Can The BMW R18 Compete With Harley-Davidson?
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- Опубліковано 16 гру 2019
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I owned an 2002 R1200C BMW. That, to me, was BMW’s best attempt at a cruiser. It was an amazingly good bike.
From the bullet proof engine, to the anti lock brakes (this was back in 2002!). Even before James Bond drove it on the big screen , it was a winner in my book.
I also owned the R1200C for about 10 years. It was a great bike to ride comfortable and reliable and never skipped a beat but the day I bought a Harley dyna wide glide I lost interest in riding the Bmer. The R1200C was never a big seller in the states and I can't see the R1800 being any different even tho it's a cool looking bike.
I'm sure the price tag competes very well with Harley's.
The exposed rotation of the driveshaft is a nice touch and Harley riders should remember that competition breeds innovation and design. This is a good thing for the segment. Like it or not Harley can no longer rely on its aging core consumers to be around for their next bike.
Your channel getting a really professional feel to it and well put together features.
Thanks aaron! I enjoyed putting this one together
I suspect the reverse gear isn't motivated by weight. Rather, with that big boxer sticking out how could you push it?
Good point!
Indeed!
Good thinking. Keep posting.
Stephen Johnson, tried pushing a late model Ultra Classic???
@@GraemeBlore Haven't had the "pleasure." I have enough trouble with a small hill and a 2008 Fat Bob. It doesn't have to be huge to be a burden. With the design of the R18 legs have no place to go.
I'd love to have a rocket 3 motor to put in a custom bobber frame
Bro, this looks so awesomeness. I'm sure there will be some more accesories that will make this comfortable for long distances. I alao would like to see you do a real life test of this on a bit patchy and broken roads.
Regards
Joy
Well done video, most informative and helpful
Something along the lines of the K100 longitudinally mounted 4 cylinder liquid cooled motor configuration in an 1800cc + cruiser, to kind of sit somewhere between the old Indian Four and the modern Rocket3.
GREAT review.
Thank You.
Very authentic informative video, tanks keep going
So many me too, cars and bikes! Agree! You must look for emblems on cars/bikes to see who makes it.
hey mate for your videos do you ask like bmw or other press vids if you can use them or is it ok ? thanks mate
Gonna be very difficult to overcome the BMW stigma here in the states. But it will be interesting to watch.👍🏼
What stigma is that?
Love that art-deco look that motor has.
They look Great , really well explained cheers
I want a slippy clutch in all my bikes so I'm glad they're doing it. Quite the sell point for me tbh.
A light lever feel on a bike this torquey is a definite plus. The rocket 3 has one so I guess they have to keep pace
Nyleen If you want a slippy clutch, just pour some oil on the clutch plates...
No one is doing a better job of turning people away from harley, than harley.
The only problem I see is the engine blocks the option for adding forward controls or even highway pegs for relaxing on the highway.
Very nice... I am already a big fan of BMW's flat twin motor. I can't wait to try it....
I think it looks fantastic in the video, but how this translates into the production version, only time will tell, I remember getting excited about the R9T in concept guise.
Exactly. There are some spy shots getting around and they are looking ominously more conventional than the concepts.
Should have just called it "The Big Box"
I definitely love this bike I’m not buying simply cause I’m not in the market for a new bike but man I love the way this bmw is looking and I’d love to test one out and see them out on the streets
if you want a cruiser which is different..... this is the one.. i like it alot..
Several things from a motorcyclist of 32 years with 480K miles on my Arse.
1) Mids only? no hwy, no way to stretch out. calf cookers, not good.
2)shaft drive is quiet/lo maint but suffers with to much drive train power loss
3)great low seat height/C of gravity thou
4)comes standard w/winter foot warmers
Wouldn’t mind riding 1 of those R-18 .. they look pretty kool... more or less like da H-D Duce softail
I like your more technical reviews and I think this bike definitely has a certain appeal but maybe not that practical in our cramped island.
that black ones very nice
Being a bit of a Harley enthusiast (I have a -02 FXSTB and a -18 FXFBS st. IV), I think this bike is the only thing BMW ever made that I would like to own. They took a giant step back in their design history and struck gold, picking up influences from the thirties, i think... Would it sell to the 'merrycans? I really do not know, but as a short range cruiser it may find its riders in the USA.
