For me, the detachable batteries, are a game changer. You can't swap a Shimano battery if it dies.... you CAN swap a Sram battery if it dies. The braking on Sram groups is similar to that of a car. Something we are used to with our feet. However, I think that comes down to personal preference. When it comes to pad clearance, Shimano wins. When it comes to weight, your test forgot one detail: chainring size. Sram wouldve been even heavier, if you pitted the Sram 50/37 chainrings with that of a 50/34 of Shimano. This was a big flaw in your review, but as Sram was heavier either way, made no difference. Sram also has better mix and match abilities than Shimano. Thats a win that Shimano CANT get at the moment. Personally, Shimanos bigger chainrings, is a win for me, as it's been shown bigger is better in regards to things like that.... OSPWs, crank spindles, bearing sizes, they just all roll better. It may not be noticeable for YOU, but I recently took out my CX bike and put this to the test. I have 4 chainring sizes I use in cross: 40t, 42t, 44t, and a 46t when its a fast flat course. I have even used a 48t chainring in the past. I started with the 40t, and as soon as I was on the 42 t, it was obvious. You can feel the difference. Its important to note that all my cross bikes run 36t cassettes, so this was not variable. It's also important to note that all my crank lengths are the same. All my cross bikes are Trek Boones. One with Red AXS, one with Force AXS, and the third was untested because it is not AXS and might throw the feeling off.(mechanical 12 speed Force/Red 22 CX1 mix via Ratio Technology.) Wheels remained consistent in the test as well opting for Bontrager Paradigm CX tubular wheels with the Challenge Baby Limus Team Edition red walls as a constant variable. This is to say that everything was exactly the same, GXP spindles and all. Wheels Manufacturing BBs, everything. Only difference was the size of chainrings, and the size was able to be felt. It was harder to turn the smaller rings. I think there are 2 reasons for this: one is that to get to the same speeds, you have to pedal faster and/or be in a lower cog on the cassette, as you might on a bigger front ring. You also tend to max out your cogs faster. With the 46t chainring, it was noticeably harder to get going immediately, but once you got the pedals going it was noticeably easier to both speed up, and to hold speed over the smaller 40t ring. Obviously, for cross, a 46t ring is big, and for the above reason might be a deal breaker on a windy course, however, this is why most riders don't go bigger than a 44t. Both the 44t and 42t felt similar at acceleration, the feeling difference was minor, but it was ever so slightly harder to turn the 44t at first, but not enough that on a windy course it would make a difference to me. I know because I ran one of each on both bikes this last season. Hardly noticed any real difference. This being said, the Shimano so called standard compact of 50/34, would be a winner for me on the road since Srams 48/35 is supposed to be about the same thing as far as gearing ratios goes. Finally, the hood shapes. Shimano hoods got much better for me since the new change, and im a fan. Before the new hoods, I never would've ridden the Shimano hoods, they were much too small. My hands couldn't get comfortable, and the mechanical hydro levers my fingers were not happy with the given space. Srams hoods were bigger, which for some is a deal breaker for those with small hands, but you can't please everyone. The ergonomics of the new Sram hoods are great too, especially for smaller hands. However for my hands, the old Force and Red AXS hoods feel much more natural. Using the old hoods of Sram and the new hoods of Shimano, it's a draw for me. The single button on each lever is a win for me as well. One big paddle? Hell yes. The old Sram 22 was great in this way for me as well too, because I often wear gloves, sometimes thicker gloves than other times, and a paddle is a big win for me on those days. And with thick gloves, Sram wins again with the hood shape, Shimano space between the bar drop and the brake lever, is just not quite enough, and while Sram is also a pinch, it's certainly better. Noticeably. All this said, Sram wins for me on almost every metric. I do love both brands, but im a bigger fan of Sram. For me and my riding styles, road, mtb, cross, and anything else with gears, Sram fits my needs better than Shimano. Although that may change through the years. Sram wins for me. Edit: I just wanted to add that I like the XDr body as well. While it is harder to find cassettes or wheels options, and frustrating you can't use some of your 11 speed wheels without buying new freehub bodies, the system itself I love. The body doesn't getted as marred up by the cassette. You don't have to worry about damaging it by shifting under power. For me, this is yet another win over Shimano.
Never used SRAM, but I am not tempted either. My LBS mechanic loves SRAM but he says it won't last as well as Shimano in wet conditions. As someone who rides 6x/week all year round, that is a deal breaker. Durability is a key thing for me. My ultegra Di2 hasn't failed me in 3 years of use and the brake mineral oil doesn't fade with time, unlike DOT. This saves on servicing. I also don't like the waste produced by running extra coin cell batteries, or the higher consumable prices for the AXS system. Shimano just seems cheaper to run and I can pick whichever chain I want. Running costs should have been included in the video. I like the interchangeability of SRAM though, and I definitely run their standard chains, as they last must longer than Shimano. Whether they one is easier to install than the other, that is irrelevant for most who buy a bike fully assembled. I don't think I will ever mess with the cables until the battery needs replacing. Gearing wise, I can just buy whichever chainrings/cassettes I want within reason, as long as there is enough adjustment in FD mount. I run a 46/33 at the front (non ultegra ones) and have zero issues. I would never choose a groupset for the gearing, except for the max cassette size of the RD.
SRAM wireless all the way, don’t see the point in Di2 esp. in modern internally routed (all integrated overkill) bikes. Also the fact that SRAM shifter batteries ‘wear’ evenly with right shifter to go down the cassette, left shifter to go up and both to shift the front chainring is genius. Derailleur batteries interchangeable is a lifesaver to get you home if rear mech battery ‘dies’ mid ride. What I don’t like about 12sp SRAM is flat top chain. Why SRAM why?! What happened with good old fashioned compatibility with SHIMANO components and 3rd party manufacturers.
As a system I prefer Di2 and buying a new bike I bought an Ultegra 8100 equipped one. Building a new bike I have opted for SRAM Force AXS with power meter purely on cost grounds. I don't run out petrol in my car or battery on my bikes so not an issue as far as I'm concerned. Batteries are fine with charging once a week although not strictly necessary. Never dropped a chain or had shifting issues with any Shimano group=set but am happy to use either.
I don't know how marginal this is, as any AXS derailleur will work, but with Shimano there is a different derailleur for 1X and 2X. At this point, Shimano feels like they are a decade behind Sram.
No mention of the additional functionality offered by the Shimano hood buttons? I personally don't like the Sram controls with their fugly paddles, chonky derailleurs and jagged lines of their cranks. Everything on Shimano is more ergonomic and aesthetically pleasing. But we should all be grateful Sram exists otherwise Shimano's rate of innovation would be even slower than it is currently.
I still don't understand the fuss about wireless shifting. Is not like the transmission is going to go one way and the bike another different way. I own both and I have complete wired the Di2 as it provides some advantages vs semi-wireless. 1 - Instant "wake up" 2 - 50% battery range increase. ( I charge every 2000 Km) 3 - Don't need to worry about coin cells on the shifters (I have a pair die without warning midride on my AXS) The shift speed is noticeable, AXS being slower on front and rear shifting as it has to wait to confirm the double tap on both sifters to decide. The front shifting of di2 is mind bowling. +braking = Di2 hands down.
The other issue with that is higher running costs and more waste produced to simply shift gears. And yet more batteries to check of course. I already bought a bike fitted with Di2 3 years ago. I won't ever mess with the cables until the battery needs replacing, which is easy enough and won't happen anytime soon. Perhaps a bike mechanic will charge less to fit AXS vs Di2, but that is also a one off expense.
