in shaping humanity for better.
The British is who literally brought democracy to India lol. Before that, there were only empires. Railways, Airports, Courts, Ships and plethora of other developments are still owed to the British. Btw, I'm not ignoring the fact that the British plundered India.
He is, in many ways than not, a Eurocentrist after all, in their view, like the British, think that the “dawn of mankind” happened because of western civilisation.
Bring islamic scholars to talk about Islam it's civilization , bring christain preachers to talk about christanity ,Bible its history . And bring just random anyone to talk about India , it's civilization , hinduism and its history. This whole podcast felt like the unfinished business of the European colonizer 😝 and the last chance to civilize the uncivilised pagans 😂😂 !
@@Noname-oq9mk JBP is ignorant on the indic issues, definitely without any malicious intentions. But he is definitely incorrect in bringing a missionary to understand indic faith. I mean, it doesn't make sense. If someone wants to explore the history and dharma of a land, they should bring their expert at least.
I have never heard this vile version of Hindu history.... I request Jordon Peterson to call credible indic scholars like Sanjay Dixit, J Sai Deepak or Swami Savrvapriyananda..
Peterson doesn't care about India. He cares about justifying the genocide across the worlds by white people, and he cares about spreading the cancer of Christianity.
As an Indian fan of Dr. Peterson, I'm extremely disappointed seeing this. Christianity has had an insignificant impact on India. Even today, Christians constitute less than 2% of the population. There is no need to understand a civilization that predates Christ by millennia through the lens of Christianity which was introduced to India by colonizers a few centuries ago. The guest is a convert who seems to think that the pagan Indian needed civilizing, a trope used by British Imperialists and their symapthizers such as Kipling to justify the most heinous crimes committed by the British Empire. If Dr. Peterson is really serious about exploring themes of Indian Civilization, he should invite scholars and academics of Indian history and Hindu culture on his channel. Edit : In response to replies on this thread - Yes, I know Christianity came to India as early as the first century AD, but it was not a feature of mainstream Indian Intellectual life. Much of what has shaped Indian civilization for millennia are intellectual, cultural and religious ideas derived from the Vedic religions (ie., what is today called Hinduism) and Nastik religions (ie., Buddhism, Jainism etc.) and later Islam after the islamic invasions. This is simply a historical fact that needs to be acknowledged.
It's not the colonizers who brought Christianity to India..there was christians even before that.infact,the colonizers forcefully made the existing Christians join their sect...you can look up the Coonan Cross Oath.
@chandruae “Christianity has had an insignificant impact on India”. You really do need an education now, don’t you? Your benighted ilk have nothing better to do than grasp at straws … or hijabs. Or loudspeakers. Or mosques. Or Christian congregations. Why, pray, are the 85% so terrified of the 3%?
Just one correction Hindi is not the national language of India, it's just the most popular and widespread language among 22 official languages written down in the Constitution.
@@goodfty too many right... An average indian kid is atleast bilingual... I myself am trilingual... I can speak and write in 3 languages and can compose decent poetry in two... People learn 3 languages till 8th grade in the southern states
The ancient India and that means the overall structure of way of life if studied in reference to the stories, script, information available then it is simply - those old people believed that the life is a journey, while an individual's soul is a driver and the body/character named in the current life is a vehicle in this journey. Vedas were mechanism that they believed can charge the vehicle so that the journey can be completed in most efficient way of life. Vedas if you focus on the part of karmakanda (ceremonial practice) then it will sound as if they are here to deliver magic but if you refer them from philosophical base they have you will understand it is a practice that they want to demonstrate for the journey of life. How to live on this earth alongside all the natural resources may it be sun, moon, trees, animals. Later people made Shrutis and Upanishads to reflect those philosophical content in Veda in form of short stories so that people can easily understand instead of expecting magics. Hinduism is in current period is referred as religion but if you look at old practices it doesn't seem to be religion. Dharma as they referred was not focused on "God" it was focused on an individual's duties towards its family, community etc. Varna system was to organise the large group of people based on their skills and assign them duties. Unfortunately as people gained undestanding how they can use their skills to gain power and control the entire group they turned the same system in a negative form of discrimination which we lived since last century.
@@ankiiths3274 But, not God in the typical sense. The system in its entirety is God. Whether such intervention to start is divine is what leads to different schools of thought.
This Guy is like a missionary on job the whole video have much less to do with indian history and he did not know Sanskrit either. JP should not give a misleading title to the video people are going to find it out.👎
Hmmm... This whole interview reeks of confirmation bias. And he seems to have read his history from Romila Thappar. A known Marxist historian who has warped Indian history. Just his mentioning of the Ashwamedha as the reason for India's weakness is ridiculous. Where the English performing Ashwamedha when the Vikings invaded? No! Sometimes geopolitics is just such that you are weakened due to infighting and can't stand up to a foreign enemy. Then the part about the bare breasted women of Travancore. That is a highly disputed story. Women being bare breast was not a taboo until Victorian morality rolled up in India. And given the tropical climate of Travancore it makes sense. There are many paintings and sculptures of Godesses as being bare breast. At one point he says that there were no written scripts before the bible? Tamil and Sanskrit have scripts going back millennia. The Rig Vedas were written down in 1000 years before Christ, so not sure how he could not find a written copy in 1960.
This conversation is similar to what happened with excess covid death reporting. Western media in 2021 had projected the deaths due to covid in India as 4.3 million. Then in 2022 the WHO repeats this propoganda and says the deaths 4.7 million. In a nutshell what the west is saying is whatever the Hindus say, of something about hinduism is good, then the only 1/10 th is good. If something bad has happened in India, then multiply it with a factor of 10
What impact did the Moghuls have on India. Let's hear what American historian Will Durant has to say: The Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history ,it is a discouraging tale for it's evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex of order and freedom ,culture and peace can at any moment be overthrown by Barbarians invading from without and multiplying from within.......Will Durant ,American Historian
Ah, Will Durant said it so aptly 'Barbarians invading from without and multiplying from within' - sadly, they continue to multiply from within and without as well :(
the moghuls were an evil empire though, it killed many Eastern Europeans and middle eastern. Why do you thing the middle eastern decided to take it down.
Please do some research before commenting. The Mughals brought a remarkable mainly inclusive educated culture to India. Hindus were included in high government positions. Yes, there was bloody violence; much of it among different Islamic factions. The East India Company and later the British Government were far more violent and repressive.
I am convinced that everything has come down to us from the banks of the Ganges, - astronomy, astrology, metempsychosis, etc... It is very important to note that some 2,500 years ago at the least Pythagoras went from Samos to the Ganges to learn geometry...But he would certainly not have undertaken such a strange journey had the reputation of the Brahmins' science not been long established in Europe........Francois M Voltaire, French Philosopher
Jordan I would suggest you to have Mr. J Sai Deepak on your podcast. His depth of knowledge about India and the influence of Christianity and Coloniality on India is profound. Of course there will be difference of opinions but it would be a great conversation to say the least.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 JSD's an idiot who belives collective rights should trump individual rights and also belives in moral subjectivism He won't have the guts to speak in front of dr Peterson who'll destroy his BS within seconds.
I don't agree with the indian missionary's characterisation of hindu dharma. It only reinforces the idea that the pagan religions such as hinduism are primitive in nature and need the save and grace of an abrahmic religion, A very Eurocentric idea which tries to be a universal truth. Sure the hindu dharama had it's issues but to understand this complex pagan religion with an European abrahmic lense would be wrong. This is what the mughals and english did. Max muller initially hated this pagan religion but after studying it in depth declared indian philosophy and Hinduism to be one of the most sophisticated religions and one of the most developed philosophies, even greater than plato Or Aristotle. PS: dr. Peterson as you Invite ben Shapiro to discuss on Judaism, mohd. Hijab on Islam I would request you to invite a hindu ( sanatan dharama) scholar to discuss hinduism.
@@Lucas_Jeffrey i can suggest to you some scholars which might help you understand Hinduism 1. Swami Vivekananda - there's an 8 volume collection comprising of his speeches , essays and letters 2. Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan - he taught Eastern Religion at Oxford before being the President of India and writing writing dozens of books on history of Indian Philosophy and Religion 3. Sri Aurobindo - he was a philosopher and a poet who wrote many books and translated many Sanskrit scriptures in english . 4. Rabindranath Tagore - although not strictly a religious scholar but he delved into religion along with writing poetry , novels , was a painter , well versed in classical music and dance
Dear Dr Peterson, like most of people who follow you, your discussions bring me a sense of understanding of many things political or religious and or just pIain truth. But when you start this video's Tag with the word 'INDIA' while the content may mean many things, but you probably can't expect people in India to solely ignore the core religion which gave India (Hindustan/ Bharat) it's identity long before bilbe/ quran were introduced to the land. And the discussion in this video is great in many ways with regards the guests work for the poor, and impact of bile on the land, but as I've stated, you can't alinate the core religious foundation of India by not having discussion(s) with the people who have an large understanding of Hinduism. Your teachings make me not to judge your intentions/ motivations for this discussion, purely on one video regarding just India and Bile although your religious exploration could have started with pure discussion on India and Hinduism, and you could have carried it to later parts of the history. If you plan to understand Hinduism and India in it's complete essence, I am sure you clearly know, a discussion with people with vast knowledge of the same is warranted. I assume you have those along your podcast pipeline. However, if your videos related to India would be just limited to Bible/ Christianity impact on the country, this is a great video, but please consider giving a disclaimer in either video title or in the introduction, so people know what exactly to expect. Thank you so very much!! Best wishes for your upcoming discussions!
India was the motherland of our race and Sanskrit the mother of Europe's languages. India was the mother of our philosophy, of much of our mathematics, of the ideals embodied in Christianity... of self-government and democracy. In many ways, Mother India is the mother of us all. Will Durant
The brits fought with the Marathas in the 2 Anglo maratha wars Which was a hindu dynasty expanding over most of India almost to Afghanistan The Mughal empire was over by the better part of the late 18th century!
@Navneet Gupta Dear Nanveet, the Mughal Empire was mostly over by the BEGINNING of the 18th century. Aurangzeb dies in 1705 or something. This is the definite end of an era. After that, whichever Mughal rule was left was toothless.
I am an Indian born Christian and although this man has many interesting points, he has failed to deliver a balanced view point when it comes to Hindu and Bhuddist philosophy. Abrahamic religions have indeed shaped many aspects of modern Indian society but mostly with the help of violence, rape and destruction. Please bring a Hindu or Bhuddist Philosopher next if you want to understand the real complexities of one of the worlds oldest cultural phenomenons. Pushing this narrative that Hinduism is some childish and exploitive religion to the western world is only spreading the notion that the west has some moral superiority over the east.
A detailed book "How The Bible Created Modern India" is coming soon on 15 August 2022. Btw Vishal's views on Hinduism can be read in his book "The World of Gurus".
I wonder what your intentions are, when you bring in a person from christian missionary to talk about india and it's history. Would you bring in a nazi to talk about jewish history? This doesn't behoove you, Jordan.
False equivalence. I'm a Keralite and what he says about Kerala and erstwhile Travancore kingdom is absolutely correct. We Indians should be willing to be self critical
I recommend you read "The India That is Bharat: Coloniality, Civilisation, Constitution" by J Sai Deepak. A very comprehensive read that goes through the civilisational history of India and the effects of coloniality that yet lingers.
@@kranthiraj667 you're a shameless person. Stop trying to manipulate people into your anti-Hindu agenda. I didn't even have to look for one minute to find you trying to defame Hinduism in another of your comments. You shameless missionaries and Hinduphobes need to get a life and stop harassing Hindus. I don't know if you're a sub erted demoralized self hating Hindu, or some Christian missionary it doesn't really matter... I see your obviously anti-Hindu agenda. Stop spreading lies.
India is the only culture to resist the forced conversions to Abrahmic faiths and still succeed. If Jordan is willing to look at both sides, if he shows the negative influences from Bible, he'll lose most of his fanbase. I've spoken with enough westerners regarding this. With white people, the leftists will look at you like a subhuman who deserves to be saved, a Right winger looks at you like a subhuman who deserves to be exploited. That's why at the end of the day, both political sides of the Western society gets very uncomfortable with India's progress. Their leftists like Indians but not Hindus, their RW doesn't like Hindus or Indians.
@@swaythegod5812 and how much were those institutions influenced by india? I mean jpb does yoga Also Carl yung who's greatly influences jpb is greatly influenced by Vedas and sanatan dharma So where does that discussion go?
I really love Jordan's lecture on Bible and other psychology lectures , but living in india I couldn't resonate with a single minute of this video It's just pure western ignorance and moral superiority There is a total absence of nuances and complexities of indian culture and ethos I really love the maps of meaning lectures and genesis lectures But at this point Jordan should maintain his audience base as wide as possible and shouldn't just focus on conservative north American politics Also hindi is not a national language of india that statement is antithesis to cultural erhos of india , it is a very diverse country with a tradition of finding truth by one ownself
India is much much divers and beyond limitation of understanding by Jordan and Mr vishal. One really has to be living in forever in india. If one is sinner by birth ,he has to leave sanatan tradition.
I mean he just thinks that western civilization is superior, which is not true today’s west is built by colonising and killing of millions of Indians and Africans. Chirstianty dosent suit for country like India. India will become powerful and rise once again by Dharmic values.
pretty surprised by how less Jordan actually knows about India. I wish he would have chosen someone better for his intro to its history and complexity. sigh sigh. I would love to talk jordan, please contact me
To all the Hindus and Indians who have commented here. I deeply and truly say to you Aap Sabko Koti Koti Pranam. Dhanyawad. Bhaiya main akele chilate chilate thak gaya inke channel par. Ye kabhi islam ko peaceful batate hain Kabho christanoty ko. Ye sabko mis- inform kar rahein hai bahut pehle se. Jab se last baar bimaar hokar aaye hain tab se ye agenda driven ho gaye hain. AAj main bahut prasann hun. Dhanyawad Bhaiya aur didi aap sabka.
@@himanshurai2854 kya right winger bhaiya. Koi bhi baat main agar hindu apni baat rakhe to wo bhakt hai ya right winger hai. Ye log nahin bulate paisa nahin milega na.
Is video dekhne ke baad mujhe kuch questions hain. Yeh sach hai ki aap log (Hindus) widows ko zinda jalate hain? Ya yeh sach hai ki aap ke vichar se log vidhvaon ko zinda jalana accha hai? Aur choti-choti larkiyon ko marne ke bare main aap log aisa sochte hain ki yeh bhi normal hai? Kyonki main Europe se huun aur is video se main yeh ideas prapt ki...
@@liatresanos3769 it used to be an ancient practice which came into the society with the advent of the islamic invasion of India. However In the 19 century , with the collective efforts of Hindu social reformers and the Brits it was rightly abolished and has since never been practiced anywhere in India. Mind you, even at its peak it was not a Pan India phenomenon rather limited to reigons of islamic invasion.
@@hindeshrai8787 aha, so mentioning the burning of the wives in this context would be similar to pulling out the mediaeval burnings in Europe and concluding that "a true God would never want such things to happen". What about the starving little girl? Here I am more sceptical because I know there are cruel people who treat others like animals all around the world and I suppose extreme poverty and lack of education in rural areas only exacerbates that. I can understand the deep psychological impact of seeing such lack of morality because I have seen many amoral acts also and to witness crap like that leaves the person extremely disgusted with anything that is related to the perpetrators. However, to my knowledge, there is no such thing in Hindu religious teachings as women being less than men per se. I hope I am not wrong at this point. Correct me if you could show me a passage somewhere in your scriptures where it says specifically that a woman has no soul and thus can be dismissed I would appreciate.
I like JP interviews, but this conversation was a disappointment. The arguments were lacking nuance as they seemed to deliberately lack historical context. A lot of mental gymnastics and huge gaping blind spots were required to come to some of these conclusions and justifications. Bring Hindu scholars to discuss the Vedas and caste system, bring Islamic and Mughal Era historians to understand the impact of that empire and Muslims on the subcontinent aside from “ they built the Taj Mahal but didn’t build wheel barrels” and other catchy one-liners. This conversation put a brand of recently imported ‘civilizing’ European Christianity on one side and lumped literally everyone else and every other belief together in barbaric opposition to it. As if Christendom just prior to that era wasn’t completely fragmented, perpetually at war and cruel to its proletariat, religious minorities, women and poor. As if the same Bible’s adherents haven’t shed more blood recently and historically than every other religious group in India combined. Let’s put all that aside, eh? This was definitely NOT JPs best effort at bridge building.
That’s cause you don’t read the Whole context of the Bible….when you do you’ll understand this two gentlemen dialogue. Research for yourself and read the Bible from beginning to end….only then you’ll have knowledge…❤️😇
@@nl9490 that’s just not true is it. You can reframe context all you want - but the Bible stops short of what Sanatan Dharma takes forward. You see Christ in many temples, but not the other way around - why? Because Christianity cannot afford to let go of it’s foundational axioms such as being history centric and requiring the virgin birth and resurrection of Christ, and salvation through Him. Hindus are accepting of Christ, and more. But I tell you this; Both approaches can lead to a very happy life for whomever feels a resonance with it. Why do I say this? Because it’s fundamentally the approach of Sanatan Dharma (Hinduism)
Did this guy skip over Vedas and Upanishads just like that! Man, I wish Jordan himself reads Bhagwad Gita, the Essence of Vedas, and see the deepest truths himself.
he won't be able to see i'm afraid because his conditions doesn't seem right. he has a lot of mental turmoil on the back of his mind. and he has already spent half his life studying and understanding and explaining the Bible which has taken deep roots in his mind. which is good but that acts as an restraint because when you are too much attached or filled with something it becomes difficult for you to get roots in new things and learn them the way you did first time. It would be really great if he could though.
@@Zeus-uq3wh nature and is sick sense of humour! hahaha. the truth is never staying at the same place, if bhagwad gita is expressing itself like you are then id rather read about the teletubbies. what i like about peterson is that he has an opposing view and you got something to learn there. you speak like you already know it, maybe you should do like peterson and learn while you talk also. even people who are christians does not understand the bible. do you even know what the bible really means by virgin? do you even know what the bible means by bread and so on. i think 99% of the people gets the virgin thing part wrong xD
The Vedas',...what a waste of time. Buddhism was born out of the inability of Hinduism, Advaita, etc., to understand reality. Siddhartha exhausted everything that Hinduism, Advaita offered and did not find the threshold of Bodhicitta. To help communicate a way out of Samsara to Reality, it is said that Sakyamuni Buddha designed the first 'Wheel of Life' for the simple-minded people of that era. The Buddhist Wheel or Loop of Cyclic illusory Existence is said to have Six Realms,...the Highest Level of which is the Brahman/God Realm.
What deepest truth? That everybody is assigned a caste at birth and that Arjuna should murder his possible unarmed cousins in the war because it was his caste duty? Reincarnation trivializes both life and death and karma trivializes suffering. This worldview has brought untold oppression and suffering to millions of people in the Indian subcontinent for a millenia.
@@NameforYouT yes you can apply that to every system we have today. its strange we cant accept that we are not equals and embrace being different also, not in a oppressed way. it depends on who defines equal, its like why dont like that people are not the same as you, then you can truly learn something new.
I would highly recommend Swami Sarvapriyananda on your show. He is well versed in Indian philosophies, especially advaita vedanta (non duality) and some of the western philosophies too🙏
His last words "Thank you for what you're doing." sums it up. JP thank you for this enlightening seminar. My father, who is a white American man in his 90's had me late in life. he turned his back on the Jesus he was introduced to as a child and found inner peace in the Upanishads (sp?) and Ramakrishna, Vidantism and I grew up going to the Vidanta temple in NYC ..me-a red headed, blue eyed, white little girl. As I grew I tried to understand 1) what Vidantism was and 2) why my father revered it so much. But in the end I couldn't find my answers. It seemed to negate the feminine, which fit well with what I knew about my father. He hated his mother, no one in the family knows why. Something terrible must have happened but he will take it to the grave with him I suppose. When I found Jesus all the questions about life were answered in an instant; and it was then that I felt sick that my father (and my brother as an extension) will never find the peace of Christ. I've heard my whole life that the goal is to reach nirvana, and to do so you must empty your mind. ????Your guest validated my feelings about this practice....it doesn't give Truth to the human conscience who is searching for it. Lack of Truth is at the heart of our societal problems at the moment. I liked what you said about how all the cultures of the Enlightenment were not atheists until the French Enlightenment which brought us through erudite education this current Reign of Terror called Postmodernism that we are all suffering through. I so so so enjoyed this guest and your conversation with him. I think I can safely say my experience as a Caucasian red haired, blue-eyed girl being raised in a Ramakrishna Temple is a unique niche from which to speak, and one that make this conversation possibly more personal for me than many others. Thanks again!
"It seemed to negate the feminine," this absurd coming from a believer in an Abrahamic religion, which are extremely patriarchal totalitarian "1 True God" (who's always male btw) cults that believe the world is only thousands of years old (unlike Sanatana Dharma/"Hinduism" which asserts correctly that the world is BILLIONS of years old, as corroborated by Modern Western Science. You do realize that unlike the Bible & Quran, the Vedas were written by WOMEN along with men. Everything this self-hating Indian human scapegoat sacrifice believer said about India & Dharma is a lie or at best a gross misconception.
@Morgan, you must be mistaken, Hinduism never disregards the feminine, but accepts it in all its glory along with the masculine, which together form the fabric of life. You have all the right to form your own conclusions and tread your spiritual path to harmony, to not follow dogmatic beliefs. This is advocated many times in Hinduism.
@Darren It is only when we empty the mind can we experience the world as it is, only this way can you shift the seat of consciousness from the ego, devoid of judgements and unfounded beliefs. when the ego disappears, you see that you are one with all around you, i.e. you experience the cosmic consciousness or God called "Brahmam" in hinduism. And the kundalini is a form of energy that is described as rising through the spine activating the seven chakras which can be seen as points where the organ function is vital to a fully balanced, healthy and peaceful mind. The spine path vaguely represents a serpent, hence the misnomer. Please don't associate it with an expernal serpent spirit. It is something that is already within you. You just work on activating it to become a healthier person.
