I haven't read the book, but from what I have heard Daemon doesn't commit his Riverland war crimes and he isn't physically abusive toward Rhaenyra. I also heard that Aegon the second doesn't explicitly sa someone and doesn't have his bastards compete in child fights. I'm very curious if that is true if you know?
@@eskilsvanlind169The book is written like a historical text by an in universe author who wasn’t alive when yhe events he’s writing actually happened, so he has to use multiple sources and cross reference them to determine what most likely happened like real life historians do. Wheras the show has to come up with what “actually” happened, but still stay within the confines of the historical text of Fire & Blood. They did a better job in season 1, but I think season 3 may be better because of all the complaints about season 2.
@@musakamara4157 I'm from the animation and vfx side of the film industry. something more subtle and polished than what Chris does would take more time/money, but the fact that he does over the top saturated eyes I think really sells that YEAH HBO, WHY AREN"T YOU DOING THIS????!!!!! I hope for Aegon the conqueror film they make the effort and just write it of as Alyssa Valerion's fault for polluting the pure targ blood Aenys the 1st had or even make it Rheyny's fault for being unfaithful to sterile Aegon and that's how they lost the purple eyes to stay in canon with the main show and not the books. Have Magor be pure blood parthenogenesis-ed and purple eyed and rest of Aegon and Rhenys' kids to have blue/green eyes like the main series. done deal.
@@HisameArtwork The way Chris edits the purple eyes isn't really "over the top". It still looks believable because there definitely are other edits out there where the purple eyes are way too oversaturated and therefore look unrealistic.
regarding cat... The change in her response to ned going south may be more about losing context from her internal monologue than trying making the character more sympathetic in the show. Book cat is freaked out by the prophetic nature of the direwolf dying to the stag. Her thoughts tell us she is acting out of fear but keeping those fears from ned, the ambition she expresses is as much or more about convincing ned without burdening him as it is a real desire to see her children rule.
You know what, I am a HOTD defender usually. But the point you made about the writers taking agency away from HOTD characters is something I never realized. It’s less interesting that they’re being forced by the plot to make their decisions rather than because of who they are as a character. Great video!
yeah it's my biggest gripe. oh queens good, men bad...ok...sure, 95% of violent crime is committed by men...today (tax fraud is equal opportunity). But it's a medieval setting and even so regardless of time if someone came after your kids, as a mother would you be this passive? Like why didn't we get more of stabby stabby Alicent? The characters were waffling and inconsistent. Like pick a personality trait, and go. I rather have them be one dimensional than nothing.
I still remember when we were first hearing about Bloodmoon and how many people didn't understand that 'black people as non-humans' is incredibly racist.
for the same reason americans and japanese keep portraying our national hero as a blood thirsty monster at least stop calling that fiction Vlad the Impaler, or thai ppl keep making dancing hitler soda commercials. though you'd expect more from european americans that have africans living among them. It's not like in East Europe or China where it's more likely to be struck by lightning than seeing one in the flesh.
Heres's an idea for a mini-series: parents telling their children legends and stories of their respective houses. Like in House Arryn has the legend where the Winged Knight slew the Griffin King, or all the stories regarding Garth the Greenhand and his Children such Maris the Maid being so sought after that it resulted in the first ever tourney and Owen Oakenshield conquering Shield Islands driving selkies and merlings back to the sea. Each episode could start at with live action before getting into the story where each episode has its own animation style to fit into the mood of the story and just so it can better fit the fantastical elements of each story. Thought?
That sounds fun but HBO wants to continue the "dark and mature" vibe of game of thrones at any cost so I doubt they will ever do anything that fun and creative lol
@@misabelrodriguez1163 maybe they'll corner the youth market with Dunc n Egg...but I heard they wanna make that gritty too, sigh. It could have been a great gate way drug for kids. I waited 5 years for my baby siblings to be over 18 to show them GOT and the Witcher games. I got my brother on GOT when he was almost 20 iirc, and I recently got my sister with HOTD. I taught kids before cvid bankrupted the private school I was at and to my surprise kids as young as 12 watched GOT. I'm not ok with that. Their parents didn't know, usually and older sibling teen, would get them into it. I'm all in for quality cinema but it has to be age appropriate. As a kid I watched in secret horror and porn I shouldn't have watched while my parents were away . And I'm afraid of clowns now, IT scarred me for life. What happened to kids that watched Danny's wedding ... can't be good.
Get ready to see dunk and egg crash and burn. Will it be the two of them hanging out in brothels (D&D style) or having a forbidden romance (HotD style). Stay tuned to find out
HOT D season 1 was great. Season 2 had its moments but it was mostly bad. Between that lackluster season 2 finale and GRRM's now deleted blog post, I'm not excited for S3 and am cautious about Dunk and Egg
If Sunfire is actually not around anymore to bbq little Aegon's mother before his eyes as the catalyst event that effected Aegon's ability to form relationships which contributed to family trauma that passed all the way down to cause Aegon 4th to be a twat that swapped dragon eggs for maidenheads.. which is a key part of the upcoming Dunc and Egg story.. the shred of hope will spontaneously combust. I think I'll laugh my a off.
“Let’s just cast black people as children of the forest, then explain a magical curse turned them into elves, then do no focus groups or other internal screenings with the studio - what’s the worst that could happen?
Not to mention Daemon choosing to bend the knee to Rhaenyra only after seeing the weirdos tree prophecy is a complete assassination of his character trajectory within the show as well. Daemon apparently has no agency who can develop as a character on his own because apparently he needs this Season 8 whitewalker homage in order to finally allow him to see the light? Such BS writing Anyway, great video!
