IMO this is 100% on the game devs. Programs to remap input devices have existed for decades, when assists are disabled there should be no silent advantage for controllers, fake or real. Blaming drivers for how they configure hardware when not at LAN events is absurd.
This type of logic also means that because it is possible to illegally buy guns you think that you shouldn't blame a gang member when he kills a family of 4 during an attempted robbery. Get your head on straight.
That's definitely not 100% one devs. Just like XIM if you play apex legends. That's 100% illegal and people are tricking the software and it's hard for devs to get a solution. It's cheating fs
Based opinion. How is it not cheating, there going to download extra programs to have this advantage. There pedal would work just fine without. To me 100% cheating. Heard about this last week and tried it ans gained like .3 on most tracks. I was allready a top 300ish on all tracks without. 1st day I tried it got like top 100 on 4 of 5 tracks. The traction advantage is insane
If everyone can do it its not cheating, its always upto the hosts of the competition to make sure there is no cheating. EA and CodeE are also the hosts since its their game. Cheating is gaining an unfair advantage, its not unfair if everyone has access and its common knowledge. The case here is that while the 60fps thing is not cheating imo, anything else they discussed is.
@@MarcelKiefer I was playing F1 2022 and on that game in particular I beat everyone on traction with pad, I beat even a top 5 player on Zandvoort because I completed my overtake thanks to pad traction 😂
Didn’t Ronhaar use a Fanatec base with Logitech pedals during the F1 22 Esports? If so, he would have needed to directly connect them to the PC via USB as the Fanatec base wouldn’t recognise them…
So what? Lol. I think there are more people that mix brands on PC. That's the good thing about playing on PC compared to console. And also at the LAN event, I'm pretty sure they used the same equipment and he was still one of the quickest. I think if there's someone that came out more suspicious out of this it would be Blakely. He finished more than 100 points behind Freddy (I don't think je was really strong at any of the events) suddenly when it went to LAN, after winning the championship pretty the year before. Ronhaar was quick and fighting for the championship both years (online and LAN). I don't know what's the obsession with accusing or insinuating Ronhaar specifically a cheater...
@@revirdkcalb Somehow people love to single out a guy and try to frame him as a cheater based on little to no evidence for really anything. Ronhaar likely never cheated as we can see with his insane performance in LAN events right now.
@@revirdkcalb Clearly you are missing the point and even contradicting yourself in your reply lol. Do you understand how event sponsorship works dude ? The drivers are supposed to use Fanatec equipment as they are one of the main sponsors, whereas Ronhaar broke that rule and some drivers complained about it - why he was permitted to use different pedals only the organisers can answer! But by doing so it allows him to directly connect the pedals to the PC and the potential to use said advantage. Is this advantage regarded as a hack or a cheat in the same way as a grip hack ? Would the organisers be looking for this specific advantage if they inspected someone’s PC ? like they did with Ronhaar’s. If you watched the eSports races for F1 22, you will remember drivers for the main teams were all in the Team HQ (McLaren, Mercedes, RedBull, Ferrari etc), whilst Ronhaar was playing in his bedroom…he has always been a quick driver, but not 2 tenths quicker than anyone else and he certainly isn’t as fast since the 2022 game!
that f1 esports account is so laughable. literally just going back to every past champion since 2020 and claiming they "most likely" cheated with no evidence. the only one that seems like they probably cheated in some way is Ronhaar that year he was like 2/10s faster than everyone on every single track and no one could figure it out.
@@alexstavik lmao I never claimed he isn’t quick. All these drivers are quick on F1 and other racing games…that doesn’t mean he didn’t cheat on F1 for a small advantage
As long as there is financial gain, there will always be cheating involved. Shouldn't be shocking news. Its on the organizers not the drivers. There is no point going back to last years, they cant prove anything. They should focus on restoring the esports reputation, as it stands it cant get worse.
@@GoodFeelingsCore pretty sure he was running a lower downforce setup in most tracks compared to the others but still somehow got to full throttle faster with 0 wheelspin 🤔
Nah Ronhaar was on some different shit. He was faster on hards, saving battery and taking safe corners than people running all they battery and exceeding track limits.
@@GoodFeelingsCore You must be delusional to make that statement. He was playing a different game at times. Worse compound, higher tyre wear, lower battery, but faster than everyone else in the corners AND on the straight. Sounds legit.
EA would prefer to cater to casuals to grow their market and make more money, so I have a feeling they won't bother to fix this issue where they are giving controller players a free advantage. To me if you care about competitive integrity and the development of e-sports/sim racing you would just not give controller players extra grip. It's the same scenario with games like Call of Duty, where you can use a gamepad and have aim assist, but it's not "cheating", even though it really is. By definition, it's artificial assistance that gives you an inherent advantage.
They can just make this a setting instead like any other assist so it can be banned by league organiser. Not really that hard to solve but not sure if EA cares enough to fix it.
mate controller players are no where near the pace of wheel so its doesnt change anything in the competitive scene the only thing what changes is that the wheel players are trying to exploid it, controller players need them assist for the average player otherwise controller would be impossible to play on f1. i do think it should be a setting to remove those assist in competitive
I agree with Kian. It is not anything external. Joytokey is just a mapping software and has nothing to do with f1, traction or anything else. You can actually do this even without it by just messing with the right in game settings. For me it is the same way of "cheating" as driving on grass on some tracks to gain better top speed. That is also an exploit, but it is 100% ingame mechanic Just some words that crossed my mind after writing this : Esport teams spend so many hours on the game that every exploit or glitch is always known to all of the teams before the start of f1 esports so nobody gains an advantage and nobody complains about it. This time it looks like not all teams/drivers knew about it and are kinda mad so they try to label this exploit as cheating.
Yeah I agree and I would argue it's part of the preparation grind to find out ways to maximize laptimes using game mechanics. And I am very certain it is a game mechanic that can be used without the external software, which would also explain how it can be used in LAN events.
Made himself look a little silly with the "I think it might be a virus" comment too... It's software that's existed for I'm pretty sure over a decade It makes sense that you can do it without external software too, because LAN event organisers have to be abysmal for players to be able to install software on the stage PC, everyone that's ever had a school or workplace provided laptop knows that's a thing, it shouldn't be possible for that to happen at a LAN unless it's being organised by apprentices lmao
@@TheCynicalJedi The virus comment is not silly, if you're not sure of the software (which is the case for Marcel here), don't download it. Good rule of thumb to have on the internet.
