Love a bit of Legal Corner. Forgive me if this has already been covered, but have you discussed with Andrew, local council's insistence on surfacing country roads with gravel and their responsibility to make sure they're safe for motorcyclists?
@@FortyFourTeeth IMO that could be a video in itself, and a campaign of some kind off the back of it. It's more dangerous than mud, leaves etc because it can be invisible. Also given it's done by the council, not a local farmer so there's a duty of care angle if you ask me.
Excellent point Smokey. Dangerous in so many ways. It's all well and good sticking 20mph signs out but that doesn't stop everyone else passing you at 60 and firing shrapnel into your throat. BTW, nice to see the correct use of their & they're there.
Al, what horses need is the anti-wheelie electronics to eliminate the Ferrari look😆 Excellent legal advice c/o 44Teeth & White Dalton especially with case history, although it looks like you literally backed Andrew into a corner in the workshop yet again! 😎
That is really helpful and good to know. I once had a tank slapper on a muddy lane in Gloucestershire, luckily I managed to hold on to my Super Dream 250, but I’d always thought about who would be liable if I had fallen off. Anyway all that I could’ve claimed for would’ve been a pair of soiled 1979 thunder crackers from M+S and a rather dull motorcycle 😐
Fucking hate the lazy road resurfacing bullshit they’re doing it everywhere. It’s properly dangerous… Guess I’ll have to collect some if I ever come off. 🤦♂️
Good advice as always from White Dalton. I used them a few years ago when some donk did a blind U turn out of a queue I was filtering past and knocked me off. They did me proud, definitely recommended.
Great video very informative, thanks for this… I have a question about loose chippings. (The bane of motorcyclists lives) When they put this shite down on the road and it isn’t bedded in and all gets swept to one area would you have a case if you came off on it. Obviously would collect a sample on video at the time and location. Great to know the bit about the mud on road from building sites too. Keep up the good work👍 oh and ONLY 20 days to go until BBB… i’ve got to take the missus out on the day so hoping she chooses something small to eat 🤣🤣🤣
Like the man says "if you're driving countryside roads expect countryside hazards". I'm a biker who lives in a rural area. I also drove milk tankers on those B roads for a good few years. It was job and knock so we didn't hang around, particularly at night when you can see traffic from some distance. I didn't have a head on in all those years. Plus I met horses, cattle, sheep, tractors, combines, both at work in the truck and on my bike. It's simply about your speed on blind corners, plus your speed when there's shit on the road. If you leave yourself time to stop you're good to go. If not you're royally fucked! By the way "the Devon reverse" is a thing. You just want to get on your way again as quickly as possible.
Love the information guys as always, are you going to discuss the new highway codes that have recently been implemented ? I think they are going to cause some issues going forward that’s for sure.
What a informative video. Mr. Dalton provided easily.understood recourse for motorcycle riders involved in offs/crashes and was able to concisely give answers to whether the rider would be at fault or a second party. I live in a county in the US where there is great deal of agriculture and during the field prep and growing season the secondary roads (B roads in the UK) do have quite a bit of mud and shit deposited. If I were to have an off because hitting the mud/shit I would be, shit out of luck! I would probably end up with a traffic citation, To Fast for Conditions, a busted bike and if I was banged up would be responsible for any medical care. Very interesting view of what it is like for y'all across the pond in dealing with such matters. 44T FTW! Cheers!
The law regarding 'shit left on the road' is most applicable to farmers leaving mud all over the road when they should be cleaning up after them self's.
You've got to pester the police and farmers, I did it many year ago because the roads ended up covered in packed down mud, especially when they were harvesting sugarbeet. It started with you live in the countryside and should expect it, I explained I don't expect the roads to be pristine, but do expect to actually see the tarmac, finally the farmers started using sweeper attachments. The roads are dirty, but I am actually riding on tarmac.
There are 49 new updates to the Highway Code. Rule 163 sets out new passing distances for different users, rule 213 allows horse riders on narrow lanes to ride in the centre of the lane. just show respect for all road users and if you want to hoon around a blind corner flat out McGuinness style, book a track day, less chance you’ll need an air ambulance 🏍💨
"Well I'm just doing my civic duty as a responsible motorist" is what I often end up telling the person on the end of my 999 call to the police, to report debris in the road. I've reported lumps of old timber, sand, gravel, sacks full of clothes. The police then report it to the council who, due to it being reported through 999, have to deal with it as a matter of urgency. Police will ask if you spilt it, hence the opening sentence above.
I am here as a subscribed bike nut who loves this channel. I am also here as a land owner and somebody who witnesses daily a well publicised road in most Best Biking Roads of Britain publications in the A44 into Mid Wales. Our farm was redesigned so no farm machinery now has to use a public Road ever with a loop road system around the fields. Sadly though our access road to and from the A44 is a cut across route for a local quarry who regularly spill gravel is also subject to our neighbours ploughing with hill was and tyre debris issues. We also see horse riders up and down the road with quite a few access points up to the higher ground. Sadly though we do get about five to ten fatalities a year from bikers and easily five to ten times that amount where the rider thankfully escapes with minor or no injuries. The point of my post being sadly a lot of bikers do not help themselves and their speed is a major contributor to the accidents. I have noted down the years cases where riders have been caught doing three figure speeds along the New Radnor straight. You can't really argue such a case but the limit is sixty for a reason and to be fair cars exceed this limit to but very rarely do they become involved in incidents it sadly tends to be the bikes. Good advice from the guy. Think safe and think of what may be ahead. Good post Jason.
I live in the sticks, when I see a horse or group of horses if I'm going in the same direction I will pull the clutch and coast by with the engine running idle, if the horses are heading towards me, I'll more often than not pull over and turn the engine off and wait for them to pass. I've seen a horse rear up and the rider fall off on a public road before now and it's no joke.
