The Book of Enoch: Fallen Angels and the Modern Crisis
Вставка
- Опубліковано 25 чер 2024
- I recently gave a talk at a college in Quebec about the book of Enoch and how it relates to the modern world and our ecological apocalyptic narrative. It was titled "Fallen Angels and the Contemporary Crisis". This is an English translation of that talk.
==============================
Timestamps:
00:00:00 - Preview...
00:00:26 - Intro music
00:00:51 - Introduction
00:01:25 - Start: The basic structure of the fall
00:02:01 - The meaning of the Fall
00:07:38 - The meaning of technology
00:09:00 - Consecutive Falls
00:11:28 - Founding of the city
00:13:00 - The Fall and the increase of duality
00:14:07 - Cain's sons: the aspects of technology
00:15:13 - Increase in body: the nephilim
00:19:59 - The two traditions of the origins of giants
00:21:32 - The end of the world
00:22:41 - Introduction to the Book of Enoch
00:26:04 - The coming revelation
00:28:05 - The natural, orderly patterns
00:31:10 - Falling intelligences that devour the world
00:37:02 - Changing the world: power through desire
00:40:29 - Fornication and technology
00:41:34 - Man being destroyed
00:42:52 - Prayer for intercession
00:44:33 - The judgment of God
00:47:23 - Greek mythology: Prometheus: the cycle of the passions
00:50:55 - The minotaur: hybridity and mixture
00:54:57 - The result: the flood
00:55:21 - The modern world: technical progress and desire
01:01:33 - The genie is out of the bottle
01:07:25 - Surrounding cultural narratives today
01:09:18 - Conclusion
01:12:23 - Outro
==============================
- The Symbolic World website and blog: www.thesymbolicworld.com
- Merch: www.thesymbolicworld.store
- The Language of Creation (Matthieu Pageau): www.amazon.com/Language-Creat...
- Carving workshop: jonathanpageau.thinkific.com/...
The Symbolic World podcast:
- Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUw...
- Apple podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
More videos from The Symbolic World:
- Clips Channel: / jonathanpageauclips
- French Channel: / jonathanpageaufrançais
- Bitchute: www.bitchute.com/channel/page...
- Dtube: steemit.com/@symbolism
Join the conversation:
- Unofficial Facebook discussion group: / 1989208418065298
- The Symbolic World Reddit: / thesymbolicworld
Support this channel:
- Website: thesymbolicworld.com/support/
- Patreon: / pageauvideos
- Subscribestar: www.subscribestar.com/jonatha...
- Paypal: www.paypal.me/JonathanPageau
Social media links:
- Facebook: / thesymbolicworld
- Twitter: / pageaujonathan
- Instagram: / jonathan.pageau
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.
My website designers, Anomalist Design: www.anomalistdesign.com/
I first started learning about all this last year from a scholar Dr Michael Heiser and his podcast and books. Once I started to grasp this all of a sudden our world made so much more sense. It’s not just God and “Devil” there is a whole hierarchy or organization of Darkness that move through and around those not under the protection of faith in Jesus Christ. The evil in this world is not random, and not just human and that’s so important in today’s world to see.
Pageua plus dr heiser is a good combo
There are Vast Armies, but they follow God or oppose Him.
The devil and the demons do His Will. They are His “left hand.” He works all things for good, including wickedness for repentance.
Yes Dr Heiser nails it … you’re so close but missing the full story
Yes!!! Heiser is the go to source for most of the supernatural biblical world. I read your comment and i'm thinking "same here!"
This might be the most important video you've ever made, Jonathan. I can't think of any other you've made that lays out what's going on and what's coming more clearly than this video.
I agree !!
I agree, this talk was highly illuminating.
Pentecost for the Zombie Apocalypse and the Logos talk are definitely up there
Except it’s not. This is just New Age Mysticism masquerading as false light. There’s a reason why the Book of Enoch is not in the Bible. It’s not inspired by the Spirit. People who don’t read the Bible always seem to forget about Cain’s firstborn who’s name is Enoch in Genesis chapter 4. And what does the Bible say about Cain? The first born of Satan, the evil one, a murderer etc.
@@user-tp7wi4lt2b Pentacost for the Zombie Apocalypse for sure!!!!! That video was fire 🔥
“Gods Will = regular precession of orderly patterns onto reality”
Mind was blown a few times in the talk 🤯
Amazing
Agreed! - that statement stuck me also - so succinct and rich.
"Orderly patterns". Let's equate this to Gods TIME.
The Hebrew word for "disorder" means "evil, wickedness" in english.
Order = righteousness
Disorder = wickedness
All through the poetic books of psalms, which are 75% poems, or sometimes calls songs, it continually says that wickedness is the opposite of righteousness.
Righteousness = order, known as good
Wickedness = disorder, known as evil
In hebrew numbering, an ORDINAL number always is listed as the first day of the month, called new moon day. All other days in a hebrew month, in scripture, are listed as cardinal numbers.
Ordinal numbers are used for ORDERING
While cardinal numbers are used for GROUPING.
A hebrew week is called a group. This group must have a leader, called a CHIEF in hebrew.
The hebrew word chief is "rosh", which also means "first, head" in hebrew.
First is an ordinal number. New moon day is ALEAYS the first day of the month. Lead by the leader, the chief day. That then GROUPS the weeks.
This is why the hebrew bible says that the MOON determines the weeks.
Leviticus 23:1-4 in the hebrew, twice defines the 7th day sabbath as a MOEDIM.
Psalm 104:19 and Ecclesiasticus 43:6-8 command that the MOON appoints the MOEDIM.
This proves that the moon appoints the true 7th day sabbath.
The english word "week" is the hebrew word "shabua". The definition of shabua is "a PERIOD of 7 days".
A period is a GROUPING of cardinal numbers, after being ORDERED by an ordinal number.
That word "PERIOD" in the definition, is synonomous (the same as) the word PHASE, in both the Hebrew and english languages.
So the literal definition of a week, called a shabua in hebrew, is "a PHASE of seven days".
God told us we must OBSERVE his sabbath day. The hebrew word OBSERVE is a verb that means "to look up". What are we looking up at? The moon, to see/witness what PHASE of seven days it is on.
Each month, directly after new moon day, the day of ORDERING, the moon has exactly 4 lunar weeks, called phases of seven days, that reveal when Gods 7th day will be.