Because they want their own story on screen, so the name simply becomes a vehicle for that. Would the same story absent the brand recognition garner as much attention?
Because writers are creative people who want to tell their own stories, but they're hired by studios to write existing stories from "safe" IPs, so in many cases they will work towards adapting these stories to something *they* wanted to write. Sometimes it works, but often we get a bastardised version of the story as a result that is worse than the sum of its parts. A person who just wants to faithfully recreate books probably isn’t going into writing tv shows.
Cuz their egos are weirdly bloated nowadays, even if they don’t want to write for adaptations they can still build reputations to make their own stories. D&D at their prime were offered to make their own Star Wars after all
Can't really say personally if HOTD is a good adaptation having not read the books myself but damn do the characters sound more engaging. That being said, I do enjoy what I'm watching
I'd argue as good as the game of thrones show was it actually wasn't a good ASOIAF adaptation it removed a large amount of fantasy elements and quite a lot of personality traits from the characters, it was a good fantasy/medieval show but in terms of adapting George Martins masterpiece I think it left quite a lot to be desired, now if there was ever an animated series I think that medium would be perfect for adapting the story faithfully.
@@CrusaderChris True , most ppl i have seen criticize s2 for not including battle of gullet or daemon's arc. however as book fan i was so hyped to finally see magic being adapted so idk.
The red queen's impotent interruption of the coronation and the nettles removal has me livid, the coronation interruption was pointless it seemed like they were just trying to spend their Dragon CGI budget, it was absolutely nonsensical, and I feel like Nettles has a point in the story. In my mind the character exists to bring into question the notion of special dragon blood, that perhaps they might have been some blood magicks used to make valyrians more able to bond with dragons something akin to warging magic but as dragons are animals while vicious ones they're essentially domesticated as was done with sheep stealer and perhaps the Incest while might have something to do with preserving the blood magick might also have more to do with the idea of consolidating power because marrying out dragon riders gives dragon riding power to other families but keeping dragon riders within the family sees you having a dragon monopoly
I remember it being announced and saying "Thats really not going to work, there's just not enough material and the material that is there isn't conductive to being expanded that much..." so yeah hearing they were going to do a weird troy-andals-v-black-people thing makes me relieved it was cancelled.
After Rheana Targaryen got turned into Nettles, I expect Hollywood to portray diversity as accurate as a typical Disney live action reboot. At least now the fans can feel seen.
I think one reason why fantasy adaptations fail is that the production team--maybe the writers, who knows---get so caught up in the fantasy that they forget about writing realistic characters. i really want to see writing on par with Sopranos or The Wire or Madmen in a fantasy show. give us more episodes and save the VFX budget for a few big moments. idk. With all these ten hour long movies, I just miss episodes of television.
If they want black people in their fantasy so much I don't understand why they don't just invent a few Summer Islander characters who live in Westoros as merchants or entertainers or sellswords or diplomats. I mean, you can justify having some "foreign" characters in Westoros in an intelligent way.
Omg. thank you Chris so much for not just incessantly praising HotD! it seems like sooo many in the ASOIAF sphere of content creators are just saying "Well its wasn't thaaaaat bad really." You really nailed it on the head and I appreciate you not being afraid to swim against the stream instead of just floating with the flow, even being willing to point out the flaws of HotD Season 1.
Nothing can be worse then how I felt watching the last episode of GOTs. I just wanted it to end before they ruined more characters. I couldn't even sit down I was so anxious and annoyed.
In my opinion, HOTD is a great adaptation. I understand that there are some changes that mess up the story from the original source material. But if you look at it from a certain standpoint, the story about it that we know from fire and blood is written from biased perspectives based on what the maester’s say. Of course, the maester’s can’t always be trusted or believed in Game of Thrones. Most likely what we’re seeing is the true version of the actual history from the dance of the dragons. One episode of the old Game of Thrones series brought up the subject of history when Jon and Ygritte talked about the wildlings attacking the wall and how many times they’ve done it over the centuries and have failed. He says that every boy and girl in the north knows the history. But Ygritte Makes a point of them being a part of the first men as well and that they were there at the same time as the North men when they erected the wall and we’re supposedly kicked out onto the other side. We don’t really know what actually happens. History can be biased by other parties that were involved. For all we know, the wildlings were possibly a secondary defense against the white walkers to assist the night’s watch, but then the history of that was lost to time and twisted by the northerner’s over the millennia.
I'm really glad this show didn't get made-- for all the obvious reasons-- but also because if the Age of Heroes is gonna be adapted into anything, it should be a video game. I feel like the World of Ice and Fire is screaming to be an MMO or RPG and that most magical of time periods would be the perfect setting!
That’s why it bothers me when the cast, in interviews, talk about how bad both sides are. It feels like they’re talking about a different story, and not the story being set up in the show. I wish it was!
I think the final season as a whole is the prime example of something (outside of problematic writing, etc) falling under the weight of it's own complexities and ideas. Also probably why Martin is having issues with the final two books, because he's going to have squeeze everything left into those, but also make it clear what the story is truly about and saying. Also, the final season needed to spread out into a redone season 8, 9, and 10.