Don’t live in your country but still watch these law episodes all the way through. Probably because some of it is applicable to laws here but mostly just find it entertaining. Thank you
As a rider of both horses and motorcycles , passing a horse(s) way to slowly is also a serious risk if the horse is frightened of the bike, pass carefully and get the hell out of there , the longer the horse can see you the more likely it is there will be a problem. My horse deals with motorcycles just fine , but pedal bikes are the bringers of death.
Frankly when I see a horse on a narrow lane riding towards me, I pull well over, turn the bike off and wait. Otherwise I'll often just turn around and go the other way. I do NOT fuck about with horses on narrow lanes - I've seen too many horses getting randomly spooked by the stupidest things to trust them on the road.
Living in Wales in the Black Mountains, the thing that terrifies me both cycling and motorcycling around the beautiful lanes are tractors. Some are as big as artics, tanking along, very often driven by a 16 year old kid. One slip either way and you're literally squashed under those 8ft high wheels. Hit a braking car at a closing impact speed of say 20 mph you have a chance, but your history if the young lad looks down at his Instagram.
Fairly new here, loving the variety of videos. Did I see some early clips in this episode of roads in SE Asia? I like the challenge of driving UK country roads, but those roads in Nam are next level craziness. Looking forward to some more 125cc enduro.
I’ve ridden in VN many times, Hanoi/SGN city roads are a different experience to trunk routes where three lorries are heading towards you on a 2 lane road and country roads where you come around the corner to find it washed away. Keeps you alert for sure 🤣👍
My wife has a horse, knowing the type of characters that have horses on diy livery yards, when you encounter two horses riding side by side on the road, yes the inner horse is likely more nervous, but of more concern is the complacency of the riders, they will be chatting rather than concentrating on the road. It is scandalous that there is no mandatory skills test, insurance and high visibility gear requirement for horse riders on the road, they visibly disappear into hedgerow backgrounds in low light, spook at the slightest thing and crap all over the place. In a society with a culture of risk adversity and assessment, this is astonishing, i mean it’s impossible but it’s almost as if the rich and powerful have a vested interested.
Exactly why when my daughter or wife goes out hacking they wear hi vis vests, riding helmet and go pro recording all the time as the amount of ballbags that drive on past and don't slow down is unreal!
Always interesting hearing this kind of stuff in comparison to US. Especially since it can vary by State, City, and County. Are there regional variations within England as well?
Solid advice even for us Riders in the USA. I ride in the Arkansas Ozarks. I've encountered farm machinery many times. Usually they are courteous and let you pass. I've been blasting through a set of curves and come upon flocks of sheep just meanindering on the road. I've nearly met doom at the hooves of a rather large Bull Elk and his harem as they descended a hillside on their way to grazing land ( who knew they climbed hills!!!). Or the time I dodged a good half-mile of cattle droppings on the road. Although my FTR Rally still has the stock exhaust, I still slow down if coming up on a group of houses out in the country. No need to piss off people. Oh, and some of the backroads also have dogs that sleep in the middle of the freaking road...and they give you a rueful look...and won't even get up!
Regarding speed limits: in Germany there is a paragraph stating you must always adjust your driving to the road and weather circumstances. So if you crash whilst not exceeding the speed limit but with inappropriate speed for the current situation and road, you can still be fined. Makes sense and gives drivers more responsibility. Or if you drive more than 130 km/h on ze Autobahn in a no limit zone and you crash and it's not even your fault, you might be made liable by a certain percentage.
Having used White Doulton successfully and being a fan of 44teeth it’s a great insight into the legality and liability or road users. Can you have a discussion on the legality of the ever annoying Peloton on our roads!
I remember a lad at school hit a tractor pulling back out onto road on a rs125 at lunchtime one day at school flat out round a corner on back road Was toast
Where do the council tile with potholes? On one hand they are obviously liable for the road surface (such as the gravel that constitutes the road in this video). On the other, I’m sure they would argue the “should expect it as it’s a road and you should be able to stop once you see something”. This would not only apply to country roads but all - a pothole can be catastrophic if on a corner, but also potentially a very costly repair if it buckles a wheel etc - not always avoidable in a safe manner. I’m not sure the council would immediately just pay up when you send them the invoice!
What about when the road has been 'surface dressed' , here in Dumfries and Galloway entire roads are just covered by gravel that is left to fill in the holes (I assume at least) . You have to ride in the 1 foot wide bits on either side cleared by cars? Ask your man about that.
If the farmer put ups signs, and just leaves it be for however long it takes before it rains and takes care of it self... Well fair enough he is punished. But if he is working on the field, and know he is going to get over it again and spread more in a few hours. I think its fair he sets upsigns, and wait with cleaning till he is done. (I don't know if they actually clean after themself) But if that the case, I think its fair enough for the farmer to say "Hey I am working here, I set up signs, the guy should have slowed down". I say this a motorcycklist, and lets not pretend we can't get passed it perfectly safe, as long as we slow down and be carefull, and the signage has been put up properly.
Re farmers dumping mud on roads. I have 5 farms within a mile of where I live. They cover the lanes with mud every year. I've always said they should be made clean it up. But common sense tells me to expect this type of stuff. Get a lot of horses round my way, on my noisey bike i kill the engine and roll past. One thing is what about salting roads making them slippery? Obviously you take it easy, I've been doing this long enough to feel road conditions. Very useful info.
I live in nz, I live rural and love hooning through both the road I live on and other rural roads but your mentality definately does need to shift to account to the potential dangers that those roads often have.
You need some form of escapism from that loon running your country, Juicy Hardon or whatever she`s called. An advertisement for 24/7 face nappy wearing if ever I saw one.