I think you should get racing again. You were the first person I followed and leaned to drive without assists using your videos. I think the standard of driving is better at the moment, some of the problem was probably to do with the damage to your confidence. 2022 was a very bad year, I think there was one very prominent cheat, but he stopped for the following year. I don’t think you could exploit on a LAN when the equipment is not your own, the difference in performance would be greater between league and esports. The standard of driving was pretty appalling last year in the leagues and then the esports was a bit of a joke with glitches in the game during esport.
@@TheGamingMemoriesArchive Most assists aren't available above rookie/D license in iRacing (unless they are needed due to physical disability). There are some gearbox assists, but they generally have a small time penalty in gear change times (aside from full manual, but with anti-stall).
@@TheGamingMemoriesArchive You can’t use assists in League Series or Official races over C class licenses. Only the lower licensed classes can use the assists but they do not have a multitude of assists like in the F1 game such as automatic DRS, ERS, Brake Lockup assist, Traction Control and on and on. You can use a driving line in the lower classes for Formula series that’s pretty much it. In road series you have more in car adjustments available with brake bias, fuel mapping, ABS adjustment, TC level but that’s all for road series racing like GT3/GT4 LMP3. Formula racing you have no TC or ABS just like IRL you do have brake bias. And if your in a Open series you can make adjustments to your setup like suspension, aero etc, Fixed series you all have the same setup.
Qualifying and Racing in Esports should be done with wheel and pedal only. That is afterall whats used for finals. Maybe throw away wheels and force all to use pads in official competitions. Any form of exploits without setups should be considered cheating.
There’s a simple solution to this that keeps pad players with their advantage, just have people view telemetry of drivers race and if there is anything that suggests they are getting on the power way to easily and such they get flagged. It’s the same thing Iracing does for their pro series and it works like a charm.
Same as Fighting games with Hitboxes or leverless pads. Their solution was to eliminate predominating directions when pressing opposite keys/buttons, as they now will default to Neutral
So during the LAN event the teams where allowed to make installations to the PCs? I thought it was all setup in advance and they just made in game settings (wheel, force feedback etc.). The whole point with a LAN event would be to compete on fully equal equipment so why on earth would they allow them to?
We have a rookie in our league absolutely destroying our lap times with a pad. He has no assists but is very consistent. On Racenet, it's difficult for me to keep pace with in input on throttle and brake. I've equated this to the short throw of the triggers compared my pedals. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt, but even after increasing my pedal saturation, I'm still lacking significantly. Also, I've been Sim racing since 2007.
This is happening in almost every online multiplayer game which is a real shame for the gaming industry, not just E-Sports. You can no longer trust people we compete with anymore and yes, I also believe that competitive/LAN should be done on console.
gutted the truth will 99% never come out however this explains like you said, the lucas bahrain lap and even the ronhaar one shot quali lap on 22 at bahrain. also, if we could somehow get the setups they were running then I think it would 100% clear/unclear stuff up
An easy solution would be that the person hosting the lobby could see the input devices used and question the drivers about it, in addition to that option, would be nice to have a toggly that could turn the assist for control off completely. or just have this last option there would probably stop it. Yes in theory the software would get an update to simulate the device too, but that would be eliminated by the addition, that would controller users a big disadvantage, but this would most likely be used by high level and money winning competition anyways and I doubt there are any controller users there. But please correct me if I'm wrong. I've no idea how I got here but great video tho, didnt know this was all going on! Cheers
Another thing in F1 games is that when I use my controller the moment I get any kind of track limits violation it turns on auto steer. It's made the game kind of unplayable for me. Like I can go much faster but it feels awful to drive. I lookee up solutions online but couldnt find anything on it. It's making me feel crazy. Probably aren't many pc controller players but I have joint problems for my shoulders and a controller just works better.
100% all the esport teams know about the hacks where you can increase grip, ERS, they will have all downloaded and tested it on a separate PC, it takes like 30 seconds to find and minutes to get up and running
A sport I once loved 😢. Even if this turns out to not be true it has ruined the reputation permanently of f1 esports. The fact you can't rule it out shows that at the very least the processes for assessing cheating need to be seriously looked at. Such a shame.
btw whats up with the overtake button keybind changing to unassigned, I still have no idea whats up with that, almost as if someone could change the config on the fly to make the game recognize a different input method or something or some other macro bullshit
yes I have always thought that people might try somehow to get pad traction with a steering wheel. I think its been like from 2016 that pad have build in tc which helps them. Thank god I have not driven any competetive races on PC. Even on console you could actually "exploit" it at the race starts. Do your start with a game pad and then change to wheel as soon you are on full throttle 4th or 5th gear.
I always there was something to pc users being faster than console even though it’s the same equipment. This is ridiculous and just makes me not want to play the game at all . As a league racer and a fan of sim racing, this is heartbreaking
I’ve always thought since F1 23 that using ABS and TC while using a controller is OP compared to no assists on a wheel like how I play. In a league I raced in, I was mid pack at best, and I’m not slow by any means (consistently inside the top 5-10% at every track on TT) and then we ran a no assists race with the same grid and I just destroyed everybody. ABS and TC are OP and I’m sick of people abusing it.
Im sorry but if youre top 5/10% on time trail the difference is just the easier driving of the assists, at those standings youre not driving on the limit
Honestly whole F1 esports should be cancelled until literally the game is sorted. So many issues with F1 games in recent years and unfortunately if one or more esport players used cheats as way of gaining advantage over the rest it really wouldn’t shock me. The game itself if a terrible product and unfortunately F1 Esports reputation has been destroyed. It’s been destroyed through mismanagement from FOM side It’s been destroyed through the game just been absolutely terrible to play It’s been destroyed through the fact the no anti cheat system in place to prevent anyone from cheating. Given the whole shit show to put it politely literally whole thing is just become a yearly farce and a message needs to be sent to EA, to Codemasters and the people at top of F1 that this needs fixing or no point of holding any esports competition.