I am an Indian who just started following Dr Peterson and I find his lectures very enlightening, but this one was a huge disappointment. It would better for Dr Peterson to get Indian intellectuals like Rajiv Malhotra or Abhijit Iyer Mitra or J Sai Deepak or Aabhas Mahaldiyar to speak about India and Indian philosophy and spiritualism. Bible has NOT shaped our country like the way he says, it is our Sanatana Philosophies (like the Gita, Upanishads, Purana, Veda, Mahabharata, Ramayana, Jainism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Charvaka, Vivekananda,etc) that has shaped our country. Peterson also really needs to know the dark side of missionaries in India. Indian philosophy is the most ancient and one of the most revered philosophies across the world. India is the longest standing classical civilization which has not crumbled due to invasions and colonialism. Majority of the ordinary Indians will not accept what his guest said because we know the basis of our civilization. Christianity came to India only around 500 years ago, and while it has been here it has focused more on degrading hindu practices as pagan and proselytisation through rice bag conversion. They have also played an effective role in mistranslating and misinterpreting our philosophies, as they knew that Santana Dharma could posses to be a huge threat to Christianity. This has affected the ability of many ordinary Indians to truly understand our shastras till date which has produced half informed people like Mr Vishal Mangalwadi.He also needs to understand the difference between Jaati and Varna, how they are not the same and what truly led to such discriminatory practices in India and the factors that influenced it. Vishal Mangalwadi does not seem well versed with Hindu philosophy and seems to be driven by missionary ideology. So a humble request to Dr Peterson to get such intellectuals as mentioned above to his podcast. It would be better if he himself read the Bhagavad Gita and understood how Varna and Karma and thinking of Lord Krishna worked. I would love to hear him talk about the psychological and philosophical aspects of the Gita, Mahabharata, Mimansa and the Ramayana in his upcoming podcasts. Peace ☮️🙏🇮🇳🌸
So you speak for the majority of India? Ok got it. And this topic was about the Christian influence in India, that's the topic. Are you claiming Christianity had no influence there? Nobody said all of India has been shaped completely by Jesus and nobody else. That is your broken telephone interpretation.
@@roberjohnsmith Christianity does have influence on India, but not like the way he is saying. We had a highly developed and revered gurukula system of education that focussed on the all round development of a child, the Brits came and replaced it with their missionary system which was meant to churn out clerks. This put our education system behind by 200 years and we are still struggling to make our way through it. Brits had some positive influences like giving us the Westminster system of governance or Railways, but I don't think you need Christianity for that. I encourage you to read about Indian colonial history and see for yourself. Christianity did not spread so massively because of the love of Jesus and the Gospels , it was mainly due to the power of the sword. Even Buddhism and Jainism were religions based on peace and love, why didn't they spread like Christianity or Islam ? Even Indian Christians will agree that Christian influence has mostly been negative, they too recognise it's problems as they were all Hindus before converting. It has not done anything to reform the caste system, it has only made it worst. The Brits could have made laws to reduce the tensions between Brahmins and Shudras, but what they did was escalate the tensions. Infact, hindu rulers like Wodeyars were more effectively able to control caste discrimination and discrimination against women in their kingdom of Mysore. How was that possible ? Read about the Church's history and colonial rule in India, you will only find out whether the influence news positive or negative.
Bible didn't play any role in shaping my country. Maybe our Vedas and mysticism played a role in shaping western religions. Yes we had caste systems but it was not how it all started. The society got messed up with Islamic and European invasions.
Christian missionaries tried to convert poor sections of Indian society by using fault lines since 1500s, but they never got much success other than Malabar region and North East India. The most ironic part about all of this is that : Christian missionaries claim to free them from "evil caste" chains but even after 10 generations of conversation, they never stopped using caste identity. Dalits Christian is still a thing.
@@davidcole1475 India will be fully converted only and only when it's Kaliyuga, the age of darkness, when we will stop living in Truth entirely. The sad thing is, we're indeed in this dark age currently, albeit just in the golden years of it where not all Truth is lost yet! If this were a golden age then the doctrine of Dharma would've prevailed.
@@davidcole1475 But which heaven exactly? There are seven heavens in total. Which one are you talking about exactly when you say heaven? Do you mean the highest one, where the God himself dwells? Then you're talking about Brahmaloka where the creator of this world, Brahma, dwells. But we don't worship that god here. Ask us why.
@@davidcole1475 lmao. I'm literally stating what is truth. Unlike you, I've not based my whole worldview on just one single book but rather studied each and every religion after I realised that what we call today as Christianity is based upon lies and manipulation. I was a Christian, dude! A devote, god fearing Christian. After my awakening I realised that Christianity is not actually based upon Truth. This realisation also made me look into gnosticism and all the dots started to connect, it all started to make sense. You'll be awakened too, IF you're meant to and search for the Truth hard enough.
@@davidcole1475 That's exactly what I'm talking about. I've read what he preached and how he lived, that's where my views are coming from! Don't read the Indian scriptures if you think that's satanic, fine? But atleast read the gnostic scriptures. Just go beyond your modern Bible is all I'm saying. Explore more.
While it is true that the west had many positive influences on shaping Indian society, something lost in the very one dimensional anti-colonial perspective that pervades modern culture, I don’t feel this guest provided exactly the most fair, balanced and nuanced perspective of Hindu ideas and Indian history in general. When he reduced the vedas to essentially being a Harry Potter spell book that became apparent to me. It’s of course difficult to discuss Hinduism because it’s not a centralized religion stemming from one single authority, so traditions vary tremendously, place to place, but reducing it to just a collection of some of the worst practices in certain places would be like reducing Christianity down to sex abuse of minors because of the Catholic Church. If Hindu culture simply promoted nothing but tyrannical rule of the upper castes with no care for the poor or suffering, as he essentially claims, there’s no way in which ancient Indian kingdoms could have ever grown or prospered, since by logic that JBP rightfully states when challenging the ideas of postmodern types, tyrannical systems are often overthrown and collapse from the growing rage of the out group. It’s worth noting that the first of India’s golden ages, where many advancements to science, math and medicine occurred, happened prior to the introduction of any Abrahamic religion into the subcontinent, something that challenges the unidimensional idea of Hinduism and pre Christian India the guest presents. I would personally be excited to see JBP bring on a guest speaking from a Hindu perspective, whether scholarly or religious to provide another view, in much the same way he has been exploring and building bridges with the Islamic world. Considering Hinduism is the largest non Abraham tradition that roughly 1/7 of the world practices at the 3rd most populous religion, it would be worthwhile to understand this tradition, the only polytheistic one of scale that has survived, and for around 5000 years at that. Just as the west has influenced India and the east in general, so has the east influenced the west and I think there is much to be gained from a more holistic dialogue. Thanks for the content Mr Peterson.
@@benjaminlquinlan8702 Its a greek derivative of the river Indus, as in " those guys who live over past the Indus river" ( greek words like 'h'onour and 'h'our kept their silent H, but Persian utility of the term put a hard H on hindu )... on par with grouping Jews, Muslims and Christians as "Jordanists"
@@benjaminlquinlan8702 you are correct. When the British were conducting a census of India under the category of religion. Muslim people would say Islam, Christians would write Christians, but the "Hindus" would write whatever their caste was. So the frustrated British clubbed all those into one religion they called Hinduism
Both JBP and this fellow has also made the fundamental mistake of conflating the influences of west and western ideas as influences of Christianity specially of Christian missionary
@@benjaminlquinlan8702 It is true. Hinduism is just a conglomerate of thousands of different practices of millions of people from hundreds of different places in India. Hindu is only a term of convenience.
I enjoy his talks but when it comes to India and its culture, JP is a big disappointment. Intellectual like him, when discuss things without knowledge/research is like someone is talking about life on Pluto without seeing it or knowing it. To understand religion and culture of India, he has to get out of Abrahmic tradition of following one book, a monotheistic tradition and stop mapping India with the same template. Knowing the Vedas, some popular terms like caste system, meditation and yoga doesn't mean knowing India or its culture. (Unless it is a paid propaganda just like million others are).
do you think the same people who lived there 1000 or 2000 years ago and all the way back to the bronze age is the same people who live there today. dont you think they would be a very small minority by now? its very sad to see such a beautiful place on earth destroyed by money, greed and so on wich has nothing to do with culture at all. do we know that the caste system isnt some perversion of the real deal ? from what i see, is that the people in power only cares about everything else than the culture of their land. they take that away from people so they can take that to their own benefit and make $$$
I saw a video made by JP about how one should try to find out about one's natural tendency to decide on career. Varna system was the tool in ancient times to identify this tendency very early. It is not easy to understand Hinduism from a narrow perspective. Thoroughly disappointed with JP's understanding of Hinduism. Expected better. Look into Vic Dicara's videos to understand what Hinduism is all about
@@mahalakshmir2404 There you go again. Telling me stuff as if you KNOW they are true when you have NO WAY of knowing if they are true. Like i said..pompous, arrogant culture
@@MusicMan-em4fn ironic that you are calling Hindus arrogant and pompous for knowing the truth while the speaker here says that he didn't read Hindu scriptures because they couldn't give him truth and the Bible is the only truth.
@@_liebevoll_4322 Hindu scriptures didn't give him the truth cuz he read and did not find it there. Logic 😄 Also.. YOU have not read those scriptures either. 🤣 Like a typical Hindu.
The man took up the lowest common denominator of a culture and normalised it as if the only reality. This is as if picking up medival ills of christianity, and normalising it as the only essence of christianity. You both made out a strawman out of hinduism. The host(whom I do admire) didn't even know about muslim empires in India. A bit of genuine home work and honesty might help for a better discussion, with regards to India, rather than preconcieved notion and anti pagan bias.
Medieval Christianity was held in high esteem as a time of great virtue by Renaissance great thinker Erasmus, a leading Humanist. “I saw monarchy without tyranny, aristocracy without factions, democracy without tumult, wealth without luxury,” Erasmus later wrote, idealizing the past. “Would that it had been your lot, divine Plato, to come upon such a republic.” Perhaps most important, medieval man believed that he knew his place in the Economy of Grace, in God’s universe.
@@johnofroncesvalles4255 you forgot mentioning Catholic Church sexual abuses, witch-burning, treatment of homosexuals, inquisition, torture and persecution of Jews and pagans etc. etc.
I don't agree. You have reduced a 1:45 hour interview, where he did not just glorify the Bible's contribution but also spoke about colonialism's ills at length, clearly pointing out that it was not one culture that was better than another, rather it was a meeting of two very worldviews, into some soundbites. One would think that one worldview having a definite advantage of supposedly having power on it's side, the reality is more nuanced, early missionaries were considered troublemakers and kept out by the British, simply because they called a spade a spade, with regards to the east india company's early corruption as well as the ills present in Indian society then(the company had no interest in its early days in good governance or reform, India was a means to make money). India is very much living with a Hindu worldview at present. So the colonial project was definitely a failure, from that perspective. But there were some positives to the whole exercise and the speakers point was to shed a light on those positives. In today's shrill chest thumping narrative of Indian preeminence, a bit of humility is what he is calling for. I don't sense any triumphalism in it. Your review needs to be more even-handed.
@@AD-gu6sr 1.I am a Hindu, and I think there is nothing inherently wrong with having a Hindu worldview, as there isn't anything wrong with a christian worldview. 2.Good that you are taking about even handedness. I would expect the same, since you painted a very rosy picture of early missionaries. About the early missionaries, their entry was facilitated thorough law(Read Charter Act of 1813) and yes early missionaries were trouble makers, but, for the Indian society. Most tribal revolts has one common cause i.e proselytizing activities by missionaries.Of course they did a few good things as well, but mostly their benovelence was transactional. It was at the cost of dignity of indigenous faiths. 3. The speaker isn't asking for any kind of humility. Infact his disscussion on hinduism has been consciously ignorant( E.g the doctrinne of karma) . The bottomline of his message was to project hinduism as a primitive religion that requires gracious saving by christianity.
The people here should know one more thing that when Jesus was being crucified, it is a common belief that Jesus dies on cross but it's a wrong, rather he came to India in Srinagar, state of Jammu and kashmir and some says till the age of 125 or more than 50 years. His shrine is there, numerous indian author has written on him and about his grave in India, that's why westerners didn't find his grave because they were digging in wrong place. No body speak Hebrew in India, but words are written in Hebrew on his grave. 🙏🙏🙏
You should've invited a Hindu to this discussion. This guy is a Christian with an anti hindu bias, obviously he would have a western bias. Kinda disappointed.
This is absurd. I respect you, but I will tell you this discussion was biased and filled with many misleading points. Mr Peterson, if you had to discus matters related to India or Hinduism and not just Bible, then you should have invited someone with that knowledge - not a Christian philosopher - or you could have also invited both, a Hindu philosopher and a Christian. There are many dharmic intellectuals who can destroy points made in this video one by one, and then Mr Peterson you will be the one left embarrassed by so many wrong claims in this video. To name few such dharmic intellectuals are Rajiv Malhotra, J Sai Deepak or Dr David Frawley. Kindly invite them or someone of their caliber to avoid such blunder of false claims made by the Christian philosopher in this video.
Mangalwadi is a pseudo historian. His points on sati and on caste system is reminiscent of the colonial discourse which is a white mand burden to civilise the barbarians. You can read the book by Dr Meenakshi jain "sati evangelicals Baptist missionary and the changing colonial discourse" Chapter 3 is early British application of Indian civilization which is a refute against the generalising argument as presented by mangalwadi. The book by Dr Meenakshi jain explains how these same arguments between JP and mangalwadi were made to legitimise colonial action and erode the native civilization
The “civility “of Amritsar …or Maybe the “ civility” of asking villagers to identify the real “God” by comparing whether the wooden cross or the marble murti statue would float in the river? Perhaps the partitions mathematics that Cambridge professors learned from Ramanujan and his dreams of Devi Mata was just them assuaging the savage of previously known truths they had in their pocket squares the whole time? the western saviourism Was both uninvited, unnecessary and wholly illegitimate. It’s why some are deemed immigrants while others are expats; why some are communities while others are tribes. I feel Sorry for Vishal more than anything..devastatingly ill informed.
Don't understand why Vishal said the Vedic teachings won't lead to truth, the 6 darshans which comprises the "Hinduism" religion is a way to the truth. Darshan literally means "sight", which fits perfectly to the example he gave of the elephant. But it is true that the truth is not something that you will arrive at by reading the scriptures, they can only lead you to it like a map, you have to actually take the journey.
@@jatre5938 Rightly stated by Sadhguru, the problem isn't religion per se. But the ego that comes with knowing that only your religion is the truth and you're going to heaven while everyone else following other religions are bound to go to hell.
@@siddhantsingh5962 yes indeed only few shall reach heaven thus you must know that there in no alternative for TRUTH therefore there's only one way ticket.
Never heard so much misinformation, and ignorance in a single video ever. And i am only a common citizen of india. An expert will destroy this piece by piece.
Ricebag cooking some nice khichdi, garnishing it with half-truths and missionary/colonial propaganda, and Peterson enjoying the dish and serving it to his pre-dominantly Christian-Right base as well. Lmao.
@@michaelaratnam6517 Again, that's missionary propaganda. India had the highest GDP in the entire world for much of all history before 17th century. Those goods & services were surely not being manufactured & exported by Brahmins or Kshatriyas. Get the drift.
@@michaelaratnam6517 Or maybe you are too dense to understand that the GDP was high till the time the Colonizers had not landed with their missionaries to loot the nation for 300yrs and turn the richest civilization in the world into the world's poorest, with manmade famines that killed millions - Yet, when the Colonizers left with their missionaries, more than 90% of people still retained their indigenous faith and culture. Cope. 😌
@@michaelaratnam6517 Conversely, you should also ask how come churches are empty and majority of the "Christians" in rich, christian west are leaving Christianity. Lol.
Can't use logic, facts or reason. Nor can you people have a respectable moral or theological discussion. Why would anyone take you seriously? This space is for those who are seeking the truth. Not for people with the maturity of a 9 year old.
Dr Peterson I highly recommend you to have conversation with J Sai Deepak. He is genuine person who can enlightened you about Hinduism. You previously misrepresented Ma Kali but thought I was wrong. But I am thinking you do not want to know about polytheism as much as you learn about monotheism. Please bring some good guests. In case of Russia Ukraine crisis also I believe you didn't bring the guest who can represent the side of Russia. I know I lack in terms of knowledge to you but it seems that my voice is not represented.
Your voice represents you. Perhaps you go backwards, with this comment you’ve made. If you feel unheard, that’s one thing. If you feel like your view is not be represented properly, that’s another. If you feel unheard, this might be the correct format. However if you feel underrepresented, then wouldn’t your job be to get better at speaking it, and speak it yourself? What responsibility does he have to represent your voice? Well he has none. Unless it becomes necessary to what he’s doing. It probably isn’t now. So then if you feel overlooked, perhaps you can fix some things about yourself. And you can. Grammar for one, might help. And perhaps make it to an event he’s attending. Email him if you think it’s important. The man has a million people watching him. What are you doing that makes it so important for you to be noticed by him? To be heard by him? Answer those well, and you will have just begun your path to competence, and will have your optimal means of being heard. By improving your logic, it’s representation, and starting to justify your conviction that others should hear it. Then you bash it against other truths and see who wins. Do that and you’ll be someone like Peterson. And you won’t need his voice. You’ll have yours, and others like yours.
@@sauravcyrus1935 I know but like other religions are taken in this podcasts like no one talked about Muslims and jihad christians and racism. Hinduism should have chance to present itself like everyone else. It is then up to Jordan Peterson to ask about cast issue and sati issue.
He is just another hate filled hindutva guy. He uses big words makes you think that he is an intellectual. But all he is trying to do is portray hinduism as some form of great thing when in reality it is regressive Philosophy which is not compatible with the modern world or else India would have been number 1 and Indians wouldn't try so hard to migrate to western Christian nations.
@@TheReaper569 I am an Indian nationalist. There's nothing wrong with that. What I have to say is that India has become worse off since Islam and Christianity came here.
@@globalnationalismyoutube or how about this? İndia became far worse than its ancient origins therefore fell to the influence of rising powers like islam and the west? İ also dont think indian women still need to be topless when prime minister arrives. So what became worse exactly.
@@TheReaper569 When Islam came millions of Hindus were killed. The Christians also killed millions of Hindus when they invaded and colonised us. India would have been better off if these invasions never happened.
From @48:56 to 51:01 1. The kings exploited the peasants, put that wealth as Gold, Silver & Diamonds inside temples, 2. So when an Invader attacks the Kingdom, why should an untouchable defend the kingdom. 3. This is what is happening in India today, everyday (i.e 2022) 4. The lower caste people who are trying to recover their dignity, because the Hindu religious system has made me lower than animals 5. For those who want to convert to christianity, there is persecution happening everyday in India today 6. Mr. Jordan Peterson then goes onto make statement that Hindu Caste system is so damming in the Biblical perspective and the Hindu Karma doctrine was a means to justify their situation 7. Karma justifies the suffering and any help done to elevate their suffering would be counter-productive 8. Vishal Mangalwadi:- it is even more bad and then goes on to justify the bible Statement 3 is for the present and rest all are of the past. Jordan Peterson :- All the statements do not sound to you as the similar case of the Kulaks, wherin a Lenin/Stalin needed to destroy the Bourgeoisie. You talk at length about the Kulaks and Alexander Solzhenitsyn. Counter for Statement No 3:- Lavanya (17), a Class 12 student of Sacred Hearts Higher Secondary School in Thanjavur district, had died by suicide in January due to the torture she suffered from two nuns of the school who pressurised her to convert to Christianity. She was made to drink pesticide and was forced to clean the toilets. And there are many more cases, if the Media talks about it the people like Vishal Mangalwadi get offended and make such statements. People like Vishal Mangalwadi are there everywhere who will only vitiate the environment, but you let your bias continue @1:25:36 onwards :- 9. Vishal Mangalwadi:- A Stone age tribe cannot be taught science or business law 10. Jordan Peterson:- Indirectly asks isn't it the responsibility of the western civilization to civilise these stone age people. @1:26:18:- the smug faces of both these individuals is a sight to behold The statements 9 & 10 are in direct contradiction with statement 1, A civilisation which had the means to build temples, generate wealth in the form of gold, silver diamonds then only a person like Vishal Mangalwadi & JP can behave like a colonialist to justify statements 9 & 10 these are just 2 issues, there are several other claims made by both. JP has brought a Crypto Christian to vomit his hatred about all things relating to Hinduism Not trying to say that caste discrimination or oppression does not exist, but for JP to be silent at statement no 3 is a huge disappointment. Maybe JP should have discussion with Meenakshi jain, Rajiv Malhotra or J Sai Deepak, but i highly doubt that would happen based on his behaviour as described in statements 9 & 10
49:00 , comparing discrimation with genocide ? we should also talk about crusades , Spanish inquistion , jews persecution , persecution of pagans , Goa inquisition , slavery done by christian churches , genocide of native Americans ,
From @48:56 to 51:01 1. The kings exploited the peasants, put that wealth as Gold, Silver & Diamonds inside temples, 2. So when an Invader attacks the Kingdom, why should an untouchable defend the kingdom. 3. This is what is happening in India today, everyday (i.e 2022) 4. The lower caste people who are trying to recover their dignity, because the Hindu religious system has made me lower than animals 5. For those who want to convert to christianity, there is persecution happening everyday in India today 6. Mr. Jordan Peterson then goes onto make statement that Hindu Caste system is so damming in the Biblical perspective and the Hindu Karma doctrine was a means to justify their situation 7. Karma justifies the suffering and any help done to elevate their suffering would be counter-productive 8. Vishal Mangalwadi:- it is even more bad and then goes on to justify the bible Statement 3 is for the present and rest all are of the past. Jordan Peterson :- All the statements do not sound to you as the similar case of the Kulaks, wherin a Lenin/Stalin needed to destroy the Bourgeoisie. You talk at length about the Kulaks and Alexander Solzhenitsyn. Counter for Statement No 3:- Lavanya (17), a Class 12 student of Sacred Hearts Higher Secondary School in Thanjavur district, had died by suicide in January due to the torture she suffered from two nuns of the school who pressurised her to convert to Christianity. She was made to drink pesticide and was forced to clean the toilets. And there are many more cases, if the Media talks about it the people like Vishal Mangalwadi get offended and make such statements. People like Vishal Mangalwadi are there everywhere who will only vitiate the environment, but you let your bias continue @1:25:36 onwards :- 9. Vishal Mangalwadi:- A Stone age tribe cannot be taught science or business law 10. Jordan Peterson:- Indirectly asks isn't it the responsibility of the western civilization to civilise these stone age people. @1:26:18:- the smug faces of both these individuals is a sight to behold The statements 9 & 10 are in direct contradiction with statement 1, A civilisation which had the means to build temples, generate wealth in the form of gold, silver diamonds then only a person like Vishal Mangalwadi & JP can behave like a colonialist to justify statements 9 & 10 these are just 2 issues, there are several other claims made by both. JP has brought a Crypto Christian to vomit his hatred about all things relating to Hinduism Not trying to say that caste discrimination or oppression does not exist, but for JP to be silent at statement no 3 is a huge disappointment. Maybe JP should have discussion with Meenakshi jain, Rajiv Malhotra or J Sai Deepak, but i highly doubt that would happen based on his behaviour as described in statements 9 & 10
Let’s talk Black people catching Black People to sell them firstly to arabs for 1000 years and then sold them to europeans. Let’s talk to who did abolished slavery and who were unhappy about it.