Well I haven’t seen any accessories offered for the r18 ?
Are there any rear saddle bag options?
Seems like that’s where Harley and Indian have an advantage and what the majority of riders I see riding having on their bikes.
Good looking bike! Something about that Harley Shield though 😍! Shopping for a Softail Slim soon but this R18 is a good look!
Only way I see this doing well in America is if it is priced below $18k USD. Better show good ways to attach aftermarket bags. I'd just be too worried about scraping those jugs. Also, ruining them either going down or just a tip over. Did he mention the weight of the bike?
Can’t believe I’m going to say this....Harley-Davidson is simply going to be more affordable. Always enjoy your videos.
I still have my 1998 R1200C I bought new and currently own a 2018 HD Heritage with the 107 engine. My BMW was a great tourer. With saddlebags, a duffle, and a windshield I took many a trip with her. And the 2018 Heritage will also be a good tourer. The new R18 is an exciting bike. I don't see myself riding one however. It doesn't seem like the kind of bike you could throw on saddlebags and go for a long trip. We'll need to see what the final production bikes look like.
Love it. Going to buy one.
I ride a Guzzi V9 Bobber so my legs are somewhere between mid and forward controls cause the engine cams are near the knees but the boxer is on your shins which means only mid controls. It just doesn't look to comfortable to me...
Yeah, the rear gear will stop you from smashing your shins into the cylinder heads when walking it backwards, good point Stephen. Beautiful bike! cant wait. That will look nice next to my 1600 GTL
Legs looks cramped big time. Also no space to stretch them out. I think this alone will stop them from selling many in the USA.
Agreed! The mid control softails get uncomfortable if you can't stretch out your legs. The boxer motor is going to prevent highway pegs being feasible.
Thomas Stropes exactly . I’m 6”2 and my legs would be crunched on this thing . I like it but I just don’t see me being comfortable on it .
Good point
Disagree. Only the 'Mercans think fwd controls are normal. Pretty impossible on anything that actually goes round corners and has a modicum of performance. The rest of the world thinks mids is normal. Practical and comfortable. Or even slightly rear set. This will be a huge sales success especially in Europe and Asia. The black mk l concept has as much heritage in its looks as any HD. Wonderful.
@@hughsnyder891 i'm 6'3" and i ride mids and slighyly rear sets. Stopped riding fwd controls 20 years ago. It gets tiresome real quick when sitting at 80 per all day long.
So the maroon version that was shown in short clips of the beginning is another concept or what the final R18 is going to look like? If it does look like that maroon bike I may have a replacement for my Victory one day!
Agree with RWDTURBO, cant see how they can make a "cruiser" with the legs straight up and down. Doesnt appear to be any way around this issue. Long distance cruiser? bagger? not with that leg room!
Stunning looks ... comfortable for long trips ?? I doubt it ... great for week end city ride and you’ll get ... wow, uh, ah ... that’s it
Great update!
Thanks PP
Yes, have 3 boxers, love the sound at rev. R90, 2 r100, r90 is super light weight
If it had "Harley Davidson" emblazoned on the side, would be the only way to get Harley riders interested. As a yank who rides a metric cruiser I find the design intriguing, albeit a bit broad. I do like the classic BMW looks, especially the front forks. Yes, I do question the legroom availability or lack thereof, but I do like what I see. The only way to know for sure is to put miles, or kilometers on it. I'd love to ride one. Thanks for posting this.
I had money at the ready to buy the earlier simple designed black bobber prototype but definitely not the newer red!
The number of videos about the R18 and the Rocket 3 suggest huge interest. That will translate into sales.
You are EXACTLY right: it is hard to get excited about minor improvements. There are a lot of great bikes designs. They haven't just "stood the test of time"; they have been tweaked and improved over many years. If you are laying out hard cash for A bike, its risky to buy something "new and different." Look at the R18 and those cylinders... I wouldn't want to drop THAT bike. Similarly, put bags on it and the look is ruined. Finally, water cooling has hit Indian. It is just better tech. Its not on the R18 menu.
I can't see people "leaving" Harley or Indian to get this bike. I can sure see people who can afford a few horses in the stable to snatch up one of these.