Ngl as Someone not involved with f1/f1-esports, I gotta say this situation is just stupid. If the game gives the possibility to use something like this, UNLESS specifically stated, it should be allowed. Looking at this it’s just an exploit, not a cheat. It’s not that deep for codies to get a hold of some Programm being able to protect that, other games do aswell. Still its a scummy move by pros, yet it’s the pro scene, everyone is gonna do anything to get that little advantage, then it’s up to Codies to do sumn! That being said I don’t support any of this bs……. At the end of the day ppl take this shit way too serious and should just think about why we do this stupid fake racing hobby at all
Marcel, What you said at 18:19 till 19:43 was the exact thing i would've said and i 100% with certainty respect your decision from taking a break from all of this mess, because its all bull...like how can you not put an anti-cheat system knowingly your putting high stakes rewards on the line, and lets not ignore the fact that you lads are risking your future for this that's all.
Yesh the controller thing people don't get. Yes the controller can have more traction but you can't be faster then a wheel becausw the wheel is more precise. But that is messed up people can exploit the pedals. Then you have all the extra precision and more traction now that is an advantage.
I forgot the specifics but back in Black Ops 3 on PC you could have your KBM and a controller plugged into your PC and the game would give you controller aim assist while using KBM. Seems like a fairly similar situation and definitely sounds extremely close to cheating. At the very least its very scummy to use.
It's not a virus Marcel, you can try it I had been using on my flight sim setup it's just an open source tool that convert axis input to simulate joystick input
dont blame yourself and overthink about it. if you did 100% from yourself in the past you should be proud, doesn't matter if they cheat or not. Since I'm not comparing myself with the others, I do not overthink my life is just easier and better. Cheers Marcel, you were great f1 esports drive, nobody who is here some time now will never consider this
I have seen a lot of opinions here and I agree inpart with all of them. Cheating in sports is always present, and to combat it there are governing bodies. The sportsperson is expected to compete fairly at the same time it is also expected that not everyone will. Instead of arguing what is considered cheating or not, there should be a governing body which votes on such disputes and resolves them with guidelines and code of conduct. If you as an organizer are handing out money but not conducting a fairness evaluation you cant come back and ask for you money back, and you open yourself to participants accusing others. I just hope there is governing body setup which goes through extensive testing, but for all that we need a lot more money in esports especially F1
I’m confused and maybe someone in here could answer this. I am on PS5 using Fanatec V3 pedals. There is a dead spot on the pedal to game that has about 15-20 percent dead zone on the throttle when depressed and the car doesn’t move on screen. How is it a joystick game pad can be more accurate than $400 dollar pedals???
I had a similar problem too mate If you look on the right hand side of the throttle pedal there is a sensor This had moved slightly hence the dead spot In my case I loosened it slightly and twisted it towards me ever so slightly Hope this helps👍🏻
This btw is/was possible on console on f1 2018 I used to play on Xbox and if you plug a controller in over usb and play on wheel and make a weird combination on turning off the wheel and controller you could get the same result then this software I can’t remember how I did it but you can feel the effect massively in traction braking and steering input as you got more front end grip same was defo possible on 2019 and since 2020 I switched to pc for obvious reasons (way to less players on Xbox) and since switching I struggle a bit I’m still happy with my pace but something was missing watched some Esports drivers pov and it looked like they have basically another tc in the car with more grip as well even if I try to accelerate full at the exact same spot then them with the setup with the same steering input I spin if I try and brake where they brake I lock the rears … I think it’s not just the software I think it’s a game issue because the game doesn’t know with what the person is driving now
If it’s an advantage you are quietly exploiting then you are cheating the players who don’t use this or may not know it. If true, it clear there’s a reason why these players wouldn’t share this info
Cheating = using any form of exploit that gives them an advantage that is not intended or not meant to be there. I say explopit in that because cheats is exploiting external code to affect the game, just because the code comes from in the game, or there is a bug in the code, it's still an exploit and a unfair advantage when people use it (think of item duping in mmo's etc) its a bug in the internal code, but its considered cheating if u exploit the bug.
We need to separate gamers who play on Controller and gamers who play on Wheel. You know how demotivating it is as a controller player to look at the leaderboard and see times that are actually impossible to achieve? No wonder there are people that cheat in these games. The device you use can give you an advantage, the equipment you use, can give you an advantage then only does "Skill" join the chat. So the guy that doesn't have money can only download a free app to even be remotely competitive. But that's just my 2 cents.
This People always turn to the exceptional controller players and, while its true, it truly is demotivating to think: damn, I really have to either be a god on a pad, or spend over 4k on a simracing setup, if your country is even able to deliver those, train like a mad man on it, plus the pc for it.
That F1 24 Esports News guy is the biggest tumour in the F1 Esports community. I've had him blocked for so long because all he does is spout rumours for engagements and when people don't believe him he starts arguing with them. He's not a good news source and he should've changed his name to his own name as a journalist like EvH and others ages ago. This guy needs to be blocked by everyone. Do not follow him.
If you use a setting embedded into the game itself that hasn't been explicitly stated you cannot change, it isn't cheating. Like running the game on a lower frame rate to have the cars be able to take kerbs better. But running external software to increase grip? 100% cheating.
this exploit is insane . as some who is technical background i can give my two cent how lan can get these software on those pc. we can pre set up software and all other user can use on pc that install via special admin account that invisible to every other user and unless you log in to the account will not see the account installed. if this theory correct there some serious corruption in the f1 e sport.
apparantly its been in use since like 2015, which is very disappointing ;/ I wish to be the best you didnt have to use these things, but they gain you so much time which is just pathetic.
Blakeley wasn't that strong on LAN, sure he had some bad luck here and there but compared to the previous year he struggled. I would think he couldn't/didn't use the exploit on LAN, also why would he risk using it on a LAN when he already won the championship a year before. Ronhaar however was as fast as always, he also is extremely fast on console and on iracing.
13:29 these pages makes more damage than info (and people believing in them is part of the problem). i hate the fact they push for names just to have impression and likes
If its in-game, then accept it or there must have been a rule about that soecific setup. If you need any external tool, well...that's a whole different story.
Also, this whole mess with what gear you plug where and what fps to run is also on the organizers. They could have easily specified what setups are allowed. The whole F1 is regulated like that too.
Cheating on CSGO Lan was in 2014 when CSGO was pretty new (KQLY) and the most recent was a indian guy playing for optic in a tier12 event and got caught mid game. Nothing else proven. F1 22-23-24 is now and is just terrible.