It provides more drawbacks than benefits. I have my di2 fully wired as that is an option on Ultegra and DuraAce (Not in 105 :( ) It provides: - 50% range increase, as the sifters don't need to pair to the RD. - Instant wake up - Forget about shifters coin cells. all is powered by a single battery.
Used both and knew immediately I wanted the Shimano. Tactility, speed of shift and keeping front and rear separate won it over for me - I also find the levers on SRAM massive, they're like rowing oars! Your video has a degree of focus on building a bike - we all like tinkering, of course, but how many viewers do full bike builds? This reduces the impact of the fully wirelss set-up with SRAM, for instance.
Shimano having the battery inside the frame usually inside the seatpost means its usually waterproof. I've been in races where the derailleurs of people were failing due to being exposed to too much water in Malaysia/tropical rain conditions using Sram. Shimano Never had an issue
Have been a Shimano user for years, but recently venture into Gravel riding put me in contact with SRAM drivetrain. I really like the versatilities of SRAM ecosystem to mix and match off-road and on-road drivetrain parts.
I have both - Shimano shifting especially front just feels more slick and braking better modulated. I also prefer the single shifter feel of Shimano. SRAM better for own build and I prefer their battery setup - but if its about the ride (as it should be) it’s Shimano 👍
I know it’s subjective, but with the battery tucked away, I prefer the slimmer mechs of Ultegra over Force. Those batteries hanging off the back just doesn’t do it for me. What I would like to see is a black version of Ultegra, as the traditional Ultegra grey doesn’t always colour match the frameset. Keep the grey, but offer a “murdered out” version. After a bit of wear and tear, might be a project to airbrush the Ultegra black! The winner here is anyone who can afford a bike with either of these high-tech gruppos on it.
I prefer the look of Di2 mechs by not having the battery stuck to them. Most of the comments are personal preference and that’s totally understandable as if you are lucky enough to have either of these groupsets, then you are already on to a winner. 12 speeds, electronics, disc brakes (even 105 or Rival) groupsets - how lucky we are, and don’t you forget it.
I own a Tarmac SL7 with 12S Shimano 105 Di2 and I love how it works. At the begining I was planning to upgrade the bike to Ultegra but the 5 is enough for me.
Excellent Video. I currently ride the Ultegra Di2 Which came with my Bike. I very happy with it and I agree completely about the charging cable. Now as I venture to build my 1st Road Bike I intend to use Sram Force AXS....thanks for the insight!
I was a Shimano fanboy for over 30 years. I'd just rolled my eyes when anyone in the SRAM cult would rant about how it is better. Well, I now have SRAM on three out of four bikes. It started when I bought a new bike and with the SRAM Red because of the why they work. When my brain is shut down, I'd occasionally hit the wrong button. I guess it doesn't help that I have fairly large hands. So, now I have become what I always hated. I am in the SRAM cult. Although, I would consider a bike with Shimano if I was shopping and got a good deal on it. My brother rides Shimano. So I do get reminded how good it is. Shimano is more...refined (for lack of a better term) while SRAM is a bit more industrial.
I've got a Scott Foil with Rival AXS and a SuperSixEvo with 105Di2. The SRAM is MUCH better. It shifts better, I like the battery setup better, it's quieter, less finicky, and thus far has performed better. But man that supersix just constantly calls me to ride it, it's so comfortable and fast.
On long rides you need to eat. Take your food into your left hand and you are still able to shift with your right hand with shimano no matter up or down. That's not possible with SRAM. Battery theft is also small possibility with SRAM. Replacement cogs for the cassette are a big winner for Shimano. That's also not possible with SRAM casettes. And that's the reason the price category is not well thought out in this video. The less efficient smaller cogs was mentioned but not really ratet.
how often you have to eat while you shift? its just not a wise decision to be eating or drinking while you have to shift or brake, and how many times you have to change sprockets? its just not worth changing a couple of sprockets when you can change the whole thing for the same price 😂
@@alannkevin Eating: On Long Audaxes/Brevets very often. Sprockets are cheap compared to cassettes. Educate yourself. Theft: Ever lost a front light or tail light after parking your bike at a coffey stop? If the battery is gone, you are done.
@@oliverberger5946 But what are you eating that takes so much time, burgers? You just have to KNOW when to eat and drink, is not worth the risk. Youll be surprised the good stuff you can find at ebay like “take offs”, because if you have to change a sprocket most likely the rest is about to go too so why not buying the whole thing instead? Is not worth the hassle of taking apart the cassette just to replace two or three cogs. I’ve never left my bike unattended. Not even for a couple of minutes. I know every single rider in the group so if someone steals something we would cut his hands off 😂, my lights and camera are fixed to the bike computer which is bolted into the handlebar. Dont get men wrong, I have mechanical 11 speed Dura ace/Ultegra on the gravel and 12 speed Red axs on my madone, nothing beats mechanical Dura Ace though (only red 10 speed) but you can’t deny the fact that AXS Sram has gone way better than Shimano including mountain bike drivetrains, any AXS shifter road is compatible with Eagle and Apex drivetrains so that just buries Shimano 10ft down
Agree batteries on both systems are a none issue. The only people that have issues with battery driven mechs are people that don't own it or never used it.....
While I love my Shimano Di2 8100 the fact that I needed to buy £50 of cable & connector to get my wireless shifters a firmware update was a minor disappointment as the hoods don’t have the ability to take an update over the air. Once purchased though, it’s a tool that I have for future updates.
5 months into an Ltwoo eR9 11-speed setup and it has the central battery drawback of shimano and the slower shifting of sram. The only thing I have ever had to do is charge the battery twice. On the bike I do not even think about it, it just works. Fantastic for the price.
I have sram e-tap AXS on all 4 bikes iI actually changed one from Dura Ace di2 because sram is so easy to use especially with gloves on and the set up is so easy as well.
1st gen Force eTap AXS is worth considering for less than half the price if you can still find it at closeout prices. I got a complete 2x groupset about a year and a half ago for 800USD.
Truth! I have Red on my road bike and really like it. So, when I built up my new gravel and road bike, I found the old Force for insane prices. I've ridden a bike with the newer version, but the smaller hoods don't make a real difference to me. I have large hands anyway. I actually found the Force for cheaper than Apex is selling for.
Is SRAM offering hood buttons to control your computer now? I didn't hear that mentioned... For me, that is perhaps the biggest advantage of Shimano over SRAM...
Being 5'4" tall, shops never have my size in Ultegra or Force to test ride. That's even the Seattle area. I'll be lucky to find a 105 Di2 to test ride. Hence: Thanks for the video! I'm leaning towards Force.
For a Tri Rig things get very different. The wireless nature and ability for the new Force D2 AXS to have up to 6 remote blip switches with zero wires to configure on a Tri bike cockpit is huge, the weight is much improved now on the D2 and with brakes sets like the S900 Aero you get great braking at a reasonable price point.
Sram is simply unable to make cranks that are not ugly and their gear set-up of 13-teeth difference between chainrings makes no sense, but their wireless design and shift logic are just so much smarter than Shimano's. Usually prefer Campagnolo over both of of them, but when I see them charging 500 quid of a set of batteries for their latest wireless electronic groupset, I'd have to declare them clinically insane.
Do you remember their $200 chain tool from like 2012? I will get Campy when wireless makes it to Chorus. Ergopower is the best lever configuration there is.
