*COMMENT below what I should cover next!* Go to betterhelp.com/ryanhollinger for 10% off your first month of therapy with BetterHelp and get matched with a therapist who will listen and help.
Better help is a scam, take “therapists” who when you have an actual panic attack tell you to go to the ER and don’t actually have anything to say. It’s pathetic. About as qualified as the guy next door who works as a garbage man.
The concept of targeting crooked cops is good. But I don't think the movie did it justice tbh. It felt more like a Chris Rock vanity project than anything.
It was just one of his comedy routines mixed with a generic dirty cop story with the traps and some references to Jigsaw to make it seem like a Saw film.
@@iusedtowrite6667 I wouldn't be surprised if it was originally a completely different film they added Saw elements to hoping the Saw name would sell it.
Not even a serious role. He still in a way is playing a comedy roll just every now and then he has to act serious. But like, he’s done that before in other films 😂
I felt like this could have been a turning point for the series, but it wasn’t. The idea of a copycat cop killer going after dirty cops is a great idea, but execution (no pun intended) is everything. There is a good story here, but it just needed a few more drafts or a better pair of writers to bring it out. It probably didn’t help that the critics have NEVER liked Saw. If the day ever comes where the best Saw movie actually doubles as an amazing film in its own right, the critics will never recognize it.
ya it just needed a few tweaks. but I like that it was more personal grudge than actual justice. same for many of thr corrupted cops compromising themselves. I kinda like the concept of going after people that think corruption for thrbsake of (safety) or society is a good idea. the next one should be going after sjw that exploit people
Yeah, sadly Saw as a franchise has gone through what many horror media in general tends to go through when it comes to critics. Horror is often a genre that gets dunked on by critics often (and even when something like Silence of the Lambs got Oscars back in the day, it was also one of those movies that people and critics would debate whether it's more of a thriller or crime drama rather than a horror movie. Because heaven forbid we get a horror movie getting critical acclaim. *sarcasm*)
Well, the critics have recognised it now; Saw X has an 80% on Rotten Tomatoes, the first Fresh rating of the franchise! In comparison, the second highest critical rating on the site for a Saw movie is Saw 2004 at 50%, and the average critical rating of the nine movies before X is about 29%.
I think the issue is with Chris Rock writing, we all expected something unique. And it turned out to be a totally ordinary totally average horror sequel
Pretty much. They advertised this thing as a reboot that would reinvigorate the series etc... and it was just another Saw movie that really didnt do anything different than the others.
I still remember when Chris Rock hosted the Oscars the year Saw came out he asked normal people at a movie theater what their favorite movie of the year was. One guy said Saw. And Chris Rock seemed confused/intrigued by that answer. I was hyped because I agreed with the guy. (I was also like 13) I like to think the wheels have been spinning since then, and in that case... he got to make his movie and I think that's neat. I liked it for what it was and I was happy to feel like I was back in the world of those first few movies I loved so much.
I enjoyed it when I first watched, I've always enjoyed the franchise, I like them as fun movies. And I saw Spiral with two close friends, and I still like what it brings to the franchise, I just think it needs more updates moving forward
The only Saw movie I never liked was the one where half of it is doing brain surgery on Jigsaw. I can handle cartoon violence all day. Even if it's applied to the human blood-sacs they throw into horror movies. But I tap the hell out at realistic depictions of surgery.
The one thing I will give the Saw sequels credit for is continuing the stories of people like, Hoffman, Gordon etc throughout the film and not just replacing the cast each time.
@@anubusx rewatch Saw 1, and you will see there was plenty of hints that he would become a jigsaw apprentice, it just that they just fotgot about for the next five movies and then just brought it back in the 7
It's perfectly fine for a Saw movie. The only thing that bugged me was how obvious the twist was. They needed to film the detective's 'death' similarly to the other victims. Hell, just write in that he killed a lookalike it's the Saw universe.
I actually liked it a lot. I like the hints it gives that schenk doesn't actually care about justice in the police system, rather revenge against those who had wronged him. I know the bit where zeke and schenk pour substances into an addicts wound is divisive and often called a plot hole but honestly I see it a key character moment for both. For all of the talk Schenk makes about police reform and stopping corrupt cops, he is willing to do the same actions against the addict. the only difference being that the addict had committed a crime, Schenk's father and the victims he cites did not. In a way it shows that Schenk doesn't actually care about all police brutality victims. he cares about the ones who hadn't committed a crime. A mentality that a lot of people discussing this issue has. Its always a talking point that X victim was actually a big bad criminal, with an underlying implication that they deserved it because of the crimes they committed in the past. Personally I think both Zeke and Schenk are very fascinating characters that are a bit limited by the writing and would love to see a new spiral that expands both.
@@whiteeye3453 damn funny that i never mentioned him. but if we are really doing this, consider the following: committing a crime in the past or even the present does not mean a cop can put justice in their own hands when the suspect isn't in a position to threaten the police. George Floyd is certainly no hero, but he is a victim who should have been able to protest his innocence in the court of law. hope this helps!
Great analysis. We live in a warped time (or maybe it's been like this forever) where former or reformed criminals are considered unworth of their humanity or protection. The movie definitely tapped into that aspect but in a nuanced and subtle way.
@@Polygonyall exept j don't belive that everyone deserve innocence and safty after what they did what about dictators such as hitrel or stalin do they deserve protest their innicence even thought they didn't have any ?
Before I watch my short answer is it's complicated. As a fan I was looking forward to anything new with the Saw franchise. But this was worse than just a paint by numbers story. What killed it for me was the fact that the twist was not only predictable, but it doesn't really feel like its leading anywhere exciting. After the video: I'll admit that Zeke (though being kind of goofy) can actually be a good character given that he is compelled to uphold the law despite everything its cost him. And I love how you saw the common themes The Batman and Spiral have given that both villains seek to stop corruption in similar ways. Though I never thought to consider The Batman as better version of Spiral minus the excess of blood and gore.
seeing twists coming can be fun if there's hints hidden that are obvious in hindsight, but this story wasn't fun or interesting enough to make that aspect a positive here
spiral to me is like the parody of batmans logic "if i kill one person i will immiedatly become a eriall illing monster with no morals" and spiral did that so his response is brutal sadism and hypocrisy. and that coming from me who already dosent like batmans logic that one tragic ill is all it takes to send superheros into devils its also insulting to real life cops and police like commionisser gordon implying "your just as bad the joker"
A page out of the “book of Saw” and the downward spiral into chaos that happens from trauma and abuse (personal and institutional. That’s pretty much exactly how I interpreted it. None of the villains had a point and the fact that so many people interpret them as anti-heroes is a good bit of meta commentary, similar to how many people got the exact wrong message from Fight Club.
that what drove me nuts the writers of saw portraying kramer as if he was anything but a monster when he was openly hypocritical many times about putting innocent people in harms way as part of the test of guilty people. at least AFTER kramer died they were willingly to actually show the hypocritical erial illers as what they were people looking for excuses to ill.
I really like how the traps in spiral seem to be escapable on the surface but are really just killing machines that torture a person before their inevitable demise. The biggest problem with this film is that I'm pretty sure a sequel was intended to be made but it's never a guarantee that a sequel will happen so we just have a story with a bunch of unanswered questions and story threads that go nowhere.
@@CoOlKyUbI96 I meant that it was unclear to the audience. Amanda's traps were very clearly inescapable and you'd have to actually do what was said to find out you were just gonna die. These traps were impossible even if you played by "the rules". Also I'm pretty sure Hoffman's traps were just following Kramer's plans he made before he died except for the one that was for his sister's killer and when he went on a murder spree but I don't recall him using traps to do that.
PLEASE reconsider the BetterHelp sponsorship - they do not treat the therapists on their platform very well at all, and they also don't really deal with any issues beyond "mild" even though their ads suggest they offer on-call support during panic attacks and other crises. Thank you 🙏
Although the "twist" sucked. The only good twist was the first one. This film was really fun. Predictable but alot of fun. And I fully support Chris Rock going for more serious roles. I think he is perfect for it.