Incredible, that this game is still so popular. Every year its buggier than the last, the physics are garbage, the multiplayer is nothing but DRS chicken until second last lap and then there are exploits like these and physics influenced by fps, unequal equal cars etc etc etc F1 25 will be terrible again. I am glad I have in the meantime switched to better simulator racing games. Also: Joy2Key is not a cheating software, its just an input mapping tool.
Love people only talking about Ronhaar just bcs he was better than their favourite at some point. They never seen him on iRacing or IRL racing. He is a beast. The end.
I mean Esports should be just on a wheel and 1st person view,that my my opinion and of course devs should fix this problem,nobody else.Also,it is mistake to look just top drivers,how can you say guy in P15 is not cheating?You cant know
No, only if it gives you an unfair advantage. If other can use the same exploit its called a loop hole, like the 60fps thing. Whereas using the pad trick is definitely in the gray area, still not cheating imo. But anything which alters the code is cheating. Imo ea and codeE should focus on patching the exploits it shouldn’t be this easy to exploit the game
@@l-botnet-l Cheating = using any form of exploit that gives them an advantage that is not intended or not meant to be there. I say explopit in that because cheats is exploiting external code to affect the game, just because the code comes from in the game, or there is a bug in the code, it's still an exploit and a unfair advantage when people use it (think of item duping in mmo's etc) its a bug in the internal code, but its considered cheating if u exploit the bug. What the guy said was same thing you said, exploits that give even a VERY MINOR advantage is still classified as cheating because its an ADVANTAGE. There's a reason people must run on same resolution ratio for shooter esports. Its minor, even had downside to it, but still not allowed because its a outside and unintended thing that brings a portion of imbalance to the game. Any player abusing any form of exploit instead of just outing it so it gets fixed says enough about their character. ANd you should be ashamed for almost backing that... shame on you!
@@joshbates6274 bro chill out, it’s my opinion you can shame me all you want I am not ashamed. Exploiting and pushing the limits are separated by a fine line, as long as there is no rule against an exploit yet it’s not cheating. Be more respectful of others. You don’t know what is going on in someone’s life, your comments can make things worse for them. I only intended to share my ideas and opinions, what I don’t like to do is insult or fight with anyone. Peace ✌️
this generation of gamers is by far the worst in all of gaming history . . so many entitled cheating little sweats. Ruined all of multiplayer gaming for me
I appreciate your video Marcel. But tbf, it's hard now for me to even trust you. I mean, you also went from fighting for the podium pretty much every race, even fighting Freddy, to being nowhere near the top "all of a sudden". Should we suspect you as well then? And I'm not trying to be silly or defend anyone, but if we're basing these allegations on performance drop (while Freddy's performance has always been consitent), one could also say you should also be investigated in F1 2020.
joy2key sends keyboard commands it converts joystick commands into keyboard commands and mouse its basically a keyboard and mouse emulator they are using something else not joy2key
Streamer key lol on gt7 turns in on the same line as the car in front and holds it no matter what line he was on???? I always thought...like a synchronised swimmer.
Trying to turn casual games into competitive Esports games is just a joke. Why not using Mario Kart already? At least all the ramming would be justified lol
F1 cant be an epsort without developer involvement to actually make it fair and prevent cheating. In every esport, developer is direclty involved in it
This is what happens when arcade games are used for racing esports
it's a glorified Mario Kart
@@TakodaTGL That's a little hyperbolic
@@TakodaTGL true+pfp
@@justinburley8659 mario
And these guys really think they would be good in real cars as well, lmfao
IMO this is 100% on the game devs. Programs to remap input devices have existed for decades, when assists are disabled there should be no silent advantage for controllers, fake or real. Blaming drivers for how they configure hardware when not at LAN events is absurd.
This type of logic also means that because it is possible to illegally buy guns you think that you shouldn't blame a gang member when he kills a family of 4 during an attempted robbery. Get your head on straight.
That's definitely not 100% one devs. Just like XIM if you play apex legends. That's 100% illegal and people are tricking the software and it's hard for devs to get a solution. It's cheating fs
its like making an fps with an hidden wall hack inside and pretend no one going to use it
Based opinion. How is it not cheating, there going to download extra programs to have this advantage. There pedal would work just fine without. To me 100% cheating. Heard about this last week and tried it ans gained like .3 on most tracks. I was allready a top 300ish on all tracks without. 1st day I tried it got like top 100 on 4 of 5 tracks. The traction advantage is insane
If everyone can do it its not cheating, its always upto the hosts of the competition to make sure there is no cheating. EA and CodeE are also the hosts since its their game.
Cheating is gaining an unfair advantage, its not unfair if everyone has access and its common knowledge.
The case here is that while the 60fps thing is not cheating imo, anything else they discussed is.
Man remember our boot camps in 2022 we were so lost.. 60fps + pad tc was probably it 😂
And we even tried figuring it out lmao, Joni sat there for hours with a gamepad next to his wheel
@@JoshIdowu Crazy stuff. No competitive integrity whatsoever. Just like every other sport where PED's are being used.
@@MarcelKiefer I was playing F1 2022 and on that game in particular I beat everyone on traction with pad, I beat even a top 5 player on Zandvoort because I completed my overtake thanks to pad traction 😂
@pavimentononliscio what is this pad traction can you explain new to f1
Didn’t Ronhaar use a Fanatec base with Logitech pedals during the F1 22 Esports?
If so, he would have needed to directly connect them to the PC via USB as the Fanatec base wouldn’t recognise them…
So what? Lol. I think there are more people that mix brands on PC. That's the good thing about playing on PC compared to console.
And also at the LAN event, I'm pretty sure they used the same equipment and he was still one of the quickest.
I think if there's someone that came out more suspicious out of this it would be Blakely. He finished more than 100 points behind Freddy (I don't think je was really strong at any of the events) suddenly when it went to LAN, after winning the championship pretty the year before. Ronhaar was quick and fighting for the championship both years (online and LAN). I don't know what's the obsession with accusing or insinuating Ronhaar specifically a cheater...
@@revirdkcalb Somehow people love to single out a guy and try to frame him as a cheater based on little to no evidence for really anything. Ronhaar likely never cheated as we can see with his insane performance in LAN events right now.
@@revirdkcalb
Clearly you are missing the point and even contradicting yourself in your reply lol. Do you understand how event sponsorship works dude ?