Shimano all the way! The braking is important! Battery life is longer & looks cleaner (I've placed outlets a foot off the floor in my garage for working under my car anyway so I don't care the cable length). I've never needed a clutch on the derailleur on my road bike anyway. I use power meter pedals so the meters don't matter. Seems to me sram only really has price & weight to stand on, unless you get shimano as a complete build. Then it's only weight.
better gearing and more intuitive shifting are more important to me so sram is better for me. Not long ago breaking was not important coz "everybody" wanted rim brakes 😅
@@Flexo_l do you actually use your hardest gearing? Are you climbing hills that are 25-30%? Seems like without those two parameters, the range improvements are moot. Intuitive shifting? I run ultegra in syncro mode so it's just up & down with cross chaining out of the equation.
@@joekawasaki I'm from the land of Roglic and Pogacar so yes. Hills here are steep. Every local hill has gradients of 20% or more. So it is nice to have climbing gears.
@@Flexo_l I've just moved from 11-28 on my old mechanical to 11-30 on the new electronic set up & have an 11-34 cassette on the way to create a more than I need gear range! Paired with the 52-36 up front I don't imagine needing more!
You forgot the maintenance. Sram always swap maintenance components, which makes it a pain in the ass if you want to do it yourself (purchase of maintenance equipment)
Finally, somebody else that gets the idea. In just the 21st-century, their road crankset spindle standards have changed twice, from GXP, to 30 mm and the 28.99 mm DUB. Shimano on the other hand, 24 mm Hollowtech II for a few decades now. If it's not broke, don't try to fix it.
Sram might be lower, but when you buy the parts separately like chains, cassettes etc have you seen SRAMs prices? Insane! I have Sram rival and the braking is worse than cable actuated brakes. I want to sell my bike after only 1 year and get something with Shimano on it. I won’t buy Sram again! I don’t know how you think SRAM is better. It’s bulkier and uglier too.
@@DaveCM no, they are still useless noisy with a grinding feel. Were like that from day one. Mechanics have looked at it but exactly the same. I used to have TRP Spyre brakes on another bike and they were better.
I want to upgrade my 10 speed SRAM Apex gears, derailleur & brakes to something better but not at a cost of more than a bike. Don’t have bottomless budget. Lot of places selling totally full group sets including cranks these days, where does everyone go these days for parts?
How do people find the shift buttons on Shimano Di2? Any mis shifts? They’re very close together with only a slight difference in height between the two buttons.
I don't know why ppl say you can't carry a spare battery with Shimano. Why not? it weighs 54 grams and is the size of a pocket pump. A pair of SRAM batteries weighs 48 grams.
Doesnt really matter to me, to be honest I'll buy whatever is cheaper. SRAM if I'm going 1x, Shimano for 2x. I like how easy it is to swap batteries and run an Eagle setup with SRAM on a gravel bike or mountain bike. I have had to warranty a SRAM XX1 derailleur in the past, but not Shimano so far. But on road I've noticed every new bike lists its weight as >.5lbs heavier on the Force versions of the bikes with otherwise identical parts. For that reason I'd lean Ultegra on any super expensive bike I am spending a lot on expecting it to be light. Force crankset looks better IMO, but not that expensive to upgrade Shimano to a DuraAce crankset which is the best looking of all in my opinion.
Aside from which is best why is it that when you look at say a Giant TCR or Trek Emonda the SRAM version is more expensive than the Di2? I believe the Shimano groupset is more expensive than SRAM so surely it should be the opposite.
I'm still mystified at how SRAM AXS shifts wirelessly. When I first heard of eTap I knew one day I'd own it. Now that I have it, I haven't noticed slower shifting or worse braking than with my old mechanical DA 9000, but it's way more convenient and easier to use. I'm never going back to Shimano.
I have Sram Force but, I switched out the rear cassette from force 10/33 to Red 10/33, Red is a little lighter but for me I doesn't have a black 33 tooth sprocket.
From my experience the SRAM flat top chains are very poor quality, noisy, gunks up faster and is harder to clean. SRAM compatibility with things like indoor trainers where you need to buy separate freehub bodies need to be considered as well. Lastly SRAM brakes are terrible in warm weather and require more frequent servicing / bleeding intervals. The brake rub and constant need to realign rotors will drive you mad. Shimano needs to be awarded 5 points just on their brakes alone! I got swayed to SRAM on paper specs before such as better / logical interface and less fussy cabling... But seriously I will never go back until the do better brakes and chains.
I’d never buy a force though, I’d go for apex or rival. Can’t say the same for ultegra because it’s the new motors and 105 has the old motors, so there is more of a reason to go for it over 105, whether or not that’s worth it.
Right, since Sram went 12 speed, their cranks are particularly hideous. Their latest Red cranks looks like a swastika flag and the 2025 Red brake/shift levers have the shape of clipped toe nails. The most hideous is the price of +4000 $/€/£.
Shimano all day. I have one bike with the original first gen di2 that still works. I also have raced on a set of 12 year old shimano saint brakes. Shimano is the toyota pickup of the bike world. Sram just isnt there for longevity yet.
I really like your videos, but you should ad 1 category: maintenance. In this category Shimano is a lot less expensive. new chain + cassette: Shimano is 100 to 150 euro; SRAM 200 euro. Also to change the chainrings SRAM is a lot more expensive.
Correct. The matchbox-size batteries conveniently fit into any pocket. In our bike shop we therefore keep the batteries and chargers hidden in the workshop and only hand them out upon sale. If kept on the bike the batteries would also discharge on their own within a few weeks so you have to recharge them frequently, and it takes additional effort to have batteries ready for a test ride. As loveable performance is when all works perfectly with Etap, logistically it's a nightmare.
My experience with shimano groupset from this video is very good overall, just dont like the fact it hasnt got clutch. Rattles too much on uneven pavement. Sram on the other hand nails it with clutch. Just my opinion.
I think you're evaluating products with points that make not the same "weight" in many of users criteria. For exemple, after setting my Shimano or Sram at first use i never used again the app or either... Same for the Battery, you say it's not important because you charge it anytime you ride... it's not the case for everybody and anyone who has used there two know that shimano last for years (exagerate) while sram are often empty. The most important for "performance user" is Performance in firction (winner Shimano) Weight (shimano) and performance in shifts (winner shimano) brakin (winner shimano) ... I used both on many bikes and they are simply not at the same level of performance. Ponderate your criteria and Shimano wins by miles !
I never understood how the system on SRAM is in any way better? More bulky, heavier, you have to charge it far more often. I take the Shimano with one more cable (you have to wire brakes anyways) and one charging every 6 months. Shimano’s larger sprockets are more efficient, plus what’s your point about a mullet on a 2by lol.
The gear ratios are exactly what makes Sram so much less attractive than Shimano despite its much better shift logic. The big gear is smaller and the small gear much bigger than Shimano's or Campagnolo's. And that's completely ignoring Sram's shit-ugly crank design.
Seriously, Shimano mechanical ultegra is the better value, screw the stupid power meter n al really do have all you’ll ever need! My ultegra group set on my Cervelo R3 is the best and still works perfectly from 2014!
Take note of the rear derailleur's barrel adjuster. The plastic sleeve may loosen to the point it just slips around the metal barrel without turning it. When this happens, replace the barrel adjuster and salvage one from any Shimano rear derailleur from the Ultegra R8000's previous generation. I plan to use the 105 RD-R7000's if mine wears out that way.
