THE REMATCH! TRUCK NORRIS VS CHOPACABRA VS PRO LS VS LIL HOT ROD. WHAT IS THE BEST LS TRUCK CAM?
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- Опубліковано 29 чер 2024
- WHO MAKES THE MOST POWERFUL LS TRUCK CAM? IS IT THE TEXAS SPEED CHOPACABRA? IS IT THE BRIAN TOOLEY RACING TRUCK NORRIS? IS IT THE SUMMIT RACING PRO LS, OR IS IT THE LIL HOT ROD FROM CAM MOTION? CHECK OUT THE REMATCH (ROUND 2) WHERE I COMPARED ALL FOUR CAMS ONCE AGAIN IN A BACK TO BACK DYNO TEST ON A 5.3L L33 EQUIPPED WITH A FAST INTAKE AND LONG TUBE HEADERS. WHICH TRUCK CAM IS THE BADDEST IN THE LAND? FULL DYNO RESULTS.
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So in the end , order whichever one's not back orderd or cheaper?
Exactly
Cheap is where I'm at
Yup 😅
That’s why I got a tsp chopacobra with the valve spring kit when I ordered it only 400 bucks
The 550 lift cams can use cheaper springs
Thank you for going back and revisiting these! 🤟
Wow. That is incredible. Awesome test. Thank you
Woohoo! Thanks for the testing Richard
The timing of this video couldn't be better! I am making a shopping list for my soon-to-be LS swapped 69 c10
Hi Rich, love the sheer amount of testing you do, but can i ask a small favour, particularly with things like cam tests. I noticed the dyno console shows manifold pressure, any chance when your doing comparos you could let the engine sit at a nominal rpm, say 1000, and show what vacuum its pulling. If you have two cams that make similar mid and peak but one has oddly more vacuum, then for a stret car, take the one with better vacuum. Cheers.
I was wondering about that because of the lobe separation. Good question.
Vacuum should be listed
Wider LSA, more vacuum. I have never seen this rule fail.
Had a feeling these results would end up that way with equivalent oil pressure, awesome video! definitely some of the best all-around cams for the smaller LS engines
I'm glad you helicoiled those threads and they certainly do wonders
Thank you Richard for the plug explanation! I love your dedication!! The saying was if you drop a plug? Throw it in your neighbors yard and get new a new one!! I wish we had this info back in the 80s!! We were guessing with all the new electronics and fuel injection just coming out. Could not tune the factory ECM so we were carbing the vortex heads and made good power but not like the LS platform!!!
Great information. thanks-you have a great job -I could do this everyday ✌️
Pretty much what I figured would happen, but now there is ZERO doubt.
Hats off to you my guy that’s a lot of work, and I don’t have a lot of people understand it
Thanks as always
Thanks for redoing the test though
i have an Excalibur cam in my LS4 from LS4KING. it specs out close to a truck norris and i love it.
6 degrees of variation on the intake duration and virtually identical. Summit specs on duration at 0.050 seem a little suspect given the high lift and softness down low, but again little difference. Very cool comparison.
Not sure who is funding your research but the numbers as you openly portray them, don't lie. Honesty is hard to come by on the interwebs...yours is def appreciated.
funding my research?
Thanks Richard for all the hard work . I thought different lobe seps would shift the power band around ?
I'm wondering if the LSA combined with the duration differences made for a similar overlap
Would be cool to get idle comparisons to see if they sound any different
I'd say the tighter LSA cams with have a rougher idle. But,probably nothing terribly radical.
@@msh6865 yeah I figure
@@msh6865 Still would be fun to listen to 😊
100% agree. Please Holdner and Engine Masters, let us hear some idle clips with these different setups 🙂
LS plus cam upgrade is always welcomed!
Richard..! The same Test for 6.0 Please..! Thanks. You are a Master.
same results
i would be interested in the B.F.D cam vs the L83 Truck Norris cams
Thank you
Wow! Thanks sooo much for doing all of this work. Yup...this was THE cam comparison test that, at least ,I was waiting for. So interesting....