@@rattusnorvegicus4380 it was good but she's taken it waaaay too far now. I mean come on the moment the vaccine hit it should have been over and done with but now we're one step away from full lockdown again and NOBODY knows why because it's not bad at all here atm. So I'll take my few wheelies and knee drags in return for her stupid rules thank you very much 🤣
i came off my first motorbike because of mud on the road. no signs or warnings, just after a sharp bend. i had no time to react. i won the case... would rather have not come off in the first place.
I once rode home from work around a bend I ride every day twice. It is a very open bend in the middle of a field, there are 60 mph allowed, but going 60 through this corner is quite fast. I've done 75 there before, but that's about the limit, knee down and everything. Most cars go about 50 there. That day I was going just about 60, no cars infront of me, and suddenly, in the middle of the bend I realize, that the roadworkers had renewed the two feet of gravel on the inside of the corner because some cars had taken the bend a bit tight and mad a bit of a rud. They must have put the gravel there some time during the day, and immidiately some cars must have dragged the gravel onto the road, where it obviously collected in the middle of the lane. Also, no signs were put up. So there I was, coming quite fast around a bend, but within the speedlimit, finding my front tire on a thick patch of gravel, car coming ahead on the outside. Luckily I was on the outside edge of the patch and the tire slipped off it right onto clean tarmack. Then the rear wheel followed. Had the most brutal tankslapper of my life, balls hurting severly afterwards and everything. If I had chosen my line differently by probably two inches, I would probably be dead now. Another rider died in that corner the same way, only that he just overdid it in the rain instead of sliding off on some gravel.
The information about the gravel hurts deep, I came off from gravel from a pothole. I had videos, location, samples and got turned away from the council. If only I knew the right person to contact :(
@@Koldsmith The Council always play dumb and ignore folk unless you owe them money. I received a court summons from them and pointed out that due process had not been followed, that there had been a total disconnect between two depts. Case dropped and court charge of over £60 removed. Same Council had their legal counsel living next door to a businesswoman friend of mine. There was a dispute over land and when my friend went to archives, all documentation had mysteriously disappeared.
Two things learned over the years, the road is not a race track and ride to the conditions. If you can avoid the first part, having a collision, you don’t need the second part, legal advice, take responsibility for your actions first.
Are we really having to have a discussion about what to do when approaching a horse on a rural road. Always ride to the conditions and be able to stop within the distance you see to be clear on your side of the road.
If only I'd watched this in 1986, when my mates and I were pelting around the lanes of Somerset on our "tuned" 50's. We'd probably have just carried on as usual though. Teenagers, eh?
My dad has some larger trees in his back garden which overhang a single carriageway, branch fell off one and smashed a car window - he was liable for it - lucky has land insurance but had no idea that could be the case
What about the shit that entirely covers some country roads when they've been covered? Sometimes it's laid so thick that it's barely possible for even a pretty talented rider to hold the bike upright on! So there's bound to be a few out there that have had a spill on it
@@Cloverleaf7642 of course, just a peeve about the car test. Cannot I just say out loud "I'm aware it's 60, but no one is behind me and I'd rather go 40" because that's applicable everywhere, right? I don't drive 30 where I live between the cars, because 20 feels safe and 30 feels like I'm asking for trouble. Yet, the advice to me was "drive the speed limit".
Good point. I did my test in 2001 and the requirement was to "maintain the flow of traffic" and reach the speed limit promptly wherever safe and practical, but ensuring I could stop in the distance seen to be clear. Failing to do this, I was warned, would count against me on the test by demonstrating a lack of awareness and disrupting traffic. I guess they leave it up to you to judge WHEN it's safe to aim for the speed limit or not.
If conditions are good and visibility is good then you should drive to the speed limit. This is about country lanes, which by nature tend to have poor visibility and poor road surfaces, so it's reasonable to go under the speed limit. On my bike test, I got a minor for not making progress because I didn't filter through a gap past queuing right turning traffic, so that I could make a left ahead. So I basically got marked down for not filtering 😁
Here's one to ask about. Traffic lights at night that default to red for "Traffic and speed control" purposes... shouldn't they be equipped to see motorcycles too? Many a night i have had to WAIT for a larger vehicle to approach behind or opposite myself in order for the lights to see and change to green. Who is responsible for that and why are we motorcyclists not considered? Oh i have once also had to shut the bike down and walk it across it.
My dad rides a horse in Epping forest.. and loud bikes has made it bolt (whilst in forest not on road) a few times and throw him off. once his horse ran across the road without him on it, and hit a car that had stopped.. my dad was liable on that.
Great video, always curse coming round a corner to be met with dragged muck on the roads from fields. Thought the farmer would never be held liable or else they'd clean it up as building sites are suppose to, so glad to hear otherwise. These legal corner videos are almost a must watch for any biker to help protect themselves.
A lot of the gravel I see on the road appears after a heavy rain. But who’s responsible for clearing it up to prevent bike slip accidents, local council ?
They did this to Dartmoor, it went from a 60 to 40 zone. I can see why they did it ...we get horses, sheep, walkers, cyclists and golfers wandering across the roads and numerous motorcycle deaths. Only an idiot would try to do 60+ up there anyways tbh.
Think your “horse wheelie” comment is on the money, at least in Spain. I remember seeing banners strung across the road from Montmelo to the Catalonia Moto GP circuit banning riders from performing “Caballitos”, literally little horses. Evidently none of the riders hooning up and down the road spoke Spanish as there was much wheelying taking place.
remember having the double negative of riding down a road covered in gravel from re surfacing and having a sheep escape a field and jump into the road in front of me. Luckily avoided it
Jerry S lived across the road from a stable in Salhouse. One day enough was enough and he went into the street with a bucket and spade. After a few minutes the pale was full, he then marched into the stable office and upended the horse shit all over the desk. Remarkably the stable decided to use a tractor sweeper every day after that and as luck would have went out of business not long after. For some reason horse riders are conditioned to believe that horse shit is better than dog shit, or maybe its just their superior attitude is worth more.