Maybe its good news because the last 15 year bike lot .cannot change tube in less than 15mins at road side cannot adjust cable brakes or sync gears. ride with 15 club lads every week ..they are lost when comes to common sense basic machanics most clubs are the same 😂
I own both, new Sram force and ultegra 12speed di2... 1)Shimano charging is not a problem but rather easy to use and last alot longer than Sram batteries.. 2)braking power is far superior with Shimano plus they use mineral oil 3)ultegra is slightly lighter than Sram force 4)shifting is still faster with Shimano compared to the new sram force so I don't know why he gave both systems credit on the comparison chart..lol 5) when it's connected who really cares about an ap...lol 6)the only thing I like over Shimano when using Sram is the gearing(10-33 casettte is so sweet).. 7)my mechanic connects all my wireless(sram etap and di2) for me so that's never a problem 😅
The only reason doing comparisons like this is click bait. The points in some categories are so random and and unqualified it makes me angry. But i look at this video, like other people do and the click bait works. But i dont think, videos like this makes people happy.
I dont know where the pricing come, but from bike24: Ultegra: 1530€ discounted from 1828€ Force: 2027€ discounted from 2840€. Sram even with bigger discount its still more expensive then Simano's RRP, thats why bikes cheaper with ultegra! And its not even like for like, as the sram misses the brake rotors. He compared to Dura Ace prices: 2.806€ discounted from 3.449€. The rest is opinnion based, the sram extra hardness of gears count for 1 less revolution at 60km/h (98 vs 99) probably shimano is more efficient by that much as well, on the other hand giving a point for a couple of grams looks just as pointless, they probably are to close to call, except for the price, and thats exactly what is wrong in this video.
As a Campy user for over 30 years and great fan of its mechanical shift logic that allows you to use your pinky for upshifting when climbing with your hands on the upper bars, I can't feel any love for this company anymore when I see the asking price for a set of batteries for their latest wireless groupset is 500 bucks.
@@thedownunderverse Agreed. Di2 is better. Mechanical FD setup can be finiky, esp if you don't respect the process. But once you know what to do, it works like a charm and is not far behind. Super slick with no drops. After this, problems normally only arise from non series parts, poor maintenance or just terrible shifting protocol.
@@JibbaJabber 😀 1x mechanical, sure all good. Mechanical front derailleur though is a nightmare even if you get it perfect- cable stretch, component wear, plus the need for technique with the shift paddle/cadence is a recipe for disaster. Di2 is a game changer for the front derailleur. And when we get to 13sp and 14sp drivetrains electronic will be almost a prerequisite for the micro adjustability of the rear mech too. 👍🏻
Speaking of "shape and form", this is exactly where Sram fails miserably. Sram cranks are ugly as hell, the latest Red crank even looks like is has a built-in swastika, and the 2025 Red brake levers look like clipped toe nails.
PRICES ARE CRAZY STUPID...I have r8000 whole groupe and only thing I miss is autotrimming. They ripp us af. Hope china product will save our wallets with their electronic gropusets
For most people, yes. Except for those with chronic hand injuries. Electronic is the difference between riding a bike or not, although that rarely gets mentioned in the media.
@@Flexo_l don't have power, nor cadence, hr is not mandatory for a ride even if it dies on the ride and it lasts for a year or so, Garmin is charged ones in 10h of riding, don't have radar lol, and phone is something else. But XX1 axs on my MTB is THE MOST ANOYING THING a have ever owned, it came with the bike and still haven't got the chance to change it.
I would never buy sram road again …. I’ve the previous force asx and sram breaks are a pain in the ….to work on and maintain …. Shimano on the other hand like on my new bike keeps working no matter how little I service / clan / maintain them ….not like the sram ones like I mentioned
I'd walk before I'd ride anything with SRAM's logo on it. Not a big fan of Shimano either but will use it if Campagnolo stuff isn't available, which is happening as it seems they cater only to rich people now, unless maybe you're looking at EKAR?
If you could only have one on your bike, which would it be? Did Warren get it right? Let us know down below 👇👇😁
For me, the detachable batteries, are a game changer. You can't swap a Shimano battery if it dies.... you CAN swap a Sram battery if it dies. The braking on Sram groups is similar to that of a car. Something we are used to with our feet. However, I think that comes down to personal preference. When it comes to pad clearance, Shimano wins. When it comes to weight, your test forgot one detail: chainring size. Sram wouldve been even heavier, if you pitted the Sram 50/37 chainrings with that of a 50/34 of Shimano. This was a big flaw in your review, but as Sram was heavier either way, made no difference. Sram also has better mix and match abilities than Shimano. Thats a win that Shimano CANT get at the moment. Personally, Shimanos bigger chainrings, is a win for me, as it's been shown bigger is better in regards to things like that.... OSPWs, crank spindles, bearing sizes, they just all roll better. It may not be noticeable for YOU, but I recently took out my CX bike and put this to the test. I have 4 chainring sizes I use in cross: 40t, 42t, 44t, and a 46t when its a fast flat course. I have even used a 48t chainring in the past. I started with the 40t, and as soon as I was on the 42 t, it was obvious. You can feel the difference. Its important to note that all my cross bikes run 36t cassettes, so this was not variable. It's also important to note that all my crank lengths are the same. All my cross bikes are Trek Boones. One with Red AXS, one with Force AXS, and the third was untested because it is not AXS and might throw the feeling off.(mechanical 12 speed Force/Red 22 CX1 mix via Ratio Technology.) Wheels remained consistent in the test as well opting for Bontrager Paradigm CX tubular wheels with the Challenge Baby Limus Team Edition red walls as a constant variable. This is to say that everything was exactly the same, GXP spindles and all. Wheels Manufacturing BBs, everything. Only difference was the size of chainrings, and the size was able to be felt. It was harder to turn the smaller rings. I think there are 2 reasons for this: one is that to get to the same speeds, you have to pedal faster and/or be in a lower cog on the cassette, as you might on a bigger front ring. You also tend to max out your cogs faster. With the 46t chainring, it was noticeably harder to get going immediately, but once you got the pedals going it was noticeably easier to both speed up, and to hold speed over the smaller 40t ring. Obviously, for cross, a 46t ring is big, and for the above reason might be a deal breaker on a windy course, however, this is why most riders don't go bigger than a 44t. Both the 44t and 42t felt similar at acceleration, the feeling difference was minor, but it was ever so slightly harder to turn the 44t at first, but not enough that on a windy course it would make a difference to me. I know because I ran one of each on both bikes this last season. Hardly noticed any real difference. This being said, the Shimano so called standard compact of 50/34, would be a winner for me on the road since Srams 48/35 is supposed to be about the same thing as far as gearing ratios goes. Finally, the hood shapes. Shimano hoods got much better for me since the new change, and im a fan. Before the new hoods, I never would've ridden the Shimano hoods, they were much too small. My hands couldn't get comfortable, and the mechanical hydro levers my fingers were not happy with the given space. Srams hoods were bigger, which for some is a deal breaker for those with small hands, but you can't please everyone. The ergonomics of the new Sram hoods are great too, especially for smaller hands. However for my hands, the old Force and Red AXS hoods feel much more natural. Using the old hoods of Sram and the new hoods of Shimano, it's a draw for me. The single button on each lever is a win for me as well. One big paddle? Hell yes. The old Sram 22 was great in this way for me as well too, because I often wear gloves, sometimes thicker gloves than other times, and a paddle is a big win for me on those days. And with thick gloves, Sram wins again with the hood shape, Shimano space between the bar drop and the brake lever, is just not quite enough, and while Sram is also a pinch, it's certainly better. Noticeably. All this said, Sram wins for me on almost every metric. I do love both brands, but im a bigger fan of Sram. For me and my riding styles, road, mtb, cross, and anything else with gears, Sram fits my needs better than Shimano. Although that may change through the years. Sram wins for me.