I had a lot of respect for JP, but this one episode has dented my image of him. Redefining India through the Christian lens has been attempted over and over by countless people since time immemorial. If you want to have a serious conversation about Hinduism and the history of it and India, bring on someone who doesn't have an extreme Christian and western bias at the very least. Bring someone who has actually studied Indian scripture (Vedas, Upanishads, Puranas, etc) in its original Sanskrit and has done comparitive studies with other religions like Sarvapriyananda.
BTW I am a so called "lower caste" according to Indian constitution and let me say I enjoy my rights 🙂, I am a staunch Hindu , and Hindus have Varna which depends on your job and qualities , caste word was derived from Portuguese word "Casta" , so JP you better educate yourself first. I am proud to be a Pagan, Heathen, kaffir , which your abrahamic cult have wiped out millions like us for "Jeebus" 😁 . we don't need lectures from Mlechhas 🤡 like you whose cult destroyed Sanatan culture and temples.
BTW I am a so called "lower caste" according to Indian constitution and let me say I enjoy my rights 🙂, I am a staunch Hindu , and Hindus have Varna which depends on your job and qualities , caste word was derived from Portuguese word "Casta" , so educate yourself first. I am proud to be a Pagan, Heathen, we don't need lectures from Mlechhas like you whose cult destroyed Sanatan culture and temples.
@@alienjay7703 the entire part where this evangelist masquerading as a professor tries desperately to portray how the "Bible" Shaped India and made it a modern nation, gave it values of equality and sovereignty 🤡🤡. Jp is clearly a western chauvinist.
@@singhnaveen5694 😂😂😂 actually I thought that for a while considering the content of the video like sati, female foeticide. India aur Hinduism ko defame karna inke jeevan ka maksad hai bc 🤣 J Saideepak would destroy this bullshittery left and right 🤣🤣✌️
@@singhnaveen5694 we are chilling only 😎 by the way read rajtarangni by kalhana..he was one of the ancient historican..though i guess you haven't heard about him...
This person is a true victim of Colonial Discourse. The distorted narratives of late medieval Christian missionaries have been 'internalized' by this person as 'true'; demonizing the Hindu way of life. A more honest understanding of Hindu way of life would 'reveal' a better comparative account of the two religions. His knowledge of Indian history, to make an understatement, is very poor indeed.
Karma basically means causes and consequences. The superstitious part exist in all religions at a low resolution interpretation. Eveyones should read guenon , his views about differents degrees of resolution in the religious content are significants.
I have read "The Book that Made Your World" and highly recommend it to anyone with an interest in history or different cultures. Amazing humble man! I am not sure he knows the significance of his work!
that book and it's author's entire life mission is to convert everyone into Cryinsanity.. that's why the book and his life is a joke.. better to ignore
But there is some mistake Christianity is not new to India when compared to Europe Christianity first came to India in AD 52 through St Thomas the disciple of Christ so Christ is known to south India in Kerala at the same time it was know to Europe and America
I know this is off topic and not aimed at you, but don't you find the whole eastern/western thing strange. Italy, Austria and half of Europe, australia, new Zealand, parts of Norway and japan are all in the Eastern hemisphere whilst venuzwaila, Paraguay, Cambodia with half of africa are all in the west.
No when they say west, it's referred to the western civilization. Which jp would say is judeo-christian civilization. which includes the several Latin American counties that are Christian
Mangalwadi mentions Charles Grant and William Wilberforce in this talk. Below is the extract from Sri meenakshi jain's book sati "Thus we trust, it has been envinced.... The moral character and condition of the natives is extremely depraved and the state of society is wretched. The evils have been shewn to lie beyond... however good they (hindoos) have been traced to their civil and religious institutions, they(hindoos) have been proved to inhere in general spirit and many positive enactments of law and more powerfully still in the false corrupt impure extravagant and ridiculous principles of their religious...a remedy has been proposed for these evils, the introduction of our light...".(Grant 1832: 120) Charles Grant could not help but appreciate the way of life of Hindus, but his overwhelming hatred for the heathens and desire for colonial power made him say the opposite. JP has admitted he does not know about history, in the beginning itself, but JP should not make the same generalisation about British colonialism
Vishal and JP are basically Christian Missionary at this point. This whole podcast was full of propaganda and manipulation🤦🏻♀️At least bring a pro-Hindu like Abhijit Chavda. man that's the least you can do
@@deepika2644 if you look they will bring islamic scholar for talking about Islam .christain preacher to talk about Bible and Jesus. It translates to call anyone to talk about India , it's culture it's philosophy, hinduism .. 😂😂 what's there wid this poor uncivilised pagans. 😂 Not so important. Just call anyone.
I'm not even Indian, but this is just pure nonsense, none of them understand basic philosophy of Sanatana Dharma, the principles of karma, dharma and the holy scriptures... : (
Twenty three minutes in and Mr. Mangalwadi has presented a hilariously distorted picture of Hinduism via texts (the Vedas) that apparently he hasn't read because they were never written down because there was no "script," I believe he said, I'm sitting here wondering if I'm actually hearing what I'm hearing, or if he understands what Sanskrit is? He dismisses the Vedas as basically incantations of magical rites that have nothing to do with knowing truth...has he never heard of Vedanta? Apparently not. Then he dismisses Islam, again on the basis of not being able to find a translation in his native tongue. So that's out. Then he starts to talk about the Bible representing it as an antisemitic text (what the actual f___ dude), rambles on into a discussion of Wittgenstein who, again, he doesn't seem to understand and seems to be confusing with a mangled version of Derrida... Of course Peterson is sitting there eating this up because he hasn't read the Koran or the Hindu holy books and his peculiar (mis)understanding of postmodernism was gained second-hand. I faded out and then you have Peterson insisting that the basis of individual human rights that is our legacy from the Enlightenment came from the Bible, again it's like The Age of Reason was a reaction to church authority in the name of science and rationality, hence the name. If Peterson wants to read an actual Enlightenment philosopher and Founding Father who considered the Bible idiotic and dangerous he would need seek no further than Thomas Paine. This video is a complete and utter waste of time except insofar as it leads people to seek the original sources themselves.
I think India is still a relatively poor nation because of Nationalistic pride. the Hindus and their Muslims rulers did very little to improve the lives of the common people, If they would adopt the positive attitude of nation who recognized that they have been an invaded (Not conquered) nation as Japan, and still can adapt their character to a new culture mixed with the indigenous features maybe by now they would be a world power, as as long as they live in denial their neighbors (like South Korea) will surpass them
hey Jordan, the guest feels flimsy by your standards. His reasons for not getting into vedas/quran are childish, he calls hindi india's national lang (it's not), and sorry I don't feel like listening to him for an hour or so more, I stopped here. Please bring someone who actually knows stuff and could talk about it with clarity. Also, the british brought in evangelists to educate/convert people to christianity and fortunately they failed. The country's just too big and too diverse. No disrespect to Indian Christians, them's the facts. Well, our old gods are still alive and we are probably one of the very few people on earth who could say that. Also, would love to hear your thoughts on hinduism or Indian civilisation as a whole :) Never seen you talk on that subject. Gang gang
Sanatana Dharma (Hinduism) has been and the more I immerse myself and open my heart and mind-the lost and Most Needed Truth-i have never felt more understood, understanding of others, motivated and at peace until I have made the effort to do the work to really understand the Vedas, Puranas and Ithihasa of my roots. I respect you deeply Dr Peterson and this man has every right to express his thoughts- but they do no reflect the feelings nor reality of many In India. The influence Indian thought and civilisation has had on the world is tremendous-history and religions over many thousands Years old. I hope you will be open to foray out of your comfort zone in Western philosophies and try to understand the true depth of Dharmic thought. Hindustan (India) is predicated on deep concepts that reflect in its diet, geography, history, and comfort with chaos..it is challenging to understand India through a Western ideology, For myself, Hinduism is the bliss I have sought for so long. Shivoham .
@@sauravcyrus1935 respectfully you are putting your agenda aren’t you? Or did you miss that? I will express how I choose to be fit as have you. The beauty of dharma is we are Sovereign with choice and freedom.
50:40 Omg, this a horrible understanding and a conflation of Brahminism with entire Hinduism. The social reformers in South India called Virashaivas and Basavanna and the Siddha Yogi traditions of Tamil Nadu, the Varkari Saint tradition of Maharashtra, Gaudiya Vaishnavism of Bengal, Nath Yogi Parampara of Middle India, the entire tradition of Yogis and Tantra people, all being Hindus have denounced Caste system and demanded equality. Even really Vedic Hindus when they oppressed were transgressing against the message of Vedas as in Bhagavat Gita it is clearly said you have to treat everyone as yourself and God resides them in all. This is literally saying love thy neighbour as thyself.
Go to India with a free mind. Not for a day or two. You will know what Hinduism is all about. It’s the the way of life. There are no books to read and learn about Hinduism.👍🏽
'The humble sages, by virtue of true knowledge, see with equal vision a learned and gentle brāhmaṇa, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater [outcaste]' Bhagavad Gita. Chapter 5, verse 18
But would he see a child being sacrificed and oppose it , would he see a rape and opppse it. If yes then he is admitting that some ways of life lead you away from God and all paths dont lead to God.
@@akhiljames3435 Jesus did not oppose the genocide of 100 million native americans, he does not oppose rapes committed every 1 to 2 minutes in the USA, he does not oppose child marriages in the US and UK, he does not oppose shooting of children in the US. And you are telling, this path leads to God? This is your reasoning?
I am a Hindu listener and fan of JBP for many years, since before he became very famous. I have read some of his books and listened to probably hundreds of hours of his UA-cam videos by now. I must say, this is perhaps the most dissapointing and shockingly propagandistic video I have ever witnessed of his. I am beyond saddened that millions of people will view this video and their first and probably only impressions of India and Sanatana Dharma/Hinduism will be the dirty missionary propaganda and debunked lies of Mr. Mangalwadi. For the past 15 years I have studied Hinduism, Vedic culture and Indian history. I also happened to grow up deeply fundamentalist Christian and was taught at my missionary schools all the same old points Mr Mangalwadi brought up. Over the years, I have researched for myself the many issues surrounding so called caste, widow burnings, child marriages, Brahmin supremacy and Aryan/Dravidian divide etc. What i have found is that all these issues were originally concocted by missionaries in order to gain entry into India. If you look at the accounts of the Greek, Persian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Tibetan, Nepali, Thai and Vietnamese historians and scribes, they were ALL in complete awe of India and Hindu civilization. Practically all of the world held india in the highest regard until fairly recently. Even the East India Company was amazed by the technology, education, medicine, architecture, ship building and textile industries of India. It wasn't until the missionaries started their public scare campaigns back home in Englad did you hear of such horrendous crimes being commited in India by bloodthirsty barbaric hindoo tribals. WIthout the approval of the parliament back in England, there was no way for the missionaries to legally enter India, they would be immediately sent back. So they concocted so many lies to presure the parliament into allowing them into India to "civilize the barbarians". Time and time again I was shocked to hear the outrageous claims and straight up lies told by this guest. Even the simple things like Hindi being the national language of India. India has no national language, let alone be it Hindi. I feel bad for JBP as he is self adimittedly ignorant on Indian history, civilization and Hinduism and knows no better. My hope is that JBP will have on a guest that actually knows what they're talking about, and an actual Hindu to represent HInduism and Indian civilization, instead of a converted Christian missionary with a clear bias and agenda. If you've read this far, I BEG of you to PLEASE look up these academics and intellectuals on UA-cam to get an accurate and truly profound depiction and description of Indian culture and Hinduism. Rajiv Malhotra, Meenakshi Jain, Koenraad Elst, Rohit Arya, Abhijit Chavda, David Frawley, Stephen Knapp. There are also fantastic channels such as: Sangam talks, Festival of Bharat, Infinity Foundation, Centre for Indic Studies, India Inspires, and The Carvaka Podcast. Please give these voices and platforms a chance before simply beliving what this Mr. Mangalvadi has presented here. Hari Om Tat Sat
I used to watch JBP in admiration, for his candid and brilliant articulation abilities. Not anymore, "For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?”
This conversation has so many factual and theoretical errors thats its mind boggling. The only reason why Dr Peterson didnt counter it might be because he doesnt know Indian history and its religious philosophies, as he himself confesses in the beginning. That being said, a proper Indic scholar well versed on the Indic framework itself should be called on to discuss these matters if Dr Peterson is interested in a nuanced perspective and not the inaccurate hogwash that is characteristic of many historians with vested interests.
Hi Mike, The UA-cam comment section is certainly not the place to speak about these matters at length. They require nuance and also several historical and philosophical aspects to be made clear. I will share an article at a later time. Moreover, by pointing out the issues with Vishal's narrative (which he surely is free to do so as he pleases) will not be seen an honest intellectual exercise by people like our friend Michael, no matter how well grounded I am in the matter. So I respectfully decline from going forward with this conversation on the comment section. Please reach out separately if interested. Thanks
@@nitinajithkumar If an accusation is levelled against someone then there should be a minimum decency to provide facts to backup those accusations which is sign of scholarly understanding else it is considered as a kiddish way of name calling and running away under the guise of respectability which was already lost when the accusations were levelled....it can also reflect as an intent of creating confusion and doubts in infant minds who blindly follow their masters. I just asked for a few out of the many mind boggling errors you observed my frn.
@@meetjeev if there was one or a few or several errors there, it would have been possible to point them out and present with facts and lengthy discussions on the subjects particular. but due to the sheer pointlessness of this video and the errors and ramblings of this propagandist Mangalwadi, it is made impossible for any person to try to present each of it with facts and especially because that would be pointless, as the man talking in the video lacks any credibility you can ever give to him. read through the comment section you'll find many arguments, presentation of facts therein and many more things. take this comment in indifference. this is written in an indifferent manner.
The guest's views on the Hindu Dharma are unfair and perverse. Dr Peterson, it is a kind request that you invite a practicing Hindu speaker and provide an opportunity to throw light on the Dharma. These are mischievous opinions that preserve and nurture falsehoods.
I am someone who is fond of Dr. Jordan Peterson. In fact, I feel that I agree with him on many things that he has to say. But I believe that Dr. Peterson needs to bring in fresh ideas in his podcasts. Every podcast seems to now simply repeat the same underlying idea which I think is detrimental to reaching the truth. I am sad to say this but Dr. Peterson's remarks are becoming quite predictable and surprisingly most of his guests seem to have similar kinds of opinions that he does. It is very disappointing. Vishal Mangalwadi sure does have a strong opinion about Indian culture prior to British rule. I feel this opinion of his is formed by looking at the subject through a very extreme lens. Perhaps Dr. Peterson could have brought someone to share the other perspective on the matter so as to balance the narrative of the entire video. Dr. Peterson needs to venture out of his comfort zone which is that of looking at the subject matter through a Christian and western lens. I suggest this because looking at things from various different perspectives helps give a more holistic representation of a subject matter. Only exploring one aspect results in further polarization which is something I believe Dr. Peterson accepts is a dangerous phenomenon that is occurring extensively right now in western society. I would like to conclude by imploring Dr. Peterson to start actively exploring more diverse subject matter with a more diverse range of perspectives so as to show his support against violent polarization and to advocate for more open and productive debates of ideas.
Whom would you suggest? Looking through his last selection of guests, they're diverse in their beliefs and fields of speciality. Maybe he needs somebody from the far-left, and somebody from the far-right?
@@StevenOBrien and Dawkins really took him to task, it was funny but I appreciated jbp sticking to his guns about why he said what he said while also admitting that it was speculation in the highest order
I highly doubt Jordan Peterson would ever bring on people like Sarvapriyananda who actually knows, practiced and studies Hinduism, Vedanta, Buddhism and instead bring people who further reinforces his extreme Christian and Western bias.
I'm JP'S ONE OF BIGGEST FANS, having learned a lot from him through his lectures ( especially his biblical lectures) but I have to say this with a heavy heart that this video seemed to me to be christian propaganda and promoting falsehoods about Hinduism and India. Individual identity should be greater than group identity, is one among the many lessons I have learned from Dr. Jordan Peterson; but lately I have noticed that DR. Jordan Peterson has himself forgotten that lesson . it's sad to see him constantly harping on about how the Bible is the ultimate truth and everything good came from it and that other scriptures and epics are only partially true and more often than not evil. He needs to study india and hinduism in more detail imo, and this is coming from an admirer of not just JP but of Jesus Christ too. I hope he sees this comment.
Christianity is entirely about individual identity. You cannot be a Christian by joining a Christian club/church/group. It is an individual relationship with God. Check out what Jesus said to Nicodemus in the gospel of John.
300 bce greek historian Megasthenes wrote in his book Indika that "all Indians are free not one of them is a slāve". This was 300 years before Christ was even born. And European civilization on the other hand had blacks as slāves in literal chains and human zoos of blacks and Asians even as late as in 20th century. So much so for bible and british colonialism "civilising" us? Huh
@@michaelaratnam6517 Megasthenes was not a tourist. He's called a historian for a reason. By saying that he was duped by Indians, you are only questioning his authority and intelligence. Ok let's take another example. Of chinese Xuanzang a Buddhist monk, scholar, traveler, and translator. He visited India in 7th century ad. He also wrote a lot of details about India, he never mentioned any sort of slavêry in India, forget about slāvêry, he didn't even mention any sort of discrimination in Indian society. infact no one did before british, not even Turks who also invāded subcontinent, but I don't take the authority of invāders as fact. Let's take another example of latest historians like Will Durant, know who he is? Durant wrote that "The British conquest of India was the invasion and destruction of a high civilization by a trading company utterly without scruple or principle, careless of art and greedy of gain, over-running with fire and sword a country temporarily disordered and helpless, bribing and murdering, annexing and stealing, and beginning their career of illegal and 'legal' plunder which has now gone on ruthlessly for one hundred and seventy-three years." And here's what Will Durant said about Islāmic conquest of India, the so called Mughals of central Asia who Invāded India before the british, "The Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex of order and freedom, culture and peace, can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without or multiplying within." He said many more things about India, i would suggest you read some of his work. Moving on... India was not invāded by Britishers only. India is one of the most invāded country in the world. Invāsions started in 8th ad century itself. Slāvêry came along with these invāsions. British first came to Bengal province of India. That province was still under Mughal rule who had slavês. Marathas already liberated majority of India from mughals and abolished slāvêry in 1677 itself. By that time british were only limited to Bengal. After that british took over by defeating Marathas and once again, India was invāded. Slāvêry was also brought back by Britishers.
I can take Vishal's point of view, but it isn't anywhere close to the actual take on Hinduism. Allahabad isn't a Muslim city either. I get that his introduction to Hinduism was clothed in ritual and utterances of mantras, but that is far far from how Hinduism is followed, or followed in the past. Feel like he has an unconscious bias against religions that he moved away from, and has a very nascent understanding of any of the concepts.
@@rajeshshetty4862 if you follow anyone, even JP, as though they can do no wrong, and that you have to merely mirror their opinion, you aren't really a JP follower. You've missed the point of all his self help work.
@Taevas True that. While I feel it was his intention to get someone well versed with the Bible, JP would probably not know if his take on Hinduism is shared by at least a good portion of people. This certainly wasn't.
@Jordan B Peterson you should do a podcast with Abhijit Chavda, Dr. Subhas Kak, or Rajiv Malhotra for a better understanding of Indian History and culture. Christianism in India, and Vedas. Abhijit doesn't mince his words or try to sugarcoat or whitewash History. For Sanskrit, you can invite Nityānanda Miśra. He is very good. The Cast system explained by Mr. Vishal is pretty misleading. The Cast system itself needs a whole podcast.
From being 100 percent educated before British and 17 percent in 1947, secondly the greek ( cradle of western civilization ) recognised indians as sages and people of great culture and knowledge , the philosophy of various thing that you call western has its origins from India , the are various mentions buy Greeks themselves that indian was a republican state read megatheses plz , there no battle of philosophy and science between your civilization and mine ,plz read
Incorrect. Alexander's Greeks invaded India a full two and a half thousand years ago. At that time, there was no unitary entity called India. The region was populated with various republics and kingdoms.