The drivers are supposed to use Fanatec equipment as they are one of the main sponsors, whereas Ronhaar broke that rule and some drivers complained about it - why he was permitted to use different pedals only the organisers can answer! But by doing so it allows him to directly connect the pedals to the PC and the potential to use said advantage.
Is this advantage regarded as a hack or a cheat in the same way as a grip hack ? Would the organisers be looking for this specific advantage if they inspected someone’s PC ? like they did with Ronhaar’s.
If you watched the eSports races for F1 22, you will remember drivers for the main teams were all in the Team HQ (McLaren, Mercedes, RedBull, Ferrari etc), whilst Ronhaar was playing in his bedroom…he has always been a quick driver, but not 2 tenths quicker than anyone else and he certainly isn’t as fast since the 2022 game!
@@Jimmy_RussellsWhen was Ronhaar 2 tenths quicker? F122 Esports?
He did not cheat it was proven
that f1 esports account is so laughable. literally just going back to every past champion since 2020 and claiming they "most likely" cheated with no evidence. the only one that seems like they probably cheated in some way is Ronhaar that year he was like 2/10s faster than everyone on every single track and no one could figure it out.
😂 I think Lucas was more dodgy, atleast Ronhaar smashed the Lan event where I do not believe anyone can cheat with out getting court!!
@@AaronMartin7193 caught*
Iracing. The end. Ronhaar is clean.
@@alexstavik lmao I never claimed he isn’t quick. All these drivers are quick on F1 and other racing games…that doesn’t mean he didn’t cheat on F1 for a small advantage
@@AaronMartin7193 caught*
As long as there is financial gain, there will always be cheating involved. Shouldn't be shocking news. Its on the organizers not the drivers. There is no point going back to last years, they cant prove anything. They should focus on restoring the esports reputation, as it stands it cant get worse.
At 8:20 that interaction between LRN and someone in their comments cracked me up🤣🤣🤣
Hahahaha
thats me sir😂
@@wiktoriussssssssswikkttoorrrrrrr smidiussss
@@tresyy u funny man
maybe ronhaar used that technique? his way to go on the power quicker could be because of that
give it a rest man, he ain't cheating
@@GoodFeelingsCore pretty sure he was running a lower downforce setup in most tracks compared to the others but still somehow got to full throttle faster with 0 wheelspin 🤔
@@GoodFeelingsCore You wouldn't know
Nah Ronhaar was on some different shit. He was faster on hards, saving battery and taking safe corners than people running all they battery and exceeding track limits.
@@GoodFeelingsCore You must be delusional to make that statement. He was playing a different game at times. Worse compound, higher tyre wear, lower battery, but faster than everyone else in the corners AND on the straight. Sounds legit.
As long as you're not esports anymore or into competitive league racing in f1 24, i'd say try it, make a statement lol
with how poorly organised the F1 esport has been for years it is totally believeable that people were able to cheat at LAN events
EA would prefer to cater to casuals to grow their market and make more money, so I have a feeling they won't bother to fix this issue where they are giving controller players a free advantage. To me if you care about competitive integrity and the development of e-sports/sim racing you would just not give controller players extra grip. It's the same scenario with games like Call of Duty, where you can use a gamepad and have aim assist, but it's not "cheating", even though it really is. By definition, it's artificial assistance that gives you an inherent advantage.
They can just make this a setting instead like any other assist so it can be banned by league organiser. Not really that hard to solve but not sure if EA cares enough to fix it.
mate controller players are no where near the pace of wheel so its doesnt change anything in the competitive scene the only thing what changes is that the wheel players are trying to exploid it, controller players need them assist for the average player otherwise controller would be impossible to play on f1. i do think it should be a setting to remove those assist in competitive
I agree with Kian. It is not anything external. Joytokey is just a mapping software and has nothing to do with f1, traction or anything else. You can actually do this even without it by just messing with the right in game settings. For me it is the same way of "cheating" as driving on grass on some tracks to gain better top speed. That is also an exploit, but it is 100% ingame mechanic
Just some words that crossed my mind after writing this : Esport teams spend so many hours on the game that every exploit or glitch is always known to all of the teams before the start of f1 esports so nobody gains an advantage and nobody complains about it. This time it looks like not all teams/drivers knew about it and are kinda mad so they try to label this exploit as cheating.
Yeah I agree and I would argue it's part of the preparation grind to find out ways to maximize laptimes using game mechanics. And I am very certain it is a game mechanic that can be used without the external software, which would also explain how it can be used in LAN events.
Made himself look a little silly with the "I think it might be a virus" comment too... It's software that's existed for I'm pretty sure over a decade
It makes sense that you can do it without external software too, because LAN event organisers have to be abysmal for players to be able to install software on the stage PC, everyone that's ever had a school or workplace provided laptop knows that's a thing, it shouldn't be possible for that to happen at a LAN unless it's being organised by apprentices lmao
It feels like the ferrari cheat in 2019 in real f1, its just soo unsportsmanlike
@@TheCynicalJedi The virus comment is not silly, if you're not sure of the software (which is the case for Marcel here), don't download it. Good rule of thumb to have on the internet.
I think you should get racing again. You were the first person I followed and leaned to drive without assists using your videos.
I think the standard of driving is better at the moment, some of the problem was probably to do with the damage to your confidence.
2022 was a very bad year, I think there was one very prominent cheat, but he stopped for the following year.
I don’t think you could exploit on a LAN when the equipment is not your own, the difference in performance would be greater between league and esports. The standard of driving was pretty appalling last year in the leagues and then the esports was a bit of a joke with glitches in the game during esport.
That’s why I’m on
iRacing. Stopped even going on F1, I do all my Formula racing on iRacing and it’s not even comparable honestly.
are people there that use assist at least loosing time than gaining like in F1? @understatedexcellence
@@TheGamingMemoriesArchive Most assists aren't available above rookie/D license in iRacing (unless they are needed due to physical disability). There are some gearbox assists, but they generally have a small time penalty in gear change times (aside from full manual, but with anti-stall).
@@TheGamingMemoriesArchive You can’t use assists in League Series or Official races over C class licenses. Only the lower licensed classes can use the assists but they do not have a multitude of assists like in the F1 game such as automatic DRS, ERS, Brake Lockup assist, Traction Control and on and on. You can use a driving line in the lower classes for Formula series that’s pretty much it. In road series you have more in car adjustments available with brake bias, fuel mapping, ABS adjustment, TC level but that’s all for road series racing like GT3/GT4 LMP3. Formula racing you have no TC or ABS just like IRL you do have brake bias. And if your in a Open series you can make adjustments to your setup like suspension, aero etc, Fixed series you all have the same setup.