Building a 408. I have the bottom end already and you have helped me decide on the cam. Which is any one of them. Maybe 1 of them w go on sale. Haha. Now I have to decide on heads. I have 2 sets of 317 heads so since I have them I may have it milled and I may put in some bigger valves and bowl blend it. What do you guys think? Oh...it's going back into 2500hd silverado
I have a chopacabra for sale
You changed cams so we don't have to. Thanks Richard
Ha ha I just noticed something. The big truck torkinator is Summit’s old stage 1 turbo cam renamed. Look at the images at Summit for the cam. Same specs, same part number (8728R1). Different name. Marketers. Every cam is a turbo cam.
You should test each companies max effort Na cams. Aka stage 4s?
Never for nothing Richard! Thanks!
We need a test with car cams gpi, tsp, cam motion, btr, and trick flow
Today is Dan Gurney's 92nd birthday. He's a legend.
we really was
I'd like to see how the sdpc PowerMax cam stacks up against these cams
I have tuned several of these in multiple trucks in various builds. The Chopacabra seems to have more noticeable low end tq prior to the 2500rpm mark.
Truck Norris “takes off” right at 3600rpm in a 5.3 and 3400 in a 6.0L. That is where it seems to come alive in the trucks where you are limited to timing on the low rpm due to weight/load.
You will 100% want a stall and a solid rear gear 4.10-4.56 depending on tire height and weight to optimize these cams.
I tow with my truck99’ ex cab 5.7L and it needs a 4.56 and a 3k stall to mitigate the low end tq loss in dynamics below 2k rpm and opted to use a custom grind 213/220 .575 113lsa+4 cam. Hasn’t hardly any lope but has more low end tq 2-2600rpm than the truck Norris hands down. Very noticeable difference especially when towing
Hey bro, what would you recommend on a 6.0 LQ9 all-wheel-drive cam?
I'm truck is on 35s think I should go with 4.56 gears or 4.88s?or stick with my 3.73s? I'm putting a 6.0 with the chopacabra?
@@truthisweareallgonnadie.Its recomended but the chopacabra is fine with your stock stall converter and stock gears bro.
Doing the lords work
Richard - How would you rank these cams by original design? I only ask because I prefer to support the manufacturer that took the financial hit on R&D cam specs.
Luv the shout-out.
Can you tell the difference in idle? You mentioned hard to tell a diff. if driving ... Ty
I didn't do a specific idle vacuum test on these
Right on
Anyone interested in learning about the LS family of engines should definitely subscribe to your channel. I'm in the process of building a gen 3 5.3 and run upon your channel and have been watching your videos since and has guided me in the right direction for me and what I want from my engine. Haven't run across another channel that does as much testing as you and I do appreciate it. Much thanks
thnx for watching
Dose comp cams have a equivalent to the truck-norris cam shaft
I'm building a 1990 c1500 with 5.3, truck norris cam and a 78/75 turbo, its going to be so much fun on the streets.
My build is a '93 C3500 CCLB with a 153k mile LQ4 and a Truck Norris cam.
If it was a regular cab short bed, it would get a turbo. But kind of pointless for my 21 foot long truck, lol!
@@funvic do it anyway.
Still waiting on someone at Howard's cams to send over the rattler or the soon to be new competition to this group of cams coming soon that a little birdy told me about lol
For us with tight spaces, it would be interesting to see some tests with stock manifolds vs holley LS cast manifolds vs short tubes vs long tubes on one of these cams.
long tubes win
@@richardholdener1727 understand that long tubes bring great results, but it would be nice to know how much is being left on the table sticking with stock manifolds and what benefits if any comes with something like the holley LS cast manifolds
@@captthrottle I know he’s done a test on that very thing but I’m sure it wasn’t with these cans. What he’s probably say is that compare the LTs of this one and the one he did the test on and split the difference between the cams. That at least to me is what it would be and he’s safe about all the cams on all the different size engines he’s tested.