This is why God literally said that we can look up, to observe when his sabbath day is.
On page 410 of the Jewish encyclopedia, it reads "the new moon day still is and the sabbath originally was dependant upon the moons lunar phases".
Whoever has ears to hear, let him obey.
@@greymatter-TRTH maybe not that guys. But Enoch uses the word ORDER to describe the "first" day of the month. First being an ORDINAL number.
And scripture calls the first day of the month the "Chief" day. The chief is the highest ranking military officer in Hebrew culture. The Chief gives the ORDERS.
@@greymatter-TRTH no he is not. Alpha and omega are the first and last letters of the greek alphabet. When God first declared that he was the "aleph tav" 3 seperate times in the book of Isaiah, the greeks nor the greek alphabet did not even exist.
The book of Revelation was written in Hebrew, not Greek. It was later translated to greek, which is why they CHANGED the prophecy rooted in Isaiah, to "alpha omega" instead of "aleph tav".
Alpha omega means NOTHING. But aleph tav is the sign of the direct object in Hebrew. The untranslated power.
Aleph means "strong leader". That word leader is the word "Chief" in hebrew, which is synonomous with the word "first" in hebrew. The number "first" is an ordinal number (not a cardinal number).
The letter tav, the last letter in the hebrew alphabet, means the "sign" (of the covenant). The two sticks intersecting, or bonded together is what the Tav depicts. The two sticks form a + shape, pointing to the 4 CARDINAL directions.
The "sign" of the covenant is the 7th day sabbath according to Deuteronomy. Gods 7th day sabbath sits fixed to the 4 cardinal directions, which are led by the ORDINAL new moon day, called the "first day".
In hebrew, ordinal numbers must preceed cardinal numbering.
1. New moon day, the FIRST (ordinal day) is symbolized by "aleph", the FIRST letter of the hebrew alphabet.
2. The 7th day sabbaths, 4 of them per month, sit on the 4 corners of the earth directionally, E, S, W, N, called the cardinal points. Symbolized by the Tav, the last letter.
The hebrew sabbath is called a MOEDIM according to Leviticus 23:1-4 and Jubilees 50:9 and 50:13.
Psalm 104:19 and Ecclesiasticus 43:6-8 state that the MOON must appoint the MOEDIM.
And the moons 4 phases per lunar month have exactly 4 periods of seven days, which each periods seventh day sitting exactly at the 4 cardinal points. And none of these 4 lunar "weeks" of phases can begin until the ORDINAL day of new moon day is observed, as a holy set apart worship day.
The "aleph tav" reveals this. However, the greek "alpha and omega" has no revelational significance whatsoever.
Lol that's not even deep. Reality will be what it is regardless of what philosophical love language we use to describe it. It's ultimately a product of our minds
51:10 The Bull was a gift of Poseidon. The king was required to sacrifice it, but because it was so beautiful he kept it and sacrificed another. Pasiphae was then taken by desire for the Bull (who then contacted Daedelus etc.)
This detail is important because it means that the tragedy started with the King's improper sacrifice; which then resulted in improper desire.
Never looked at this storie as a storie about a improper sacrifice, thank you for the insight
Posiedeon sure does love making his animals
Wow.
@@Paul-A01qq
@Effect got it! thanks
This is so on point. You can’t take what you want, it must be gifted to you from God, and he will give it to you when it’s time. To take in desire and greed, in lust, is the wrong way to be and leads to bad unexpected outcomes. God created you, he will supply you with what you need and want always at the right time.
Just a side note, when I say right time my experience is down to the last second, God doesn’t bother getting anywhere early, but he’ll come when you need him right at that last second, so the trick here is faith and to wait on God as hard as it can be sometimes.
In the Kingdom of God everything is given. Everything.
AMEN. What beautiful heavenly Truth! ❤
Very True indeed...!!! He seems to prefer intervening at the last possible moment when All seems to appear to be a lost cause or a hopeless situation..... In my experiences anyways... 👍✊🙏
I like this, and this has been my own experience, great insight 👍🏻🙏🏻
@@matthewbellis8620
My individual experience as well! !
This dude is amazing. Glad I found him & Matthieu through Jordan’s Biblical lectures. Great stuff.
Are they related?
@Effect Oh okay! Thanks! I just stumbled upon their great content! 👍 🗺️ I have a theory that kind of goes in line with their ideas. 💡 ua-cam.com/video/0oXYjQRis_g/v-deo.html
I just want to say that your content has changed my entire worldview, I genuinely couldn’t thank you enough.
If your channel is ever shut down or your content is no longer available online, I will be the first to support your written work if possible.
I’ve been wanting to post something like this for a while because I feel the crackdown on internet accessibility is probably inevitable. What you’re doing transcends the conventional dialogue and I shudder to think how woefully shallow my own world view would be absent my slow crawl to understanding your symbolic worldview over the last 5 or so years.
A thank you is hardly suffice, but I’ll say it anyway.
Thanks.
I can't unsee the things you laid out in this. They ring so deeply true and relevant, especially with where the world seems to be right now
Just knocking out 1 of the 9 main grid substations would be catastrophic...and security is near zero.
TECHNOCRACY is here...multi level.
They " Ring" so deeply true. Lol
I'm not saying they were giants... But they were giants.
Or they were giant corporations devouring resources until they started devouring men in terms of production and labor. Or both giant men devouring through physically eating men and corporations taking the production of men
@@julioruiz1934 Goliath was a giant, so was king ogg. The Bible says there were giants, so I believe the word of God.
Giants are just really tall people
There's evidence there was and is giants still today.
It's doesn't bother me at all if the giants were giants 🤦♂️
This is the book for the final generation. Thank you for covering it.
@@tc25dexamples please
This is Great!
Please do more lecture-type videos, it's really grounding.
Thank you for all you do, Jonathan!
Anything that resembles this format, I’d very much enjoy more of ❤️
Absurdly well done
Vv
Man loving all this content. Have had a constant flow of Pageau in the ear buds for the last few days.
Make sure you don't go insane.
@@alexanderwarpness850 that ship may have already set sail 😊
same here bro, even bought Matthieu's book
Me too
@@henriquefmarques15 great book! I made a couple videos doing a close reading of the first few parts. Stick with it
Your best talk since the one about Dante and love
When you spoke about the pattern this song popped into mind.
