@@ziff_1 No the developers are the problem too. They suck at making videogames lately, for every bg3 and elden ring there's a redfall and redfall situations are more and more common.
As someone with over 12k hours in XCOM 2, it was because of mods. I don't know if X3 could do any justice compared to what mods already do. The modding community is so strong that they could make X3, if they wanted to. I talk to modders all the time, and the things they can do with this old game is just amazing. If you have never played XCOM 2 modded, you are missing a lot. Covert Infiltration changed the game to the point that I cannot even play it without it. MOCX makes it so you have XCOM enemies that use same tactics as XCOM. More enemies than Firaxis ever made. Strong modders like RustyDios, Reshi, MrCloista, RealityMachina, ShadowX, Deadput, FeartheBunnies, Aero, Iridar, and Kexx, as well as so many others that I cannot put them all here. They make XCOM2 what it is today, and I know if X3 happens, it will have a lot to try and simulate or make better. Because if its not as good as modded X2, it will fail.
Ive never heard of MOCX - sounds interesting and that's one I'll have to add to the collection! Mods definitely have had a huge impact on the longevity of the game, and you bring up a good point. Most people would just come back to X-Com 2 modded if X-Com 3 did not deliver on all fronts or bring something really new to the table. Or if they were to take Mod support away in a future X-Com game, I think people would probably not even bother.
@GridCommand if any new xcom game doesn't have mod support it'll flat out fail. Chimera squad has less mod support than xcom 2 and as such has a tiny amount of modders who've bothered with it for any reason other than mining it for assets. Midnight suns had no mod support and flopped commercially as a result.
@@GridCommander it’s just a lot of fun creating characters of my friends and family and trying my hardest not to let them die. Seeing who becomes heroes in one play through, while in another they don’t make it. It’s a very fun game to role play with I feel. I bet there are mods that make character customization even more in-depth that I would love to use though.
I'd love an XCOM 3, but I don't know what they could change or add to make it much better than Xcom 2. One thing I would like to see is them bring back the horror/mystery aspect from enemy unknown. Xcom 2 is great for gameplay but I have always missed that creepy and mysterious feeling from EU. But even if we don't get an XCOM 3, Xcom 2 with mods is one of the most repayable games I have ever played. So many things you can. You can have 100s of hours with the base game, and then countless more with mods. Not to mention the original games from 1997, and terror from the deep. Gems in their own right as well. Absolute master pieces as well. And the game from 2012 that got me into Xcom, Xcom EW. TLDR: I want Xcom 3 if it's done well, but don't know where the franchise can go from here.
If you are the into sci-fi horror ish aspect you can look into Phoenix Point with the Terror From The Void mod. Very true XCom like experience. I have a video that talks about it a little on my channel.
Well a reason for that was because it was all new, the aliens were unknown (pun not intended) so discovering, dissecting and interrogating them and learning new tidbits of information was part of the intrigue that pulled you into this world. Xcom 2 tried to continue this very same story, so it couldn’t rely on the same mystery by design, even with some new enemy designs. But a lot were callbacks to enemy unknown deliberately for nostalgia. But I agree, they still could’ve leaned into the horror aspect way more, after all the setting is a lot more bleak than Enemy Unknown, now not random people are abducted and experimented on, but the entire population of earth is industrially harvested essentially, it’s way more dystopian than the first one yet it feels so lighthearted in play like you’re just the yankees rebelling against the redcoats.
@@Icetea-2000 for sure I get what you mean about them continuing the same story, and I love the comparison to redcoats. Somehow the first game where you have funding from all these big nations has a more bleak atmosphere than the game where you've lost and now you half a dozen rebels who have resorted to using machetes.
Death only matters if the characters can develop relationships. Imagine having a survivor from a 1st and second generation squads, now you are in your majority 3d and 4th gen with a jagged veteran from the 1st one with appropriate dialogue. RPG story telling is endless with that kind of high stakes on board. It requieres good writers though
I really want to see XC3, but don't care about the social/relationship side that seems to be the popular trend in games these days. Give me chains of command, leadership ratings, morale, specializations and personality quirks/strengths/shortcomings, but stay away from card play, zombies and superhero antics.
Honestly, that core XCOM2 experience is a licence to print money. Bit of a mystery why so many imitations have failed to nail it but it may indeed come down to the absense of that OG team. There really is no need to change much aside from the obvious improvements to graphical fidelity and (especially) optimisation. Whatever may be coming our way, it won't be anytime soon.
I thought Chimera Squad's exploration of the humor and interpersonal relations in a post-war multi-species society on Earth was unique and very cool. I'd be happy to see more exploration of that in a bigger story of a war of multi-species Earth against the Ethereals and their minions across a lot of locations/environments, ending on the Ethereal capital world. You don't need to make X-COM 3 into a dating sim to deliver that. And none of the xcom-like franchises can deliver that.
I felt the opposite about Chimera Squad. I don't want to hear about the poor snakes and sectoids, I want xenos to go home. Earth is for Humans. The characters were pretty annoying to me, and I especially didn't like that it wasn't possible to make my own recruits.
The indie scene is going to come in and fill the XCOM vacuum. We already have series like Xenonauts which is a throwback to the classic 90s XCOM, and there's Mars Tactics coming which is a homage to the XCOM reboot style of gameplay. It's been long enough that people are getting hungry for more XCOM like experiences so I anticipate that we'll see a few more indie offerings soon.
There are quite a few in the works on the indie scene! Mars Tactics is one im looking forward to. Someone will fill the void eventually if firaxis doesn't.
I am a lot more attached to my squad members in XCOM 2 than the heroes in Midnight Sun despite them being just randomly generated characters with no special dialogue.
As someone who is very much invested in the new XCOM games (I've run several RPs set in X2 setting, and are in the process of writing two fics in the world, plus I've played the game many times), I too would rather have xcom die on a high note, than be run into the grond like Halo, Mass Effect and countless other titles turned over to a new team. If there is to be an XCOM 3, I'd like it to be a narrative continuation of XCOM 3, which should include mechanics. In X1 and X2 the "scale" of the game did fit the narrative relatively well, where in X1 you were a covert, underfunded UN organization, and in X2 you have a single resistance group, which thanks to the Avenger can spearhead the liberation efforts, but you lack a structured, government level support. In the context of the post - victory world, such approach would not make sense. The Earth was liberated, so you have a access to milions of possible recruits, assistance from countless new city states and nations which would reappear after the defeat of advent. Naturally however, some of those nations would be at odds with one another, or with you (XCOM). And on top of that the problem of merging society between the sheep who lived in the city centres and the 10% or so of people who lived in the wilds and independent settlements. The enemy which is hinted at in XCOM 2 is also.. much more serious that Ethereal Collective ever was. From what we can gather , aliens had pretty much no off - Earth holdings and their invasion fleet revolved around one mother ship (the Temple Ship), which btw moved on before events of XCOM 2. And the enemy which pursuded the Ethereals, is mentioned to have destroyed the homeworld of said species, and with other planets. And more importantly, Ethereals were fleeing from it, and as wotc revealed, still decided to flee Earth as soon as possible once Avatar was complete. This means the enemy narratively should be significantly more dangerous than Advent and Ethereal Collective. Technology should also have improved, so it makes zero sense for XCOM not to begin with plasma and magnetic technologies, as well as entry into space technologies, and potentially colonization of other planets and systems. With the following, we have the perfect landscape for 2 types of games: a 4X strategy, similar to Terra Invicta, where you have to coordinate the assets provided by different nations to stage a global defence, or a political simulator. The problem is, both would require good writing to pull off, something that I do not think Firaxis has an experience , or writing team to do. X2's world and writing was good enough (especially if you consider potential of unreliable narration, and the Asaru theory, which fixes all the issues with the narrative), but it was largely a skeleton, and relied on headcannon to fill the blanks in it - something that won't be possible to do in the post - war world. A shift to grand strategy would also be a big change in identity of the series
I appreciate the time and knowledge put into this comment, and you're absolutely correct. To continue the series, it would make little sense to just have XCom busted down to an organization with barely anything again. If it were to be done, it would probably be a half baked tropey plot device of some sort (oh no surprise invasion we lost everything type deal). This does in fact change the core idea of the game, and 4X seems like a natural pivot in that scenario. It would be very interesting to see a grand strategy in the XCom universe. 4X games come with their own issues IMO but if done correctly and written properly it would be an excellent way to continue the series without destroying the foundation that's been set up already.
I've played all of Fireaxis' XCOM series and for some reason I could guess how the XCOM 3 would go in terms of world building and story, especially after playing Chimera Squad. Rn I am very much looking forward for the series to use everything the have learned from Chimera Squad and put em into XCOM 3, with each operator consists of different alien races. I do have a lot of concerns with the game's direction since how most game development studios and producers are like nowadays.
There’s still passionate and creative developers out there and perhaps still with Firaxis. But Firaxis is under 2K and TakeTwo so… Hopefully! HOPEFULLY! The suits see what Larian accomplished with Baldur’s Gate 3 and go for that approach. But I’m being naive in thinking that :/
XCOM is an immortal PC game franchise that was fantastically remade and implemented. Iron-man mode XCom is one of the few games that made me care about my soldiers. The only character I remember now from all of 100s of hours of XCom is the first senior officer I lost. That battle had felt like a symphony up to that point: bold moves that eviscerated all of the bad dudes save one pathetic near-dead floater. Then instantly, with a single enemy act, the whole day transformed. Mary "Wednesday" Wilson, my goto Assault finisher...dies to a floater grenade from the very maximum range after finishing off three Chrysalids that were about to eat some bunched up fresh meats who got themselves out of position. The very last enemy, on its very last act, at its max range, with it's minimum damage potential. She died for the rest of the squad right in front of them. I went to the in-game bar something like twenty times to hoist a whiskey and deal with the post-trauma in-character issues. I role played the commander's experience: mentally wrote the letter to her parents, faced the troops at the morning-after reveille, tapped her successor. And returned to the bar, usually saying little to the troops in those brief visits. They knew I had their backs. They also knew why I was there. _______________ The "superpowers wielded by unique characters with pro voice actors" path that XCom2 took at the very end DLC was effectively a dead end...once XCom soldiers are voice by Michael Dorn and company, and are nearly too important to the game experience to "just die"...what's left? Yup, someone suggested "let's make an entire XCOM-alike game with bespoke heroes so important that we really can't have permadeath"?. In a time when people are clearly dead tired of men-in-tights superhero toyz? Oops. In "XCom3: Depths of Vengeance" I could have played as a contender. I could have been someone's commander. Instead I'm just a bum, which is what I am, let's face it.
R.I.P. Wednesday 🫡 X-Com 1 & vanilla 2 did an amazing job of telling the story without being centered around specific characters and still having the "back against the wall" atmosphere and tension. It was just a ragtag band of soldiers trying to do their best to beat back the alien threat. Casualties were expected. I understand the idea of wanting to tell a central story and trying to make characters everyone loves, but that is such a personal thing it's very hit or miss even when done well. Just leave it up to the player and let us make...and lose...who we want. Seems simple 🤷🏻
The stories each of us have with our soldiers. I had a star sniper Schneider “Athena”. They were there from the start to the end, hitting 50%s like they were the broad side of the barn.
I had a similar experience with Amanda "Ragtime" Perry, a combat medic specialist I was farming in order to get the "Stay With Me" thing. She got all the way to Major, nobody else was CLOSE to her, but she was the only medic so she kept going out. One day, on a mission, a sloppy move of mine put her in a flanked position and she got killed, and it felt REALLY bad because I was the one to push her to there. I had a couple other deaths in that run, like a critical headshot to a fresh psionic boi or my upcoming gunslinger being shaken, yet still put up to the front lines and dying for it, but I straight up couldn't touch the game for a bit in my mourning for Ragtime. How is it that this game can make you care so much for mooks.