Oh and may I say how ridiculous is to have at this time a marriage between a Casterly and a Stark!! just because people love the Starks it doesnt mean that a well written character from another house cant become a fan favorite, instead they wont come out of their confort zone and force things that dont even make sense!! why in the world would any of those Houses want to marry members of their family with each other when they dont get anything for it and actually weakens their position in their respectives geopolitical enviroment?? The Starks have yet to conquer all of the North, many families are still kings and look for any show of weakness to rebel, especially the Red Kings, instead of strengthening bonds with possible allies or nearby families they travel all the way down the neck to marry an outsider?? Oh and by the way, the Starks could be facing a civil war against the Greystark who later allied with the Boltons, (wich could make a better story imo) to marry with someone from a completely different kingdom that is located miles away with its own problems makes absolutely no sense.
Imagining a bunch of HBO execs getting to the part in Blood Moon where a group of white characters are cursed and replaced with all black actors, who then declare vengeance against all white people out of jealousy. Yeah, I'd also lock that shit up and throw away the key.
Blood Moon would have been a pile of 💩 as would Snow. HoTD had so much going for it but to be fair, the 💩 there doesn't entirely lie on the writers' shoulders, HBO also screwed them to the point where I can't see how S3 could work at all. Oh, what could go wrong with Dunk & Egg? The bloody books aren't finished and never will be!
I actually believe the andals were around in the tome period and were responsible for the long night in someway. George martin himself has stated the long night was actually 5000 years ago and that it occured when valyria was rising. Look up "the andals caused the long night" theres a cool series on youtube about it.
I would be interested in HotD if Alicent and Rhaenyra still end up being terrible in different ways -- both of them self-deluded and self-righteous, with Rhaenyra getting high on her own Valyrian supply and essentially becoming a religious cult figure. That would be very compelling to me! But I think they might not do that, which is unfortunate.
while i still don't fully agree that season 2 is an absolute trashfire i think the purpose of the story is lost on the writers to which i think a lot of people who are adapting works they artificially understand or want to commit to is the real failing of most if not all modern fantasy shows
I hate to tell the purist out there but what you got with game of thrones is as faithful of an adaptation as your gonna get for a TV show. And even big budget film is gonna cut and make compromises I think it’s time y’all got over it
Time to give my Hot Take: Game of Thrones was less faithful than HOTD to the intent of the source material and the reason people don't see it is because they have blinders on. HOTD for all it's flaws gets the basic lessons and themes right. The same cannot be said for GOT. GOT inverts and gets rid of important moments because they aren't cynical enough.
As someone whose an ardent believer in keeping adaptations AS FAITHFUL AS POSSIBLE to the source material, I was disappointed at the unneeded ethnic bending of the Velaryons; the Velaryons are related to the Targaryens as blood of Old Valyria and they SHOULD LOOK SIMILAR but they don't in HOTD, making the Strong boys miniplot even more stupid and dangerous!
I don't really care about that. You've got to be practical with TV shows, and making the Velaryons black was the least lore-breaking way to add diversity to the show. While they're definitely white in the books, there's really nothing saying they couldn't be black. The changes that bug me are the ones that actively make the story and characters worse, like aging up Alyn so much.
@@CrusaderChrisAs I said to my friends, “There are times where characters named Rhaenyra, Rhaenys, and Rhaena are on screen at the same time. They needed a way to differentiate them to people who are only watching the show because their partners are.”
@@CrusaderChris As a black woman, i honestly feel like they overlook a lot of the Velaryon plot and give the characters bad development/writing. Laena, Baela, Rhaena, and even Corlys did more in the books. that’s just my honest opinion, love your videos and all your opinions!!!
imo as shows HoTD and GoT are great shows overall (although HoTD s2 was dissapointing/filler like and GoT s7-8 sucked) as adaptations they.... Almost no adaptation can be exactly like the book, they are 2 entirely different media changes are bound to happen its just some changes are more innexcusable than others, in GoT's case killing off bariston selmy and the way they handled stannis at the end were innexcusable imo besides that majority of the big choices i can see some logic behind not including them (either budget, not translating well on the screen or simply not enough time)
Im glad it never saw the light of day, as im tired of screenwritter screwing up stories I love. They dont respect them, many times they were oblivious to its existance previously to getting involved in the proyect and are jut in to milk money out of such IP or worse, to use them as pamphlets to their ideology. Thats way at this point in time we cant expect any well written story exactly because of the many checkpoints any script has to go through; like cant portray female characters with any flaw among many others wich of course harm the overall ability to tell a compelling story
Blood moon seems the most boring show ever i would actually pay to not have to watch it , but they just fucked HOTD with s2 i just hope HBO realizes the mistake and try to do som about it.
GRRM can’t give you any spoilers for HotD, because he’s not involved with it. He says he’s seen an outline. I, too, have seen an outline, for ASOIAF. It did not spoil Cat’s death north of the Wall, or the Tyrion/Jon/Arya love triangle, because outlines change. (And the people adapting it are right about the Blood & Cheese change, unless George has turned into a hack during his dotage. The narrative presented in that book is mustache-twirling villainy worthy of maybe a bad superhero movie.)
Another reason is the fact that GRRM hadn't (and still hasn't) released TWOW, meaning that when D&D ran out of source material to adapt (as they had gotten ahead of the books), they basically ran with it from Season 5-8, leaving us with the dumpsterfire we have now and they've failed again with F&B for HOTD!
@@SirBogginsMaybe it could have been done by then. RR could have been inspired. We will never know. But we do know the show runners of GOT chose to leave out so many characters and story line. And opted to then mash whatever was left into 6 horrible episodes that make no sense.