Edit: I just wanted to add that I like the XDr body as well. While it is harder to find cassettes or wheels options, and frustrating you can't use some of your 11 speed wheels without buying new freehub bodies, the system itself I love. The body doesn't getted as marred up by the cassette. You don't have to worry about damaging it by shifting under power. For me, this is yet another win over Shimano.
on the bumpy road, shifting axs more better than di2
Never used SRAM, but I am not tempted either. My LBS mechanic loves SRAM but he says it won't last as well as Shimano in wet conditions. As someone who rides 6x/week all year round, that is a deal breaker. Durability is a key thing for me. My ultegra Di2 hasn't failed me in 3 years of use and the brake mineral oil doesn't fade with time, unlike DOT. This saves on servicing. I also don't like the waste produced by running extra coin cell batteries, or the higher consumable prices for the AXS system. Shimano just seems cheaper to run and I can pick whichever chain I want. Running costs should have been included in the video.
I like the interchangeability of SRAM though, and I definitely run their standard chains, as they last must longer than Shimano.
Whether they one is easier to install than the other, that is irrelevant for most who buy a bike fully assembled. I don't think I will ever mess with the cables until the battery needs replacing.
Gearing wise, I can just buy whichever chainrings/cassettes I want within reason, as long as there is enough adjustment in FD mount. I run a 46/33 at the front (non ultegra ones) and have zero issues. I would never choose a groupset for the gearing, except for the max cassette size of the RD.
SRAM wireless all the way, don’t see the point in Di2 esp. in modern internally routed (all integrated overkill) bikes. Also the fact that SRAM shifter batteries ‘wear’ evenly with right shifter to go down the cassette, left shifter to go up and both to shift the front chainring is genius.
Derailleur batteries interchangeable is a lifesaver to get you home if rear mech battery ‘dies’ mid ride.
What I don’t like about 12sp SRAM is flat top chain. Why SRAM why?! What happened with good old fashioned compatibility with SHIMANO components and 3rd party manufacturers.
As a system I prefer Di2 and buying a new bike I bought an Ultegra 8100 equipped one. Building a new bike I have opted for SRAM Force AXS with power meter purely on cost grounds.
I don't run out petrol in my car or battery on my bikes so not an issue as far as I'm concerned. Batteries are fine with charging once a week although not strictly necessary. Never dropped a chain or had shifting issues with any Shimano group=set but am happy to use either.
One marginal gain of AXS not mentioned - the opportunity of mixing components.
I don't know how marginal this is, as any AXS derailleur will work, but with Shimano there is a different derailleur for 1X and 2X. At this point, Shimano feels like they are a decade behind Sram.
No mention of the additional functionality offered by the Shimano hood buttons? I personally don't like the Sram controls with their fugly paddles, chonky derailleurs and jagged lines of their cranks. Everything on Shimano is more ergonomic and aesthetically pleasing. But we should all be grateful Sram exists otherwise Shimano's rate of innovation would be even slower than it is currently.
I still don't understand the fuss about wireless shifting. Is not like the transmission is going to go one way and the bike another different way. I own both and I have complete wired the Di2 as it provides some advantages vs semi-wireless.
1 - Instant "wake up"
2 - 50% battery range increase. ( I charge every 2000 Km)
3 - Don't need to worry about coin cells on the shifters (I have a pair die without warning midride on my AXS)
The shift speed is noticeable, AXS being slower on front and rear shifting as it has to wait to confirm the double tap on both sifters to decide.
The front shifting of di2 is mind bowling.
+braking = Di2 hands down.
Yeah I never understood the fuss about wireless either. You still need to route the brake housing.
Agree with both of u. Shimano front shifting on di2 12 sp is WOW, brakes and rotors are amazing
Plus the buttons on the hoods!
The other issue with that is higher running costs and more waste produced to simply shift gears. And yet more batteries to check of course.
I already bought a bike fitted with Di2 3 years ago. I won't ever mess with the cables until the battery needs replacing, which is easy enough and won't happen anytime soon. Perhaps a bike mechanic will charge less to fit AXS vs Di2, but that is also a one off expense.
I personally prefer the single button shifters of Sram. Especially for a 1x setup.
Ultegra Di2 on my racing bike. SRAM XX1 AXS on my mountainbike. Can’t say I like one over the other. Both are great groupsets!
Set up is easier but a full wireless drivetrain doesn’t provide any performance benefits. Shimano braking is just better and that’s a deal breaker.
It has to be like that coz of patents.
It provides more drawbacks than benefits. I have my di2 fully wired as that is an option on Ultegra and DuraAce (Not in 105 :( ) It provides:
- 50% range increase, as the sifters don't need to pair to the RD.
- Instant wake up
- Forget about shifters coin cells. all is powered by a single battery.
@@LVTN979 Ultegra and Dura Ace shifters need Coin cells. They aren't connected to the battery. Just the derailleurs are.
@@Daniel01_BHe already mentioned he configured his to run fully wired, so his STI levers don't need button batteries when set up that way.
Di2
Used both and knew immediately I wanted the Shimano. Tactility, speed of shift and keeping front and rear separate won it over for me - I also find the levers on SRAM massive, they're like rowing oars! Your video has a degree of focus on building a bike - we all like tinkering, of course, but how many viewers do full bike builds? This reduces the impact of the fully wirelss set-up with SRAM, for instance.
Shimano having the battery inside the frame usually inside the seatpost means its usually waterproof. I've been in races where the derailleurs of people were failing due to being exposed to too much water in Malaysia/tropical rain conditions using Sram. Shimano Never had an issue
Probably the gasket at the contacts on the derailleurs have gone bad.
Never ever had any problems I wet weather with my sram.
Have been a Shimano user for years, but recently venture into Gravel riding put me in contact with SRAM drivetrain. I really like the versatilities of SRAM ecosystem to mix and match off-road and on-road drivetrain parts.
Most important thing on any drivertrain is shifting performance which,obviously is shimano.
They are not in the same level for shure
I have both. I agree with your comments except in the case of the front mech; here I find Shimano is much better than Sram
I have both - Shimano shifting especially front just feels more slick and braking better modulated. I also prefer the single shifter feel of Shimano. SRAM better for own build and I prefer their battery setup - but if its about the ride (as it should be) it’s Shimano 👍
Thanks, such a comprehensive, informative video!
BikeRadar: "What’s The BEST Electronic Groupset?"
Campagnolo:
RIP🪦
I know it’s subjective, but with the battery tucked away, I prefer the slimmer mechs of Ultegra over Force. Those batteries hanging off the back just doesn’t do it for me. What I would like to see is a black version of Ultegra, as the traditional Ultegra grey doesn’t always colour match the frameset. Keep the grey, but offer a “murdered out” version. After a bit of wear and tear, might be a project to airbrush the Ultegra black! The winner here is anyone who can afford a bike with either of these high-tech gruppos on it.
I prefer the look of Di2 mechs by not having the battery stuck to them. Most of the comments are personal preference and that’s totally understandable as if you are lucky enough to have either of these groupsets, then you are already on to a winner. 12 speeds, electronics, disc brakes (even 105 or Rival) groupsets - how lucky we are, and don’t you forget it.
I own a Tarmac SL7 with 12S Shimano 105 Di2 and I love how it works. At the begining I was planning to upgrade the bike to Ultegra but the 5 is enough for me.