🎶 You can run on for a long time sooner or later GOD is gonna cut you down 🎶
Johnny Cash in the later years was definitely transcendent.
Is that “hurt”?
@@jeremybridges6015 God's Gonna Cut You Down
@@jeremybridges6015 God's Gonna Cut You Down by Johnny Cash
Yep, he knew his Amos😅
Not only is this book key to understand lots of what's going on now, but it also opens a door for seeking a deeper relationship with God. Enoch shows the way. I remember as a kid I used to think that, if Enoch could be so close to YHVH, why wouldn't we seek Him like that?
No problem, less you dash your foot against a stone...
@@villiestephanov984 😅😅😅
Absolutely fantastic 🙌So interesting and don’t understand why more epic movies haven’t been made bout these captivating and deep meaningful stories in the Bible.
They way you made the distinction between the two ways of discovering the different patterns of reality, Enoch after ascending to heaven and men by the descent of the principalities, reminded me of the distinction between sacred or traditional sciences and modern or profane sciences. In the case of the former, the ultimate purpose was to lead men towards a higher principle, while modern science just leads men further and further into multiplicity.
Edit: I do not want to write multiple comments, so I will just add to this one. Two ideas came to mind after watching the presentation further:
1)This pattern of a higher level mingling with a lower one resulting in chaos or confusion also appears in the Hindu caste system, in which if a woman of a higher caste marries a man from a lower one, the offspring will be considered an outcaste, a pariah.
2) Bitcoin seems to be just one more "layer of death", I immediately remembered it when Jonathan talked about some people that think that one more technological advance will solve our problems or will bring about an utopia here on earth.
Wow just wow 👌 👏🏽 Love the analysis
Listening to Jonathan speak the more I begin to understand that Dante had an unadulterated wealth of wisdom literature at his disposal as he wrote the Divine Comedy.
It just keeps making more and more sense!
One of my biggest pet peeves is when people mistake Dante for political propaganda. That completely ignores the wealth of religious wisdom in the Commedia that would benefit the modern Church.
Johnathan , you and your brother, Mathieu are for-me singular voices crying out in the wilderness of our human technological advancement. Technology and materialism are now galloping out of control. I pray for you both that you are protected spiritually from harm because your understanding and discourse about how reality lays itself out. Your message bears the unmistakable ring of inherent truth.
May St, Michael, the archangel and his heavenly legions surround you and your work with the protection of Gods grace.
Your message is fueled with the grace of The Holy Spirit, Thank you.
Loving the point where my “a-ha” comes regarding the giant bodies as they relate to civilization and the part technology plays in that. Thankyou for this enlightening talk.
Oooooooooo, was the noise I made when I saw the notification for this video. I was just watching lectures on Enoch last night! I’m excited 🤩
Enjoyed the show, Jonathan. I'm a former grad under Mike Heiser, and each week I listen to Father Stephen. I'm also a Charismatic/Evangelical and am very interested in spanning the gap between scholarship and the symbolic world in my particular expression within the Christian worldview. Thanks for the episode, really added a lot!
Love Mike Heiser's work. Would be great to hear a podcast with him and Jonathan.
@@peterjohn1217 It would be wonderful. I'm knee deep in the God Culture channel at the moment. As a new Christian I can't get enough but I always come back to Heiser and Pageau when I think I may have gone too far lol I will explore Father Stephen now.
@@rigavitch Father Stephen's Lord of Spirits podcast is definitely worth checking out if you like Jonathan's content. There's some good humour injected into their conversations too! You might also like Mike Winger and Alissa Childers if you haven't heard them already as they cover many topics.
@@rigavitchPlease listen more to the Holy Spirit than any man. He will teach you, as Scripture says. Get grounded in the Word first. Know what it says.
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing but to us who are being saved it is the power of God- 1 Timothy. Look into all the connections about the cross.
Love Heiser. I have ingested so much of his material and many podcasts. Such a blessing!
Very interesting. I've felt very awkward to technology for several years now. I was an atheist for most of my life, studied software engineering, and had this sort of nihilist hope in technology. As I began to learn that the world is heading down a cliff rather than upwards, I went into an existential crisis in which, after five years, I ultimately found the solution in Jesus Christ. My relationship with technology is very strange now. I feel bitter towards computer technology, because it has seduced and deceived me for so long. But at the same time, I also feel like a hypocrite, because I still use it for daily communication and learning theology. This video has not exactly helped me resolve that internal conflict, but it does help me to understand better in what way it is that technology tricks us into a continual and seemingly unstoppable sequence of self-destruction.
I agree....I'm with you in this.
@William Braddell It was quite the journey. It began with hitting such a rock bottom place in nihilism that I realized that there was, indeed, no reason to continue existing according to my world view. I had to either find a new world view, or give up on life. This is what allowed me to, at the very least, ignore my atheist prejudices for a while and genuinely consider whether religion might not have some value to it after all.
The key realization that allowed me to commit to this path into religion was that the atheist mindset, "the burden of proof lies with the religious people", was a cop-out. There were unanswered questions, and I was refusing to engage with them. I expected religious people, whom I didn't even respect, to do the work for me. It made no sense. It was a very unintelligent and lazy attitude.
I initially dived into a Buddhist / New Age sort of direction, since I thought Christianity could never be true because I had so many arguments against it. After 4½ years of engaging with spiritual and symbolic ideas, Christianity did not seem as inaccessible anymore. Jordan Peterson actually played a pretty big part in helping me notice that Christianity carries fundamental truths within its symbolic story-telling.
When I got involved with a Protestant community, I began learning about what Christianity actually was. I also read the bible for the first time. As a well-indoctrinated atheist, I actually believed that I knew the bible better than most Christians, because I saw and heard many atheist parodies of it that pretended to be accurate. It turned out that they only show a small part of the bible (they particularly love the Torah), twist the context, and insert a lot of "artistic freedom" in their interpretation.
When I genuinely began to experiment with prayer, and things actually happened, climaxing with a healing miracle to seal the deal, I finally decided Jesus really exists, really is God, really keeps His promises, and that I ought to give my life to Him. After 3 years of attempting to do that within the Protestant community, I discovered Eastern Orthodoxy. I am now in the process of converting.