@@underSTATEDexcellence ty for your answer man i appriciated it
Thanks for making this brother, still hoping you post our Zandvoort SFL iRacing race with the last lap controversy - Caleb
is same on every esports. if organization doesnt ban it specificly, players can use whatever they want
Qualifying and Racing in Esports should be done with wheel and pedal only. That is afterall whats used for finals. Maybe throw away wheels and force all to use pads in official competitions. Any form of exploits without setups should be considered cheating.
The conflating issue here is that the game is also publicly consumable for non-competitive use...
It is pretty clear that lucas has used it atleast in F1 22
How is that clear?
@@MegaSturrup because he went from middle of the pack to the dominating driver out of nowhere
@@bvbftw those games were very different.
This is why our F1 League used to be console only. PC leagues are full of people using exploits, always have been.
PLAYING WITH THE WRONG PEOPLE MATE
@@amberleaf42069 I don’t play video games anymore
People thinking cheats don't happen on console is funny.
It's SLIGHTLY harder, but it really isn't that significant.
@@slimlacy2 Emm.. No
@slimlacy2 Slightly harder? No buddy, it's WAY Harder to accomplish 😂😂
There’s a simple solution to this that keeps pad players with their advantage, just have people view telemetry of drivers race and if there is anything that suggests they are getting on the power way to easily and such they get flagged. It’s the same thing Iracing does for their pro series and it works like a charm.
ABS and TC are way OP.
Always funny when you turn them off in a lobby and see all the big talkers lose 2 seconds a lap
These literally make you slower if you are a competent driver
thats not true, i cant even finish 1 lap
Why dont racing leagues just legalize this exploit? Wouldn't that be the easiest solution by far? Its not like PEDs where you make a health sacrifice.
Same as Fighting games with Hitboxes or leverless pads.
Their solution was to eliminate predominating directions when pressing opposite keys/buttons, as they now will default to Neutral
This man is the only honest esports racer
So during the LAN event the teams where allowed to make installations to the PCs? I thought it was all setup in advance and they just made in game settings (wheel, force feedback etc.).
The whole point with a LAN event would be to compete on fully equal equipment so why on earth would they allow them to?
I cant understand why with all the technology we have. We cant tell or figure out when someone is using some foreign "assist"
We have a rookie in our league absolutely destroying our lap times with a pad. He has no assists but is very consistent. On Racenet, it's difficult for me to keep pace with in input on throttle and brake. I've equated this to the short throw of the triggers compared my pedals. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt, but even after increasing my pedal saturation, I'm still lacking significantly. Also, I've been Sim racing since 2007.
the kid is cheating for sure
@@glitchinthematrix9306 How do you cheat on console though? Feels impossible
This is happening in almost every online multiplayer game which is a real shame for the gaming industry, not just E-Sports. You can no longer trust people we compete with anymore and yes, I also believe that competitive/LAN should be done on console.
gutted the truth will 99% never come out
however this explains like you said, the lucas bahrain lap and even the ronhaar one shot quali lap on 22 at bahrain.
also, if we could somehow get the setups they were running then I think it would 100% clear/unclear stuff up
An easy solution would be that the person hosting the lobby could see the input devices used and question the drivers about it, in addition to that option, would be nice to have a toggly that could turn the assist for control off completely. or just have this last option there would probably stop it.
Yes in theory the software would get an update to simulate the device too, but that would be eliminated by the addition, that would controller users a big disadvantage, but this would most likely be used by high level and money winning competition anyways and I doubt there are any controller users there. But please correct me if I'm wrong.
I've no idea how I got here but great video tho, didnt know this was all going on! Cheers
Another thing in F1 games is that when I use my controller the moment I get any kind of track limits violation it turns on auto steer. It's made the game kind of unplayable for me. Like I can go much faster but it feels awful to drive.
I lookee up solutions online but couldnt find anything on it. It's making me feel crazy. Probably aren't many pc controller players but I have joint problems for my shoulders and a controller just works better.
100% all the esport teams know about the hacks where you can increase grip, ERS, they will have all downloaded and tested it on a separate PC, it takes like 30 seconds to find and minutes to get up and running
It is 100% justified that you question if you even struggled with pace in esports if it is a possiblity people have been using exploits.
A sport I once loved 😢. Even if this turns out to not be true it has ruined the reputation permanently of f1 esports. The fact you can't rule it out shows that at the very least the processes for assessing cheating need to be seriously looked at. Such a shame.
We all agree they needs to sort it out onces and for all. Save the game we love.
btw whats up with the overtake button keybind changing to unassigned, I still have no idea whats up with that, almost as if someone could change the config on the fly to make the game recognize a different input method or something or some other macro bullshit
yes I have always thought that people might try somehow to get pad traction with a steering wheel. I think its been like from 2016 that pad have build in tc which helps them. Thank god I have not driven any competetive races on PC. Even on console you could actually "exploit" it at the race starts. Do your start with a game pad and then change to wheel as soon you are on full throttle 4th or 5th gear.
I'd consider that cheating for sure
If people could manage to cheat at ESL events, people can manage to cheat at amateur F1 events.
Love bro, keep posting esports content!
@@formulagod. GOAT
I always there was something to pc users being faster than console even though it’s the same equipment. This is ridiculous and just makes me not want to play the game at all . As a league racer and a fan of sim racing, this is heartbreaking
I’ve always thought since F1 23 that using ABS and TC while using a controller is OP compared to no assists on a wheel like how I play. In a league I raced in, I was mid pack at best, and I’m not slow by any means (consistently inside the top 5-10% at every track on TT) and then we ran a no assists race with the same grid and I just destroyed everybody. ABS and TC are OP and I’m sick of people abusing it.
Abs and tc should be banned in all leagues. Its always been OP
Im sorry but if youre top 5/10% on time trail the difference is just the easier driving of the assists, at those standings youre not driving on the limit
The thing is in F1 23 no ABS is much easier than before
Honestly whole F1 esports should be cancelled until literally the game is sorted.