Don’t forget the law changes in regard to hierarchy of vulnerability this week, so be even more careful around them or you’ll be hammered harder. Sweet middle class girl on a pony? I live on a farm with a stables in the Black Country and the girls here use language a Hells Angel would blush at lol Good advice, thanks.
How can they have no duty to pick up horse muck but can also be liable if it causes an accident? But only if they know who did it. Like saying driving drunk is ok unless you hit someone.
Great video, but you could have chosen a better venue. I am thinking chairs or at least seats, beverages, a bit of comfort. Thumbs up anyway for Andrew. He is the man.
With the gravel thing, if the gravel was from a driveway, is the owner of the property then responsible? There's a fair few roads near me where there's gravel right in the center of each side of road, the rest having been cleared by car wheels. And it's clearly obvious it's from the driveway of someone's house.
My daughter rides a horse and a close-passing van (down a narrow street with parked cars) was damaged by her horse that was spooked by it. As expected her insurance ended paying up. I completely disagree with the guidance in this video.
As a man who has plenty of horse owners and lovers in his familiy and as friends, I know that many many people don't train their horses nearly well enough to be used as transportation on a public road. So I just pull the clutch in when I see one or shift up, so my full akra system doesn't encourage the horse to try and kill its rider/owner. And my bike is 100% road legal. Still too loud for some......Greetings from Germany where we seem to follow UK Health and Safety madness with a few years of delay......
I'm a cyclist, a horse rider, and a runner. I use the road everyday in some way and I've not had any issues with motorcyclists at all. Most give us space because they understand our horses can think and the even the best can react particularly if you come up behind horses. I'm not a middle class 15 Yr old girl but instead a 30 (something) woman whose decided to have a go at fitting into all the hated groups she possibly can.
Al - over here by the Beacons (or the Brecons as some might say 🙄) we have farm animals that escape onto roads and animals that belong to people that graze common land and stray onto unfenced roads within the Common land. Where does the responsibility lie? In the former case any farm animals that have escaped not on common land it would seem to be the farmer has the liability. Common land / grazing accidents though? We can take it easy but the sheep, cattle, horses can bolt across at any time and at night or in fog they’re a nightMARE. They can also reverse into you and knock you off. No sheep gags necessary.
Hit a deer 12years ago and still paying. Even mountain biking I pay extra consideration to the animal and the possibility of the rider could be flicked off if spooked. It's along way from sat on to broken ribs or worse.
Useful video. What would the situation be if the council had put "Failed Road Surface" signs up? Clearly our responsibility to moderate speed but you could still have an off at 15 mph causing thousands of pounds worth of damage to your brand new M1000rr
Yes what the case with the 'top dressing' local councils choose to do instead of proper asphalt/tarmac?? Its the worst - loose gravel all over the road. Ive hit it in Galoway forest unexpectedly, and my local roads too! Really dangerous stuff!
there's a roundabout near me which is about half a mile from a gravel quarry and you'll never guess what's always there. they brim the trucks and then scream round there in the morning (witnessed first hand a couple of times) and what must be 200 kilos of gravel falls straight over the edge and covers the road. normally it all gets pushed to the side by traffic over time but I can very easily see a biker going down who doesn't know the area or use that roundabout on a daily basis. it wouldn't even be hard to prove. sit on the side of the road for a couple of early mornings and ill bet you can get video evidence of it happening.
You need to pester the local police, don't get fobbed off, as the police might not want to get involved. Loads should be sheeted and not loaded so high they can come off, if the quarry is so close they're going to struggle to deny its from them, its not only the driver who is responsible, they are also responsible for making sure loads leaving their quarry are secure.
I don't even live in the UK but I'm still going to watch it because it's 44T.
Agreed, I’m in Virginia in the U.S. haha
Same here
I don't even know what a UK is but I'm still here watching from America
Love a bit of Legal Corner. Forgive me if this has already been covered, but have you discussed with Andrew, local council's insistence on surfacing country roads with gravel and their responsibility to make sure they're safe for motorcyclists?
Not yet but a future topic, for sure Nige
@@FortyFourTeeth IMO that could be a video in itself, and a campaign of some kind off the back of it. It's more dangerous than mud, leaves etc because it can be invisible. Also given it's done by the council, not a local farmer so there's a duty of care angle if you ask me.
The first thing I thought of. They do it far too much around my area, drives me up the wall.
Excellent point Smokey. Dangerous in so many ways. It's all well and good sticking 20mph signs out but that doesn't stop everyone else passing you at 60 and firing shrapnel into your throat. BTW, nice to see the correct use of their & they're there.
Al, what horses need is the anti-wheelie electronics to eliminate the Ferrari look😆
Excellent legal advice c/o 44Teeth & White Dalton especially with case history, although it looks like you literally backed Andrew into a corner in the workshop yet again! 😎
You mean a wheelie limiter...
That is really helpful and good to know. I once had a tank slapper on a muddy lane in Gloucestershire, luckily I managed to hold on to my Super Dream 250, but I’d always thought about who would be liable if I had fallen off. Anyway all that I could’ve claimed for would’ve been a pair of soiled 1979 thunder crackers from M+S and a rather dull motorcycle 😐
Fucking hate the lazy road resurfacing bullshit they’re doing it everywhere. It’s properly dangerous…
Guess I’ll have to collect some if I ever come off. 🤦♂️
Good advice as always from White Dalton. I used them a few years ago when some donk did a blind U turn out of a queue I was filtering past and knocked me off. They did me proud, definitely recommended.