Unfortunately, since my particular route involved a near-suicidal breakdown, a huge detour through a dangerous false religion, and testing God with prayers, which is somewhat in poor taste and probably only works if your heart is already shifted towards a genuine belief that could lead to repentance, I cannot recommend this route to anyone else. I have not yet found out whether there's a proper way to change an atheist's mind, that they would actually receive. I've tried to reason with several but they get stuck in infinite loops of circular reasoning, of which they claim it's my fault.
@@SimpleAmadeus Could you clarify what you mean in the last half of this last paragraph? I've been researching Orthodox Christianity for a couple of weeks and I know next to nothing about the conversion process.
@@jethro_bardot Hi there!
My personal problems are not really important or helpful for you! I think it's more helpful if I tell you about the "conversion process".
The first and most important thing to do, is to speak with a priest. It is their God-given responsibility to help Orthodox Christians, and also the people who want to become Orthodox Christians. The normal way to do this is to visit a Church service, and then talk to the priest afterwards, during coffee. The priest will mostly want to know who you are, and how you became interested in the Orthodox faith.
If possible, it can be helpful to contact the priest by phone or email before you go, so he will know that you are coming. Phone is best, some priests rarely check their mail. Oh, and keep in mind that we are right in the middle of the Great Lent, which is a very busy time for priests, so don't be discouraged if he can't give you his full attention and seems to have a lot of other things on his mind, because he does!
In order to become Orthodox, the most important thing is to then keep coming to Church services. If the priest sees that you are sincere, he will at some point tell you the steps to become an official catechumen. In my case, that meant writing a letter to the bishop to officially request to become a catechumen. When the bishop accepts, you will be made a Catechumen, with a short service of several prayers, during which you also swear an oath. Becoming a catechumen is quite a serious thing, so it should not be rushed. But do not let that frighten you. Just take the time that you need, while you become more familiar with the people in your parish and the Orthodox faith.
During a period of time you will learn, according to your efforts, how to live like an Orthodox Christian. Ideally, this period of time is at least a year. Some parishes (like mine) hold 3 years as the standard. But this is not set in stone. The priest ultimately decides how long you need. He will have to give an account to God Himself, after all. When the priest decides that you are ready, you will be baptised and chrismated, and usually receive your first communion. From that point onwards you will officially be an Orthodox Christian in Christ's holy Church.
I hope this helps. I hope you'll have an excellent day and journey! If you have any more questions about this, feel free to ask!
It's interesting to think about these things in light of the Younger Dryas cataclysm about 12,000 years ago and the antediluvian civilization. What was carried on through the cataclysm, and what was passed down in reference to it... There's soooo much more to human history than the past 6000 years that we're taught about.
Humans have played this game at least once and maybe even a couple times before; a conversation hear with a Christian Scientist who believes the pyramids in Egypt were a massive weapon ... ua-cam.com/video/lXNYIa-ZeRM/v-deo.html
Enoch is such a vital book! So glad you cover it in multiple videos, God bless and keep you Jonathan!
WOW!! PLEASE do more just like this... let's travel the entire Bible!!
1 Enoch is not in the Bible, and is often used by atheists and satanists to attempt to disprove the Authority of Christ
Jonathan, I completely agree with Bob Briggs. This is one of the most important and best episode do you have ever made. Well laid out.
Most of this is beyond my comprehension still…but I want to thank you, Jonathan, you got me closer to God. Attention🙏🏼 and patterns, it’s just amazing…thank you, I will keep listening and things do click. Thank you
Wow. Excellent presentation.
This concept of increasing in the world out of desire is something I continue to struggle with because being a student of geoscience, I see researchers going full steam ahead trying to pull back the mystery while showing little outward concern for contributing to the ever more massive pile of information that fewer and fewer people can understand. I don't even necessarily think they're wrong from a factual or scientific basis, just that in pursuing much of this work, there's this ever greater separation between them and everything else.
It doesn't help that, like Jonathan said about principalities or higher intelligences, the generation of this mountain of knowledge takes on a life of it's own as academia demands more and more research or the researcher will be cut off. Publish or perish...
To speak personally, I've always had the personality of mediator. Whenever someone raises a position, I often raise an opposite position to attempt to draw the conversation into the center. Or if there are already two polar positions, I attempt to generate a third meta-position capable of including the two original polar positions. Because of this nature, I can't help but want to find the mediating point between the research fringe and the center (if there is one).
You'd probably love the study of alchemy due to how your mind works, unless you feel it's wrong. My mind works like that too and alchemy has been of massive interest and an area of study over the years that has shifted everything for me.
Same personality
Meaning itself is is how they go together.
Same personality as well. Glad to hear I am not the only one.
I resonate so much with this comment. My background is in materials physics (semiconductors).
Question for you and the peanut gallery: do you have any stories on how Jonathan's perspective has enhanced yours? For example, I feel as though I hit the *flow* state, as Vervaeke puts it in his discussions on the Meaning Crisis, quite a bit now with this kind of stuff. Especially he and Dr. Peterson's most recent podcast together which goes into Snow White..
Thank you for your work Jonathan. You are one of the minds that helped me to see the world beyond materialism and regain my lost faith. Absolutely fascinating patterns you are discussing and be proud of your brother as his book is really magnificent.
Thank you Jonathan for this, I am grateful that I met, you only a month ago, and are able to support your kickstarter. Thank you again and all those you work with you, inspire you, and you loved ones
Wonderful lecture and immensely insightful. Thank you Jonathan.
Incredible! Thanks for all you do and share. You're a gift!
Great lecture and highly pertinent today.
I have been looking for clear minded biblical voices on this issue, thank you so much for discussing this
So thankful for your work Johnathan. Excellent, contextualizing video that is so needed right now.
This could well be your best video yet, so enlightening! Particularly once one realises that the cross is also technology, that opens up a world of awesome. So good, thank you Jonathan!
Everything created by humans is a form of technology, including the clothing on our backs and the shoes on our feet.
A decadent symbolist by the name of Jean Delville has a piece called God-man, which came to mind as you mentioned the calling of those to the angels to intercede.
The work you do is of great value, Jonathan. A very welcome visitor in one's home.
Johnathan, 👀🧠🤯!!
Your lectures consistently leave me in awe, Thank You!! 😊
Thank you Jonathan! Very insightful indeed. The verse "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians" 6:12 comes to mind. God bless you more!