If asked 'How do we do an XCOM 3?' This is what I'd suggest to them. You need a scenario in which the scale is relatively small in practice, but presents itself as large. My solution to that would be to focus on a recon effort into the territory of that looming threat from the end of WotC. Missions would be in the style of XCOM2 in terms of 'get in, do objective, get out before being overwhelmed'. Strategic stealth (like covering up information about XCOM) would be a major factor of gameplay. Leaving bodies or gear behind would give the enemy more info on XCOM and Humanity. Think of it as being on the other end of XCOM 1's missions, you are the force striking with surprise, but the more your enemies learn about you the harder they'll ramp up. Structuring the enemy as a hegemonic/feudal style empire would allow for a plausible limit to how much force/resources they could/would bring against the recon team. Ultimately it would be framed as a first contact/information war, about the recon team learning more than the enemy does about humanity. There would have to be a transition point in both narrative and gameplay terms from the skirmishing XCOM 1 and XCOM 2 fighting to a more open warfare situation. I would essentially break the game up into 3 phases for this. 1. First Contact (Assault Recovery). This is the XCOM 1 style raids to learn the lay of the galactic landscape, find the borders of ruler jurisdictions and get a handle on what the enemy tech is like. Enough info would convince humanity's governing council that we need to hit first and peace isn't an option. A soft failure state for this is the enemy getting enough info to do the same and launch it's own first strike. That would push you into a highly pressured phase 2 framed as stalling the enemies ability to martial to war while humanity scrambles to match them. The player is working with limited logistics and thus has strict budgets for this phase, but command encourages 'field requisitions'. 2. Preparatory Strikes (Sabotage before D-Day.) This is the XCOM 2 style strikes on strategic assets and locations located during phase 1 and phase 2. Places with fortifications and guards, much faster enemy response times and the enemy's XCOM equivalent dropping in as a soft enrage timer to pressure you. Objectives would be less pass/fail and more margins of victory, so players need to balance the scale of damage done to the risks they're taking with their forces. Eventually either the time before humanity takes the offensive runs out or the enemy makes a major offensive move. The player again is working with what logistics can be spared (in part because you did so well already or because humanity is scrambling.) but now instead of sending stuff back to the core worlds it'd be put to use locally. (Oppressive regimes breed resistance and feudal style power players don't care where the deniable weapons come from.) 3. Open Warfare (Special Forces) This would be the new, larger scale engagement setup, with linked missions in a branching pass/fail setup as this elite team hits targets to shift the tide of bigger battles that simply wouldn't be meaningful to try and implement directly on screen. If you've seen LW2 style raids with lots of defending settlement NPC's vs lots of aliens, you know why that needs to be avoided. Depending on how the overall strategic situation is going, the player may have wide latitude to throw around munitions like confetti. (If they're doing well.) If they've been having a rough go of it, more desperate mission types and tools come into play. (Release this engineered plague into the atmosphere system of a vital fueling station that has non-combatants is an example of something you wouldn't see if things were going well.) The phase would be a tug of war for territory and resources, with the player not directly making strategic decisions at scale, but given latitude to intervene anywhere they see fit. (Either because they've done so well, or because higher ups are too busy bickering to clamp down on them.) The endgame states would be either the collapse of humanities frontier colonies closest to the enemy (opening up a 'what if that went poorly?' sequel or expansion and leaving narrative space open.) or the ending of offensive operations in this border region with conquest completed. (opening up a 'what does the enemy do next and how does XCOM's elite strike force contribute?' sequel or expansion.) A good chunk of a third game's challenge is giving a compelling framing for retaining the smaller scale and limited resources to work with. It's my opinion that this is surmountable, especially because we the audience are on board with such from the start. Would I like a 4x style game? Sure, but that is best fit for a spin off, not a mainline XCOM title. XCOM has always been about an outmatched force with limited resources made of all too mortal soldiers outfighting a foe that vastly outweighs them.
This is an extremely well thought out reply! I appreciate you taking the time to detail it out, and I think it is absolutely a great framework for what a third game could be without losing the feeling of small squads desperately fighting. I really like the resource tug of war and this would also lay framework for said 4X spinoff, or even an expansion style DLC like WOTC to continue with how the enemy would counter, or if things went poorly what events would come of that.
I thought it was decent as a spinoff, but decent spinoffs only work when there's still something going on with the main series (or the main series sucked to begin with). Otherwise they just feel like inferior replacements. Chimera Squad definitely feels like an inferior replacement.
I would love to see it. Firaxis clearly knows what they are doing in regards to the strategy of the series ----- in my wet dream, I would love a game of xbox 2's strategic depth paired with the writing of obsidian!
Imho, our best chance to see a new XCOM is through modding, at least that's what I did with XCOM: Enemy Within. It's surprising what you can achieve with modding. In my case, I've been working in a total overhaul of Long War. Adding new layers to the tactical layers, reworking classes, modding physics, etc... Maybe if fans create something really special with modding xcom1 and xcom2, we might bring back the original firaxis team aboard
Long War Eternal Nightmare is a fitting name for a longer Long War 😆 jokes aside though that's awesome! EW is great with the extra additions of EXALT and Meld. I am always blown away by the new things I see come from modding
I absolutely loved midnight suns. the amount of work that went into that game must have been huge because the social sim part of it was literally full of all the comic book stories that characters experienced over the years. as a longtime marvel fan that game was a blast for me. But I also adore Xcom. wish they continued with both midnight suns style games and xcom games.
I feel like there is a way to meet in the middle. I'm a more casual marvel fan and I actually really enjoyed the depth in Midnight Suns, it blew me away.
I kinda liked how in Chimera Squad, with the fact that we have aliens under our command, was explaining what is the world after defeating Advent. Like there is no global currency and economy, so if you were a rich guy in City 31 you were nobody in other cities (not to mention that thing is called by a number and not with actual name), that Floyd Tesseract guy, who in his broadcast said that they didnt have to use that much of their psionic powers for people to believe Advent and you should not believe in bulllcrap said by some rando in the radio, whatever the hell Burger Palace, former known as Advent Burger, is doing, Vipers being technically earthlings since they were born on Earth, Clones being formally children due to their age, Mutons having cats, Sectoids not having cats, etc. etc. For a cheap little game (and on the release Chimera Squad was super duper cheap with -50% sale like I dont even), which basically was a experiment for new game mechanics, had some excellent world building.
I tend to forget that Chimera Squad was as cheap as it was. I got it for 10$ at launch and you're right - it had a lot packed in it for not a lot of money. I didn't mind the idea and lore of seeing what the world is like after Advent, my main gripe is the characters in general just felt poorly done (in my opinion).
The powers that be have evaporated two of my messages. All I wanted was to recommend a mod for UFO Defense called the "X-Com Files" and while I'm being prevented from describing it, it's entirely worth looking into if you can stand the original UI.
Fire emblem has already proven you can have interpersonal relationships in a permadeath strategy game Mind you fire emblem also proves that isn’t always a good thing (stares at fates)
There's an old saying of don't reinvent the wheel. There are living examples of devs doing just that. The Bueareau, X-com enforcer, and X-com interceptor. The likely hood that we get X-com 3 as Jake solomon's team teased (TFTD) is incredibly small. At this point I would say going back to basics would be the call for what's needed. Look at what the old games did that was so beloved, IE deep tech trees, geoscape, actually expendable troops that often died in one shot on the easiest difficulties. Large squad sizes and the ability to intercept with Multiple fighters and go out on patrols. X-com will always have a fond place in my heart. I've beaten both x-com enemy unknown/within, and x-com 2/WOTC. I'm not a long war fan but I see the appeal. anyways thanks for the vid. Sorry for catching it several months late. Looking forward to girls frontline 2 though which I'm hoping will carry the torch for me.
Going back to the basics is probably the best call - I think a fine line can be struck between the modern game and classic, as each still have die hard fans of their own. Mars Tactics is a game I'm keeping an eye on that looks to have a good blend of the two! Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment, and thanks for the Girls Frontline 2 name drop, I'd never heard of it before!
The ending of xcom 2 makes me think that the elders planted a device that unleash a biological weapon that'll irradiate the entire planet and anyone that didn't find shelter would be turned into zombies and maybe even have a new enemy make a appearance since the elders said something about a danger that was coming and they wanted to prepare for it
If an XCOM 3 is coming, then I hope that, as with Civ 7, Firaxis will at least make use of the other games of this type. For example, that they incorporate the things that Phoenix Point did better into their game. And that they hire some real authors this time.
I would hope that they would look at the improvements to the formula from other games, as some of them have really great twists on the standard mechanics. A clearly defined canon story would be nice but I feel like that's asking too much 😆
X3 has such a high bar of expectations that I’m worried. Even if it does happen, and it’s not just another chimera squad or midnight suns, and it does follow properly after X2, it probably still becomes what I call a “zombie game.” A game that comes out, is given a respectable attention by the players in the genre for about a week, and then is left to die. I’ve seen so many xcom-likes disappear so quickly and I think the term xcom-likes has a lot to do with it. By calling these games xcom-likes, we associate these games with xcom, a game that not only was groundbreaking on release, but has even further developed WAYYY out of proportion over the last 8 years thanks to the absolutely incredible modding community. Expecting these games to feel the same as xcom is unfair, and that’s why we leave them to die, so we can go play more xcom. Now, this is what I’m afraid will happen to xcom 3. I just can’t see the skeleton of a development team having anywhere near the creative power to match what xcom 2 has become. If it doesn’t match modded xcom 2, we will leave it to die and just play more xcom 2. Xcom 2 is getting even better every day, and has an 8-year [and counting] head start. 8 years worth of modding development is very hard to catch up to. At this point, I think the modding community would make a better xcom 3 than Firaxis ever could. That said though, there may be a little bit of hope left. ChristopherOdd mentioned someone during his recent xcom EW campaign, (sorry I don’t remember the name), but he was a pretty major player in xcom 2 and he is still at Firaxis. If xcom 3 will ever be able to reach the extremely high bar set by xcom 2, and the even higher bar set by mods, he would be the most likely one to do it.
I agree, calling everything "XCom but ____" has probably hurt the genre more than anything because most of them will never come close to hitting that mark and the expectations out of the gate are high. The mod community has singlehandedly redefined XCom 2 multiple times, and I'm afraid of the same thing you are with 3. XCom has become something all its own and I'm not sure the developers could ever top that.
I’m of two minds about this topic. On one hand, I would love to see an XCOM game where we get to go on the offensive; or at least get a new twist on where battles can take place (anyone down for a From The Deep remake?). On the other hand, I absolutely DO NOT trust modern developers to do it justice. While I enjoyed Chimera Squad for what it was, I don’t want to see the entire franchise be that level of character driven. I like the interesting base personnel (Bradford, Vallen, the Shens, and Tigen). But the main core of the storytelling is making custom soldiers, getting randomly generated soldiers, and watching as the gameplay itself writes the narrative. That’s part of what makes XCOM great. I wouldn’t _mind_ smaller scale character-driven stories like The Bureau or Chimera Squad popping up again, but the main games need to hold that main core of “OMG! The random rookie just pulled off a clutch Overwatch shot and saved the mission!! What a legend!” and I don’t trust _anyone_ to do that correctly right now.
Unfortunately I agree. The character creation and organic stories that come from it really are the core of the XCOM experience. Each rookie is a lottery ticket and you grow their story as they go. I hope they can find a fine line between having some set characters and story driven content while also keeping the core battle to battle and soldier investment the same - but I really don't trust any modern devs to do it justice either.
since the ending of X2 teased an underwater enemy, Id love to see underwater and maybe air combat. you could control a submarine as an HQ and put diving gear on and stuff.
i feel like xcom 3 would have to push the boundaries of the tacitcal turn based genre in the correct direction and currently that boundary is still in the fog. so until the genre starts being confined, even with modding, xcom 3 isn't ready to be made. story wise, 1 is invasion, 2 is occupation, following the trend 3 would be liberation. i could see the story line being along the lines of capturing an alien ship, and using it to liberating the various enemies species from the conquering overlords or something similar. and as you liberate worlds you can start recruiting and using tech from that species.