They chose to not adapt tons of stuff from the books. Also they’re writers why couldn’t they come up with a satisfactory ending on their own there’s literally 5 books of content
The Andals did not necessarily come AFTER the Long Night. After all: 1. The pact didn't happen AFTER the Long Night. 2. The Andals broke the pact by chopping Wierwoods faster than the First Men. 3. Essos had a race similar to the children and hailing from the area in and around Andalos. 4. The Andals had a vested interest in writing history in a way that absolves them of responsibilityfor the Long Night. Side note: I harbour a strong disdain for anything Andal (their Flfaith included) so I'm VERY biased 😂
Fire & Blood is a terrible book that no one asked for, HOTD was destined to be trash. Hollywood ruins everything and George doesn’t care. He just wants a paycheque
What if the GRRM universe ends up like Batman or Spider-Man where every director adds their own spin to the story idk might be interesting. Blood moon sounds terrible though . And my unpopular opinion Dunk and egg is boring .
People have no idea how hard it is to get a show greenlit, let alone make one without tons of issues, problems, and roadblocks for one reason or another. These are massive productions, with hundreds and thousands of peoples lives moving around it, not one old fat guy sat in his small room. Let’s be real, if GRRM had just finished the original story, D&D would’ve followed that to the end. But once they saw the train tracks were running out, they had to set themselves up with more tracks to complete the story that they original guy hadn’t done for the six years.
@@J_Tevo The show deliberately ignored and jettisoned a ton of content from the books. They said themselves that they had access to Martin’s plans for the ending, the issue is that they left out so much shit from earlier that was meant to come back and be important. Young Griff, Book Euron, Stoneheart, etc are all very important plot lines they chose to throw out in favor of having Sansa get raped for no good reason
Oh no! The innocent poor David and Dan. It's not like they waterboarded a woman, pressured-creeped on female actors into having intimate scenes, turned a entire arc into pro-slavery apologia, and rewrote scenes to be sexist, ruining the intent of the scene.
I don’t care about any of this George can cry all he wants about HOTD season 2 where the fuck are the books he is supposed to finish if he had those done I would be on his side fighting against these writers. I hope this makes him upset it’s been 13 years 3 months and 9 days since A Dance With Dragons he is also the butterflies have your shit done and most of these issues aren’t issues.
So 9:20 you admit you can’t believe anything written down by the maesters but then you make complaints about how the story of the series is not faithful to the books. The book written from the pov of the maesters. They make up, the edit and they delete. They change the story to what they want. In reality the house of the dragon is the reality and more cannon version for the most part. Rather you love it or hate it
some of it is certainly more canon, but the existence of maelor, daeron and nettles is fact that can’t be debated. changing that disregards history more than the maesters ever could
Ow boy, I was really scared when you said "black actors were cast...", but it was a false alarm. I really enjoy this channel, it would've been a huge let down if you were one of *those* guys.
Scratch that, two seconds after I commented and unpaused the video you showed a clip of Corlys, talking about "controversial casting", you're doing a great job here man, you don't need to attract *that* kid of public.
My point isn’t that I have a problem with the Velaryons being black 💀 I’ve literally never said that. I was drawing a comparison to Bloodmoon about controversial casting.
Everyone in the books is a worse person but a better character.
I haven't read the book, but from what I have heard Daemon doesn't commit his Riverland war crimes and he isn't physically abusive toward Rhaenyra. I also heard that Aegon the second doesn't explicitly sa someone and doesn't have his bastards compete in child fights. I'm very curious if that is true if you know?
Daemon is worse in the show
That’s all correct. I was mainly talking about ASOIAF as we don’t get full characters in Fire & Blood.
@@eskilsvanlind169The book is written like a historical text by an in universe author who wasn’t alive when yhe events he’s writing actually happened, so he has to use multiple sources and cross reference them to determine what most likely happened like real life historians do. Wheras the show has to come up with what “actually” happened, but still stay within the confines of the historical text of Fire & Blood. They did a better job in season 1, but I think season 3 may be better because of all the complaints about season 2.
@niallgaffney2475 Okay yeah that makes sense
6:30 I think a lot of people forget George is NOT *just* a novelist - he himself is a screenwriter! The man is a literary great!
also i LOVE that you always edit the targs' purple eyes in. like see how easy it would be HBO??? 😫
Literally, with the budget they have compared to this UA-cam video. Please. It's ridiculous.
@@musakamara4157 I'm from the animation and vfx side of the film industry.
something more subtle and polished than what Chris does would take more time/money, but the fact that he does over the top saturated eyes I think really sells that YEAH HBO, WHY AREN"T YOU DOING THIS????!!!!!
I hope for Aegon the conqueror film they make the effort and just write it of as Alyssa Valerion's fault for polluting the pure targ blood Aenys the 1st had or even make it Rheyny's fault for being unfaithful to sterile Aegon and that's how they lost the purple eyes to stay in canon with the main show and not the books.
Have Magor be pure blood parthenogenesis-ed and purple eyed and rest of Aegon and Rhenys' kids to have blue/green eyes like the main series. done deal.
@@HisameArtwork The way Chris edits the purple eyes isn't really "over the top". It still looks believable because there definitely are other edits out there where the purple eyes are way too oversaturated and therefore look unrealistic.