Great video very informative, thanks for this… I have a question about loose chippings. (The bane of motorcyclists lives) When they put this shite down on the road and it isn’t bedded in and all gets swept to one area would you have a case if you came off on it. Obviously would collect a sample on video at the time and location. Great to know the bit about the mud on road from building sites too. Keep up the good work👍 oh and ONLY 20 days to go until BBB… i’ve got to take the missus out on the day so hoping she chooses something small to eat 🤣🤣🤣
Like the man says "if you're driving countryside roads expect countryside hazards".
I'm a biker who lives in a rural area. I also drove milk tankers on those B roads for a good few years. It was job and knock so we didn't hang around, particularly at night when you can see traffic from some distance. I didn't have a head on in all those years. Plus I met horses, cattle, sheep, tractors, combines, both at work in the truck and on my bike.
It's simply about your speed on blind corners, plus your speed when there's shit on the road.
If you leave yourself time to stop you're good to go.
If not you're royally fucked!
By the way "the Devon reverse" is a thing. You just want to get on your way again as quickly as possible.
Exactly, What you can see, what you can't see, and what you can reasonably expect to see.
Love the information guys as always, are you going to discuss the new highway codes that have recently been implemented ? I think they are going to cause some issues going forward that’s for sure.
What a informative video. Mr. Dalton provided easily.understood recourse for motorcycle riders involved in offs/crashes and was able to concisely give answers to whether the rider would be at fault or a second party.
I live in a county in the US where there is great deal of agriculture and during the field prep and growing season the secondary roads (B roads in the UK) do have quite a bit of mud and shit deposited. If I were to have an off because hitting the mud/shit I would be, shit out of luck! I would probably end up with a traffic citation, To Fast for Conditions, a busted bike and if I was banged up would be responsible for any medical care.
Very interesting view of what it is like for y'all across the pond in dealing with such matters. 44T FTW!
Cheers!
This is great to know. I live around alot of farms and get pissed of with all the mud left on the roads..Great stuff.
12:18 A combine harvester doing 70 towards me is my new unreasonable fear, now. Thanks, chaps...
The law regarding 'shit left on the road' is most applicable to farmers leaving mud all over the road when they should be cleaning up after them self's.
You've got to pester the police and farmers, I did it many year ago because the roads ended up covered in packed down mud, especially when they were harvesting sugarbeet.
It started with you live in the countryside and should expect it, I explained I don't expect the roads to be pristine, but do expect to actually see the tarmac, finally the farmers started using sweeper attachments. The roads are dirty, but I am actually riding on tarmac.
There are 49 new updates to the Highway Code. Rule 163 sets out new passing distances for different users, rule 213 allows horse riders on narrow lanes to ride in the centre of the lane. just show respect for all road users and if you want to hoon around a blind corner flat out McGuinness style, book a track day, less chance you’ll need an air ambulance 🏍💨
Never thought I’d hear so much about horses. Really sorts out the neigh- sayers
"Well I'm just doing my civic duty as a responsible motorist" is what I often end up telling the person on the end of my 999 call to the police, to report debris in the road. I've reported lumps of old timber, sand, gravel, sacks full of clothes. The police then report it to the council who, due to it being reported through 999, have to deal with it as a matter of urgency.
Police will ask if you spilt it, hence the opening sentence above.
I am here as a subscribed bike nut who loves this channel. I am also here as a land owner and somebody who witnesses daily a well publicised road in most Best Biking Roads of Britain publications in the A44 into Mid Wales. Our farm was redesigned so no farm machinery now has to use a public Road ever with a loop road system around the fields. Sadly though our access road to and from the A44 is a cut across route for a local quarry who regularly spill gravel is also subject to our neighbours ploughing with hill was and tyre debris issues. We also see horse riders up and down the road with quite a few access points up to the higher ground. Sadly though we do get about five to ten fatalities a year from bikers and easily five to ten times that amount where the rider thankfully escapes with minor or no injuries. The point of my post being sadly a lot of bikers do not help themselves and their speed is a major contributor to the accidents. I have noted down the years cases where riders have been caught doing three figure speeds along the New Radnor straight. You can't really argue such a case but the limit is sixty for a reason and to be fair cars exceed this limit to but very rarely do they become involved in incidents it sadly tends to be the bikes. Good advice from the guy. Think safe and think of what may be ahead. Good post Jason.
Oh and you should get Lamb Chop to watch this.
Legal Corner is a superb series of videos. Informative but still entertaining.
I live in the sticks, when I see a horse or group of horses if I'm going in the same direction I will pull the clutch and coast by with the engine running idle, if the horses are heading towards me, I'll more often than not pull over and turn the engine off and wait for them to pass. I've seen a horse rear up and the rider fall off on a public road before now and it's no joke.
Loved that Teams background, looked just like an old shed.... Can you get him back and ask about pot holes?
Don’t live in your country but still watch these law episodes all the way through. Probably because some of it is applicable to laws here but mostly just find it entertaining. Thank you
Has anyone noticed that Al is looking rather chiselled of late? Looking good, Al, I hope it’s not a tapeworm 👍💪💪💪
Beards - Makeup for men since 1000BC
@@disaffectedmale 😂💪
As a rider of both horses and motorcycles , passing a horse(s) way to slowly is also a serious risk if the horse is frightened of the bike, pass carefully and get the hell out of there , the longer the horse can see you the more likely it is there will be a problem.
My horse deals with motorcycles just fine , but pedal bikes are the bringers of death.
Frankly when I see a horse on a narrow lane riding towards me, I pull well over, turn the bike off and wait. Otherwise I'll often just turn around and go the other way. I do NOT fuck about with horses on narrow lanes - I've seen too many horses getting randomly spooked by the stupidest things to trust them on the road.
This is one reason I wear a GoPro. Undeniable evidence.