So basically, they started Xcom3, got an offer from Marvel, got distracted, shelved Xcom3 as Chimera Squad and made a marvel game instead. It sold poorly and Firaxis had layoffs. Now they will go back to Civ 6 and Xcom3 may never come.
I want an Xcom style game - but set in Stargate universe. Travel to planets - discover lore and tech - and turn based fighting. id even pay 60-70€ for a good game like that!
I need Xcom 3. I need it because I have seen XCOM first time in 1995 - It was second game terror from the deep and I felt i love with that game. Unfortunately my computer was weak at that time and I had to play OG enemy unknown. Which I fell in love with too. Later with new machine I played TFTD for years. And X2 ending suggested exactly that in new Xcom (which is far superior to the original). So yes I need X3. But only if done properly. I do not understand the hate for chimera squad. Sure it lack strategic layer. But the game is pure fun. Its so well designed. I just enjoy it from time to time. So far I finished it more than 3 times. I would say that its only fault is that we all wanted X3 and we did get “just” Chimera squad. Breach system is just brilliant…❤
I do really like the breach system and would love to see it implemented into missions in a future X-Com game! A proper TFTD-styled modern game would be amazing
@@GridCommander Exactly - Only mods for Xcom2 I am really looking for are some whoch would change the style from G.I.JOE to realistic modern army style (or police special forces) I did not find any with good feeling yet - maybe later.
Honestly I always felt that XCOM 2 was entirely carried by its customization rather than its inherent mechanics. Besides all the small quality of life improvements like being able to reload and move in the same turn, there’s equally as much just minor annoying shit. Even if it’s more barebones and a little bit more clunky, I’ll always feel the EW gameplay experience is much better balanced and doesn’t become frustrating nearly as often. That being said, I’m still glad I have a game where I can have 37th President of the United States Richard M. Nixon and Grunkle Stan team up to kick alien ass.
Camera Squad didn't go far enough with character relationships, but I agree it shouldn't be in 3 or any mainline game. It should be spinoffs or side stories focused heroes and named characters from the mainline game. XCOM Declassified could be reworked into a side story with a full fledge relationship system with proper turn-based combat but make the main character the 'spokesman.' Other spin off ideas are a story of Dr. Vahlen after the event of XCOM 1, resistance/faction building before XCOM 2, or a story about Central's experience before XCOM 1.
XCOM 2 is honestly a fantastic base of a game that they could just push decent DLCs at the level of war within if they wanted to. I 100% agree that live service is where they will take the franchise or a reboot due to a new game lead since Jake has left Firaxis.
In my eyes (not a game developer, just a modern XCOM fan) if you were to simply take WOTC update the graphics, add Phoenix Point’s “Fine aim”, and maybe (huge maybe) research carry over from 2 to 3. Or if you like doing all the research and having to start from square one again maybe a bio-virus eats through lily’s systems and wipes all their data and connects to any offsite locations to wipe it there too. I’m gonna be honest though, i like the idea of starting with all the previous research done. That said, maybe new weapons and armor. Maybe the “Final Enemy” could be a Biomechanics race necessitating the revisitation of “Meld” tech. It could easily explain how a virus could so quickly and easily wipe their files and bring the flying fortress down. In summary; if it ain’t broke. Don’t fix it.
I like the biomechanic angle! It would be nice to start at the top of the tech tree, but I agree it would be hard to explain. Honestly something I hadn't thought of 😆
I like Julian Gollop's Phoenix Point, with all its warts and pimples far more than XCOM2/WOTC, or what I have seen about Chimera Squad or Midnight Suns.
Worst thing in Xcom2 is that we fight mostly dudes not aliens. Xcom3 could improve that, introducing again unkown alien threat (that wiped out Etherials' worlds).
There were some leaks and vague statements made that hinted around at it, but as far as I know there has never been any official word that development started on it
Just want to throw in my thoughts and analysis of the idea around XCOM 3 and the split between the XCOM-likes. The X-COM (like) community is splitting into 4 categories from what i see. (Not nessescarily accurate, but it's easier, and it covers all the gameplay points) XCOM 2 (+mods) Phoenix point Xenonauts Realism (no such game. However, i do have ideas on it taking notes from a time-based strategy game, Door Kickers 2) I noticed some trends in this: The more realistic a game is, the fewer RPG elements it has, Xcom 2 has skills and such, but xenonauts 2 only has increases in stats because most of the 'skills' are item dependant. Geoscape (Xenonauts 2 doesn't abide by this) The more realistic an XCOM game is, the more fleshed out and dynamic the geoscape, such as factions fighting each other. Another is logistics and supply, The more realistic, the more task demanding logistics and supply is That's about it from me, i could go into more details, but that would be nessescary. As a guy who loves realism and tactical features that also work woth real life tactics, i could rave more on what I'd like to see, but i think that would be unnecessary to put it in this comment. But i dont know. im inviting anyone who reads this to discuss their ideas on the 'divide'. Anyways, great analysis video, i might check out more videos.
I agree that there is a bit of a clear divide - modern XCOM is kind of looked at as more of the "arcadey" style, but the wide range of mods available helps it to appeal and be shaped into almost whatever people want it to be. I see a lot of people that also want the Xenonauts style of game - more grounded and closer to a faithful version of the original XCom style. A large chunk of those fans are not fans of the modern XCOM. Phoenix point has a surprisingly solid mod community and players, and I wish it got more love than it does. Rough launch and some dodgy DLC hurt it a lot, but it has recovered pretty well. I think it is a solid middle ground between modern XCOM and some of the deeper complexities that people want. Personally I would love to see a game really nail all of these things together, but that is a big ask. One with a TON of potential is Mars Tactics, which combines quite a few of the elements being discussed. You should look into it if you haven't!
@GridCommand I've never heard of msrs tactics, was a bit sceptical , searched it up, and damn I would like that game. It semi-nails the realism of combat , which I like (not that I dislike xcon 2's rpg style. Ironically, it's the most played xcom game I have) but I do like it from what I see, I just hope there's at least going to be dynamic spawns (2+ different areas you can deploy your troops on) which I like because it helps me use more realistic tactics I.e (battle position L, 1 side flanks, the other is infront) Phoenix point, I got it on its release, so I have the epic games version. Although I know there's mods that improve it, I'm too lazy to download from Google for the mods. Plus, I just don't like the style of its human soldiers and weaponry. They seem a lot more toyish compared to XCOM, which hurts it's replaying ability for me because I like realism. (Which then led me to door kickers 2, which, as I made obvious I love due to realism) On xenonauts, I have seen tons of videos but never tried it. I never liked the original's graphics, xenonauts 2 seem like an absolute upgrade, but I'm split on buying it to try it early, considering how some research work doesn't even have written descriptions yet. On the idea about the perfect mix of X-COM games, I think it's possible, but it has to be extraordinarily fine-tuned. There's a lot to achieve and much more to balance. In my eyes, it seems almost impossible. Also, as to point out, you really run the risk of making the game too - complex , Phoenix point is complex in simple ways. Xenonauts, from what I see, is quite similar but less glamorous. The 'Perfect X-COM' game may end up adding so much that it becomes too expansive due to the volume of substance that is involved in making it 'perfect'. So honestly, I think it's probabalistically impossible to make. It might be possible, x-com 2 modders have shown themselves as extraordinary in their work, maybe the same level of quality and work is achievable however I doubt it. I would hope to be proven wrong. In my eyes, the perfect X-Com game would be the fourth unmade category of realism. Many X-COM fans hopped over to Door Kickers 2 due to this. For me, what hurts every X-COM/X-COM-like game is the lack of individual realism. I will give a handful of examples: - suppressors don't make guns silent, suppressors, + subsonic ammunition do. - Night vision ( and the lack of it) , how it restricts vision. Door Kickers 2 nails this, monocular give only 40° field of view, binoculars give 80° , 'quad-nods' give 120°, normal is about 140°. - using explosive charges, breaching shotguns. -optics and how they affect accuracy. A single Zoom 4x scope will have most of its benefits at 50m-80m. But an optic with a Zoom lens of 1-4x will have a greater effectiveness at ranges sub 50m. You get the gist. I could say more such as a lack of dynamic weather/storms and recruit backgrounds affecting gameplay, but they have never really been implemented in any strategy games, so I'm just complaining about a lack of something that hasn't been tried yet.
The Steam workshop version of Phoenix Point has some solid mods but nothing that really changes it more towards the realism aspect - the soldiers and weapons customization and look is still the same - and I agree that the look of their human soldiers is just a little bit off the mark. The customization is also pretty shallow. As for Xenonauts 2, I've thought about trying it but from what I've seen and looked into the early access build is still very limited and it's not making progress quickly, which makes me not want to jump in just yet. I've never actually played Door Kickers, looking it up it might be something I take a crack at! I like the setting and look of it. I'd never heard of it before this. The problem you cited with the perfect XCom game is what I think will cause us to never get it - the deep complexity can be a niche preference on its own, and the time to create it and develop it correctly is massive. On top of a fleshed out combat layer and everything else that comes with it. The Mars Tactics dev actually stated that is his biggest challenge and why the game is still unreleased - he is digging into the depths of the strategic layer.
@GridCommand Considering the number of realism fans that play xcom and xcom-like, you would think phoenix Point would have a reskin mod already. I'd agree with your hesitation on xenonauts 2 , but then again, the retcon raider's xenonauts series (19 episode in) is already outdated because it's on a previous version. Plus, it would make me semi hypocritical as door kickers 2 also, is in early access, but then there's a large update just around the corner. About Door Kickers 2 If you ever get into it, feel free to ask me about its complexities and tips for it You are also recommended to check out the channel 'guns and strategies llc' as he makes youtube shorts about urban warfare with door kickers 2. You should check granja the door kicker's video 'Quick CQB °29' as it's a collection of replays of 4 official dev maps. There are more channels if you're interested. But you do make a fair point. The complexity is a cornerstone of the game series I'd argue. What I worry about is if the complexities of all levels (tactical , management , geoscape) will merge together smoothly. The Mars Tactical dev makes a good point. The polishing and precision to make a XCOM-Like game is extraordinary; especially with a community of fans who are very 'pernickety' about how they would like it. If the Mars tactical dev is having problems for a game, that will be simpler than anyone's idea of a 'perfect' X-COM, that says quite a lot. But then again, you could be right. No one can know if it works without trying and to fear it's failure maybe what kills it, instead of the attempt.
xcom 2 was a masterpiece in a lot of ways. It's hard to believe people making xcom 3 could realistically make something even close to the same level. It's hard to say whether making something worth playing instead of replaying xcom 2 is realistic itself. Especially with mods like long war, xcom 2 is one of the ultimate strategy games of its genre, and any game similar to it has too high a floor to breach. I mean, hell, we got Phoenix Point and no one talks about that despite it largely being an xcom game. No one talks about the goofy squad cop game xcom released. We gotta accept there are peaks to art that come around rarely and appreciate it without chasing the dragon
Absolutely. It's a huge mountain to climb even for the original developers considering they not only have to beat XCOM 2 but also the modded versions. Theres a crazy amount of content available
That is probably one of the biggest glaring flaws in the system. Other games like Phoenix Point have the free aim system which I think is a pretty good change
Honestly I'm not sure I want an XCOM 3 simply because we'll never get a Long War mod for it with Pavonis busy on Terra Invicta for the forseeable future, and probably not interested in going back to Long War even when they're done with TI. I haven't played vanilla EW or XCOM 2 in years, Long War is just so much better. The community have done a good job carrying the torch with Long War of the Chosen but I just don't see the same thing happening for a Long War 3.