It always cracks me up when you put Argentina besides westeros i mean I f***ing wish a dragon queen come here to save us 😂😅
did you get nazi already? why would magical nazis be any better? 😂😅
Last time I was this early, azor ahai had not yet ended the long night
regarding cat... The change in her response to ned going south may be more about losing context from her internal monologue than trying making the character more sympathetic in the show. Book cat is freaked out by the prophetic nature of the direwolf dying to the stag. Her thoughts tell us she is acting out of fear but keeping those fears from ned, the ambition she expresses is as much or more about convincing ned without burdening him as it is a real desire to see her children rule.
A race of short black people being being cursed into magical beings? Ahh Hollywood, your attempts at being diverse certainly something else.
After hearing that I'm glad it got cancelled.
@@nightfall3332 Yeah same.
@@nightfall3332 I kinda wanna see it tho, sounds pretty funny lol
It would have been certainly hilarious 🤣
You know what, I am a HOTD defender usually. But the point you made about the writers taking agency away from HOTD characters is something I never realized. It’s less interesting that they’re being forced by the plot to make their decisions rather than because of who they are as a character. Great video!
yeah it's my biggest gripe. oh queens good, men bad...ok...sure, 95% of violent crime is committed by men...today (tax fraud is equal opportunity). But it's a medieval setting and even so regardless of time if someone came after your kids, as a mother would you be this passive? Like why didn't we get more of stabby stabby Alicent?
The characters were waffling and inconsistent. Like pick a personality trait, and go. I rather have them be one dimensional than nothing.
I still remember when we were first hearing about Bloodmoon and how many people didn't understand that 'black people as non-humans' is incredibly racist.
for the same reason americans and japanese keep portraying our national hero as a blood thirsty monster at least stop calling that fiction Vlad the Impaler, or thai ppl keep making dancing hitler soda commercials.
though you'd expect more from european americans that have africans living among them. It's not like in East Europe or China where it's more likely to be struck by lightning than seeing one in the flesh.
Heres's an idea for a mini-series:
parents telling their children legends and stories of their respective houses. Like in House Arryn has the legend where the Winged Knight slew the Griffin King, or all the stories regarding Garth the Greenhand and his Children such Maris the Maid being so sought after that it resulted in the first ever tourney and Owen Oakenshield conquering Shield Islands driving selkies and merlings back to the sea.
Each episode could start at with live action before getting into the story where each episode has its own animation style to fit into the mood of the story and just so it can better fit the fantastical elements of each story.
Thought?
That sounds fun but HBO wants to continue the "dark and mature" vibe of game of thrones at any cost so I doubt they will ever do anything that fun and creative lol
@@Mahawww man that's a shame. Still it's a pretty good idea
@@misabelrodriguez1163 maybe they'll corner the youth market with Dunc n Egg...but I heard they wanna make that gritty too, sigh.
It could have been a great gate way drug for kids. I waited 5 years for my baby siblings to be over 18 to show them GOT and the Witcher games. I got my brother on GOT when he was almost 20 iirc, and I recently got my sister with HOTD.
I taught kids before cvid bankrupted the private school I was at and to my surprise kids as young as 12 watched GOT. I'm not ok with that. Their parents didn't know, usually and older sibling teen, would get them into it.
I'm all in for quality cinema but it has to be age appropriate. As a kid I watched in secret horror and porn I shouldn't have watched while my parents were away . And I'm afraid of clowns now, IT scarred me for life. What happened to kids that watched Danny's wedding ... can't be good.
Get ready to see dunk and egg crash and burn. Will it be the two of them hanging out in brothels (D&D style) or having a forbidden romance (HotD style). Stay tuned to find out
Crazy that one can rack up a bill in the millions before realizing and/or being told that it simply sucks ou that it would not work.
HOT D season 1 was great. Season 2 had its moments but it was mostly bad. Between that lackluster season 2 finale and GRRM's now deleted blog post, I'm not excited for S3 and am cautious about Dunk and Egg
If Sunfire is actually not around anymore to bbq little Aegon's mother before his eyes as the catalyst event that effected Aegon's ability to form relationships which contributed to family trauma that passed all the way down to cause Aegon 4th to be a twat that swapped dragon eggs for maidenheads.. which is a key part of the upcoming Dunc and Egg story.. the shred of hope will spontaneously combust.
I think I'll laugh my a off.
Aegon the 4th swapped dragon eggs to sleep with maidens, Aegon the 5th ended up killing most of his family trying to hatch dragon eggs.
Yep. I'm done with HotD after season 2.
Game of Thrones was, at best, an amazing show for half of its run (and I'm being generous here).
“Let’s just cast black people as children of the forest, then explain a magical curse turned them into elves, then do no focus groups or other internal screenings with the studio - what’s the worst that could happen?
Not to mention Daemon choosing to bend the knee to Rhaenyra only after seeing the weirdos tree prophecy is a complete assassination of his character trajectory within the show as well. Daemon apparently has no agency who can develop as a character on his own because apparently he needs this Season 8 whitewalker homage in order to finally allow him to see the light? Such BS writing
Anyway, great video!
I just do get it. There is a reason why the source material was sold and popular. Why change it in major ways.
Because they want their own story on screen, so the name simply becomes a vehicle for that. Would the same story absent the brand recognition garner as much attention?
Because writers are creative people who want to tell their own stories, but they're hired by studios to write existing stories from "safe" IPs, so in many cases they will work towards adapting these stories to something *they* wanted to write. Sometimes it works, but often we get a bastardised version of the story as a result that is worse than the sum of its parts.
A person who just wants to faithfully recreate books probably isn’t going into writing tv shows.