Living in Wales in the Black Mountains, the thing that terrifies me both cycling and motorcycling around the beautiful lanes are tractors. Some are as big as artics, tanking along, very often driven by a 16 year old kid. One slip either way and you're literally squashed under those 8ft high wheels. Hit a braking car at a closing impact speed of say 20 mph you have a chance, but your history if the young lad looks down at his Instagram.
Pheasants always
I watch these style of 44 teeth vids with the sound off and enjoy watching Statham faking his “I’m listening” face.
Fairly new here, loving the variety of videos. Did I see some early clips in this episode of roads in SE Asia? I like the challenge of driving UK country roads, but those roads in Nam are next level craziness. Looking forward to some more 125cc enduro.
I’ve ridden in VN many times, Hanoi/SGN city roads are a different experience to trunk routes where three lorries are heading towards you on a 2 lane road and country roads where you come around the corner to find it washed away. Keeps you alert for sure 🤣👍
@@ianjames3078 and the rest, some of potholes in VN would be classified as tank traps in the UK 😆
Another great vid, cheers! I feel like with all these it's about knowing what you need to do on the day. Record it, sample it, call Mr. Dalton.
what about those roads where they just sling down tar and cover it with loose chippings?
Set up a windscreen replacement van in the layby?
Please keep doing these. This guy is brilliant.
Interesting stuff. I always assumed that farmers were covered by the slippery or mud sign.
Good interesting stuff, Andrew explained things well. Well done.
Good to see these videos back 👍
My wife has a horse, knowing the type of characters that have horses on diy livery yards, when you encounter two horses riding side by side on the road, yes the inner horse is likely more nervous, but of more concern is the complacency of the riders, they will be chatting rather than concentrating on the road.
It is scandalous that there is no mandatory skills test, insurance and high visibility gear requirement for horse riders on the road, they visibly disappear into hedgerow backgrounds in low light, spook at the slightest thing and crap all over the place.
In a society with a culture of risk adversity and assessment, this is astonishing, i mean it’s impossible but it’s almost as if the rich and powerful have a vested interested.
Exactly why when my daughter or wife goes out hacking they wear hi vis vests, riding helmet and go pro recording all the time as the amount of ballbags that drive on past and don't slow down is unreal!
Always interesting hearing this kind of stuff in comparison to US. Especially since it can vary by State, City, and County.
Are there regional variations within England as well?
Excellent advice as always
Solid advice even for us Riders in the USA. I ride in the Arkansas Ozarks. I've encountered farm machinery many times. Usually they are courteous and let you pass. I've been blasting through a set of curves and come upon flocks of sheep just meanindering on the road. I've nearly met doom at the hooves of a rather large Bull Elk and his harem as they descended a hillside on their way to grazing land ( who knew they climbed hills!!!). Or the time I dodged a good half-mile of cattle droppings on the road. Although my FTR Rally still has the stock exhaust, I still slow down if coming up on a group of houses out in the country. No need to piss off people. Oh, and some of the backroads also have dogs that sleep in the middle of the freaking road...and they give you a rueful look...and won't even get up!
These videos are great, simple straight to the point and brilliant!
Regarding speed limits: in Germany there is a paragraph stating you must always adjust your driving to the road and weather circumstances. So if you crash whilst not exceeding the speed limit but with inappropriate speed for the current situation and road, you can still be fined. Makes sense and gives drivers more responsibility.
Or if you drive more than 130 km/h on ze Autobahn in a no limit zone and you crash and it's not even your fault, you might be made liable by a certain percentage.
Having used White Doulton successfully and being a fan of 44teeth it’s a great insight into the legality and liability or road users.
Can you have a discussion on the legality of the ever annoying Peloton on our roads!
I remember a lad at school hit a tractor pulling back out onto road on a rs125 at lunchtime one day at school flat out round a corner on back road
Was toast
Where do the council tile with potholes? On one hand they are obviously liable for the road surface (such as the gravel that constitutes the road in this video). On the other, I’m sure they would argue the “should expect it as it’s a road and you should be able to stop once you see something”. This would not only apply to country roads but all - a pothole can be catastrophic if on a corner, but also potentially a very costly repair if it buckles a wheel etc - not always avoidable in a safe manner. I’m not sure the council would immediately just pay up when you send them the invoice!
What about when the road has been 'surface dressed' , here in Dumfries and Galloway entire roads are just covered by gravel that is left to fill in the holes (I assume at least) . You have to ride in the 1 foot wide bits on either side cleared by cars? Ask your man about that.
They used to sweep it up in Sussex. Started leaving it all behind to get flicked off the road. Fucking dangerous, and invisible at night
Always interesting to see someone who knows what he is talking about
If the farmer put ups signs, and just leaves it be for however long it takes before it rains and takes care of it self... Well fair enough he is punished. But if he is working on the field, and know he is going to get over it again and spread more in a few hours. I think its fair he sets upsigns, and wait with cleaning till he is done. (I don't know if they actually clean after themself)
But if that the case, I think its fair enough for the farmer to say "Hey I am working here, I set up signs, the guy should have slowed down".
I say this a motorcycklist, and lets not pretend we can't get passed it perfectly safe, as long as we slow down and be carefull, and the signage has been put up properly.
Some really good advice, just a shame potholes didn't get a mention, as they seem to be everywhere these days
Nice one! “If we can prove who put the mud on the road we’re home and dry”……..or not 😜
The reason I have chicken strips, looking out for foreseeable hazards 😀
Pauses video, rewinds….. yep, he said it, Horse wheelie 😆😆😆 amazing!
Re farmers dumping mud on roads. I have 5 farms within a mile of where I live. They cover the lanes with mud every year. I've always said they should be made clean it up. But common sense tells me to expect this type of stuff. Get a lot of horses round my way, on my noisey bike i kill the engine and roll past. One thing is what about salting roads making them slippery? Obviously you take it easy, I've been doing this long enough to feel road conditions. Very useful info.