... for to be carnally minded is Death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace " ( Romans 8:6)
The Cain and Abel story, though told in a fantastical way, at its core its about: two brothers working for their fathers, who is the landlord, Abel is in charge of the heards and Cain in charge of the crops. Abel is able to bring the meat and animal products to his father, but Cain's crops don't do well, Abel is seen as the obvious succesor, and Cain knows he will be a servant so he decides to kill Abel. Of course, Cain's crime comes to light, and his father disown him; thus losing the strength of the land. These father son stories were popular then (as now) we can see similarities with the "prodigal son" story.
The overlap with Dr. Michael Hester’s work is incredible.
Heiser* but yeah, I've trying to suggest to Dr. Heiser to bring Fr. De Young to his podcast, they wrote the same book in theme without interacting.
@@cristianfernandez1874 You mean "Religion of the Apostles" and "The unseen realm"?
@@corvinrick3644 yes the table of contents are almost a mirror of each other, obviously the content differs in a lot of points, but Heiser values theosis as the base of his theology like the orthodox do, it would be an awesome chat.
Connecting the dots...you do this so well. Blessings to you Johnathan.
between technical knowledge, and the relationship with... ~~angels....
cracks me up everytime the way you said that. this is my 3rd watch-through
If you do not properly pay for knowledge beforehand, you will certainly pay after.
The data remainder will come back to destroy the incomplete structure.
Thanks for a great talk! I especially appreciated the point of entities feeding on attention. This is the call to action aspect of this video, be careful which angels your attention is feeding.
Brilliant. I believe 2nd Peter also mentions the book of Enoch, talking about the angels who rebelled were imprisoned in Tartarus. Excellent breakdown of what breakdown and unnatural combination does to the world phenomenologically.
Enoch also mentioned/quoted in Jude
@@davegilbertson yea he says that in the video which is why I added the part he didn’t say. They definitely read it, that’s for sure
@@TheDonovanMcCormick was listening while driving and missed that portion. 👍
@@davegilbertson
DAVID WROTE:
" Enoch also mentioned/quoted in Jude "
This is a passage from the Book of Enoch that Jude is said to be quoting.
“Look, he comes with the myriads of his holy ones, to execute judgment on all, and to destroy all the wicked, and to convict all humanity for all the wicked deeds that they have done, and the proud and hard words that wicked sinners spoke against him.” 1 Enoch 1:9
There are a couple of things to point out here. First, some scholars insist that Jude was in fact quoting directly from the Book of Enoch, but other scholars dispute this. It’s pointed out, for example, that Jude never mentions a book or scroll of Enoch. He doesn’t mention what is written-only what is said or what Enoch said so rather than assuming that Jude quoted Enoch, scholars argue that Jude, and the Book of Enoch, are actually referencing the same oral tradition. In other words, Jude was not relying on the Enochic writings for this saying of Enoch. Jude, and the author of that particular passage in the Book of Enoch, were perhaps both relying on the widely held tradition of what the actual Enoch said. Even if Jude did directly quote from the Book of Enoch, there’s still no reason to suggest that the Book of Enoch is inspired or should be part of the Bible.
The Biblical authors quoted plenty of material that nobody would consider sacred or inspired of God. Semitic scholar, Dr. Michael Heiser puts this point quite well:
“Just as preachers today quote commentaries, journals, news periodicals, or even television shows to drive home or illustrate a point, so the biblical writers used external material to draw attention and make a statement. Paul quotes from pagan Greek poets. The psalmists and prophets borrow vocabulary and paraphrase material from ancient Egyptian, Mesopotamian, and Syrian literature. Jude quotes a book from the pseudepigrapha (ancient writings that falsely claim authorship by a biblical character). The people of biblical times knew the quoted material wasn’t inspired, but it had meaning for them and their audience.”
The same logic used to argue that we ought to view the Book of Enoch as inspired on the basis that it’s quoted in the Bible can also be applied to a Pagan poem. Look at what Paul is recorded to have said in the Book of Acts when addressing the Athenians in Acts, chapter 17:28.
For “in Him we live and move and have our being”; as even some of your own poets have said, “For we are indeed his offspring.”
These quotes are said to have come from Greek poets writing about Zeus. Paul took the quotes and applied them to the God of Israel. Obviously, it would be absurd to say that a pagan poem should be in the Bible just because an apostle quotes it so why should it be any different with the Book of Enoch?
Some might argue that the passage from Jude indicates that the quote from Enoch must be authentic since it says that Enoch prophesied, and it could certainly be argued that some of the original sayings of Enoch, like what Jude quoted, were preserved in the Book of Enoch. But, again, even if Jude quoted directly from the Book of Enoch, it still doesn’t follow that the entire Book of Enoch is inspired or true. It seems to suggest that the reasoning used to suggest that the Book of Enoch should be considered sacred Scripture is severely underwhelming. The Apostles didn’t view it that way. The smaller Jewish communities that followed the Book of Enoch didn’t view it that way either. There’s simply no reason that we should.
@@rickdavis2235 : [ *11:12] of the Quran are things which angels desire to look into, according to 1 Peter 1:12
So grateful for this channel. Thank you, Jonathan.
So very eye opening!!! Thank you! Will definitely watch this again as well as watching everything on the channel I have not seen.
Merci beaucoup Jonathan, ça m’aide tellement à mieux saisir ( the bible scripture ) ☺️
'It's not that these technologies are necessarily bad in themselves but that they came about through desire that leads to destruction.'
This is certainly a quote and concept to stew on. Many thanks for your contributions, I'll be watching more of your videos and lectures.
Genius. Thank you Jonathan. Now I understand JBP’s admiration and respect for you. Can’t wait to go through all of your content.
I will never get over that intro. ✨
For some reason I take issue with when people state that the Book of Enoch was written around 300-200BC, like this video states, around the 23:30 mark of the video. That is so frustrating! No, the book was NOT written then. A COPY of the book, which dated to that time period, was found in the Dead Sea scrolls. A COPY of a book of NOT when the book was written.
The oldest copy of the book of Genesis ever found is even younger than that COPY of the book of Enoch, yet I dont see the author of this video ever try to state that the book of Genesis was written around 200BC. Or any other old testament book for that matter, in which ALL OF THE OLDEST COPIES ever found of the old testament books are all YOUNGER than this COPY of the book of Enoch was.