Cuz their egos are weirdly bloated nowadays, even if they don’t want to write for adaptations they can still build reputations to make their own stories. D&D at their prime were offered to make their own Star Wars after all
Can't really say personally if HOTD is a good adaptation having not read the books myself but damn do the characters sound more engaging. That being said, I do enjoy what I'm watching
that last season of GOT really crapped the bed. It killed me i looked forward to it for so long.
HOTD writers like the typical writer nowadays struggle with with circular reasoning.
I'd argue as good as the game of thrones show was it actually wasn't a good ASOIAF adaptation it removed a large amount of fantasy elements and quite a lot of personality traits from the characters, it was a good fantasy/medieval show but in terms of adapting George Martins masterpiece I think it left quite a lot to be desired, now if there was ever an animated series I think that medium would be perfect for adapting the story faithfully.
Tbh hotd s2 with all of it's flaws is no where near the disaster of later seasons of got
True. I still think HOTD season 2 was good tv, but a bad adaptation. Whereas season 8 wasn’t even good tv 😭
@@CrusaderChris True , most ppl i have seen criticize s2 for not including battle of gullet or daemon's arc. however as book fan i was so hyped to finally see magic being adapted so idk.
@CrusaderChris why do you think it was good tv?
@lukemitchell8182 I made 8 videos about it..
@@lukemitchell8182because it was good tv look at what was coming out at the time and compare!
The red queen's impotent interruption of the coronation and the nettles removal has me livid, the coronation interruption was pointless it seemed like they were just trying to spend their Dragon CGI budget, it was absolutely nonsensical, and I feel like Nettles has a point in the story. In my mind the character exists to bring into question the notion of special dragon blood, that perhaps they might have been some blood magicks used to make valyrians more able to bond with dragons something akin to warging magic but as dragons are animals while vicious ones they're essentially domesticated as was done with sheep stealer and perhaps the Incest while might have something to do with preserving the blood magick might also have more to do with the idea of consolidating power because marrying out dragon riders gives dragon riding power to other families but keeping dragon riders within the family sees you having a dragon monopoly
Shame good material gets cursed SO badly
I remember it being announced and saying "Thats really not going to work, there's just not enough material and the material that is there isn't conductive to being expanded that much..." so yeah hearing they were going to do a weird troy-andals-v-black-people thing makes me relieved it was cancelled.
The last time I was this early, HOTD was still a decent show!
After Rheana Targaryen got turned into Nettles, I expect Hollywood to portray diversity as accurate as a typical Disney live action reboot. At least now the fans can feel seen.
Oh, I totally agree with your stuff on Season 1, House of the Dragon. I would also add the Velaryons to the mix.
Nailed it. I don't go to see a cover band's adaptation of the music I know and love, I go to hear the replica.
All I know is, there was talk of a Jon Snow adaptation at one point, and I kept thinking "it's just gonna be The Jon Snow Show."
I think one reason why fantasy adaptations fail is that the production team--maybe the writers, who knows---get so caught up in the fantasy that they forget about writing realistic characters. i really want to see writing on par with Sopranos or The Wire or Madmen in a fantasy show. give us more episodes and save the VFX budget for a few big moments. idk. With all these ten hour long movies, I just miss episodes of television.
The beginning of Game of Thrones was fantastic for that. D&D did a great job (for the most part) adapting the first few books.
Blood Moon sounds like a dodged bullet for all that having a story set in that era would be cool.
If they want black people in their fantasy so much I don't understand why they don't just invent a few Summer Islander characters who live in Westoros as merchants or entertainers or sellswords or diplomats. I mean, you can justify having some "foreign" characters in Westoros in an intelligent way.
True, a easy 😅 answer.
Omg. thank you Chris so much for not just incessantly praising HotD! it seems like sooo many in the ASOIAF sphere of content creators are just saying "Well its wasn't thaaaaat bad really." You really nailed it on the head and I appreciate you not being afraid to swim against the stream instead of just floating with the flow, even being willing to point out the flaws of HotD Season 1.
$30 MILLION DOLLARS??? bro... they could have just posted and test ran their trash on AO3 for FREE
Nothing can be worse then how I felt watching the last episode of GOTs. I just wanted it to end before they ruined more characters. I couldn't even sit down I was so anxious and annoyed.
In my opinion, HOTD is a great adaptation. I understand that there are some changes that mess up the story from the original source material. But if you look at it from a certain standpoint, the story about it that we know from fire and blood is written from biased perspectives based on what the maester’s say.
Of course, the maester’s can’t always be trusted or believed in Game of Thrones. Most likely what we’re seeing is the true version of the actual history from the dance of the dragons. One episode of the old Game of Thrones series brought up the subject of history when Jon and Ygritte talked about the wildlings attacking the wall and how many times they’ve done it over the centuries and have failed. He says that every boy and girl in the north knows the history. But Ygritte Makes a point of them being a part of the first men as well and that they were there at the same time as the North men when they erected the wall and we’re supposedly kicked out onto the other side.
We don’t really know what actually happens. History can be biased by other parties that were involved. For all we know, the wildlings were possibly a secondary defense against the white walkers to assist the night’s watch, but then the history of that was lost to time and twisted by the northerner’s over the millennia.
Redo them all.
And do them 💯 to the books.
Dude ignoring the whole point of the video
I'm really glad this show didn't get made-- for all the obvious reasons-- but also because if the Age of Heroes is gonna be adapted into anything, it should be a video game. I feel like the World of Ice and Fire is screaming to be an MMO or RPG and that most magical of time periods would be the perfect setting!
