Thanks for a good and accurate video. The 30-30 is my choice for most North American hunting purposes. It has worked well on deer, moose, elk, and bear hunts within 100 to 150 yard hunts. Shot placement, bullet construction, and distance are the key factors. The 45-70 is a fantastic cartridge for both medium and tough large game, if you are comfortable with the recoil and the "softball " trajectory of the cartridge.
I love both and have both. As I get older I find the .45-70 to be my first go to though. I hunt mainly public land and I like to put deer down with authority and have much less of a need to have to track a heart lung shot buck. Plus I find the slower moving heavy bullets don’t actually destroy as much meat on my harvested deer. I’ve taken deer with both and cannot speak ill of either choice, but my favorite is my .45-70 Marlin 1895 SS.
I love my GBL....first muley buck I took with it was shooting downhill about 75 yards....hit square in the chest he flipped over and embedded his antlers in the soil....they don't jump up and run away after getting hit with that big ass bullet..
ME TOO -- BUT MY CRAZY LITTLE BROTHER LOADS A 165 gr HARD CAST IN HIS 30-30 -- SHOT A 375lb ELK THRU THE RIB CAGE -- HIT NO RIBS & WENT CLEAN THRU IT - WALKED 15 HESITANT STEPS & STOPPED & FELL OVER -- SAW IT WITH MY OWN EYES -- I WOULDNT TRY IT BUT THERE YA GO -- SON USES A 405gr HARDCAST AT JUST OVER 1500fps IN HIS MARLIN BY THE DOOR GUN OUTSIDE OF ANCHORAGE --
30-30 ive used for years. I've never tried the other one. But the fact that I'm used to a 30-30 and I've never had an issue with it. I'll just stick with it.
30-30 ammo is about half as expensive as 45-70, which means you can shoot more in terms of both number of rounds and reduced fatigue. Proficiency over power wins in my book with a round that can take care of 95% of predators and prey in the lower 48. In the world I want to live in, I'd have Henrys of both calibers in my armory. :)
The general rule about affordable and sustainable 45-70 is that you should buy a bag of brass or buy a few boxes of factory ammo to start, then reload it for the future. 45-70 has fantastic economy appeal once you get past the initial investment. Especially if you cast your own bullets, which I think is a skill any 45-70 fan should have a go at at least once.
@@NatureBetsLast if one wants to stick with jacketed, then sure nothing wrong with them. 45-70, and 30-30 are awesome cast boolit calibers if you are into self-sustenance, and 45-70 can easily be loaded with black powder which can be made at home along with the cast boolits. Much rather shoot an elk with a 45-70, than a 6.5-anything.
This is really good information. I totally agree that the 45-70 recoil is very manageable, even in the hotter loads. When I was shopping for a 45-70, several of my hunting friends warned me "you must love pain" or "it will break your shoulder!" I don't find the kick any worse than 7mm 150 gr loads. I'd much rather shoot 45-70 with 325 gr than a 12 gauge with 3" slugs or 3.5" turkey loads.
I think the "kicking" lore is in reference to the old Springfield carbine. It will handle .45 - 70 but is chambered for .45 - 55, which most people do not know.
Are you referencing the fact that the Army started using the 45-55 instead of full power 45-70 ammo in the lighter cavalry carbines to mitigate recoil in those rifles?
Idk. I had a Marlin 1895 CB I purchased around 2018. Despite its very long octagonal barrel (I believe it was 28" long if memory serves me) it was very VERY lightweight - lighter than my Marlin 336 with 20" barrel was. Firing Hornady LeveRevolution 325gr FTX out of that gun put a serious beating on my shoulder.
I'll take the 30-30. It does what I need done and doesn't beat the snot out of me in the process. It's the 1894 version of the 6.5 Creedmoor. Thanks for the vid.
Excellent presentation, thanks. I am a big fan of both the .45-70 Govt. and the 30-30 Winchester. Recently, I became the owner of a like new Model 71 Winchester in .348 Win. This is one super strong lever gun which, in my estimation, will out preform both afore mentioned cartridge, lever guns. I now hand load for all of them and enjoy shooting all my lever rifles. My next project involves the 1895 Winchester in 30-06.
I too have the .348 Winchester, that cartridge case is on of the most wildcat cartridge cases ever, too start with there are at least two improved .348 cartridges, then the 450 ( .458) and later the .50 caliber cartridges , there was a 30 caliber cartridge, a .40 caliber, 416, 375 caliber cartridges.
I have both calibers in Marlin lever rifles. I am in southeast usa and hunt deer and hogs for large game. The 30-30 is a good choice for our situation instead of 45-70. I also use a Marlin 1894 in 44 magnum which is an awesome little rifle. I grab that rifle quite often. Having a 30-30 around is a good idea. Ammo is usually available and doesn't break the bank. I do keep an 1895GS with my brother in AK for trips up there. I use is as a bear protection rifle when in the bush up there.
This was a truly informative and impressive presentation of a subject that is rarely treated. I'm not a hunter, but instead, a target shooter. Our state championships for lever action silhouette a few years back consisted of two 40 shot matches in a day. For the three types of guns that we shoot, the match would go for 3 days, one day shooting a rifle cartridge (a .30-30 for me) rifle, another day for a pistol caliber rifle, and a final day for .22LR rifle. When shooting 80 shots for the title, that cumulative recoil can take its toll. However, the recoil from a .30-30 is mild enough for a teenager to be competitive.
Glad you enjoyed it John! That's a good point you make about recoil. I've noticed that it can take a toll on me as well just on a regular day at the range sometimes.
I used to live in Colorado, but had to move back to the midwest. Planning on doing a couple of Alaska trips in the future. Also hunting Montana this year for Elk and Mule deer.
@@Thebiggamehuntingblog I'm going to be using a kimber hunter in .308 for montana. A 45-70 would be for when I back up my buddy on a future bear hunt we have planned
I’m getting my son a 45-70 for his birthday because he loves Springfield trapdoors and we live in St. Louis Missouri but my dad and granddad own some land down in west plains Arkansas about 40 acres and we go down there to hunt
If you don't hand load, pick the .30-30. If you do hand load, the .45-70 is a very versatile round. From round ball 'cat sneeze' loads to 500+ grain monster-masher loads, the .45-70 can do it all...but the heavy loads really aren't necessary for deer hunting. A 330 grain cast hollow point from a Lyman #457122 mold cast with 30-1 alloy and loaded to 1500 fps will give Bambi a very bad day, and felt recoil is not bad at all. I can easily shoot 50 rounds in practice without feeling beat up, and I'm in my 60's.
My .50 cal. muzzle loader has better external ballistics than that. There are reasons behind the change from 45/70 to other firearms in the past. The 45/70 is a great round but is a pumpkin thrower, it's advantage is in bullet mass so a good range finder is necessary to be accurate at different ranges.
@@russellkeeling9712 In doing load development for 45-70, what I've discovered is that any of the heavy bullets, 405 gr or heavier, at about 1600 fps have an easily managed arc. If you'll sight in about 2.5" high at 100 yards, that'll get you to about 165 yards or so without having to adjust holdover for white tails, black bears, or pigs. If you wanted to go after something bigger, like a moose, sight in about 5" high at 100 yards, and you'll be about 5" below point of aim at 200 yards, well within the vital zone on a moose at any distance out to 200 yards.
In its original 70 grain black powder leading, the 45 70 was actually a pretty wimpy load compared to loads used by muzzleloaders of that time period. Granted, it is almost a completely different round using today's smokeless powder loadings, but I wanted a big bore rifle using heavy bullets in today's world, there are better options, none of which involve the use of a lever action rifle.
45-70 with 325 grn FTX bullets loaded to about 1900 fps is my go to deer round. It's accurate, lighter recoil but going fast enough at 100 yds for reliable expansion.