@raulantunano4252 My wife's Pardus Spark Evo has 105 Di2 and it doesn't perform significantly differently from Ultegra 8100. 😃
Excellent Video. I currently ride the Ultegra Di2 Which came with my Bike. I very happy with it and I agree completely about the charging cable. Now as I venture to build my 1st Road Bike I intend to use Sram Force AXS....thanks for the insight!
A big plus for sram is the fact you don’t need to take your bike inside your home for charging (we don’t all have power sockets in our garage!)
Powerbank 😜
I was a Shimano fanboy for over 30 years. I'd just rolled my eyes when anyone in the SRAM cult would rant about how it is better. Well, I now have SRAM on three out of four bikes. It started when I bought a new bike and with the SRAM Red because of the why they work. When my brain is shut down, I'd occasionally hit the wrong button. I guess it doesn't help that I have fairly large hands. So, now I have become what I always hated. I am in the SRAM cult. Although, I would consider a bike with Shimano if I was shopping and got a good deal on it. My brother rides Shimano. So I do get reminded how good it is. Shimano is more...refined (for lack of a better term) while SRAM is a bit more industrial.
I've got a Scott Foil with Rival AXS and a SuperSixEvo with 105Di2. The SRAM is MUCH better. It shifts better, I like the battery setup better, it's quieter, less finicky, and thus far has performed better. But man that supersix just constantly calls me to ride it, it's so comfortable and fast.
Sram shifters are easier with thick winter gloves. Impossible to press the wrong buttons and just more user friendly. 2 buttons rather than 4.
I went to SRAM because I would occasionally hit the wrong button when I am at my limit and my brain is shut down. I don't do that with SRAM.
On long rides you need to eat. Take your food into your left hand and you are still able to shift with your right hand with shimano no matter up or down. That's not possible with SRAM. Battery theft is also small possibility with SRAM. Replacement cogs for the cassette are a big winner for Shimano. That's also not possible with SRAM casettes. And that's the reason the price category is not well thought out in this video. The less efficient smaller cogs was mentioned but not really ratet.
how often you have to eat while you shift? its just not a wise decision to be eating or drinking while you have to shift or brake, and how many times you have to change sprockets? its just not worth changing a couple of sprockets when you can change the whole thing for the same price 😂
Battery theft really dude 😂
@@alannkevin Eating: On Long Audaxes/Brevets very often.
Sprockets are cheap compared to cassettes. Educate yourself.
Theft: Ever lost a front light or tail light after parking your bike at a coffey stop? If the battery is gone, you are done.
and less efficient cogs? dude the top two cycling pro teams ran Sram drivetrains Jumbo Visma and Alpecin and thats with a 10-33t cassette,
@@oliverberger5946 But what are you eating that takes so much time, burgers? You just have to KNOW when to eat and drink, is not worth the risk.
Youll be surprised the good stuff you can find at ebay like “take offs”, because if you have to change a sprocket most likely the rest is about to go too so why not buying the whole thing instead? Is not worth the hassle of taking apart the cassette just to replace two or three cogs.
I’ve never left my bike unattended. Not even for a couple of minutes. I know every single rider in the group so if someone steals something we would cut his hands off 😂, my lights and camera are fixed to the bike computer which is bolted into the handlebar.
Dont get men wrong, I have mechanical 11 speed Dura ace/Ultegra on the gravel and 12 speed Red axs on my madone, nothing beats mechanical Dura Ace though (only red 10 speed) but you can’t deny the fact that AXS Sram has gone way better than Shimano including mountain bike drivetrains, any AXS shifter road is compatible with Eagle and Apex drivetrains so that just buries Shimano 10ft down
Agree batteries on both systems are a none issue. The only people that have issues with battery driven mechs are people that don't own it or never used it.....
I've ridden a bike with Ultegra Di2 R8070 before on a few rides, so let's see if you can guess what's on my bike now.
@@sbccbc7471noone cares
Shimano also offer an external removable battery - the same style as the original di2. You can mount it wherever you want that is accessible.
A newer external battery? I've only seen the original.
@@sbccbc7471 it looks the same just compatible with the new e tubes.
While I love my Shimano Di2 8100 the fact that I needed to buy £50 of cable & connector to get my wireless shifters a firmware update was a minor disappointment as the hoods don’t have the ability to take an update over the air. Once purchased though, it’s a tool that I have for future updates.
5 months into an Ltwoo eR9 11-speed setup and it has the central battery drawback of shimano and the slower shifting of sram. The only thing I have ever had to do is charge the battery twice. On the bike I do not even think about it, it just works. Fantastic for the price.
I have sram e-tap AXS on all 4 bikes iI actually changed one from Dura Ace di2 because sram is so easy to use especially with gloves on and the set up is so easy as well.
1st gen Force eTap AXS is worth considering for less than half the price if you can still find it at closeout prices. I got a complete 2x groupset about a year and a half ago for 800USD.
Truth! I have Red on my road bike and really like it. So, when I built up my new gravel and road bike, I found the old Force for insane prices. I've ridden a bike with the newer version, but the smaller hoods don't make a real difference to me. I have large hands anyway. I actually found the Force for cheaper than Apex is selling for.
Is SRAM offering hood buttons to control your computer now? I didn't hear that mentioned...
For me, that is perhaps the biggest advantage of Shimano over SRAM...
Good point. I have the older version Force. I use a garmin remote to change the screens on my head unit.
Being 5'4" tall, shops never have my size in Ultegra or Force to test ride. That's even the Seattle area. I'll be lucky to find a 105 Di2 to test ride. Hence: Thanks for the video! I'm leaning towards Force.
After using di2 for years I got a bike with sram force etap…. Couldn’t get rid of it quick enough.
I've been using 1 year SRAM XPLR Rival with an eagle shifter. So far never had any problems.
For a Tri Rig things get very different. The wireless nature and ability for the new Force D2 AXS to have up to 6 remote blip switches with zero wires to configure on a Tri bike cockpit is huge, the weight is much improved now on the D2 and with brakes sets like the S900 Aero you get great braking at a reasonable price point.
4:31 there is Ultegra RX Di2 wich a clutch.
Sram is simply unable to make cranks that are not ugly and their gear set-up of 13-teeth difference between chainrings makes no sense, but their wireless design and shift logic are just so much smarter than Shimano's. Usually prefer Campagnolo over both of of them, but when I see them charging 500 quid of a set of batteries for their latest wireless electronic groupset, I'd have to declare them clinically insane.
Do you remember their $200 chain tool from like 2012? I will get Campy when wireless makes it to Chorus. Ergopower is the best lever configuration there is.
Shimano all the way! The braking is important! Battery life is longer & looks cleaner (I've placed outlets a foot off the floor in my garage for working under my car anyway so I don't care the cable length). I've never needed a clutch on the derailleur on my road bike anyway. I use power meter pedals so the meters don't matter. Seems to me sram only really has price & weight to stand on, unless you get shimano as a complete build. Then it's only weight.
better gearing and more intuitive shifting are more important to me so sram is better for me. Not long ago breaking was not important coz "everybody" wanted rim brakes 😅
😅@@Flexo_l
@@Flexo_l do you actually use your hardest gearing? Are you climbing hills that are 25-30%? Seems like without those two parameters, the range improvements are moot. Intuitive shifting? I run ultegra in syncro mode so it's just up & down with cross chaining out of the equation.
@@joekawasaki I'm from the land of Roglic and Pogacar so yes. Hills here are steep. Every local hill has gradients of 20% or more. So it is nice to have climbing gears.
@@Flexo_l I've just moved from 11-28 on my old mechanical to 11-30 on the new electronic set up & have an 11-34 cassette on the way to create a more than I need gear range! Paired with the 52-36 up front I don't imagine needing more!