The book of Enovh is not some synopsis of Genesis chapters 1:20. Which includes the beginning, the fall, the giants, the flood, etc.
It PREDATES all of that stuff.
Quit saying that the book was written in 300-200BC, seriously! Is literally not true.
The book of Jubilees, also found in the Dead Sea scrolls, literally states that Enoch wrote a book, and gave it to his son Methuselah, to preserve for the end times generation, and that Methuselah gave the book/books to Noah to preserve on the ark.
The book of Jubilees then says that Moses received these books on the Mointain of Sinai with God.
Which means the book of Enoch is TORAH, given to Moses, on Mt Sinai, like the other books of the law.
And fast forward to the book of 2nd Kings, which states that due to Israel's sin of idolatry, they got rid of at least one of the books of the law. And it was later reinstated to Israel when one of the priests found it amd started reading it.
Well, King Solomon said that what was once done will be done again, and that nothing new is under the sun.
Which means at least one book will be removed from Torah again, and need to be restored when discovered.
Sound like the book of Enoch to anyone? Sound like the book of Jubilees?
Some scholars estimate that Jesus quoted directly or indirectly from the book of Enoch at least 166 times. Which means Jesus was very familiar with this book, which 3 early church fathers wrote was GOD AUTHORIZED SCRIPTURE during the 2nd temple period. Iranaeus said it was later removed after the destruction of the 2nd temple. Just like Solomon predicted.
Josephus, a 1st century jewish historian, and pharasee priest in the 2nd temple before it was destroyed, wrote that the Jewish sect of the Essenes were the most learned in the scriptures of God, and were well respected for it. Well guess what, the Essenes maintained the library of scrolls in qumran Israel, which we now know as the Dead Sea scrolls. And sure enough, they believed the book of Enoch was God authorized and inspired scripture.
The people who desired to change the calendar knew that they could never succeed in doing so, without first eliminating the book of Enoch.
Incredible work, this blew my mind. Thank you.
Excellent exploration of how writings from 2,500 years ago, applies to our “modern” world! Thank you! God Bless 🙏
"The Watchers [fallen angels], then, are clearly celestial (nonhuman) beings whose actions are regarded not only as morally evil, but spiritually destructive. While human rebellion first appeared in Eden, it is the actions of the Watchers that served as a catalyst to spread wickedness among humanity like a spiritual contagion. They are held responsible for teaching humans a variety of things that engender lust, warfare, astrology, occult practices, etc."
Michael Heiser, Reversing Hermon: Enoch, the Watchers, and the Forgotten Mission of Jesus Christ
No, the original fallen angels had physical bodies, intermingled with human women, and their children were physical giants. Their spirits however, are celestial.
Astrology, the occult, spiritual science, etc., are NOT inherently 'wicked'. They are completely natural abilities inherent to who and what we are and our relationship with the world. People can use them for good or evil. To say they are wicked is like saying fire or magnetism are wicked.
@@firephilosopher7645 Not according to Deuteronomy 32 worldview...
@@CaspianKhazar Well I guess that settles it, then.
@@firephilosopher7645 You know, actually for some of us it does; if necromancy and attempts at divination through conjuring spirits are condemned, then yeah, that does settle it: don't mess around. I couldn't tell you how many testimonies I've read from or about people who did mess around, and became profoundly depressed and frightened.
An amazing talk Jonathan, I really love your hour + deep dives into certain things. This was one of the greatest, and a great addition to your series on Revelation, 666, and the Mark of Cain. You, and Peterson, and Vervaeke, and Rolland could certain found a school of some sort. "Classical Symbolic, Psycho-theraputic, School of Ancient Religion" or something. lol.
I am additionally very curious if you ever considered doing a talk on the lives of Saints? I would love to hear you break down symbolism in the lives of Saints, particularly modern Saints like Saint Paisios of the Holy Mountain, Saint Prophyrios of Athens, or even Saint Nectarios of Agina.
Furthermore, thank you for this work. You give me understanding and hope. As a city set on a hill cannot hide its light, so your prophetic wisdom shines onto us all. DON'T LET IT GO TO YOUR HEAD! GLORY TO GOD!
This was totaly awesome. Thank you Jonathan.
Thanks again, Jonathan. Illuminating.
I see a nice analogy there between Adam and Eve eating the fruits from the trees in the Garden (bar one...) before the fall, and then eating the herbs of the land after it. It mirrors people going from hunter-gatherer to agriculture. From a natural order to a man-made one.
I always assumed the nephalim were the Demi gods (demons) described in Greek mythology. Zeus loved to come down and mate with mortals.
In Greek mythology, if I remember right, Europa escaped Zeus, who wanted to seduce her taking a form of a bull. She fled north - today Europa is an interchangable term for the offspring of Japhet, the indoeuropean, white race, which through the Roman Empire became Christendom and the bull was one of the idols of Baal.
Absolutely fascinating. Expanding the metaphor of the garments and also the extension of the fall was truly illuminating. Made it so clear how human desire is the true seed of his fall. I love your work but this video in particular I found intensely illuminating. Thank you.
i am absolutely in love with that intro.
"If one were to ask a modern Christian, “Why is the world and all humanity so thoroughly wicked?” the chances are very high that an answer of “the Fall” would be forthcoming. We have been conditioned by church history (ancient and modern) to look only to Genesis 3 for such theology. But if you asked a Jew living in the Second Temple Period the same question, the answer would be dramatically different. Yes, the entrance of sin into God’s good world occurred in Eden, but the unanimous testimony of Second Temple Judaism is that the Watchers are to blame for the proliferation of evil on the earth. The New Testament writers, being predominantly Jewish and products of the Second Temple Period, more often than not telegraphed the same outlook. We just can’t see it because, frankly, we don’t have Second Temple Jewish eyes. We miss what the original audience would have seen."
Michael Heiser, Reversing Hermon: Enoch, the Watchers, and the Forgotten Mission of Jesus Christ
Jews in antiquity and today don’t believe in a fall of man per se. The traditional Jewish belief is basically that Adam and Eve made a trade, they gave up paradise and accepted things like pain, hunger, childbirth and death in exchange for knowledge, the ability to reason and free will.