Just a few ideas about contextualising issues surrounding topics discussed .... TL:DR .... India is incredibly huge and a serious investigation of what its religion, culture and politics actually means and how they developed requires way more than just a few anecdotes. *the west had its own caste system, namely the estates. That was effectively dismantled by the industrial revolution. India got (and is still getting) its industrial revolution quite late. India received in about the 20th century over 65 years what the west received in about 17th century over 300 years. This has a ton of implications ranging from the very idea of nationhood (what to speak of ideas surrounding "nationhood", once that term becomes a viable tool for a community's rumination in the space opened up by a redundant or disintegrating caste/estate system ) to the delegation of civic order in the tension between legally accounted mandated laws and mere social norms (there is nothing in the contemporary western lexicon that approximates the Panchayati Raj, namely how things are to this day managed at the Indian village level). I think it is less a question of the degree that Christianity has influenced contemporary India and more a question of how the concomitant offshoots that Christianity pioneered (such as legal frameworks around nationhood, economics, the "institution" as a new social technology, etc) that is more to the point. Its more that because there were no institutions per se (much like there were, for the most part, no institutions in medieval Europe), there were no institutions operating to manage compassion, charity etc. The notion that people in India required Christianity in order to integrate base notions of compassion and charity is absurd. * Early 1980's India (by all accounts), with Indira Gandhi, was incredibly turbulent. The world was looking on kind of nervously wondering whether there was going to be a democracy or a despotic form of government. Doesn't matter where you look in the world, you are not going to find shining examples of virtue in persons who are caught in the grip of poverty and chaos. Politics is pretty zany everywhere, and the fact that the comings and goings, for better or for worse, of the world's largest democracy never really permeates international news feeds is an indication that there is something about it that just has too much background information and noise to be easily digestible. *Because there is a sort of village identity that predominates in rural India, it is less the case that individuals convert to Christianity and more the case that families and even entire villages convert to Christianity. And a lot of the times there can be a sort of coercing or reluctance that goes into that .... and this creates its own unique tensions that commonly and inevitably creates flashpoints .... and at that time people outside see the flashpoints but have no vision of the causes. For instance, a common method for proselytising is to offer cash incentives (maybe something like 1000usd per person) to convert to Christianity. A lot of the time that comes with a lot of disparaging of local customs (often broadcast over 120 decibel loud speakers outside the church ... its kind of par for the course of religion in India, regardless of faith ... the 120 decibel PA system, not the public disparagement of competing faiths) ... 8th commandment is kind of a popular one to be vocal about, more so than the 1st... so it is less a "leap of faith" as it is commonly understood in the west and more a covert form of manipulation, enticement or just simply going along with what you have already thrown your lot in with socially, whether it be one's family or one's village. Of course others who may convert in more urban or educated circles would certainly have a different experience, but it is mostly in these village backwater places that all these news stories about extreme christian persecution come from. Anyway I am just offering this by way of explanation. I don't think there is any obvious solution. It is part of a bigger issue in that Indian culture has traditionally been introverted, and the notion that a universalizing proposition demands proselytising is just borrowed from the west, .... and there's a whole lot of circling the wagons that now goes on in the name of orthodoxy, and not exclusively in expressions of christianity, I might add ... * there is a tendency to default to the notion that adwaita (monist) schools are the sole contender for India's spiritual heritage, completely bypassing the dwaita (dualist) schools. I think this is because the monist school integrates better with Buddhism (and historians love being able to show cause and effect seamlessly). There is an even an argument that the British gave , upon their arrival on the scene, undue importance to monism (love of historians, the unavoidable and awkward problems of sanskrit being patently categorized as an "Indo-European" language, etc).There is literally a ton of commentaries available from the past 1000 or so years on precisely what the dualists (Ramanuja, Madhva, Nimbarkha, Vishnuswsmi) and the monists (Sankhacharya) have to say about things. This is not just some cerebral venture into ecclesiastical hair splitting ... when citing Brahman (the undifferentiated oneness that permeates reality) as an orthodoxical precept that errodes personalism (and thus underpins a malefic disregard of civic obligation in the guise of impersonalism), one really should examine precisely what orthodoxy one is drawing from. For a very basic starter, such an examination would determine whether there is value in decompressing the 4 vedas or beginning first with the Puranas (Narratives based on the vedas). Given Peterson's full engagement with narrative, it is disappointing to not really see him engage with the Puranas. Even in Maps of Meaning, when he briefly touched on Indra's encounter with Vrtasura (a pastime that is packed with core values of the dualist schools), it rung of some sterile excerpt from the work of some other santized monist influenced western academic who probably didn't know any better himself.
I believe you haven't really learned nor listened to anything JP has been preaching throughout the years as evident from your disappointment. One must be always ready to have discourse with individuals who differ ideologically from us and also listen, we don't necessarily have to agree with them but simply let them make their case too.
JP turned out to be a closet Evangelical fanatic. I realize that he lacks the ability to comprehend the true meaning of Dharma. Another whitewashing of Christian brutality. Abrahamics should first learn to accept unbelievers fully, only then can you go into criticisms of other social structures.
It's great that the most translated music is the christian music right? Empowering the locals to develop their music culture, nothing that secularism or any other religion have been able to do.
Gandhi was inspired by Tolstoy, who gave his life to Christ. When you say “no role,” that’s a pretty blanket statement for a country with over a billion people, where regions are separated by thousands of different gods, different religions, different sects, different political cultures…. So perhaps you mean Christ didn’t influence your town or city or region?
The Indian Caste System is a joke. People think they are so high and mighty just cus they were born into a family with a last name that solely decides their success in life. While other lower class people have no choice but to stay low for generations just cus their last name from thousands of years ago was low. It’s BS
JP, Bible undoubtedly had a huge impact on the West. But it has very little impact on India. Someone as mature and esteemed as you should have brought someone who's a practicing Hindu or Vedanta scholar to represent Hinduism. Because India has been shaped a huge deal by Hindu scriptures like Upanishads, Vedas, Bhagavad Gita or even Manusmriti. This fellow completely misrepresented Hindu concepts of Karma and Caste system. Bring, the likes of Swami Sarvapriyananda, Swami Mukundananda etc in your podcast. Hinduism is a beautiful religion, don't misrepresent it.
i mean what do u expect from him....he is obsessed with christianity....the person he brought is also obsessed with christianity...lol...look him up on google...his lectures will surely give u a good laugh atleast....just because JP is against left doesnt make him all righteous...he still is that christian who calls maa kali a satan....u are still a pagan aka satanist fro him......christian who killed people who didnt adhere to christianity...and pushes propaganda to spread christianity in india as rampantly as they can thats why he gave this mangalwadi his platform to misguide people...he knows many people hear him across the world why dont he use this advantage to help missionaries in india and create a notion abt hinduism across west...since many people in the west have started to look towards eastern philosophies and are atheist when comes to christianity
Am a huge admirer of yours, however, have been lately put off by your discussions with persons of different religions. They have about as much reality as there is water you can drink directly from the ocean. Wish you has read up about India before this interview. India is older than 400 years old. You may like to know that Arabs don't consider Indian muslims as real ones as they were converts by the sword not by faith. Indian christians are also pretty similar. India was more psychologically advanced than most of the psychologists and philosophers you so admire. You have been gas lit by this ricebag christian. Sorry your naivete has let you down. Can't imagine where you found such a person from.
I am a huge fan of your lectures, the way you think and speak has channelized my intellect significantly. Extremely disappointed that this talk even happened, it goes to show the level of ignorance and blind eye that you turn towards India and its history. It is a grave injustice to you as a scientist and a seeker of truth, to let this huge mistake be left unaddressed. I humbly urge you to dive deep into understanding the history and philosophy that comes from the great land of Bharat to set the record straight. It is understandable that everyone need not know everything, but when there is so much untruth being given a stage like this even a busy and learned man like you has to take a step back and re-evaluate. Given your intellectual stature in the west, I believe it is imperative for you to show us that you are actually an open-minded person and not just a blind missionary of the church.
Lmao your scriptures 💀. The Indian constituency itself is inspired from West. If it was inspired by your Scriptures there won't be education for women and lower caste won't get the rights and education they deserve
@@deepika2644 Good lie. Says a guy whose country is populated by 79% of hindus but get scared of 2% minority religion. Firstly those tribal people are Animist and spiritist not a part of Brahman dharm. Those Tribal people that got converted were due to education and facility Christianity gave them.
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This missionary men trying to make fight between Hindus & Muslims in india
@@Adhilmedia Is it??? Wow
Question not related to this video. I have seen a video where you say that a man becomes a man when his dad dies. Do you think it could be the same or similar for women?
I’ve known of 2 men that when their mom died was when their lives changed.
JP I have few questions and observations. If you want your missionary propaganda to succeed than go on but if you are a real seeker and if you really are not a zombie missionary then do the following:
1. Bring a pro Hindu person to talk about Hindus because you are a declared missionary now.
2. If it's possible come out of your prejudice and hate for a culture which you know through only another zombie missionary.
3. When you discussed Islam you brought a pro Islam person but when you discussed Hinduism you brought a zombie missionary that's sad.
4. JP just be aware that Karma is so real that zombie missionary can't grasp it so talk to some level headed Yogi.
5. Caste system is not the bed rock of India period.
6. If you are a reasonable person as you project bring a Hindu saint to discuss and let me see if you even stand a chance fir missionary propaganda.
@@Adhilmedia aahhaa malayaliyo?
"What did the Mughals do for India?"
"They built the Taj Mahal" 🤣
Seriously dude?
It's very clear how biased he is and where he is coming from!
Malgalwadi's views are not the real data --- he has made up his world
watch Jaipur dialogues for the refutation ---
How was he biased?
@@shravyaamin8346 Because he used some straw man arguments in his talks, which missionaries have used for generations ............ If you want to know what he said wrong about then watch the full series of refutation of this talk In " Sangam Talks " or "Jaipur dialogues" UA-cam channel
@@shravyaamin8346 No amount of explaining from my side would help if you don't see anything wrong in this conversation.
@@shravyaamin8346 lol 😂 point is that Mughals only built taj mahal and s.. but never worked for the betterment of public. I.e universities, centre of knowledge,facilities medical . That’s why their name is synonym with ayyashi. Randi and handi is reason for their downfall . Get it?
JP should, for the sake of fairness, invite a learned Hindu scholar/advocate like J Sai Deepak or Sadguru. We have too many people to represent our ancient civilization in a fair manner. I'm sure JP being a respected intellectual will do this.
Def not sadhguru. He gives good advices and can debate well. He doesnt know aything about scriptural knowlesge!!! I have seen him say utter nonsense regarding many tipics, sometimes i wpnder if he is secretly working for the christians
Definitely not sadhguru. He is no historian.
JP will not do it.
This one podcast has exposed his hypocrisy or his fear of Indic civilisation.
@@Lakshyam9 He will. Or we shall call him to India. lol
J Sai Deepak is on another level in IQ, Jordan won't be able to handle him😂😂...Also to understand scriptures Acharya Prashant is best
So a 5000+ year old culture and the world's oldest religion and multiple holy scriptures and the time dedicated to understand that is just 2 hours.
And people study one book The Bible their whole life and discuss about it everytime they had an opportunity.
Talking to better people can spark JP's interest in India and it's culture
It is difficult to comprehend multi-verse.
Pun intended
This is just so PATHETIC it is astounding.
Talk to Rajiv Malhotra
He is not interested in understanding Hinduism. Heis is driven by the agenda of Christianity.
Worst take ever. "They only talked about my religion for 2 hours!!??" You do understand that most people have other things to do In a day other than discuss history and philisophy, right?
The more I learn about history from different perspectives, the more I realize how misled my entire generation has been. It's depressing, and we have yet to see the implications of such flawed education across the entirety of the western world.
You can say that again.
Now is a good time to re educate yourself.
I wholeheartedly agree!! I strongly resonate with your statement. I also feel the same way about many subjects in education beyond history. One being economics and how the Keynesian school is just assumed to be best. Marxism is discussed but the Chicago and Austrian schools are hardly mentioned if at all. The idea of Archetypes is another one. I was taught that Archetypes are simply a theme people make up and copy off of such as Damsel in Distress. On that level it seems so patriarchal and chauvinistic. But Dr Peterson has shown me the truth. Archetypes are part of our collective subconscious and we are predisposed to understanding them. How intriguing and novel!
The world tries so hard to disparage Christianity, but after listening to this, once again I am reminded that the truth is, the entire civilized world owes it's ideas of equality, tolerance, justice etc..., to Christianity.
Progressives hate the church and go out of their way to try and paint the history of the Church as evil, but the truth is, even progressives concepts of evil, of right and wrong, was appropriated from Christianity.
@@matthewsilver5455 I love your point about archetypes being something we are predisposed to understanding. I believe this to be the case. It's so odd, the lay-man, who hasn't read a lot (I include myself in all this), isn't traditionally educated, hasn't been exposed to the well fleshed-out meanings behind archetypes, can still watch a great film or see a great president etc, and feels within them the biological impulse to imitate. Which only raises more questions, because how can mere biology push you to imitate things which are not real, in a sense. These ideas of good and bad that archetypes are, just leaves me wondering, how can cells, brain matter, neurons etc, understand that some things are worth imitating. They are after all, just a collection of chemicals/atoms arranged neatly, according to the atheistic world view. Dr Peterson has been a gateway drug to my own expansion/acceptance of the fact that being so staunchly atheistic as I was before, was an extremely simple minded way of viewing the world.
Dear Jordan, I wanted to say thank you for helping me through the most difficult time of my life. I am Ukrainian and my city Mariupol was destroyed by the Russians. My parents escaped to Romania where my mum passed away just a few hours ago. If this is not a perfect disaster I don’t know what is…
But reading and listening to your books and lectures made me more resilient and just a better person. I support my family in this hard time and what could have been a total chaos and catastrophe becomes a loss. Hard but manageable to our family coming together. Thank you 🙏
।।ॐ शांति।। परमात्मा तुम्हारी माता की आत्मा को शांति प्रदान करें तथा तुम्हे इन कठिन परिस्थितियों से लड़ने की शक्ति दें। ।।ॐ।।
May her memory be eternal
God bless you and may God save Ukraine from the evils of war
God be with you friend. I'm sorry to hear for your loss.
R. L. , I'm praying for you. 🙏
It didn't shape anything in India
It did to some extent. Also India isn't just your North India btw.
@@rorschach4391 i'm from south and i agree with him
@@omnipotent3309 I am from North East and I disagree with both of you.
@@rorschach4391 cuse your brainwashed by church lol .
@@rorschach4391 I am from south and no it didn't
This conversation was extremely biased. If Jordan Peterson is truly interested in getting a holistic perspective of India and Hinduism, he should talk to Sanjay Dixit (Jaipur Dialogues), J Sai Deepak, Pandit Satish Sharma and Abhijit Chavda.
Mr. J Sai Deepak is way too sharp to play with for Mr. J.P. JSD is a bias killer, remedy and nightmare at the same time for these intellectual turned evangelists.
Please tag Jordan on Twitter along with these guys so that he gets in touch with reality.
😂😂😂😂.
The guy is the discussion is a Protestant evangelical.
Just check his channel.
So the 'great' JP turns out to be just this???
Cannot grasp the profundity of Indic civilasation
Complains for being baised, asks to call baised hindutva nationalists. 👏
If Jordan Peterson wants to understand India and the civilisation why he has to go to now a Christian person? Give an opportunity to one who lives here and is practising the tradition here. This is not pursuit of truth, it feels more like hidden Christian propaganda by denigrating the other religion. Sorry the guest is so wrong about things discussed. I protest the wrong things said about the community and our history.
I do not believe Jordan is trying to use Christian propaganda. He titled his video correctly- therefore we knew the premise of the topic and its direction for discussion. Jordan is quite good about allowing representation of other sides, whether or not he agrees or disagrees with the information being spoken on. Check out his video with an Islamic church leader. The video conversation is about the history of Islam and the reasons behind their justifications for the way they rule/follow their religion. Email Jordan and give him the name of a quite brilliant person to represent another side of India's practices opposite of this video. Just make sure the person you recommend is intelligent enough to hold their own in the conversation
@@stormystrikes I very well believe Jordan's skills and intellect. I myself have benefitted from him in my personal growth over the last 4 years. I do not agree him on this video. I feel he hasn't put enough arguments/ questions in against which I usually see him do, so many times. Possible his lack of knowledge on this subject but I don't know and like him I would want a fair dialogue, better than this.
Also, thanks for the suggestions I like the idea of emailing some recommended guests. There are plenty of abled 'Indians' with whom Jordan would love to hold ground with. I will definitely send him some suggestions as name of such abled men to talk to on the matter of India, culture, history and related revolutions of all forms and religion. I just really hope he gets across my mail.
There is a reason that Christian countries fare better than others, someday when you are ready for the truth come back to this video.
@@COINsimp2024 Measurements of faring should also include external factors in case of low faring nations. Geopolitics have a say in this and not the Christianity.
@@COINsimp2024 ha ha. Take go take a history course my friend. Bible is nt world history. Other parts of the world were doing quite well even before the arrival of Jesus.
The entire conversation is about how the west civilized us Indian Hindu savages or rather the pagans. We pagans used to only wage war against each other with no sense of science, knowledge or even literacy at all.
Had I not read Author J Sai Deepak's bestseller book "India that is Bharat", I'd have believed this entire conversation including the "holier than thou" evangelical practices of the Brits.
Nice to see Indians in the comment section standup for our Indic values of our civilization.
Hence pointing out some utterly problematic sections of this Interview -
1. "The role Bible played in shaping it as a country" / Bible played no role in shaping India, yes Christians opened schools in India but many of them used to convert the students covertly/overtly, just like they have done in Canada. and Common!! our Lord Krishna in Geeta said i m from whom this universe emerged and into which it will go. You seriously think we need a book and a messenger/son of God to look upto.
2. "Allahabad was Muslim city & it's name got changed to a Hindu one 2 years ago" / False statement - Allahabad name was given to ancient Hindu city Prayag by Muslim ruler Akbar around 1580 AD. Prayag finds its mention even in Vedas.
3. "India's national language is Hindi" / Westerners cant wrap their mind around the fact that a nation could have 19500 spoken languages ( yes 19500 !! ) , out of which 22 are listed in Indian constitution. Again a falsehood on guest's side.
4. Vishal's understanding of the Vedas ( the most ancient religious text of humankind) is superficial, almost like a fifth grader.
5. Vedas says "it's the absolute truth" or "to gain power", again a false statement on Vishal's side. Let me just quite from Rigveda (oldest of four Vedas) it goes "Ekam Sat Viprah Bahudhah Vadanti" literally means Truth is one but learned ones call it by many names. It is not a Hindu truth its a cosmic/Universal truth and one can reach it by different paths.
6. "Vedas are magical words." / again a false statement. They are ancient texts so naturally Hindus and many foreigners have a reverence to it but calling it magical is a great misunderstanding.
7. "Sanskrit language doesn't have script." / It has many scripts historically, latest being Devanagari.
8. "Karma justifies suffering & the caste system" / any common man in streets in India will laugh on this. trust me.
10. "You cant teach science or business laws to a stone age tribe as their dialect doesn't have the vocabulary/grammar." / Really ??? Ok.. Yes.. Yes.. got it pagans are savages and all. FYI these same Hindus have created most ancient knowledge systems and philosophy. A complex philosophical/psychological system with 6 different subsystems in it. HH Dalai Lama said once "Western psychology is a kindergarten stuff in front of Indian psychology". Not my words. Search google.
11. Also, the same old Charles Grant & William Wilberforce narrative. I came across those dangerous propaganda via "India that is Bharat" book.
12. JP & Vishal basically saying that we Hindu pagans should've gone extinct because we had savagery practices :) just like the other ancient civilizations of Maya or Egypt etc.
But then the Bible stepped in and saved us Indians. What a joke!
Thankyou JP for making mockery of a 5000+ year old continuous civilization by inviting Christian converts like Vishal to represent India on your platform. Disappointed!!
Very correct analysis
Below is the extract from Dr Meenakshi jain's book "Sati"
"Thus we trust, it has been envinced.... The moral character and condition of the natives is extremely depraved and the state of society is wretched. The evils have been shewn to lie beyond... however good they (hindoos) have been traced to their civil and religious institutions, they(hindoos) have been proved to inhere in general spirit and many positive enactments of law and more powerfully still in the false corrupt impure extravagant and ridiculous principles of their religious...a remedy has been proposed for these evils, the introduction of our light...".(Grant 1832: 120)
Charles Grant could not help but appreciate the way of life of Hindus, but his overwhelming hatred for the heathens and desire for colonial power made him say the opposite.
Well done on calling out the bs 👏. This podcast was a huge disappointment.
@@Aj-ch5kz 🙏
pagan
@@al-kimiya6962 christian missionary zeal is so amusing to watch.
Dr. Jordan, I love and respect you a lot but it's very sad to see you going this route. The ancient Hindu dharma is what that has shaped India not British Imperialism. In fact, it is the British colonialism and its Divide and Rule policies that broke India and caused unspeakable atrocities against Indians. Dr. Jordan, you have a lot to learn about India and its true history. Please do it and that knowledge you gain will help you in shaping humanity for better.
The one history the whole world knows about india is the lack.of toilets and a humongous number of rapists
The British is who literally brought democracy to India lol. Before that, there were only empires. Railways, Airports, Courts, Ships and plethora of other developments are still owed to the British.
Btw, I'm not ignoring the fact that the British plundered India.
He is, in many ways than not, a Eurocentrist after all, in their view, like the British, think that the “dawn of mankind” happened because of western civilisation.
Yup including southeast asia
@Respected Sir, so what do you want, Autocracy?
Bring islamic scholars to talk about Islam it's civilization , bring christain preachers to talk about christanity ,Bible its history . And bring just random anyone to talk about India , it's civilization , hinduism and its history. This whole podcast felt like the unfinished business of the European colonizer 😝 and the last chance to civilize the uncivilised pagans 😂😂 !
Exactly.
Right ??!!