You forgot the maintenance. Sram always swap maintenance components, which makes it a pain in the ass if you want to do it yourself (purchase of maintenance equipment)
Finally, somebody else that gets the idea.
In just the 21st-century, their road crankset spindle standards have changed twice, from GXP, to 30 mm and the 28.99 mm DUB.
Shimano on the other hand, 24 mm Hollowtech II for a few decades now. If it's not broke, don't try to fix it.
Whichever one is cheapest. They do the exact same thing and both have their flaws. So whichever is cheapest is the one that I'll get. Its that simple.
Sram might be lower, but when you buy the parts separately like chains, cassettes etc have you seen SRAMs prices? Insane! I have Sram rival and the braking is worse than cable actuated brakes. I want to sell my bike after only 1 year and get something with Shimano on it. I won’t buy Sram again! I don’t know how you think SRAM is better. It’s bulkier and uglier too.
You had something wrong or the brakes were not bled properly.
@@DaveCM no, they are still useless noisy with a grinding feel. Were like that from day one. Mechanics have looked at it but exactly the same. I used to have TRP Spyre brakes on another bike and they were better.
Can you do one with 105 di2 vs Sram Rival etap, please
Everyone's a winner. Apart from me as I'm a Campagnolo man with a budget...........
Yeah. I wanted Campy wireless but found out that it is only for Super Record. I only have a Chorus budget.
I don’t care about batteries or wires I care about shifting, braking gears and reliability- the criteria above arnt useful to me
I want to upgrade my 10 speed SRAM Apex gears, derailleur & brakes to something better but not at a cost of more than a bike. Don’t have bottomless budget.
Lot of places selling totally full group sets including cranks these days, where does everyone go these days for parts?
How do people find the shift buttons on Shimano Di2? Any mis shifts? They’re very close together with only a slight difference in height between the two buttons.
Never had a problem with them, I'm not sure if my dexterity level had anything to do with it.
I don't know why ppl say you can't carry a spare battery with Shimano. Why not? it weighs 54 grams and is the size of a pocket pump. A pair of SRAM batteries weighs 48 grams.
I could afford them when i purchase a new bike. However, I wouldn't have the money to replace parts when they start breaking.
Doesnt really matter to me, to be honest I'll buy whatever is cheaper. SRAM if I'm going 1x, Shimano for 2x.
I like how easy it is to swap batteries and run an Eagle setup with SRAM on a gravel bike or mountain bike. I have had to warranty a SRAM XX1 derailleur in the past, but not Shimano so far.
But on road I've noticed every new bike lists its weight as >.5lbs heavier on the Force versions of the bikes with otherwise identical parts. For that reason I'd lean Ultegra on any super expensive bike I am spending a lot on expecting it to be light.
Force crankset looks better IMO, but not that expensive to upgrade Shimano to a DuraAce crankset which is the best looking of all in my opinion.
Aside from which is best why is it that when you look at say a Giant TCR or Trek Emonda the SRAM version is more expensive than the Di2? I believe the Shimano groupset is more expensive than SRAM so surely it should be the opposite.
Sram. I'm on XPLR 1x and it's the best shifting setup I've ever used, and I have Di2 on another bike.
I'm still mystified at how SRAM AXS shifts wirelessly. When I first heard of eTap I knew one day I'd own it. Now that I have it, I haven't noticed slower shifting or worse braking than with my old mechanical DA 9000, but it's way more convenient and easier to use. I'm never going back to Shimano.
SRAM uses what they call Airea (their proprietary wireless protocol, so this isn't Bluetooth or ANT+) encrypted with 128-bit AES encryption.
I have Sram Force but, I switched out the rear cassette from force 10/33 to Red 10/33, Red is a little lighter but for me I doesn't have a black 33 tooth sprocket.
@KenSmith-bv4si I bought the Force cassette precisely because it has the black sprocket and the weight will make no difference to me.
@@gerrymcbride6429 proud of you.
From my experience the SRAM flat top chains are very poor quality, noisy, gunks up faster and is harder to clean. SRAM compatibility with things like indoor trainers where you need to buy separate freehub bodies need to be considered as well. Lastly SRAM brakes are terrible in warm weather and require more frequent servicing / bleeding intervals. The brake rub and constant need to realign rotors will drive you mad. Shimano needs to be awarded 5 points just on their brakes alone!
I got swayed to SRAM on paper specs before such as better / logical interface and less fussy cabling... But seriously I will never go back until the do better brakes and chains.
I’d never buy a force though, I’d go for apex or rival. Can’t say the same for ultegra because it’s the new motors and 105 has the old motors, so there is more of a reason to go for it over 105, whether or not that’s worth it.
I find SRAM ugly compared to Shimano’s (for me at least) more refined aesthetic.
Right, since Sram went 12 speed, their cranks are particularly hideous. Their latest Red cranks looks like a swastika flag and the 2025 Red brake/shift levers have the shape of clipped toe nails. The most hideous is the price of +4000 $/€/£.
Shimano all day. I have one bike with the original first gen di2 that still works. I also have raced on a set of 12 year old shimano saint brakes. Shimano is the toyota pickup of the bike world. Sram just isnt there for longevity yet.
I really like your videos, but you should ad 1 category: maintenance. In this category Shimano is a lot less expensive. new chain + cassette: Shimano is 100 to 150 euro; SRAM 200 euro. Also to change the chainrings SRAM is a lot more expensive.
Mechanical...period. Seamless, cheaper and lighter.
Biggest problem with sram is the battery life. With a single charge on my shimano, my pal's sram needed 3. That's an instant deal breaker for me.
One disadvantage of Sram i did not hear. The batteries are easyer stolen
The tabs break too if you're not careful.
Correct. The matchbox-size batteries conveniently fit into any pocket. In our bike shop we therefore keep the batteries and chargers hidden in the workshop and only hand them out upon sale. If kept on the bike the batteries would also discharge on their own within a few weeks so you have to recharge them frequently, and it takes additional effort to have batteries ready for a test ride. As loveable performance is when all works perfectly with Etap, logistically it's a nightmare.
My experience with shimano groupset from this video is very good overall, just dont like the fact it hasnt got clutch. Rattles too much on uneven pavement. Sram on the other hand nails it with clutch. Just my opinion.
How about front shifting?
Shimano Di2 is faster than SRAM eTap AXS, even with third-generation Di2 (Dura-Ace R9100 and Ultegra R8000 era).
I think you're evaluating products with points that make not the same "weight" in many of users criteria. For exemple, after setting my Shimano or Sram at first use i never used again the app or either... Same for the Battery, you say it's not important because you charge it anytime you ride... it's not the case for everybody and anyone who has used there two know that shimano last for years (exagerate) while sram are often empty. The most important for "performance user" is Performance in firction (winner Shimano) Weight (shimano) and performance in shifts (winner shimano) brakin (winner shimano) ... I used both on many bikes and they are simply not at the same level of performance. Ponderate your criteria and Shimano wins by miles !
Shimano - if you know you know-
they really couldn't do bigger SRAM AXS rear mech?? really ??
Sram parts are so much more expensive than shimano.
In terms of the drivetrain, you're very limited too. Everything there must be compatible with their Flattop chain that sports slightly larger rollers.
SRAM has better battery design, is truly wireless, has better ratios, more mullet friendly
I never understood how the system on SRAM is in any way better?
More bulky, heavier, you have to charge it far more often.
I take the Shimano with one more cable (you have to wire brakes anyways) and one charging every 6 months.