@@Thebiggamehuntingblog i like 30-30(I haven’t shot a 45-70) but I’m a sucker for lever actions I want to hunt with it but I’m using a .243 that I’ve had for a long time
30-30 with lever evolutions has recoil but nothing like a single shot 12ga high brass heavy slug. But neither does the 45-70. Certainly does release more kick back but it's very manageable, there's more kickback with the heaviest rounds loaded with the best powder to the maximum of safe levels but even the lighter weight 444 marlin has more kick back. All in all figure a Henry h024 side gate (only bcuz I have one so can personally attest) when you empty the rifles 7 rounds you absolutely feel it using the 160gr lever evolutions. The marlin 95' 45-70 firing 5 rounds (modern loading) after you empty each rifle the 45 leaves only slightly more "feeling" of shooting a proper cartridge, the 30-30 is slightly smoother for quicker crisp highly accurate fire. Both cartridges are extremely well renowned respected and TRUSTED for good reason. You get generations get caught up in marketing saying the 30-30 is near useless for grizz, moose, elk....yet actually it's very well documented dropping many charging massive grizzlies sometimes with a single shot in the skull. In the real world the 30-30 with real practice/experience is phenomenal and still trusted to this day, only those who do not own one or any actual experience seem to disrespect the legendary cartridge and it's absolutely perfect balance. The 45-70 is one hell of a power house, and in my own opinion I agree feel more secure to carry in grizz territory. But the ballancing factor is up to 3 less rounds ready to go in the guns, and slightly harder for quick accurate follow up shots. Both rounds have very much earned my respect. But all in all, modern rounds and rifles I still would choose the 30-30 for 90% of our country. Only up in Alaskan territory would I honestly want to have the 45-70 slung over my shoulder.
Good video. I've got rifles chambered for both calibers and have been successful hunting with them. Both are plenty of rifle for any game east of the Mississippi river and out to say 100 yards + or - At the end of the day it will always be the shooter that determines how effective the cartridge will be. And that's much more important than the caliber of your weapon.
The first questions should be,..........what are you hunting for? and where are you hunting?........With the possibility of Bear and the increased sighting of Big foot and Skinwalkers lurking around, I would choose the .45/70......
I have both, and love them both. Different tools for different jobs. Now me personally. I like the 44-70 better, much more versatile cartridge. But that's just my opinion.
30-30. Reasonably priced ammo. Easy to control. Short to medium range works for just about any table game. Effective on all but biggest dangerous game in North America.
"Reasonably priced ammo"? Have you checked the prices these days for 30-30 ammo? It costs just as much as 45-70 ammo now, sometimes even more expensive! The Hornady LeverEvolution costs the same for 30-30 ($47.99 per box) as 45-70, and so does the Buffalo Bore 30-30 ($103.99 per box for 30-30 Buffalo Bore, not a misprint -- that's $5.20 per round!). Also 30-30 is even less available than 45-70, very scarce ever since 2020, nearly impossible to find anywhere!
@@DavidHartenWatson Yup I saw that today on Midway USA. Those exact prices. I just got a 30-30 and I couldn’t find 30-30 in any of my local gun shops. Is it possible that isn’t going the way of the Dodo bird? Hope not, but it’s getting very expensive and harder to find.
In lever actions, I use both plus the .348 and .405, the later two are my overall favorites in a lever gun. Good review on two classic American hunting cartridges.
I have a 450 Marlin and that cartridge will withstand higher pressures. With the 450 round Hornady makes a 300 gr. Flextip that is good for deer. If you can find it, the 350 gr. soft point is a great round for big bad game. We also loaded some 300 gr. hard cast lead that will take out a small tree.
Just for fun, I chopped down a few small trees with a 357 magnum. Pick a proper load, it will fully penetrate a small tree with no problem. A few more rounds and down it goes.
I have a 30-30, 35 Rem, 444 Marlin, and a 45-70, all Marlins. I like each one, and have taken feral hogs with each, but none of them has my confidence like the 45-70 with 405gr bullets. The more I use it, the better it gets.
I’ve harvested many deer with the 30-30 in the Marlin and Winchester rifles. I am yet to hunt with my new Henry 45-70 but will take it to the field this November here Missouri where we normally hunt in wooded areas where 30 to 100yard shots are more likely. Another great explanation of these two great old calibers. Thanks!!!
The 45-70 is the most popular grizzly defense rifle in Alaska bar none. Jim West @ Wild West Guns always has a huge backorder for his takedown 45-70 rifles. I myself always had a Marlin 1895 18.5" w/Buffalo Bore 430gr hard cast bullets whenever I was camping, canoeing, or hiking in Brown Bear country.
I have two 30-30 lever actions a 72 Marlin 336 and a Mossberg 464 SPX I love both rifles. They both have put meat on the table reliably from my property. I have shot the 45-70 but I don’t own one but I’m always looking to change that. But for my needs the 30-30 is all I need.
I liked your video but you should have said the 30 cal Winchester is a great medium powered cartridge, as it was designed to be, a little more powerful than the 7.62x39mm AK round developed 50 years later.. Considering when it was designed it was brilliant. It was designed for John Browning's lever action carbines. No wonder it sold millions and people still use it. It's still good! If you're a farmer, rancher, woods hunter, or stagecoach driver it's still a good rifle. Stagecoach drivers are gone but there are many who have similar occupations and a light easy to handle powerful enough carbine is still a good choice.
I'm not sure the 30-30 was designed as a medium cartridge. It is now a medium cartridge but at the time it was, I believe, the highest velocity rifle. It was one of the first to shoot smokeless powder causing it to be quite powerful for its day.
"I liked your video but you should have said the 30 cal Winchester is a great medium powered cartridge, as it was designed to be, a little more powerful than the 7.62x39mm AK round developed 50 years later.." That quote makes no sense at all. The .30-30 wasn't designed to be "a little more powerful" than anything developed 50 years later. It was designed to deliver all of the power and trajectory flatness a typical sport could make use of in a world where telescopic sights weren't in widespread use by American hunters, and deliver those attributes without an excess recoil penalty. "Considering when it was designed" means considering that American hunters of that time were men who shot with metallic sights and lever-action repeating rifles. When the .30 WCF hit the market, it was considered by people like Theodore Roosevelt to be "flat shooting" and "hard hitting" and compared to everything else in widespread use by American hunters, it was the .300 Weatherby Magnum of its era. In North American Game Trails, Roosevelt gives the .30-30 the same kind of high praise that post-war gun scribes showered on the .300 Weatherby Magnum: "Never before has their been a sporting cartridge that shoots this flat and hits this hard at distance." "No wonder it sold millions " No wonder. When the .30-30 came out, it was amazing that you could sight on a pronghorn's spine at 275 yards and kill it stone-cold dead with one shot.
30-30 all the way. It's a great weapon that a youth can handle and will get the job done. I usually hunt with a 7mm Rem Mag that my wife got me for Father's Day nearly 20 years ago. I've killed a lot of deer with it but it will never kill as many as my old model 94 that I carried as a youngster. It was my G-grandfather's and was passed down through the family. I'm getting a bit long in the tooth and plan on using "Old Betsie" this year. Anytime I've carried it I've always seen really nice bucks and laid a good number of them to rest. It's time to reconnect and I'm sure looking forward to opening day this coming Saturday. Best of luck to all of you hunters. May you take a buck that dreams are made of this year!
Great video and analysis… Thanks for sharing! I simply prefer the lever action over any other long gun when out in the field hunting or for security out in the open wilderness. It’s lightweight and fast handling and you can easily keep topping off as you roll along. I probably would stick with the 3030 cartridge as I keep everything under 120 yards. At that distance, I think the 3030 is very capable of any large dangerous game.
I just want to say that your video on these two iconic cartridges is refreshing in it's complex analysis of recommendation for a given application or shooter. So often people ask "which is better or the best" cartridge. The answers, if honestly assessed and given, are varied and complex. While the 45-70 is my favorite and the best choice for me as a shooter, for where I hunt, what I hunt and how I hunt, the 30-30 is often the better choice for a different shooter with different needs. In the end, thank you for your accurate and honest analysis, comparison and recommendations.
What I think is more interesting is .44 mag compared to the 30/30 since lever guns if used with iron sights tends to be best under 150 yards. With my big fst sights that are nice and fast 100 yeards is pushing things but it doesn't matter in eastern forest.