We absolutelly need it, just add the entrance mecanic of chymera squad in the orignal gameplay of xcom and ofc the lore so we have aliens soldiers, and let us attack the aliens homelands and discover what is hidding under the water... We need the final episode of the reboot before they make some stupid games like we have nowadays ! Please !
They shouldn't reboot it, they should make an actual sequel to the original XCOM where the aliens are invading again and they continue the story, instead of giving a middle finger to the players and running with their stupid "the world was taken over because everybody's first run was a failure" BS. Nobody wanted an x-com game where you've already lost.
i didnt mind midnight suns, there were problems with it tho. alot of qulity of life issues, some cringy dialogue, lack of marketing for the game, i never heard of it until recently but i like it for what it was
I actually liked it a lot for what it was - the dialogue sections and some of the story was a little long winded, and the Abbey stuff felt like a game from 15 years ago, but overall I can say I enjoyed it.
@@GridCommander i should added this, its mostly nitpicking at the game but game still pretty good, its alot more polished then chimera squad i heard, that game has alot of bugs most ppl that saw it problably hated it just because it wasnt xcom, since those both games do not have perm death mechanics
It is definitely better than Chimera Squad, much deeper and better story and combat in my opinion. I agree a lot of people probably saw it was not quite same as XCOM and instantly didn't like it.
Midnight suns combat was great, it was the story and relationship side of the game that brought it down Whoever made to call to have Lilith as the main villain when much better villains exist also bears responsibility, and dating without romance also made the relationship side bad
I really enjoyed the combat! but I did always wonder why Lilith was the choice for the big bad. Also agree with the relationship take, the dialogue and systems felt romance-y but not quite all the way and it leaves it in this awkward spot.
If you want another X-Com, I sincerely recommend Phoenix Point. After the last couple of patches, it's actually pretty great now! 👍 Midnight Suns could have been awesome if only they had the balls to pull the trigger on the more adult aspects of that side of Marvel, i.e. grown-up relationships, blood here and there, death, and alcohol. As it is, it's almost comical how toothless and tame it is in that regard. Especially with characters like Deadpool, Blade and Morbius. Spider-Man finds the *OBVIOUS* corpse of a Hydra soldier on a stretcher in Morbius' lair, and Morbius HAS to say out loud "He'll be fine later." Blade unloads his machine guns on a guy? He's just knocked out, of course! Romance a character? Nah, but can be "very good, close friends." Maybe even hold hands! 🤣
Lol Deadpool was a bit of a disappointment for me as far as how they used his character. I expected it to take the "safe" Marvel route to an extent but looking back on it really does bring up a lot of the points you make 😆 Phoenix Point is awesome by the way! Terror From The Void only makes it better
@GridCommand Yeah, I totally agree about Deadpool! Come on, he's got an ability called "Boom! Headshot!" I mean... It's still a sweet game, and I enjoy it a lot (playing it right now, actually) and that's my only real point of criticism: They want to make a game within the darker, gothic horror side of Marvel with witches, satanic cults and vampires, but you know... For the whole family! 🤣🤣🤣 And yeah, Pheonix Point too, man. That game is super underappreciated! It got a bad rep at the start (Epic exclusive, buggy AF launch), but the devs really put a ton of love and care into it, I think. Would go so far as to say it is now the X-Com 3 we never had, since War of the Chosen left on "Terror From the Deep" kind of cliffhanger! 😁
That's the way I always saw Phoenix Point too, it almost feels like a continuation with how closely it plays to X-Com. I'm glad the modding community is working their magic on it, the game seems to be having a little bit of a resurgence right now and I'm all for it
@@necasperaterent29386Midnight Suns is fun if you just focus on the battles and ignore the goofy extracurriculars. It's very satisfying to build and mod your deck and watch the heros take on new meaning and become powerhouses. Also the oddball combos you can create. Blade and Wolverine? Who knew these two could become one turn map cleaners. Or a support Hunter and Captain Marvel. Absolutely brutal.
One thing I think midnight Suns did very well was the hero roles and how they could compliment each other. The versatility of Hunter made it even better
I guess the best we'd get as Xcom 3 would be Troubleshooter imitation. A lot of set unique characters that each have their story and relationships. Not that I'm against it, but it's just not XCOM after all.
Sorry, not sorry, but any ascended XCOM fan treats their game and crew as a life/dating sim in as much as a turn based strat wargame, that's just the natural progression of what happens. Jake is simply doing for real as an actual product what we've been doing to our games for years, treating it as. Mod dude wouldn't spend years and years developing X-Piratez if he just wanted a pure wargame about fighting ayyys. I wouldn't be pushing 1000 mods in XC2 if I wasn't making it a life sim of earth under alien occupation. Also, what would they even do with XCOM 3 anyways? 2's ending implied at best a sort of retelling of Terror From The Deep. There's nothing or nowhere to really take the story, they could have had something like Apocalypse maybe, in that reuniting Earth is a far harder goal than they thought, but Chimera Squad already did the Earth is healing thing, so there's really nowhere else to take the story imo. Also friendship and relations aren't new or "Jake's big thing", relations were a thing early as Apocalypse
Xcom 2 and Civ 6 are the only games that I play from their eras. Just finished a yet another Xcom 2 Legendary run last week. It still has a lot of legs. I tried Chimera and just didn’t like the mechanics/gameplay.
Chimera strayed a little too far from the XCom basics IMO - I didn't mind the breaching part so much though, i could see that being a usable mechanic in certain situations for a future game.
As much as I want an XCOM 3, the IP holder 2K isn't the best at handling their monetization fetish. For a biased take, Midnight Suns card system is actually a dealbreaker for me and a bunch of my friends. We all love tactical strategies and RPGS, and a lot of us didn't mind relationship systems since a lot of Japanese TRPGS like Fire Emblem does this a lot at great success. A lot of us didn't even gave the game a chance simply because of the card system. What really killed Midnight Suns, however, is likely the Marvel IP. A regular success isn't going cut the profits for the big Mouse.
2Ks monetization fetish is probably one of the biggest factors keeping it from being made honestly. I can understand not liking the card system, most games with it I don't enjoy. I was surprised how much I actually liked Midnight Suns. Definitely not without its issues though - monetization, Denuvo, IP, etc.
More than xcom 3, I'd like to get xcom anthology (incl all xcom games ever) released on PS5. I would never understand why Chimera never been released to PS system.
That's a good idea! I'm sure it would sell too. I think chimera was looked at as a bit of a failure and kind of throwaway project - they haven't really supported it much at all since launch
@@GridCommander idea of Chimera was, hmmm, peculiar. Appealed to be a fanfic rather than a rightful instalment, yet I do not get it why they didn't do a port, cause they do have experience and tools to do it.
Eventually someone will put together a game basically just like x com because they are inspired by x com and wish it was still around and not abandoned like how that indi dev made war grove because Nintendo won’t make an advanced wars game like the old days
Personally, I don't think I'd like an xcom3. For me, the best part about xcom1 was just how simplified it was overall. You had a few dudes, a few grenades and you basically just fought a few enemies at a time that the game put in front of you. xcom2 went for more complexity and introduced more timers and different ways to approach the non-combat stuff, and war of the chosen went all-in on specific individuals trying to tell a more conventional story. I'm afraid that if they went to make xcom3, they would basically just take xcom2 and add a bunch of stuff to it. I would be much more interested in a game if they just took the basic combat framework of xcom1 and adapted it to some other model they wanted. xcom2 is great, but I honestly don't think I would have gotten into it if I didn't sink a bunch of time into xcom1 first. The simplicity is what really makes me like these games, not the complexity.
There is a very fine line between simplicity and complexity, and overly complex games can really spiral into bogged down or redundant mechanics pretty quickly. I can agree, I prefer simplicity and approachability but with a touch of some deeper mechanics as well. A very difficult balance to achieve if they were to try for a third game.
Nuclear take but I think Long War 1 was peak nu-xcom. Very fun and a lot of depth to tactical battles, with the strategy layer preserved, but not so much strategic micromanagement required. A perfect blend of arcadey EW and OG xcom. But XCOM2 and WOTC moved even further away from that and I'd be worried XCOM3 would be too arcadey and lack the depth needed for a proper XCOM game
Yah no more Chimera Squad that wasnt my cup of tea. Read it was a game I purchased purley based on the ip, but later regretted it. Not bad perhaps, but not my thing atleast. there is other games in the genre that is promesing or good. But Xcom was literally the first game I purchased with my own money for my pc back when the ip was held by the French brothers. So I've been invested in the ip for some time. I still fire up Xcom 2 and play that frequently, just a mission here and there for some quick and fun times. One of the few games I never uninstall..
Its frustrating when sequels take forever. The original staff move on and often the magic is lost. Its been so long since XCOM 2 now that i fear its just not gonna stick very well.
The main issue.... Is X com never had character development. Relationship between characters and anything else was not in the game, or at least, we see so little about it. It offers lore and some mystery but the only memorable npcs were The Chosen ones, and they are dead xp.
True, it would have been nice if they could've found a little bit more of a middle ground. Not as heavy as midnight Suns but not quite as bare as it was
The only reason for a game to get a sequel is to improve the previous game. Xcom 2, while no where near perfect, is probably the best it’s ever going to get. And thats mostly because of the modding community. I don’t think it is worth getting a worse game just to have the story continued.
That's kind of where I'm at with it too. It would have to be a monumental achievement to put out a game that is better and can do more than the current mods of XCOM 2
i dont wish for an xcom 3, i wish xcom 2 simply wrapped up the story. if you cant 100 percent commit to finishing a story, dont end it on a cliffhanger for fucks sakes.
So Sad jake left firaxis i fear if they ever release xcom3 it will be some cartoony type game, or worse something like Chimera Squad, and as for midnight sun totaly hate it
@@GridCommander I shudder to think if that would be the case,In truth I do not see another game as good as xcom2,To me the premis is simple you start with getting your ass kicked and battle on till you start to dish it out, all encased in Jake Solomans graphics. That is all we would want. Yes new Aliens and new maps, perhaps take Xcom off world? Just more or less more of the same......Too much to ask? Probably.
if they wanted learn how to do perma-death in a tactical game with strong characters they literally just had to look at the kaga-era fire emblem games. not the gameboy or modern era ones, which just ignore perma death for the story. sadly, imo, xcom is one of those games that is greatly harmed by that stupid Nemesis patent that WB has that prevents immersive storytelling in games😅
There is a 97% Chance of getting an XCOM3. *RNG* MISS. Guess we aren't getting it.
Pinned
That's X-COM baby.
you gotta drop an evac zone before moving in close, just in case that 100% is just a >99,5% rounding error
lmaoooooooooooooo
I’d love to see more XCOM but I don’t trust any modern game developers. Do it right or don’t do it at all.
The developers aren't the problem, the publishers are.
@@ziff_1 No the developers are the problem too. They suck at making videogames lately, for every bg3 and elden ring there's a redfall and redfall situations are more and more common.
I wish Larian could do Xcom.
The chances of XCOM 3 being a live service too high that i dont want it
It would be terrible 😭
I hadn't considered this - it's a horrific idea. You have to be mad to do it give the current failures but they keep trying.
"Buy 10 disposable AI targeting modules, a consumable that guarantees perfect shots each time."
As someone with over 12k hours in XCOM 2, it was because of mods. I don't know if X3 could do any justice compared to what mods already do. The modding community is so strong that they could make X3, if they wanted to. I talk to modders all the time, and the things they can do with this old game is just amazing. If you have never played XCOM 2 modded, you are missing a lot. Covert Infiltration changed the game to the point that I cannot even play it without it. MOCX makes it so you have XCOM enemies that use same tactics as XCOM. More enemies than Firaxis ever made. Strong modders like RustyDios, Reshi, MrCloista, RealityMachina, ShadowX, Deadput, FeartheBunnies, Aero, Iridar, and Kexx, as well as so many others that I cannot put them all here. They make XCOM2 what it is today, and I know if X3 happens, it will have a lot to try and simulate or make better. Because if its not as good as modded X2, it will fail.