@@JohnJohnson-fl2fr Leaving Jews today aside as their current beliefs evolved in many ways in the last couple of thousand years, I am not sure I agree with your statement. Jews of the Second Temple period believed that in addition to the fall of humanity in Adam there were angelic falls (more than one) as well which contributed to the overall depravity.
Many thanks for this talk Jonathan, it's an important subject. Would love to hear you have a conversation with Michael Heiser on this topic as it would be of great benefit to your audience. Best wishes and regards.
That would be amazing
Michael Heiser’s books and podcast has been absolutely life changing for me! I agree, he is a wealth of knowledge.
Thanks for the kind replies. Much appreciated. I'd love to also recommend the ICONIC podcast too. They're relatively new but are well presented and researched. They're influenced by Heiser and weave much of his theology into current events. Best regards and God bless.
Mike is fighting cancer right now. Please pray for him…
There aren’t just physical bodies, but mental bodies, also containing ego with will to want and to have.. this is now, we have arrived.. wow, takes my breathe away.. I was thinking this morning about what sound catechesis means? 🧐 And there you were! Many thanks for your praiseworthy work!
This truly is a great talk. Thank You.
I hope You do well.
This whole nephelim business and ritualistic copulation made me think of Tartakovsky’s Primal and the episode with the witches that would sacrifice men to this ghost woman silhouette that would beget one of their own. It was clearly sexual, but not erotic in the slightest, and very much alluding to the preternatural use of the human body for creating these demigods. The guy has some impressive understanding of pattern.
Pattern pattern pattern pattern pattern pattern pattern…
(I’ts a meme)
i have a crazy story about trying to fins a copy of this book. So many years ago my local library had this book but they never had it in stock, it was always booked out. Anyway move on a few years im back at the library reading some graphic novels and i look up, there at the end of the table i was at...is the Book Of Enoch, inside was no reference tab or anything. I take it to the cusotmer service part and they tell me it doesnt belong to the library, i asked if i could take it and they said sure. Long story short...it was a spooky thing!
That reminds me of a similar experience, not quite as nifty as yours but still unusual. I was "beginning to read the Fathers" (name of a book) and moved to a little town in the upper Midwest to take up a job teaching freshman composition. I was given an office. There were a few books left on the shelves by who knows who and who knows when.... you guessed it, a number of old clothbound copies of various Fathers such as Irenaeus and Cyprian. No name in them. They were from a church school that, it seems, had closed a while back. Now this college where I was teaching had no religious studies courses and never had had them, as far as I know. To this day I have no "explanation." But they were an encouraging find.
@@dalenelson8254 : that reminds me of the movie natural born killers, which never had a rerun:)
This is brilliant Jonathan. Huge numbers of dots being joined here. Much to think about. Thanks for it.
This is great. Thank you for doing this, Jonathan.
Just got done with watching Jamie Dyer’s episode on the book of Enoch 🤯
Would you recommend it?
@@christopher_ecclestone I would but it’s more “informal” for lack of a better term 😅 they dabble in the book and share their opinions on it but it’s still very interesting. Look up her channel under Jamie Hanshaw and you’ll find it
@@sarinadonnelly7457 I'll check it out. Thanks for the recommendation 🙏
The HBO series “Raised by Wolves” has drawn many comparisons to the book of Enoch. It is an episodic science fiction series on HBO now two seasons in. I would be extremely interested on your interpretation of the show.
Good show.
@@mullcrumthesage6303 what is it about?
@@Dr_Diaz Androids that raise humans on an alien world so they can be Atheists free from the totalitarian religious regime on Earth. SCI FI.very good.
@@mullcrumthesage6303 lmaooooo
Eternals as well
Amazing job,thank you so much for your work! We would be thankful to have more of this lecture-type videos!
I have listened to your video several times and learned new things every time...
I wrote a cosmic horror book called Agassiz, and in the research I learned about the glacial Lake Agassiz in the northern midwest. It actually emptied about 9000 years ago and carved the MN River in a matter of minutes. It was, unquestionably, an apocalypse.
This was happening all over the world as the glacial patterns shifted about 11 to 9 thousand years ago.
Is it any coincidence that all these ancient traditions have their own versions of The Flood? It blows my mind still that modern archaeology considers this kind of stuff as "ancient aliens" bs when it's such a streamlined series of stories and patterns.
Great video as always, Jonathan.
This is epic Jonathan, most descriptions of Enoch are bordering on kooky, but this, this is really sophisticated and makes sense.
Thank You for introducing into this tradition.
Honestly my mind kept wandering to images when hearing to this video. I understood it, but I might have to give it a second watch later just in case there were any holes in my thinking and conceptualizing through it. Remembering what Jonathan said about not going crazy while reading his brothers book. I’ve been watching A Kernel from the Catacombs videos on “The Language of Creation”, and my mind is going wild😦 anyone have the same experience?
Yea you need to find someone to talk to you have too much seed. Or you might go crazy or get close to it like I did lol
Or just be simple but that's hard
You’re not going crazy, it’s just the feeling of synapses firing, as a whole bunch of things connect in your mind. Same thing going on with me and I’m 3/4 of the way through Mathieu’s TLoC. 😃
Just finished my 4th time through LoC ( and starting on the 5th. ) Each read through I am picking up more. Sometimes it is good to be simple.
@@oekmama more like going un-crazy
Lots of great stuff in this video, Jonathan, but I think you or Bret are a little off around 1:01:00 when it comes to nuclear power. As far as I know, all modern nuclear power plants, or at least the ones in the West, are designed to be safe in the event of a power loss. The problem is with events like at Fukushima where power loss *accompanies* another catastrophic event. In the case of Fukushima, power was lost due to the tsunami, and while there were backup diesel generators intended to prevent overheating, they had been flooded by the one-in-a-thousand-years event, and were non-operational.
It doesn't take away from your overall point (though there could be discussion about how our attention is drawn in events like this - why did we obsess over the man-made Fukushima, in which nobody died due to radiation, but essentially ignore that the accident was only caused because of an act of God that killed tens of thousands?), but I just don't want you worrying that a simple power outage in the U.S. or Canada would result in a nuclear meltdown :)
Chaos doesn't respond to neat little probabilistic ramblings like "one-in-a-thousand" that so many arrogantly engineers like to espouse.
Sometimes I lamented going into physics instead of engineering, but after a while, I started encountering so many insanely arrogant, and yet utterly ignorant and untalented engineers that I am glad I didn't.