Shimano’s larger sprockets are more efficient, plus what’s your point about a mullet on a 2by lol.
The gear ratios are exactly what makes Sram so much less attractive than Shimano despite its much better shift logic. The big gear is smaller and the small gear much bigger than Shimano's or Campagnolo's. And that's completely ignoring Sram's shit-ugly crank design.
@@einundsiebenziger5488 So many more gearing options available for SRAM. No comparison
@@petersouthernboy6327the gearing ratio sucks tho
Seriously, Shimano mechanical ultegra is the better value, screw the stupid power meter n al really do have all you’ll ever need! My ultegra group set on my Cervelo R3 is the best and still works perfectly from 2014!
Take note of the rear derailleur's barrel adjuster. The plastic sleeve may loosen to the point it just slips around the metal barrel without turning it.
When this happens, replace the barrel adjuster and salvage one from any Shimano rear derailleur from the Ultegra R8000's previous generation. I plan to use the 105 RD-R7000's if mine wears out that way.
Yeah came to see what the modern tech is like, but mechanical works perfectly well, especially as the road bike doesn’t get used for wet rides.
Mechanical group is lighter as well.. still electronic is fun to ride.
Maybe its good news because the last 15 year bike lot .cannot change tube in less than 15mins at road side cannot adjust cable brakes or sync gears. ride with 15 club lads every week ..they are lost when comes to common sense basic machanics most clubs are the same 😂
They absolutely can't ride alone, just like how a lone person can't survive in a jungle.
I own both, new Sram force and ultegra 12speed di2...
1)Shimano charging is not a problem but rather easy to use and last alot longer than Sram batteries..
2)braking power is far superior with Shimano plus they use mineral oil
3)ultegra is slightly lighter than Sram force
4)shifting is still faster with Shimano compared to the new sram force so I don't know why he gave both systems credit on the comparison chart..lol
5) when it's connected who really cares about an ap...lol
6)the only thing I like over Shimano when using Sram is the gearing(10-33 casettte is so sweet)..
7)my mechanic connects all my wireless(sram etap and di2) for me so that's never a problem 😅
very nice report but you need to slow down your talking speed by at least 15% so we can digest the info as you say it. Take a breath!
Shimano for life.
The only reason doing comparisons like this is click bait.
The points in some categories are so random and and unqualified it makes me angry.
But i look at this video, like other people do and the click bait works.
But i dont think, videos like this makes people happy.
I dont know where the pricing come, but from bike24:
Ultegra: 1530€ discounted from 1828€
Force: 2027€ discounted from 2840€.
Sram even with bigger discount its still more expensive then Simano's RRP, thats why bikes cheaper with ultegra! And its not even like for like, as the sram misses the brake rotors. He compared to Dura Ace prices: 2.806€ discounted from 3.449€.
The rest is opinnion based, the sram extra hardness of gears count for 1 less revolution at 60km/h (98 vs 99) probably shimano is more efficient by that much as well, on the other hand giving a point for a couple of grams looks just as pointless, they probably are to close to call, except for the price, and thats exactly what is wrong in this video.
... more expensive than* / opinion* based / too* close to call
independent batteray is better..
If, IF electronic is better? Why not wireless "brakes"? Clearly "electronic" is just a marketting gimmick.
The answer to the question is campagnolo super record … the others are a compromise
As a Campy user for over 30 years and great fan of its mechanical shift logic that allows you to use your pinky for upshifting when climbing with your hands on the upper bars, I can't feel any love for this company anymore when I see the asking price for a set of batteries for their latest wireless groupset is 500 bucks.
Ask GPLlama at your own risk about Shimano power meters. (Spoiler: he finds them… LACKING.)and DCRainmaker doesn’t have a better opinion either.
Tried both and went back to mechanical. Just too much money for too little gain.
Shimano simply shifts better. Very noticeably so.
Both very nice. However, save your cash and get 105 mechanical 12 speed. Then go on a nice cycling holiday 😊
And forever wonder why your front shifting sucks.
@@thedownunderverse Lol, I guess you never learnt how to set up your bike properly or learnt how to shift.
LBS must have loved you.
@@JibbaJabber I’m a bike mechanic 15 years. Front shifting has always been finicky (until Di2).
@@thedownunderverse Agreed. Di2 is better. Mechanical FD setup can be finiky, esp if you don't respect the process. But once you know what to do, it works like a charm and is not far behind. Super slick with no drops. After this, problems normally only arise from non series parts, poor maintenance or just terrible shifting protocol.
@@JibbaJabber 😀 1x mechanical, sure all good. Mechanical front derailleur though is a nightmare even if you get it perfect- cable stretch, component wear, plus the need for technique with the shift paddle/cadence is a recipe for disaster. Di2 is a game changer for the front derailleur. And when we get to 13sp and 14sp drivetrains electronic will be almost a prerequisite for the micro adjustability of the rear mech too. 👍🏻
I like Shimano, only because of the look, SRAM looks like it's Chinese knock off of something.
Sram = clunky, slow, shitty front derailleur that drop chain, noisy etc etc
im going shimano
Not close really axs is better every way shape and form. Plus cranks don't suck. Power meters work
😂
@@stfupansies so your power meter works? Your cranks have not failec?
Speaking of "shape and form", this is exactly where Sram fails miserably. Sram cranks are ugly as hell, the latest Red crank even looks like is has a built-in swastika, and the 2025 Red brake levers look like clipped toe nails.
PRICES ARE CRAZY STUPID...I have r8000 whole groupe and only thing I miss is autotrimming. They ripp us af. Hope china product will save our wallets with their electronic gropusets
Electronic shifting. The answer to a problem that didn’t exist.
For most people, yes. Except for those with chronic hand injuries. Electronic is the difference between riding a bike or not, although that rarely gets mentioned in the media.
Just another random comparison generating clicks and battling comments. 😅
However for to charge shimano you can to use simply a small powerbank! Wake up!
I can't imagine anything worse than having to charge up batteries to go out and ride a bike.
but for powermeter, cadence sensor, heart rate sensor, bike computer, radar light, smart phone you can?
I couldn’t agree more. Mechanical = reliable
@@antoinedoinell Well said mate... Isn't a bicycle about simplicity and getting away from things that need recharging....
@@Flexo_l don't have power, nor cadence, hr is not mandatory for a ride even if it dies on the ride and it lasts for a year or so, Garmin is charged ones in 10h of riding, don't have radar lol, and phone is something else. But XX1 axs on my MTB is THE MOST ANOYING THING a have ever owned, it came with the bike and still haven't got the chance to change it.
I would never buy sram road again …. I’ve the previous force asx and sram breaks are a pain in the ….to work on and maintain ….
Shimano on the other hand like on my new bike keeps working no matter how little I service / clan / maintain them ….not like the sram ones like I mentioned
Sram* brakes* (!) are a pain in the butt.
Or Campy? Christ!
Shimano discontinued Hammerhead access 👎👎👎 that's a big minus as it's my only computer
I'd walk before I'd ride anything with SRAM's logo on it. Not a big fan of Shimano either but will use it if Campagnolo stuff isn't available, which is happening as it seems they cater only to rich people now, unless maybe you're looking at EKAR?
Shimano di2 better than Sram
Your are talking too much. Please come faster to your final result. Thanks
... too* much
Does it matter? Blasphemy!
sram looks better
Yawn, overpriced and unnecessary. Give me a Microshift, LTWOO, or Sensah groupset over the highway robberies that sram and shimano offer any day
Coming to an illegal police station near you.
Shimano is always going to be better, that other brand is a shit Brand and they lie out there ass ...