Ive never heard of MOCX - sounds interesting and that's one I'll have to add to the collection!
Mods definitely have had a huge impact on the longevity of the game, and you bring up a good point. Most people would just come back to X-Com 2 modded if X-Com 3 did not deliver on all fronts or bring something really new to the table. Or if they were to take Mod support away in a future X-Com game, I think people would probably not even bother.
@GridCommand if any new xcom game doesn't have mod support it'll flat out fail. Chimera squad has less mod support than xcom 2 and as such has a tiny amount of modders who've bothered with it for any reason other than mining it for assets. Midnight suns had no mod support and flopped commercially as a result.
I think I have over 1k hours on XCOM2 Xbox. I really wish I had a PC to play games on for mods though
1k hours without mods is impressive
@@GridCommander it’s just a lot of fun creating characters of my friends and family and trying my hardest not to let them die. Seeing who becomes heroes in one play through, while in another they don’t make it. It’s a very fun game to role play with I feel. I bet there are mods that make character customization even more in-depth that I would love to use though.
I'd love an XCOM 3, but I don't know what they could change or add to make it much better than Xcom 2. One thing I would like to see is them bring back the horror/mystery aspect from enemy unknown. Xcom 2 is great for gameplay but I have always missed that creepy and mysterious feeling from EU. But even if we don't get an XCOM 3, Xcom 2 with mods is one of the most repayable games I have ever played. So many things you can. You can have 100s of hours with the base game, and then countless more with mods. Not to mention the original games from 1997, and terror from the deep. Gems in their own right as well. Absolute master pieces as well. And the game from 2012 that got me into Xcom, Xcom EW.
TLDR: I want Xcom 3 if it's done well, but don't know where the franchise can go from here.
If you are the into sci-fi horror ish aspect you can look into Phoenix Point with the Terror From The Void mod. Very true XCom like experience. I have a video that talks about it a little on my channel.
@@GridCommander thanks for the recommendation, I'll surely check it out!
Well a reason for that was because it was all new, the aliens were unknown (pun not intended) so discovering, dissecting and interrogating them and learning new tidbits of information was part of the intrigue that pulled you into this world.
Xcom 2 tried to continue this very same story, so it couldn’t rely on the same mystery by design, even with some new enemy designs. But a lot were callbacks to enemy unknown deliberately for nostalgia.
But I agree, they still could’ve leaned into the horror aspect way more, after all the setting is a lot more bleak than Enemy Unknown, now not random people are abducted and experimented on, but the entire population of earth is industrially harvested essentially, it’s way more dystopian than the first one yet it feels so lighthearted in play like you’re just the yankees rebelling against the redcoats.
The atmosphere in EU was definitely a different feeling than that of XCOM 2. The redcoats comparison is spot on 😆
@@Icetea-2000 for sure I get what you mean about them continuing the same story, and I love the comparison to redcoats. Somehow the first game where you have funding from all these big nations has a more bleak atmosphere than the game where you've lost and now you half a dozen rebels who have resorted to using machetes.
Death only matters if the characters can develop relationships. Imagine having a survivor from a 1st and second generation squads, now you are in your majority 3d and 4th gen with a jagged veteran from the 1st one with appropriate dialogue. RPG story telling is endless with that kind of high stakes on board. It requieres good writers though
That would actually be amazing if done right
@@GridCommander Who knows, maybe with a more developed AI system in a few years you can have endless permutations of dialogue.
I feel like someone needs to grasp the horns and make their own stuff.
No one can do it "right" but do it properly and you may just claim the Throne.
Honestly I'm really surprised there hasn't been another developer thats copied the formula properly yet
I really want to see XC3, but don't care about the social/relationship side that seems to be the popular trend in games these days. Give me chains of command, leadership ratings, morale, specializations and personality quirks/strengths/shortcomings, but stay away from card play, zombies and superhero antics.
It seems like a simple enough formula doesn't it? 🤔
Honestly, that core XCOM2 experience is a licence to print money. Bit of a mystery why so many imitations have failed to nail it but it may indeed come down to the absense of that OG team. There really is no need to change much aside from the obvious improvements to graphical fidelity and (especially) optimisation. Whatever may be coming our way, it won't be anytime soon.
Gears wars Tactics was a good imitation, but thats it nothing else is even close.
@@MrAngellicDevil I liked some of the things Gears Tactics implemented. The boss battles were pretty cool
Phoenix point was a mess at the beginning but turned out a good game.
Maybe we will get a PP2
I thought Chimera Squad's exploration of the humor and interpersonal relations in a post-war multi-species society on Earth was unique and very cool. I'd be happy to see more exploration of that in a bigger story of a war of multi-species Earth against the Ethereals and their minions across a lot of locations/environments, ending on the Ethereal capital world. You don't need to make X-COM 3 into a dating sim to deliver that. And none of the xcom-like franchises can deliver that.
That does actually sound like an interesting idea. And you're right, it wouldn't have to be full on dating sim style
I felt the opposite about Chimera Squad. I don't want to hear about the poor snakes and sectoids, I want xenos to go home. Earth is for Humans. The characters were pretty annoying to me, and I especially didn't like that it wasn't possible to make my own recruits.
The indie scene is going to come in and fill the XCOM vacuum. We already have series like Xenonauts which is a throwback to the classic 90s XCOM, and there's Mars Tactics coming which is a homage to the XCOM reboot style of gameplay. It's been long enough that people are getting hungry for more XCOM like experiences so I anticipate that we'll see a few more indie offerings soon.
There are quite a few in the works on the indie scene! Mars Tactics is one im looking forward to. Someone will fill the void eventually if firaxis doesn't.
Xenonauts 2 is good, I think it's time to get back to it. I play it every couple of months, then wait for updates, repeat.
That's one I've had wishlisted for awhile and been keeping tabs on. The devs seem to be making steady progress
I am a lot more attached to my squad members in XCOM 2 than the heroes in Midnight Sun despite them being just randomly generated characters with no special dialogue.
Same - in my opinion one thing about midnight Suns and marvel characters was you just kinda know in the back of your head that they can't really "die"
Been a while since I've seen conversations about XCOM, might get back into it. Thanks
As someone who is very much invested in the new XCOM games (I've run several RPs set in X2 setting, and are in the process of writing two fics in the world, plus I've played the game many times), I too would rather have xcom die on a high note, than be run into the grond like Halo, Mass Effect and countless other titles turned over to a new team.
If there is to be an XCOM 3, I'd like it to be a narrative continuation of XCOM 3, which should include mechanics. In X1 and X2 the "scale" of the game did fit the narrative relatively well, where in X1 you were a covert, underfunded UN organization, and in X2 you have a single resistance group, which thanks to the Avenger can spearhead the liberation efforts, but you lack a structured, government level support. In the context of the post - victory world, such approach would not make sense.
The Earth was liberated, so you have a access to milions of possible recruits, assistance from countless new city states and nations which would reappear after the defeat of advent. Naturally however, some of those nations would be at odds with one another, or with you (XCOM). And on top of that the problem of merging society between the sheep who lived in the city centres and the 10% or so of people who lived in the wilds and independent settlements.
The enemy which is hinted at in XCOM 2 is also.. much more serious that Ethereal Collective ever was. From what we can gather , aliens had pretty much no off - Earth holdings and their invasion fleet revolved around one mother ship (the Temple Ship), which btw moved on before events of XCOM 2. And the enemy which pursuded the Ethereals, is mentioned to have destroyed the homeworld of said species, and with other planets. And more importantly, Ethereals were fleeing from it, and as wotc revealed, still decided to flee Earth as soon as possible once Avatar was complete. This means the enemy narratively should be significantly more dangerous than Advent and Ethereal Collective.
Technology should also have improved, so it makes zero sense for XCOM not to begin with plasma and magnetic technologies, as well as entry into space technologies, and potentially colonization of other planets and systems.
With the following, we have the perfect landscape for 2 types of games: a 4X strategy, similar to Terra Invicta, where you have to coordinate the assets provided by different nations to stage a global defence, or a political simulator.
The problem is, both would require good writing to pull off, something that I do not think Firaxis has an experience , or writing team to do. X2's world and writing was good enough (especially if you consider potential of unreliable narration, and the Asaru theory, which fixes all the issues with the narrative), but it was largely a skeleton, and relied on headcannon to fill the blanks in it - something that won't be possible to do in the post - war world. A shift to grand strategy would also be a big change in identity of the series
I appreciate the time and knowledge put into this comment, and you're absolutely correct. To continue the series, it would make little sense to just have XCom busted down to an organization with barely anything again. If it were to be done, it would probably be a half baked tropey plot device of some sort (oh no surprise invasion we lost everything type deal). This does in fact change the core idea of the game, and 4X seems like a natural pivot in that scenario.
It would be very interesting to see a grand strategy in the XCom universe. 4X games come with their own issues IMO but if done correctly and written properly it would be an excellent way to continue the series without destroying the foundation that's been set up already.
I've played all of Fireaxis' XCOM series and for some reason I could guess how the XCOM 3 would go in terms of world building and story, especially after playing Chimera Squad. Rn I am very much looking forward for the series to use everything the have learned from Chimera Squad and put em into XCOM 3, with each operator consists of different alien races. I do have a lot of concerns with the game's direction since how most game development studios and producers are like nowadays.
Humans + Aliens united against an even bigger threat
There’s still passionate and creative developers out there and perhaps still with Firaxis. But Firaxis is under 2K and TakeTwo so… Hopefully! HOPEFULLY! The suits see what Larian accomplished with Baldur’s Gate 3 and go for that approach. But I’m being naive in thinking that :/
I believe there is still a team that can do the game justice. Never give up hope! 🙏
XCOM is an immortal PC game franchise that was fantastically remade and implemented. Iron-man mode XCom is one of the few games that made me care about my soldiers. The only character I remember now from all of 100s of hours of XCom is the first senior officer I lost. That battle had felt like a symphony up to that point: bold moves that eviscerated all of the bad dudes save one pathetic near-dead floater.
Then instantly, with a single enemy act, the whole day transformed.
Mary "Wednesday" Wilson, my goto Assault finisher...dies to a floater grenade from the very maximum range after finishing off three Chrysalids that were about to eat some bunched up fresh meats who got themselves out of position. The very last enemy, on its very last act, at its max range, with it's minimum damage potential.
She died for the rest of the squad right in front of them. I went to the in-game bar something like twenty times to hoist a whiskey and deal with the post-trauma in-character issues. I role played the commander's experience: mentally wrote the letter to her parents, faced the troops at the morning-after reveille, tapped her successor. And returned to the bar, usually saying little to the troops in those brief visits. They knew I had their backs. They also knew why I was there.
_______________
The "superpowers wielded by unique characters with pro voice actors" path that XCom2 took at the very end DLC was effectively a dead end...once XCom soldiers are voice by Michael Dorn and company, and are nearly too important to the game experience to "just die"...what's left? Yup, someone suggested "let's make an entire XCOM-alike game with bespoke heroes so important that we really can't have permadeath"?. In a time when people are clearly dead tired of men-in-tights superhero toyz? Oops.
In "XCom3: Depths of Vengeance" I could have played as a contender. I could have been someone's commander. Instead I'm just a bum, which is what I am, let's face it.
R.I.P. Wednesday 🫡
X-Com 1 & vanilla 2 did an amazing job of telling the story without being centered around specific characters and still having the "back against the wall" atmosphere and tension. It was just a ragtag band of soldiers trying to do their best to beat back the alien threat. Casualties were expected. I understand the idea of wanting to tell a central story and trying to make characters everyone loves, but that is such a personal thing it's very hit or miss even when done well. Just leave it up to the player and let us make...and lose...who we want. Seems simple 🤷🏻
The stories each of us have with our soldiers. I had a star sniper Schneider “Athena”. They were there from the start to the end, hitting 50%s like they were the broad side of the barn.