I live in nz, I live rural and love hooning through both the road I live on and other rural roads but your mentality definately does need to shift to account to the potential dangers that those roads often have.
You need some form of escapism from that loon running your country, Juicy Hardon or whatever she`s called. An advertisement for 24/7 face nappy wearing if ever I saw one.
@@rattusnorvegicus4380 it was good but she's taken it waaaay too far now. I mean come on the moment the vaccine hit it should have been over and done with but now we're one step away from full lockdown again and NOBODY knows why because it's not bad at all here atm. So I'll take my few wheelies and knee drags in return for her stupid rules thank you very much 🤣
Always interesting to listen to what this bloke has to say. Good stuff as usual!
44 Teeth should try riding horses, it's hilarious and like moto-crossing on something that's alive
i came off my first motorbike because of mud on the road. no signs or warnings, just after a sharp bend. i had no time to react. i won the case... would rather have not come off in the first place.
That was good , every day a leaning day good to know about the gravel ,,as in Suffolk here lots of those roads where they just tar and spread .....
I once rode home from work around a bend I ride every day twice. It is a very open bend in the middle of a field, there are 60 mph allowed, but going 60 through this corner is quite fast. I've done 75 there before, but that's about the limit, knee down and everything. Most cars go about 50 there. That day I was going just about 60, no cars infront of me, and suddenly, in the middle of the bend I realize, that the roadworkers had renewed the two feet of gravel on the inside of the corner because some cars had taken the bend a bit tight and mad a bit of a rud. They must have put the gravel there some time during the day, and immidiately some cars must have dragged the gravel onto the road, where it obviously collected in the middle of the lane. Also, no signs were put up. So there I was, coming quite fast around a bend, but within the speedlimit, finding my front tire on a thick patch of gravel, car coming ahead on the outside. Luckily I was on the outside edge of the patch and the tire slipped off it right onto clean tarmack. Then the rear wheel followed. Had the most brutal tankslapper of my life, balls hurting severly afterwards and everything. If I had chosen my line differently by probably two inches, I would probably be dead now. Another rider died in that corner the same way, only that he just overdid it in the rain instead of sliding off on some gravel.
Horse wheelie......superb Nigel.
The information about the gravel hurts deep, I came off from gravel from a pothole. I had videos, location, samples and got turned away from the council. If only I knew the right person to contact :(
Ahhh shit. Sorry to hear that
Aye the council will ignore Mr. Joe Public writing letters and making phone calls but they won't ignore a legal advisor like White Dalton.
@@Koldsmith The Council always play dumb and ignore folk unless you owe them money. I received a court summons from them and pointed out that due process had not been followed, that there had been a total disconnect between two depts. Case dropped and court charge of over £60 removed.
Same Council had their legal counsel living next door to a businesswoman friend of mine. There was a dispute over land and when my friend went to archives, all documentation had mysteriously disappeared.
Two things learned over the years, the road is not a race track and ride to the conditions.
If you can avoid the first part, having a collision, you don’t need the second part, legal advice, take responsibility for your actions first.
Are we really having to have a discussion about what to do when approaching a horse on a rural road. Always ride to the conditions and be able to stop within the distance you see to be clear on your side of the road.
If only I'd watched this in 1986, when my mates and I were pelting around the lanes of Somerset on our "tuned" 50's. We'd probably have just carried on as usual though. Teenagers, eh?
My dad has some larger trees in his back garden which overhang a single carriageway, branch fell off one and smashed a car window - he was liable for it - lucky has land insurance but had no idea that could be the case
What about the shit that entirely covers some country roads when they've been covered? Sometimes it's laid so thick that it's barely possible for even a pretty talented rider to hold the bike upright on! So there's bound to be a few out there that have had a spill on it
Speed limits aren't a target? Yet in my car test I had to drive the speed limit else I'd fail for holding everyone up... :)
Could the difference be that the advice given here is related to country roads?
@@Cloverleaf7642 of course, just a peeve about the car test. Cannot I just say out loud "I'm aware it's 60, but no one is behind me and I'd rather go 40" because that's applicable everywhere, right? I don't drive 30 where I live between the cars, because 20 feels safe and 30 feels like I'm asking for trouble. Yet, the advice to me was "drive the speed limit".
@@loztagain8278 I see where you're coming from on this.
Good point. I did my test in 2001 and the requirement was to "maintain the flow of traffic" and reach the speed limit promptly wherever safe and practical, but ensuring I could stop in the distance seen to be clear. Failing to do this, I was warned, would count against me on the test by demonstrating a lack of awareness and disrupting traffic. I guess they leave it up to you to judge WHEN it's safe to aim for the speed limit or not.
If conditions are good and visibility is good then you should drive to the speed limit. This is about country lanes, which by nature tend to have poor visibility and poor road surfaces, so it's reasonable to go under the speed limit.
On my bike test, I got a minor for not making progress because I didn't filter through a gap past queuing right turning traffic, so that I could make a left ahead. So I basically got marked down for not filtering 😁
love these videos, there always a great watch
Awesome, awesome video.
Here's one to ask about. Traffic lights at night that default to red for "Traffic and speed control" purposes... shouldn't they be equipped to see motorcycles too? Many a night i have had to WAIT for a larger vehicle to approach behind or opposite myself in order for the lights to see and change to green. Who is responsible for that and why are we motorcyclists not considered? Oh i have once also had to shut the bike down and walk it across it.
My dad rides a horse in Epping forest.. and loud bikes has made it bolt (whilst in forest not on road) a few times and throw him off. once his horse ran across the road without him on it, and hit a car that had stopped.. my dad was liable on that.
Great video, always curse coming round a corner to be met with dragged muck on the roads from fields. Thought the farmer would never be held liable or else they'd clean it up as building sites are suppose to, so glad to hear otherwise.