So many issues with F1 games in recent years and unfortunately if one or more esport players used cheats as way of gaining advantage over the rest it really wouldn’t shock me.
The game itself if a terrible product and unfortunately F1 Esports reputation has been destroyed.
It’s been destroyed through mismanagement from FOM side
It’s been destroyed through the game just been absolutely terrible to play
It’s been destroyed through the fact the no anti cheat system in place to prevent anyone from cheating.
Given the whole shit show to put it politely literally whole thing is just become a yearly farce and a message needs to be sent to EA, to Codemasters and the people at top of F1 that this needs fixing or no point of holding any esports competition.
Ngl as Someone not involved with f1/f1-esports, I gotta say this situation is just stupid. If the game gives the possibility to use something like this, UNLESS specifically stated, it should be allowed. Looking at this it’s just an exploit, not a cheat. It’s not that deep for codies to get a hold of some Programm being able to protect that, other games do aswell. Still its a scummy move by pros, yet it’s the pro scene, everyone is gonna do anything to get that little advantage, then it’s up to Codies to do sumn!
That being said I don’t support any of this bs……. At the end of the day ppl take this shit way too serious and should just think about why we do this stupid fake racing hobby at all
Babe wake up, there's a new F1 eSports cheating scandal
Marcel, What you said at 18:19 till 19:43 was the exact thing i would've said and i 100% with certainty respect your decision from taking a break from all of this mess, because its all bull...like how can you not put an anti-cheat system knowingly your putting high stakes rewards on the line, and lets not ignore the fact that you lads are risking your future for this that's all.
Marcel: "Chill guys"
Title: Cheating Scandal in F1 Esports?! 🤯
Yesh the controller thing people don't get. Yes the controller can have more traction but you can't be faster then a wheel becausw the wheel is more precise. But that is messed up people can exploit the pedals. Then you have all the extra precision and more traction now that is an advantage.
I forgot the specifics but back in Black Ops 3 on PC you could have your KBM and a controller plugged into your PC and the game would give you controller aim assist while using KBM. Seems like a fairly similar situation and definitely sounds extremely close to cheating. At the very least its very scummy to use.
I'm impressed with how tye devs are able to mess tye F1 game up more and more each year. Such creativity!
Marcel woke up feeling dangerous today
It's not a virus Marcel, you can try it I had been using on my flight sim setup it's just an open source tool that convert axis input to simulate joystick input
dont blame yourself and overthink about it. if you did 100% from yourself in the past you should be proud, doesn't matter if they cheat or not. Since I'm not comparing myself with the others, I do not overthink my life is just easier and better.
Cheers Marcel, you were great f1 esports drive, nobody who is here some time now will never consider this
Just hire me to manage this F1 Esports thing at this point. I'm serious.
Bit rusty but I can go and do it.
All I know is that it won't be worse.
So pretty much, E sports drivers are doing anything and everything to win. Sounds like real life tbh😂
I have seen a lot of opinions here and I agree inpart with all of them.
Cheating in sports is always present, and to combat it there are governing bodies.
The sportsperson is expected to compete fairly at the same time it is also expected that not everyone will.
Instead of arguing what is considered cheating or not, there should be a governing body which votes on such disputes and resolves them with guidelines and code of conduct.
If you as an organizer are handing out money but not conducting a fairness evaluation you cant come back and ask for you money back, and you open yourself to participants accusing others.
I just hope there is governing body setup which goes through extensive testing, but for all that we need a lot more money in esports especially F1
I’m confused and maybe someone in here could answer this. I am on PS5 using Fanatec V3 pedals. There is a dead spot on the pedal to game that has about 15-20 percent dead zone on the throttle when depressed and the car doesn’t move on screen. How is it a joystick game pad can be more accurate than $400 dollar pedals???
I had a similar problem too mate
If you look on the right hand side of the throttle pedal there is a sensor
This had moved slightly hence the dead spot
In my case I loosened it slightly and twisted it towards me ever so slightly
Hope this helps👍🏻
I saw cheating clicked the video and was waiting for what ronhaar has done this time 😂
This btw is/was possible on console on f1 2018 I used to play on Xbox and if you plug a controller in over usb and play on wheel and make a weird combination on turning off the wheel and controller you could get the same result then this software I can’t remember how I did it but you can feel the effect massively in traction braking and steering input as you got more front end grip same was defo possible on 2019 and since 2020 I switched to pc for obvious reasons (way to less players on Xbox) and since switching I struggle a bit I’m still happy with my pace but something was missing watched some Esports drivers pov and it looked like they have basically another tc in the car with more grip as well even if I try to accelerate full at the exact same spot then them with the setup with the same steering input I spin if I try and brake where they brake I lock the rears … I think it’s not just the software I think it’s a game issue because the game doesn’t know with what the person is driving now
Any exploits, especially used in competitive environment that are not known by other competitors should be considered cheating
If it’s an advantage you are quietly exploiting then you are cheating the players who don’t use this or may not know it. If true, it clear there’s a reason why these players wouldn’t share this info
also wouldnt be surprised if console people come up with some xim/cronus style bullshit so the console thinks the pedals youre using are controller
Glitch exploitation is considered cheating thus bannable in every decent esport
could this glitch work with every sim or just F1? because it would explain many things
Remember Aarava's video where he was playing the Motogp game with steering wheel and pedals
Someone should just write a checksum script for f1 pro series tbh.
Cheating = using any form of exploit that gives them an advantage that is not intended or not meant to be there. I say explopit in that because cheats is exploiting external code to affect the game, just because the code comes from in the game, or there is a bug in the code, it's still an exploit and a unfair advantage when people use it (think of item duping in mmo's etc) its a bug in the internal code, but its considered cheating if u exploit the bug.
Imma say it, in EVERY Esports game there are cheaters at the top, no exceptions. It's always just a matter of time before they get caught.
We need to separate gamers who play on Controller and gamers who play on Wheel. You know how demotivating it is as a controller player to look at the leaderboard and see times that are actually impossible to achieve?
No wonder there are people that cheat in these games. The device you use can give you an advantage, the equipment you use, can give you an advantage then only does "Skill" join the chat. So the guy that doesn't have money can only download a free app to even be remotely competitive. But that's just my 2 cents.
This
People always turn to the exceptional controller players and, while its true, it truly is demotivating to think: damn, I really have to either be a god on a pad, or spend over 4k on a simracing setup, if your country is even able to deliver those, train like a mad man on it, plus the pc for it.