It's interesting. I know my Harley, my Rocket 3, and my VTX1800. They are comfortable heavy cruisers. I reserve judgment until I twist the throttle on anything. Being 6'2" tall, leg room looks tight.
Seeing that u-joint spinning around reminds me of how, in The Great Gatsby, Isadora Duncan got strangled when her scarf got caught in the wheel
That is how Isadora died in real life, but not in the Great Gatsby. I read the book.
very much look forward to see this in the flesh, looks fab! a big European twin cruiser, a mix of new and old without copying somebody else's design. I have both BMW & HD at the moment and whilst I love the HD, the BMW is far better for long distance mountain cruising in Europe, I've covered 600mls in one day in snow, freezing fog, rain a few years back on my old R1100. Wouldn't have done that on the HD. Forward pegs, just like ape hangers, not an issue as far as I'm concerned. Unsuitable for mountain cruising, very difficult to raise yourself and keep control in emergency situation, such as speed ramps in town, pot holes out of town. wide engine will take some getting used to but its not as supersport bike so ride it as what it is. I hope it'll be a success,if the price is right!
What's the perfect height for the r18?
I've put down my deposit, currently ride GSA 1250 and S1000xr, previously ridden Wings, never a Harley, my only concern is that your feet might get cooked underneath the pistons, looking forward to the test ride later this year
Hate to see those thumbs down... even if this motorbike is not your cup of tea, I reckon the video is well researched and nicely put together... recent sub to your channel, sir... please do carry on!
Has anyone checked out the 961 Norton Cafe Racer? I had a 850 Commando back in the day!
The 961 Commando looks pretty good as well.
A friend had the Commando and pput a super charger on it, I thought that a dumb thing to do, I rode a Harley 900, his bike didn't move as fast as mine, he really didn't know how to ride, damn nice bike for sure.
@@jymebale5545 I'm riding a 95 Heritage Softail now, had it forever. Got 57,000 miles on it. 1340 the engine that saved Harley!
Wish I had the old Commando back they're bringing about 10 grand
I was just looking at some videos on the 650 Royal Enfield Made in India, still a sharp-looking bike!
I'm not sure if it's going to tempt many American Harley owners away from their brand but I am sure it will definitely get some Aviation fanatics looking at changing their power plant brands 🤗.
Love the naked olde skool drive shaft! Sadly, you’ll never break the American market, Americans are loyal to the brand and patriotic enough to ‘buy American’ regardless of quality. Something we Brits should emulate.
you are kidding brother. The reason HD is sliding in sales is because they have been lazy, & not done anywhere near enough to try new cooling methods for the venerable v twins. Their suspension is an absolute joke on Aussie roads, where we actually have bumps. Meanwhile other manufacturers are progressing in leaps and bounds. Compare a Rocket 3 to ANY HD, & there is NO comparison, plus price wise way better value. In tourers the Indians are significantly better in almost every facet, engineering wise. BTW, I have been a HD owner since 1976, and currently ride a full dresser, only because I can't afford a new Triumph, but maybe that will change!
So I guess you won't need crash bars, since you can just put it down on the cylinder heads. :-)
Looks to be aimed directly at the HD Low Rider S. Would love to see a comparison video between the two.
I’d say FXDR...?
GunzGonda Possibly , but I figured Low Rider S because of the mid controls and its popularity among the younger crowd.
@@leward I thought about it a bit more, I probably said FXDR because of seeing the short clip during this video. You're right about the mid controls. EIther way, I'd love to take one of these for a test ride when it's released.
GunzGonda Most definitely!
I have an issue with the foot position. Those heads block the bike from having forward controls and pegs. That makes for an uncomfortable leg position over a long ride.
Have a soft spot for boxer engines and the old school look but I wouldn’t swap my 19 Breakout for this thing and doubt it’ll be much like this on the floor and yeah, riding with your feet stuck behind the jugs with no options for forward controls (imagine how wide they’d be) isn’t good for us old arthritic blokes who need to be able to move around.
I would have thought you would show the old school bikes that are very similar!
If the R18 was available now...... my Triumph Rocket R3 pre-order may have a wobble..... Reminds me of a WW2 aircraft..... love it - dare to be different.