True
It is very shameful that Jordan Peterson is doing that
@@Noname-oq9mk JBP is ignorant on the indic issues, definitely without any malicious intentions. But he is definitely incorrect in bringing a missionary to understand indic faith. I mean, it doesn't make sense. If someone wants to explore the history and dharma of a land, they should bring their expert at least.
I have never heard this vile version of Hindu history.... I request Jordon Peterson to call credible indic scholars like Sanjay Dixit, J Sai Deepak or Swami Savrvapriyananda..
Khush kar diye bhaiya tum. Dil jeet liye. Jio mere maati ke sher.
Peterson doesn't care about India. He cares about justifying the genocide across the worlds by white people, and he cares about spreading the cancer of Christianity.
"Vile"? That's a strong statement. In that case we'll just leave it right there 🤷🏻
Too bad you won't engage with his ideas. Just label it and whine to censor the ideas you disagree with. Nice job!
You should counter his "false ideas" with arguments and evidence. Otherwise, take a seat.
As an Indian fan of Dr. Peterson, I'm extremely disappointed seeing this. Christianity has had an insignificant impact on India. Even today, Christians constitute less than 2% of the population.
There is no need to understand a civilization that predates Christ by millennia through the lens of Christianity which was introduced to India by colonizers a few centuries ago. The guest is a convert who seems to think that the pagan Indian needed civilizing, a trope used by British Imperialists and their symapthizers such as Kipling to justify the most heinous crimes committed by the British Empire.
If Dr. Peterson is really serious about exploring themes of Indian Civilization, he should invite scholars and academics of Indian history and Hindu culture on his channel.
Edit : In response to replies on this thread - Yes, I know Christianity came to India as early as the first century AD, but it was not a feature of mainstream Indian Intellectual life. Much of what has shaped Indian civilization for millennia are intellectual, cultural and religious ideas derived from the Vedic religions (ie., what is today called Hinduism) and Nastik religions (ie., Buddhism, Jainism etc.) and later Islam after the islamic invasions. This is simply a historical fact that needs to be acknowledged.
It's not the colonizers who brought Christianity to India..there was christians even before that.infact,the colonizers forcefully made the existing Christians join their sect...you can look up the Coonan Cross Oath.
How come you so called Indians don't even know anything about India outside of your respective North India.
@@finprol943 true the church of the east and its foundations were set potential during the 2nd century
True.Christianity is very insignificant to India.
@chandruae “Christianity has had an insignificant impact on India”. You really do need an education now, don’t you? Your benighted ilk have nothing better to do than grasp at straws … or hijabs. Or loudspeakers. Or mosques. Or Christian congregations. Why, pray, are the 85% so terrified of the 3%?
Just one correction Hindi is not the national language of India, it's just the most popular and widespread language among 22 official languages written down in the Constitution.
Lmao
He shitted on Hindus left, right and centre and you have Hindi problem. Really Bro!!!
@@goodfty too many right... An average indian kid is atleast bilingual... I myself am trilingual... I can speak and write in 3 languages and can compose decent poetry in two... People learn 3 languages till 8th grade in the southern states
Hindu don't want to listen any Hindu who's praising Bible. Because they don't want to be loose their 1st position in religion.
@@sauravcyrus1935 he intervieved a religious philosopher from india who is a christian, its funny
The ancient India and that means the overall structure of way of life if studied in reference to the stories, script, information available then it is simply - those old people believed that the life is a journey, while an individual's soul is a driver and the body/character named in the current life is a vehicle in this journey. Vedas were mechanism that they believed can charge the vehicle so that the journey can be completed in most efficient way of life. Vedas if you focus on the part of karmakanda (ceremonial practice) then it will sound as if they are here to deliver magic but if you refer them from philosophical base they have you will understand it is a practice that they want to demonstrate for the journey of life. How to live on this earth alongside all the natural resources may it be sun, moon, trees, animals. Later people made Shrutis and Upanishads to reflect those philosophical content in Veda in form of short stories so that people can easily understand instead of expecting magics. Hinduism is in current period is referred as religion but if you look at old practices it doesn't seem to be religion. Dharma as they referred was not focused on "God" it was focused on an individual's duties towards its family, community etc. Varna system was to organise the large group of people based on their skills and assign them duties. Unfortunately as people gained undestanding how they can use their skills to gain power and control the entire group they turned the same system in a negative form of discrimination which we lived since last century.
Slightly misinformed towards the end about the varna system. Rest is good. But God was always the center of Sanaatan Dharma.
@@ankiiths3274 But, not God in the typical sense. The system in its entirety is God. Whether such intervention to start is divine is what leads to different schools of thought.
@@ankiiths3274you may want to define Sanaatan Dharma. These days a white washed version presented by those propagating Hindutva.
This Guy is like a missionary on job the whole video have much less to do with indian history and he did not know Sanskrit either. JP should not give a misleading title to the video people are going to find it out.👎
Hmmm... This whole interview reeks of confirmation bias. And he seems to have read his history from Romila Thappar. A known Marxist historian who has warped Indian history.
Just his mentioning of the Ashwamedha as the reason for India's weakness is ridiculous. Where the English performing Ashwamedha when the Vikings invaded?
No! Sometimes geopolitics is just such that you are weakened due to infighting and can't stand up to a foreign enemy.
Then the part about the bare breasted women of Travancore. That is a highly disputed story. Women being bare breast was not a taboo until Victorian morality rolled up in India. And given the tropical climate of Travancore it makes sense. There are many paintings and sculptures of Godesses as being bare breast.
At one point he says that there were no written scripts before the bible? Tamil and Sanskrit have scripts going back millennia.
The Rig Vedas were written down in 1000 years before Christ, so not sure how he could not find a written copy in 1960.
This conversation is similar to what happened with excess covid death reporting.
Western media in 2021 had projected the deaths due to covid in India as 4.3 million.
Then in 2022 the WHO repeats this propoganda and says the deaths 4.7 million.
In a nutshell what the west is saying is whatever the Hindus say, of something about hinduism is good, then the only 1/10 th is good.
If something bad has happened in India, then multiply it with a factor of 10
What impact did the Moghuls have on India. Let's hear what American historian Will Durant has to say:
The Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history ,it is a discouraging tale for it's evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex of order and freedom ,culture and peace can at any moment be overthrown by Barbarians invading from without and multiplying from within.......Will Durant ,American Historian
Ah, Will Durant said it so aptly 'Barbarians invading from without and multiplying from within' - sadly, they continue to multiply from within and without as well :(
the moghuls were an evil empire though, it killed many Eastern Europeans and middle eastern. Why do you thing the middle eastern decided to take it down.
Please do some research before commenting. The Mughals brought a remarkable mainly inclusive educated culture to India. Hindus were included in high government positions. Yes, there was bloody violence; much of it among different Islamic factions. The East India Company and later the British Government were far more violent and repressive.
@@Tiruvannamalai108 Could you elaborate on "The Mughals brought a remarkable mainly inclusive educated culture to India" ?
I am convinced that everything has come down to us from the banks of the Ganges, - astronomy, astrology, metempsychosis, etc... It is very important to note that some 2,500 years ago at the least Pythagoras went from Samos to the Ganges to learn geometry...But he would certainly not have undertaken such a strange journey had the reputation of the Brahmins' science not been long established in Europe........Francois M Voltaire, French Philosopher
After Islam, Church did most harm to great civilization of Bharat. And these vultures will not stop feeding on her.
Jordan I would suggest you to have Mr. J Sai Deepak on your podcast. His depth of knowledge about India and the influence of Christianity and Coloniality on India is profound. Of course there will be difference of opinions but it would be a great conversation to say the least.
Yes a very important conversation
He's a woke. He believes in collectivism.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 JSD's an idiot who belives collective rights should trump individual rights and also belives in moral subjectivism
He won't have the guts to speak in front of dr Peterson who'll destroy his BS within seconds.
@@MohitKumar-jf8lz who?
@@MohitKumar-jf8lz so are the missionary people
I don't agree with the indian missionary's characterisation of hindu dharma. It only reinforces the idea that the pagan religions such as hinduism are primitive in nature and need the save and grace of an abrahmic religion, A very Eurocentric idea which tries to be a universal truth.
Sure the hindu dharama had it's issues but to understand this complex pagan religion with an European abrahmic lense would be wrong. This is what the mughals and english did. Max muller initially hated this pagan religion but after studying it in depth declared indian philosophy and Hinduism to be one of the most sophisticated religions and one of the most developed philosophies, even greater than plato Or Aristotle.
PS: dr. Peterson as you Invite ben Shapiro to discuss on Judaism, mohd. Hijab on Islam I would request you to invite a hindu ( sanatan dharama) scholar to discuss hinduism.
I would enjoy this a lot as I have been intrigued by hinduism since I had indian friends as a child.
@@Lucas_Jeffrey i can suggest to you some scholars which might help you understand Hinduism
1. Swami Vivekananda - there's an 8 volume collection comprising of his speeches , essays and letters
2. Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan - he taught Eastern Religion at Oxford before being the President of India and writing writing dozens of books on history of Indian Philosophy and Religion
3. Sri Aurobindo - he was a philosopher and a poet who wrote many books and translated many Sanskrit scriptures in english .
4. Rabindranath Tagore - although not strictly a religious scholar but he delved into religion along with writing poetry , novels , was a painter , well versed in classical music and dance
Hindu scholar likw who?
@@tam_chris20 read my former comment
@@Lucas_Jeffrey Please take time to read Vishal's "The World of Gurus".
Dear Dr Peterson, like most of people who follow you, your discussions bring me a sense of understanding of many things political or religious and or just pIain truth.
But when you start this video's Tag with the word 'INDIA' while the content may mean many things, but you probably can't expect people in India to solely ignore the core religion which gave India (Hindustan/ Bharat) it's identity long before bilbe/ quran were introduced to the land.
And the discussion in this video is great in many ways with regards the guests work for the poor, and impact of bile on the land, but as I've stated, you can't alinate the core religious foundation of India by not having discussion(s) with the people who have an large understanding of Hinduism.
Your teachings make me not to judge your intentions/ motivations for this discussion, purely on one video regarding just India and Bile although your religious exploration could have started with pure discussion on India and Hinduism, and you could have carried it to later parts of the history.
If you plan to understand Hinduism and India in it's complete essence, I am sure you clearly know, a discussion with people with vast knowledge of the same is warranted. I assume you have those along your podcast pipeline.
However, if your videos related to India would be just limited to Bible/ Christianity impact on the country, this is a great video, but please consider giving a disclaimer in either video title or in the introduction, so people know what exactly to expect.
Thank you so very much!! Best wishes for your upcoming discussions!
Malgalwadi's views are not the real data --- he has made up his world
watch Jaipur dialogues for the refutation ---
The guy has lied multiple times.
India was the motherland of our race
and Sanskrit the mother of Europe's languages.
India was the mother of our philosophy,
of much of our mathematics, of the ideals embodied in
Christianity... of self-government and democracy.
In many ways, Mother India is the mother of us all.
Will Durant
@@ntskl 🤣🤣🤣🤣 north ? From where ?
@@s.photographer Russian Steppes. Read History. I am aware that many Indians believe the falsity that India is the source of all. Hogwash.
@Penlight I'm Indian and none of what you wrote is true.
@@ntskl He's a Hindu supremacist. They have their own make-believe history
The brits fought with the Marathas in the 2 Anglo maratha wars
Which was a hindu dynasty expanding over most of India almost to Afghanistan
The Mughal empire was over by the better part of the late 18th century!
This vishal is wrong in many places , he puts wrong facts everytime in every video
Then this ‘mighty’ Maratha empire lost to Ahmad Shah Abdali lol😂🤣🤣
@Bruhh Who also got their buts wiped out by the British 🤣🤣
@Navneet Gupta
Dear Nanveet, the Mughal Empire was mostly over by the BEGINNING of the 18th century. Aurangzeb dies in 1705 or something. This is the definite end of an era. After that, whichever Mughal rule was left was toothless.
@@mohammadshamail7732 Who were sent back eventually.
I am an Indian born Christian and although this man has many interesting points, he has failed to deliver a balanced view point when it comes to Hindu and Bhuddist philosophy. Abrahamic religions have indeed shaped many aspects of modern Indian society but mostly with the help of violence, rape and destruction. Please bring a Hindu or Bhuddist Philosopher next if you want to understand the real complexities of one of the worlds oldest cultural phenomenons. Pushing this narrative that Hinduism is some childish and exploitive religion to the western world is only spreading the notion that the west has some moral superiority over the east.
Well said my man.Hinduism is a way of life. Whatever god you follow don’t ever lose it. Otherwise you will lose your soul. 👍🏽
A detailed book "How The Bible Created Modern India" is coming soon on 15 August 2022.
Btw Vishal's views on Hinduism can be read in his book "The World of Gurus".
Hindutva is a reaction to this and clearly a future of India
@@thepassingpawn hindutva is cancer.
Just want to point out word Hindu and Hinduism are of Arabic origin;
Hinduism is not the original religion of India.
I wonder what your intentions are, when you bring in a person from christian missionary to talk about india and it's history. Would you bring in a nazi to talk about jewish history? This doesn't behoove you, Jordan.
False equivalence. I'm a Keralite and what he says about Kerala and erstwhile Travancore kingdom is absolutely correct. We Indians should be willing to be self critical
@@TheRishijoesanuthats false history created by your communist and these Christian missionary. Those fake stories have no facts.
I recommend you read "The India That is Bharat: Coloniality, Civilisation, Constitution" by J Sai Deepak.
A very comprehensive read that goes through the civilisational history of India and the effects of coloniality that yet lingers.
Great recommendation!
That might be inconvenient to his bible-thumping narrative.
read Vishal Mangalwadi, he is also against colonolism and highlights the effects of colonolism.
@@kranthiraj667 you're a shameless person. Stop trying to manipulate people into your anti-Hindu agenda. I didn't even have to look for one minute to find you trying to defame Hinduism in another of your comments. You shameless missionaries and Hinduphobes need to get a life and stop harassing Hindus. I don't know if you're a sub erted demoralized self hating Hindu, or some Christian missionary it doesn't really matter... I see your obviously anti-Hindu agenda. Stop spreading lies.
India is the only culture to resist the forced conversions to Abrahmic faiths and still succeed. If Jordan is willing to look at both sides, if he shows the negative influences from Bible, he'll lose most of his fanbase. I've spoken with enough westerners regarding this. With white people, the leftists will look at you like a subhuman who deserves to be saved, a Right winger looks at you like a subhuman who deserves to be exploited. That's why at the end of the day, both political sides of the Western society gets very uncomfortable with India's progress. Their leftists like Indians but not Hindus, their RW doesn't like Hindus or Indians.
Bible shaped India?
I haven’t watched the whole podcast but Peterson sir! Are you serious
I ask you. Are you even serious with that pic? Hahah
@@markyuto6820 look its an inside joke. If you know it you know it.
You adopted western institutions
that were influenced by the Bible
So obviously India to some degree
Was influenced by the Bible culturally
@@swaythegod5812 that was a good one!
@@swaythegod5812 and how much were those institutions influenced by india?
I mean jpb does yoga
Also Carl yung who's greatly influences jpb is greatly influenced by Vedas and sanatan dharma
So where does that discussion go?
I really love Jordan's lecture on Bible and other psychology lectures , but living in india I couldn't resonate with a single minute of this video
It's just pure western ignorance and moral superiority
There is a total absence of nuances and complexities of indian culture and ethos
I really love the maps of meaning lectures and genesis lectures
But at this point Jordan should maintain his audience base as wide as possible and shouldn't just focus on conservative north American politics
Also hindi is not a national language of india that statement is antithesis to cultural erhos of india , it is a very diverse country with a tradition of finding truth by one ownself
Jordan is indeed very ignorant in this episode and he only invited Vishal on his podcast because he agrees with him.
@@D3tyHuff Well spotted my friend.
India is much much divers and beyond limitation of understanding by Jordan and Mr vishal. One really has to be living in forever in india. If one is sinner by birth ,he has to leave sanatan tradition.
I mean he just thinks that western civilization is superior, which is not true today’s west is built by colonising and killing of millions of Indians and Africans. Chirstianty dosent suit for country like India. India will become powerful and rise once again by Dharmic values.
pretty surprised by how less Jordan actually knows about India. I wish he would have chosen someone better for his intro to its history and complexity. sigh sigh. I would love to talk jordan, please contact me
To all the Hindus and Indians who have commented here. I deeply and truly say to you Aap Sabko Koti Koti Pranam. Dhanyawad. Bhaiya main akele chilate chilate thak gaya inke channel par. Ye kabhi islam ko peaceful batate hain Kabho christanoty ko.
Ye sabko mis- inform kar rahein hai bahut pehle se. Jab se last baar bimaar hokar aaye hain tab se ye agenda driven ho gaye hain.
AAj main bahut prasann hun. Dhanyawad Bhaiya aur didi aap sabka.
Mai bhi yahi soch rha tha. Ise Indian right wing waalo ko bulaana chahiye taaki reality bhi pta chle
@@himanshurai2854 kya right winger bhaiya. Koi bhi baat main agar hindu apni baat rakhe to wo bhakt hai ya right winger hai. Ye log nahin bulate paisa nahin milega na.
Is video dekhne ke baad mujhe kuch questions hain. Yeh sach hai ki aap log (Hindus) widows ko zinda jalate hain? Ya yeh sach hai ki aap ke vichar se log vidhvaon ko zinda jalana accha hai? Aur choti-choti larkiyon ko marne ke bare main aap log aisa sochte hain ki yeh bhi normal hai? Kyonki main Europe se huun aur is video se main yeh ideas prapt ki...
@@liatresanos3769 it used to be an ancient practice which came into the society with the advent of the islamic invasion of India. However In the 19 century , with the collective efforts of Hindu social reformers and the Brits it was rightly abolished and has since never been practiced anywhere in India. Mind you, even at its peak it was not a Pan India phenomenon rather limited to reigons of islamic invasion.
@@hindeshrai8787 aha, so mentioning the burning of the wives in this context would be similar to pulling out the mediaeval burnings in Europe and concluding that "a true God would never want such things to happen". What about the starving little girl? Here I am more sceptical because I know there are cruel people who treat others like animals all around the world and I suppose extreme poverty and lack of education in rural areas only exacerbates that. I can understand the deep psychological impact of seeing such lack of morality because I have seen many amoral acts also and to witness crap like that leaves the person extremely disgusted with anything that is related to the perpetrators. However, to my knowledge, there is no such thing in Hindu religious teachings as women being less than men per se. I hope I am not wrong at this point. Correct me if you could show me a passage somewhere in your scriptures where it says specifically that a woman has no soul and thus can be dismissed I would appreciate.
I like JP interviews, but this conversation was a disappointment. The arguments were lacking nuance as they seemed to deliberately lack historical context. A lot of mental gymnastics and huge gaping blind spots were required to come to some of these conclusions and justifications. Bring Hindu scholars to discuss the Vedas and caste system, bring Islamic and Mughal Era historians to understand the impact of that empire and Muslims on the subcontinent aside from “ they built the Taj Mahal but didn’t build wheel barrels” and other catchy one-liners.
This conversation put a brand of recently imported ‘civilizing’ European Christianity on one side and lumped literally everyone else and every other belief together in barbaric opposition to it. As if Christendom just prior to that era wasn’t completely fragmented, perpetually at war and cruel to its proletariat, religious minorities, women and poor. As if the same Bible’s adherents haven’t shed more blood recently and historically than every other religious group in India combined. Let’s put all that aside, eh?
This was definitely NOT JPs best effort at bridge building.
Yup. Awfully ignorant chat.
That’s cause you don’t read the Whole context of the Bible….when you do you’ll understand this two gentlemen dialogue. Research for yourself and read the Bible from beginning to end….only then you’ll have knowledge…❤️😇
You are intelligent in the natural yet lack spiritual discernment.
@@nl9490 that’s just not true is it. You can reframe context all you want - but the Bible stops short of what Sanatan Dharma takes forward. You see Christ in many temples, but not the other way around - why? Because Christianity cannot afford to let go of it’s foundational axioms such as being history centric and requiring the virgin birth and resurrection of Christ, and salvation through Him.
Hindus are accepting of Christ, and more. But I tell you this; Both approaches can lead to a very happy life for whomever feels a resonance with it. Why do I say this? Because it’s fundamentally the approach of Sanatan Dharma (Hinduism)
Hugely PROPAGANDISTIC.
This EXPOSES JP as just a Protestant Christian with HINDUPHOBIC tendencies
JP should invite swami sarvapriyananda of the ramakrishna order if he wants to have a fruitful discussion on the vedanta.
Why not sadhguru ? He is very implicated vs liberals and preservation of indian culture and many many things.
@@l-esprit_de_l-ouest he is good but he's not well versed in hindu scriptures
@@chaitanyabharadwaj5411 i know but like jp he is fighting hard vs leftists.
So it migth be interesting .
@@l-esprit_de_l-ouest he's well spoken, but not well read. And mixing science and religion is dangerous.
@@lookintoit4537 yeah jp thinks everything good that we know is because of Bible 😂
Did this guy skip over Vedas and Upanishads just like that! Man, I wish Jordan himself reads Bhagwad Gita, the Essence of Vedas, and see the deepest truths himself.
he won't be able to see i'm afraid because his conditions doesn't seem right. he has a lot of mental turmoil on the back of his mind. and he has already spent half his life studying and understanding and explaining the Bible which has taken deep roots in his mind. which is good but that acts as an restraint because when you are too much attached or filled with something it becomes difficult for you to get roots in new things and learn them the way you did first time. It would be really great if he could though.
@@Zeus-uq3wh nature and is sick sense of humour! hahaha. the truth is never staying at the same place, if bhagwad gita is expressing itself like you are then id rather read about the teletubbies. what i like about peterson is that he has an opposing view and you got something to learn there. you speak like you already know it, maybe you should do like peterson and learn while you talk also. even people who are christians does not understand the bible. do you even know what the bible really means by virgin? do you even know what the bible means by bread and so on. i think 99% of the people gets the virgin thing part wrong xD
The Vedas',...what a waste of time.