I had a similar experience with Amanda "Ragtime" Perry, a combat medic specialist I was farming in order to get the "Stay With Me" thing. She got all the way to Major, nobody else was CLOSE to her, but she was the only medic so she kept going out. One day, on a mission, a sloppy move of mine put her in a flanked position and she got killed, and it felt REALLY bad because I was the one to push her to there. I had a couple other deaths in that run, like a critical headshot to a fresh psionic boi or my upcoming gunslinger being shaken, yet still put up to the front lines and dying for it, but I straight up couldn't touch the game for a bit in my mourning for Ragtime.
How is it that this game can make you care so much for mooks.
If asked 'How do we do an XCOM 3?' This is what I'd suggest to them.
You need a scenario in which the scale is relatively small in practice, but presents itself as large.
My solution to that would be to focus on a recon effort into the territory of that looming threat from the end of WotC.
Missions would be in the style of XCOM2 in terms of 'get in, do objective, get out before being overwhelmed'.
Strategic stealth (like covering up information about XCOM) would be a major factor of gameplay. Leaving bodies or gear behind would give the enemy more info on XCOM and Humanity. Think of it as being on the other end of XCOM 1's missions, you are the force striking with surprise, but the more your enemies learn about you the harder they'll ramp up.
Structuring the enemy as a hegemonic/feudal style empire would allow for a plausible limit to how much force/resources they could/would bring against the recon team.
Ultimately it would be framed as a first contact/information war, about the recon team learning more than the enemy does about humanity.
There would have to be a transition point in both narrative and gameplay terms from the skirmishing XCOM 1 and XCOM 2 fighting to a more open warfare situation.
I would essentially break the game up into 3 phases for this.
1. First Contact (Assault Recovery).
This is the XCOM 1 style raids to learn the lay of the galactic landscape, find the borders of ruler jurisdictions and get a handle on what the enemy tech is like. Enough info would convince humanity's governing council that we need to hit first and peace isn't an option. A soft failure state for this is the enemy getting enough info to do the same and launch it's own first strike. That would push you into a highly pressured phase 2 framed as stalling the enemies ability to martial to war while humanity scrambles to match them. The player is working with limited logistics and thus has strict budgets for this phase, but command encourages 'field requisitions'.
2. Preparatory Strikes (Sabotage before D-Day.)
This is the XCOM 2 style strikes on strategic assets and locations located during phase 1 and phase 2. Places with fortifications and guards, much faster enemy response times and the enemy's XCOM equivalent dropping in as a soft enrage timer to pressure you. Objectives would be less pass/fail and more margins of victory, so players need to balance the scale of damage done to the risks they're taking with their forces. Eventually either the time before humanity takes the offensive runs out or the enemy makes a major offensive move. The player again is working with what logistics can be spared (in part because you did so well already or because humanity is scrambling.) but now instead of sending stuff back to the core worlds it'd be put to use locally. (Oppressive regimes breed resistance and feudal style power players don't care where the deniable weapons come from.)
3. Open Warfare (Special Forces)
This would be the new, larger scale engagement setup, with linked missions in a branching pass/fail setup as this elite team hits targets to shift the tide of bigger battles that simply wouldn't be meaningful to try and implement directly on screen. If you've seen LW2 style raids with lots of defending settlement NPC's vs lots of aliens, you know why that needs to be avoided. Depending on how the overall strategic situation is going, the player may have wide latitude to throw around munitions like confetti. (If they're doing well.) If they've been having a rough go of it, more desperate mission types and tools come into play. (Release this engineered plague into the atmosphere system of a vital fueling station that has non-combatants is an example of something you wouldn't see if things were going well.) The phase would be a tug of war for territory and resources, with the player not directly making strategic decisions at scale, but given latitude to intervene anywhere they see fit. (Either because they've done so well, or because higher ups are too busy bickering to clamp down on them.)
The endgame states would be either the collapse of humanities frontier colonies closest to the enemy (opening up a 'what if that went poorly?' sequel or expansion and leaving narrative space open.) or the ending of offensive operations in this border region with conquest completed. (opening up a 'what does the enemy do next and how does XCOM's elite strike force contribute?' sequel or expansion.)
A good chunk of a third game's challenge is giving a compelling framing for retaining the smaller scale and limited resources to work with. It's my opinion that this is surmountable, especially because we the audience are on board with such from the start. Would I like a 4x style game? Sure, but that is best fit for a spin off, not a mainline XCOM title. XCOM has always been about an outmatched force with limited resources made of all too mortal soldiers outfighting a foe that vastly outweighs them.
This is an extremely well thought out reply! I appreciate you taking the time to detail it out, and I think it is absolutely a great framework for what a third game could be without losing the feeling of small squads desperately fighting.
I really like the resource tug of war and this would also lay framework for said 4X spinoff, or even an expansion style DLC like WOTC to continue with how the enemy would counter, or if things went poorly what events would come of that.
Lowkey thought chimera squad was terrible
You aren't the only one 😆
Even the characters sucked.
I thought it was decent as a spinoff, but decent spinoffs only work when there's still something going on with the main series (or the main series sucked to begin with). Otherwise they just feel like inferior replacements. Chimera Squad definitely feels like an inferior replacement.
Can't you just think it was terrible? why "lowkey"?
I liked Chimera Squad and the Characters. I liked Torque and Verge and Cherub
I would love to see it. Firaxis clearly knows what they are doing in regards to the strategy of the series ----- in my wet dream, I would love a game of xbox 2's strategic depth paired with the writing of obsidian!
That would be epic.
Imho, our best chance to see a new XCOM is through modding, at least that's what I did with XCOM: Enemy Within. It's surprising what you can achieve with modding. In my case, I've been working in a total overhaul of Long War. Adding new layers to the tactical layers, reworking classes, modding physics, etc... Maybe if fans create something really special with modding xcom1 and xcom2, we might bring back the original firaxis team aboard
Long War Eternal Nightmare is a fitting name for a longer Long War 😆 jokes aside though that's awesome! EW is great with the extra additions of EXALT and Meld. I am always blown away by the new things I see come from modding
I absolutely loved midnight suns. the amount of work that went into that game must have been huge because the social sim part of it was literally full of all the comic book stories that characters experienced over the years. as a longtime marvel fan that game was a blast for me. But I also adore Xcom. wish they continued with both midnight suns style games and xcom games.
I feel like there is a way to meet in the middle. I'm a more casual marvel fan and I actually really enjoyed the depth in Midnight Suns, it blew me away.
I kinda liked how in Chimera Squad, with the fact that we have aliens under our command, was explaining what is the world after defeating Advent. Like there is no global currency and economy, so if you were a rich guy in City 31 you were nobody in other cities (not to mention that thing is called by a number and not with actual name), that Floyd Tesseract guy, who in his broadcast said that they didnt have to use that much of their psionic powers for people to believe Advent and you should not believe in bulllcrap said by some rando in the radio, whatever the hell Burger Palace, former known as Advent Burger, is doing, Vipers being technically earthlings since they were born on Earth, Clones being formally children due to their age, Mutons having cats, Sectoids not having cats, etc. etc.
For a cheap little game (and on the release Chimera Squad was super duper cheap with -50% sale like I dont even), which basically was a experiment for new game mechanics, had some excellent world building.
I tend to forget that Chimera Squad was as cheap as it was. I got it for 10$ at launch and you're right - it had a lot packed in it for not a lot of money. I didn't mind the idea and lore of seeing what the world is like after Advent, my main gripe is the characters in general just felt poorly done (in my opinion).
The powers that be have evaporated two of my messages. All I wanted was to recommend a mod for UFO Defense called the "X-Com Files" and while I'm being prevented from describing it, it's entirely worth looking into if you can stand the original UI.
I've played the original but never looked into mods for it - I'll check it out! Thanks for the recommendation
I tried midnight Suns, it was just okay. My biggest hang up was the three person squad limit, with no way to upgrade it
That is a fair concern. It didn't bother me too much in the end, but it definitely would've been nice to be able to bring more
@@GridCommanderI wish it went to 4-5
Endless mode with a big roster would be great
Fire emblem has already proven you can have interpersonal relationships in a permadeath strategy game
Mind you fire emblem also proves that isn’t always a good thing (stares at fates)
There's an old saying of don't reinvent the wheel. There are living examples of devs doing just that. The Bueareau, X-com enforcer, and X-com interceptor. The likely hood that we get X-com 3 as Jake solomon's team teased (TFTD) is incredibly small. At this point I would say going back to basics would be the call for what's needed. Look at what the old games did that was so beloved, IE deep tech trees, geoscape, actually expendable troops that often died in one shot on the easiest difficulties. Large squad sizes and the ability to intercept with Multiple fighters and go out on patrols. X-com will always have a fond place in my heart. I've beaten both x-com enemy unknown/within, and x-com 2/WOTC. I'm not a long war fan but I see the appeal. anyways thanks for the vid. Sorry for catching it several months late. Looking forward to girls frontline 2 though which I'm hoping will carry the torch for me.
Going back to the basics is probably the best call - I think a fine line can be struck between the modern game and classic, as each still have die hard fans of their own. Mars Tactics is a game I'm keeping an eye on that looks to have a good blend of the two! Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment, and thanks for the Girls Frontline 2 name drop, I'd never heard of it before!
@@GridCommander I've been eye balling mars tactics. May give some gameplay a watch when it comes out. So mild interest is there for me at least.
Check out the channel for MORE X-Com and Turn-Based Tactics gaming content!
www.youtube.com/@gridcommand?sub_confirmation=1
Queremos que salga xcom 3 ... go go go... xcom 3.
I've given up on XCOM 3 in the same way I've given up on Half Life 3.
The ending of xcom 2 makes me think that the elders planted a device that unleash a biological weapon that'll irradiate the entire planet and anyone that didn't find shelter would be turned into zombies and maybe even have a new enemy make a appearance since the elders said something about a danger that was coming and they wanted to prepare for it
sounds like a good start to the next game to me 🤔
If an XCOM 3 is coming, then I hope that, as with Civ 7, Firaxis will at least make use of the other games of this type. For example, that they incorporate the things that Phoenix Point did better into their game. And that they hire some real authors this time.
I would hope that they would look at the improvements to the formula from other games, as some of them have really great twists on the standard mechanics. A clearly defined canon story would be nice but I feel like that's asking too much 😆
I don't know when, but yes, yes we do REALLY Want It.
🤞🤞
X3 has such a high bar of expectations that I’m worried. Even if it does happen, and it’s not just another chimera squad or midnight suns, and it does follow properly after X2, it probably still becomes what I call a “zombie game.” A game that comes out, is given a respectable attention by the players in the genre for about a week, and then is left to die. I’ve seen so many xcom-likes disappear so quickly and I think the term xcom-likes has a lot to do with it. By calling these games xcom-likes, we associate these games with xcom, a game that not only was groundbreaking on release, but has even further developed WAYYY out of proportion over the last 8 years thanks to the absolutely incredible modding community. Expecting these games to feel the same as xcom is unfair, and that’s why we leave them to die, so we can go play more xcom. Now, this is what I’m afraid will happen to xcom 3. I just can’t see the skeleton of a development team having anywhere near the creative power to match what xcom 2 has become. If it doesn’t match modded xcom 2, we will leave it to die and just play more xcom 2. Xcom 2 is getting even better every day, and has an 8-year [and counting] head start. 8 years worth of modding development is very hard to catch up to. At this point, I think the modding community would make a better xcom 3 than Firaxis ever could. That said though, there may be a little bit of hope left. ChristopherOdd mentioned someone during his recent xcom EW campaign, (sorry I don’t remember the name), but he was a pretty major player in xcom 2 and he is still at Firaxis. If xcom 3 will ever be able to reach the extremely high bar set by xcom 2, and the even higher bar set by mods, he would be the most likely one to do it.