How about the front brake lever operates both brakes. Kool.
I appreciate the BMW video and thank you for your effort. My comment is, as a Florida resident motor heat is an issue while in traffic which is about 70%of the riding/waiting for lights time. I do not believe that BMW, Indian nor HD solve this problem. Cooler engines mean less dehydration, less discomfort and more driving time for us older guys and gals. So, what will BMW do to lead the pack?
I like it. Thanks brother.
Those obtrusive jugs and mid-mounted foot controls will kill the bike.
'Obtrusive jugs' just about sums up that boxer engine. 😅😂
Mid controls are the only way to go.
Dick Johnson on some bikes, absolutely. Not a cruiser designed to compete with HD, and not behind those huge cylinders. If BMW’s goal is to take significant market share from HD, it’s DOA.
You might be right. I’d still rather have a 2019 Softail.
I don’t get why it’s only 90hp. The 1250cc version of this is 130hp. This thing should have 150 pretty easily. Disappointed that BMW didn’t give it more power.
Edit: I just realized it’s air cooled. That will limit the power, but 90hp still seems way too low.
I love how that bike looks.
But bikes fall, and I dont want to see the bill when repairing that engine.
dmaxcustom
It will be easy to pick it up if it folds over. Yes, repairing the cylinders after a fall will be stupid expensive. But, hey, it is so damn cool
@Roger Dodger This is biggest boxer engine they have ever made. The volume difference is noticeable, thus making it an issue in my eyes. And if I am proven wrong then all the better.
I dont think this is daft. BMW Mad beautiful lookin bikes back in the day. These are great for the cruiser world. Good to see a bit of change and competition cruisers are big in australia too
Looks! Power! Panache! what more!
Any updates about your street twin? I hope the next video is about your bike. Haven't seen it in a while.
Yes mate! Literally got a huge box of parts to give it a bit of a spruce up over winter. I just moved house though so trying to get the garage straight so I can start filming...
@@motobob nice I can't wait to see it. Keep up the good work!
It would have been nice to hear them both.
Judging by comments in other R18 videos, this bike will sell like mad when released. Dealers are taking deposits on customer speculation, that's not an every day thing. Glad I'm not interested in owning this bike! 🇨🇦
Harley's still sell great I guess but there are three times as many used one's for sale as new, why is this, people just get tired of riding them, some tire of the vibration and they still leak oil more than any other bike on the road.
People forget that one of the biggest selling points for Harley Davidson is the sound their engines make. A boxer will never sound as cool as a Harley in the American eyes. Plus, we like forward controls. Neat bike though.
Erod Rod Didn’t notice how far back the controls are until you mentioned that. Hadn’t thought about the sound. Good points. I have loved its looks for 2 years now, from photos on the internet
Any twin can be timed to make the right sound. Like Yamahas fz07 (much higher revving tho) or the old husqvarna nuda 900.
This BMW will likely sound great so long as they don't have an even firing order.
I do think they should have gone with a bigger displacement, 1900-2100cc. and they better offer power upgrades from cams to big bore kits.
Some people don't like the Harley sound. Louder is not always better.
@@swampy6194 not necessarily the volume, but the exhaust note itself.
@@taylor2105 Fair enough.
I am not a huge fan of BMW, but I do like the boxer engine, I don't think this will sell well, but I could quite easily see it becoming a collector bike.
Who customized rhe red one at the beginning?
I had BMW R1200C the cruiser BMW made untill 2004/2005 its is a great bike.Enough power and very good torgue and superb handling.There are cilinderprotection brackets on the market from BMW and Wunderlich.Its special made for laying your legs on it.I sure that they are going to produce something like this again.Nothing can beat German engineering.
Forget to say its very comfortabele for the legs.
That open shaft drive is just asking for straps, shoelaces, clothing or anything loose basically to be caught up in it. Interesting bike though.
plxsfy Yeah - looks very dangerous for me too 🤔
I really like the looks of this new BMW. I liked the more simple bobber look better than the latest prototype myself, I don't really care for the more modern yuppie look, I wish they'd stay or at least offer the more classic look of the bobber. By the way, when do we get to hear one of these running?
Nice looking bike , simple design and classic nostalgic look. less is more . not designed as a tourer but could be , not designed as a chopper type bike , looks like an everyday day , the way it used to be .
BMW looks mega. Harley and Indian riders all want forward controls. Bit of an issue with two 900cc cylinders in the way. River 3 GT is the new Cruiser Heavyweight Competition for H-D.
The bent legs riding position and hot cylinders right in front of my knees kills it for me
Only if your riding in shorts (which I never do..) my r100 was comfy all the time
The cylinders are in the wind. They are not really hot.
INDIAN bagger over 26k massive and heavy is not the target competition.BMW will appeal to folks who simply love motorcycles and what's not to love R18 in black classic mode if they produce that! Most unique bike out there!Once released, I am thinking Tesla Cyber Track now...
Saw it at the long Beach IMS this year. Looks cool but won't be able to tell unless I throw a leg over it. But interesting none the less. Still a Harley Davidson dude myself
I bet money that most of the guys that don't like the bike have never rode a boxer. They are awesome the center of gravity is low and u can still split lanes no problem. Oh and No the heads don't scrape the ground in a turn.😁
Depends on how much you lean it.
@@Mrbadluck65 the pegs hit b4 the heads are u riding through your pegs?
@@ryanGnVtown I have done, yes. In my younger days I loved to corner so hard the pegs flipped up. I don't do that anymore. Nowadays I enjoy straddling the bike, stretching my legs out, lean a little backwards and just enjoy the road, instead of enjoying only the curves.
I don't think this is going to sway many Harley enthusiasts. More likely it'll bite into Triumph's sales of the Bobber, Rocket 3 and Thunderbird as an "out there" alternative to the traditional v-twin cruiser. With that said, the concepts have shown that it could make for a great custom bike platform, but that distinctive engine will limit its appeal in that regard as well. Those cylinder heads are way too prone to getting scratched up, and the first time the bike lowsides or even gets dropped in a parking lot, it's on the tow truck heading back home. Personally I love it, it looks comfortable with gorgeous styling, and the competitive spec sheet makes me think it'd be a blast to ride, but it's not going to replicate Triumph's success with the Bobber or sway many from a traditional American v-twin.
Heated grips? Heated seat? Foot and shin baking standard!
I’ll never switch up on Harley but you have to appreciate other motorcycles ... if I won the lottery I’d definitely get one though!
Harley riders have ridden my BMW and loved it and stated they'd like to have one along with their Harley's, I told them I'd love to have another Harley, not because they were so great but for many other reasons.
LOVE IT!
Compete? Yes, but it's Harley that will have to compete. This beautiful machine is in a class of its own.
they going to release it as a bagger/touring?? or you just comparing it to harley/indians big touring bikes for hp/torque comparison
I like it because it's reminiscent of the old BMW bikes from the warriors and 40s styling is very appealing but for anybody who likes forward controls, this bike won't work, I see a great for short rides and for anybody who likes to ride in a very upright position
BMW and Triumph will move some serious units...
Marcus Aurelius Yeah, but not to American cruiser buyers.
That's not a competition. That's a wipeout.
It's caught my eye as someone who was looking to going to an indian maybe, ive held off on my old bike to see what we really do get....... would still hope bmw will do more than a basic bobber and add a bagger and maybe even a slightly smaller engine for some people.
They are some big jugs for sure but the latest red concept R18 has a great look with beautiful paint job and I wouldn't be surprised if the prod version looks close to identical.
Can a Harley compete with my mothers old sowing machine?(At least they sowing machine is useful!)
They still don't have the right bike if they want to do well with cruisers in America...
in the U.S. people drive a lot bigger distances then the fact that you can't stretch your legs becomes a big issue !
i have 2 BMW and they are awesome bikes but if i go cross country , i take my yamaha stratoliner , which it of course a blatant copy of the harley , but better .
: )
The BMW cylinders go where feet should go. So the rider must assume the duck walk position. Great for 1,000 miles in one day.
I like it but they should make a version with half the displacement weight and price.
Most likely will not take too much sales away from Both USA bike manufacturers , R18 isn't a land cruiser. More like a Bar hopper. Will be taken away sales from the Japanese . Just like there S1000rr did.