Buddhism was born out of the inability of Hinduism, Advaita, etc., to understand reality. Siddhartha exhausted everything that Hinduism, Advaita offered and did not find the threshold of Bodhicitta.
To help communicate a way out of Samsara to Reality, it is said that Sakyamuni Buddha designed the first 'Wheel of Life' for the simple-minded people of that era.
The Buddhist Wheel or Loop of Cyclic illusory Existence is said to have Six Realms,...the Highest Level of which is the Brahman/God Realm.
What deepest truth? That everybody is assigned a caste at birth and that Arjuna should murder his possible unarmed cousins in the war because it was his caste duty? Reincarnation trivializes both life and death and karma trivializes suffering. This worldview has brought untold oppression and suffering to millions of people in the Indian subcontinent for a millenia.
@@NameforYouT yes you can apply that to every system we have today. its strange we cant accept that we are not equals and embrace being different also, not in a oppressed way. it depends on who defines equal, its like why dont like that people are not the same as you, then you can truly learn something new.
I would highly recommend Swami Sarvapriyananda on your show. He is well versed in Indian philosophies, especially advaita vedanta (non duality) and some of the western philosophies too🙏
Yeah that is a beauty
Basically nonsensical unlike the exalted truth of the Bible
@@supersmart671 lol Bible only hs claims
Advaita vedanta (non duality) is meaningless drivel compared to the real and tangible praise of Godly devotion
@@TheMLMGold wt is so spl in God?
His last words "Thank you for what you're doing." sums it up. JP thank you for this enlightening seminar. My father, who is a white American man in his 90's had me late in life. he turned his back on the Jesus he was introduced to as a child and found inner peace in the Upanishads (sp?) and Ramakrishna, Vidantism and I grew up going to the Vidanta temple in NYC ..me-a red headed, blue eyed, white little girl. As I grew I tried to understand 1) what Vidantism was and 2) why my father revered it so much. But in the end I couldn't find my answers. It seemed to negate the feminine, which fit well with what I knew about my father. He hated his mother, no one in the family knows why. Something terrible must have happened but he will take it to the grave with him I suppose. When I found Jesus all the questions about life were answered in an instant; and it was then that I felt sick that my father (and my brother as an extension) will never find the peace of Christ. I've heard my whole life that the goal is to reach nirvana, and to do so you must empty your mind. ????Your guest validated my feelings about this practice....it doesn't give Truth to the human conscience who is searching for it. Lack of Truth is at the heart of our societal problems at the moment. I liked what you said about how all the cultures of the Enlightenment were not atheists until the French Enlightenment which brought us through erudite education this current Reign of Terror called Postmodernism that we are all suffering through. I so so so enjoyed this guest and your conversation with him. I think I can safely say my experience as a Caucasian red haired, blue-eyed girl being raised in a Ramakrishna Temple is a unique niche from which to speak, and one that make this conversation possibly more personal for me than many others. Thanks again!
"It seemed to negate the feminine," this absurd coming from a believer in an Abrahamic religion, which are extremely patriarchal totalitarian "1 True God" (who's always male btw) cults that believe the world is only thousands of years old (unlike Sanatana Dharma/"Hinduism" which asserts correctly that the world is BILLIONS of years old, as corroborated by Modern Western Science. You do realize that unlike the Bible & Quran, the Vedas were written by WOMEN along with men. Everything this self-hating Indian human scapegoat sacrifice believer said about India & Dharma is a lie or at best a gross misconception.
@Morgan, you must be mistaken, Hinduism never disregards the feminine, but accepts it in all its glory along with the masculine, which together form the fabric of life.
You have all the right to form your own conclusions and tread your spiritual path to harmony, to not follow dogmatic beliefs.
This is advocated many times in Hinduism.
@Darren It is only when we empty the mind can we experience the world as it is, only this way can you shift the seat of consciousness from the ego, devoid of judgements and unfounded beliefs.
when the ego disappears, you see that you are one with all around you, i.e. you experience the cosmic consciousness or God called "Brahmam" in hinduism.
And the kundalini is a form of energy that is described as rising through the spine activating the seven chakras which can be seen as points where the organ function is vital to a fully balanced, healthy and peaceful mind. The spine path vaguely represents a serpent, hence the misnomer. Please don't associate it with an expernal serpent spirit. It is something that is already within you. You just work on activating it to become a healthier person.
@@illusionistextraordinaire87802 Well elaborated👍Namaskaram!🙏
@Morgan B your lies here won't work🙏
I am an Indian who just started following Dr Peterson and I find his lectures very enlightening, but this one was a huge disappointment. It would better for Dr Peterson to get Indian intellectuals like Rajiv Malhotra or Abhijit Iyer Mitra or J Sai Deepak or Aabhas Mahaldiyar to speak about India and Indian philosophy and spiritualism. Bible has NOT shaped our country like the way he says, it is our Sanatana Philosophies (like the Gita, Upanishads, Purana, Veda, Mahabharata, Ramayana, Jainism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Charvaka, Vivekananda,etc) that has shaped our country. Peterson also really needs to know the dark side of missionaries in India.
Indian philosophy is the most ancient and one of the most revered philosophies across the world. India is the longest standing classical civilization which has not crumbled due to invasions and colonialism. Majority of the ordinary Indians will not accept what his guest said because we know the basis of our civilization. Christianity came to India only around 500 years ago, and while it has been here it has focused more on degrading hindu practices as pagan and proselytisation through rice bag conversion. They have also played an effective role in mistranslating and misinterpreting our philosophies, as they knew that Santana Dharma could posses to be a huge threat to Christianity. This has affected the ability of many ordinary Indians to truly understand our shastras till date which has produced half informed people like Mr Vishal Mangalwadi.He also needs to understand the difference between Jaati and Varna, how they are not the same and what truly led to such discriminatory practices in India and the factors that influenced it. Vishal Mangalwadi does not seem well versed with Hindu philosophy and seems to be driven by missionary ideology.
So a humble request to Dr Peterson to get such intellectuals as mentioned above to his podcast. It would be better if he himself read the Bhagavad Gita and understood how Varna and Karma and thinking of Lord Krishna worked. I would love to hear him talk about the psychological and philosophical aspects of the Gita, Mahabharata, Mimansa and the Ramayana in his upcoming podcasts.
Peace ☮️🙏🇮🇳🌸
I feel you dr Jordan Peterson is blatantly wrong in this one
He won’t. His whole experience and knowledge would be at stake if he invites or strikes a discussion with Rajiv Malhotra Ji or Abhijit Chavda.
So you speak for the majority of India? Ok got it. And this topic was about the Christian influence in India, that's the topic. Are you claiming Christianity had no influence there? Nobody said all of India has been shaped completely by Jesus and nobody else. That is your broken telephone interpretation.
@@roberjohnsmith Christianity does have influence on India, but not like the way he is saying. We had a highly developed and revered gurukula system of education that focussed on the all round development of a child, the Brits came and replaced it with their missionary system which was meant to churn out clerks. This put our education system behind by 200 years and we are still struggling to make our way through it. Brits had some positive influences like giving us the Westminster system of governance or Railways, but I don't think you need Christianity for that.
I encourage you to read about Indian colonial history and see for yourself. Christianity did not spread so massively because of the love of Jesus and the Gospels , it was mainly due to the power of the sword. Even Buddhism and Jainism were religions based on peace and love, why didn't they spread like Christianity or Islam ? Even Indian Christians will agree that Christian influence has mostly been negative, they too recognise it's problems as they were all Hindus before converting. It has not done anything to reform the caste system, it has only made it worst. The Brits could have made laws to reduce the tensions between Brahmins and Shudras, but what they did was escalate the tensions. Infact, hindu rulers like Wodeyars were more effectively able to control caste discrimination and discrimination against women in their kingdom of Mysore. How was that possible ? Read about the Church's history and colonial rule in India, you will only find out whether the influence news positive or negative.
Indian philosophy has only recently made it to the west, where it may find new life.
Bible didn't play any role in shaping my country. Maybe our Vedas and mysticism played a role in shaping western religions.
Yes we had caste systems but it was not how it all started. The society got messed up with Islamic and European invasions.
Man after all he is West christian nationalists
This is what called arrogance.
Arrogance leads to destruction.
Shameful saying like this shameful
Man your caste system is ancient, wtf are you talking about
I think the bible is the handbook of the liars.
What is the book of Truth??
Christian missionaries tried to convert poor sections of Indian society by using fault lines since 1500s, but they never got much success other than Malabar region and North East India.
The most ironic part about all of this is that : Christian missionaries claim to free them from "evil caste" chains but even after 10 generations of conversation, they never stopped using caste identity. Dalits Christian is still a thing.
@@davidcole1475 India will be fully converted only and only when it's Kaliyuga, the age of darkness, when we will stop living in Truth entirely. The sad thing is, we're indeed in this dark age currently, albeit just in the golden years of it where not all Truth is lost yet! If this were a golden age then the doctrine of Dharma would've prevailed.
@@davidcole1475 But which heaven exactly? There are seven heavens in total. Which one are you talking about exactly when you say heaven? Do you mean the highest one, where the God himself dwells? Then you're talking about Brahmaloka where the creator of this world, Brahma, dwells. But we don't worship that god here. Ask us why.
@@davidcole1475 lmao. I'm literally stating what is truth. Unlike you, I've not based my whole worldview on just one single book but rather studied each and every religion after I realised that what we call today as Christianity is based upon lies and manipulation. I was a Christian, dude! A devote, god fearing Christian. After my awakening I realised that Christianity is not actually based upon Truth. This realisation also made me look into gnosticism and all the dots started to connect, it all started to make sense. You'll be awakened too, IF you're meant to and search for the Truth hard enough.
@@davidcole1475 Says who? Who has accepted the lies of the church and the Bible and never bothered to search for the Truth himself? Yeah right
@@davidcole1475 That's exactly what I'm talking about. I've read what he preached and how he lived, that's where my views are coming from! Don't read the Indian scriptures if you think that's satanic, fine? But atleast read the gnostic scriptures. Just go beyond your modern Bible is all I'm saying. Explore more.
While it is true that the west had many positive influences on shaping Indian society, something lost in the very one dimensional anti-colonial perspective that pervades modern culture, I don’t feel this guest provided exactly the most fair, balanced and nuanced perspective of Hindu ideas and Indian history in general. When he reduced the vedas to essentially being a Harry Potter spell book that became apparent to me.
It’s of course difficult to discuss Hinduism because it’s not a centralized religion stemming from one single authority, so traditions vary tremendously, place to place, but reducing it to just a collection of some of the worst practices in certain places would be like reducing Christianity down to sex abuse of minors because of the Catholic Church.
If Hindu culture simply promoted nothing but tyrannical rule of the upper castes with no care for the poor or suffering, as he essentially claims, there’s no way in which ancient Indian kingdoms could have ever grown or prospered, since by logic that JBP rightfully states when challenging the ideas of postmodern types, tyrannical systems are often overthrown and collapse from the growing rage of the out group.
It’s worth noting that the first of India’s golden ages, where many advancements to science, math and medicine occurred, happened prior to the introduction of any Abrahamic religion into the subcontinent, something that challenges the unidimensional idea of Hinduism and pre Christian India the guest presents.
I would personally be excited to see JBP bring on a guest speaking from a Hindu perspective, whether scholarly or religious to provide another view, in much the same way he has been exploring and building bridges with the Islamic world. Considering Hinduism is the largest non Abraham tradition that roughly 1/7 of the world practices at the 3rd most populous religion, it would be worthwhile to understand this tradition, the only polytheistic one of scale that has survived, and for around 5000 years at that.
Just as the west has influenced India and the east in general, so has the east influenced the west and I think there is much to be gained from a more holistic dialogue.
Thanks for the content Mr Peterson.
Isn't the term "Hindu" also a western heuristic used to condense thousands of separate practices?
@@benjaminlquinlan8702 Its a greek derivative of the river Indus, as in " those guys who live over past the Indus river" ( greek words like 'h'onour and 'h'our kept their silent H, but Persian utility of the term put a hard H on hindu )... on par with grouping Jews, Muslims and Christians as "Jordanists"
@@benjaminlquinlan8702 you are correct. When the British were conducting a census of India under the category of religion. Muslim people would say Islam, Christians would write Christians, but the "Hindus" would write whatever their caste was. So the frustrated British clubbed all those into one religion they called Hinduism
Both JBP and this fellow has also made the fundamental mistake of conflating the influences of west and western ideas as influences of Christianity specially of Christian missionary
@@benjaminlquinlan8702 It is true. Hinduism is just a conglomerate of thousands of different practices of millions of people from hundreds of different places in India. Hindu is only a term of convenience.
I enjoy his talks but when it comes to India and its culture, JP is a big disappointment.
Intellectual like him, when discuss things without knowledge/research is like someone is talking about life on Pluto without seeing it or knowing it.
To understand religion and culture of India, he has to get out of Abrahmic tradition of following one book, a monotheistic tradition and stop mapping India with the same template. Knowing the Vedas, some popular terms like caste system, meditation and yoga doesn't mean knowing India or its culture.
(Unless it is a paid propaganda just like million others are).
Have you read the Bible?
Agreed.
Well he is pretty old to be studying Vedas now. Theres so much to learn and process
do you think the same people who lived there 1000 or 2000 years ago and all the way back to the bronze age is the same people who live there today. dont you think they would be a very small minority by now? its very sad to see such a beautiful place on earth destroyed by money, greed and so on wich has nothing to do with culture at all. do we know that the caste system isnt some perversion of the real deal ? from what i see, is that the people in power only cares about everything else than the culture of their land. they take that away from people so they can take that to their own benefit and make $$$
Absolutely 🙌
I saw a video made by JP about how one should try to find out about one's natural tendency to decide on career.
Varna system was the tool in ancient times to identify this tendency very early.
It is not easy to understand Hinduism from a narrow perspective.
Thoroughly disappointed with JP's understanding of Hinduism.
Expected better.
Look into Vic Dicara's videos to understand what Hinduism is all about
Varna system is not what you claim it to be at all.
Why lie?
Like Islam, you guys have Taqqiya too?
@@MusicMan-em4fn it is like that only . You will understand it slowly. What is the hurry? There are several lifetimes to see.
@@mahalakshmir2404
There you go again.
Telling me stuff as if you KNOW they are true when you have NO WAY of knowing if they are true.
Like i said..pompous, arrogant culture
@@MusicMan-em4fn ironic that you are calling Hindus arrogant and pompous for knowing the truth while the speaker here says that he didn't read Hindu scriptures because they couldn't give him truth and the Bible is the only truth.
@@_liebevoll_4322
Hindu scriptures didn't give him the truth cuz he read and did not find it there.
Logic 😄
Also..
YOU have not read those scriptures either. 🤣
Like a typical Hindu.
The man took up the lowest common denominator of a culture and normalised it as if the only reality. This is as if picking up medival ills of christianity, and normalising it as the only essence of christianity. You both made out a strawman out of hinduism.
The host(whom I do admire) didn't even know about muslim empires in India. A bit of genuine home work and honesty might help for a better discussion, with regards to India, rather than preconcieved notion and anti pagan bias.
Medieval Christianity was held in high esteem as a time of great virtue by Renaissance great thinker Erasmus, a leading Humanist.
“I saw monarchy without tyranny, aristocracy without factions, democracy without tumult, wealth without luxury,” Erasmus later wrote, idealizing the past. “Would that it had been your lot, divine Plato, to come upon such a republic.” Perhaps most important, medieval man believed that he knew his place in the Economy of Grace, in God’s universe.
@@johnofroncesvalles4255 you forgot mentioning Catholic Church sexual abuses, witch-burning, treatment of homosexuals, inquisition, torture and persecution of Jews and pagans etc. etc.
I Agree, Shivang !
I don't agree. You have reduced a 1:45 hour interview, where he did not just glorify the Bible's contribution but also spoke about colonialism's ills at length, clearly pointing out that it was not one culture that was better than another, rather it was a meeting of two very worldviews, into some soundbites. One would think that one worldview having a definite advantage of supposedly having power on it's side, the reality is more nuanced, early missionaries were considered troublemakers and kept out by the British, simply because they called a spade a spade, with regards to the east india company's early corruption as well as the ills present in Indian society then(the company had no interest in its early days in good governance or reform, India was a means to make money). India is very much living with a Hindu worldview at present. So the colonial project was definitely a failure, from that perspective. But there were some positives to the whole exercise and the speakers point was to shed a light on those positives. In today's shrill chest thumping narrative of Indian preeminence, a bit of humility is what he is calling for. I don't sense any triumphalism in it. Your review needs to be more even-handed.
@@AD-gu6sr 1.I am a Hindu, and I think there is nothing inherently wrong with having a Hindu worldview, as there isn't anything wrong with a christian worldview.
2.Good that you are taking about even handedness. I would expect the same, since you painted a very rosy picture of early missionaries.
About the early missionaries, their entry was facilitated thorough law(Read Charter Act of 1813) and yes early missionaries were trouble makers, but, for the Indian society. Most tribal revolts has one common cause i.e proselytizing activities by missionaries.Of course they did a few good things as well, but mostly their benovelence was transactional. It was at the cost of dignity of indigenous faiths.
3. The speaker isn't asking for any kind of humility. Infact his disscussion on hinduism has been consciously ignorant( E.g the doctrinne of karma) . The bottomline of his message was to project hinduism as a primitive religion that requires gracious saving by christianity.
As a Christian living in India and ardent fan of Jordan Peterson, this is such a pleasant surprise.
Oh! Are you converted?
@@deepika2644 so? You Hindu are so much rude to people. That's why people in India don't like Hindusm
Let's go NE! I mean I thought I was the only NE fan of Peterson. Good to know!🤗
The people here should know one more thing that when Jesus was being crucified, it is a common belief that Jesus dies on cross but it's a wrong, rather he came to India in Srinagar, state of Jammu and kashmir and some says till the age of 125 or more than 50 years. His shrine is there, numerous indian author has written on him and about his grave in India, that's why westerners didn't find his grave because they were digging in wrong place.
No body speak Hebrew in India, but words are written in Hebrew on his grave.
🙏🙏🙏
Like i va hmu hnem ve 😁
You should've invited a Hindu to this discussion. This guy is a Christian with an anti hindu bias, obviously he would have a western bias. Kinda disappointed.
This is absurd. I respect you, but I will tell you this discussion was biased and filled with many misleading points. Mr Peterson, if you had to discus matters related to India or Hinduism and not just Bible, then you should have invited someone with that knowledge - not a Christian philosopher - or you could have also invited both, a Hindu philosopher and a Christian. There are many dharmic intellectuals who can destroy points made in this video one by one, and then Mr Peterson you will be the one left embarrassed by so many wrong claims in this video. To name few such dharmic intellectuals are Rajiv Malhotra, J Sai Deepak or Dr David Frawley. Kindly invite them or someone of their caliber to avoid such blunder of false claims made by the Christian philosopher in this video.
Gora sahab bas apni kahani sunage. Ye hui koi baat. Itne dino se akele chilate chilate thak gaya. Dil khush kar diye yaar aap.
Can u name a specific point that was false and cite the source? Even then, aren’t there always scholars that will have different perspectives?
Malhotra is spinning out lies...
Mr. JORDON , YOU HAD A LOT OF REAPECT IN INDIA... BUT BRINGING THIS NO BODY HAS LOST A LOT OF RESPECT TODAY
Mangalwadi is a pseudo historian. His points on sati and on caste system is reminiscent of the colonial discourse which is a white mand burden to civilise the barbarians.
You can read the book by Dr Meenakshi jain "sati evangelicals Baptist missionary and the changing colonial discourse"
Chapter 3 is early British application of Indian civilization which is a refute against the generalising argument as presented by mangalwadi.
The book by Dr Meenakshi jain explains how these same arguments between JP and mangalwadi were made to legitimise colonial action and erode the native civilization
The “civility
“of Amritsar …or
Maybe the “ civility” of asking villagers to identify the real “God” by comparing whether the wooden cross or the marble murti statue would float in the river? Perhaps the partitions mathematics that Cambridge professors learned from Ramanujan and his dreams of Devi Mata was just them assuaging the savage of previously known truths they had in their pocket squares the whole time?
the western saviourism
Was both uninvited, unnecessary and wholly illegitimate. It’s why some are deemed immigrants while others are expats; why some are communities while others are tribes.
I feel Sorry for Vishal more than anything..devastatingly ill informed.
Don't understand why Vishal said the Vedic teachings won't lead to truth, the 6 darshans which comprises the "Hinduism" religion is a way to the truth. Darshan literally means "sight", which fits perfectly to the example he gave of the elephant. But it is true that the truth is not something that you will arrive at by reading the scriptures, they can only lead you to it like a map, you have to actually take the journey.
It's all Missionary shit bro
@@rajeshwarraoendaram3443 correct Jordan Peterson is a judeo christian Apologist
@@jatre5938 Rightly stated by Sadhguru, the problem isn't religion per se. But the ego that comes with knowing that only your religion is the truth and you're going to heaven while everyone else following other religions are bound to go to hell.
@@jatre5938 do I sense sarcasm?
@@siddhantsingh5962 yes indeed only few shall reach heaven thus you must know that there in no alternative for TRUTH therefore there's only one way ticket.
Never heard so much misinformation, and ignorance in a single video ever. And i am only a common citizen of india. An expert will destroy this piece by piece.
Ricebag cooking some nice khichdi, garnishing it with half-truths and missionary/colonial propaganda, and Peterson enjoying the dish and serving it to his pre-dominantly Christian-Right base as well. Lmao.
@@michaelaratnam6517 Again, that's missionary propaganda.
India had the highest GDP in the entire world for much of all history before 17th century. Those goods & services were surely not being manufactured & exported by Brahmins or Kshatriyas.
Get the drift.
@@michaelaratnam6517 Or maybe you are too dense to understand that the GDP was high till the time the Colonizers had not landed with their missionaries to loot the nation for 300yrs and turn the richest civilization in the world into the world's poorest, with manmade famines that killed millions - Yet, when the Colonizers left with their missionaries, more than 90% of people still retained their indigenous faith and culture.