@@kingsarues1586 maybe not in retrospect, but when it released I was like 14 or 15 so it felt pretty serious. And obviously it got more ridiculous as the sequals went on. I think if they just stopped at 1, it would be more of a horror classic than it already is despite the ridiculous franchising.
Are we cool with Better Help sponsorships now despite the fact they don’t offer actual therapists and there’s no guarantee you’re going to get their ‘better’ help..?
Honestly I just watched it last night and kinda enjoyed it tbh just felt like there was meant to be slightly more to it and the killer was so obvious I assumed the twist would be he was helping angie untill she died (like I assumed she was dirty and was previously "reformed" through a jigsaw trap and was trying to reform the department by carrying on jigsaws legacy)
I liked it honestly, I enjoyed the voice of the killer being different, the traps were also pretty unique since this killer wasn't some genius architect and I think it's a good reboot.
I wasn't a huge fan of the voice change but considering he's a copycat killer and basically everyone from the Kramer crew is dead or not acknowledged at all in this movie, it makes since so it didn't upset me
As usual, great video, Ryan! I agree, there was definitely potential in Spiral to explore the hypocrisy of Kramer's legacy. Interesting that you picked up on the hybrid Rigg-Mathews connection, Rigg is why I thought Saw 4 was pretty cool. You could really tell Chris Rock went full tilt for this, regardless of how it ended up appearing.
My biggest gripe with Jigsaw & Spiral was that they introduced new Saw characters into the universe, but there were so many from previous films whose fates were never revealed. Eric’s son from Saw II, Jeff’s daughter from Saw IV, the mother & son from the end of Saw VI, etc. What would have made for a much more interesting spinoff in the Saw universe would be to bring in those already established characters and let the fans know where they are now. Did some of them carry on Jigsaw’s legacy? Are others resentful towards John Kramer, who’s been dead for years, while people like Dr. Gordon are continuing the games? This franchise is 9 entries deep with another on the way, but there’s so much that could be done with characters who are already established.
The issue there lies with the fact thay non of the mentioned characters so to speak played a role in the bigger picture and were just used a motivations for our main character to continue through the traps and saw 2 is a perfect example. The entire time Eric is doing everything to get his son out of the trap even though the game has actually already ended and if Eric listened to kramer he would have found his son, Eric's son didn't actually matter so to speak in the end of the film, more so how he was used to expose Eric's flaws and the extent that kramer was willing to go too, same applies to the mother and son, they were innocent, if not victims in saw VI and were used to punish the main guy, they weren't important.
I really hope that they continue the Book of Saw. Not Spiral, per say, but the Book of Saw because I really like the composition of Spiral and applying John Kramer as a cautionary tale or an inspiration. This was an interesting depiction of real life issues and I hope they have the censored trap on the blu ray.
I always thought Act 2 would have been interesting if Schenk is kidnapped and it's a race against the clock to save him. The trap is legit and damages Schenk's body, but Zeke manages to save him in the nick of time. Regardless, Schenk is left hospital ridden. That would make the reveal at the end better, since he really did seem like a red herring.
I agree that this is one of the closest in tone to the original Saw's tone of a police thriller. I think it is better to have the series go into copycats using Jigsaw's image and legacy for their own twisted philosophy instead of adding on to the convoluted chain of John Kramer committing a murder that we just didn't know about. Like do we really need another story trying to milk Tobin Bell for movies that keep overcomplicating his story?
I don’t know, I actually really enjoyed this movie. It was a nice break to have a Saw related movie that wasn’t all about the increasingly elaborate traps. I enjoyed this more than any of the later Saw movies, Chris Rock was a really pleasant surprise too.
I want more Saw films like this. Not necessarily with Chris Rock, but give me more stories about how the real Jigsaw influenced the world around him. Give me a movie about two different cuts of Jigsaw who have conflicting views of what his reasons/methods really were and they are in a battle to "save" a town this causing more escalation from both until things boil over. Give me a movie about a city coulcil of a small town with a perverted take on Jigsaw's methods that just use it as an excuse to kill those they don't like to make the town a "better" place (yes I know this is a exactly like Hot Fuzz but I still think it could be done differently enough to stand on it's own, maybe). Give me a film about a new teen in school (Bill) and he seems to be protective of the kids who get picked on, almost starting a fight his first day defending one of them(Tim), whom he them makes good friends with. The other kid is struggling to fit in also being new. The bullies start getting killed in really demented ways, almost like they are being tested. Bill, having had altercations with the bullies is the prime suspect but he denies doing it (even though some circumstantial evidence points to him) he states that he doesn't know if the other kid is worth standing up for with everything happening or if he should still do it to protect himself (I imagine the film with a lot of internal dialogue from him, being the POV character). Of course there will be red herrings to mix things up. Once everything falls into place and everyone "realizes" Tim is the killer WE find out that it was Bill all along, and he was playing Tim from the beginning. He then sets Tim up in a test that Tim is sure to fail, this making it look like suicide because he knew he had been "caught". All the internal dialogue will be reframed to him being unsure of Tim, and wary of what Tim is going to do, not because Tim was the killer, but because he needed Tim to do certain things for the plan to play out the way it did. He then mentions how Tim is not a good person, bringing up a small "bad thing" (a porn addiction or he smokes weed occasionally) that he uses to justify Tim taking responsibility for everything this showing how messed up he really is, while he already starts musing over who neesa to be punoshes next, looking at a teacher amd asking himswld if its too soon to start again.
I really enjoyed Spiral, but I'm also absolutely obsessed with the Saw movies and lore. I thought it was super fun to see a take on the same concept with new and mostly unrelated lore.
I think the concept was way better than the script could allow it to be. IF there is a sequel in the same universe where Zeke chases 's William while he goes Law Abiding Citizen on the town or another town throughout the cat and mouse chase with his same philosophy it could be a much more fun ride
When I was growing up and first getting into horror, it was during that little "torture porn" era. In fact I actually don't like supernatural horror at all. As such I have some pretty strange choices when it comes to the whole horror comfort food concept you've brought up before. Saw 1 and 2 for example. So every time a new Saw comes out, I feel like I have to see it, despite how soulless the franchise became. Given the retrospective of seeing them all, I'd say the two biggest mistakes all the sequels make is this, number 1, the ever growing over emphasis and over complexity of the traps. Number 2, the fact that a "unpredictable" twist at the end became obligatory. This is because it's essentially what made the first so legendary, but attempting to reproduce that everytime made the whole series a mess. I mean, at this point, half of any entry in the franchise is flash backs cause they killed jigsaw off way too early to keep making them. Lol
Killer: "Hello, Ryan. One of the 13 Ray-Con ear buds contains the code that releases the Spiral trap. You have a minute to..." Ryan: "HOYEVER." Killer: "Once again, well played."