I agree, calling everything "XCom but ____" has probably hurt the genre more than anything because most of them will never come close to hitting that mark and the expectations out of the gate are high.
The mod community has singlehandedly redefined XCom 2 multiple times, and I'm afraid of the same thing you are with 3. XCom has become something all its own and I'm not sure the developers could ever top that.
It would be a live-service nowadays.
XCOM should stay preserved in the era it was made, for the better.
I’m of two minds about this topic.
On one hand, I would love to see an XCOM game where we get to go on the offensive; or at least get a new twist on where battles can take place (anyone down for a From The Deep remake?).
On the other hand, I absolutely DO NOT trust modern developers to do it justice. While I enjoyed Chimera Squad for what it was, I don’t want to see the entire franchise be that level of character driven. I like the interesting base personnel (Bradford, Vallen, the Shens, and Tigen). But the main core of the storytelling is making custom soldiers, getting randomly generated soldiers, and watching as the gameplay itself writes the narrative. That’s part of what makes XCOM great. I wouldn’t _mind_ smaller scale character-driven stories like The Bureau or Chimera Squad popping up again, but the main games need to hold that main core of “OMG! The random rookie just pulled off a clutch Overwatch shot and saved the mission!! What a legend!” and I don’t trust _anyone_ to do that correctly right now.
Unfortunately I agree. The character creation and organic stories that come from it really are the core of the XCOM experience. Each rookie is a lottery ticket and you grow their story as they go.
I hope they can find a fine line between having some set characters and story driven content while also keeping the core battle to battle and soldier investment the same - but I really don't trust any modern devs to do it justice either.
since the ending of X2 teased an underwater enemy, Id love to see underwater and maybe air combat. you could control a submarine as an HQ and put diving gear on and stuff.
I would love to see that!
I'm just happy that XC2 exists.
i feel like xcom 3 would have to push the boundaries of the tacitcal turn based genre in the correct direction and currently that boundary is still in the fog. so until the genre starts being confined, even with modding, xcom 3 isn't ready to be made.
story wise, 1 is invasion, 2 is occupation, following the trend 3 would be liberation. i could see the story line being along the lines of capturing an alien ship, and using it to liberating the various enemies species from the conquering overlords or something similar. and as you liberate worlds you can start recruiting and using tech from that species.
Great response, I agree 100% and like the liberation idea
So basically, they started Xcom3, got an offer from Marvel, got distracted, shelved Xcom3 as Chimera Squad and made a marvel game instead. It sold poorly and Firaxis had layoffs. Now they will go back to Civ 6 and Xcom3 may never come.
Basically
I want an Xcom style game - but set in Stargate universe.
Travel to planets - discover lore and tech - and turn based fighting.
id even pay 60-70€ for a good game like that!
That sounds awesome!
They kinda did that, Stargate: Timekeepers.
I need Xcom 3. I need it because I have seen XCOM first time in 1995 - It was second game terror from the deep and I felt i love with that game. Unfortunately my computer was weak at that time and I had to play OG enemy unknown. Which I fell in love with too. Later with new machine I played TFTD for years. And X2 ending suggested exactly that in new Xcom (which is far superior to the original). So yes I need X3. But only if done properly.
I do not understand the hate for chimera squad. Sure it lack strategic layer. But the game is pure fun. Its so well designed. I just enjoy it from time to time. So far I finished it more than 3 times. I would say that its only fault is that we all wanted X3 and we did get “just” Chimera squad. Breach system is just brilliant…❤
I do really like the breach system and would love to see it implemented into missions in a future X-Com game! A proper TFTD-styled modern game would be amazing
@@GridCommander Exactly - Only mods for Xcom2 I am really looking for are some whoch would change the style from G.I.JOE to realistic modern army style (or police special forces) I did not find any with good feeling yet - maybe later.
I've looked for something similar to that as well but have had a hard time finding something that fits outside of cosmetics
Have Larian Studios make it... they can certainly do turn based tactics and it could be a little side project for them...
Somebody else commented this on another video. Would be a dream come true
Honestly I always felt that XCOM 2 was entirely carried by its customization rather than its inherent mechanics.
Besides all the small quality of life improvements like being able to reload and move in the same turn, there’s equally as much just minor annoying shit.
Even if it’s more barebones and a little bit more clunky, I’ll always feel the EW gameplay experience is much better balanced and doesn’t become frustrating nearly as often.
That being said, I’m still glad I have a game where I can have 37th President of the United States Richard M. Nixon and Grunkle Stan team up to kick alien ass.
I wish EW had steam workshop support also 😔
Camera Squad didn't go far enough with character relationships, but I agree it shouldn't be in 3 or any mainline game. It should be spinoffs or side stories focused heroes and named characters from the mainline game. XCOM Declassified could be reworked into a side story with a full fledge relationship system with proper turn-based combat but make the main character the 'spokesman.' Other spin off ideas are a story of Dr. Vahlen after the event of XCOM 1, resistance/faction building before XCOM 2, or a story about Central's experience before XCOM 1.
Great ideas! I'm honestly surprised they didn't do any spinoffs with the factions Central or Vahlen
XCOM 2 is honestly a fantastic base of a game that they could just push decent DLCs at the level of war within if they wanted to.
I 100% agree that live service is where they will take the franchise or a reboot due to a new game lead since Jake has left Firaxis.
I'd be happy with just DLC if it meant keeping the core experience the same
The last thing I want from the XCOM franchise is one where XCOM is finally on the Offensive. I wanna raid their world this time
Absolutely! So many possibilities
In my eyes (not a game developer, just a modern XCOM fan) if you were to simply take WOTC update the graphics, add Phoenix Point’s “Fine aim”, and maybe (huge maybe) research carry over from 2 to 3. Or if you like doing all the research and having to start from square one again maybe a bio-virus eats through lily’s systems and wipes all their data and connects to any offsite locations to wipe it there too.
I’m gonna be honest though, i like the idea of starting with all the previous research done. That said, maybe new weapons and armor. Maybe the “Final Enemy” could be a Biomechanics race necessitating the revisitation of “Meld” tech. It could easily explain how a virus could so quickly and easily wipe their files and bring the flying fortress down.
In summary; if it ain’t broke. Don’t fix it.
I like the biomechanic angle! It would be nice to start at the top of the tech tree, but I agree it would be hard to explain. Honestly something I hadn't thought of 😆
I like Julian Gollop's Phoenix Point, with all its warts and pimples far more than XCOM2/WOTC, or what I have seen about Chimera Squad or Midnight Suns.
I actually like Phoenix Point a lot - the recent Terror From The Void rework mod smooths out a lot of the issues the DLC and base game had
i want xcom 3 this way:
- 2024 graphics and ragdoll physics
- give me the feel of xcom enemy unknown
- gameplay of xcom 2 WOTC
Strangely enough I can see exactly what you are saying. That'd be a great combination
Worst thing in Xcom2 is that we fight mostly dudes not aliens. Xcom3 could improve that, introducing again unkown alien threat (that wiped out Etherials' worlds).
You're right, I think that would be a nice change!
Didn't they say that they actually already worked on xcom 3 before deciding to do midnightsun?
There were some leaks and vague statements made that hinted around at it, but as far as I know there has never been any official word that development started on it
Just want to throw in my thoughts and analysis of the idea around XCOM 3 and the split between the XCOM-likes.
The X-COM (like) community is splitting into 4 categories from what i see. (Not nessescarily accurate, but it's easier, and it covers all the gameplay points)
XCOM 2 (+mods)
Phoenix point
Xenonauts
Realism (no such game. However, i do have ideas on it taking notes from a time-based strategy game, Door Kickers 2)
I noticed some trends in this:
The more realistic a game is, the fewer RPG elements it has,
Xcom 2 has skills and such, but xenonauts 2 only has increases in stats because most of the 'skills' are item dependant.
Geoscape
(Xenonauts 2 doesn't abide by this)
The more realistic an XCOM game is, the more fleshed out and dynamic the geoscape, such as factions fighting each other.
Another is logistics and supply,
The more realistic, the more task demanding logistics and supply is
That's about it from me, i could go into more details, but that would be nessescary.
As a guy who loves realism and tactical features that also work woth real life tactics, i could rave more on what I'd like to see, but i think that would be unnecessary to put it in this comment.
But i dont know. im inviting anyone who reads this to discuss their ideas on the 'divide'.
Anyways, great analysis video, i might check out more videos.
I agree that there is a bit of a clear divide - modern XCOM is kind of looked at as more of the "arcadey" style, but the wide range of mods available helps it to appeal and be shaped into almost whatever people want it to be.
I see a lot of people that also want the Xenonauts style of game - more grounded and closer to a faithful version of the original XCom style. A large chunk of those fans are not fans of the modern XCOM.
Phoenix point has a surprisingly solid mod community and players, and I wish it got more love than it does. Rough launch and some dodgy DLC hurt it a lot, but it has recovered pretty well. I think it is a solid middle ground between modern XCOM and some of the deeper complexities that people want.
Personally I would love to see a game really nail all of these things together, but that is a big ask. One with a TON of potential is Mars Tactics, which combines quite a few of the elements being discussed. You should look into it if you haven't!
@GridCommand
I've never heard of msrs tactics, was a bit sceptical , searched it up, and damn I would like that game.
It semi-nails the realism of combat , which I like (not that I dislike xcon 2's rpg style. Ironically, it's the most played xcom game I have) but I do like it from what I see, I just hope there's at least going to be dynamic spawns (2+ different areas you can deploy your troops on) which I like because it helps me use more realistic tactics I.e (battle position L, 1 side flanks, the other is infront)
Phoenix point, I got it on its release, so I have the epic games version. Although I know there's mods that improve it, I'm too lazy to download from Google for the mods.
Plus, I just don't like the style of its human soldiers and weaponry. They seem a lot more toyish compared to XCOM, which hurts it's replaying ability for me because I like realism.
(Which then led me to door kickers 2, which, as I made obvious I love due to realism)
On xenonauts, I have seen tons of videos but never tried it.
I never liked the original's graphics, xenonauts 2 seem like an absolute upgrade, but I'm split on buying it to try it early, considering how some research work doesn't even have written descriptions yet.
On the idea about the perfect mix of X-COM games, I think it's possible, but it has to be extraordinarily fine-tuned. There's a lot to achieve and much more to balance.
In my eyes, it seems almost impossible.
Also, as to point out, you really run the risk of making the game too - complex , Phoenix point is complex in simple ways. Xenonauts, from what I see, is quite similar but less glamorous.
The 'Perfect X-COM' game may end up adding so much that it becomes too expansive due to the volume of substance that is involved in making it 'perfect'.
So honestly, I think it's probabalistically impossible to make. It might be possible, x-com 2 modders have shown themselves as extraordinary in their work, maybe the same level of quality and work is achievable however I doubt it.
I would hope to be proven wrong.
In my eyes, the perfect X-Com game would be the fourth unmade category of realism. Many X-COM fans hopped over to Door Kickers 2 due to this.
For me, what hurts every X-COM/X-COM-like game is the lack of individual realism.
I will give a handful of examples:
- suppressors don't make guns silent, suppressors, + subsonic ammunition do.
- Night vision ( and the lack of it) , how it restricts vision. Door Kickers 2 nails this, monocular give only 40° field of view, binoculars give 80° , 'quad-nods' give 120°, normal is about 140°.
- using explosive charges, breaching shotguns.
-optics and how they affect accuracy.
A single Zoom 4x scope will have most of its benefits at 50m-80m.
But an optic with a Zoom lens of 1-4x will have a greater effectiveness at ranges sub 50m.
You get the gist.