That’s why it bothers me when the cast, in interviews, talk about how bad both sides are. It feels like they’re talking about a different story, and not the story being set up in the show. I wish it was!
I don't know how turning all non-basic lands into mountains would cause the long night but sure
Can i just say that the mockup of the blood moon logo is sick
I'm sorry that you attracted a certain crowd with this video Chris. Better luck next video.
Weird people watch my videos about the tv shows 🤷♂️ it’s why I mainly stick to book topics
I think the final season as a whole is the prime example of something (outside of problematic writing, etc) falling under the weight of it's own complexities and ideas. Also probably why Martin is having issues with the final two books, because he's going to have squeeze everything left into those, but also make it clear what the story is truly about and saying.
Also, the final season needed to spread out into a redone season 8, 9, and 10.
Oh and may I say how ridiculous is to have at this time a marriage between a Casterly and a Stark!! just because people love the Starks it doesnt mean that a well written character from another house cant become a fan favorite, instead they wont come out of their confort zone and force things that dont even make sense!!
why in the world would any of those Houses want to marry members of their family with each other when they dont get anything for it and actually weakens their position in their respectives geopolitical enviroment??
The Starks have yet to conquer all of the North, many families are still kings and look for any show of weakness to rebel, especially the Red Kings, instead of strengthening bonds with possible allies or nearby families they travel all the way down the neck to marry an outsider??
Oh and by the way, the Starks could be facing a civil war against the Greystark who later allied with the Boltons, (wich could make a better story imo) to marry with someone from a completely different kingdom that is located miles away with its own problems makes absolutely no sense.
Imagining a bunch of HBO execs getting to the part in Blood Moon where a group of white characters are cursed and replaced with all black actors, who then declare vengeance against all white people out of jealousy. Yeah, I'd also lock that shit up and throw away the key.
Blood Moon would have been a pile of 💩 as would Snow. HoTD had so much going for it but to be fair, the 💩 there doesn't entirely lie on the writers' shoulders, HBO also screwed them to the point where I can't see how S3 could work at all. Oh, what could go wrong with Dunk & Egg? The bloody books aren't finished and never will be!
Leave it to millennial writers to not understand the importance of nuance
I actually believe the andals were around in the tome period and were responsible for the long night in someway. George martin himself has stated the long night was actually 5000 years ago and that it occured when valyria was rising. Look up "the andals caused the long night" theres a cool series on youtube about it.
I would be interested in HotD if Alicent and Rhaenyra still end up being terrible in different ways -- both of them self-deluded and self-righteous, with Rhaenyra getting high on her own Valyrian supply and essentially becoming a religious cult figure. That would be very compelling to me!
But I think they might not do that, which is unfortunate.
It’s for the best that HoTD failed in season 2. It prevents wasting time with this weird crap.
while i still don't fully agree that season 2 is an absolute trashfire i think the purpose of the story is lost on the writers to which i think a lot of people who are adapting works they artificially understand or want to commit to is the real failing of most if not all modern fantasy shows
redlettermedia mentioned rahhhh
I hate to tell the purist out there but what you got with game of thrones is as faithful of an adaptation as your gonna get for a TV show. And even big budget film is gonna cut and make compromises
I think it’s time y’all got over it
Time to give my Hot Take:
Game of Thrones was less faithful than HOTD to the intent of the source material and the reason people don't see it is because they have blinders on.
HOTD for all it's flaws gets the basic lessons and themes right. The same cannot be said for GOT. GOT inverts and gets rid of important moments because they aren't cynical enough.
Starkoros! It is known 😂
As someone whose an ardent believer in keeping adaptations AS FAITHFUL AS POSSIBLE to the source material, I was disappointed at the unneeded ethnic bending of the Velaryons; the Velaryons are related to the Targaryens as blood of Old Valyria and they SHOULD LOOK SIMILAR but they don't in HOTD, making the Strong boys miniplot even more stupid and dangerous!
I don't really care about that. You've got to be practical with TV shows, and making the Velaryons black was the least lore-breaking way to add diversity to the show. While they're definitely white in the books, there's really nothing saying they couldn't be black. The changes that bug me are the ones that actively make the story and characters worse, like aging up Alyn so much.
@@CrusaderChris Yea, Alyn's voice is way too deep and it'll make his relationship with Baela seem really off...
Who gives a shit
@@CrusaderChrisAs I said to my friends, “There are times where characters named Rhaenyra, Rhaenys, and Rhaena are on screen at the same time. They needed a way to differentiate them to people who are only watching the show because their partners are.”
@@CrusaderChris As a black woman, i honestly feel like they overlook a lot of the Velaryon plot and give the characters bad development/writing. Laena, Baela, Rhaena, and even Corlys did more in the books. that’s just my honest opinion, love your videos and all your opinions!!!
Love your content! Thanks For this ❤❤❤
Starkeros Propoganda? LOVE IT 😍😍😍
2:15 Did you?
Three times is the charm. The Hegde Knight will be third.
13:38 white walker's are white - crusader Chris
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imo as shows HoTD and GoT are great shows overall (although HoTD s2 was dissapointing/filler like and GoT s7-8 sucked) as adaptations they....
Almost no adaptation can be exactly like the book, they are 2 entirely different media changes are bound to happen its just some changes are more innexcusable than others, in GoT's case killing off bariston selmy and the way they handled stannis at the end were innexcusable imo besides that majority of the big choices i can see some logic behind not including them (either budget, not translating well on the screen or simply not enough time)
Im glad it never saw the light of day, as im tired of screenwritter screwing up stories I love. They dont respect them, many times they were oblivious to its existance previously to getting involved in the proyect and are jut in to milk money out of such IP or worse, to use them as pamphlets to their ideology.