This is the one that I'm having the hardest to choose from. 44 vs 30-30. Which one is better? 44 has better capacity while 30/30 would be more accurate + longer range.
@@Thebiggamehuntingblog Alaska area and Alberta previously for elk hunts I used 235 grains for deer and 250 for elk and for bear I use 300-350 anything smaller than a deer I use 220 swift I do have a 300 wby mag but I still prefer for under 150 yards I prefer stopping power of 375 hh magnum I used a 458 Lott for grizzly but I inthe 375 magnum with modern loads is far superior but I've hunted many places as well as Utah and few places in africa would love to talk and discus more about my hand loads and recoil control as I find some today aren't accurate as they flinch but I grew up with a 35 whelen and 303 lee Enfield haha and I didn't know anything for shotguns onless it was 10 gauge till my late 20s but I'd be interested in your view on different calibers as you are well spoken and highly recommended
@@Thebiggamehuntingblog but I also had a few scares early in hunting career and have since always opted for more stopping power specially against moose and bear as I've seen a moose take a full mag of 300 win mag before it went down with proper shots too so I tend to like knockout power shot instant down rather than run off and nothing has ran on me with a 375 magnum in my hands and I've dropped a bear point blank in full charge as we spooked it but as I said before I'd be interested to get more information together
In South TX the .30-30 is the much better choice in terms of ammo and rifle availability/price and lower recoil. It easily gets the job done on all the wildlife encountered locally. Not knocking the .45-70 but you just really won’t need the extra power and the recoil that comes with it
One of my first rifles was marlin 30-30 shoots as great today as it did 40 years ago, do not have 45-70 if I would have known MD was changing it's hunting regulations to adopt the straight wall cartridges to be used state wide might have purchased one years ago. I now have so many choices in straight wall cartridges and gun configuration the 45-70 is almost obsolete
I have a Henry in 45-70, it’s a fun gun to shoot. It is primarily my Hog gun. I use 325gr Hornady, but do have some 405gr on hand. I can bang steel with ease out to 200 yards but I zero it at 100 yards.
for all the 45-70 handloaders out there, assuming you don't cast your own, I think the best deal going for heavy bullets (405 gr) may be Missouri Bullet company. Just ordered my 4th box of 200 from them, and including shipping, the bullets end up costing 31 cents each. Pretty good deal. I've killed several deer and hogs with those, but any more, I just use those for target practice. Accuracy is excellent out of my Remlin 1895 GBL.
I saw a writer mention that in most modern 45-70; Ruger no1, Marlin 1895, etc that the limiting factor on performance is what the shooter can handle for recoil. And most factory loads are downloaded because of the old trapdoor rifles. Most reloading manuals have different data for trapdoor or modern rifles. My brother has a 30-30, I want a 45-70 and have been waiting over a year for a Henry in that caliber.
I just love lever guns. I have six right now and they’re all fun to tinker with. The 250 savage is the smallest caliber and the 86 in 45-70 would be the biggest. I do love options . Lol Good video though.
Isn’t it a shame some of the best cartridges have limited availability? I’d love to have a .444 Marlin, but finding ammo for my .35 Rem Marlin is hard enough. So if I was to get a big bore I’d probably just get a 45/70 gov. I’m also thinking of the 7mm/08 Remington, one of the best cartridges for modern deer rifles there is.
I think the .444 has too much recoil but still a very effective game getter. I'm in my 70's with spinal disc damage in my neck. As much as I love my 35 Rem. it stays in the gun safe lately. Anything that recoils more than my 30-30's or 6.5x55 Swede gives me serious neck and shoulder pain.
@@grayman7208 My .444 Marlin does not shoot pistol bullets. Mine is not a lever action. In 218 I harvested my elk from a distance of 266 yards with my .444 Marlin. The bullet passed completely through the animal, it did not take one more step and I was able to eat the meat right up to the wound channel. 240 grain bonded bullet at 2400 feet per second. Who knows how fast the bullet was going when it hit the animal but it didn't matter. Mass means a lot.
I have and really like both, but the .45-70 is the easy choice if I could only have one. It can go from 300 grain cast “plinkers” at 1000 fps all the way up to 430 grain cast or 405 grain jacketed at 2000 fps. I cast all my own and generally live somewhere in the middle.
Look on Brand Used Works for some 35 Rem. ammo. My friend just put a bunch of lever gun ammo up for auction. The .35 Rem. should come up in May or June.
Have not used but prefer the 45/70 as practical but what is best for long range as mile or two and what is Reange of the sharps 90 /110 or 45/70 compesrd to the Winchester 1886 45)70
I'll get a .348 Winchester Lever Action instead. This way, I get the best of both world's: power, flat trajectory, field and heavy bush hunting with moderate recoil.
What aoout the 190 grain 30-30 hard cast which is known to kill tigers made by Buffalo bore Ammo and is known to be be more potent than the 303 savage. A missionary killed many A Tiger with this round T
My youngest brother and my Dad both have a Marlin 336 in 30/30 so I want my own lever gun and I want to hunt Ohio soon so I would go 45/70 since they and some other states are straight wall cartridge only states. If they would allow or make exceptions for the 30/30 and other bottleneck lever gun cartridges I would have to go with the 35 Rem and reload.
I love and have both. I originally had the Marlin 336 in 30-30. I've taken a bunch of white tailed deer with it living in New England. Since moving out west, I now hunt with a 300 Win Mag, mainly because it is hard hitting in the longer distances we have to shoot out here. I took a 8 pt. mule deer at 402 yards in the mountains. However, I hunt and camp on horseback in Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming, and I always carry a Ruger Redhawk 44 Mag and the Marlin 1895 GBL in 45-70. Same is true for my Alaska trips. Fortunately, I have not had to fire the Marlin in self defense, but I'm sure it will get the job done if required. Since I'm not hunting, in the Ruger and Marlin, I only carry Buffalo Bore Ammunition. (45-70 Magnum - Lever Gun Ammo - 405 gr. J.F.N.(2,000fps/M.E.3,597 ft.lbs.) and 44 Magnum +P+ Ammo - 340 gr. Hard Cast, L.F.N. - G.C. (1,425 fps/M.E. 1,533 ft. lbs.))
I think the you would use would be determined by whether or not you're into Overkill I mean either one of those on a squirrel would make him explode course now if it was a polar bear I'd take the bigger one but it's up to you which one you'd like to use
Great info mate. Well done and keep up the great work, up in Darwin in the Northern Territory we always go with 4570 govt, it’s good for for dropping water buffaloes 👍
I have to say that ever since my first encounter with a Springfield Trapdoor rifle when I was 17 (now 74), I've been hooked on the 45-70. I have several rifles in that caliber from lever actions Marlin and Henry, to a single being a Sharps. I like the cartridge and feel that it is as versatile as the 30-06 (my second long range love affair), when it comes to realistic range and size of game.
The 45-70 is my go to round for whitetails. Yes it is over kill, but my woods are young and very thick with every type of thorn bush known. I don’t like leaving my own blood trail tracking deer, so I love dropping them where they stand (preferably near the electric right-of-way). My hunting rifle is a Siamese Mauser which can handle the hottest recommended loads. However, I also shoot a number of antique 45-70 rifles and note that the black powder loads do just about as well in the 100 yard range.
First of all I like to thank you for this video very informative my dear hunt on my own property in a thick woods so the best shot I'll ever get is maybe 30 yards but I still like the 45-70 because of the thick brush and I really like the new CVA and 4570
There have been several over the years, but the 35 Remington (.358 caliber) is probably the most popular. It's likely #3 in popularity today behind the 30-30 and 45-70 among lever action cartridges.
Both are great 150 yard guns. Both are chucks of lead. I'd say pig 45/70 and deer 30/30. But you can use both. I shot a doe at 150 yards with a uberti Creedmoor 45/70. Tang Creedmoor iron sight. Dropped that doe on contact. Clean kill. Lights out. No following or chasing. Didn't tear up the meat either.
I hunt in Scandinavia with my 45-70 and have taken moose, fallow and roe deer plus wild boar with my Marlin 1895 SBL. Love the rifle and caliber which is plenty accurate enough for my needs. I’ve never owned a 30-30 but I do have a nice .308 which is also a good all round cartridge. This year I decided to spice things up a bit with a Sauer 303 in 9,3x62 Mauser. Ever tried a 9,3?
The 30-30 is a family tradition in a lot of places in the US. Good starting caliber for young shooters with a 125gr or reduced recoil 150gr. Also good for left handed shooter too. Wife took here first whitetail buck, with her Father's Marlin 30-30 lever action. She was 14 at the time. Our oldest daughter shot her first deer last year ( she was 14 ). The old rifle continues to serve us well and fills the freezer. It you reload, the 30-30 can be reloaded for less then the 45-70. Of course having a 308, really covers a lot of the same ground that the 30-30 does, with room to spare. Good luck in the woods this year.
Well the 45/70 is number 1 more power and penetration and better bullet selection so wider range of use. The 30-30 is just great at common range's and more accurate a choice of 3 bullets. The 444 marlin is more accurate I'm guessing you have a choice of 3 bullets and that limits your use 444 marlin has the range and accuracy.
I have a Marlin .30-30 and like it fine within it's limitations. Mostly I've hunted with a BLR .308, if Ive wanted more I have an accurate Mauser 7.92x57. Have never needed anything larger, and frankly, if I did, well, "One should never be where one does not belong"... I'd be doing a mag dump with my FN-FAL...
This was a great topic and very well explained was just talking about this?subject a couple days ago. I would really like to hear this also laid out between the 30-30 and the 243? Especially on the difference between calibers showing energy density? My experience having both the 243 easily out ranges the 30-30 in accuracy but it has a seriously lack of ability of killing power compared to the 30-30. With my 243 more often than not i always had a tracking job after shooting a deer and usually you couldn't even tell the deer was hit. However not once with the 30- 30 was they a doubt a deer was hit as most times it would knock them off their hooves. In the least case they would jump straight up and bow up before trying to run the most 40 yards they might make. This has become a big deal for me and i got rid of my 243 despite the fact I could make very accurate shots out to 400yd with a 6.5 to 24 BSA Contender scope. Another big issue with 243 I found it almost useless in forest hunting due to deflection of projectile but very good hunting over open field. Where my 30-30 was excellent in forest hunting shooting clear through bushes and still hit where you aim. Even though 30-30 give up some range it still was effective in open field out to 250 yds with great stopping power.
30-30 is a great hunting round for almost anything in the woods. But if I didn't have either I would pickup a versatile 300blackout and a 45-70 for anything bigger than Elk
What would be interesting is a lever cartridge around .35 loaded to around 165-200 grains and 2500-2700 fps and a full 60,000-65,000 psi. This should give a nice short round so there is a decent round count. A gun that was designed a a traditional looking lever action with a high quality aperture sight run at the rear even if its off the bolt with nice fiber optics up front. I think that there is still a place for lever guns. A short fat round like that isn't going to be long range but the extra bore diameter would really squeeze as much power possible out of a small compact cartridge and would do really well in short barrels with a good round count still. A person could drop in some heavy rounds for some ok stopping power. It would be nice and flat out of 200 yards and perfect for deer. Now that I have thought about it I want one. Maybe I can call it the 9mm Storm. Lol. Nothing carries like a little lever carbine. If you can get 7 rounds in a 16" barreled 5 lb gun you would have a perfect package for eastern hunting for those that are ok with open sights. Putting optics on a lever gun is a crime. I wish Taurus was a bit better with their little guns since that horrible safety can be removed for a nice little aperture sight although with the non standard dovetails I had to shim the front sight to get a "Meh" fiber sight. Since the little guns were built in .454 that runs at 65,000 irc they should take the pressure. Really maybe is as simple as seeing what the max length could fit and necking down the .454. A short blunt 9mm isn't going to hold the speed but it's going to be nice and flat out to where you need a lever gun. Well now I have a project to chase.
Or you could get s savage 99 chambered for 358 Winchester, scope it or not, and pretty much meet your qualifications and have performance out to 300 yds. You can load it with bullets from 150 to 250 grain to meet any need you find.
A browning BLR might be easier to find in 358, and do all the same things. The 358 is a wonderful cartridge, particularly with 180, 200, and 225 gr loads, and velocities in the 2500-2700 range.
Good luck loading the .35 up to 2,700 fps. Those pressures are far in excess for any .35 caliber lever gun is capable of holding. Those 55,000 - 65,000 psi loads are in the design realm of a heavy bolt action design.
Don't bother picking either one ; you won't be able to get more than a box of either ammo. Its not on someones approved ammo list. Either gun will look cute sitting mty in a corner of the cabin. Big game will understand.
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Thanks for a good and accurate video. The 30-30 is my choice for most North American hunting purposes. It has worked well on deer, moose, elk, and bear hunts within 100 to 150 yard hunts. Shot placement, bullet construction, and distance are the key factors. The 45-70 is a fantastic cartridge for both medium and tough large game, if you are comfortable with the recoil and the "softball " trajectory of the cartridge.
I love both and have both. As I get older I find the .45-70 to be my first go to though. I hunt mainly public land and I like to put deer down with authority and have much less of a need to have to track a heart lung shot buck. Plus I find the slower moving heavy bullets don’t actually destroy as much meat on my harvested deer. I’ve taken deer with both and cannot speak ill of either choice, but my favorite is my .45-70 Marlin 1895 SS.
I agree, there is so much less capillary damage from the massive slower bullet.
I love my GBL....first muley buck I took with it was shooting downhill about 75 yards....hit square in the chest he flipped over and embedded his antlers in the soil....they don't jump up and run away after getting hit with that big ass bullet..
Funny read up you will see we both said the same.
ME TOO -- BUT MY CRAZY LITTLE BROTHER LOADS A 165 gr HARD CAST IN HIS 30-30 -- SHOT A 375lb ELK THRU THE RIB CAGE -- HIT NO RIBS & WENT CLEAN THRU IT - WALKED 15 HESITANT STEPS & STOPPED & FELL OVER -- SAW IT WITH MY OWN EYES -- I WOULDNT TRY IT BUT THERE YA GO -- SON USES A 405gr HARDCAST AT JUST OVER 1500fps IN HIS MARLIN BY THE DOOR GUN OUTSIDE OF ANCHORAGE --
30-30 ive used for years. I've never tried the other one. But the fact that I'm used to a 30-30 and I've never had an issue with it. I'll just stick with it.
30-30 ammo is about half as expensive as 45-70, which means you can shoot more in terms of both number of rounds and reduced fatigue. Proficiency over power wins in my book with a round that can take care of 95% of predators and prey in the lower 48. In the world I want to live in, I'd have Henrys of both calibers in my armory. :)
Excellent point about ammo prices
I agree. Good point. The ammo price and the affordability of consistent practice is a big factor when choosing.
The general rule about affordable and sustainable 45-70 is that you should buy a bag of brass or buy a few boxes of factory ammo to start, then reload it for the future. 45-70 has fantastic economy appeal once you get past the initial investment. Especially if you cast your own bullets, which I think is a skill any 45-70 fan should have a go at at least once.
Why not a henry in 308 or 6.5, cheaper then 45.70 and more proficient.
@@NatureBetsLast if one wants to stick with jacketed, then sure nothing wrong with them. 45-70, and 30-30 are awesome cast boolit calibers if you are into self-sustenance, and 45-70 can easily be loaded with black powder which can be made at home along with the cast boolits. Much rather shoot an elk with a 45-70, than a 6.5-anything.
45-70 is the only round rated for aggressive dinosaurs...just sayin.
Good point!
So very true . PS , I work at Ruger on the New Marlin Line currently
Should have said, "just slayin"
@Andrew Williams any word when the sbl 45 70 1895 will start to ship out more frequently?
Have you ever seen one not aggressive?
No Brown Bears around here. So the 30-30 works just fine on white tails, black bears, woodland Caribou, and Moose. Shot placement is important.
This is really good information. I totally agree that the 45-70 recoil is very manageable, even in the hotter loads. When I was shopping for a 45-70, several of my hunting friends warned me "you must love pain" or "it will break your shoulder!" I don't find the kick any worse than 7mm 150 gr loads. I'd much rather shoot 45-70 with 325 gr than a 12 gauge with 3" slugs or 3.5" turkey loads.
I think the "kicking" lore is in reference to the old Springfield carbine. It will handle .45 - 70 but is chambered for .45 - 55, which most people do not know.
Are you referencing the fact that the Army started using the 45-55 instead of full power 45-70 ammo in the lighter cavalry carbines to mitigate recoil in those rifles?
How 30 30 not a big game round not even close
Idk. I had a Marlin 1895 CB I purchased around 2018. Despite its very long octagonal barrel (I believe it was 28" long if memory serves me) it was very VERY lightweight - lighter than my Marlin 336 with 20" barrel was. Firing Hornady LeveRevolution 325gr FTX out of that gun put a serious beating on my shoulder.
I'll take the 30-30. It does what I need done and doesn't beat the snot out of me in the process. It's the 1894 version of the 6.5 Creedmoor. Thanks for the vid.
Excellent presentation, thanks. I am a big fan of both the .45-70 Govt. and the 30-30 Winchester. Recently, I became the owner of a like new Model 71 Winchester in .348 Win. This is one super strong lever gun which, in my estimation, will out preform both afore mentioned cartridge, lever guns. I now hand load for all of them and enjoy shooting all my lever rifles. My next project involves the 1895 Winchester in 30-06.
I too have the .348 Winchester, that cartridge case is on of the most wildcat cartridge cases ever, too start with there are at least two improved .348 cartridges, then the 450 ( .458) and later the .50 caliber cartridges , there was a
30 caliber cartridge, a .40 caliber, 416, 375 caliber cartridges.
dude added that its more powerful because what ? u want strong shoulder recognition ? luub
Love deer hunting with 45-70. Never have to track them.
Didn’t goooooo 20
I have both calibers in Marlin lever rifles. I am in southeast usa and hunt deer and hogs for large game. The 30-30 is a good choice for our situation instead of 45-70. I also use a Marlin 1894 in 44 magnum which is an awesome little rifle. I grab that rifle quite often. Having a 30-30 around is a good idea. Ammo is usually available and doesn't break the bank. I do keep an 1895GS with my brother in AK for trips up there. I use is as a bear protection rifle when in the bush up there.
This was a truly informative and impressive presentation of a subject that is rarely treated.
I'm not a hunter, but instead, a target shooter.
Our state championships for lever action silhouette a few years back consisted of two 40 shot matches in a day. For the three types of guns that we shoot, the match would go for 3 days, one day shooting a rifle cartridge (a .30-30 for me) rifle, another day for a pistol caliber rifle, and a final day for .22LR rifle. When shooting 80 shots for the title, that cumulative recoil can take its toll. However, the recoil from a .30-30 is mild enough for a teenager to be competitive.
Glad you enjoyed it John! That's a good point you make about recoil. I've noticed that it can take a toll on me as well just on a regular day at the range sometimes.
Muzzle brake works great on45 70
I'd take 45-70 just for the flexibility of having a brown bear defense gun while also being able to use it for deer if need be.
Not a darn thing wrong with that. Where do you do most of your hunting?
I used to live in Colorado, but had to move back to the midwest. Planning on doing a couple of Alaska trips in the future. Also hunting Montana this year for Elk and Mule deer.
Good deal. You taking the 45-70 to Montana? Or are you going to be using something else?
@@Thebiggamehuntingblog I'm going to be using a kimber hunter in .308 for montana. A 45-70 would be for when I back up my buddy on a future bear hunt we have planned
I’m getting my son a 45-70 for his birthday because he loves Springfield trapdoors and we live in St. Louis Missouri but my dad and granddad own some land down in west plains Arkansas about 40 acres and we go down there to hunt
If you don't hand load, pick the .30-30. If you do hand load, the .45-70 is a very versatile round. From round ball 'cat sneeze' loads to 500+ grain monster-masher loads, the .45-70 can do it all...but the heavy loads really aren't necessary for deer hunting. A 330 grain cast hollow point from a Lyman #457122 mold cast with 30-1 alloy and loaded to 1500 fps will give Bambi a very bad day, and felt recoil is not bad at all. I can easily shoot 50 rounds in practice without feeling beat up, and I'm in my 60's.
My .50 cal. muzzle loader has better external ballistics than that. There are reasons behind the change from 45/70 to other firearms in the past. The 45/70 is a great round but is a pumpkin thrower, it's advantage is in bullet mass so a good range finder is necessary to be accurate at different ranges.
Thanks for this input. I do reload, and I was leaning toward .45-70 to begin with… this may put it over the top.
@@russellkeeling9712 In doing load development for 45-70, what I've discovered is that any of the heavy bullets, 405 gr or heavier, at about 1600 fps have an easily managed arc. If you'll sight in about 2.5" high at 100 yards, that'll get you to about 165 yards or so without having to adjust holdover for white tails, black bears, or pigs. If you wanted to go after something bigger, like a moose, sight in about 5" high at 100 yards, and you'll be about 5" below point of aim at 200 yards, well within the vital zone on a moose at any distance out to 200 yards.
In its original 70 grain black powder leading, the 45 70 was actually a pretty wimpy load compared to loads used by muzzleloaders of that time period. Granted, it is almost a completely different round using today's smokeless powder loadings, but I wanted a big bore rifle using heavy bullets in today's world, there are better options, none of which involve the use of a lever action rifle.
45-70 with 325 grn FTX bullets loaded to about 1900 fps is my go to deer round. It's accurate, lighter recoil but going fast enough at 100 yds for reliable expansion.
Got a 30 wcf. Made 1907. 26" octagon barrel. Great condition.
My friend just sold a bunch of lever guns at auction. Many people didn't even know what a 30 WCF was.
I have 30wcf made 1907 also ,nickle steal made for modern powder.
I would use a 30-30. Over the years I've come to appreciate the use of my shoulder.
Nothing wrong with that! The 30-30 is a great cartridges for many reasons, especially for effectiveness at typical hunting ranges and moderate recoil.
@@Thebiggamehuntingblog i like 30-30(I haven’t shot a 45-70) but I’m a sucker for lever actions I want to hunt with it but I’m using a .243 that I’ve had for a long time
Well, lower recoil might be a thing.
30-30 with lever evolutions has recoil but nothing like a single shot 12ga high brass heavy slug. But neither does the 45-70. Certainly does release more kick back but it's very manageable, there's more kickback with the heaviest rounds loaded with the best powder to the maximum of safe levels but even the lighter weight 444 marlin has more kick back.
All in all figure a Henry h024 side gate (only bcuz I have one so can personally attest) when you empty the rifles 7 rounds you absolutely feel it using the 160gr lever evolutions. The marlin 95' 45-70 firing 5 rounds (modern loading) after you empty each rifle the 45 leaves only slightly more "feeling" of shooting a proper cartridge, the 30-30 is slightly smoother for quicker crisp highly accurate fire.
Both cartridges are extremely well renowned respected and TRUSTED for good reason. You get generations get caught up in marketing saying the 30-30 is near useless for grizz, moose, elk....yet actually it's very well documented dropping many charging massive grizzlies sometimes with a single shot in the skull. In the real world the 30-30 with real practice/experience is phenomenal and still trusted to this day, only those who do not own one or any actual experience seem to disrespect the legendary cartridge and it's absolutely perfect balance.
The 45-70 is one hell of a power house, and in my own opinion I agree feel more secure to carry in grizz territory. But the ballancing factor is up to 3 less rounds ready to go in the guns, and slightly harder for quick accurate follow up shots.
Both rounds have very much earned my respect. But all in all, modern rounds and rifles I still would choose the 30-30 for 90% of our country. Only up in Alaskan territory would I honestly want to have the 45-70 slung over my shoulder.
@@willis7612 Henry's Long Ranger allows 308 based cases in a box magazine.
Good video. I've got rifles chambered for both calibers and have been successful hunting with them. Both are plenty of rifle for any game east of the Mississippi river and out to say 100 yards + or - At the end of the day it will always be the shooter that determines how effective the cartridge will be. And that's much more important than the caliber of your weapon.
I have both, never shot my 30-30 as the 45-70 is too much fun.
Have both Marlin 336C 30 30 and 1895 GBL 45/70. Love them both.
The first questions should be,..........what are you hunting for? and where are you hunting?........With the possibility of Bear and the increased sighting of Big foot and Skinwalkers lurking around, I would choose the .45/70......
I have both, and love them both. Different tools for different jobs. Now me personally. I like the 44-70 better, much more versatile cartridge. But that's just my opinion.
Get both, but if I could only get one it would be the 45-70.
30-30. Reasonably priced ammo. Easy to control. Short to medium range works for just about any table game. Effective on all but biggest dangerous game in North America.
Funny enough the 30-30 was marketed for dangerous game back when she came out.
Still a very viable cartridge.
"Reasonably priced ammo"? Have you checked the prices these days for 30-30 ammo? It costs just as much as 45-70 ammo now, sometimes even more expensive! The Hornady LeverEvolution costs the same for 30-30 ($47.99 per box) as 45-70, and so does the Buffalo Bore 30-30 ($103.99 per box for 30-30 Buffalo Bore, not a misprint -- that's $5.20 per round!). Also 30-30 is even less available than 45-70, very scarce ever since 2020, nearly impossible to find anywhere!
@@DavidHartenWatson
Yup I saw that today on Midway USA. Those exact prices. I just got a 30-30 and I couldn’t find 30-30 in any of my local gun shops. Is it possible that isn’t going the way of the Dodo bird? Hope not, but it’s getting very expensive and harder to find.
In lever actions, I use both plus the .348 and .405, the later two are my overall favorites in a lever gun. Good review on two classic American hunting cartridges.
I have a 450 Marlin and that cartridge will withstand higher pressures. With the 450 round Hornady makes a 300 gr. Flextip that is good for deer. If you can find it, the 350 gr. soft point is a great round for big bad game. We also loaded some 300 gr. hard cast lead that will take out a small tree.
It seems like so many game hunters overlook the dangers of the small tree.
Just for fun, I chopped down a few small trees with a 357 magnum. Pick a proper load, it will fully penetrate a small tree with no problem. A few more rounds and down it goes.
I had a 35 rem. Lever and loved it
I have the Marlin 30/30 lever action, now I want the Marlin lever action 45/70 😁✌️🇺🇸
I have a 30-30, 35 Rem, 444 Marlin, and a 45-70, all Marlins. I like each one, and have taken feral hogs with each, but none of them has my confidence like the 45-70 with 405gr bullets. The more I use it, the better it gets.
I’ve harvested many deer with the 30-30 in the Marlin and Winchester rifles. I am yet to hunt with my new Henry 45-70 but will take it to the field this November here Missouri where we normally hunt in wooded areas where 30 to 100yard shots are more likely. Another great explanation of these two great old calibers. Thanks!!!
The 45-70 is the most popular grizzly defense rifle in Alaska bar none. Jim West @ Wild West Guns always has a huge backorder for his takedown 45-70 rifles. I myself always had a Marlin 1895 18.5" w/Buffalo Bore 430gr hard cast bullets whenever I was camping, canoeing, or hiking in Brown Bear country.
We loaded some 300 gr. hard cast lead and 350 gr. SP for my 450 Marlin that will take out a small tree. Bear Hunting is on my bucket list.
When fishing for salmon I have seen more short 12 gauge shotguns for self protection from bears than anything else. I think .338 was next.
what about shotshell slugs?
I have two 30-30 lever actions a 72 Marlin 336 and a Mossberg 464 SPX I love both rifles. They both have put meat on the table reliably from my property. I have shot the 45-70 but I don’t own one but I’m always looking to change that. But for my needs the 30-30 is all I need.
45-70 best all around gun
I liked your video but you should have said the 30 cal Winchester is a great medium powered cartridge, as it was designed to be, a little more powerful than the 7.62x39mm AK round developed 50 years later.. Considering when it was designed it was brilliant. It was designed for John Browning's lever action carbines. No wonder it sold millions and people still use it. It's still good! If you're a farmer, rancher, woods hunter, or stagecoach driver it's still a good rifle. Stagecoach drivers are gone but there are many who have similar occupations and a light easy to handle powerful enough carbine is still a good choice.
I'm not sure the 30-30 was designed as a medium cartridge. It is now a medium cartridge but at the time it was, I believe, the highest velocity rifle. It was one of the first to shoot smokeless powder causing it to be quite powerful for its day.
Note the 30-30 Winchester came out decades before the 7.62x39 combloc cartridge, thus the Commie pile of crap copies the .30-30
"I liked your video but you should have said the 30 cal Winchester is a great medium powered cartridge, as it was designed to be, a little more powerful than the 7.62x39mm AK round developed 50 years later.."
That quote makes no sense at all. The .30-30 wasn't designed to be "a little more powerful" than anything developed 50 years later. It was designed to deliver all of the power and trajectory flatness a typical sport could make use of in a world where telescopic sights weren't in widespread use by American hunters, and deliver those attributes without an excess recoil penalty.
"Considering when it was designed" means considering that American hunters of that time were men who shot with metallic sights and lever-action repeating rifles. When the .30 WCF hit the market, it was considered by people like Theodore Roosevelt to be "flat shooting" and "hard hitting" and compared to everything else in widespread use by American hunters, it was the .300 Weatherby Magnum of its era. In North American Game Trails, Roosevelt gives the .30-30 the same kind of high praise that post-war gun scribes showered on the .300 Weatherby Magnum: "Never before has their been a sporting cartridge that shoots this flat and hits this hard at distance."
"No wonder it sold millions "
No wonder. When the .30-30 came out, it was amazing that you could sight on a pronghorn's spine at 275 yards and kill it stone-cold dead with one shot.
30-30 all the way. It's a great weapon that a youth can handle and will get the job done. I usually hunt with a 7mm Rem Mag that my wife got me for Father's Day nearly 20 years ago. I've killed a lot of deer with it but it will never kill as many as my old model 94 that I carried as a youngster. It was my G-grandfather's and was passed down through the family.
I'm getting a bit long in the tooth and plan on using "Old Betsie" this year. Anytime I've carried it I've always seen really nice bucks and laid a good number of them to rest. It's time to reconnect and I'm sure looking forward to opening day this coming Saturday.
Best of luck to all of you hunters. May you take a buck that dreams are made of this year!
If you have an old model 94 take very good care of it. It has become pretty valuable.
Notice you only mention deer for 30 30 you go ahead and try stopping a mad bear with one
I agree with your assessment on long range and larger game.
I have my Henry. 45-70 ready to go!
Great video, thanks for sharing. I can't choose between the two so own both and take both to the range and out hunting fairly regularly...
Glad you enjoyed the video! Nothing wrong with owning both!
this information is just what I was looking for. Great job
Glad it was helpful!
Great video and analysis… Thanks for sharing! I simply prefer the lever action over any other long gun when out in the field hunting or for security out in the open wilderness. It’s lightweight and fast handling and you can easily keep topping off as you roll along. I probably would stick with the 3030 cartridge as I keep everything under 120 yards. At that distance, I think the 3030 is very capable of any large dangerous game.
I just want to say that your video on these two iconic cartridges is refreshing in it's complex analysis of recommendation for a given application or shooter. So often people ask "which is better or the best" cartridge. The answers, if honestly assessed and given, are varied and complex. While the 45-70 is my favorite and the best choice for me as a shooter, for where I hunt, what I hunt and how I hunt, the 30-30 is often the better choice for a different shooter with different needs. In the end, thank you for your accurate and honest analysis, comparison and recommendations.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
Very very outstanding video. Great job. Really informative. Keep up the good work. Thanks a lot friend. SC Navy vet. 1965.
I have both.
I have both and enjoy them equally
Not a darn thing wrong with that!
What I think is more interesting is .44 mag compared to the 30/30 since lever guns if used with iron sights tends to be best under 150 yards. With my big fst sights that are nice and fast 100 yeards is pushing things but it doesn't matter in eastern forest.
This is the one that I'm having the hardest to choose from. 44 vs 30-30. Which one is better? 44 has better capacity while 30/30 would be more accurate + longer range.
I have both Marlins 336y and 45/70 1895 GS love them both.
I use 375 hh mag for everything now a days
Where do you primarily hunt?
@@Thebiggamehuntingblog Alaska area and Alberta previously for elk hunts I used 235 grains for deer and 250 for elk and for bear I use 300-350 anything smaller than a deer I use 220 swift I do have a 300 wby mag but I still prefer for under 150 yards I prefer stopping power of 375 hh magnum I used a 458 Lott for grizzly but I inthe 375 magnum with modern loads is far superior but I've hunted many places as well as Utah and few places in africa would love to talk and discus more about my hand loads and recoil control as I find some today aren't accurate as they flinch but I grew up with a 35 whelen and 303 lee Enfield haha and I didn't know anything for shotguns onless it was 10 gauge till my late 20s but I'd be interested in your view on different calibers as you are well spoken and highly recommended
@@Thebiggamehuntingblog but I also had a few scares early in hunting career and have since always opted for more stopping power specially against moose and bear as I've seen a moose take a full mag of 300 win mag before it went down with proper shots too so I tend to like knockout power shot instant down rather than run off and nothing has ran on me with a 375 magnum in my hands and I've dropped a bear point blank in full charge as we spooked it but as I said before I'd be interested to get more information together
What's your email?
485 SOCOM round. Shortened 45-70
kind of like how the .380 is to the 9mm and 40.cal is to 10mm
Just new to your channel, i have a 30-30 but would like a 45-70 lever, great video and info thanks
Welcome!
In South TX the .30-30 is the much better choice in terms of ammo and rifle availability/price and lower recoil. It easily gets the job done on all the wildlife encountered locally.
Not knocking the .45-70 but you just really won’t need the extra power and the recoil that comes with it
One of my first rifles was marlin 30-30 shoots as great today as it did 40 years ago, do not have 45-70 if I would have known MD was changing it's hunting regulations to adopt the straight wall cartridges to be used state wide might have purchased one years ago. I now have so many choices in straight wall cartridges and gun configuration the 45-70 is almost obsolete
I have a Henry in 45-70, it’s a fun gun to shoot. It is primarily my Hog gun. I use 325gr Hornady, but do have some 405gr on hand. I can bang steel with ease out to 200 yards but I zero it at 100 yards.
for all the 45-70 handloaders out there, assuming you don't cast your own, I think the best deal going for heavy bullets (405 gr) may be Missouri Bullet company. Just ordered my 4th box of 200 from them, and including shipping, the bullets end up costing 31 cents each. Pretty good deal. I've killed several deer and hogs with those, but any more, I just use those for target practice. Accuracy is excellent out of my Remlin 1895 GBL.
Great review, would it be possible for you to review the 45 Long Colt?
45/70 in grizzly country,
30 30 in
Black bear and cougar areas
Perfectly stated
I agree with you. I have both and love both. You did a great job with this video. Thanks.
I saw a writer mention that in most modern 45-70; Ruger no1, Marlin 1895, etc that the limiting factor on performance is what the shooter can handle for recoil. And most factory loads are downloaded because of the old trapdoor rifles. Most reloading manuals have different data for trapdoor or modern rifles. My brother has a 30-30, I want a 45-70 and have been waiting over a year for a Henry in that caliber.
You should check on Gallery of Guns. I have seen two Henry 45-70’s on the shelf at local gun stores near me.
It’s like asking me what kid I like best! Own both and they have taken many animals!
I just love lever guns. I have six right now and they’re all fun to tinker with. The 250 savage is the smallest caliber and the 86 in 45-70 would be the biggest. I do love options . Lol
Good video though.
Nothing wrong with options!
Excellent job on the information very accurate.I hunt with both.
Awesome! Thank you!
Both are great, but don't forget the 444 Marlin! Arguably the best Levergun of the bunch!
Isn’t it a shame some of the best cartridges have limited availability? I’d love to have a .444 Marlin, but finding ammo for my .35 Rem Marlin is hard enough. So if I was to get a big bore I’d probably just get a 45/70 gov. I’m also thinking of the 7mm/08 Remington, one of the best cartridges for modern deer rifles there is.
nope.
pistol bullet in a rifle case.
both beat the 444 marlin in different ways.
30-30 long range.
45-70 close range power.
I think the .444 has too much recoil but still a very effective game getter. I'm in my 70's with spinal disc damage in my neck. As much as I love my 35 Rem. it stays in the gun safe lately. Anything that recoils more than my 30-30's or 6.5x55 Swede gives me serious neck and shoulder pain.
That’s what I was thinking
@@grayman7208 My .444 Marlin does not shoot pistol bullets. Mine is not a lever action. In 218 I harvested my elk from a distance of 266 yards with my .444 Marlin. The bullet passed completely through the animal, it did not take one more step and I was able to eat the meat right up to the wound channel. 240 grain bonded bullet at 2400 feet per second. Who knows how fast the bullet was going when it hit the animal but it didn't matter. Mass means a lot.
I have and really like both, but the .45-70 is the easy choice if I could only have one. It can go from 300 grain cast “plinkers” at 1000 fps all the way up to 430 grain cast or 405 grain jacketed at 2000 fps. I cast all my own and generally live somewhere in the middle.
I have three Marlins - .30. WCF, 35 Rem., and .45-70. They’re all amazing, but I find the .35 nicely balances the strengths of the other two.
Look on Brand Used Works for some 35 Rem. ammo. My friend just put a bunch of lever gun ammo up for auction. The .35 Rem. should come up in May or June.
The 35 rivals most bolt actions in accuracy in the Marlin. It's pretty remarkable
Have not used but prefer the 45/70 as practical but what is best for long range as mile or two and what is Reange of the sharps 90 /110 or 45/70 compesrd to the Winchester 1886 45)70
For big bore lever guns I love the 444 but good luck finding one or the ammo also my 35 marlin is also a good option
I'll get a .348 Winchester Lever Action instead. This way, I get the best of both world's: power, flat trajectory, field and heavy bush hunting with moderate recoil.
What aoout the 190 grain 30-30 hard cast which is known to kill tigers made by Buffalo bore Ammo and is known to be be more potent than the 303 savage. A missionary killed many A Tiger with this round
T
303 British is high powered 22
My youngest brother and my Dad both have a Marlin 336 in 30/30 so I want my own lever gun and I want to hunt Ohio soon so I would go 45/70 since they and some other states are straight wall cartridge only states. If they would allow or make exceptions for the 30/30 and other bottleneck lever gun cartridges I would have to go with the 35 Rem and reload.
I love and have both. I originally had the Marlin 336 in 30-30. I've taken a bunch of white tailed deer with it living in New England. Since moving out west, I now hunt with a 300 Win Mag, mainly because it is hard hitting in the longer distances we have to shoot out here. I took a 8 pt. mule deer at 402 yards in the mountains. However, I hunt and camp on horseback in Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming, and I always carry a Ruger Redhawk 44 Mag and the Marlin 1895 GBL in 45-70. Same is true for my Alaska trips. Fortunately, I have not had to fire the Marlin in self defense, but I'm sure it will get the job done if required. Since I'm not hunting, in the Ruger and Marlin, I only carry Buffalo Bore Ammunition. (45-70 Magnum - Lever Gun Ammo - 405 gr. J.F.N.(2,000fps/M.E.3,597 ft.lbs.) and 44 Magnum +P+ Ammo - 340 gr. Hard Cast, L.F.N. - G.C. (1,425 fps/M.E. 1,533 ft. lbs.))
Why was the .45-70 not necked down more? Other than .33WCF I don’t know of any factory ammo of .45-70 lineage?
Excellent analysis.
I have had my Winchester 30-30 for 62 years but my regular deer rifle is a 1998 Moroku Winchester Model 1886 in 45-70....
I think the you would use would be determined by whether or not you're into Overkill I mean either one of those on a squirrel would make him explode course now if it was a polar bear I'd take the bigger one but it's up to you which one you'd like to use
Great info mate. Well done and keep up the great work, up in Darwin in the Northern Territory we always go with 4570 govt, it’s good for for dropping water buffaloes 👍
Thanks for that! Best of luck with those water buffalo!
I have to say that ever since my first encounter with a Springfield Trapdoor rifle when I was 17 (now 74), I've been hooked on the 45-70. I have several rifles in that caliber from lever actions Marlin and Henry, to a single being a Sharps. I like the cartridge and feel that it is as versatile as the 30-06 (my second long range love affair), when it comes to realistic range and size of game.
I've had both for me here in Oklahoma 30-30 is perfect
All depends what's after you!
they are both great, but I've never had to chase or track a deer that I hit with the .45-70.
That’s exactly my feelings on it. No tracking with anything close to a decent shot. My .45-70 wins on that alone. Love my .30-30s too though.
Use which ever you feel comfortable with. In fact what ever caliber you chose and can handle. We are all different.
The 45-70 is my go to round for whitetails. Yes it is over kill, but my woods are young and very thick with every type of thorn bush known. I don’t like leaving my own blood trail tracking deer, so I love dropping them where they stand (preferably near the electric right-of-way). My hunting rifle is a Siamese Mauser which can handle the hottest recommended loads. However, I also shoot a number of antique 45-70 rifles and note that the black powder loads do just about as well in the 100 yard range.
Canadians still give moose are real hard time with the 30-30.
First of all I like to thank you for this video very informative my dear hunt on my own property in a thick woods so the best shot I'll ever get is maybe 30 yards but I still like the 45-70 because of the thick brush and I really like the new CVA and 4570
What about the 444 marlin
What size bullet would be in between the two for a lever action? Or is there such a thing? And should they have one?
There have been several over the years, but the 35 Remington (.358 caliber) is probably the most popular. It's likely #3 in popularity today behind the 30-30 and 45-70 among lever action cartridges.
I always wondered how they got their named number designations other than the obvious caliber notation at the beginning of each. Great video.
70 was for the 70 grains of black powdee they would put
Both are great 150 yard guns. Both are chucks of lead. I'd say pig 45/70 and deer 30/30. But you can use both. I shot a doe at 150 yards with a uberti Creedmoor 45/70. Tang Creedmoor iron sight. Dropped that doe on contact. Clean kill. Lights out. No following or chasing. Didn't tear up the meat either.
I hunt in Scandinavia with my 45-70 and have taken moose, fallow and roe deer plus wild boar with my Marlin 1895 SBL. Love the rifle and caliber which is plenty accurate enough for my needs. I’ve never owned a 30-30 but I do have a nice .308 which is also a good all round cartridge. This year I decided to spice things up a bit with a Sauer 303 in 9,3x62 Mauser. Ever tried a 9,3?
The 30-30 is a family tradition in a lot of places in the US. Good starting caliber for young shooters with a 125gr or reduced recoil 150gr. Also good for left handed shooter too.
Wife took here first whitetail buck, with her Father's Marlin 30-30 lever action. She was 14 at the time. Our oldest daughter shot her first deer last year ( she was 14 ).
The old rifle continues to serve us well and fills the freezer.
It you reload, the 30-30 can be reloaded for less then the 45-70.
Of course having a 308, really covers a lot of the same ground that the 30-30 does, with room to spare.
Good luck in the woods this year.
As a matter of fact I have used a 9.3x62. I think it's a fantastic cartridge and have taken deer, wild boar, black bear, and cape buffalo with mine.
Never tried a 9.3x62 but I do have a .35 Whelen and they are pretty close to one another. You can harvest anything in your world with it.
30+ years ago my twin nephews said Last week of the season you take out the 45/70. Yup full penetration from any angle deer down.
Well the 45/70 is number 1 more power and penetration and better bullet selection so wider range of use.
The 30-30 is just great at common range's and more accurate a choice of 3 bullets.
The 444 marlin is more accurate I'm guessing you have a choice of 3 bullets and that limits your use
444 marlin has the range and accuracy.
To me the 45/70 is a pumpkin thrower.
I have a Marlin .30-30 and like it fine within it's limitations. Mostly I've hunted with a BLR .308, if Ive wanted more I have an accurate Mauser 7.92x57. Have never needed anything larger, and frankly, if I did, well, "One should never be where one does not belong"... I'd be doing a mag dump with my FN-FAL...
My old 303 Savage lever is my 1st, then the win 3030 then 4570
Which one should you use? It depends on the game that you hunt!!!
Helpful video, thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
Great video. I’ll stick with 30-30
This was a great topic and very well explained was just talking about this?subject a couple days ago. I would really like to hear this also laid out between the 30-30 and the 243? Especially on the difference between calibers showing energy density? My experience having both the 243 easily out ranges the 30-30 in accuracy but it has a seriously lack of ability of killing power compared to the 30-30. With my 243 more often than not i always had a tracking job after shooting a deer and usually you couldn't even tell the deer was hit. However not once with the 30- 30 was they a doubt a deer was hit as most times it would knock them off their hooves. In the least case they would jump straight up and bow up before trying to run the most 40 yards they might make. This has become a big deal for me and i got rid of my 243 despite the fact I could make very accurate shots out to 400yd with a 6.5 to 24 BSA Contender scope. Another big issue with 243 I found it almost useless in forest hunting due to deflection of projectile but very good hunting over open field. Where my 30-30 was excellent in forest hunting shooting clear through bushes and still hit where you aim. Even though 30-30 give up some range it still was effective in open field out to 250 yds with great stopping power.
What is your opinion of the .270 round?
I’ve never hunted anything bigger than deer. I know dudes that use the .45-70, but that would not be my go to in normal circumstances.
30-30 is a great hunting round for almost anything in the woods. But if I didn't have either I would pickup a versatile 300blackout and a 45-70 for anything bigger than Elk
What would be interesting is a lever cartridge around .35 loaded to around 165-200 grains and 2500-2700 fps and a full 60,000-65,000 psi. This should give a nice short round so there is a decent round count. A gun that was designed a a traditional looking lever action with a high quality aperture sight run at the rear even if its off the bolt with nice fiber optics up front. I think that there is still a place for lever guns. A short fat round like that isn't going to be long range but the extra bore diameter would really squeeze as much power possible out of a small compact cartridge and would do really well in short barrels with a good round count still. A person could drop in some heavy rounds for some ok stopping power. It would be nice and flat out of 200 yards and perfect for deer. Now that I have thought about it I want one. Maybe I can call it the 9mm Storm. Lol. Nothing carries like a little lever carbine. If you can get 7 rounds in a 16" barreled 5 lb gun you would have a perfect package for eastern hunting for those that are ok with open sights. Putting optics on a lever gun is a crime. I wish Taurus was a bit better with their little guns since that horrible safety can be removed for a nice little aperture sight although with the non standard dovetails I had to shim the front sight to get a "Meh" fiber sight. Since the little guns were built in .454 that runs at 65,000 irc they should take the pressure. Really maybe is as simple as seeing what the max length could fit and necking down the .454. A short blunt 9mm isn't going to hold the speed but it's going to be nice and flat out to where you need a lever gun. Well now I have a project to chase.
Or you could get s savage 99 chambered for 358 Winchester, scope it or not, and pretty much meet your qualifications and have performance out to 300 yds. You can load it with bullets from 150 to 250 grain to meet any need you find.
A browning BLR might be easier to find in 358, and do all the same things. The 358 is a wonderful cartridge, particularly with 180, 200, and 225 gr loads, and velocities in the 2500-2700 range.
Good luck loading the .35 up to 2,700 fps. Those pressures are far in excess for any .35 caliber lever gun is capable of holding. Those 55,000 - 65,000 psi loads are in the design realm of a heavy bolt action design.
Don't bother picking either one ; you won't be able to get more than a box of either ammo. Its not on someones approved ammo list. Either gun will look cute sitting mty in a corner of the cabin. Big game will understand.