These legal corner videos are almost a must watch for any biker to help protect themselves.
A lot of the gravel I see on the road appears after a heavy rain. But who’s responsible for clearing it up to prevent bike slip accidents, local council ?
Really interesting thanks for sharing 👍
They did this to Dartmoor, it went from a 60 to 40 zone.
I can see why they did it ...we get horses, sheep, walkers, cyclists and golfers wandering across the roads and numerous motorcycle deaths.
Only an idiot would try to do 60+ up there anyways tbh.
..... when you accidentally dump the clutch on Desert Orchid and the front end comes up ..... HORSE WHEELIE!!!!!!
😂
Think your “horse wheelie” comment is on the money, at least in Spain. I remember seeing banners strung across the road from Montmelo to the Catalonia Moto GP circuit banning riders from performing “Caballitos”, literally little horses. Evidently none of the riders hooning up and down the road spoke Spanish as there was much wheelying taking place.
remember having the double negative of riding down a road covered in gravel from re surfacing and having a sheep escape a field and jump into the road in front of me. Luckily avoided it
All good info!, but was anyone else worrying about the aerosol only half on the shelf behind Andrew’s head??!
Greetings from Maui. We've got great weather, great twisties and spare bikes! Come on out and ride Haleakala hwy! Seriously! Not even kidding.
Jerry S lived across the road from a stable in Salhouse. One day enough was enough and he went into the street with a bucket and spade. After a few minutes the pale was full, he then marched into the stable office and upended the horse shit all over the desk. Remarkably the stable decided to use a tractor sweeper every day after that and as luck would have went out of business not long after. For some reason horse riders are conditioned to believe that horse shit is better than dog shit, or maybe its just their superior attitude is worth more.
Looking trim Mr Fagan, keep up the good work 👍
Some quality b-roll dropped into this video...
Love these vids 👌👌 keep them coming 👌👌
Don’t forget the law changes in regard to hierarchy of vulnerability this week, so be even more careful around them or you’ll be hammered harder.
Sweet middle class girl on a pony? I live on a farm with a stables in the Black Country and the girls here use language a Hells Angel would blush at lol
Good advice, thanks.
How can they have no duty to pick up horse muck but can also be liable if it causes an accident? But only if they know who did it. Like saying driving drunk is ok unless you hit someone.
Great video, but you could have chosen a better venue. I am thinking chairs or at least seats, beverages, a bit of comfort. Thumbs up anyway for Andrew. He is the man.
What about horses riding loud bikes?
With the gravel thing, if the gravel was from a driveway, is the owner of the property then responsible?
There's a fair few roads near me where there's gravel right in the center of each side of road, the rest having been cleared by car wheels. And it's clearly obvious it's from the driveway of someone's house.
My daughter rides a horse and a close-passing van (down a narrow street with parked cars) was damaged by her horse that was spooked by it. As expected her insurance ended paying up. I completely disagree with the guidance in this video.
As a man who has plenty of horse owners and lovers in his familiy and as friends, I know that many many people don't train their horses nearly well enough to be used as transportation on a public road. So I just pull the clutch in when I see one or shift up, so my full akra system doesn't encourage the horse to try and kill its rider/owner. And my bike is 100% road legal. Still too loud for some......Greetings from Germany where we seem to follow UK Health and Safety madness with a few years of delay......
I'm a cyclist, a horse rider, and a runner. I use the road everyday in some way and I've not had any issues with motorcyclists at all. Most give us space because they understand our horses can think and the even the best can react particularly if you come up behind horses.
I'm not a middle class 15 Yr old girl but instead a 30 (something) woman whose decided to have a go at fitting into all the hated groups she possibly can.
Excellent video, in the mane
Love this series
Al - over here by the Beacons (or the Brecons as some might say 🙄) we have farm animals that escape onto roads and animals that belong to people that graze common land and stray onto unfenced roads within the Common land.
Where does the responsibility lie? In the former case any farm animals that have escaped not on common land it would seem to be the farmer has the liability. Common land / grazing accidents though? We can take it easy but the sheep, cattle, horses can bolt across at any time and at night or in fog they’re a nightMARE. They can also reverse into you and knock you off.
No sheep gags necessary.
Hit a deer 12years ago and still paying. Even mountain biking I pay extra consideration to the animal and the possibility of the rider could be flicked off if spooked. It's along way from sat on to broken ribs or worse.
Useful video. What would the situation be if the council had put "Failed Road Surface" signs up? Clearly our responsibility to moderate speed but you could still have an off at 15 mph causing thousands of pounds worth of damage to your brand new M1000rr
Yes what the case with the 'top dressing' local councils choose to do instead of proper asphalt/tarmac?? Its the worst - loose gravel all over the road. Ive hit it in Galoway forest unexpectedly, and my local roads too! Really dangerous stuff!
He's back! Good old saliva man.
I'm only messing! He was obviously a tad nervous on camera. White Dalton are a great company.
there's a roundabout near me which is about half a mile from a gravel quarry and you'll never guess what's always there.
they brim the trucks and then scream round there in the morning (witnessed first hand a couple of times) and what must be 200 kilos of gravel falls straight over the edge and covers the road.
normally it all gets pushed to the side by traffic over time but I can very easily see a biker going down who doesn't know the area or use that roundabout on a daily basis.
it wouldn't even be hard to prove. sit on the side of the road for a couple of early mornings and ill bet you can get video evidence of it happening.
You need to pester the local police, don't get fobbed off, as the police might not want to get involved.
Loads should be sheeted and not loaded so high they can come off, if the quarry is so close they're going to struggle to deny its from them, its not only the driver who is responsible, they are also responsible for making sure loads leaving their quarry are secure.
Horse wheelie ? 😂. Love it Nige. 👍
very informative video guys!