Thats way at this point in time we cant expect any well written story exactly because of the many checkpoints any script has to go through; like cant portray female characters with any flaw among many others wich of course harm the overall ability to tell a compelling story
Blood moon seems the most boring show ever i would actually pay to not have to watch it , but they just fucked HOTD with s2 i just hope HBO realizes the mistake and try to do som about it.
GRRM can’t give you any spoilers for HotD, because he’s not involved with it. He says he’s seen an outline. I, too, have seen an outline, for ASOIAF. It did not spoil Cat’s death north of the Wall, or the Tyrion/Jon/Arya love triangle, because outlines change. (And the people adapting it are right about the Blood & Cheese change, unless George has turned into a hack during his dotage. The narrative presented in that book is mustache-twirling villainy worthy of maybe a bad superhero movie.)
Early ganggggg, didn't even need those notifications Bois
Another reason is the fact that GRRM hadn't (and still hasn't) released TWOW, meaning that when D&D ran out of source material to adapt (as they had gotten ahead of the books), they basically ran with it from Season 5-8, leaving us with the dumpsterfire we have now and they've failed again with F&B for HOTD!
They didn’t run out of material. They chose to discard a book and a half worth of Material. Show could have ran for 10 more seasons.
@@10bunks12 But without TWOW to adapt...
@@SirBogginsMaybe it could have been done by then. RR could have been inspired. We will never know. But we do know the show runners of GOT chose to leave out so many characters and story line.
And opted to then mash whatever was left into 6 horrible episodes that make no sense.
They chose to not adapt tons of stuff from the books. Also they’re writers why couldn’t they come up with a satisfactory ending on their own there’s literally 5 books of content
@@10bunks12 🤕
The Andals did not necessarily come AFTER the Long Night. After all:
1. The pact didn't happen AFTER the Long Night.
2. The Andals broke the pact by chopping Wierwoods faster than the First Men.
3. Essos had a race similar to the children and hailing from the area in and around Andalos.
4. The Andals had a vested interest in writing history in a way that absolves them of responsibilityfor the Long Night.
Side note: I harbour a strong disdain for anything Andal (their Flfaith included) so I'm VERY biased 😂
Youre a legend
Fire & Blood is a terrible book that no one asked for, HOTD was destined to be trash. Hollywood ruins everything and George doesn’t care. He just wants a paycheque
What if the GRRM universe ends up like Batman or Spider-Man where every director adds their own spin to the story idk might be interesting. Blood moon sounds terrible though . And my unpopular opinion Dunk and egg is boring .
People have no idea how hard it is to get a show greenlit, let alone make one without tons of issues, problems, and roadblocks for one reason or another.
These are massive productions, with hundreds and thousands of peoples lives moving around it, not one old fat guy sat in his small room.
Let’s be real, if GRRM had just finished the original story, D&D would’ve followed that to the end. But once they saw the train tracks were running out, they had to set themselves up with more tracks to complete the story that they original guy hadn’t done for the six years.
@@J_Tevo The show deliberately ignored and jettisoned a ton of content from the books. They said themselves that they had access to Martin’s plans for the ending, the issue is that they left out so much shit from earlier that was meant to come back and be important. Young Griff, Book Euron, Stoneheart, etc are all very important plot lines they chose to throw out in favor of having Sansa get raped for no good reason
i strongly believe that george raymond richard martin is not the only person in the world who can write
Oh no! The innocent poor David and Dan. It's not like they waterboarded a woman, pressured-creeped on female actors into having intimate scenes, turned a entire arc into pro-slavery apologia, and rewrote scenes to be sexist, ruining the intent of the scene.
I don’t care about any of this George can cry all he wants about HOTD season 2 where the fuck are the books he is supposed to finish if he had those done I would be on his side fighting against these writers. I hope this makes him upset it’s been 13 years 3 months and 9 days since A Dance With Dragons he is also the butterflies have your shit done and most of these issues aren’t issues.
So 9:20 you admit you can’t believe anything written down by the maesters but then you make complaints about how the story of the series is not faithful to the books. The book written from the pov of the maesters. They make up, the edit and they delete. They change the story to what they want. In reality the house of the dragon is the reality and more cannon version for the most part. Rather you love it or hate it
House of the Dragon is HBO canon. It’s an adaptation. It can’t be 100% canon to the books
some of it is certainly more canon, but the existence of maelor, daeron and nettles is fact that can’t be debated. changing that disregards history more than the maesters ever could
First
Ow boy, I was really scared when you said "black actors were cast...", but it was a false alarm. I really enjoy this channel, it would've been a huge let down if you were one of *those* guys.
Scratch that, two seconds after I commented and unpaused the video you showed a clip of Corlys, talking about "controversial casting", you're doing a great job here man, you don't need to attract *that* kid of public.
My point isn’t that I have a problem with the Velaryons being black 💀 I’ve literally never said that. I was drawing a comparison to Bloodmoon about controversial casting.
@@CrusaderChris my bad then.
0:20 "altmost its entire run" more like half of itts run
let’s hope they re-use naomi watts and cast her as a targaryen 🥲
I knoww I was so hyped for her and Jamie Campbell Bower. She’d make a great Alysanne, or even Valaena or Alyssa Velaryon idk.
damn am early!