honestly web dev is such a cancer that everyone thought that computers are born no execute a V8 engine and nothing more. Studying math is such a pleasure too, I don't know why CS degrees just stop at calculus + discrete math + automata theory, there is so much more math way more important to computer science and they just decide to not teach it lol
@@CaarabaloneDZN it depends on where you're doing your degree. Here in Europe I haven't even done discrete maths, just real analysis and linear algebra
@@jorgemellsI live in Europe and i've done all the things the first guy said (calculus, discrete math, automata) and a few more. Seems just like a Country ir even University thing.
I agree there seems to be no solution though when people go into a field they actually like and still end up working at McDonald’s and complaining on TikTok.
My advice to any young programmers right now: if you want to get hired by tech, you need to COMPETE with tech. Make an app that does ONE thing better than facebook, ONE thing better than twitter. Either the apps will start making money, or your competition will hire you. Also remember that in addition to learning "coding," you need to learn technology/computers in general. Not much point in spending all that time learning how to _tell computers what to do_ when you don't even _know what they are capabale of_ EDIT: This advice is more for "young adults" who like need money to live. If you are in highschool focus on school
@@johndank2209 Buddy I said an app that does ONE thing better. Even if you can't beat them at scalable infrastructure, you can beat them at the DESIGN level. Many people think there are parts of facebook that are badly designed. Nail THOSE parts in your app, allow the rest to be bare minimum, and congratulations you are now competing on the free market
This just isn't realistic for most new graduates, many of the ideas you'll end up coming up with are either in some ticket at a big company or you'll end up executing it in a really mediocre way.
don't worry about the internship - just work on personal projects and don't compare yourself to others - I was the slowest to complete every project for the first two years and by the end I was the fastest - turns out everyone was cheating
@@ForwardFacingManny I mean, it's a good thing that the slowdown is happening now, when you don't need to get a job. Chances are, things will be better by the time you graduate, because this industry is pretty speculative and swings back and forth, especially when you're talking about startups and other non-established companies. I'm finishing up my degree now, and I still really like CS. I like solving problems and delving deep into the way it all works at a lower level. I'll be graduating into a bad job market, but the skills a CS degree gives you isn't just "writing code", it's an understanding of computer architecture and math theory that makes you at least semi-employable in many tech industries. So I'm not going to be that fatalistic about my job prospects.
@@ForwardFacingMannyI think it would be nice if you did more "fun" type projects. You know, somthing you would program to have fun so that it would reawaken your love for programming. I feel like most projects in college are very rote and boring in nature and they often end up making people think they don't like programming because of that.
The tech industry like so many others in our dysfunctional economy goes through boom and bust cycles, you're just in the valley now. The peak will come later and you better be prepared to capitalize on it.
I had a classmate who was very talented. He could get best grades with very little effort. He went into CS only because of money but had no interest in coding. He ended up failing the courses and as a result got dropped out of university because even though with his talent and ability exam preparation would have taken him like just few hours, he didn't even have that much of motivation.
Technology is a good area, but there isn't any area in which you can easily get a high paying job, they are high paying jobs because very few people have the skill to do them.
This may just pass man. I decided that I hated coding after taking a gnarly operating systems class in my junior year, but now that I’m out of school I actually love it again and have way more patience for it. I think being stressed out with a grade held over your head can make you hate anything. Also, I managed to get hired as a junior SWE in 2023 and I was about as average as student as you can get. Probably had a lot of luck involved, but it’s doable man. The apocalyptic shit you see people saying on Reddit probably isn’t the best sample to base reality on.
"I decided that I hated coding after taking a gnarly operating systems class in my junior year, but now that I’m out of school I actually love it again and have way more patience for it." I can definitely relate to that. I have a CS degree and absolutely hated programming at times in university, but have recently been thinking about getting back into it after not really touching it for several years. I miss having an outlet for that sort of logical problem solving and it would be cool to build small programs to automate shit in my life.
@@flanself9361 FYI, if you decide to do it I’d highly recommend using the shit out of chat GPT. Just giving it your ideas and asking it to outline how you can accomplish them is insanely useful and makes it a lot more approachable. Im sure most of us don’t have the time to spend hours researching which frameworks to use and it will save you from that
For those making the argument of "you shouod choose what you really like or what you're good at" needs to understand most people that chose cs chose it because of money. Money legit lets us live. Its not someone's fault to fall down that path when they were told they would earn a high paying job.
i think thats pretty obvious. the reason why people say this is because its harder to succeed at something you don't enjoy. you'd be more prone to burn outs and etc. especially if you're not already good at the thing you want to choose. i think the reason why a lot of people say this specifically about cs degrees is because cs is difficult, lol. its not something most people can just push through if they genuinely don't enjoy it. i mean, if you're doing it for the money and you can keep the motivation just with that, that's cool, but im sure that's difficult for most people so it's always advised to choose things you like / are good at.
Thanks for sharing your journey. I'm built for programming, and I hate that people who are neither competent, passionate, or even happy hogs the job market because some ahole billionaires kickstarted the "learn to code meme". That's mean and pretentious, but a considerable chunk of my time is being wasted in cleaning up after peoples who doesn't enjoy their job and can't keep the pace. I see it everyday; lots of ppl like you who fell into the sunk cost fallacy and got their degrees, but are clearly miserables. Dont do that. You deserve better. You deserve happiness.You deserve to feel competent and useful. That's more valuable than money.
As a person who recently graduated and landed a job I also had the similar feeling of "market sucks, ill never get a job" especially during 3rd and 4th year of college. There are a ton of jobs that only partially related to programming itself like sysadmins, team leads and such. The reason why everyone tells you to "learn to code" specifically is because it's much easier to sell a half assed python programming course for normies than a cisco certification course
This is literally me; a sophomore going into my junior year of college. It feels like I have a wall of 4 years of stuff to do but I’m already two years into my degree and I can’t turn back now. I wish I knew even just 2 years ago what I know now. Hoping for the best for us all regardless!