I truly enjoyed it. The characters were the best in any of the previous films, since we learend about Jigsaw/John Kramer. It also got me more excited for the potential future of the franchise, after being burned out on a 4 film arc about Detective Hoffman, retconning and rewriting the past to accommodate the present, and a declining quality due to the repetitive nature with nothing new added. There were many things that worked for it, mainly the fact it shows that John Kramer's legacy has indeed lived on, and can live on within the world of Saw, without constantly needing to inject him into the story. We know his history, there is nothing that needs to be added, or shown that would give any revelation we cannot already perceive. Shnek using Jigsaw's methods is very smart, when you consider that Kramer was the only known suspect, and the others were discovered too late (Hoffman), never known about (Dr. Gordon and his crew), got away with it as far as we know, (Logan), or dead (Amanda). Shnek is both an interesting blend of Kramer's philosphy where a choice is to be given, and the other's skewed view where the game has to he rigged. This attitude Kramer had, is what allowed him to get away with it and go as long as he had. But with Tapp catching up to him twice, he knew his time was running thin, and was only slowed by his cancer. The rest, Amanda to Shnek, failed and were discovered because of either their narcissistic take on Kramer's M.O (Amanda, Logan, Shnek) or ego and hubris (Hoffman). It shows that there can never be another Jigsaw, whereas legacy films like Scream, show that (regardless of personal feelings we have on the writing or characters) another Ghostface will be as impactful as the original, but never surpassing. Giving the film a more procedural structure, mirrors the first film's attempt and splicing in a detective story into a horror story about what freedom's price is and if you can pay it or show that you are truly weak, and accept your fate. The first 4 Saw films presented a question: Who is this person and how are they getting away with this? Holy shit, he is nearly beaten to death and the cops are after him, how is this going to end? With Jigsaw dead, and Amanda dead, but Matthews seemingly free, what is next? Holy shit, Hoffman is the new heir, how will he get away with this? Each question built the drive and want for a continuation. With Saw V, the question became: Wow! Hoffman was discovered but got away with it, and killed the only one who knew, how is he going to get away with it again? And then that question was asked in a different manner with the next entry. And then answered withing the supposed final installment, but that felt more like a repeating the process of Saw V, but with Hoffman found out about. Yes the question it asked was, "Who will be the new Jigsaw?" But with the quality and interest of the series waining, it felt it did not matter and that we would not get one. With Jigsaw, we were asked a new question, that felt as if the answer was already given to us; How many times are we just going to get a new Jigsaw heir, that deviates from Kramer's teachings? Spiral, asked an entirely new question; Shnek is definitely being hunted down by Zeke and the rest of the force, his face is known and will most likely be caught up to by end of day... but how many other people in the world, who never met or worked with, or were tutored by John Kramer, are influenced to dispatch justice out, when the system does not? And that is why, The Book of Saw, is such an amazing subtitle and concept. John Kramer's work as Jigsaw has been taken note of by everyone, for better or worse. His followers praise him and hold his legacy in regards of doing what needed to be, while not participating themselves (Eleanor from Jigsaw). His imitators (Shnek), showing the public that there are people out there willing to carry on the Jigsaw killings and use the moniker, should be striking fear into the guilty and corrupt, that they could be next. In this universe, living in a post-Jigsaw world, is very similar to the way that young women who dreamed of moving to Los Angeles, to become the next Hollywood bombshell, were both dissuaded and encouraged to attempt after the murder of Elizabeth Short, who would later be dubbed The Black Dahlia. I personally hope that they continue with this anthology style of storytelling for the Saw franchise moving forward. One off stories, that are continuing the legacy of John Kramer.
Jigsaw's philosophy attracted messed up and evil people because his philosophy was messed up and evil. Drives me nuts when people try and paint him as an anti hero. He's straight up a villain. The Emperor and Darth Vader thought they were helping the galaxy in Star Wars too lol
I have no idea - I gave up the franchise after Saw 3. By then the series had turned into misery-porn as far as I'm concerned. I get truly worried when fans tell me the sequels got worse after that.
I think the first Saw was a perfect thriller with a gory twist. It's my favorite saw movie and frankly the only one worth watching. While some of the later movies delve into the backstory, I kinda liked the idea of a puppet master that simply does it to play god.
I'd argue 3 is definitely the goriest, I don't think the franchise ever really topped itself in that regard following on from there (with the possible exception of the autopsy scene in the opening of IV). IMO IV and V are kind of repetitive and forgettable but necessary if you want to follow the overall story, VI is incredibly underrated, 3D (aka 7) is the worst in the franchise, Jigsaw is a lot better than people give it credit for, Spiral is sort of ok-ish in its own right but poor as a Saw movie (none of the new characters are very interesting, the plot is very paint-by-numbers, the twist can be seen a mile off and, spinoff or no spinoff, no Tobin Bell is absolutely unforgiveable), and X is the best in the entire franchise, even better than the first one. For me the overall ranking is probably X, Saw, II, VI, III and Jigsaw for the good ones and IV, V, Spiral and 3D for the mediocre/poor ones.
Ryan's heart of gold and optimism seeks to flatter as best as he can the movie Spiral. Hewyeever Spiral is a completely unredeemable desperate effort for Chris Rock to diversify his portfolio into a perfect demonstration of his present but wildly underdeveloped ability as a serious actor. The poetic injustice is that this disaster is a jigsaw trap destined to forever doom Rock's career outside comedy.
Really enjoying this reminder that I love it when the Batman franchise dips its toes into horror. I'm also rather happy to see this return to the Saw franchise.
I personally love the Saw series (Saw 2 is my favourite), This film was also the first one I got to see in theaters, I honestly just thought it was boring and personally I think Boring is the worst thing a Saw movie can be. I thought the basic idea was good but the actual traps were uninspired and boring to watch, and the villian twist was so shockingly obvious that I would have preferred if we the audience just knew from the begining.
First time ever commenting on this channel even though I love it very much. As someone who enjoys the saw franchise entirely (my favourite is actually 7 even though it’s not the best, it just feels nostalgiac and fun), Spiral felt really fresh and new for the series and I really enjoyed it. It’s a nice return to practical effects and tension. Thank you for covering it!!
I think my biggest problem was it was so dull. They brought back the best of the directors and it's well made but Fincher they were not. Also, Rock is actively bad in it.
As soon as William asked to borrow Rocks cell phone i instantly called him out as the killer there and then. I hope SAW X will show more mystery IF it isn't a prequel to the other saw movies...
This film was a really pleasant surprise for me; I wouldn’t call it “the best Saw film”, but I think it competes with the original for “best film in the Saw franchise”, if you get the distinction. Not perfect at all, but charmingly flawed.
Funny thing is the skin with the partner's tattoo I sniffed out as a fake because of the paint that was found in the box. I don't think it was intentional but I definitely said "Oh, the paint. This tattoo must be a fake."
Great analysis as always, although I stopped watching the ‘Saw’ movies after the second failed to recapture the magic of the first. Not a modern horror, but I’d love to see you cover an older classic, ‘The Legend of Hell House’.
Fun fact, SAW franchise wouldn't exist without Mad Max, (SPOILERS COMING), in first MM movie, at the end where Max caughts the one of the killers who killed his wife and child, Max handcuffes killer to the car that's leaking gasoline, Max gives killer a special saw that can cut the handcuffes, but it takes too long to cut it, so, much more easier and FASTER way to get himself free, killer needs to cut off his leg. This was referenced in first SAW movie, where first trap was similiar like how it was in Mad Max.
As a huge saw fan this movie was everything I wanted after Jigsaw. The return to the editing and color grading of the original movies made me really happy.
I always respected Spiral for trying to do something new with the series instead of just repeating Saw 2 for the nth time (I love the whole series but I could not tell you the difference between Saw 4, 5, and 6) I'm still holding out hope for a Spiral 2, I'd really love to see what they do with Zeke and William going forward.
I was pleasantly surprised by this movie. The traps were great, but it was Chris Rock that was the best part. Plus, this makes two Leathal Weapon actors in the SAW universe.
@@Gundam_JAY the first trap was okay but about as credible as the first trap in Saw 7 + no way you survive more than 5 seconds whitout your lower jaw All the other traps were awful except the finger trap but i personally hate it when the subject does everything he supposed to and still dies
@@hidenname541 The entire franchise is built on the shakiest moral ground possible. "I didn't slap Chris Rock, I put him in a situation where he could chose to be slapped or not!" - Jigsaw, probably
Came here for the Spiral review, got a very much appreciated Batman review! I really liked Batman and seeing you say your opinions on it for a few minutes was such a pleasant surprise.
Funny how you bring up the Batman (even though I didn't care for the recent one, so underwealming) I always felt like the Saw films were essentially Batman movies without Batman, just Batman rogues 1. Cops are either crooked or inept 2. City is dingy and crourrupt to the core 3. Jigsaw is like a combo of Riddler (traps and mindgames), Professor Pyg (the pig mask and surgical tools) and Ventriloquist (The Billy Doll)
I wanted to like this movie - when I was working security, they were filming at this old, historic hospital I was working at overnights. It was so creepy, but absolutely breathtakingly gorgeous. I waited 2 years to see this "Chris Rock horror movie" to come out and THIS is what we got -_-
Chris Rock has that weird scowl of a look on his face. It's a kind of weird look he has, almost don't look like him. Bizarre as he's a comedian and done comedy his whole career, then "BOOM!", he's a cop in a serious horror movie as the main character. He really did show that he had range and can act in any movie he likes. Yes this was the tamest of any of the saw movies. But it was pretty good. It had much more money behind it, and more star power. The first kill was the best. And they did alright with carrying on the series , and in the end was completely obvious who the killer was. That's what really sucked about the movie
I really liked it, but it felt like it suffered from edits. Whether they came from studio notes, rating chasing, test audiences or any of the other silly reason a film goes under the knife, Spiral felt like someone came in and just took heaping spoonfuls of narrative from it.
PMI had a great idea that would've made the ending so much better; reveal that Chris Rock's character knew the whole time who the killer was. Go check out their video on it; it's really better than what we got.
Please Please please do a video on Garth Merenge's Dark Place. I thought I imagined that show and you brought everything flooding back by mentioning it.
Jigsaw’s 100% a murderer under the “felony murder doctrine”. If someone dies (even by accident) when you’re committing a felony, you’re guilty of first-degree murder. Saw takes place in NJ, which follows this law, and every trap revolves around at least one kidnapping.
this is more of a comedy than anything. Watched this the other night and laughed every time Chris Rock delivered a line. It was so strangely offputting.
I have never supported you financially, so I know that my opinion on this doesn't (and one could argue shouldn't) hold as much weight. Still, BetterHelp is a TERRIBLE and unethical company. It is not hard to find a significant amount of information on how they are not to be trusted, particularly in a field that is already so rife with abuse. There is a lot to discuss about creators' obligation to research the brands they accept money from. I'm not going to pretend I don't have a price, especially if I might be in a position where saying no has a severe consequence. I say all this to suggest that if you are someone who has struggled with mental health issues in the past, as you say you are (which there is no shame in, and I commend you sincerely for normalizing it here in your video) that you discontinue taking money from them. I wish you the best of luck with your channel and that it will continue to grow.
Yeah, Angie is a person who is uncomfortably caught in the middle of power struggle between equally unenviable positions, but so is Marcus. They both have had to do a lot of shutting up in order to make it professionally and not invoke retribution from those around them tasked with "upholding" and enforcing the law. They're just older Zekes who shut up long enough to advance up the organizational ladder. And we see what happened to Zeke and his concept of choosing what's right when he still was morally pure; now he's breaking people's legs and is still somehow the most honest cop in his precinct.
Thank you! I laughed so many times watching it, and I wasn’t sure if it was actually supposed to be a dark comedy, or if the writing was just that odd. Some of the lines were just read in a super funny way.
My only issue with this film is the premise. Literally EVERY saw film has cops as the main people being targeted or involved. I don’t know why this film acts like it’s some brand new angle to approach the franchise from. I do find the movie enjoyable though for what it is
I think what made Spiral unique as far as Saw films go was that it felt like its own entity, i mean like it dwelled into a brand new territory with the copycat going after corrupt cops, whereas Kramer went after a whole variety of people. Spiral though a stand alone, you could tell the Saw DNA is within it, while acting as its own narrative and obviously different antagonist who otherwise has nothing to do with either Kramer or Hoffman for that matter. After seeing Saw X which seen return of Kramer, really makes me wonder what is next which the only logical way the series can progress A. A direct sequel to Jigsaw B. A direct sequel to Spiral C. Another prequel set between either 1 and 2 or between 2 and 3 D. Another stand alone because i can really imagine Kramers legacy has inspired many copycats including William
I actually like that the new killer wasnt a psycho path... just a regular person. It proves anyone can be pushed to the limit if pushed a certain way. I know it can be a concicered a bad message but the realism of the film is what i like.
hey man, happy to see this vid from you, but PLEASE look into how awful betterhelp actually are. youtubers rly need to stop taking sponsorships from them, it's just irresponsible
I’m trying desperately to remember which horror UA-camr suggested it, but I agreed with them that making the “twist” that Chris Rock actually catches the copycat would have been a better ending. Also I enjoyed the piss yellow filter they used to give it a unique yet similar visual feel. Oh, and I loved Chris Rock’s scene chewing. I found it immensely entertaining.
Honestly, never understood the thought process behind this movie's conception. They literally made a Saw spin-off, 4 years after a failed "reboot" that starred both Chris Rock and Samuel L Jackson. That's something I'd joke about with my friends.
The funniest thing about this movie is that every single victim decides that yes, I'm going to do this terrible thing that will get me out of this trap and it's going to motherfuck-suck but I want to live! And then they die all anyway.
I remember being turned off when the movie first came out because I thought the whole thing was exploitative and was going to get raked over the coals for talking about police corruption in the midst of all the rioting. Seeing how hard Chris Rock went to bat for this film and the performance he gave, I'm kinda sad I never got into it.
It's another solid guilty pleasure for the SAW canon that is somewhat tainted by the fact that the ingredients were there for something legitimately great. I've described the movie's shortcomings as basically Rock's ambition rubbing up against the constraints of Darren Lynn Bousman's storytelling capabilities
*COMMENT below what I should cover next!*
Go to betterhelp.com/ryanhollinger for 10% off your first month of therapy with BetterHelp and get matched with a therapist who will listen and help.
As Above, So Below (2014)
Mr. Jones (2013)
Underworld series (2003-2017)
Soulmate (2013)
Spike (2008)
Frankenstein (2015) dir. by Bernard Rose
I’d love to see a video on Mike Flanagan’s’Doctor Sleep’ or ‘Midnight Mass’
Better help is a scam, take “therapists” who when you have an actual panic attack tell you to go to the ER and don’t actually have anything to say. It’s pathetic. About as qualified as the guy next door who works as a garbage man.
Night in the Woods
Pink Floyd's The Wall
Fear Clinic
The concept of targeting crooked cops is good. But I don't think the movie did it justice tbh. It felt more like a Chris Rock vanity project than anything.
Sure but it's a really cool Chris Rock vanity project
It was just one of his comedy routines mixed with a generic dirty cop story with the traps and some references to Jigsaw to make it seem like a Saw film.
@@ursidae97 is it cool though?. Is it
@@Xehanort10 yup
@@iusedtowrite6667 I wouldn't be surprised if it was originally a completely different film they added Saw elements to hoping the Saw name would sell it.
My sister said the dumbest decision in the movie is plugging in a unknown flash drive in the police computer
You would be surprised. Government workers are dumb and “just doing their job”
Yeah but like that's why he plugged it into the other guys computer
Most cops have a high school education
Elitist pr*ck
Same could be said for Det. Gordon in The Batman.
Picking a SAW movie as your jump into the "Look I'm a Serious Actor Now" phase of your life is a wild choice.
I doubt think he did it for that, it was just vanity.
New Jack City proved he could do serious acting thirty years ago, Pookie.
Honestly, with all the issues that the franchise has, the acting has been one of the most decent aspects of it
You realize Chris Rock has made more serious movies ans shows before right? Thats one of the reasons the studio felt good trusting him with this.
He was great in Fargo, that did him justice.
Not even a serious role. He still in a way is playing a comedy roll just every now and then he has to act serious. But like, he’s done that before in other films 😂
I’ve watched Ryan for years but the way he edits in his scrunched up face to cover the worst of the nsfw scenes gets me every time 😂
I felt like this could have been a turning point for the series, but it wasn’t. The idea of a copycat cop killer going after dirty cops is a great idea, but execution (no pun intended) is everything. There is a good story here, but it just needed a few more drafts or a better pair of writers to bring it out. It probably didn’t help that the critics have NEVER liked Saw. If the day ever comes where the best Saw movie actually doubles as an amazing film in its own right, the critics will never recognize it.
Agreed!
ya it just needed a few tweaks. but I like that it was more personal grudge than actual justice.
same for many of thr corrupted cops compromising themselves.
I kinda like the concept of going after people that think corruption for thrbsake of (safety) or society is a good idea. the next one should be going after sjw that exploit people
Yeah, sadly Saw as a franchise has gone through what many horror media in general tends to go through when it comes to critics. Horror is often a genre that gets dunked on by critics often (and even when something like Silence of the Lambs got Oscars back in the day, it was also one of those movies that people and critics would debate whether it's more of a thriller or crime drama rather than a horror movie. Because heaven forbid we get a horror movie getting critical acclaim. *sarcasm*)
Agreed. They didn’t even like the first one and that film is a good film in its own right.
Well, the critics have recognised it now; Saw X has an 80% on Rotten Tomatoes, the first Fresh rating of the franchise! In comparison, the second highest critical rating on the site for a Saw movie is Saw 2004 at 50%, and the average critical rating of the nine movies before X is about 29%.
Session 9 please. One of the undisputed hidden gems when it comes to psychological horror.
The movie is so good!
Just saw it again this weekend. A wonderful gem of a movie.
Oh i haven't seen that movie yet. I really should. I've heard only good stuff about it
YES
One of my favorite horror movies once I got past the childish urge to make a pun and scream “Yeaaaaaaaaaaah!” every time David Caruso was on screen.
I think the issue is with Chris Rock writing, we all expected something unique. And it turned out to be a totally ordinary totally average horror sequel
Exactly, they sell it as the "serious" Saw when there's multiple entries more mature than this one
Pretty much. They advertised this thing as a reboot that would reinvigorate the series etc... and it was just another Saw movie that really didnt do anything different than the others.
I still remember when Chris Rock hosted the Oscars the year Saw came out he asked normal people at a movie theater what their favorite movie of the year was. One guy said Saw. And Chris Rock seemed confused/intrigued by that answer. I was hyped because I agreed with the guy. (I was also like 13) I like to think the wheels have been spinning since then, and in that case... he got to make his movie and I think that's neat. I liked it for what it was and I was happy to feel like I was back in the world of those first few movies I loved so much.
I enjoyed it when I first watched, I've always enjoyed the franchise, I like them as fun movies. And I saw Spiral with two close friends, and I still like what it brings to the franchise, I just think it needs more updates moving forward
The only Saw movie I never liked was the one where half of it is doing brain surgery on Jigsaw.
I can handle cartoon violence all day. Even if it's applied to the human blood-sacs they throw into horror movies. But I tap the hell out at realistic depictions of surgery.
While I haven't seen Spiral yet, I love what you said about The Batman. I loved the scene of him realizing how powerful hope can be, as well as fear.
The one thing I will give the Saw sequels credit for is continuing the stories of people like, Hoffman, Gordon etc throughout the film and not just replacing the cast each time.
Gordon wanting to continue John's work made no sense
@@anubusx none at all. I'd figured he want to find his family and if anything take revenge on john.
@@anubusx rewatch Saw 1, and you will see there was plenty of hints that he would become a jigsaw apprentice, it just that they just fotgot about for the next five movies and then just brought it back in the 7
@@hidenname541
Why would he want to?
@@anubusx you can see that he admires jigsaw from the first time he hears about him
The closing line about the depth being as deep as the blood is fantastic. That would get an A+ for any essay.
It's perfectly fine for a Saw movie. The only thing that bugged me was how obvious the twist was. They needed to film the detective's 'death' similarly to the other victims. Hell, just write in that he killed a lookalike it's the Saw universe.
I feel like I'm the only one who didn't get the "obvious" twist that the new partner was the actual killer.
I actually liked it a lot. I like the hints it gives that schenk doesn't actually care about justice in the police system, rather revenge against those who had wronged him. I know the bit where zeke and schenk pour substances into an addicts wound is divisive and often called a plot hole but honestly I see it a key character moment for both. For all of the talk Schenk makes about police reform and stopping corrupt cops, he is willing to do the same actions against the addict. the only difference being that the addict had committed a crime, Schenk's father and the victims he cites did not.
In a way it shows that Schenk doesn't actually care about all police brutality victims. he cares about the ones who hadn't committed a crime. A mentality that a lot of people discussing this issue has. Its always a talking point that X victim was actually a big bad criminal, with an underlying implication that they deserved it because of the crimes they committed in the past.
Personally I think both Zeke and Schenk are very fascinating characters that are a bit limited by the writing and would love to see a new spiral that expands both.
George Loyd is not victim nor a hero
@@whiteeye3453 damn funny that i never mentioned him. but if we are really doing this, consider the following: committing a crime in the past or even the present does not mean a cop can put justice in their own hands when the suspect isn't in a position to threaten the police. George Floyd is certainly no hero, but he is a victim who should have been able to protest his innocence in the court of law. hope this helps!
Great analysis. We live in a warped time (or maybe it's been like this forever) where former or reformed criminals are considered unworth of their humanity or protection. The movie definitely tapped into that aspect but in a nuanced and subtle way.
@@Polygonyall exept he comitet crime of fake money
@@Polygonyall exept j don't belive that everyone deserve innocence and safty after what they did what about dictators such as hitrel or stalin do they deserve protest their innicence even thought they didn't have any ?
Before I watch my short answer is it's complicated. As a fan I was looking forward to anything new with the Saw franchise. But this was worse than just a paint by numbers story. What killed it for me was the fact that the twist was not only predictable, but it doesn't really feel like its leading anywhere exciting.
After the video: I'll admit that Zeke (though being kind of goofy) can actually be a good character given that he is compelled to uphold the law despite everything its cost him. And I love how you saw the common themes The Batman and Spiral have given that both villains seek to stop corruption in similar ways. Though I never thought to consider The Batman as better version of Spiral minus the excess of blood and gore.
Exactly. That plot twist was genuinely so obvious and you could see it coming fron miles away
@@iusedtowrite6667 agreed.
seeing twists coming can be fun if there's hints hidden that are obvious in hindsight, but this story wasn't fun or interesting enough to make that aspect a positive here
spiral to me is like the parody of batmans logic "if i kill one person i will immiedatly become a eriall illing monster with no morals" and spiral did that so his response is brutal sadism and hypocrisy.
and that coming from me who already dosent like batmans logic that one tragic ill is all it takes to send superheros into devils its also insulting to real life cops and police like commionisser gordon implying "your just as bad the joker"
A page out of the “book of Saw” and the downward spiral into chaos that happens from trauma and abuse (personal and institutional. That’s pretty much exactly how I interpreted it. None of the villains had a point and the fact that so many people interpret them as anti-heroes is a good bit of meta commentary, similar to how many people got the exact wrong message from Fight Club.
that what drove me nuts the writers of saw portraying kramer as if he was anything but a monster when he was openly hypocritical many times about putting innocent people in harms way as part of the test of guilty people.
at least AFTER kramer died they were willingly to actually show the hypocritical erial illers as what they were people looking for excuses to ill.
There’s no better way to start the week than with one of Ryan’s videos, thanks for the great video Ryan!
The Saw series has been in a downward spiral, but I liked your final connections to The Batman (2022).
I really like how the traps in spiral seem to be escapable on the surface but are really just killing machines that torture a person before their inevitable demise. The biggest problem with this film is that I'm pretty sure a sequel was intended to be made but it's never a guarantee that a sequel will happen so we just have a story with a bunch of unanswered questions and story threads that go nowhere.
So it's no different than any Saw movie then. Bunch of torture porn loosely connected by bad plot contrivances and retcons.
That's basically the premise they used for Hoffman. Which started as early as Saw 2. This really isn't anything new
@@CoOlKyUbI96 I meant that it was unclear to the audience. Amanda's traps were very clearly inescapable and you'd have to actually do what was said to find out you were just gonna die. These traps were impossible even if you played by "the rules". Also I'm pretty sure Hoffman's traps were just following Kramer's plans he made before he died except for the one that was for his sister's killer and when he went on a murder spree but I don't recall him using traps to do that.
U mean like the one where the dirty cop's in the finger trap? He could easily beat the trap by standing up
@@cooperminion825 wouldn't he still be electrocuted by the water?
Glad to see plenty of comments calling out betterhelp
PLEASE reconsider the BetterHelp sponsorship - they do not treat the therapists on their platform very well at all, and they also don't really deal with any issues beyond "mild" even though their ads suggest they offer on-call support during panic attacks and other crises. Thank you 🙏
Although the "twist" sucked. The only good twist was the first one. This film was really fun. Predictable but alot of fun. And I fully support Chris Rock going for more serious roles. I think he is perfect for it.
The twist in 2 was solid
Nah sorry but rock is type cast material. Most people wont ever take him seriously and it doesnt help hes trying to be funny in this movie.
SAW is far from considered a serious movie though. So it's a strange choice to choose a SAW movie as the look at me I do serious movies now movie
@@kingsarues1586 maybe not in retrospect, but when it released I was like 14 or 15 so it felt pretty serious. And obviously it got more ridiculous as the sequals went on. I think if they just stopped at 1, it would be more of a horror classic than it already is despite the ridiculous franchising.
The ending is one of the most suspend your disbelief ridiculous thing I've ever seen, the cops HAD to have been lobotomized to buy that whole set up
I feel the next Saw movie should be like a Paul Schrader script, something that delves into a character’s head who’s connected to the new Jigsaw game
Are we cool with Better Help sponsorships now despite the fact they don’t offer actual therapists and there’s no guarantee you’re going to get their ‘better’ help..?
Honestly I just watched it last night and kinda enjoyed it tbh just felt like there was meant to be slightly more to it and the killer was so obvious I assumed the twist would be he was helping angie untill she died (like I assumed she was dirty and was previously "reformed" through a jigsaw trap and was trying to reform the department by carrying on jigsaws legacy)
Oooo that's interesting
That would’ve been a good route.
I liked it honestly, I enjoyed the voice of the killer being different, the traps were also pretty unique since this killer wasn't some genius architect and I think it's a good reboot.
I wasn't a huge fan of the voice change but considering he's a copycat killer and basically everyone from the Kramer crew is dead or not acknowledged at all in this movie, it makes since so it didn't upset me
As usual, great video, Ryan! I agree, there was definitely potential in Spiral to explore the hypocrisy of Kramer's legacy. Interesting that you picked up on the hybrid Rigg-Mathews connection, Rigg is why I thought Saw 4 was pretty cool. You could really tell Chris Rock went full tilt for this, regardless of how it ended up appearing.
My biggest gripe with Jigsaw & Spiral was that they introduced new Saw characters into the universe, but there were so many from previous films whose fates were never revealed. Eric’s son from Saw II, Jeff’s daughter from Saw IV, the mother & son from the end of Saw VI, etc. What would have made for a much more interesting spinoff in the Saw universe would be to bring in those already established characters and let the fans know where they are now. Did some of them carry on Jigsaw’s legacy? Are others resentful towards John Kramer, who’s been dead for years, while people like Dr. Gordon are continuing the games? This franchise is 9 entries deep with another on the way, but there’s so much that could be done with characters who are already established.
The issue there lies with the fact thay non of the mentioned characters so to speak played a role in the bigger picture and were just used a motivations for our main character to continue through the traps and saw 2 is a perfect example. The entire time Eric is doing everything to get his son out of the trap even though the game has actually already ended and if Eric listened to kramer he would have found his son, Eric's son didn't actually matter so to speak in the end of the film, more so how he was used to expose Eric's flaws and the extent that kramer was willing to go too, same applies to the mother and son, they were innocent, if not victims in saw VI and were used to punish the main guy, they weren't important.
I really hope that they continue the Book of Saw. Not Spiral, per say, but the Book of Saw because I really like the composition of Spiral and applying John Kramer as a cautionary tale or an inspiration.
This was an interesting depiction of real life issues and I hope they have the censored trap on the blu ray.
Come for the ‘Saw’ video essay, stay for the excellent analysis of ‘The Batman’
Im honest, the "big twist" at the end, was one of the lamest "surprise, i was the bad guy the whole time" twists i've ever seen in a movie
I always thought Act 2 would have been interesting if Schenk is kidnapped and it's a race against the clock to save him. The trap is legit and damages Schenk's body, but Zeke manages to save him in the nick of time. Regardless, Schenk is left hospital ridden. That would make the reveal at the end better, since he really did seem like a red herring.
I agree that this is one of the closest in tone to the original Saw's tone of a police thriller. I think it is better to have the series go into copycats using Jigsaw's image and legacy for their own twisted philosophy instead of adding on to the convoluted chain of John Kramer committing a murder that we just didn't know about. Like do we really need another story trying to milk Tobin Bell for movies that keep overcomplicating his story?
I don’t know, I actually really enjoyed this movie. It was a nice break to have a Saw related movie that wasn’t all about the increasingly elaborate traps. I enjoyed this more than any of the later Saw movies, Chris Rock was a really pleasant surprise too.
I want more Saw films like this. Not necessarily with Chris Rock, but give me more stories about how the real Jigsaw influenced the world around him. Give me a movie about two different cuts of Jigsaw who have conflicting views of what his reasons/methods really were and they are in a battle to "save" a town this causing more escalation from both until things boil over. Give me a movie about a city coulcil of a small town with a perverted take on Jigsaw's methods that just use it as an excuse to kill those they don't like to make the town a "better" place (yes I know this is a exactly like Hot Fuzz but I still think it could be done differently enough to stand on it's own, maybe). Give me a film about a new teen in school (Bill) and he seems to be protective of the kids who get picked on, almost starting a fight his first day defending one of them(Tim), whom he them makes good friends with. The other kid is struggling to fit in also being new. The bullies start getting killed in really demented ways, almost like they are being tested. Bill, having had altercations with the bullies is the prime suspect but he denies doing it (even though some circumstantial evidence points to him) he states that he doesn't know if the other kid is worth standing up for with everything happening or if he should still do it to protect himself (I imagine the film with a lot of internal dialogue from him, being the POV character). Of course there will be red herrings to mix things up. Once everything falls into place and everyone "realizes" Tim is the killer WE find out that it was Bill all along, and he was playing Tim from the beginning. He then sets Tim up in a test that Tim is sure to fail, this making it look like suicide because he knew he had been "caught". All the internal dialogue will be reframed to him being unsure of Tim, and wary of what Tim is going to do, not because Tim was the killer, but because he needed Tim to do certain things for the plan to play out the way it did. He then mentions how Tim is not a good person, bringing up a small "bad thing" (a porn addiction or he smokes weed occasionally) that he uses to justify Tim taking responsibility for everything this showing how messed up he really is, while he already starts musing over who neesa to be punoshes next, looking at a teacher amd asking himswld if its too soon to start again.
I really enjoyed Spiral, but I'm also absolutely obsessed with the Saw movies and lore. I thought it was super fun to see a take on the same concept with new and mostly unrelated lore.
I think the concept was way better than the script could allow it to be. IF there is a sequel in the same universe where Zeke chases 's William while he goes Law Abiding Citizen on the town or another town throughout the cat and mouse chase with his same philosophy it could be a much more fun ride
When I was growing up and first getting into horror, it was during that little "torture porn" era. In fact I actually don't like supernatural horror at all. As such I have some pretty strange choices when it comes to the whole horror comfort food concept you've brought up before. Saw 1 and 2 for example. So every time a new Saw comes out, I feel like I have to see it, despite how soulless the franchise became. Given the retrospective of seeing them all, I'd say the two biggest mistakes all the sequels make is this, number 1, the ever growing over emphasis and over complexity of the traps. Number 2, the fact that a "unpredictable" twist at the end became obligatory. This is because it's essentially what made the first so legendary, but attempting to reproduce that everytime made the whole series a mess. I mean, at this point, half of any entry in the franchise is flash backs cause they killed jigsaw off way too early to keep making them. Lol
Too bad Chris Rock didn't act like this character when Will Smith pulled up on him he might had laid him out 😵😭
Killer: "Hello, Ryan. One of the 13 Ray-Con ear buds contains the code that releases the Spiral trap. You have a minute to..."
Ryan: "HOYEVER."
Killer: "Once again, well played."
So are we accepting Better Help as actual therapy now? Despite them not hiring any therapists with qualifications that they actually verify?
I truly enjoyed it. The characters were the best in any of the previous films, since we learend about Jigsaw/John Kramer. It also got me more excited for the potential future of the franchise, after being burned out on a 4 film arc about Detective Hoffman, retconning and rewriting the past to accommodate the present, and a declining quality due to the repetitive nature with nothing new added.
There were many things that worked for it, mainly the fact it shows that John Kramer's legacy has indeed lived on, and can live on within the world of Saw, without constantly needing to inject him into the story. We know his history, there is nothing that needs to be added, or shown that would give any revelation we cannot already perceive.
Shnek using Jigsaw's methods is very smart, when you consider that Kramer was the only known suspect, and the others were discovered too late (Hoffman), never known about (Dr. Gordon and his crew), got away with it as far as we know, (Logan), or dead (Amanda). Shnek is both an interesting blend of Kramer's philosphy where a choice is to be given, and the other's skewed view where the game has to he rigged. This attitude Kramer had, is what allowed him to get away with it and go as long as he had. But with Tapp catching up to him twice, he knew his time was running thin, and was only slowed by his cancer. The rest, Amanda to Shnek, failed and were discovered because of either their narcissistic take on Kramer's M.O (Amanda, Logan, Shnek) or ego and hubris (Hoffman). It shows that there can never be another Jigsaw, whereas legacy films like Scream, show that (regardless of personal feelings we have on the writing or characters) another Ghostface will be as impactful as the original, but never surpassing.
Giving the film a more procedural structure, mirrors the first film's attempt and splicing in a detective story into a horror story about what freedom's price is and if you can pay it or show that you are truly weak, and accept your fate.
The first 4 Saw films presented a question:
Who is this person and how are they getting away with this?
Holy shit, he is nearly beaten to death and the cops are after him, how is this going to end?
With Jigsaw dead, and Amanda dead, but Matthews seemingly free, what is next?
Holy shit, Hoffman is the new heir, how will he get away with this?
Each question built the drive and want for a continuation. With Saw V, the question became:
Wow! Hoffman was discovered but got away with it, and killed the only one who knew, how is he going to get away with it again? And then that question was asked in a different manner with the next entry. And then answered withing the supposed final installment, but that felt more like a repeating the process of Saw V, but with Hoffman found out about. Yes the question it asked was, "Who will be the new Jigsaw?" But with the quality and interest of the series waining, it felt it did not matter and that we would not get one.
With Jigsaw, we were asked a new question, that felt as if the answer was already given to us;
How many times are we just going to get a new Jigsaw heir, that deviates from Kramer's teachings?
Spiral, asked an entirely new question;
Shnek is definitely being hunted down by Zeke and the rest of the force, his face is known and will most likely be caught up to by end of day... but how many other people in the world, who never met or worked with, or were tutored by John Kramer, are influenced to dispatch justice out, when the system does not?
And that is why, The Book of Saw, is such an amazing subtitle and concept. John Kramer's work as Jigsaw has been taken note of by everyone, for better or worse. His followers praise him and hold his legacy in regards of doing what needed to be, while not participating themselves (Eleanor from Jigsaw). His imitators (Shnek), showing the public that there are people out there willing to carry on the Jigsaw killings and use the moniker, should be striking fear into the guilty and corrupt, that they could be next.
In this universe, living in a post-Jigsaw world, is very similar to the way that young women who dreamed of moving to Los Angeles, to become the next Hollywood bombshell, were both dissuaded and encouraged to attempt after the murder of Elizabeth Short, who would later be dubbed The Black Dahlia.
I personally hope that they continue with this anthology style of storytelling for the Saw franchise moving forward. One off stories, that are continuing the legacy of John Kramer.
Jigsaw's philosophy attracted messed up and evil people because his philosophy was messed up and evil. Drives me nuts when people try and paint him as an anti hero. He's straight up a villain. The Emperor and Darth Vader thought they were helping the galaxy in Star Wars too lol
I have no idea - I gave up the franchise after Saw 3. By then the series had turned into misery-porn as far as I'm concerned. I get truly worried when fans tell me the sequels got worse after that.
I think the first Saw was a perfect thriller with a gory twist. It's my favorite saw movie and frankly the only one worth watching. While some of the later movies delve into the backstory, I kinda liked the idea of a puppet master that simply does it to play god.
4 was pretty good at what it was. 5 was bad. 6 was OK. 7 was a movie. Don't remember the reboot at all. Spiral was kinda fine.
@@dizzydial8081 2 was even better
I'd argue 3 is definitely the goriest, I don't think the franchise ever really topped itself in that regard following on from there (with the possible exception of the autopsy scene in the opening of IV). IMO IV and V are kind of repetitive and forgettable but necessary if you want to follow the overall story, VI is incredibly underrated, 3D (aka 7) is the worst in the franchise, Jigsaw is a lot better than people give it credit for, Spiral is sort of ok-ish in its own right but poor as a Saw movie (none of the new characters are very interesting, the plot is very paint-by-numbers, the twist can be seen a mile off and, spinoff or no spinoff, no Tobin Bell is absolutely unforgiveable), and X is the best in the entire franchise, even better than the first one. For me the overall ranking is probably X, Saw, II, VI, III and Jigsaw for the good ones and IV, V, Spiral and 3D for the mediocre/poor ones.
Ryan's heart of gold and optimism seeks to flatter as best as he can the movie Spiral. Hewyeever Spiral is a completely unredeemable desperate effort for Chris Rock to diversify his portfolio into a perfect demonstration of his present but wildly underdeveloped ability as a serious actor. The poetic injustice is that this disaster is a jigsaw trap destined to forever doom Rock's career outside comedy.
Really enjoying this reminder that I love it when the Batman franchise dips its toes into horror. I'm also rather happy to see this return to the Saw franchise.
I love how we secretly also got a baby disection of the batman by Ryan at the back half of this video haha. Great Video man.
I personally love the Saw series (Saw 2 is my favourite), This film was also the first one I got to see in theaters, I honestly just thought it was boring and personally I think Boring is the worst thing a Saw movie can be. I thought the basic idea was good but the actual traps were uninspired and boring to watch, and the villian twist was so shockingly obvious that I would have preferred if we the audience just knew from the begining.
First time ever commenting on this channel even though I love it very much. As someone who enjoys the saw franchise entirely (my favourite is actually 7 even though it’s not the best, it just feels nostalgiac and fun), Spiral felt really fresh and new for the series and I really enjoyed it. It’s a nice return to practical effects and tension. Thank you for covering it!!
I didn't finish reading the title and got excited someone was finally showing som love to the movie based on the Junji Ito story
I think my biggest problem was it was so dull. They brought back the best of the directors and it's well made but Fincher they were not. Also, Rock is actively bad in it.
As soon as William asked to borrow Rocks cell phone i instantly called him out as the killer there and then. I hope SAW X will show more mystery IF it isn't a prequel to the other saw movies...
I genuinely love the original Saw and honestly I really loved Spiral. I’d probably put it as my second or third favorite in the franchise.
This film was a really pleasant surprise for me; I wouldn’t call it “the best Saw film”, but I think it competes with the original for “best film in the Saw franchise”, if you get the distinction.
Not perfect at all, but charmingly flawed.
Funny thing is the skin with the partner's tattoo I sniffed out as a fake because of the paint that was found in the box. I don't think it was intentional but I definitely said "Oh, the paint. This tattoo must be a fake."
That clip of Somerset and Mills asleep on the couch is top tier always. Also, very clearly helped to illustrate the point! 💓
I liked Spiral. It didn't reinvent the wheel, but I liked watching it in theaters.
Bro, I binge watch your videos nonstop and every time you say "however" I attempt (and fail) to parrot your accent. As an Australian, It's IMPOSSIBLE.
Great analysis as always, although I stopped watching the ‘Saw’ movies after the second failed to recapture the magic of the first. Not a modern horror, but I’d love to see you cover an older classic, ‘The Legend of Hell House’.
Fun fact, SAW franchise wouldn't exist without Mad Max, (SPOILERS COMING), in first MM movie, at the end where Max caughts the one of the killers who killed his wife and child, Max handcuffes killer to the car that's leaking gasoline, Max gives killer a special saw that can cut the handcuffes, but it takes too long to cut it, so, much more easier and FASTER way to get himself free, killer needs to cut off his leg.
This was referenced in first SAW movie, where first trap was similiar like how it was in Mad Max.
As a huge saw fan this movie was everything I wanted after Jigsaw. The return to the editing and color grading of the original movies made me really happy.
I always respected Spiral for trying to do something new with the series instead of just repeating Saw 2 for the nth time (I love the whole series but I could not tell you the difference between Saw 4, 5, and 6) I'm still holding out hope for a Spiral 2, I'd really love to see what they do with Zeke and William going forward.
I was pleasantly surprised by this movie. The traps were great, but it was Chris Rock that was the best part. Plus, this makes two Leathal Weapon actors in the SAW universe.
Next is Danny devito 😈😈
The traps were great ??????? Did we watch the same movie
@@hidenname541 I thought they were good too
@@Gundam_JAY the first trap was okay but about as credible as the first trap in Saw 7 + no way you survive more than 5 seconds whitout your lower jaw
All the other traps were awful except the finger trap but i personally hate it when the subject does everything he supposed to and still dies
@@hidenname541 The entire franchise is built on the shakiest moral ground possible.
"I didn't slap Chris Rock, I put him in a situation where he could chose to be slapped or not!" - Jigsaw, probably
Came here for the Spiral review, got a very much appreciated Batman review! I really liked Batman and seeing you say your opinions on it for a few minutes was such a pleasant surprise.
Funny how you bring up the Batman (even though I didn't care for the recent one, so underwealming) I always felt like the Saw films were essentially Batman movies without Batman, just Batman rogues
1. Cops are either crooked or inept
2. City is dingy and crourrupt to the core
3. Jigsaw is like a combo of Riddler (traps and mindgames), Professor Pyg (the pig mask and surgical tools) and Ventriloquist (The Billy Doll)
I wanted to like this movie - when I was working security, they were filming at this old, historic hospital I was working at overnights. It was so creepy, but absolutely breathtakingly gorgeous.
I waited 2 years to see this "Chris Rock horror movie" to come out and THIS is what we got -_-
I liked this movie, the villain was underwhelming but the flow was subtle and fitting for a copycat killer and it seemed like a cop drama.
Chris Rock has that weird scowl of a look on his face. It's a kind of weird look he has, almost don't look like him. Bizarre as he's a comedian and done comedy his whole career, then "BOOM!", he's a cop in a serious horror movie as the main character. He really did show that he had range and can act in any movie he likes. Yes this was the tamest of any of the saw movies. But it was pretty good. It had much more money behind it, and more star power. The first kill was the best. And they did alright with carrying on the series , and in the end was completely obvious who the killer was. That's what really sucked about the movie
I really liked it, but it felt like it suffered from edits. Whether they came from studio notes, rating chasing, test audiences or any of the other silly reason a film goes under the knife, Spiral felt like someone came in and just took heaping spoonfuls of narrative from it.
Aside from 6, I think it's the one I enjoyed the most since the 4th up to Jigsaw.
I almost prefer your opinion to my own. Great video as always. Thank you, Ryan!
PMI had a great idea that would've made the ending so much better; reveal that Chris Rock's character knew the whole time who the killer was.
Go check out their video on it; it's really better than what we got.
I get the impression that Spiral stuck to surface level on some of its points so that a sequel could be made
Please Please please do a video on Garth Merenge's Dark Place. I thought I imagined that show and you brought everything flooding back by mentioning it.
This was my first movie in theatres post lockdown and I did enjoy it. I thought the twist however was kinda dumb
Jigsaw’s 100% a murderer under the “felony murder doctrine”.
If someone dies (even by accident) when you’re committing a felony, you’re guilty of first-degree murder. Saw takes place in NJ, which follows this law, and every trap revolves around at least one kidnapping.
I liked it quite a bit. I had hoped we'd get a sequel to this one.
It sucked hard im pretty it killed the franchise
Nah nah nah, it was announced about a week ago that Saw 10 will hit theatres in October 2023. Sorry fellas.
@@hidenname541 they already announced saw 10 next October so no, it didn't kill the franchise at all.
my favorite part is the “oh chris is young in this flashback? put him in a backwards hat
this is more of a comedy than anything. Watched this the other night and laughed every time Chris Rock delivered a line. It was so strangely offputting.
Love your videos my guy. Your divulging of theme and analysis is always so interesting.
I have never supported you financially, so I know that my opinion on this doesn't (and one could argue shouldn't) hold as much weight. Still, BetterHelp is a TERRIBLE and unethical company. It is not hard to find a significant amount of information on how they are not to be trusted, particularly in a field that is already so rife with abuse.
There is a lot to discuss about creators' obligation to research the brands they accept money from. I'm not going to pretend I don't have a price, especially if I might be in a position where saying no has a severe consequence. I say all this to suggest that if you are someone who has struggled with mental health issues in the past, as you say you are (which there is no shame in, and I commend you sincerely for normalizing it here in your video) that you discontinue taking money from them.
I wish you the best of luck with your channel and that it will continue to grow.
Yeah, Angie is a person who is uncomfortably caught in the middle of power struggle between equally unenviable positions, but so is Marcus. They both have had to do a lot of shutting up in order to make it professionally and not invoke retribution from those around them tasked with "upholding" and enforcing the law. They're just older Zekes who shut up long enough to advance up the organizational ladder. And we see what happened to Zeke and his concept of choosing what's right when he still was morally pure; now he's breaking people's legs and is still somehow the most honest cop in his precinct.
I never laughed so hard watching a horror movie as much as I laughed at this one.
This was a dark comedy not a horror movie.
Thank you! I laughed so many times watching it, and I wasn’t sure if it was actually supposed to be a dark comedy, or if the writing was just that odd. Some of the lines were just read in a super funny way.
Didn’t expect to hear a Darkplace reference in a review of a Saw movie.
A horror movie with a dodge ball player as protagonist.
My only issue with this film is the premise. Literally EVERY saw film has cops as the main people being targeted or involved. I don’t know why this film acts like it’s some brand new angle to approach the franchise from. I do find the movie enjoyable though for what it is
Q:Was Chris Rock's SAW Reboot Really That Bad?
A: yes it was
I think what made Spiral unique as far as Saw films go was that it felt like its own entity, i mean like it dwelled into a brand new territory with the copycat going after corrupt cops, whereas Kramer went after a whole variety of people. Spiral though a stand alone, you could tell the Saw DNA is within it, while acting as its own narrative and obviously different antagonist who otherwise has nothing to do with either Kramer or Hoffman for that matter. After seeing Saw X which seen return of Kramer, really makes me wonder what is next which the only logical way the series can progress A. A direct sequel to Jigsaw B. A direct sequel to Spiral C. Another prequel set between either 1 and 2 or between 2 and 3 D. Another stand alone because i can really imagine Kramers legacy has inspired many copycats including William
I actually like that the new killer wasnt a psycho path... just a regular person. It proves anyone can be pushed to the limit if pushed a certain way. I know it can be a concicered a bad message but the realism of the film is what i like.
I stopped watching this channel for a little bit when I remembered his 28 days later video. I'm glad he's still making content😭!!
hey man, happy to see this vid from you, but PLEASE look into how awful betterhelp actually are. youtubers rly need to stop taking sponsorships from them, it's just irresponsible
I’m trying desperately to remember which horror UA-camr suggested it, but I agreed with them that making the “twist” that Chris Rock actually catches the copycat would have been a better ending. Also I enjoyed the piss yellow filter they used to give it a unique yet similar visual feel. Oh, and I loved Chris Rock’s scene chewing. I found it immensely entertaining.
Could you do tourist trap 1979?
Watching this i realized that this movie is actually so good looking. All the contrasts and angles, i love the light at 11:11 - 11:13 so much
Honestly, never understood the thought process behind this movie's conception. They literally made a Saw spin-off, 4 years after a failed "reboot" that starred both Chris Rock and Samuel L Jackson. That's something I'd joke about with my friends.
The funniest thing about this movie is that every single victim decides that yes, I'm going to do this terrible thing that will get me out of this trap and it's going to motherfuck-suck but I want to live! And then they die all anyway.
I remember being turned off when the movie first came out because I thought the whole thing was exploitative and was going to get raked over the coals for talking about police corruption in the midst of all the rioting. Seeing how hard Chris Rock went to bat for this film and the performance he gave, I'm kinda sad I never got into it.
Poor, poor exploited cops. lmfao.
By exploitative, do you mean it's taking advantage of the situation to turn a profit?
@@OneAndZer0 Mhm
It's another solid guilty pleasure for the SAW canon that is somewhat tainted by the fact that the ingredients were there for something legitimately great. I've described the movie's shortcomings as basically Rock's ambition rubbing up against the constraints of Darren Lynn Bousman's storytelling capabilities