Hi @DarkAeroInc, I'm curious. It appears you're filling the entire mold with chopped fiber with no tube cutouts. I'm guessing this results in "solid" tube connectors. Do you drill the tube holes afterward in a post-processing step that's not shown? Thanks
So youre probably using infusion if ive learned anything from you? ;) Also can you use recycled cf for this? Seems like the perfect use case for old wind turbines etc
We've done both, but for the tube connectors featured in this vid, we infused them. Definitely possible to use recycled carbon fiber if you can get the requirements of your part to line up with the published specs on the carbon fiber, but quality control will play a role here. If the part is purely cosmetic, then using recycled fibers is probably not an issue. However for any structural parts it would be critical to have a supplier of recycled fibers that can guarantee a certain degree of consistency with the source of the fibers.
@@UncleKennysPlace this is half true. For example, Siemens Gamesa states they use pultruded carbon fiber along with Glass fiber in their IntegralBlades Technology. i would assume its Carbon fiber rods running down the blade with the glass fiber making up the surface and the form.
What I can't kinda understand is how you avoid a grain/layers when using this method. Doesn't the direction that you stuff and press the fibers in affect this?
Yes, it's possible to develop a bias in your properties depending on how the fibers are packed into the mold. Depending on your part requirements this may not be an issue, but if having a bias puts the part at risk of being near the limits of its strength, another material/process should be considered. Resin also plays a role in the strength for these types of parts so this is another variable that can be changed to meet your requirements. Having a good handle on your part requirements, a consistent process, and collecting test data on your parts is key.
Super fascinating! What is the strength/stiffness of those forged tube connectors compared to say steel? Do you use any other forged carbon pieces in the plane?
Definitely a superior weight/strength ratio compared to steel, but a lot depends on your process, your quality control and your part geometry. When used in any structural application it's recommended for all composite parts, but especially parts made from chopped strands like 'forged' CF, to design with a healthy safety margin (2 times the required strength or greater) and to make some test articles to test to breaking point.
I really want to learn more about making forged components but I've really struggled to find literally any resources about compression mold design or anything like that, especially when it comes to recreating more complex injection-moldings that may have undercuts, thin sections, or hollow areas.
Pretty sure a couple grades or strand sizes and chopped piece sizes like a course and fine is used to make a more consistent mix that'll decrease probability of resin only voids or undesirable strand overlap.
He holds up Pro Set INF-114 infusion resin, which is what you'd use for the vacuum bagging infusion process he mentioned. You can order this from a variety of suppliers. I'd be curious what resin they use for the non-vacuum process.
@Rathlin Postman real forged parts are made under high heat and pressure. it's easy to get the cosmetic look of forged carbon with chopped strand but the strength properties will not be there. for exame you'll see lots of DIY youtubers doing "forged carbon skinning" etc when they're just vacuum bagging chopped strand carbon over a part but not actually making a forged part
@@burnchruches Thanks for that. So then it's like for example, the difference between drop forging a steel spanner and moulding a composite streamlining fairing.
Learn more about our courses at darkaero.com/courses
Hi @DarkAeroInc, I'm curious. It appears you're filling the entire mold with chopped fiber with no tube cutouts. I'm guessing this results in "solid" tube connectors. Do you drill the tube holes afterward in a post-processing step that's not shown? Thanks
@@justinmorgan7851Yessir! The bore in the tube connector was machined during a secondary operation not shown in the video.
@@DarkAeroIncThanks! Beautiful workmanship btw.
Thanks for your content , I m just starting to use carbon and it helps in making design and application decisions thank you 🙏
First real FC part I seen
So youre probably using infusion if ive learned anything from you? ;)
Also can you use recycled cf for this? Seems like the perfect use case for old wind turbines etc
We've done both, but for the tube connectors featured in this vid, we infused them. Definitely possible to use recycled carbon fiber if you can get the requirements of your part to line up with the published specs on the carbon fiber, but quality control will play a role here. If the part is purely cosmetic, then using recycled fibers is probably not an issue. However for any structural parts it would be critical to have a supplier of recycled fibers that can guarantee a certain degree of consistency with the source of the fibers.
Due to cost, wind turbines are made from glass fibers, not carbon.
@@UncleKennysPlace this is half true. For example, Siemens Gamesa states they use pultruded carbon fiber along with Glass fiber in their IntegralBlades Technology. i would assume its Carbon fiber rods running down the blade with the glass fiber making up the surface and the form.
What I can't kinda understand is how you avoid a grain/layers when using this method. Doesn't the direction that you stuff and press the fibers in affect this?
Yes, it's possible to develop a bias in your properties depending on how the fibers are packed into the mold. Depending on your part requirements this may not be an issue, but if having a bias puts the part at risk of being near the limits of its strength, another material/process should be considered. Resin also plays a role in the strength for these types of parts so this is another variable that can be changed to meet your requirements. Having a good handle on your part requirements, a consistent process, and collecting test data on your parts is key.
Super fascinating! What is the strength/stiffness of those forged tube connectors compared to say steel? Do you use any other forged carbon pieces in the plane?
Definitely a superior weight/strength ratio compared to steel, but a lot depends on your process, your quality control and your part geometry. When used in any structural application it's recommended for all composite parts, but especially parts made from chopped strands like 'forged' CF, to design with a healthy safety margin (2 times the required strength or greater) and to make some test articles to test to breaking point.
I really want to learn more about making forged components but I've really struggled to find literally any resources about compression mold design or anything like that, especially when it comes to recreating more complex injection-moldings that may have undercuts, thin sections, or hollow areas.
You can use resin infusion for forged carbon? Interesting i didnt know that, you have any videos on the process?
What's the chance of flow lines resulting in parts with flaws when the chopped fibers don't interlink/overlap?
Pretty sure a couple grades or strand sizes and chopped piece sizes like a course and fine is used to make a more consistent mix that'll decrease probability of resin only voids or undesirable strand overlap.
When making forged carbon fiber, besides vacuum packing it, do they put it in an auto clave or heat fix it?
Are you making forged composites now in house?
Where do you get your resin/ fibers from?
He holds up Pro Set INF-114 infusion resin, which is what you'd use for the vacuum bagging infusion process he mentioned. You can order this from a variety of suppliers. I'd be curious what resin they use for the non-vacuum process.
lol billet mold
Did you know that is also how you make Carbon Fiber Submarines.. with Expired rolls of Carbon Fiber? We all know how that turns out.
Cf doesnt expire lol
aren't those chopped dry fibers super dangerous?
They burn all the same when the incinerator cremates you.
Just don’t eat them.
no
@@mattym8 it's more a breathing thing. like asbestos. carbon fiber is said to be as dangerous or more than asbestos. and it's not talked enough about.
Those fibers are way to big. You’re not going to be breathing those in.
Now make a submarine
you are not doing" forged " carbon at home without special tools. you may get the look but not the strength .
Interesting comment. Can you say more if you have time. Thanks.
@Rathlin Postman real forged parts are made under high heat and pressure. it's easy to get the cosmetic look of forged carbon with chopped strand but the strength properties will not be there. for exame you'll see lots of DIY youtubers doing "forged carbon skinning" etc when they're just vacuum bagging chopped strand carbon over a part but not actually making a forged part
@@burnchruches Thanks for that. So then it's like for example, the difference between drop forging a steel spanner and moulding a composite streamlining fairing.