Then u would realize how much u could actually have learned on ur own instead of some kinda pointless classes during ur time in college, sometimes u r just better off learning on ur own but u kinda still need that paper to get higher chances of getting hired nowadays.
I find a lot of the concepts from computer science to be interesting but if we're talking actual work with data and project management, I don't really see myself in that field forever. A good message to anyone would be is that the field you're competent at isn't necessarily the field you'd enjoy making an entire living with.
I'm almost graduating and I can relate, I know I'm not going to pursue a career even though I really like Java, it's not something I see myself doing in the future... I like this type of video, keep doing it!!
Rookie mistake was going for coding instead of trying out studying computer repairs. It's problem solving too, but instead of typing something and straining your eyes at white text on a black background (I hope so) looking for a semicolon, you desolder a bad component (or just replace the board as a whole) or install a driver after searching for it on the Internet. Occasionally, you only just have to do maintenance work on your client's pc, install Libreoffice or Adobe Reader, or just assist with hooking up the client's laptop to a television set.
The sad part is that this isn’t the ideal world where you can survive doing what you want. Most jobs that pay well are either too hard for people or will make you miserable. Most jobs that are fun and aren’t just STEM or some obvious money making field…don’t make you a lot of money. Being a teacher is…horrible. Having a shop is…horrible. Society forces you to pick miserable jobs as you NEED to be miserable to be alive in this economy.
I started coding at 9 and I still code cuz I love coding, I just turned 15 and I like coding on low level programming languages... tbh, couldn't love coding more, I just like building stuff that can help me or just fun little games so, I guess I'll stick to programming for now
@@ForwardFacingManny real. i still think about what my could have been if i had a "special ability"/hobby/started doing something as a kid... damm. I still don't know were my life is headed
Dude, calm down and keep trying. Your expectations don't line up with reality. The people that you're talking with that make you feel worthless... 80-80% are either straight up lying, or they're massively exaggerating to you. A very few are wunderkinds that really are walking the talk. This entire notion that people need to be sprinting through uni and right into a high paying job is non-sense. It doesn't even work that way.
@@ForwardFacingManny I've been in the industry for 25 years and run an apprenticeship style program for my company to get people trained on things we want... I have to keep everyone's expectations aligned. It is something I still have to manage for myself. When you see things on social media, everyone is showing off their success and rarely are they sharing the reality of their challenges (even when they highlight some).
Here's a stark reality check: you aren't getting a degree in software development, you are getting a degree in computer science. If you aren't interested in learning the science behind computing and just want to land a job, quit your degree and start learning for the job. You will save a lot of money and be much more practically ready for your first job than the majority of fresh candidates with a bachelors degree and no actual practical skills
I completely resonate with this video and I absolutely love it because it shows a harsh truth! I personally went through this situation in 2022-20203. I did one year of college, full of frustrations, after which I gave up, and this year I stayed at home so I could prepare for the med school exam. Keep going only if you feel that this will make you happy because I know people who finished college, worked as programmers for 1-2 years and then re-profiled on something they loved
It really depends. I dont code all the time, but literally most of my life is computers. These are some of the areas I like: coding, software architecture, maths, doing computer builds, soldering, electronics, AI, cybersec, etc... When I get tired of an area I go to another and switch back and forth because my passion truly is computer science. This is how vast this field is. I do software engineering to put bread on the table, and believe it or not, besides entry/junior level jobs, coding will not be the challenging part of it.
Do what you're good at, don't give up just because it gets hard. Every day you learn something new, you will have pushed the needle a little more towards success. You will distinguish yourself not by being a "child prodigy" but by putting in the leg work. The fact that our industry changes so rapidly is the great equalizer. I've seen people with decades more experience than me have to unlearn crappy patterns, while I got to embrace best practices the first time.
i was trying to find a major, i wanted a computer related one, i was gonna go technician but it feels like i have learned a decent amount that i dont think its needed, kept searching until finally found Computer science, im still happy with my decision so far :P
Yeah ! I totally feel you. I just graduated with my computer science degree and couldn't land a job so, here i am, I just finished my first semester of university .
i got into computer systems engineering, same as you i don't like coding but i like the finished thingy working. tbh the process is soul crushing but the skill that you develop is something special
there is room in this industry for people who aren't necessarily "genius" but can at least translate peoples ideas into some piece of software or service at a reasonable price...it's just very messy cause there are so many fakers and clients are incredibly distrusting for being burned several times by the cheapest contractors they could find....when they actually decide to cough up some cash, you are getting the lumpiest/bumpiest end of the stick!
I personally find the hours of staring at code trying to figure out what's wrong to be really interesting and engaging and a fun problem solving activity. I agree with your analysis. If you don't love coding, you shouldn't do it.
The path to misery and depression… Our teachers always told us, every product needs to be finished by yesterday. I never really understood the implications of this mentality on my health and wellbeing until I lived through it. I like computers and tinkering with stuff as a hobby, never again as a job. Right now, I teach computer science in elementary and high school, which is a different beast of its own. But I love the collaboration, the discussion, the human interaction in general, and that I feel I can do a lot more right now, make a difference and I live it.
Personally, I'm not very passionate about technology myself, but I got into it because it pays well. I just look at it realistically and economically. The majority of people are never going to do what they want to do or what they're passionate about and still be able to secure a comfortable living with that solely. It's nice if you can enjoy your work, but I feel it's ultimately irrelevant if you do not. Most don't go to work to have fun but to do a job. I don't work in this field because I love it, but because I learned to be good at it and it pays well. Beats being a starving writer/artist just because that's what I enjoy. Any consolation, I do think you have to go for something you do not hate that is also lucrative, but that's about it.
Hah, you know what is worse? Graduating and realizing that even if you get a job, it would be in some company that has some old legacy software that needs to be maintained, because the same people that graduated with no passion decided to stop learning and just maintain what they have, with the rare occasional updates where something always goes wrong, because they themselves have no clue what they are doing, but they are passionately doing it.
Usable versatile skills don't pay the bills, they rid you of them, better to not rely on some abstract math and luck of fortune to keep your family alive
I graduated with CS degree in 2019. I know so many CS grads who can't find programming jobs now. I work in IT and have plenty of job opportunities. I would definitely only stick with CS if you like computers and not because you want money. It's nearly impossible to find programming jobs these days.
Yeah, i thought i was gonna get into computer science bc family but tbh i always have a drive for more physical things or doing electrical engineering sounds more appealing than the computer science they drive me to do if that makes sense. Rn i'm doing work for family so collage will have to wait rn but tbh dude just in case you don't feel it working out try looking into joining a union as an electrician or other trade job. Idk you could have already thought about it but it would be better off than a fry cook. Just be careful about mechanic stuff depending on your area unless there's a good union. I don't usually comment and this was long but perhaps it may help, I'm starting my 20's so been looking into that stuff. Have a good one!
I feel like I just watched a video about a person that is about to have the worst life ever. Why not just give up? Why do you want to spend the rest of your life doing something you obviously don't like even a little bit? If you're on your junior year you can still jump out of this train that is for sure going to wreck. If you think it's too late to not major in computer science, you can at least still explore other areas that are not about programming, like cybersecurity, which still pays pretty well, if not just as well as programming jobs.
Computer Science doesn't necessarily mean you have to be a programmer/coder. It is a massive field, and while programming is a big-ass part of it, it's far from the only thing in there. Personally, I chose CS because of how flexible it is, one day I'm front-end developer and I can become data scientist if I want to. Try out different fields, such as Machine Learning, Cybersecurity, Data Science and many more if you're not into coding.
I'm doing a Computer Engineering degree. Despite the fact that I prefer the CS side of things, I'm glad I continued doing CE. CE is a lot less saturated from what I heard looking for Co-Ops, and you can use a CE degree to get CS jobs if your portfolio is good. Seriously though, you should not be going into this field if the only reason you're doing so is because you heard it pays well. The market is extremely saturated right now so you have to be a genius to get hired, or wait until the burnout starts kicking in hard enough that companies have to hire new employees again as all their old ones quit.
There are better paid jobs than being a software developer. And the current state of the job market is even proving this, CS people are being mass fired. There's the worse time to begin working. But you can use this time to improve yourself if you wish to.
I would consider myself somebody who loves programming and computer science in general. I was lucky enough to be at the right place at the right time, and I currently work professionally as a software engineer. I just want to let anyone who is pursuing CS know that you should only be doing it if you REALLY like it. As somebody who still goes home and works on hobby projects, I still hate my job sometimes, but its something I can tolerate. There are so many other things you can do in life. Don't waste your time doing CS if you don't like it, you will be miserable even if or when you do get the job.
I'm one of those, kind of, child prodigies. I've been programming since 7 and I've been doing it for 6 years now. I know all the basic stuff like python and those languages and I'm now doing Rust and C++ but it's still so hard. Even though I have a HUGE head start against everyone else I still see those that there are people out there are far more knowledgeable than me and it's hard to compete.
Ah good luck on C++ and Rust, I'm currently in Middle school in terms of America as I'm an indian. Funny thing, I have had an itch for programming since I was 5 years old. I too right now am trying to learn 2 programming languages, Java and Rust. I wish you good luck on your adventures with coding. Cheers!
Do _not_ go into CS because you like it only a bit. Things are standardized to the gills in production code. It's as dull as any other job, plus you gotta walk to stay still in terms of your market viability.
The jobs will come back as soon as the economy starts growing again, don't worry about that just yet. But if you just really hate it, consider just dropping out, dude. I know a lot of people who dropped out of engineering AFTER they graduated because they hated it so much. I have a cousin that took 5 years of med school and dropped out because it became unbearable. What I'm saying is that this feeling you have will only grow worse until you can't take it anymore, and you will be even deeper into it. Just drop out now and go figure out what you like (or at least what is bearable to you).
I've been very close to switching or taking some time away from school but honestly I don't know what I would like to do even if I did switch the only things I've ever enjoyed much were creative fields like twitch/youtube but it's hard to turn those into anything more than a hobby
But im already familiar with tech, i spend alot more on computer than other thing, i feel lost about future and my career until i found out i love thing to do with computer, i love solving problem and i definitely love spending hours trying to fix my computer. I dont have passion on anything else other than computer. I dont care about money but if im gonna live, im gonna spend rest of my live doing thing i love
He's not joking. Even if you're very, very, very good... full of passion, aptitude, and a knack and flair for it... you're competing with the likes of Linux Torvalds or John Carmack who's reputation proceeds them... everywhere. You basically have to become successful first, and by that time, you don't need a job, you've written your own check and paved your own way.
graduated just as the market crash, the other jobs that i can "apply" are either minimum wage at fastfood restaurants or some cleaning service, that or it jobs that i can apply but keep getting ghosted, shouldve gone into farming tbh
You just won't be able to compete with people who have genuine passion for this stuff and have fun doing it. Companies can easily see those who are only for the money. No wonder they aren't hiring many Juniors anymore when people have been led to believe "Just take a coding bootcamp bro, you'll get rich quick".
I did the same thing I took AP computer science and physics instead of normal math classes in hindsight really bad idea considering comp sci is a ton of math
@@ForwardFacingManny I didn't realize it had a lot of math. My AP teacher quit after the first half of my school year, so we never made it for the math part. But, at least it was a free math credit. 😅
Make your own projects and don't worry about internships. You can create what you like and be able to make money off of it if your smart about how you monetize it.
Every language - lists free, the worst, the bad and a kind of OK. But if you're into it for money, don't worry. Just learn COBOL and you're set for life.
CS is a great minor but as a major it just doesn’t specialize you enough. You end up being pretty good at programming but only having a shallow understanding of everything else. At least that’s how my schools program was, and that is also why the job market is the way it is.
If you spend a lot of time coding for fun while growing up, just continue and it will be great :) However, I guess that this guy went to this business blindly without even knowing if he liked doing that kind of stuff... Like deciding to become a pilot without even having been in an airplane before and then realizing what mistake he made. Each person need to figure out what they like and decide what to do. This guy shouldn't tell others what they should do just because he doesn't like it. Personally I have loved coding since I saw my first page of code, and when I years later got my first coding job I thought "Oh I can sit here and code and debug, and even getting paid for it :) "
This was me. I built my first blockchain protocol from scratch and my first neural network freshman and junior years of high school. I spent my time focused on personal projects and not leetcode and I strongly regret it, I was under the illusion that SWE roles cared about personal projects but in reality I think referrals + leetcode + grades are way more important. :/
if you don't wanna do this then just don't. Who cares how many years or money you've spent on this. Pursue what you want to do even if it seems hard to achieve and regardless of what anyone would think of you for it. Don't live a life of cowardice acting based on what people would think of you. Don't be another sheep who's on antidepressants by the time they're 30 or 40 because they were too scared to make the decisions they wanted to make. Don't be the guy who'll be remembered because he had an uncontroversial life when he's in his death bed.
and the sad think is that we are not going to accomplish anything important bc the kids who started coding since 4 and have 6 degrees in math and burning passion for coding will destroy us (not to mention Ai)
Also rising Junior. You literally described why you're not getting jobs. Computer science is not software development just because they look like they're doing the same thing because theyre coding does not mean its the same. you prove you are a developer by developing. Go take some udemy courses at the very least and show that you have marketable skills through a portfolio.
I see your point I've been working as part of a research group through my university but it seems like personal projects are more valuable for internships
Oh for sure my suggestion is start going onto listings for internships. Find what they all commonly want buy a 40 hour udemy course and start learning it. I straight up got the recruiters personal website saw exactly what skills they had on their page and started learning those
you should learn scheme - it's very different to non-lisp programming languages so it might be interesting? also no-one knows it unless they did it in their CS course, so it might make you sound like a nerd (which you probably want)
don't choose computer science just because of the money, if you like problem solving and building stuff absolutely go for it
That's the reason why i signed up for CS, i later found out that they make so much money so i'm glad i chose it.
This
you know, it all comes down to what can you do and does it make money, problem solve or not in life the real question is does it make money?
Choose it for the money only IF it is palapabtle
If you learned you liked because originally you wanted the money that’s probably fine but if you don’t like it you don’t have to stick with it.
bro tryna reduce the competition 😭🙏
shhhhh
Let bro cook
lol
😂😂😂
People really need to understand that CS is a branch of mathematics.
honestly web dev is such a cancer that everyone thought that computers are born no execute a V8 engine and nothing more.
Studying math is such a pleasure too, I don't know why CS degrees just stop at calculus + discrete math + automata theory, there is so much more math way more important to computer science and they just decide to not teach it lol
learn Uiua
@@CaarabaloneDZN it depends on where you're doing your degree. Here in Europe I haven't even done discrete maths, just real analysis and linear algebra
@@jorgemellsI live in Europe and i've done all the things the first guy said (calculus, discrete math, automata) and a few more. Seems just like a Country ir even University thing.
that's gonna help his situation
If you pick any field just for the money you are going to be below average and miserable
I agree there seems to be no solution though when people go into a field they actually like and still end up working at McDonald’s and complaining on TikTok.
Me when i "picked" accounting as a career and i already want to gtfo
I don't dream of labor lmfaoo
My advice to any young programmers right now: if you want to get hired by tech, you need to COMPETE with tech. Make an app that does ONE thing better than facebook, ONE thing better than twitter. Either the apps will start making money, or your competition will hire you. Also remember that in addition to learning "coding," you need to learn technology/computers in general. Not much point in spending all that time learning how to _tell computers what to do_ when you don't even _know what they are capabale of_
EDIT: This advice is more for "young adults" who like need money to live. If you are in highschool focus on school
Sure, a newbie is going to make something better than an org with thousands of 10+ year of experience developers..
@@johndank2209 Buddy I said an app that does ONE thing better. Even if you can't beat them at scalable infrastructure, you can beat them at the DESIGN level. Many people think there are parts of facebook that are badly designed. Nail THOSE parts in your app, allow the rest to be bare minimum, and congratulations you are now competing on the free market
This just isn't realistic for most new graduates, many of the ideas you'll end up coming up with are either in some ticket at a big company or you'll end up executing it in a really mediocre way.
This doesnt mean dont attempt it
Easier said than done man.
don't worry about the internship - just work on personal projects
and don't compare yourself to others - I was the slowest to complete every project for the first two years and by the end I was the fastest - turns out everyone was cheating
100%
This
Hell yeah
wait, you choose cs but dont like programming?
That is the real mistake
I used to like it when I took programming classes in high school but I burnt out and the industry flopped right as I started college
@@ForwardFacingManny I mean, it's a good thing that the slowdown is happening now, when you don't need to get a job. Chances are, things will be better by the time you graduate, because this industry is pretty speculative and swings back and forth, especially when you're talking about startups and other non-established companies.
I'm finishing up my degree now, and I still really like CS. I like solving problems and delving deep into the way it all works at a lower level. I'll be graduating into a bad job market, but the skills a CS degree gives you isn't just "writing code", it's an understanding of computer architecture and math theory that makes you at least semi-employable in many tech industries. So I'm not going to be that fatalistic about my job prospects.
@@yurab1834 good point
@@ForwardFacingMannyI think it would be nice if you did more "fun" type projects. You know, somthing you would program to have fun so that it would reawaken your love for programming.
I feel like most projects in college are very rote and boring in nature and they often end up making people think they don't like programming because of that.
@@ForwardFacingManny just got out of the college and the industry crashes, if you just starting out, there are plenty of choice you can make
Money is a terrible motivator because money is never guaranteed. If learning/building/problem-solving is your goal than that would always be achieved.
The tech industry like so many others in our dysfunctional economy goes through boom and bust cycles, you're just in the valley now. The peak will come later and you better be prepared to capitalize on it.
welp, i already have too many empty monsters on my desk and a couple sets of thigh highs no turning back now
Parents should never say anything about your future job, so people don’t end up like us.
I had a classmate who was very talented. He could get best grades with very little effort. He went into CS only because of money but had no interest in coding. He ended up failing the courses and as a result got dropped out of university because even though with his talent and ability exam preparation would have taken him like just few hours, he didn't even have that much of motivation.
Technology is a good area, but there isn't any area in which you can easily get a high paying job, they are high paying jobs because very few people have the skill to do them.
This is true to many roles outside it industry, if many people would do ot easily, then why i need to pay you with high salary ?
This may just pass man. I decided that I hated coding after taking a gnarly operating systems class in my junior year, but now that I’m out of school I actually love it again and have way more patience for it. I think being stressed out with a grade held over your head can make you hate anything.
Also, I managed to get hired as a junior SWE in 2023 and I was about as average as student as you can get. Probably had a lot of luck involved, but it’s doable man. The apocalyptic shit you see people saying on Reddit probably isn’t the best sample to base reality on.
"I decided that I hated coding after taking a gnarly operating systems class in my junior year, but now that I’m out of school I actually love it again and have way more patience for it."
I can definitely relate to that. I have a CS degree and absolutely hated programming at times in university, but have recently been thinking about getting back into it after not really touching it for several years. I miss having an outlet for that sort of logical problem solving and it would be cool to build small programs to automate shit in my life.
@@flanself9361 FYI, if you decide to do it I’d highly recommend using the shit out of chat GPT. Just giving it your ideas and asking it to outline how you can accomplish them is insanely useful and makes it a lot more approachable. Im sure most of us don’t have the time to spend hours researching which frameworks to use and it will save you from that
For those making the argument of "you shouod choose what you really like or what you're good at" needs to understand most people that chose cs chose it because of money. Money legit lets us live. Its not someone's fault to fall down that path when they were told they would earn a high paying job.
i think thats pretty obvious. the reason why people say this is because its harder to succeed at something you don't enjoy. you'd be more prone to burn outs and etc. especially if you're not already good at the thing you want to choose. i think the reason why a lot of people say this specifically about cs degrees is because cs is difficult, lol. its not something most people can just push through if they genuinely don't enjoy it. i mean, if you're doing it for the money and you can keep the motivation just with that, that's cool, but im sure that's difficult for most people so it's always advised to choose things you like / are good at.
I would completely agree with you other than the fact that I am one of those people with an "absolute burning passion" so yeah thankfully im good :)
Thanks for sharing your journey. I'm built for programming, and I hate that people who are neither competent, passionate, or even happy hogs the job market because some ahole billionaires kickstarted the "learn to code meme". That's mean and pretentious, but a considerable chunk of my time is being wasted in cleaning up after peoples who doesn't enjoy their job and can't keep the pace.
I see it everyday; lots of ppl like you who fell into the sunk cost fallacy and got their degrees, but are clearly miserables. Dont do that. You deserve better. You deserve happiness.You deserve to feel competent and useful. That's more valuable than money.
As a person who recently graduated and landed a job
I also had the similar feeling of "market sucks, ill never get a job"
especially during 3rd and 4th year of college.
There are a ton of jobs that only partially related to programming itself like sysadmins, team leads and such.
The reason why everyone tells you to "learn to code" specifically is because it's much easier to sell a half assed python programming course for normies than a cisco certification course
This is literally me; a sophomore going into my junior year of college. It feels like I have a wall of 4 years of stuff to do but I’m already two years into my degree and I can’t turn back now. I wish I knew even just 2 years ago what I know now. Hoping for the best for us all regardless!
Are there any tips you could give to a rising junior in highschool looking to go into CS?
Then u would realize how much u could actually have learned on ur own instead of some kinda pointless classes during ur time in college, sometimes u r just better off learning on ur own but u kinda still need that paper to get higher chances of getting hired nowadays.
Learning on your own doesn’t means shit when corporations automatically refuse to hire you if they don’t see a degree.
@@goofyahdemoman1134 up to the corp u r applying to, some care some dont
Same, wasted my first two years prioritizing math over coding just to pass some courses, now am trying to catch up in everything on a few months
I find a lot of the concepts from computer science to be interesting but if we're talking actual work with data and project management, I don't really see myself in that field forever. A good message to anyone would be is that the field you're competent at isn't necessarily the field you'd enjoy making an entire living with.
I'm almost graduating and I can relate, I know I'm not going to pursue a career even though I really like Java, it's not something I see myself doing in the future...
I like this type of video, keep doing it!!
Thank you :)
Rookie mistake was going for coding instead of trying out studying computer repairs. It's problem solving too, but instead of typing something and straining your eyes at white text on a black background (I hope so) looking for a semicolon, you desolder a bad component (or just replace the board as a whole) or install a driver after searching for it on the Internet. Occasionally, you only just have to do maintenance work on your client's pc, install Libreoffice or Adobe Reader, or just assist with hooking up the client's laptop to a television set.
I am ready to embrace insanity. Im also 2 years in and I do love computers but I do see myself going clinically insane.
The sad part is that this isn’t the ideal world where you can survive doing what you want.
Most jobs that pay well are either too hard for people or will make you miserable.
Most jobs that are fun and aren’t just STEM or some obvious money making field…don’t make you a lot of money. Being a teacher is…horrible. Having a shop is…horrible. Society forces you to pick miserable jobs as you NEED to be miserable to be alive in this economy.
I started coding at 9 and I still code cuz I love coding, I just turned 15 and I like coding on low level programming languages... tbh, couldn't love coding more, I just like building stuff that can help me or just fun little games so, I guess I'll stick to programming for now
it sounds like you might be one of the childhood prodigies I mentioned
@@ForwardFacingManny lmfao
@@ForwardFacingManny real. i still think about what my could have been if i had a "special ability"/hobby/started doing something as a kid... damm. I still don't know were my life is headed
do harvard's CS50x RIGHT NOW and you will be ahead of everyone your age for as long as you keep improving
Dude, calm down and keep trying. Your expectations don't line up with reality. The people that you're talking with that make you feel worthless... 80-80% are either straight up lying, or they're massively exaggerating to you. A very few are wunderkinds that really are walking the talk.
This entire notion that people need to be sprinting through uni and right into a high paying job is non-sense. It doesn't even work that way.
I really appreciate your advice sometimes it just feels like there’s so much pressure and hearing this helps
@@ForwardFacingManny I've been in the industry for 25 years and run an apprenticeship style program for my company to get people trained on things we want... I have to keep everyone's expectations aligned. It is something I still have to manage for myself. When you see things on social media, everyone is showing off their success and rarely are they sharing the reality of their challenges (even when they highlight some).
This is a very valuable and well written comment. Many people need to see this.
Here's a stark reality check: you aren't getting a degree in software development, you are getting a degree in computer science. If you aren't interested in learning the science behind computing and just want to land a job, quit your degree and start learning for the job. You will save a lot of money and be much more practically ready for your first job than the majority of fresh candidates with a bachelors degree and no actual practical skills
I completely resonate with this video and I absolutely love it because it shows a harsh truth! I personally went through this situation in 2022-20203. I did one year of college, full of frustrations, after which I gave up, and this year I stayed at home so I could prepare for the med school exam. Keep going only if you feel that this will make you happy because I know people who finished college, worked as programmers for 1-2 years and then re-profiled on something they loved
It really depends.
I dont code all the time, but literally most of my life is computers.
These are some of the areas I like: coding, software architecture, maths, doing computer builds, soldering, electronics, AI, cybersec, etc...
When I get tired of an area I go to another and switch back and forth because my passion truly is computer science. This is how vast this field is.
I do software engineering to put bread on the table, and believe it or not, besides entry/junior level jobs, coding will not be the challenging part of it.
Do what you're good at, don't give up just because it gets hard. Every day you learn something new, you will have pushed the needle a little more towards success. You will distinguish yourself not by being a "child prodigy" but by putting in the leg work. The fact that our industry changes so rapidly is the great equalizer. I've seen people with decades more experience than me have to unlearn crappy patterns, while I got to embrace best practices the first time.
i was trying to find a major, i wanted a computer related one, i was gonna go technician but it feels like i have learned a decent amount that i dont think its needed, kept searching until finally found Computer science, im still happy with my decision so far :P
in cs right now, will either change majors, or minor in education and teach at a high school
💀
He's so real for this.
Just because you love tech, it doesn't mean you'll enjoy programming
Yeah ! I totally feel you. I just graduated with my computer science degree and couldn't land a job so, here i am, I just finished my first semester of university .
i got into computer systems engineering, same as you i don't like coding but i like the finished thingy working. tbh the process is soul crushing but the skill that you develop is something special
there is room in this industry for people who aren't necessarily "genius" but can at least translate peoples ideas into some piece of software or service at a reasonable price...it's just very messy cause there are so many fakers and clients are incredibly distrusting for being burned several times by the cheapest contractors they could find....when they actually decide to cough up some cash, you are getting the lumpiest/bumpiest end of the stick!
seeing this as a childe prodigy who got his first internship in middle schools is such an unexpected ego boost LMAOO
I personally find the hours of staring at code trying to figure out what's wrong to be really interesting and engaging and a fun problem solving activity.
I agree with your analysis. If you don't love coding, you shouldn't do it.
I’m a CS dropout cyber sec BA graduate, This is true.
it's definitely is not a ticket to high pay job, its so fucking hard and there is so much competition here. But if you sucseed...
The path to misery and depression… Our teachers always told us, every product needs to be finished by yesterday. I never really understood the implications of this mentality on my health and wellbeing until I lived through it. I like computers and tinkering with stuff as a hobby, never again as a job. Right now, I teach computer science in elementary and high school, which is a different beast of its own. But I love the collaboration, the discussion, the human interaction in general, and that I feel I can do a lot more right now, make a difference and I live it.
Personally, I'm not very passionate about technology myself, but I got into it because it pays well. I just look at it realistically and economically. The majority of people are never going to do what they want to do or what they're passionate about and still be able to secure a comfortable living with that solely. It's nice if you can enjoy your work, but I feel it's ultimately irrelevant if you do not. Most don't go to work to have fun but to do a job. I don't work in this field because I love it, but because I learned to be good at it and it pays well. Beats being a starving writer/artist just because that's what I enjoy. Any consolation, I do think you have to go for something you do not hate that is also lucrative, but that's about it.
It's exhausting to learn new tech every so often, especially in this field. But you'll get used to it eventually.
Just finished first year and starting to think the same
It's tough for me because I've burnt myself out but if you've got a passion for it I'm sure you'll do great :)
@@ForwardFacingManny I'm passionate into coding that's why I am studying PCM to crack JEE but I don't like study :/
26? @@Aadarsh_Legend
@@DeadziMonn pls do elaborate! if you're asking for age then I'm just 17yo :)
@@Aadarsh_Legend oh I meant when you're giving the exam
dont stop man keep up the good videos
Hah, you know what is worse? Graduating and realizing that even if you get a job, it would be in some company that has some old legacy software that needs to be maintained, because the same people that graduated with no passion decided to stop learning and just maintain what they have, with the rare occasional updates where something always goes wrong, because they themselves have no clue what they are doing, but they are passionately doing it.
Usable versatile skills don't pay the bills, they rid you of them, better to not rely on some abstract math and luck of fortune to keep your family alive
I graduated with CS degree in 2019. I know so many CS grads who can't find programming jobs now. I work in IT and have plenty of job opportunities. I would definitely only stick with CS if you like computers and not because you want money. It's nearly impossible to find programming jobs these days.
Yeah, i thought i was gonna get into computer science bc family but tbh i always have a drive for more physical things or doing electrical engineering sounds more appealing than the computer science they drive me to do if that makes sense. Rn i'm doing work for family so collage will have to wait rn but tbh dude just in case you don't feel it working out try looking into joining a union as an electrician or other trade job. Idk you could have already thought about it but it would be better off than a fry cook. Just be careful about mechanic stuff depending on your area unless there's a good union. I don't usually comment and this was long but perhaps it may help, I'm starting my 20's so been looking into that stuff. Have a good one!
appreciate you I'll definitely think on it
I feel like I just watched a video about a person that is about to have the worst life ever. Why not just give up? Why do you want to spend the rest of your life doing something you obviously don't like even a little bit? If you're on your junior year you can still jump out of this train that is for sure going to wreck. If you think it's too late to not major in computer science, you can at least still explore other areas that are not about programming, like cybersecurity, which still pays pretty well, if not just as well as programming jobs.
Computer Science doesn't necessarily mean you have to be a programmer/coder. It is a massive field, and while programming is a big-ass part of it, it's far from the only thing in there. Personally, I chose CS because of how flexible it is, one day I'm front-end developer and I can become data scientist if I want to. Try out different fields, such as Machine Learning, Cybersecurity, Data Science and many more if you're not into coding.
I'm doing a Computer Engineering degree. Despite the fact that I prefer the CS side of things, I'm glad I continued doing CE. CE is a lot less saturated from what I heard looking for Co-Ops, and you can use a CE degree to get CS jobs if your portfolio is good.
Seriously though, you should not be going into this field if the only reason you're doing so is because you heard it pays well. The market is extremely saturated right now so you have to be a genius to get hired, or wait until the burnout starts kicking in hard enough that companies have to hire new employees again as all their old ones quit.
I thought about it, got my commercial drivers license instead. Got no regrets lol
MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY I WANT MONEY MONEY NOW PLEASE MONEY MORE MONMEY YES MONEY MOMMY MUMMY
That's all i heard.
We have not have a computer science teacher in our school for 4 months. There is still an open job listing available
XD
Easy job, lots of money
Then again, my dream weekend involves at least 12 hours of coding so
There are better paid jobs than being a software developer. And the current state of the job market is even proving this, CS people are being mass fired. There's the worse time to begin working. But you can use this time to improve yourself if you wish to.
Tbh I am probably going to do CS anyway because it’s the only thing I’m good at.
I would consider myself somebody who loves programming and computer science in general. I was lucky enough to be at the right place at the right time, and I currently work professionally as a software engineer. I just want to let anyone who is pursuing CS know that you should only be doing it if you REALLY like it. As somebody who still goes home and works on hobby projects, I still hate my job sometimes, but its something I can tolerate. There are so many other things you can do in life. Don't waste your time doing CS if you don't like it, you will be miserable even if or when you do get the job.
People need to understand what computer science is. CS is the study computer theories, not the study of practical skills.
I'm one of those, kind of, child prodigies. I've been programming since 7 and I've been doing it for 6 years now. I know all the basic stuff like python and those languages and I'm now doing Rust and C++ but it's still so hard. Even though I have a HUGE head start against everyone else I still see those that there are people out there are far more knowledgeable than me and it's hard to compete.
keep it up 💪
Ah good luck on C++ and Rust, I'm currently in Middle school in terms of America as I'm an indian. Funny thing, I have had an itch for programming since I was 5 years old. I too right now am trying to learn 2 programming languages, Java and Rust. I wish you good luck on your adventures with coding.
Cheers!
i got my first internship at a tech company at elementary school
Do _not_ go into CS because you like it only a bit. Things are standardized to the gills in production code. It's as dull as any other job, plus you gotta walk to stay still in terms of your market viability.
The jobs will come back as soon as the economy starts growing again, don't worry about that just yet. But if you just really hate it, consider just dropping out, dude. I know a lot of people who dropped out of engineering AFTER they graduated because they hated it so much. I have a cousin that took 5 years of med school and dropped out because it became unbearable. What I'm saying is that this feeling you have will only grow worse until you can't take it anymore, and you will be even deeper into it. Just drop out now and go figure out what you like (or at least what is bearable to you).
I've been very close to switching or taking some time away from school but honestly I don't know what I would like to do even if I did switch the only things I've ever enjoyed much were creative fields like twitch/youtube but it's hard to turn those into anything more than a hobby
with the emergence of AI, I REALLY don't know if comp sci is the way to go
not to be a doomer but if CS is not safe then a whole lot of jobs aren't safe either, even people in the creative space
Same feeling I’m at my 3rd year of college doing computer science.
But im already familiar with tech, i spend alot more on computer than other thing, i feel lost about future and my career
until i found out i love thing to do with computer, i love solving problem and i definitely love spending hours trying to fix my computer.
I dont have passion on anything else other than computer. I dont care about money but if im gonna live, im gonna spend rest of my live doing thing i love
He's not joking. Even if you're very, very, very good... full of passion, aptitude, and a knack and flair for it... you're competing with the likes of Linux Torvalds or John Carmack who's reputation proceeds them... everywhere. You basically have to become successful first, and by that time, you don't need a job, you've written your own check and paved your own way.
graduated just as the market crash, the other jobs that i can "apply" are either minimum wage at fastfood restaurants or some cleaning service, that or it jobs that i can apply but keep getting ghosted, shouldve gone into farming tbh
farming would be sick
You just won't be able to compete with people who have genuine passion for this stuff and have fun doing it. Companies can easily see those who are only for the money. No wonder they aren't hiring many Juniors anymore when people have been led to believe "Just take a coding bootcamp bro, you'll get rich quick".
Bro, I agree and relate with you 100%.
I chose computer science in my junior year just because it counted as a math credit so I didn't have to take any math class on ny senior.
I did the same thing I took AP computer science and physics instead of normal math classes in hindsight really bad idea considering comp sci is a ton of math
@@ForwardFacingManny I didn't realize it had a lot of math. My AP teacher quit after the first half of my school year, so we never made it for the math part. But, at least it was a free math credit. 😅
Simply out of curiousity, what part of CS are you currently learning /working on in your course?
CS is for people who like solving problems, rather than being the problem.
Make your own projects and don't worry about internships. You can create what you like and be able to make money off of it if your smart about how you monetize it.
Every language - lists free, the worst, the bad and a kind of OK.
But if you're into it for money, don't worry. Just learn COBOL and you're set for life.
CS is a great minor but as a major it just doesn’t specialize you enough. You end up being pretty good at programming but only having a shallow understanding of everything else. At least that’s how my schools program was, and that is also why the job market is the way it is.
I can't believe people are still going into the field when the CEO of Nvidia has said not to, smh
Helpful tip, don't choose any profession because of the money.
If you spend a lot of time coding for fun while growing up, just continue and it will be great :)
However, I guess that this guy went to this business blindly without even knowing if he liked doing that kind of stuff... Like deciding to become a pilot without even having been in an airplane before and then realizing what mistake he made. Each person need to figure out what they like and decide what to do. This guy shouldn't tell others what they should do just because he doesn't like it.
Personally I have loved coding since I saw my first page of code, and when I years later got my first coding job I thought "Oh I can sit here and code and debug, and even getting paid for it :) "
This was me. I built my first blockchain protocol from scratch and my first neural network freshman and junior years of high school. I spent my time focused on personal projects and not leetcode and I strongly regret it, I was under the illusion that SWE roles cared about personal projects but in reality I think referrals + leetcode + grades are way more important. :/
Very humorous, thanks 😀
YAY ETHAN THIS VIDEO IS SO GOOD
:) thanks
if you don't wanna do this then just don't. Who cares how many years or money you've spent on this. Pursue what you want to do even if it seems hard to achieve and regardless of what anyone would think of you for it. Don't live a life of cowardice acting based on what people would think of you. Don't be another sheep who's on antidepressants by the time they're 30 or 40 because they were too scared to make the decisions they wanted to make. Don't be the guy who'll be remembered because he had an uncontroversial life when he's in his death bed.
If you are interested in developing software, study mathematics and physics and pick up programming on the side.
i do this for the love of the game
Laughs in CISSP
What if you have no idea what to do
then you are in the same boat as me my friend
and the sad think is that we are not going to accomplish anything important bc the kids who started coding since 4 and have 6 degrees in math and burning passion for coding will destroy us (not to mention Ai)
Bro is in the same place as me
lol bro funny video. But yeah you could one day be the intern who fetches Elon Musk's coffee!! How cool would that be???
Especially in this market.
Also rising Junior. You literally described why you're not getting jobs. Computer science is not software development just because they look like they're doing the same thing because theyre coding does not mean its the same. you prove you are a developer by developing. Go take some udemy courses at the very least and show that you have marketable skills through a portfolio.
I see your point I've been working as part of a research group through my university but it seems like personal projects are more valuable for internships
Oh for sure my suggestion is start going onto listings for internships. Find what they all commonly want buy a 40 hour udemy course and start learning it. I straight up got the recruiters personal website saw exactly what skills they had on their page and started learning those
good one hair guy stick
CS != SWE btw
SWE can be CompE, EE, IT, CS, heck even Math major
Yeah I’ve been thinking a lot about using my degree for something besides software engineering just makes the path a little harder
SWE is EE?
I've seen a fuckton of propaganda for electrical stuff, is that market gonna get oversaturated soon?
isnt cs stands for counter-strike degree?
Man it's like i was there
you should learn scheme - it's very different to non-lisp programming languages so it might be interesting?
also no-one knows it unless they did it in their CS course, so it might make you sound like a nerd (which you probably want)
Then it gets worse when in industry cause everyone that was a try hard in college are now your colleagues at work
Like brother ew.
maybe ill just get an IT course instead hahahaha
Should have done English Lit instead?
makes me glad I didnt pick cs... but I dont think electrical engineering is much better haha
EE is just as hard if not harder but the job market is pretty good