That's not to disparage engineering as a profession - it merely seems to attract the arrogant to the highest degree, for whatever reason. Though, perhaps that makes more sense after watching this video.
@@hellomate639 I’m not sure I totally understand your comment, but I don’t think the problem is arrogance, at least not in the way that you outline it. Designs and limitations are what they are. The fundamental question is one of attention.
We straddle a world between humanism and post-humanism where we are very loathe to admit when we don’t have agency. We don’t want to think that we were just unlucky. A pre-humanist frame would ascribe an event as an act of God, perhaps even as punishment for our transgressions. In the humanist frame we tend to focus our attention on perceived design flaws; that is, we are not living up to the human ideal. The post-humanist frame might find a way to ascribe it to climate change; in other words, a more abstract “god” is angry at us.
So what is my ultimate point? I guess I don’t buy that the story of Fukushima is any kind of indictment on nuclear power, per se, as much as it’s an indictment on our belief that we can have a perfectly safe technology. Accidents and the incredibly unlikely will always happen. God will find a way to humble us, like the Tower of Babel.
I think it’s important to understand the restoration of all things as well with this so you don’t fall into fear about the the transformation the world is going through. Unfortunately we’ve been sold a doom and gloom eschatology and Hell doctrine that the early church fathers did not have. I think it’s also very important to know the actual meaning of the word “judgement” that was used. It’s original meaning that was later translated to seem harsh and punitive. I would recommend Mike Parsons for great education of the restoration of all things and understanding of original texts that were often mistranslated in most of the English versions of the Bible we now have.
What a fantastic & beautiful commentary on one of the greatest spiritual books ever written.Ty. xo
25:00 Never thought of it that way, but it makes tons of sense. It immediately reminded me of the tantric tradition in the east but more so of the Greek mysteries, specifically the Dionisian mysteries were the diety takes over the initiate in a ritualized setting.
Edit:
As a Christian, I dont endorse it, it's academic, but at the same time it can be perceived as sympathetic and can be read as a "how-to manuel" but there's a very interesting book called "Mystai" by Peter Mark Adam's that is about decoding the frescos in the hidden room of "Villa of the Mysteries" just outside of Pompeii, and gives some potential insight about what took place during an initiatory event revolving around the Dionisian mysteries, which sounds a lot what is described here.
In Herodotus there are descriptions of this kind of practices.
Empty the cup... Fill up the cup...
HI Jonathan. Great video - so helpful in terms of providing a symbollic interpretive framework for where we are at present. Re Musk, while I was watching this I couldn't help think of his star link project and how we are throwing up a shield of satellites, which are like the powers, visible form below, yet these merely reflect us back at ourselves by providing the internet wherever we are. Anything 'Above' is removed form view, in much the same way that in cities, streetlights obscure the heavenly lights.
Totally... The wall around the city, is now the wall around the planet... We can't go much further than that...
That was incredible! My mind was blown open!
Now the secret is to figure out how to put the info into reality to stop was appears to be about to happen in our world. Not sure we can but I see now where prayer, believe and faith in God can do its magic!
Thank you! Thank you, Thank you
One of your very best!
Thank you.
Thank you for sharing this profound, extremely interesting lecture.
I had an a-ha moment when Jonathan talked about the recurring Pattern of technology acquired (through the fall of angels) by men turning against the men themselves.
The very same technology started to have a life/intelligence of its own and, inevitably, became out of control. Nuclear weapons are a prime example of that. The nuclear arms race has slowed down only on surface because governments still hold on to them. No nuclear country wants to disarm completely, because at this point, it has become clear that whoever gets rid of their nuclear weapon first, is seen as the weaker country that will lose the war. And so, every nuclear country clutches their nuclear weapon with death grip even if they KNOW full well and HAVE SEEN how horrifyingly easy can the world and humanity be wiped out just like in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This destructive desire for more power in form of nuclear weapons by countries that leads to people fighting each other with a chance of wiping out humanity is the same thing as nephilims/giants (read technology acquired through the fall of angels) becoming so big and out of contol that they start devouring all resourses created by men and ultimately the men themselves. And in the case of giants, the God's judgement was to pit those destructive giants against each other so that they would devour/kill each other due to their natural tendency to constantly fight.
Nuclear bombs are a lie.
Is the relationship between angels and technology similar to the mythologization of alchemy?
Ding ding ding...
Best spent hour in a long time. Glad I’ve found your channel.
This is one of the most important videos in the channel, Jonathan. Thanks for sharing this with us.
It was impossible not to think of Attack on Titan (Japanese Anime) and its relation to the biblical narrative on this topic.
God bless you.
Cheers from Chile!
Could it b possible that 'angels' are now manifested in our world in the form of optical fibre which 'channels' their information to us via the www? Information transforms us, one way or another. The plot has always been the same but in reality we are so close to giving life to the beast because we have sunk lower and lower... but is always about energy, electricity and magnetism. Its deep. Cant explain sufficiently... even to myself.
Great topic Jonathan and as you can guess it was right up my alley.
I couldn't help to get the feeling that the garments of skin somehow takes on a mind/life of it's own and wants to evolve and circumscribe us or even swallow us.
Or am I off here.
This is absolutely mind blowing. Thank you so much
It's amazing that the Mennonite and Amish may agree with your thoughts. Very valuable video. Thank you.
The movie "Noah" from 2014 did a very good job at telling this story, even though it received a lot of criticism.
More people need to be talking about that movie...
The Fountain talks about the Eucharist in a unique way too. Aronafsky knows what's up...
Enoch should be canon
Lol, I was watching a playthrough of El Shaddai: Ascension of the Metatron a few days ago. Its making a lot of sense.
It is in the Ethiopian Tradition.
Disney trilogy shouldn't be canon.
Amazing! Connects a lot of dots I've been struggling to make sense of for a long time now
Excellent video! I’ve got to watch it again just to absorb more.
Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on Kaczynski's "Technological Slavery" (or "Industrial Society and Its Future") and contrast it with the concepts about technology you presented here.
Surprising to see someone name checking uncle Ted
"The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race..."
Yes please! One of the most prescient intellectual works of our time. Ted was a genious, it's really too bad about the whole bombing thing.
@@theAshesofDecember1 good ol Tncle Ued
We were allowed to eat the fruit from the Tree of Life, before we ate the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil.