Reading the comments is exhausting due to all the price-related whining. I think “low end” was a poor choice of words but let’s face it, 2k for a decent full suspension trail bike is a bargain.
In my opinion normal riders don't need high end bikes. A good geometry, wide bars and strong brakes are important. Most 2000 - 3000 € bikes are very good bikes. Only the brakes are sometimes not as good. But you can upgrade those pretty easily and without going bankrupt. 😉
Well, the reality is you can start with a brand new hardtail MTB for $500 (my wife got one of those ones), for many people might be enough. However, if you already know how to jump and you are serious on riding, $2,000 looks like a reasonable price for a product (frame and components) that will minimise the risk of accidents due to components failure. And the $5,000 is for profesional racers that need anything to gain 1 second in a race, or the “dentist rider” with low skills that needs to show up his/her money.
@@WorkLessRideMore I built up an enduro beast on a 2015 carbon frame (27,5"). I swapped the skinny wheels to proper downhill wheels and the bike is around 2000€. The new stumpy has the same weight with 29er wheels, which I didn't like. And the price difference is 4500€.
My 61 year old wife recently decided she wanted to ride MTB with me so I bought a used hard tail to see if she liked it. Since she did I told her I wanted her to have a full suspension bike, I ride a Trek Fuel EX (trail bike)so I wanted to get her a Trek Top Fuel(XC bike) but she refused to let me spend $3000 on a bike for her. After a bunch of research I got her a Polygon Siskiu D7 and that $1199 bike performs flawlessly…I changed some touch points and put a shorter dropper on it but I’m thoroughly impressed with that bike.
Lots of comments on the price, but for new full suss in a major brand, $2k seems where it starts to me. Calling it "low end" is maybe misleading, since if lowest budget was really the goal, you'd buy a used hardtail
Alloy is a blend of a metal with another element. Steels are alloys. Cheaply made 12 speed Sram SX is not worth the trouble. Low spec with SX is a no spec for me. I'm happy with Shimano 10 or 11 speed Deore for a "budget" price point.
Used bikes market is so diverse and there's a lot of choice. I'd say rather than buying entry/mid level new, buy a high-end used. I recently did just that by getting a KTM scarp prime for 1700- (6900- when new). Just make sure, you get one in good order/properly serviced.
Purchased a stumpjumper alloy last year thinking I’d only ride with my kids and maybe once or twice a year at the bike park. Instead I got obsessed with the sport and started upgrading. Start off with just upgrading from sx to gx rear mech. Now have a z1 fork, float x factory shock, code rsc and other small mods. All purchased on sale for a fraction of the price of a similar spec bike.
Same bought one about a month ago, and now Thousands $$ later its a beast of a bike, cheaper than S-works, but deep into the high-end cost now. I ride well and fast enough that I started finding the limits of the stock brakes and suspension fairly quickly. So with full Rock Shox Ultimate setup front and rear, Hayes Dominion brakes, Shorter 5dev cranks... I swapped to the 5dev oval chainring too. Upgraded to the AXS GX eagle upgrade kit to remove the NX shifter. At this point I have almost enough take off parts that are brand new to build a second bike for my kid, So I ordered Nobl carbon wheels with I9 hubs, because I wanted to try the Hydra hubs and carbon wheels. Now I can use the O.E. wheel set on the second bike. Sure its expensive, but I can literally tell and feel the difference on the trail, even riding slow. I agree that expensive components could be cheaper, but I will say you can notice the difference between the cheaper and expensive components
@@monstermini225nice mate. I’ll be do a wheel set in the next few months, I don’t think I’ll be going carbon though. Will be finishing off the full axs gx group set as well.
Buy what you can afford but make sure it’s fit for purpose! We’ve all seen the videos of brand new £500 bikes being ridden on the trails and they don’t last long! It’s not just components it’s durability as well, that 2k bike will have a rating! Buying secondhand is ok but a lot of people seem to want silly money for bikes these days because new bike prices are high and you don’t know if that secondhand bike is one ride away from snapping in half! I have quite high end stuff on my bikes(brakes and suspension) but I sell what comes on the bikes cheaper than what it is online and it’s brand new so quite few people have had some good deals out of me and I get some money back to put back into my bikes👍🏻
The Canyon Spectral AL 5 and AL 6 are both discounted at the moment on the Canyon website so I'd go for the AL 6 because it has Fox suspension, a Shimano Deore groupset and a DT Swiss wheelset
I just build a new bike from the frame up. I decided to go with an "Alloy" frame with middle of the road mechanical drivetrain and "Alloy wheels". Where I decide to spend more money is on the suspension and the brakes. No point in having great suspension that allows you to go fast if you do not have the ability to stop. I also utilized the used market to find almost new suspension at a heavy discount. Another great option if you want to have your cake and eat it to as they say. As far as my cockpit I typically go with "Alloy" bars because I have had carbon break in the past and don't really trust them now. Also, most people should be focused on getting the right stem length (match your stem to your offset) so I always buy a middle of the road stem for my cockpit. After you make the jump to higher end parts it's cheaper down the road to move those components over to a newer frame as long as you have maintained your high end parts. From my experience many riders pay for high end suspension and tend to not maintain it or even need all the adjustments that come with them. Most people I run into don't check their air pressure on their suspension or their tires. Quickest way to ruin your investment. Great video! Always love the content.
I think your take is spot on. Although I ride a lot of lift laps as a fat guy and I am really glad I caught some we are one carbon rims for $950 a couple months ago. I destroyed alloy wheels and these have taken bike park abuse all season and are still true. I spent more for the warranty and like you said, I can build the next bike already having my wheels.
One Junior racer I knew hated suspension setup- she'd ride a hardtail just to avoid it- so I set her bike up to suit. Nothing on the fork but a lockout, but shimmed and setup exactly for her weight and style. On the rear, Fox's tried and true RP3 went out to a specialty tuner, who patterned it for her own weight/style/ and specific frame and its dynamics- perfect. The whole package performed like a bike twice its cost, and she didn't have to fuss with the fiddly bits ever again!😁 Spend your money on quality tuning, not fancier parts...🙄
I think people are missing the point in low v high end here, this is more of a comparison between lower spec and higher spec of the same bike, which means they are more comparable. The title also does mention full sus, so it's not as if they have forgotten full sus exists, nowadays the real budget full sus is £1500, not the £1000 it was a few years ago, so this is actually an 'entry level' full sus, not saying its full budget but they never claimed it to be, this is a very fair comparison fo exactly what the video title suggests.
Middle Spec bike with upgrades to certain parts. Canyon Neuron CF8. (Carbon frame, aluminum wheels SLX Full drivetrain) Upgraded tl XTR Shifter, XT crankset, rear derailleur, cassette, oval chain ring, Fox Factory 36 Fork, Fox Factory Float X rear shock, One-UP Carbon bars, E-Thirteen 35mm Stem, Tubeless. Seems to fit my needs. I kinda wish at times I purchased the Spectral, but don't really push hard enough for a rowdy bike.
I just did a race on an alloy, rigid seatpost, tubes, cable actuated shifter (1000€) and my time from last year was basically the same with carbon, dropper, tubeless, di2 shifter (3000€). I wonder why I need those bling bling stuff, if they don't make me faster. :D
Super happy with the same exact Canyon Spectral (the 6th version) as I am with my Canyon Grizl 7 AL for gravel. It is more than enough for amateurs and is ages ahead of what I use to ride :D
The main problem is always that the spec you can afford is only a few hundred pounds less than the version you really want. Back in 2012 I had enough money for a Lapierre zesty 514 (£3200), but I ended up spending an extra £400 and getting the 714 version instead which was only slightly better.
So, basically, Owen's bike is the one you show visits on the hall of your house but never touches dirt and Anna's bike is the real one to get the job done.
I do preffer low spec, because I do not agree with the parts which are upped on a higher end bike. Transmissions dont realy mater, even NX can be fixed, what i realy care is in this order saddle, grips, rubber, wheels, brakes and a decent suspension at the end ( i have first a high end wheel maybe later a highish end fork) But the prices of the bike parts went massively up in the last 15 years
I had to make the desicion like 2 months ago and k went with the the al5 and Upgraded it with x01 Rs Lyrk ult 2.1 and super deluxe ult. and in conclousion i spent more them 4000 Swiss Fracs only bc i had to replace the drive train bc it was so unusable the bike mecanic said and the shimano mt400 freehub body has bent since two months of more or less aberrage to hard riding and i can say the cheaper the bike the more parts u need to upgrade. It is so a pricy thing and i wish i could have bought the cf9 like second hand and then upgrade it, and start on a GOOD base. So i wanna say: dont cheap out ur gonna get very bad surprises in return.!! Save more get more and better stuff.!
90% of riders will never outride the base model top end brand bikes. Most riders wouldn't even know about tyres pressures and setting their suspension. They take delivery of their bike and just ride it until it breaks. I'm not a pro rider so I usually buy a decent brand but the lower spec as I will not benefit from the performance of the higher spec parts.
I was ‘mountain biking’ on a Steyr Puch 3gear touring bike with chrome trimmings, narrow road tyres , white plastic saddle full mudguards, 40 years ago. £2000 is not ‘entry level’ by any stretch ! Thats what some families live on for a month….
There is a big difference in the forks and it is not the adjustments. It is the Debonaire air spring and the RC3 or even the RC2 damper. The lower spec fork has lesser internals. I have a Pike Select 150 and I have also ridden a Pike Ultimate. I don't feel that much of difference on the trails I usually ride, and i like the ability to do on the fly choices w open, trail, and lockout on the Select -turn-key.
I have the Spectral 5 al, like she has. But the reat shock mounting looks Different, mine looks like carbon one, also the canyon Sticker is in the center. A expensive bike makes you not better or skilled like a pro. 😎
What happened to the welds on the aluminum spectral. They look horrendous. Especially the ones around that seattube gusset and around the upper shock mount. That st gusset looks like somebody stuck on some sort of patch...🤢
Let's keep this simple, shall we? 1. Any complete drivetrain and brake package sold by Shimano and priced directly under 'XT' is all most riders will ever need. Avoid SRAM.... 2. Add that to whatever frame/fork/suspension package any of the 'major' makers sold as their third level bike of the model you wanted last year - maybe two years ago. 3. Find some bike snob whose 1st or second level major manufacturer wheel package was inadequate and offer him $150 for the set. Gathered up, professionally assembled, taxed, and out the door, this will cost much less than $2000 and be a better overall product. Run the wheels off of it, and happy trails!
@@floydblandston108 I watched some videos which suggested swapping out the jockey wheel on the lower end deore mech with a sealed bearing one from higher up the range and it changes the performance markedly!
#askgmbntech I snapped my chain out on the trail and removed a link to get it back together and to get myself back home. Does snapping the chain mean I should replace the whole chain or just keep running it
Well, MTB was always an expensive sport, but you didn't mention hargtails, they are cheaper and still can shred. I think, it's better to start with cheaper bikes and then when you understand, you can upgrade what you want.
For a new bike capable of riding Moab, north shore, bike parks, etc. safely, $2000 is low end in my book. You have to take into mind who the people are doing these reviews. They ride at a pretty high level on some pretty nasty stuff so to them $2000 is pretty much as low as they would think of going simply for personal safety. Personally I would not ride that front shock and rear shock long, if at all. I would not feel safe on rough fast trails. And I am a 71 yr old mid-level rider who does not do jumps or stupid drops. There are much cheaper bikes that can be a lot of fun on the right trails. Riding the Eight Miles of Hell trail out of Butte MT USA on a hard tail would only be for your pro riders with legs of a god and the ability to recover from massive physical abuse. Buy a bike that fits you budget, riding skill and trails in your area. I probably have $8000 in my bike because I can afford it and I know it will ride anything I throw at it. I admit it is a dentist bike but building it is my main hobby. I ride with a guy with a 25 yr old Rockhopper hard tail who schools me on the climbs. He is happy with his bike, I am happy with my bike. But I would never invite him to Moab or Butte to ride. We have fun on the local trails.
Interesting to hear. I am getting my bike upgraded from stock brakes to some better stuff, new softer compound tires, 160mm RockShox Yari, etc at this moment cause I'll be hitting the Moab (as well as Durango, CO and Angel Fire) for the first time in just a month and a half. Using a 2022 Polygon Siskiu T7. Rear shock already replaced with a new Ripmo (or Ripley) takeoff DVO Topaz, and a 4-piston rear caliper.
@@JoeIsCrazyWillman Cool! Moab will test you and your bike. I have been down there at least 10 times. I would suggest throwing on a pair of used tires for Moab. The slick rock eats tires and any tire will stick to it. If you have the money the Hope Tech 4 V4 brakes are incredible. That Yari will be a huge difference over the Recon. Oh and have good knee and elbow pads. Hopefully having them on will mean you never put them to the test. I crashed one year before I used pads. Got an infection in my arm from a scratch and almost lost it. Have fun.
@@GarthFlint-nc2vj I had a RockShox 35 Gold 150mm on it until just now. I have 2yr old Hans Dampf on it and ran out of sealant. Back tire was getting low on tread, so got new Hans Dampf in Addix Soft with a 2.3 rear and kept 2.6 front. I'm in Texas, so we have LOTS of rock everywhere here. The Addix Speedgrip has given me a great 2yrs, but I want that fresh grip for the various terrain between the three different zones, plus once I get back here. I have the Addix Soft Hans Dampf on my Chameleon and it rips 🤙🏻
@@GarthFlint-nc2vj yep, lots and lots of rocks and loose-over-hard. Washing out is always a concern with the fine dust and small sand-like rock all over the flat corners and even berms... Out in hill country, they even get that "moon dust" all over the rocks, and that can get slick even when dry!
Upgrading is a false economy. If you buy a cheaper bike then upgrade to the same spec of a higher end bike you'll spend significantly more and still be left with an overall lower end product. If you want a better bike buy used or sell your cheaper bike when you outgrow what it offers and buy a higher spec bike.
That's not that expensive. I know women who spend 1000 on a dress they wear one time. It's all realitive. Think of all the parts on that bike - fork, shock, wheels, ect - it adds up. For 2k you can get an incredible bike these days that will last for a long time. Sounds like you need to get a better job
Everything what's gone wrong with GMBN and cycling industry in general - 2k bikes are low-end now.... when customers coming to local bike shops think £300 is too much for a bike...
Would you folks be willing to produce a fully comprehensive "How to evaluate a second hand bike for purchase" video? I know I'd very much appreciate it, chances are some others would too. Really enjoy your vids, thank-you.
2000$ for a MTB is not low end these channels are the reason the bike industry is in the dumps and make the average person who just wants to ride and have fun are not doing so because they don’t have the luxury of buying a bike that they feel will make them fit in on the trail
@@ChunkyWalnutX yes I did the same and this is why I don’t really watch this channel they always push the high end bike stuff and think it’s ok to down play on mtbs that don’t cost 5k plus and I bet they don’t even pay for their own bikes all these bike brands send them bikes for free
I picture you writing this comment with one hand. The other is balled into a fist, which you’re angrily shaking in the air. The kind of content is hardly worth getting upset over.
My bike must be 1/6th of whatever qualifies as entry level assuming said bracket starts at $2,600 and my bike was $440 after tax. Hell, I bet the /clothes/ you're wearing cost more than my bike, your shoes more than my tires, your spokes more than my saddle. Don't be surprised if you've ever been called elitist.
2k really isn't that expensive when you price out what the components cost alone. It's still a lot of money but when you look at dirt bikes mountain biking isn't crazy expensive. That 2k bike is a good bike that you could ride for years with routine maintenance. It's like anything else good work isn't cheap and cheap work isn't good. Walmart bikes are a lot cheaper; in price and quality.
@@jckgoldnessWhy does nobody want to come join our fun and thinks everybody on two wheels is an elitist snob? *Sets a 4 digit pricetag as the first gate to keep*
Post a name brand trail bike that is full suspension, 160/160mm travel for less than $2k. I would honestly love to see it as it might get a couple friends into it. The trouble I think is $2k is the cliff. Anything below is almost a waste because a beginner will outgrow it if they flourish and regret not spending another $500 up front. Buying a used bike for a couple hundred is a better way to step into the game at low risk.
@@bbl69420 Where does 160mm travel come from? The lower end spectral only has 140mm rear travel and 150mm up front. It’s a good question you ask. In the UK you can get a Polygon in the sale for under £1k and I would argue that is an “entry level” bike. The Polygon Siskiu D5 is on sale at Blacks for £899 at the moment. It has everything you need to go trail riding as a beginner entering the sport. For £2-3k you can get a bike that will likely outperform most people riding it and I would say is more mid-range. My perspective is that riders and the industry is somehow convinced that £2k is the price tag to enter the sport and I disagree. 🙂
@@markbails9896 If I was buying a bike that could do it all I would go for 160/160 personally. The polygon's I looked up in USD were all $2k+ so that's def cool they can be got for much less in the UK. I think less so than the components, we have to be asking why frames are priced so high, especially aluminum frames.
@@bbl69420 yeah agree around 150-160 is a do-almost-anything bike. Like you I know people that would probably enjoy MTB but don’t want to / can’t spend 2k+ on a bike. A well looked after second hand is always a good choice as you say.
Yes $2000 is considered low end for a full suspension bike. If that price seems unreasonable hit up a brand like Polygon or it’s a great time to pick up a used bike and save
I will say that most Average Riders Bikes are ranging from 500$-1,500$ while above that pricing is for Dentists in my opinion, I'm an Average rider myself spending more will on result on marginal weight savings. Solution to that? =More Saddle Time i rekon
@@gunshipanropace2gunshipand119 Riding a $500 bike on the trails in my area would mean buying a new $500 bike for the next ride. It’s a false economy. Then again, if your trails consist of rolling terrain and low speed descents, a sub $1k bike might be just fine.
I'm sorry, low end £2000, it's just another show that's lost sight of reality, £2000 is a massive price for a bike, go watch Sam pilgrim and his outlook and having an epic day on a very budget friendly bike, you can tell this is just an advert
I'm not ashamed to be the owner of a walmart schwinn that i got on sale. Alienating people that want to ride sucks. I understand it takes money to build these bikes but.......
@@tomheater6149 so showing you bikes that are out of your price range is “alienating”? Maybe it’s time to grow up. At one point or another, all of us encounter things we want that are out of reach. It’s just a fact of life. Enjoy what you have and/or sock money away for something you truly want.
Not for full suspension or anything rated for real trail riding. At $400-700, you're getting mostly commuter hardtails with mountain bike tires or TERRIBLE full suspension bikes that have virtually no serviceable parts available for their wonky designs, so they're throwaway bikes, and if ridden on anything other than grass and gravel, they're gonna wear out quick and you'll be spending another $400-700 on another throwaway bike.... Or buy once cry once, as they say. You can get a reasonable Polygon Siskiu D6 for around $1200, or even better deal, the D7SE for $1400, and it's not only fully serviceable and comes with name brand everything almost, it's also in line with current geometries and sizing (boost axles, tapered head tubes, etc), so upgrading or fixing is a breeze. The only thing not is they use a type 40/41 derailleur hanger not a UDH. That's about it. 👌🏻 $1400 is way less than most people's tax returns here in the USA, and since I don't have kids, a house, or a business, getting all those deductions, it's just a smidge over.... So when I file my taxes, I can get a new lower end yet quality full suspension bike brand new if I want... Or save a couple year's of them for something extra nice.
Fyi, the CF9 doesn't have 2 cables. It's mech is wireless so it has 2 hoses (not cables) for the brakes. I'd have thought any self respecting mechanic would know the difference between a hose & a cable lol.
@@tracymcmanus550 then the bike shops you visit are wrong. It has fluid running through it. It is a hydraulic hose. If your shop mechanic orders a brake cable instead of a brake hose you will be disappointed.
@@45graham45 yes they know how to order correctly. The term goes back to before there were hydraulic brakes. It’s an industry wide used term just like clipless pedals. Cable brakes are still used although less common the higher up you go
Lot of complaints in the comments but guys you are not obliged to buy any bike at all if you don't want to. These guys are not instructing you to do anything, they are telling you about things...theres a big difference.
Reading the comments is exhausting due to all the price-related whining. I think “low end” was a poor choice of words but let’s face it, 2k for a decent full suspension trail bike is a bargain.
In my opinion normal riders don't need high end bikes. A good geometry, wide bars and strong brakes are important. Most 2000 - 3000 € bikes are very good bikes. Only the brakes are sometimes not as good. But you can upgrade those pretty easily and without going bankrupt. 😉
Stating 2.000 Pound Bikes are low-end is the reason, Mountain Biking is perceived as a sport for dentists.
2k is low end for a real bike.
Well, the reality is you can start with a brand new hardtail MTB for $500 (my wife got one of those ones), for many people might be enough. However, if you already know how to jump and you are serious on riding, $2,000 looks like a reasonable price for a product (frame and components) that will minimise the risk of accidents due to components failure. And the $5,000 is for profesional racers that need anything to gain 1 second in a race, or the “dentist rider” with low skills that needs to show up his/her money.
You are forgetting about the hardtails which can be much lower than 2k
@@WorkLessRideMore I built up an enduro beast on a 2015 carbon frame (27,5"). I swapped the skinny wheels to proper downhill wheels and the bike is around 2000€. The new stumpy has the same weight with 29er wheels, which I didn't like. And the price difference is 4500€.
@@rainerunsinn4808 or for people who don't drink or smoke spending £5,840 a year on 20 cigs a day @ £16 a pack.
My 61 year old wife recently decided she wanted to ride MTB with me so I bought a used hard tail to see if she liked it. Since she did I told her I wanted her to have a full suspension bike, I ride a Trek Fuel EX
(trail bike)so I wanted to get her a Trek Top Fuel(XC bike) but she refused to let me spend $3000 on a bike for her. After a bunch of research I got her a Polygon Siskiu D7 and that $1199 bike performs flawlessly…I changed some touch points and put a shorter dropper on it but I’m thoroughly impressed with that bike.
Low end bike is like 4 average salaries in my country :)
@@rustedskull7093 hahaha 2 years salaries. , in my country
Move to a better country.
@@tyarnold4088you've got problem? just don't have problem lol
t. that guy
@@tyarnold4088 Ah yes, priviliged man speaking.
Be careful what you wish for, these guys might take away your job one day.
That’s wild
3:08 As a mechanic you cannot follow up "really nice features" with internal cable routing :D:D
How to tell if somebody wrenches on their own ride: ask how they feel about internal cable routing
Lots of comments on the price, but for new full suss in a major brand, $2k seems where it starts to me. Calling it "low end" is maybe misleading, since if lowest budget was really the goal, you'd buy a used hardtail
Fuel and Stumpy are both in that ballpark. Siskiu is about 25% less.
@@tomsing98 Sisfkiu 7 is $2k
Alloy is a blend of a metal with another element. Steels are alloys.
Cheaply made 12 speed Sram SX is not worth the trouble. Low spec with SX is a no spec for me.
I'm happy with Shimano 10 or 11 speed Deore for a "budget" price point.
Used bikes market is so diverse and there's a lot of choice. I'd say rather than buying entry/mid level new, buy a high-end used. I recently did just that by getting a KTM scarp prime for 1700- (6900- when new). Just make sure, you get one in good order/properly serviced.
Purchased a stumpjumper alloy last year thinking I’d only ride with my kids and maybe once or twice a year at the bike park. Instead I got obsessed with the sport and started upgrading. Start off with just upgrading from sx to gx rear mech. Now have a z1 fork, float x factory shock, code rsc and other small mods. All purchased on sale for a fraction of the price of a similar spec bike.
Nice bro I have the stump jumper comp alloy and I love it aswell
Same bought one about a month ago, and now Thousands $$ later its a beast of a bike, cheaper than S-works, but deep into the high-end cost now. I ride well and fast enough that I started finding the limits of the stock brakes and suspension fairly quickly. So with full Rock Shox Ultimate setup front and rear, Hayes Dominion brakes, Shorter 5dev cranks... I swapped to the 5dev oval chainring too. Upgraded to the AXS GX eagle upgrade kit to remove the NX shifter.
At this point I have almost enough take off parts that are brand new to build a second bike for my kid, So I ordered Nobl carbon wheels with I9 hubs, because I wanted to try the Hydra hubs and carbon wheels. Now I can use the O.E. wheel set on the second bike.
Sure its expensive, but I can literally tell and feel the difference on the trail, even riding slow. I agree that expensive components could be cheaper, but I will say you can notice the difference between the cheaper and expensive components
@@monstermini225nice mate. I’ll be do a wheel set in the next few months, I don’t think I’ll be going carbon though. Will be finishing off the full axs gx group set as well.
Buy what you can afford but make sure it’s fit for purpose! We’ve all seen the videos of brand new £500 bikes being ridden on the trails and they don’t last long! It’s not just components it’s durability as well, that 2k bike will have a rating! Buying secondhand is ok but a lot of people seem to want silly money for bikes these days because new bike prices are high and you don’t know if that secondhand bike is one ride away from snapping in half! I have quite high end stuff on my bikes(brakes and suspension) but I sell what comes on the bikes cheaper than what it is online and it’s brand new so quite few people have had some good deals out of me and I get some money back to put back into my bikes👍🏻
I am satisfied with my hardtail trail bike with a suntour durolux fork
The Canyon Spectral AL 5 and AL 6 are both discounted at the moment on the Canyon website so I'd go for the AL 6 because it has Fox suspension, a Shimano Deore groupset and a DT Swiss wheelset
I just build a new bike from the frame up. I decided to go with an "Alloy" frame with middle of the road mechanical drivetrain and "Alloy wheels". Where I decide to spend more money is on the suspension and the brakes. No point in having great suspension that allows you to go fast if you do not have the ability to stop. I also utilized the used market to find almost new suspension at a heavy discount. Another great option if you want to have your cake and eat it to as they say. As far as my cockpit I typically go with "Alloy" bars because I have had carbon break in the past and don't really trust them now. Also, most people should be focused on getting the right stem length (match your stem to your offset) so I always buy a middle of the road stem for my cockpit. After you make the jump to higher end parts it's cheaper down the road to move those components over to a newer frame as long as you have maintained your high end parts. From my experience many riders pay for high end suspension and tend to not maintain it or even need all the adjustments that come with them. Most people I run into don't check their air pressure on their suspension or their tires. Quickest way to ruin your investment. Great video! Always love the content.
I think your take is spot on. Although I ride a lot of lift laps as a fat guy and I am really glad I caught some we are one carbon rims for $950 a couple months ago. I destroyed alloy wheels and these have taken bike park abuse all season and are still true. I spent more for the warranty and like you said, I can build the next bike already having my wheels.
The people with the cheapest bikes are often the best riders. Bling bling doesn't make you more skilled or go fast.
well thats a lie
...because nobody cares if they wreck a £200 bike.
For entry level bikes, Shimano is soooo much better.
One Junior racer I knew hated suspension setup- she'd ride a hardtail just to avoid it- so I set her bike up to suit. Nothing on the fork but a lockout, but shimmed and setup exactly for her weight and style. On the rear, Fox's tried and true RP3 went out to a specialty tuner, who patterned it for her own weight/style/ and specific frame and its dynamics- perfect. The whole package performed like a bike twice its cost, and she didn't have to fuss with the fiddly bits ever again!😁
Spend your money on quality tuning, not fancier parts...🙄
I think people are missing the point in low v high end here, this is more of a comparison between lower spec and higher spec of the same bike, which means they are more comparable. The title also does mention full sus, so it's not as if they have forgotten full sus exists, nowadays the real budget full sus is £1500, not the £1000 it was a few years ago, so this is actually an 'entry level' full sus, not saying its full budget but they never claimed it to be, this is a very fair comparison fo exactly what the video title suggests.
The low end is my high end
It's my unobtanium.
😂
Middle Spec bike with upgrades to certain parts.
Canyon Neuron CF8. (Carbon frame, aluminum wheels SLX Full drivetrain)
Upgraded tl XTR Shifter, XT crankset, rear derailleur, cassette, oval chain ring, Fox Factory 36 Fork, Fox Factory Float X rear shock, One-UP Carbon bars, E-Thirteen 35mm Stem, Tubeless. Seems to fit my needs. I kinda wish at times I purchased the Spectral, but don't really push hard enough for a rowdy bike.
I just did a race on an alloy, rigid seatpost, tubes, cable actuated shifter (1000€) and my time from last year was basically the same with carbon, dropper, tubeless, di2 shifter (3000€). I wonder why I need those bling bling stuff, if they don't make me faster. :D
I’m calling bullshit.
Super happy with the same exact Canyon Spectral (the 6th version) as I am with my Canyon Grizl 7 AL for gravel. It is more than enough for amateurs and is ages ahead of what I use to ride :D
The main problem is always that the spec you can afford is only a few hundred pounds less than the version you really want. Back in 2012 I had enough money for a Lapierre zesty 514 (£3200), but I ended up spending an extra £400 and getting the 714 version instead which was only slightly better.
@@heywood165 it’s called diminishing returns and is a factor with pretty much any purchase.
So, basically, Owen's bike is the one you show visits on the hall of your house but never touches dirt and Anna's bike is the real one to get the job done.
I do preffer low spec, because I do not agree with the parts which are upped on a higher end bike. Transmissions dont realy mater, even NX can be fixed, what i realy care is in this order saddle, grips, rubber, wheels, brakes and a decent suspension at the end ( i have first a high end wheel maybe later a highish end fork)
But the prices of the bike parts went massively up in the last 15 years
Thank you for a helpful video. I would go for the entry level bike and enjoy it as it is afforable and just right for the riding I do.
I had to make the desicion like 2 months ago and k went with the the al5 and Upgraded it with x01 Rs Lyrk ult 2.1 and super deluxe ult. and in conclousion i spent more them 4000 Swiss Fracs only bc i had to replace the drive train bc it was so unusable the bike mecanic said and the shimano mt400 freehub body has bent since two months of more or less aberrage to hard riding and i can say the cheaper the bike the more parts u need to upgrade. It is so a pricy thing and i wish i could have bought the cf9 like second hand and then upgrade it, and start on a GOOD base. So i wanna say: dont cheap out ur gonna get very bad surprises in return.!! Save more get more and better stuff.!
The only situation in which twice the money gets you twice the bike is if you buy 2 bikes.
I always go with spending more then I should....Says my wife.
Carbon steel is also alloy like many other metal "mixtures". so nope, let's not keep saying allow when talking about aluminium. Thanks.
Yes, please, saying "it's alloy" is as useful as saying hydraulic brakes take "fluid."
90% of riders will never outride the base model top end brand bikes. Most riders wouldn't even know about tyres pressures and setting their suspension. They take delivery of their bike and just ride it until it breaks.
I'm not a pro rider so I usually buy a decent brand but the lower spec as I will not benefit from the performance of the higher spec parts.
I was ‘mountain biking’ on a Steyr Puch 3gear touring bike with chrome trimmings, narrow road tyres , white plastic saddle full mudguards, 40 years ago. £2000 is not ‘entry level’ by any stretch !
Thats what some families live on for a month….
There is a big difference in the forks and it is not the adjustments. It is the Debonaire air spring and the RC3 or even the RC2 damper. The lower spec fork has lesser internals. I have a Pike Select 150 and I have also ridden a Pike Ultimate. I don't feel that much of difference on the trails I usually ride, and i like the ability to do on the fly choices w open, trail, and lockout on the Select -turn-key.
Skill in navigating marketing is more necessary than personal fitness and performance parts.
I have the Spectral 5 al, like she has. But the reat shock mounting looks Different, mine looks like carbon one, also the canyon Sticker is in the center. A expensive bike makes you not better or skilled like a pro. 😎
That Canyon money must be reallllllllly exceptional for this one
You know you've been spending too much money on bikes when you think $5,000 isn't that much money for a bike
Depends what type of Alu
What happened to the welds on the aluminum spectral. They look horrendous. Especially the ones around that seattube gusset and around the upper shock mount. That st gusset looks like somebody stuck on some sort of patch...🤢
kis is just a gimmick sounds good not needed
Let's keep this simple, shall we?
1. Any complete drivetrain and brake package sold by Shimano and priced directly under 'XT' is all most riders will ever need. Avoid SRAM....
2. Add that to whatever frame/fork/suspension package any of the 'major' makers sold as their third level bike of the model you wanted last year - maybe two years ago.
3. Find some bike snob whose 1st or second level major manufacturer wheel package was inadequate and offer him $150 for the set.
Gathered up, professionally assembled, taxed, and out the door, this will cost much less than $2000 and be a better overall product. Run the wheels off of it, and happy trails!
@@floydblandston108 I watched some videos which suggested swapping out the jockey wheel on the lower end deore mech with a sealed bearing one from higher up the range and it changes the performance markedly!
$5000 is high end? Feels more middle of the road 😂
#askgmbntech I snapped my chain out on the trail and removed a link to get it back together and to get myself back home. Does snapping the chain mean I should replace the whole chain or just keep running it
Well, MTB was always an expensive sport, but you didn't mention hargtails, they are cheaper and still can shred. I think, it's better to start with cheaper bikes and then when you understand, you can upgrade what you want.
For a new bike capable of riding Moab, north shore, bike parks, etc. safely, $2000 is low end in my book. You have to take into mind who the people are doing these reviews. They ride at a pretty high level on some pretty nasty stuff so to them $2000 is pretty much as low as they would think of going simply for personal safety. Personally I would not ride that front shock and rear shock long, if at all. I would not feel safe on rough fast trails. And I am a 71 yr old mid-level rider who does not do jumps or stupid drops. There are much cheaper bikes that can be a lot of fun on the right trails. Riding the Eight Miles of Hell trail out of Butte MT USA on a hard tail would only be for your pro riders with legs of a god and the ability to recover from massive physical abuse. Buy a bike that fits you budget, riding skill and trails in your area. I probably have $8000 in my bike because I can afford it and I know it will ride anything I throw at it. I admit it is a dentist bike but building it is my main hobby. I ride with a guy with a 25 yr old Rockhopper hard tail who schools me on the climbs. He is happy with his bike, I am happy with my bike. But I would never invite him to Moab or Butte to ride. We have fun on the local trails.
Interesting to hear. I am getting my bike upgraded from stock brakes to some better stuff, new softer compound tires, 160mm RockShox Yari, etc at this moment cause I'll be hitting the Moab (as well as Durango, CO and Angel Fire) for the first time in just a month and a half. Using a 2022 Polygon Siskiu T7. Rear shock already replaced with a new Ripmo (or Ripley) takeoff DVO Topaz, and a 4-piston rear caliper.
@@JoeIsCrazyWillman Cool! Moab will test you and your bike. I have been down there at least 10 times. I would suggest throwing on a pair of used tires for Moab. The slick rock eats tires and any tire will stick to it. If you have the money the Hope Tech 4 V4 brakes are incredible. That Yari will be a huge difference over the Recon. Oh and have good knee and elbow pads. Hopefully having them on will mean you never put them to the test. I crashed one year before I used pads. Got an infection in my arm from a scratch and almost lost it. Have fun.
@@GarthFlint-nc2vj I had a RockShox 35 Gold 150mm on it until just now. I have 2yr old Hans Dampf on it and ran out of sealant. Back tire was getting low on tread, so got new Hans Dampf in Addix Soft with a 2.3 rear and kept 2.6 front. I'm in Texas, so we have LOTS of rock everywhere here. The Addix Speedgrip has given me a great 2yrs, but I want that fresh grip for the various terrain between the three different zones, plus once I get back here. I have the Addix Soft Hans Dampf on my Chameleon and it rips 🤙🏻
@@JoeIsCrazyWillman Being in Texas you know hard pack and rock! I ride all over the northwest. Rocks or loam depending on altitude and location.
@@GarthFlint-nc2vj yep, lots and lots of rocks and loose-over-hard. Washing out is always a concern with the fine dust and small sand-like rock all over the flat corners and even berms... Out in hill country, they even get that "moon dust" all over the rocks, and that can get slick even when dry!
It’s like buying a Ford F-150 XL and Ford F-150 XLT
Yes..... in the 1990's.
More like a Ford F150 XL vs a Sport
Upgrading is a false economy. If you buy a cheaper bike then upgrade to the same spec of a higher end bike you'll spend significantly more and still be left with an overall lower end product. If you want a better bike buy used or sell your cheaper bike when you outgrow what it offers and buy a higher spec bike.
Why does this AL Spectral have a different shock mount than what's on a website? It looks crappy. I have a 2023 AL5 and it's different as well.
£2000 a LOW end mtb.....come on,how many of us 'mortals' can call spending TWO THOUSAND POUNDS 'low end'....Get real FFS !!
Cue the "Ride what you have" and "Buy a used bike and ride that" and "Too bad you're poor bud" comments. That is stupid money for a low end bike
£2k isnt a low end bike.
That's not that expensive. I know women who spend 1000 on a dress they wear one time. It's all realitive. Think of all the parts on that bike - fork, shock, wheels, ect - it adds up. For 2k you can get an incredible bike these days that will last for a long time. Sounds like you need to get a better job
@@joehoeper4648 bikes overpriced, dress is stupid and overpriced
@@joehoeper4648they're both overpriced
just buy a low end bike and upgrade over time
I want to know what is better trek fuel ex or the specialized stumpjumper
Look at the quality of the dealer. Both are excellent bikes so it is the quality of the LBS you buy from which will be the difference.
Stumpy by far.
Everything what's gone wrong with GMBN and cycling industry in general - 2k bikes are low-end now.... when customers coming to local bike shops think £300 is too much for a bike...
Would you folks be willing to produce a fully comprehensive "How to evaluate a second hand bike for purchase" video?
I know I'd very much appreciate it, chances are some others would too.
Really enjoy your vids, thank-you.
We've got one actually! Check this out ua-cam.com/video/Lxamt2swGIU/v-deo.htmlsi=pPrOzFV8Pq7YqhT1
Mineral fluid is fine for long Alpine descents.
2000$ for a MTB is not low end these channels are the reason the bike industry is in the dumps and make the average person who just wants to ride and have fun are not doing so because they don’t have the luxury of buying a bike that they feel will make them fit in on the trail
Exactly, I started the video and when she said low en I just spun my eyes.
@@ChunkyWalnutX yes I did the same and this is why I don’t really watch this channel they always push the high end bike stuff and think it’s ok to down play on mtbs that don’t cost 5k plus and I bet they don’t even pay for their own bikes all these bike brands send them bikes for free
@@topchoice1621And constantly push carbon frames and 29 inch wheels.
The welds on that Canyon look disgusting. I Barley notice the ones on my Rocky Mountain.
You can’t really compare Rocky Mountain, a top-tier brand, to canyon. Canyon is at a much lower level of design and build quality (and price)
@@Jump-n-smash well that’s good to hear lol
@@jckgoldness Rockies are high end bikes. Canyon is a decent brand but it’s more about price point than refinement.
Pretty sure there is no damper upgrade for the RS 35 fork.
change that sram sx, give it a 4 pot front brake and its golden
The reason GMBN is doing so bad is that they are so friggin out of touch with their audience. They are just a shill for the bike industry.
I picture you writing this comment with one hand. The other is balled into a fist, which you’re angrily shaking in the air. The kind of content is hardly worth getting upset over.
@@nicks8026 I actually have both hands in clenched fists with the index fingers pointing, because thats the only way I can type 👉👈😬.
Pretty disappointed that you didn't compare the actual ride quality between hi & low
Why is it on rampage they dont use carbon frame?
Because carbon breaks when a rock flicks up 😅
Simple suspension all the way
My bike must be 1/6th of whatever qualifies as entry level assuming said bracket starts at $2,600 and my bike was $440 after tax. Hell, I bet the /clothes/ you're wearing cost more than my bike, your shoes more than my tires, your spokes more than my saddle. Don't be surprised if you've ever been called elitist.
2k really isn't that expensive when you price out what the components cost alone. It's still a lot of money but when you look at dirt bikes mountain biking isn't crazy expensive. That 2k bike is a good bike that you could ride for years with routine maintenance. It's like anything else good work isn't cheap and cheap work isn't good. Walmart bikes are a lot cheaper; in price and quality.
Ive never seen someone mount the brake levers on the inside of the shifter,,,
Depends on the shifter length and the brake handle length. Usually people opt for very short levers on the brakes
Looks like a Jeffsy 🙌🏻
Canyon again? Overpriced DTC bikes if you ask me.
1.7k bike won the race, "faceoff"
That is not a low end bike
It's entry level.
@@jckgoldnessWhy does nobody want to come join our fun and thinks everybody on two wheels is an elitist snob?
*Sets a 4 digit pricetag as the first gate to keep*
@@nopenoperson9118 I met a lot of cool people out on the trail on a $300 2nd hand bike. It was a trash bike but got the job done for a time.
Honestly I’d put £2000-3 as a mid range bike. Low end is surely under a grand?
Post a name brand trail bike that is full suspension, 160/160mm travel for less than $2k. I would honestly love to see it as it might get a couple friends into it. The trouble I think is $2k is the cliff. Anything below is almost a waste because a beginner will outgrow it if they flourish and regret not spending another $500 up front. Buying a used bike for a couple hundred is a better way to step into the game at low risk.
@@bbl69420 Where does 160mm travel come from? The lower end spectral only has 140mm rear travel and 150mm up front. It’s a good question you ask. In the UK you can get a Polygon in the sale for under £1k and I would argue that is an “entry level” bike. The Polygon Siskiu D5 is on sale at Blacks for £899 at the moment. It has everything you need to go trail riding as a beginner entering the sport. For £2-3k you can get a bike that will likely outperform most people riding it and I would say is more mid-range. My perspective is that riders and the industry is somehow convinced that £2k is the price tag to enter the sport and I disagree. 🙂
@@bbl69420 I agree with you buying second hand is better.
@@markbails9896 If I was buying a bike that could do it all I would go for 160/160 personally. The polygon's I looked up in USD were all $2k+ so that's def cool they can be got for much less in the UK. I think less so than the components, we have to be asking why frames are priced so high, especially aluminum frames.
@@bbl69420 yeah agree around 150-160 is a do-almost-anything bike. Like you I know people that would probably enjoy MTB but don’t want to / can’t spend 2k+ on a bike. A well looked after second hand is always a good choice as you say.
Yes $2000 is considered low end for a full suspension bike. If that price seems unreasonable hit up a brand like Polygon or it’s a great time to pick up a used bike and save
Mid range for lyfe yall
What is the difference 🤔 the money
in the real world the average rider will be as fast on either ...
I will say that most Average Riders Bikes are ranging from 500$-1,500$ while above that pricing is for Dentists in my opinion, I'm an Average rider myself spending more will on result on marginal weight savings. Solution to that? =More Saddle Time i rekon
@@gunshipanropace2gunshipand119
Riding a $500 bike on the trails in my area would mean buying a new $500 bike for the next ride. It’s a false economy. Then again, if your trails consist of rolling terrain and low speed descents, a sub $1k bike might be just fine.
I'm sorry, low end £2000, it's just another show that's lost sight of reality, £2000 is a massive price for a bike, go watch Sam pilgrim and his outlook and having an epic day on a very budget friendly bike, you can tell this is just an advert
$2k. Low-end? 🤨
Upsell!
Lmao €2000 bike is now considered low end. This is why MTB didn't have a much broader appeal
@@adrian_veidt fine with me. Limited appeal means fewer doofuses on the trails.
I'm not ashamed to be the owner of a walmart schwinn that i got on sale. Alienating people that want to ride sucks. I understand it takes money to build these bikes but.......
@@tomheater6149 so showing you bikes that are out of your price range is “alienating”? Maybe it’s time to grow up. At one point or another, all of us encounter things we want that are out of reach. It’s just a fact of life. Enjoy what you have and/or sock money away for something you truly want.
Low end is $300.
£2000 isnt low end... Go to halfords and buy a £400 bike... THAT is low end
2k is low end? I think 400-700 is low end
Not so much these days for a brand new full suss bike! But all bikes are good bikes 😊
You're out of your mind. Yes you can get a shitty hard tail for that with no fixins.
Not for full suspension or anything rated for real trail riding. At $400-700, you're getting mostly commuter hardtails with mountain bike tires or TERRIBLE full suspension bikes that have virtually no serviceable parts available for their wonky designs, so they're throwaway bikes, and if ridden on anything other than grass and gravel, they're gonna wear out quick and you'll be spending another $400-700 on another throwaway bike.... Or buy once cry once, as they say. You can get a reasonable Polygon Siskiu D6 for around $1200, or even better deal, the D7SE for $1400, and it's not only fully serviceable and comes with name brand everything almost, it's also in line with current geometries and sizing (boost axles, tapered head tubes, etc), so upgrading or fixing is a breeze. The only thing not is they use a type 40/41 derailleur hanger not a UDH. That's about it. 👌🏻 $1400 is way less than most people's tax returns here in the USA, and since I don't have kids, a house, or a business, getting all those deductions, it's just a smidge over.... So when I file my taxes, I can get a new lower end yet quality full suspension bike brand new if I want... Or save a couple year's of them for something extra nice.
The welding is just ugly...😢
You guys haven't stated the overal weights of the bikes.
$2,999
Christ, AGAIN?
Fyi, the CF9 doesn't have 2 cables. It's mech is wireless so it has 2 hoses (not cables) for the brakes. I'd have thought any self respecting mechanic would know the difference between a hose & a cable lol.
Take your bike into any LBS and they will be called brake cables regardless of whether it’s technically a cable or a hose
@@tracymcmanus550 then the bike shops you visit are wrong. It has fluid running through it. It is a hydraulic hose. If your shop mechanic orders a brake cable instead of a brake hose you will be disappointed.
@@45graham45 yes they know how to order correctly. The term goes back to before there were hydraulic brakes. It’s an industry wide used term just like clipless pedals. Cable brakes are still used although less common the higher up you go
Lot of complaints in the comments but guys you are not obliged to buy any bike at all if you don't want to. These guys are not instructing you to do anything, they are telling you about things...theres a big difference.
@@Fernweh1965 wow! A sane, non-whiny comment. Cheers!
I just found a Norco for 2015.00 us 2023 .rock shox gx build .
I wouldnt recommend a beginner buys any bike from a direct to consumer brand.