That F1 24 Esports News guy is the biggest tumour in the F1 Esports community. I've had him blocked for so long because all he does is spout rumours for engagements and when people don't believe him he starts arguing with them. He's not a good news source and he should've changed his name to his own name as a journalist like EvH and others ages ago. This guy needs to be blocked by everyone. Do not follow him.
You clearly don't know me buddy
all my news at least habe 80% truth in them with 20% half truths to spice it up, just like any other journalist
Codemasters should lose the license and get shut down. Hopefully it happens and someone capable picks up and makes a decent f1 game
If you use a setting embedded into the game itself that hasn't been explicitly stated you cannot change, it isn't cheating. Like running the game on a lower frame rate to have the cars be able to take kerbs better. But running external software to increase grip? 100% cheating.
this exploit is insane . as some who is technical background i can give my two cent how lan can get these software on those pc. we can pre set up software and all other user can use on pc that install via special admin account that invisible to every other user and unless you log in to the account will not see the account installed. if this theory correct there some serious corruption in the f1 e sport.
apparantly its been in use since like 2015, which is very disappointing ;/ I wish to be the best you didnt have to use these things, but they gain you so much time which is just pathetic.
Blakeley wasn't that strong on LAN, sure he had some bad luck here and there but compared to the previous year he struggled. I would think he couldn't/didn't use the exploit on LAN, also why would he risk using it on a LAN when he already won the championship a year before. Ronhaar however was as fast as always, he also is extremely fast on console and on iracing.
13:29 these pages makes more damage than info (and people believing in them is part of the problem). i hate the fact they push for names just to have impression and likes
To be fair teams cheat in the real f1 when they can 😂
If its in-game, then accept it or there must have been a rule about that soecific setup. If you need any external tool, well...that's a whole different story.
Also, this whole mess with what gear you plug where and what fps to run is also on the organizers. They could have easily specified what setups are allowed. The whole F1 is regulated like that too.
Cheating on CSGO Lan was in 2014 when CSGO was pretty new (KQLY) and the most recent was a indian guy playing for optic in a tier12 event and got caught mid game. Nothing else proven. F1 22-23-24 is now and is just terrible.
Incredible, that this game is still so popular. Every year its buggier than the last, the physics are garbage, the multiplayer is nothing but DRS chicken until second last lap and then there are exploits like these and physics influenced by fps, unequal equal cars etc etc etc
F1 25 will be terrible again. I am glad I have in the meantime switched to better simulator racing games.
Also: Joy2Key is not a cheating software, its just an input mapping tool.
It isn't popular. If you look at the stats, there are wayyy less people playing this year.
Never knew F1 eSports is like the real F1 with all these cheating drama 😂
Love people only talking about Ronhaar just bcs he was better than their favourite at some point. They never seen him on iRacing or IRL racing. He is a beast. The end.
I think you should make a video downloading the program and trying for us to see and understand what everybody is talking about.
Calling the use of an intentional game mechanic an exploit is really reaching......
I mean Esports should be just on a wheel and 1st person view,that my my opinion and of course devs should fix this problem,nobody else.Also,it is mistake to look just top drivers,how can you say guy in P15 is not cheating?You cant know
Cheating is exploiting something that gives you an advantage. Period.
Amen 🙏
No, only if it gives you an unfair advantage. If other can use the same exploit its called a loop hole, like the 60fps thing. Whereas using the pad trick is definitely in the gray area, still not cheating imo. But anything which alters the code is cheating. Imo ea and codeE should focus on patching the exploits it shouldn’t be this easy to exploit the game
@@l-botnet-l Cheating = using any form of exploit that gives them an advantage that is not intended or not meant to be there. I say explopit in that because cheats is exploiting external code to affect the game, just because the code comes from in the game, or there is a bug in the code, it's still an exploit and a unfair advantage when people use it (think of item duping in mmo's etc) its a bug in the internal code, but its considered cheating if u exploit the bug.
What the guy said was same thing you said, exploits that give even a VERY MINOR advantage is still classified as cheating because its an ADVANTAGE. There's a reason people must run on same resolution ratio for shooter esports. Its minor, even had downside to it, but still not allowed because its a outside and unintended thing that brings a portion of imbalance to the game.
Any player abusing any form of exploit instead of just outing it so it gets fixed says enough about their character. ANd you should be ashamed for almost backing that... shame on you!
@@joshbates6274 bro chill out, it’s my opinion you can shame me all you want I am not ashamed. Exploiting and pushing the limits are separated by a fine line, as long as there is no rule against an exploit yet it’s not cheating. Be more respectful of others. You don’t know what is going on in someone’s life, your comments can make things worse for them. I only intended to share my ideas and opinions, what I don’t like to do is insult or fight with anyone. Peace ✌️
if you know this is a thing and use it, you're cheating
this generation of gamers is by far the worst in all of gaming history . . so many entitled cheating little sweats. Ruined all of multiplayer gaming for me
I appreciate your video Marcel. But tbf, it's hard now for me to even trust you. I mean, you also went from fighting for the podium pretty much every race, even fighting Freddy, to being nowhere near the top "all of a sudden". Should we suspect you as well then? And I'm not trying to be silly or defend anyone, but if we're basing these allegations on performance drop (while Freddy's performance has always been consitent), one could also say you should also be investigated in F1 2020.
You’re a 🤡
What? Plugging pedals through USB is now cheating? What about people using a wheelbase from one brand and pedals from another?
joy2key sends keyboard commands it converts joystick commands into keyboard commands and mouse its basically a keyboard and mouse emulator they are using something else not joy2key
Its cheating , in my opinion,
Streamer key lol on gt7 turns in on the same line as the car in front and holds it no matter what line he was on???? I always thought...like a synchronised swimmer.
Give all teams/drivers all the same cheats then backto equal grids 🤣
This is why I play iracing
Trying to turn casual games into competitive Esports games is just a joke. Why not using Mario Kart already? At least all the ramming would be justified lol
The big problem is the game. The 24 game is sooooo TRASH. The handling is absolutely awful.
F1 cant be an epsort without developer involvement to actually make it fair and prevent cheating. In every esport, developer is direclty involved in it
if its like fab says u could use it on a console to ..
It's a shame. You're right
This makes too much sense.