Cope. 😌
@@michaelaratnam6517 Conversely, you should also ask how come churches are empty and majority of the "Christians" in rich, christian west are leaving Christianity. Lol.
@@saumitrashikhar Hanuman and Ganesh are animals, not gods. And Rama, if he was a real, was a horribly immoral and violent just like prophet Muhammad.
Can't use logic, facts or reason. Nor can you people have a respectable moral or theological discussion. Why would anyone take you seriously? This space is for those who are seeking the truth. Not for people with the maturity of a 9 year old.
Dr Peterson I highly recommend you to have conversation with J Sai Deepak. He is genuine person who can enlightened you about Hinduism. You previously misrepresented Ma Kali but thought I was wrong. But I am thinking you do not want to know about polytheism as much as you learn about monotheism. Please bring some good guests. In case of Russia Ukraine crisis also I believe you didn't bring the guest who can represent the side of Russia. I know I lack in terms of knowledge to you but it seems that my voice is not represented.
Your voice represents you. Perhaps you go backwards, with this comment you’ve made. If you feel unheard, that’s one thing. If you feel like your view is not be represented properly, that’s another.
If you feel unheard, this might be the correct format. However if you feel underrepresented, then wouldn’t your job be to get better at speaking it, and speak it yourself? What responsibility does he have to represent your voice?
Well he has none. Unless it becomes necessary to what he’s doing. It probably isn’t now.
So then if you feel overlooked, perhaps you can fix some things about yourself. And you can.
Grammar for one, might help. And perhaps make it to an event he’s attending. Email him if you think it’s important. The man has a million people watching him.
What are you doing that makes it so important for you to be noticed by him? To be heard by him?
Answer those well, and you will have just begun your path to competence, and will have your optimal means of being heard. By improving your logic, it’s representation, and starting to justify your conviction that others should hear it. Then you bash it against other truths and see who wins.
Do that and you’ll be someone like Peterson. And you won’t need his voice. You’ll have yours, and others like yours.
@@chickenmonger123 Thank you
He won't talk about lower cast system.
@@sauravcyrus1935 I know but like other religions are taken in this podcasts like no one talked about Muslims and jihad christians and racism. Hinduism should have chance to present itself like everyone else. It is then up to Jordan Peterson to ask about cast issue and sati issue.
He is just another hate filled hindutva guy. He uses big words makes you think that he is an intellectual. But all he is trying to do is portray hinduism as some form of great thing when in reality it is regressive Philosophy which is not compatible with the modern world or else India would have been number 1 and Indians wouldn't try so hard to migrate to western Christian nations.
Sorry Jordan but if you really want to learn about Christianity's effect on India you need to see it from the Non-Christian side as well.
Bring Abhijit Chavda
Ah an indian nationalist...
We already know everything you could say on the topic
@@TheReaper569 I am an Indian nationalist. There's nothing wrong with that.
What I have to say is that India has become worse off since Islam and Christianity came here.
@@globalnationalismyoutube or how about this?
İndia became far worse than its ancient origins therefore fell to the influence of rising powers like islam and the west?
İ also dont think indian women still need to be topless when prime minister arrives.
So what became worse exactly.
@@TheReaper569 When Islam came millions of Hindus were killed.
The Christians also killed millions of Hindus when they invaded and colonised us.
India would have been better off if these invasions never happened.
From @48:56 to 51:01
1. The kings exploited the peasants, put that wealth as Gold, Silver & Diamonds inside temples,
2. So when an Invader attacks the Kingdom, why should an untouchable defend the kingdom.
3. This is what is happening in India today, everyday (i.e 2022)
4. The lower caste people who are trying to recover their dignity, because the Hindu religious system has made me lower than animals
5. For those who want to convert to christianity, there is persecution happening everyday in India today
6. Mr. Jordan Peterson then goes onto make statement that Hindu Caste system is so damming in the Biblical perspective and the Hindu Karma doctrine was a means to justify their situation
7. Karma justifies the suffering and any help done to elevate their suffering would be counter-productive
8. Vishal Mangalwadi:- it is even more bad and then goes on to justify the bible
Statement 3 is for the present and rest all are of the past.
Jordan Peterson :- All the statements do not sound to you as the similar case of the Kulaks, wherin a Lenin/Stalin needed to destroy the Bourgeoisie.
You talk at length about the Kulaks and Alexander Solzhenitsyn.
Counter for Statement No 3:-
Lavanya (17), a Class 12 student of Sacred Hearts Higher Secondary School in Thanjavur district, had died by suicide in January due to the torture she suffered from two nuns of the school who pressurised her to convert to Christianity.
She was made to drink pesticide and was forced to clean the toilets.
And there are many more cases, if the Media talks about it the people like Vishal Mangalwadi get offended and make such statements.
People like Vishal Mangalwadi are there everywhere who will only vitiate the environment, but you let your bias continue
@1:25:36 onwards :-
9. Vishal Mangalwadi:- A Stone age tribe cannot be taught science or business law
10. Jordan Peterson:- Indirectly asks isn't it the responsibility of the western civilization to civilise these stone age people.
@1:26:18:- the smug faces of both these individuals is a sight to behold
The statements 9 & 10 are in direct contradiction with statement 1,
A civilisation which had the means to build temples, generate wealth in the form of gold, silver diamonds then only a person like Vishal Mangalwadi & JP can behave like a colonialist to justify statements 9 & 10
these are just 2 issues, there are several other claims made by both. JP has brought a Crypto Christian to vomit his hatred about all things relating to Hinduism
Not trying to say that caste discrimination or oppression does not exist, but for JP to be silent at statement no 3 is a huge disappointment.
Maybe JP should have discussion with Meenakshi jain, Rajiv Malhotra or J Sai Deepak, but i highly doubt that would happen based on his behaviour as described in statements 9 & 10
49:00 , comparing discrimation with genocide ? we should also talk about crusades , Spanish inquistion , jews persecution , persecution of pagans , Goa inquisition , slavery done by christian churches , genocide of native Americans ,
From @48:56 to 51:01
1. The kings exploited the peasants, put that wealth as Gold, Silver & Diamonds inside temples,
2. So when an Invader attacks the Kingdom, why should an untouchable defend the kingdom.
3. This is what is happening in India today, everyday (i.e 2022)
4. The lower caste people who are trying to recover their dignity, because the Hindu religious system has made me lower than animals
5. For those who want to convert to christianity, there is persecution happening everyday in India today
6. Mr. Jordan Peterson then goes onto make statement that Hindu Caste system is so damming in the Biblical perspective and the Hindu Karma doctrine was a means to justify their situation
7. Karma justifies the suffering and any help done to elevate their suffering would be counter-productive
8. Vishal Mangalwadi:- it is even more bad and then goes on to justify the bible
Statement 3 is for the present and rest all are of the past.
Jordan Peterson :- All the statements do not sound to you as the similar case of the Kulaks, wherin a Lenin/Stalin needed to destroy the Bourgeoisie.
You talk at length about the Kulaks and Alexander Solzhenitsyn.
Counter for Statement No 3:-
Lavanya (17), a Class 12 student of Sacred Hearts Higher Secondary School in Thanjavur district, had died by suicide in January due to the torture she suffered from two nuns of the school who pressurised her to convert to Christianity.
She was made to drink pesticide and was forced to clean the toilets.
And there are many more cases, if the Media talks about it the people like Vishal Mangalwadi get offended and make such statements.
People like Vishal Mangalwadi are there everywhere who will only vitiate the environment, but you let your bias continue
@1:25:36 onwards :-
9. Vishal Mangalwadi:- A Stone age tribe cannot be taught science or business law
10. Jordan Peterson:- Indirectly asks isn't it the responsibility of the western civilization to civilise these stone age people.
@1:26:18:- the smug faces of both these individuals is a sight to behold
The statements 9 & 10 are in direct contradiction with statement 1,
A civilisation which had the means to build temples, generate wealth in the form of gold, silver diamonds then only a person like Vishal Mangalwadi & JP can behave like a colonialist to justify statements 9 & 10
these are just 2 issues, there are several other claims made by both. JP has brought a Crypto Christian to vomit his hatred about all things relating to Hinduism
Not trying to say that caste discrimination or oppression does not exist, but for JP to be silent at statement no 3 is a huge disappointment.
Maybe JP should have discussion with Meenakshi jain, Rajiv Malhotra or J Sai Deepak, but i highly doubt that would happen based on his behaviour as described in statements 9 & 10
@@sickular_propoganda PERIOD.
@@sickular_propoganda
JP is a Christian apologist
Let’s talk Black people catching Black People to sell them firstly to arabs for 1000 years and then sold them to europeans.
Let’s talk to who did abolished slavery and who were unhappy about it.
I had a lot of respect for JP, but this one episode has dented my image of him. Redefining India through the Christian lens has been attempted over and over by countless people since time immemorial. If you want to have a serious conversation about Hinduism and the history of it and India, bring on someone who doesn't have an extreme Christian and western bias at the very least. Bring someone who has actually studied Indian scripture (Vedas, Upanishads, Puranas, etc) in its original Sanskrit and has done comparitive studies with other religions like Sarvapriyananda.
mate he's had several muslims on his channel, can't you just wait till he goes upon the other religions?
BTW I am a so called "lower caste" according to Indian constitution and let me say I enjoy my rights 🙂, I am a staunch Hindu , and Hindus have Varna which depends on your job and qualities , caste word was derived from Portuguese word "Casta" , so JP you better educate yourself first.
I am proud to be a Pagan, Heathen, kaffir , which your abrahamic cult have wiped out millions like us for "Jeebus" 😁 . we don't need lectures from Mlechhas 🤡 like you whose cult destroyed Sanatan culture and temples.
What part do you have issue with ?? It’s a long video
BTW I am a so called "lower caste" according to Indian constitution and let me say I enjoy my rights 🙂, I am a staunch Hindu , and Hindus have Varna which depends on your job and qualities , caste word was derived from Portuguese word "Casta" , so educate yourself first. I am proud to be a Pagan, Heathen, we don't need lectures from Mlechhas like you whose cult destroyed Sanatan culture and temples.
@@alienjay7703 the entire part where this evangelist masquerading as a professor tries desperately to portray how the "Bible" Shaped India and made it a modern nation, gave it values of equality and sovereignty 🤡🤡. Jp is clearly a western chauvinist.
Please bring J Saideepak on your podcast.
This will be one of the most epic collaborations for Indian audience.
Vo kyun bulayega. Uska gospel truth wali cheez khatre me aa jayegi. Missionaries se bada bhagwan koi thodi hain jamuna Peterson ke hisaab se.
@@singhnaveen5694 😂😂😂 actually I thought that for a while considering the content of the video like sati, female foeticide. India aur Hinduism ko defame karna inke jeevan ka maksad hai bc 🤣
J Saideepak would destroy this bullshittery left and right 🤣🤣✌️
@@singhnaveen5694 nahi aygi ..chacha..we don't cry like hum khatre me hai so chill ✌️
@@Ankita-vr8ridon't worry to respond me. I know what to take seriously and what not. To madam aap chill maaro 😂
@@singhnaveen5694 we are chilling only 😎 by the way read rajtarangni by kalhana..he was one of the ancient historican..though i guess you haven't heard about him...
This person is a true victim of Colonial Discourse. The distorted narratives of late medieval Christian missionaries have been 'internalized' by this person as 'true'; demonizing the Hindu way of life. A more honest understanding of Hindu way of life would 'reveal' a better comparative account of the two religions. His knowledge of Indian history, to make an understatement, is very poor indeed.
and Prof Peerson is poorer than his clown in his knowledge about Bharat
@@eternalthoughts-wu5lo he shall not engage in things he doesn't have a clue on.
Please interview Abhijit Chavada, Indian historian.
Jio mere sher ye baat. Ye Gora sahab apni kahani chodte hi nahin.
@@ankiiths3274 Translate bro
@@r.ssumedh7626 he meant that The white man (Jordan) wants to put his own narrative.
That would potray real indian history and real impact of British raj on india .
Indian mythologian.... 🤣 all are cooked up stories. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Dear Dr Peterson, Mr Mangalwadi's views on Indic faiths is incomplete.
*Thanks for watching send a direct*
*message right away I will love to hear your*
*thoughts on it and for more enlightenment👆❤️*
No conversation on Indic faiths will be complete.
Theory of karma is the butchered by this gentleman very clearly
Time stamp
@@Aman-td9nl in the description, actually. welcome to a channel that cares about things like that. you know, actually trying.
Your statement makes no grammatical sense. What are you trying to say?
Karma basically means causes and consequences.
The superstitious part exist in all religions at a low resolution interpretation.
Eveyones should read guenon , his views about differents degrees of resolution in the religious content are significants.
Maybe so, but he covered that part where the poor and destitute should remain so... So that they can work out their karma!! Come on man!
I have read "The Book that Made Your World" and highly recommend it to anyone with an interest in history or different cultures. Amazing humble man! I am not sure he knows the significance of his work!
that book and it's author's entire life mission is to convert everyone into Cryinsanity.. that's why the book and his life is a joke.. better to ignore
For the first time I've been more interested in what the guest had to say than what JP had to say. This conversation has blown my mind.
Because you like what you want to hear
But there is some mistake Christianity is not new to India when compared to Europe Christianity first came to India in AD 52 through St Thomas the disciple of Christ so Christ is known to south India in Kerala at the same time it was know to Europe and America
Ever realised the west never acknowledges the maratha empire
Why is Maratha important? Hinduism predates Maratha right?
Yea but it's just important cuz history is Important the main transfer of power happened between Sikhs and birtish and marathas and British.
I know this is off topic and not aimed at you, but don't you find the whole eastern/western thing strange. Italy, Austria and half of Europe, australia, new Zealand, parts of Norway and japan are all in the Eastern hemisphere whilst venuzwaila, Paraguay, Cambodia with half of africa are all in the west.
No when they say west, it's referred to the western civilization. Which jp would say is judeo-christian civilization. which includes the several Latin American counties that are Christian
The same civilization that colonized India and the world. Including places in Africa. Congo was Belgian kings personal play ground
Mangalwadi mentions Charles Grant and William Wilberforce in this talk.
Below is the extract from Sri meenakshi jain's book sati
"Thus we trust, it has been envinced.... The moral character and condition of the natives is extremely depraved and the state of society is wretched. The evils have been shewn to lie beyond... however good they (hindoos) have been traced to their civil and religious institutions, they(hindoos) have been proved to inhere in general spirit and many positive enactments of law and more powerfully still in the false corrupt impure extravagant and ridiculous principles of their religious...a remedy has been proposed for these evils, the introduction of our light...".(Grant 1832: 120)
Charles Grant could not help but appreciate the way of life of Hindus, but his overwhelming hatred for the heathens and desire for colonial power made him say the opposite.
JP has admitted he does not know about history, in the beginning itself, but JP should not make the same generalisation about British colonialism
Vishal and JP are basically Christian Missionary at this point. This whole podcast was full of propaganda and manipulation🤦🏻♀️At least bring a pro-Hindu like Abhijit Chavda. man that's the least you can do
@@deepika2644 if you look they will bring islamic scholar for talking about Islam .christain preacher to talk about Bible and Jesus. It translates to
call anyone to talk about India , it's culture it's philosophy, hinduism .. 😂😂 what's there wid this poor uncivilised pagans. 😂 Not so important. Just call anyone.
@@deepika2644 j sai deepak would tear them apart singlehandedly
I'm not even Indian, but this is just pure nonsense, none of them understand basic philosophy of Sanatana Dharma, the principles of karma, dharma and the holy scriptures... : (
Twenty three minutes in and Mr. Mangalwadi has presented a hilariously distorted picture of Hinduism via texts (the Vedas) that apparently he hasn't read because they were never written down because there was no "script," I believe he said, I'm sitting here wondering if I'm actually hearing what I'm hearing, or if he understands what Sanskrit is? He dismisses the Vedas as basically incantations of magical rites that have nothing to do with knowing truth...has he never heard of Vedanta? Apparently not. Then he dismisses Islam, again on the basis of not being able to find a translation in his native tongue. So that's out.
Then he starts to talk about the Bible representing it as an antisemitic text (what the actual f___ dude), rambles on into a discussion of Wittgenstein who, again, he doesn't seem to understand and seems to be confusing with a mangled version of Derrida... Of course Peterson is sitting there eating this up because he hasn't read the Koran or the Hindu holy books and his peculiar (mis)understanding of postmodernism was gained second-hand.
I faded out and then you have Peterson insisting that the basis of individual human rights that is our legacy from the Enlightenment came from the Bible, again it's like The Age of Reason was a reaction to church authority in the name of science and rationality, hence the name. If Peterson wants to read an actual Enlightenment philosopher and Founding Father who considered the Bible idiotic and dangerous he would need seek no further than Thomas Paine. This video is a complete and utter waste of time except insofar as it leads people to seek the original sources themselves.
I think India is still a relatively poor nation because of Nationalistic pride. the Hindus and their Muslims rulers did very little to improve the lives of the common people, If they would adopt the positive attitude of nation who recognized that they have been an invaded (Not conquered) nation as Japan, and still can adapt their character to a new culture mixed with the indigenous features maybe by now they would be a world power, as as long as they live in denial their neighbors (like South Korea) will surpass them
hey Jordan, the guest feels flimsy by your standards. His reasons for not getting into vedas/quran are childish, he calls hindi india's national lang (it's not), and sorry I don't feel like listening to him for an hour or so more, I stopped here. Please bring someone who actually knows stuff and could talk about it with clarity.
Also, the british brought in evangelists to educate/convert people to christianity and fortunately they failed. The country's just too big and too diverse. No disrespect to Indian Christians, them's the facts. Well, our old gods are still alive and we are probably one of the very few people on earth who could say that.
Also, would love to hear your thoughts on hinduism or Indian civilisation as a whole :) Never seen you talk on that subject. Gang gang
Sanatana Dharma (Hinduism) has been and the more I immerse myself and open my heart and mind-the lost and Most Needed Truth-i have never felt more understood, understanding of others, motivated and at peace until I have made the effort to do the work to really understand the Vedas, Puranas and Ithihasa of my roots. I respect you deeply Dr Peterson and this man has every right to express his thoughts- but they do no reflect the feelings nor reality of many In India. The influence Indian thought and civilisation has had on the world is tremendous-history and religions over many thousands
Years old. I hope you will be open to foray out of your comfort zone in Western philosophies and try to understand the true depth of Dharmic thought. Hindustan (India) is predicated on deep concepts that reflect in its diet, geography, history, and comfort with chaos..it is challenging to understand India through a Western ideology, For myself, Hinduism is the bliss I have sought for so long. Shivoham .
Don't put your agenda here.
Your Indian brothers are dying because of hunger. Now you have only duty, serve your poor brother who are dying 🙏
@@sauravcyrus1935 respectfully you are putting your agenda aren’t you? Or did you miss that? I will express how I choose to be fit as have you. The beauty of dharma is we are
Sovereign with choice and freedom.
Zero bliss for untouchable Dalits for thousands of years. Just pure misery.
Are you an Indian immigrant living in the US?
@@NameforYouT she’s your typical lost western woman.
50:40 Omg, this a horrible understanding and a conflation of Brahminism with entire Hinduism. The social reformers in South India called Virashaivas and Basavanna and the Siddha Yogi traditions of Tamil Nadu, the Varkari Saint tradition of Maharashtra, Gaudiya Vaishnavism of Bengal, Nath Yogi Parampara of Middle India, the entire tradition of Yogis and Tantra people, all being Hindus have denounced Caste system and demanded equality. Even really Vedic Hindus when they oppressed were transgressing against the message of Vedas as in Bhagavat Gita it is clearly said you have to treat everyone as yourself and God resides them in all. This is literally saying love thy neighbour as thyself.
Ye JBP ki government bik chuki hai ....
@@ankiiths3274 tera akal bigad gaya hai
If you call a christian missionary for this conversation obviously he will talk bad about hinduism 😂
I’m sure you’ll also get a Hindu to speak for Hinduism , it’s strengths and weaknesses soon. A practicing Hindu , not one just by name, that is.
Read the bible brother just for a time. 🙏❤️
I am sure he will.
A Santanai would be a better word.
Go to India with a free mind. Not for a day or two. You will know what Hinduism is all about. It’s the the way of life. There are no books to read and learn about Hinduism.👍🏽
@@sauravcyrus1935 i don’t need saving , mate. Besides , it’s completely irrelevant to what I said.
'The humble sages, by virtue of true knowledge, see with equal vision a learned and gentle brāhmaṇa, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater [outcaste]'
Bhagavad Gita. Chapter 5, verse 18
But would he see a child being sacrificed and oppose it , would he see a rape and opppse it. If yes then he is admitting that some ways of life lead you away from God and all paths dont lead to God.
@@akhiljames3435 Jesus did not oppose the genocide of 100 million native americans, he does not oppose rapes committed every 1 to 2 minutes in the USA, he does not oppose child marriages in the US and UK, he does not oppose shooting of children in the US. And you are telling, this path leads to God? This is your reasoning?
Pls bring a real good scholar on Hinduism.
Yea he should bring a scholar who is not a Christian and a scholar who embraces *HINDUTVA* 😏
@@catbilota2492 YES.
So a religious preacher?
How about no
@@TheReaper569 Gandu Scholars n religious preacher r different. Scholars work in academics.
@@darshu94 many scholars are preachers though. You ve seen it with muslim scholars JP interviewed.
I am a Hindu listener and fan of JBP for many years, since before he became very famous. I have read some of his books and listened to probably hundreds of hours of his UA-cam videos by now. I must say, this is perhaps the most dissapointing and shockingly propagandistic video I have ever witnessed of his. I am beyond saddened that millions of people will view this video and their first and probably only impressions of India and Sanatana Dharma/Hinduism will be the dirty missionary propaganda and debunked lies of Mr. Mangalwadi. For the past 15 years I have studied Hinduism, Vedic culture and Indian history. I also happened to grow up deeply fundamentalist Christian and was taught at my missionary schools all the same old points Mr Mangalwadi brought up. Over the years, I have researched for myself the many issues surrounding so called caste, widow burnings, child marriages, Brahmin supremacy and Aryan/Dravidian divide etc. What i have found is that all these issues were originally concocted by missionaries in order to gain entry into India.