@@captthrottle ua-cam.com/video/5HL_VSFDEVg/v-deo.htmlsi=-3UjG9rjmlq-3C7R
@@captthrottleyou won't gain squat with shorty headers over stock manifolds. Scavenging from primary length is what makes power. If you're not increasing the primary length by a large margin you're not gaining anything.
Is there a vacuume difference in the cams?
Btr never runs sales could we get a test to see which cam is the nicest to valve train price is a big deal
Plz do 6.0 with texas speed madd maxx !
Have you tested a Howard's Rattler Cam? Curious how it'll compare to the truck norris and chopacabra in a 5.3.
That's a mean sounding cam
RH where you surprised at all by how close they were? I understand this was a redo but the results were pretty close last time also.
Hi Richard, I guess It would cost too much to heli-coil all those holes from the factory, like they should have done with the Muncie!!
there is no need from the factory, I was responsible for the thread problem
Do they sound the same at idle ?
Lsa plays a role in useable powerband. No cam is perfect at all rpms to build the highest hp and tork at that rpm. Only an adjustable cam could ever give us the max power of tork and hp at every rpm. But since a cam cannot be adjusted in the way the engine needs we have to pick one that gets us an acceptable power curve. What tork losses down low are acceptable for power gains up top. It depends on your application and intended goals. Are you aiming to build a low end towing motor with a little mid range or a mid to upper rpm power combo. When unsure go with an intermediate cam. The best cam is not always found at the bottom of the list in a cam catalog. A custom cam isn't usually needed as most cam companies have a good diversity of cam choices. And it costs more time and money to get a custom cam made. Most people couldn't even fill out a custom cam order form.
Bloodviking
Proves that similar cams produce similar results in terms of power and torque. For many of us, it comes down to price, quality (or perceived quality), availability, and customer service - not necessarily in that order. I tend to buy again and again for companies I trust that demonstrate great customer service. In fact, I might pay slightly more for their products as opposed to cheap stuff of questionable quality with little to zero product support.
What is the price difference between them all?
what headers did he test with?
Could you throw in the mad maxx with this group
Richard Hi I have one question with cams that have a 110-114 LSA do they give u more vacuum at idle compared to a cam that gives you a 107-109 LSA? If anyone on here has a answer plz can u lmk thank you!
yes
wouldn`t an ideal truck cam top out in tq further down in the revs. if possible
Which one got the most low end tourqe
Richard, I've watched most of your videos. I don't recall you testing the Sloppy Stage 3. Have you tested it yet? Also, did you check ptv on these cams?
I have not
@@richardholdener1727 It doesn't make sense to test it on this 5.3, but on a 6.0 or LS3 certainly.
hello sir first your videos are awesome to watch but i have a question what is the biggest cam i can install without valve spring change or head work on a L99 with good sound and power Thank you.
no spring change? try Truck Norris NSR
thank you@@richardholdener1727
Got 5.3 lm7 with 200k miles. Wanting to cam it for performance. I do I need to refresh rod bearings? New cam rollers? Or do I leave the motor alone just with springs and maybe new rocker arms?
SPRINGS AND CAM
Can you test the chop monster from Texas speed? Wanting that cam for my 5.3.
then just step up
My question is what we’re the fuel consumption rates compared to stock? I guess at about $4.75 a gallon for premium that has to be a concern from my standpoint in a daily driver.
we can't test street mpg use on the dyno
Whats the BEST 5.3 LS cam for a gbody swap with no other parts needed, JUST THE CAM?
my 5.3 was complete and rnning & came out of a 2001 or 2002 avalanche not sure if thats 1 , 2 or 3 bolt timing gears?
TRUCK NORRIS AND SPRINGS-YOU WILL BE HAPPY
Am I the only one nervous over the TN cam standing there on its end while he worked?
What about the Honey Badger?
@richardholdener question for the daily driver 06 Sierra regular cab shortbed 5.3 long tube headers with a trailblazer factory stall converter its supposedly 22-2400 stall would one of these cams work well for a daily work truck if not what would
2400 STOCK?
I've used the tbss stall and it doesn't like more than 400hp it will burn up quick and start to buck on you and it was really close to 2000 stall on my 2000gmc extcab short bed
Yeeeessssss I've been waiting for this one to drop, regardless I'm going with the Chopacarba.