If you look at the accounts of the Greek, Persian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Tibetan, Nepali, Thai and Vietnamese historians and scribes, they were ALL in complete awe of India and Hindu civilization. Practically all of the world held india in the highest regard until fairly recently. Even the East India Company was amazed by the technology, education, medicine, architecture, ship building and textile industries of India. It wasn't until the missionaries started their public scare campaigns back home in Englad did you hear of such horrendous crimes being commited in India by bloodthirsty barbaric hindoo tribals. WIthout the approval of the parliament back in England, there was no way for the missionaries to legally enter India, they would be immediately sent back. So they concocted so many lies to presure the parliament into allowing them into India to "civilize the barbarians".
Time and time again I was shocked to hear the outrageous claims and straight up lies told by this guest. Even the simple things like Hindi being the national language of India. India has no national language, let alone be it Hindi. I feel bad for JBP as he is self adimittedly ignorant on Indian history, civilization and Hinduism and knows no better. My hope is that JBP will have on a guest that actually knows what they're talking about, and an actual Hindu to represent HInduism and Indian civilization, instead of a converted Christian missionary with a clear bias and agenda.
If you've read this far, I BEG of you to PLEASE look up these academics and intellectuals on UA-cam to get an accurate and truly profound depiction and description of Indian culture and Hinduism. Rajiv Malhotra, Meenakshi Jain, Koenraad Elst, Rohit Arya, Abhijit Chavda, David Frawley, Stephen Knapp. There are also fantastic channels such as: Sangam talks, Festival of Bharat, Infinity Foundation, Centre for Indic Studies, India Inspires, and The Carvaka Podcast. Please give these voices and platforms a chance before simply beliving what this Mr. Mangalvadi has presented here. Hari Om Tat Sat
I used to watch JBP in admiration, for his candid and brilliant articulation abilities. Not anymore, "For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?”
Very well said. 👏
How are you going to tell the story of 1.3 billion people, from a missionary prespective
A detailed book "How The Bible Created Modern India" is coming soon on 15 August 2022.
This conversation has so many factual and theoretical errors thats its mind boggling. The only reason why Dr Peterson didnt counter it might be because he doesnt know Indian history and its religious philosophies, as he himself confesses in the beginning. That being said, a proper Indic scholar well versed on the Indic framework itself should be called on to discuss these matters if Dr Peterson is interested in a nuanced perspective and not the inaccurate hogwash that is characteristic of many historians with vested interests.
Can you please share a few factual and theoretical error which you observed, it would be interesting to know.
Hi Mike,
The UA-cam comment section is certainly not the place to speak about these matters at length. They require nuance and also several historical and philosophical aspects to be made clear.
I will share an article at a later time.
Moreover, by pointing out the issues with Vishal's narrative (which he surely is free to do so as he pleases) will not be seen an honest intellectual exercise by people like our friend Michael, no matter how well grounded I am in the matter. So I respectfully decline from going forward with this conversation on the comment section. Please reach out separately if interested.
Thanks
@@nitinajithkumar If an accusation is levelled against someone then there should be a minimum decency to provide facts to backup those accusations which is sign of scholarly understanding else it is considered as a kiddish way of name calling and running away under the guise of respectability which was already lost when the accusations were levelled....it can also reflect as an intent of creating confusion and doubts in infant minds who blindly follow their masters.
I just asked for a few out of the many mind boggling errors you observed my frn.
this indicates, in a sort, the blind respect jordan has developed for baptized people out of his faith in "the Bible" and God.
@@meetjeev if there was one or a few or several errors there, it would have been possible to point them out and present with facts and lengthy discussions on the subjects particular. but due to the sheer pointlessness of this video and the errors and ramblings of this propagandist Mangalwadi, it is made impossible for any person to try to present each of it with facts and especially because that would be pointless, as the man talking in the video lacks any credibility you can ever give to him. read through the comment section you'll find many arguments, presentation of facts therein and many more things.
take this comment in indifference. this is written in an indifferent manner.
40:00 if you don't understand Indian culture and true history then please don't force your incomplete knowledge and ideas Vishal Mangalwadi, please.
The guest's views on the Hindu Dharma are unfair and perverse. Dr Peterson, it is a kind request that you invite a practicing Hindu speaker and provide an opportunity to throw light on the Dharma. These are mischievous opinions that preserve and nurture falsehoods.
I am someone who is fond of Dr. Jordan Peterson. In fact, I feel that I agree with him on many things that he has to say. But I believe that Dr. Peterson needs to bring in fresh ideas in his podcasts. Every podcast seems to now simply repeat the same underlying idea which I think is detrimental to reaching the truth. I am sad to say this but Dr. Peterson's remarks are becoming quite predictable and surprisingly most of his guests seem to have similar kinds of opinions that he does. It is very disappointing. Vishal Mangalwadi sure does have a strong opinion about Indian culture prior to British rule. I feel this opinion of his is formed by looking at the subject through a very extreme lens. Perhaps Dr. Peterson could have brought someone to share the other perspective on the matter so as to balance the narrative of the entire video. Dr. Peterson needs to venture out of his comfort zone which is that of looking at the subject matter through a Christian and western lens. I suggest this because looking at things from various different perspectives helps give a more holistic representation of a subject matter. Only exploring one aspect results in further polarization which is something I believe Dr. Peterson accepts is a dangerous phenomenon that is occurring extensively right now in western society. I would like to conclude by imploring Dr. Peterson to start actively exploring more diverse subject matter with a more diverse range of perspectives so as to show his support against violent polarization and to advocate for more open and productive debates of ideas.
Whom would you suggest? Looking through his last selection of guests, they're diverse in their beliefs and fields of speciality. Maybe he needs somebody from the far-left, and somebody from the far-right?
He talked to Richard Dawkins in the previous episode?
@@StevenOBrien and Dawkins really took him to task, it was funny but I appreciated jbp sticking to his guns about why he said what he said while also admitting that it was speculation in the highest order
Dr. Peterson read Vishal’s book. Perhaps you should consider doing likewise.
I highly doubt Jordan Peterson would ever bring on people like Sarvapriyananda who actually knows, practiced and studies Hinduism, Vedanta, Buddhism and instead bring people who further reinforces his extreme Christian and Western bias.
I'm JP'S ONE OF BIGGEST FANS, having learned a lot from him through his lectures ( especially his biblical lectures) but I have to say this with a heavy heart that this video seemed to me to be christian propaganda and promoting falsehoods about Hinduism and India. Individual identity should be greater than group identity, is one among the many lessons I have learned from Dr. Jordan Peterson; but lately I have noticed that DR. Jordan Peterson has himself forgotten that lesson . it's sad to see him constantly harping on about how the Bible is the ultimate truth and everything good came from it and that other scriptures and epics are only partially true and more often than not evil. He needs to study india and hinduism in more detail imo, and this is coming from an admirer of not just JP but of Jesus Christ too. I hope he sees this comment.
Christianity is entirely about individual identity. You cannot be a Christian by joining a Christian club/church/group. It is an individual relationship with God. Check out what Jesus said to Nicodemus in the gospel of John.
The Bible is the Truth 🙏
This guy's opinions of Hinduism can be ignored completely. It's untrue and lazy.
@@hakaisayianz7000 how much time does it take to get brainwashed like you?
@@akhileshbhatu Then refute his arguments in his book "The World of Gurus".
300 bce greek historian Megasthenes wrote in his book Indika that "all Indians are free not one of them is a slāve".
This was 300 years before Christ was even born. And European civilization on the other hand had blacks as slāves in literal chains and human zoos of blacks and Asians even as late as in 20th century.
So much so for bible and british colonialism "civilising" us? Huh
Half of the video is misinformation and
Comment section looks like a cult gathering
@@michaelaratnam6517 Megasthenes was not a tourist. He's called a historian for a reason. By saying that he was duped by Indians, you are only questioning his authority and intelligence.
Ok let's take another example. Of chinese Xuanzang a Buddhist monk, scholar, traveler, and translator. He visited India in 7th century ad. He also wrote a lot of details about India, he never mentioned any sort of slavêry in India, forget about slāvêry, he didn't even mention any sort of discrimination in Indian society. infact no one did before british, not even Turks who also invāded subcontinent, but I don't take the authority of invāders as fact.
Let's take another example of latest historians like Will Durant, know who he is? Durant wrote that "The British conquest of India was the invasion and destruction of a high civilization by a trading company utterly without scruple or principle, careless of art and greedy of gain, over-running with fire and sword a country temporarily disordered and helpless, bribing and murdering, annexing and stealing, and beginning their career of illegal and 'legal' plunder which has now gone on ruthlessly for one hundred and seventy-three years."
And here's what Will Durant said about Islāmic conquest of India, the so called Mughals of central Asia who Invāded India before the british, "The Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex of order and freedom, culture and peace, can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without or multiplying within."
He said many more things about India, i would suggest you read some of his work.
Moving on...
India was not invāded by Britishers only. India is one of the most invāded country in the world. Invāsions started in 8th ad century itself. Slāvêry came along with these invāsions. British first came to Bengal province of India. That province was still under Mughal rule who had slavês. Marathas already liberated majority of India from mughals and abolished slāvêry in 1677 itself. By that time british were only limited to Bengal. After that british took over by defeating Marathas and once again, India was invāded. Slāvêry was also brought back by Britishers.
@@michaelaratnam6517 hey ricebag.where did you obtain the certificate of copypaste?? From Oxford?🤔
@@yatanx ready for action against arrogant evangelists and islamists
What a shame of a video!
Unsubscribing now.
I can take Vishal's point of view, but it isn't anywhere close to the actual take on Hinduism. Allahabad isn't a Muslim city either. I get that his introduction to Hinduism was clothed in ritual and utterances of mantras, but that is far far from how Hinduism is followed, or followed in the past. Feel like he has an unconscious bias against religions that he moved away from, and has a very nascent understanding of any of the concepts.
You hate truth and hence prefer lies . why can't you take the whole context of discussion. just because your hindu ,you can't be unlogical.
@@rajeshshetty4862 What is the truth that I hate?
@Taevas Because JP is wise and reads books then to comment without knowledge .
@@rajeshshetty4862 if you follow anyone, even JP, as though they can do no wrong, and that you have to merely mirror their opinion, you aren't really a JP follower. You've missed the point of all his self help work.
@Taevas True that. While I feel it was his intention to get someone well versed with the Bible, JP would probably not know if his take on Hinduism is shared by at least a good portion of people.
This certainly wasn't.
@Jordan B Peterson you should do a podcast with Abhijit Chavda, Dr. Subhas Kak, or Rajiv Malhotra for a better understanding of Indian History and culture. Christianism in India, and Vedas. Abhijit doesn't mince his words or try to sugarcoat or whitewash History. For Sanskrit, you can invite Nityānanda Miśra. He is very good. The Cast system explained by Mr. Vishal is pretty misleading. The Cast system itself needs a whole podcast.
From being 100 percent educated before British and 17 percent in 1947, secondly the greek ( cradle of western civilization ) recognised indians as sages and people of great culture and knowledge , the philosophy of various thing that you call western has its origins from India , the are various mentions buy Greeks themselves that indian was a republican state read megatheses plz , there no battle of philosophy and science between your civilization and mine ,plz read
100%?! lowers castes weren't even allowed to read and write
Exactly
Incorrect. Alexander's Greeks invaded India a full two and a half thousand years ago. At that time, there was no unitary entity called India. The region was populated with various republics and kingdoms.
@@gauravtejpal8901 hey ignorant it was always called bharat... it was divided between different kingdoms. it was always called aryavarta.
@@abhijeetsingh4824 No. You are the ignorant one. Its sad that you have tried your ego to it
Rice bag revolution
Just a few ideas about contextualising issues surrounding topics discussed ....
TL:DR .... India is incredibly huge and a serious investigation of what its religion, culture and politics actually means and how they developed requires way more than just a few anecdotes.
*the west had its own caste system, namely the estates. That was effectively dismantled by the industrial revolution. India got (and is still getting) its industrial revolution quite late. India received in about the 20th century over 65 years what the west received in about 17th century over 300 years. This has a ton of implications ranging from the very idea of nationhood (what to speak of ideas surrounding "nationhood", once that term becomes a viable tool for a community's rumination in the space opened up by a redundant or disintegrating caste/estate system ) to the delegation of civic order in the tension between legally accounted mandated laws and mere social norms (there is nothing in the contemporary western lexicon that approximates the Panchayati Raj, namely how things are to this day managed at the Indian village level). I think it is less a question of the degree that Christianity has influenced contemporary India and more a question of how the concomitant offshoots that Christianity pioneered (such as legal frameworks around nationhood, economics, the "institution" as a new social technology, etc) that is more to the point. Its more that because there were no institutions per se (much like there were, for the most part, no institutions in medieval Europe), there were no institutions operating to manage compassion, charity etc. The notion that people in India required Christianity in order to integrate base notions of compassion and charity is absurd.
* Early 1980's India (by all accounts), with Indira Gandhi, was incredibly turbulent. The world was looking on kind of nervously wondering whether there was going to be a democracy or a despotic form of government. Doesn't matter where you look in the world, you are not going to find shining examples of virtue in persons who are caught in the grip of poverty and chaos. Politics is pretty zany everywhere, and the fact that the comings and goings, for better or for worse, of the world's largest democracy never really permeates international news feeds is an indication that there is something about it that just has too much background information and noise to be easily digestible.
*Because there is a sort of village identity that predominates in rural India, it is less the case that individuals convert to Christianity and more the case that families and even entire villages convert to Christianity. And a lot of the times there can be a sort of coercing or reluctance that goes into that .... and this creates its own unique tensions that commonly and inevitably creates flashpoints .... and at that time people outside see the flashpoints but have no vision of the causes. For instance, a common method for proselytising is to offer cash incentives (maybe something like 1000usd per person) to convert to Christianity. A lot of the time that comes with a lot of disparaging of local customs (often broadcast over 120 decibel loud speakers outside the church ... its kind of par for the course of religion in India, regardless of faith ... the 120 decibel PA system, not the public disparagement of competing faiths) ... 8th commandment is kind of a popular one to be vocal about, more so than the 1st... so it is less a "leap of faith" as it is commonly understood in the west and more a covert form of manipulation, enticement or just simply going along with what you have already thrown your lot in with socially, whether it be one's family or one's village. Of course others who may convert in more urban or educated circles would certainly have a different experience, but it is mostly in these village backwater places that all these news stories about extreme christian persecution come from. Anyway I am just offering this by way of explanation. I don't think there is any obvious solution. It is part of a bigger issue in that Indian culture has traditionally been introverted, and the notion that a universalizing proposition demands proselytising is just borrowed from the west, .... and there's a whole lot of circling the wagons that now goes on in the name of orthodoxy, and not exclusively in expressions of christianity, I might add ...
* there is a tendency to default to the notion that adwaita (monist) schools are the sole contender for India's spiritual heritage, completely bypassing the dwaita (dualist) schools. I think this is because the monist school integrates better with Buddhism (and historians love being able to show cause and effect seamlessly). There is an even an argument that the British gave , upon their arrival on the scene, undue importance to monism (love of historians, the unavoidable and awkward problems of sanskrit being patently categorized as an "Indo-European" language, etc).There is literally a ton of commentaries available from the past 1000 or so years on precisely what the dualists (Ramanuja, Madhva, Nimbarkha, Vishnuswsmi) and the monists (Sankhacharya) have to say about things. This is not just some cerebral venture into ecclesiastical hair splitting ... when citing Brahman (the undifferentiated oneness that permeates reality) as an orthodoxical precept that errodes personalism (and thus underpins a malefic disregard of civic obligation in the guise of impersonalism), one really should examine precisely what orthodoxy one is drawing from. For a very basic starter, such an examination would determine whether there is value in decompressing the 4 vedas or beginning first with the Puranas (Narratives based on the vedas). Given Peterson's full engagement with narrative, it is disappointing to not really see him engage with the Puranas. Even in Maps of Meaning, when he briefly touched on Indra's encounter with Vrtasura (a pastime that is packed with core values of the dualist schools), it rung of some sterile excerpt from the work of some other santized monist influenced western academic who probably didn't know any better himself.
Agree with all your points.
But, don't even think this guy JP is reading these comments.
He seems to have an agenda here.
Disappointed that JP is engaging with christian missionaries out to erase native religions in India
I believe you haven't really learned nor listened to anything JP has been preaching throughout the years as evident from your disappointment. One must be always ready to have discourse with individuals who differ ideologically from us and also listen, we don't necessarily have to agree with them but simply let them make their case too.
@@GodfreyofBouillionJordan himself doesn't practice what he preaches, especially in that regard.
I honestly want to learn what the native Indian religions have contributed to the world?
JP turned out to be a closet Evangelical fanatic. I realize that he lacks the ability to comprehend the true meaning of Dharma. Another whitewashing of Christian brutality. Abrahamics should first learn to accept unbelievers fully, only then can you go into criticisms of other social structures.
Those in power write the history, while those who suffer write the songs.
It's great that the most translated music is the christian music right? Empowering the locals to develop their music culture, nothing that secularism or any other religion have been able to do.
@@danielcastro9650 I don't know much about music and how music empowers people, no idea
Sorry peterson bible has no role in shaping india
Yes this is so true , and also Christianity spread in India not to long ago .
Watch the video first then comment dude.
Still has a major impact whether you like it or not. (BTW I may be christian but I am also inidan, just putting it out there)
Gandhi was inspired by Tolstoy, who gave his life to Christ.
When you say “no role,” that’s a pretty blanket statement for a country with over a billion people, where regions are separated by thousands of different gods, different religions, different sects, different political cultures….
So perhaps you mean Christ didn’t influence your town or city or region?
The Indian Caste System is a joke. People think they are so high and mighty just cus they were born into a family with a last name that solely decides their success in life. While other lower class people have no choice but to stay low for generations just cus their last name from thousands of years ago was low. It’s BS
JP, Bible undoubtedly had a huge impact on the West. But it has very little impact on India.
Someone as mature and esteemed as you should have brought someone who's a practicing Hindu or Vedanta scholar to represent Hinduism. Because India has been shaped a huge deal by Hindu scriptures like Upanishads, Vedas, Bhagavad Gita or even Manusmriti.
This fellow completely misrepresented Hindu concepts of Karma and Caste system.
Bring, the likes of Swami Sarvapriyananda, Swami Mukundananda etc in your podcast.
Hinduism is a beautiful religion, don't misrepresent it.
Lol the constitution has a lot of influence from judeo Christian world
i mean what do u expect from him....he is obsessed with christianity....the person he brought is also obsessed with christianity...lol...look him up on google...his lectures will surely give u a good laugh atleast....just because JP is against left doesnt make him all righteous...he still is that christian who calls maa kali a satan....u are still a pagan aka satanist fro him......christian who killed people who didnt adhere to christianity...and pushes propaganda to spread christianity in india as rampantly as they can thats why he gave this mangalwadi his platform to misguide people...he knows many people hear him across the world why dont he use this advantage to help missionaries in india and create a notion abt hinduism across west...since many people in the west have started to look towards eastern philosophies and are atheist when comes to christianity
India adopted western institutions
That were influenced by the Bible
Meaning India was influenced by
the Bible Culturally
Caste system is not beautiful. Stop being an apologist. If it's so good, let's bring it back then.
Welcome to the intellectual dishonesty of Jordan Peterson.
Am a huge admirer of yours, however, have been lately put off by your discussions with persons of different religions. They have about as much reality as there is water you can drink directly from the ocean. Wish you has read up about India before this interview. India is older than 400 years old. You may like to know that Arabs don't consider Indian muslims as real ones as they were converts by the sword not by faith. Indian christians are also pretty similar. India was more psychologically advanced than most of the psychologists and philosophers you so admire. You have been gas lit by this ricebag christian. Sorry your naivete has let you down. Can't imagine where you found such a person from.
I am a huge fan of your lectures, the way you think and speak has channelized my intellect significantly. Extremely disappointed that this talk even happened, it goes to show the level of ignorance and blind eye that you turn towards India and its history. It is a grave injustice to you as a scientist and a seeker of truth, to let this huge mistake be left unaddressed. I humbly urge you to dive deep into understanding the history and philosophy that comes from the great land of Bharat to set the record straight. It is understandable that everyone need not know everything, but when there is so much untruth being given a stage like this even a busy and learned man like you has to take a step back and re-evaluate. Given your intellectual stature in the west, I believe it is imperative for you to show us that you are actually an open-minded person and not just a blind missionary of the church.
Why not invite J Sai Deepak for counter views on this subject? It's only fair. We get to hear the other side of the story too, right?
i love j sai but i think there are more senior hindu scholars who should be invited.
vijay mallya is so profound when you sit and talk to him🙏
Yeah the conman Vijay mallya
@@jollygood4591 he seems to be really religious now
😅🤣😂😂
😂😂😂😂😂
“The king's under the law, for it's the law makes him a king.” ― C.S. Lewis, The Horse and His Boy.
Ever think about how weird that must have sounded to Cor after living in Calormen?
India does not need Bible and we have our own sculptures and history. Keep your bible history with yourself folks.
Recently, a missionary couple converted thousands of tribals forcefully in india
@@deepika2644 yeah they put gun and forcely change their religion under bjp rule..😆
@@deepika2644 true
Lmao your scriptures 💀. The Indian constituency itself is inspired from West. If it was inspired by your Scriptures there won't be education for women and lower caste won't get the rights and education they deserve
@@deepika2644 Good lie. Says a guy whose country is populated by 79% of hindus but get scared of 2% minority religion. Firstly those tribal people are Animist and spiritist not a part of Brahman dharm. Those Tribal people that got converted were due to education and facility Christianity gave them.