The summit cam is 150$ cheaper I think lol
The Best cam is the best cam 😏
What would you need to do to swap a LY5 out and put a LM7 in? Im wanting to buy a crate motor and i dont want to drop another LY5 in and have to delete the dod. Just wondering if any 5.3 would be simple. I have a 2008 silverado.
not sure on harness, but dod can be turned off in the software
So in the end bigger lift on the summit cam really didn't make a difference so it comes down to duration at . 050
duration makes more of a difference
the dyno makes that easy, but I only tune WOT. I start with low timing (like 20 degrees), then adjust AF to something near 12.5:1(the power gains from changes in AF are not very big). The I add timing until it stops adding power (different timing levels at different rpms)
Looks like the Summit cam is the best bang for the buck!
Not really, it requires better springs and therefore pushrods…
The others work fine with ls6 springs and stock pushrods
@@1sikstang True, but I already got all of those things.
Hey Richard, how well would a chopacabra cam work with a turbo?
works well-check out the truck norris video with a turbo-same thing
and yes… they’re all Turbo cams. Every cam is a turbo cam.
'I feel like I did all this testing for nothing,' lololol.
Lol he said "fingers going everywhere"
After swapping cams like that, would the pushrod lenth matter? Reason I asked is cause I never saw u measure the lenth after swapping the cams. Wouldn't a bigger lift cam change pushrod lenth?
only a change in base circle changes pushrod length
@@richardholdener1727 👍💯
What does the +3 mean on cams? I have a btr ls3 stage 3 and it’s a 113+3 lsa.
icl advanced 3 degrees
I'm going to use this info to find the lowest priced cam.
What would bring your UA-cam channel to the next level is if you put some of these engine combinations in a vehicle and did a hub or wheel dyno comparison with different drive trains. Manual transmission with different flywheel weights, automatic transmissions with different stall speeds. Plus you could take them to the track and show some time slips and have a little fun!! Stop wrenching so much and enjoy the fruits of your labor. Get you a 4th gen camaro and put your big bang 6.0 In there with a turbo 400 and a decent rear diff.and go have some fun.
I have a couple of cars-but I like the dyno
@@richardholdener1727 any of these cams work with vvt?
Im sure he races something or has something
Dude why not 5/16 dowels? No way I’d trust those trays 🤣
Let’s see them results on MADD MAXX from Texas speed
Same want results from madd maxx @Richard
Do the stock pushrods need upgrading with these cams?.. I saw a few Truck Norris cam "kits" with stock length 7.4 pushrods?
depends on base circle
@richardholdener1727 I'm not sure if "base circle" has a different term that I am unaware of..
It would be going in a completely stock ls1 with 241 heads?
How would you feel about testing a dual exhaust vs. x-pipe vs. y-pipe vs. the "switch-fire" type of crossover (like 4 y-pipe where two crossover)?
Engine Masters did that already-very minor changes in power, but sound was different
🎉🎉🎉
Can't wait for my IROC to chop meaner although the Big Block Chevy Lope is so addictive.
Sorry if you've answered this before. I'm new to your videos. Is it possible to get .bin tune files from you?
I'm not a tuner
@@richardholdener1727 understandable :)
Would you recommend a stall for a truck Norris 6.0 engine on a crewcab Silverado on a 6 inch lift on 24x14 wides?
I think it (2800 or so stall converter) would help get that thing moving
@@richardholdener1727 which kit would you recommend brother?
@@richardholdener1727 but doesn’t it say that you don’t need converter, you can run the factory?
Awesome information!! I just got a gut punch feeling watching you buzz the sparkplugs out with the impact wrench!! OUCH!!! The spark plugs are made of Porcelain!! you wouldn't use an impact on your toilet.
I hope Not!!
look closely at what was actually being done-they were just spun in or out-and the low-volt, electric driver is not an impact
Do these cams make enough vac at idle for brake booster? Given the lift/dur and LSA which if any would be better in a daily? I know we are splitting hairs here. haha
they should be fine for stock brake boosters
@@richardholdener1727 I know you are super busy but I have a quick question. Would having a cam ground with these specs work similarly if used in a SBC? Or does the LS provide something else that makes these cams work so well?
there are already cams with similar specs for the SBC-nothing magic
Is the engine otherwise factory original other than these cams?
stock short block, stock 243 heads with springs, fast intake and headers as shown
How many times have you had the lifters fall?
I remember once, but not more than twice
Do you test sloppy stage 3 on 6.0 or 6.2?
have not
Im in California but I have an LQ9 motor that I put into a 1994 2 door Yukon and I’m doing research to build a 6.0 to a 6.2 iron block bore and stroke 618 that can handle an LSA supercharger do you have any recommendations on parts to get for this build to still be able to take 91 pump gas
do not bore out to 6.2L bore size. otherwise the forged rods and piston that come with a stroker kit will work
@@richardholdener1727 so are you telling me that they do not make a 6.2 stroker kit
@@richardholdener1727 I’m basically trying to make a 6.0L iron block into a 6.2L block then stroke it to a 6.8L iron 416-418 block that can handle a supercharger if and whenever I get my hands on one but it’s a bone stock block at the moment
@@richardholdener1727 Doing the research on it everybody say it’s a future problem waiting to happen due to the fact that the cylinder walls will be to thin for that application. So I can make the same power from a 408 that I can make from a 418 just around 25 hp less which I’ll never notice on the street but I can still make 423hp on a 408cid stroker motor and it will be stronger. Also I can put a supercharger on that and build more reliable horsepower wit a 408cid then you can wit a 418cid. So is that the right or wrong concept that I’m getting from you and other people
Is that because you've changed the cams 50 times or what was the cause? I assume you have to retap them, maybe go slightly bigger in size if it's possible.. Not a great working area to do that stuff on.
lots of in and out-plus over tighten the aluminum threads
👍💪
Richard!!
Come up with your own series of cams and I’ll buy all of them.
I’m sure others will also haha. It’ll help support you. I just wanna put them away in the corner to talk about in 30 years.
Why? The market is absolutely saturated with camshafts that all do the same thing. He helped Matt Happle design the sloppy best.
@@Cultofpersonality09129 booo! You are correct though
Let's see truck cam vs stage 1 and 2 cams on 6.0 liter
TRUCK CAMS VS STAGE 1&2 na CAMS?
Yeah I guess truck cams compared to something a lil bigger than truck cams
doing and LS swap and having an issue where the engine goes to redline on start up any ideas?
HUGE vacuum leak would be my guess
You have the hole in the back of the intake where the brake booster hose hooks up plugged off? Definitely sounds like a huge vacuum leak
lots o vacuum leak-or stuck dbw tb
it definitly is thank you guys for the input 👍
Chopacobra claims you can run the stock converter..what are your thoughts?
thoughts?
I would never be shifting at those RPMs... Normally with my 5-speed manual , I'm shifting at 2000 RPMs. , 3000 RPMs if I'm getting on the highway... I think these cams would ruin my low end torque... And my 20 mi to the gallon.... Full-size club cab truck.
if you want mpg-stay stock
Would these be a good choice for a daily driver G8 GT?
yes
@@richardholdener1727 Thank you for the response!
No matter the application, do you think the BTR torque cam would offer the best MPG over any aftermarket cam? Also, would you say it would yield better mileage over stock truck cams due to higher torque at lower RPMs? If so,
I think anyone that puts a lot of highway miles on a work truck, for example, would benefit from the BTR torque cam over any other cam.
Could you give some input on daily drivers and overall efficiency on the LS platform?
With those LS3 heads you need more lift to take advantage of the head flow. These are good cams just not enough lift for head. I'm in the same boat with my L77. Really you need close to .600 lift.