I could say more such as a lack of dynamic weather/storms and recruit backgrounds affecting gameplay, but they have never really been implemented in any strategy games, so I'm just complaining about a lack of something that hasn't been
tried yet.
The Steam workshop version of Phoenix Point has some solid mods but nothing that really changes it more towards the realism aspect - the soldiers and weapons customization and look is still the same - and I agree that the look of their human soldiers is just a little bit off the mark. The customization is also pretty shallow. As for Xenonauts 2, I've thought about trying it but from what I've seen and looked into the early access build is still very limited and it's not making progress quickly, which makes me not want to jump in just yet.
I've never actually played Door Kickers, looking it up it might be something I take a crack at! I like the setting and look of it. I'd never heard of it before this.
The problem you cited with the perfect XCom game is what I think will cause us to never get it - the deep complexity can be a niche preference on its own, and the time to create it and develop it correctly is massive. On top of a fleshed out combat layer and everything else that comes with it. The Mars Tactics dev actually stated that is his biggest challenge and why the game is still unreleased - he is digging into the depths of the strategic layer.
@GridCommand
Considering the number of realism fans that play xcom and xcom-like, you would think phoenix Point would have a reskin mod already.
I'd agree with your hesitation on xenonauts 2 , but then again, the retcon raider's xenonauts series (19 episode in) is already outdated because it's on a previous version.
Plus, it would make me semi hypocritical as door kickers 2 also, is in early access, but then there's a large update just around the corner.
About Door Kickers 2 If you ever get into it, feel free to ask me about its complexities and tips for it
You are also recommended to check out the channel 'guns and strategies llc' as he makes youtube shorts about urban warfare with door kickers 2.
You should check granja the door kicker's video 'Quick CQB °29' as it's a collection of replays of 4 official dev maps.
There are more channels if you're interested.
But you do make a fair point. The complexity is a cornerstone of the game series I'd argue.
What I worry about is if the complexities of all levels (tactical , management , geoscape) will merge together smoothly.
The Mars Tactical dev makes a good point. The polishing and precision to make a XCOM-Like game is extraordinary; especially with a community of fans who are very 'pernickety' about how they would like it.
If the Mars tactical dev is having problems for a game, that will be simpler than anyone's idea of a 'perfect' X-COM, that says quite a lot.
But then again, you could be right. No one can know if it works without trying and to fear it's failure maybe what kills it, instead of the attempt.
xcom 2 was a masterpiece in a lot of ways. It's hard to believe people making xcom 3 could realistically make something even close to the same level. It's hard to say whether making something worth playing instead of replaying xcom 2 is realistic itself. Especially with mods like long war, xcom 2 is one of the ultimate strategy games of its genre, and any game similar to it has too high a floor to breach. I mean, hell, we got Phoenix Point and no one talks about that despite it largely being an xcom game. No one talks about the goofy squad cop game xcom released. We gotta accept there are peaks to art that come around rarely and appreciate it without chasing the dragon
Absolutely. It's a huge mountain to climb even for the original developers considering they not only have to beat XCOM 2 but also the modded versions. Theres a crazy amount of content available
Midnight Sun is actually free on Epic somehow, or it was!
It is! Actually a game I enjoyed way more than I expected.
@@GridCommander the card bit was great, the story bit is surprisingly good fun due to well done characters, but there's too much of it!
😆 agreed, I didn't take my time with it and the amount of story and stuff kinda burned me out on it by the time I got to the end
Midnight Suns looked like the relationship stuff was excessive but Denuvo killed any chance of me buying it
Understandable denuvo is 👎
I want Xcom 3 because no one else get it how to make a great tactical game. I tried so many tactical games, but none of them has that feel to it.
It is unfortunate that so many try and yet we don't have one that delivers quite in the same way as XCom
wish they polish xcom 2 vanilla to be as smooth as wotc.
Xoom doesn’t need hit chances, harder to hit targets should just take less damage instead of the soldier missing an enemy right in front of you.
That is probably one of the biggest glaring flaws in the system. Other games like Phoenix Point have the free aim system which I think is a pretty good change
They teased Terror From the Deep HARD in XCOM 2.
Yes they did and I would love to see it
@@GridCommander Solomon said Xcom 3 was not planned as TFTD remake and X2 ending was just a kind of trolling.
Honestly I'm not sure I want an XCOM 3 simply because we'll never get a Long War mod for it with Pavonis busy on Terra Invicta for the forseeable future, and probably not interested in going back to Long War even when they're done with TI. I haven't played vanilla EW or XCOM 2 in years, Long War is just so much better. The community have done a good job carrying the torch with Long War of the Chosen but I just don't see the same thing happening for a Long War 3.
True. Another core team that has moved on 😔
We absolutelly need it, just add the entrance mecanic of chymera squad in the orignal gameplay of xcom and ofc the lore so we have aliens soldiers, and let us attack the aliens homelands and discover what is hidding under the water...
We need the final episode of the reboot before they make some stupid games like we have nowadays ! Please !
Sounds great to me!
I heard Chimera Squad is a short game, I can't confirm I only played it for 2 hours.
Yeah it's only about a 20 hour game altogether. I got it for $10 at launch and still have never finished it
@@GridCommander I got it for less then 1 euro on steam, it was cheaper then a game from 2000 lol
They shouldn't reboot it, they should make an actual sequel to the original XCOM where the aliens are invading again and they continue the story, instead of giving a middle finger to the players and running with their stupid "the world was taken over because everybody's first run was a failure" BS.
Nobody wanted an x-com game where you've already lost.
I'd be down for that - I mean the continuity of the canon lore is already pretty wild anyways 😆
Yes, I do.
Oh, there's a video about it.
😆 indeed there is
i didnt mind midnight suns, there were problems with it tho. alot of qulity of life issues, some cringy dialogue, lack of marketing for the game, i never heard of it until recently but i like it for what it was
I actually liked it a lot for what it was - the dialogue sections and some of the story was a little long winded, and the Abbey stuff felt like a game from 15 years ago, but overall I can say I enjoyed it.
@@GridCommander i should added this, its mostly nitpicking at the game but game still pretty good, its alot more polished then chimera squad i heard, that game has alot of bugs most ppl that saw it problably hated it just because it wasnt xcom, since those both games do not have perm death mechanics
It is definitely better than Chimera Squad, much deeper and better story and combat in my opinion. I agree a lot of people probably saw it was not quite same as XCOM and instantly didn't like it.
I absolutely want an XCOM2+.
But I don't think Firaxis can pull it off in a good way anymore.
Unfortunately I feel the same way
I would be willing to accept that it's over...EXCEPT, they deliberately put that teaser cutscene of something being in the ocean.
Exactly! Need closure 😆
I want xcom3
Midnight suns combat was great, it was the story and relationship side of the game that brought it down
Whoever made to call to have Lilith as the main villain when much better villains exist also bears responsibility, and dating without romance also made the relationship side bad
I really enjoyed the combat! but I did always wonder why Lilith was the choice for the big bad.
Also agree with the relationship take, the dialogue and systems felt romance-y but not quite all the way and it leaves it in this awkward spot.
If you want another X-Com, I sincerely recommend Phoenix Point. After the last couple of patches, it's actually pretty great now! 👍 Midnight Suns could have been awesome if only they had the balls to pull the trigger on the more adult aspects of that side of Marvel, i.e. grown-up relationships, blood here and there, death, and alcohol. As it is, it's almost comical how toothless and tame it is in that regard. Especially with characters like Deadpool, Blade and Morbius. Spider-Man finds the *OBVIOUS* corpse of a Hydra soldier on a stretcher in Morbius' lair, and Morbius HAS to say out loud "He'll be fine later." Blade unloads his machine guns on a guy? He's just knocked out, of course! Romance a character? Nah, but can be "very good, close friends." Maybe even hold hands! 🤣
Lol Deadpool was a bit of a disappointment for me as far as how they used his character. I expected it to take the "safe" Marvel route to an extent but looking back on it really does bring up a lot of the points you make 😆
Phoenix Point is awesome by the way! Terror From The Void only makes it better
@GridCommand Yeah, I totally agree about Deadpool! Come on, he's got an ability called "Boom! Headshot!" I mean... It's still a sweet game, and I enjoy it a lot (playing it right now, actually) and that's my only real point of criticism: They want to make a game within the darker, gothic horror side of Marvel with witches, satanic cults and vampires, but you know... For the whole family! 🤣🤣🤣 And yeah, Pheonix Point too, man. That game is super underappreciated! It got a bad rep at the start (Epic exclusive, buggy AF launch), but the devs really put a ton of love and care into it, I think. Would go so far as to say it is now the X-Com 3 we never had, since War of the Chosen left on "Terror From the Deep" kind of cliffhanger! 😁
That's the way I always saw Phoenix Point too, it almost feels like a continuation with how closely it plays to X-Com. I'm glad the modding community is working their magic on it, the game seems to be having a little bit of a resurgence right now and I'm all for it
@@necasperaterent29386Midnight Suns is fun if you just focus on the battles and ignore the goofy extracurriculars.
It's very satisfying to build and mod your deck and watch the heros take on new meaning and become powerhouses. Also the oddball combos you can create. Blade and Wolverine? Who knew these two could become one turn map cleaners. Or a support Hunter and Captain Marvel. Absolutely brutal.
One thing I think midnight Suns did very well was the hero roles and how they could compliment each other. The versatility of Hunter made it even better
Welp, you were right about Civ 7.
😔
I guess the best we'd get as Xcom 3 would be Troubleshooter imitation. A lot of set unique characters that each have their story and relationships. Not that I'm against it, but it's just not XCOM after all.
yes we want xcom 3
Sorry, not sorry, but any ascended XCOM fan treats their game and crew as a life/dating sim in as much as a turn based strat wargame, that's just the natural progression of what happens. Jake is simply doing for real as an actual product what we've been doing to our games for years, treating it as. Mod dude wouldn't spend years and years developing X-Piratez if he just wanted a pure wargame about fighting ayyys. I wouldn't be pushing 1000 mods in XC2 if I wasn't making it a life sim of earth under alien occupation.
Also, what would they even do with XCOM 3 anyways? 2's ending implied at best a sort of retelling of Terror From The Deep. There's nothing or nowhere to really take the story, they could have had something like Apocalypse maybe, in that reuniting Earth is a far harder goal than they thought, but Chimera Squad already did the Earth is healing thing, so there's really nowhere else to take the story imo.
Also friendship and relations aren't new or "Jake's big thing", relations were a thing early as Apocalypse
The story is probably the biggest hurdle, as there really is no clear path to take. I'd be okay with going the Terror From The Deep route
I definitely would have preferred _something_ with the Terror from the Deep retelling storyline, but I digress.
Personally I’m all in on mars tactics
It looks really good, hopefully we get a firm release date soon
Xcom 2 and Civ 6 are the only games that I play from their eras. Just finished a yet another Xcom 2 Legendary run last week. It still has a lot of legs. I tried Chimera and just didn’t like the mechanics/gameplay.
Chimera strayed a little too far from the XCom basics IMO - I didn't mind the breaching part so much though, i could see that being a usable mechanic in certain situations for a future game.
I'd rather a cliffhanger then live service
Absolutely!
As much as I want an XCOM 3, the IP holder 2K isn't the best at handling their monetization fetish.
For a biased take, Midnight Suns card system is actually a dealbreaker for me and a bunch of my friends. We all love tactical strategies and RPGS, and a lot of us didn't mind relationship systems since a lot of Japanese TRPGS like Fire Emblem does this a lot at great success. A lot of us didn't even gave the game a chance simply because of the card system.
What really killed Midnight Suns, however, is likely the Marvel IP. A regular success isn't going cut the profits for the big Mouse.
2Ks monetization fetish is probably one of the biggest factors keeping it from being made honestly. I can understand not liking the card system, most games with it I don't enjoy. I was surprised how much I actually liked Midnight Suns.
Definitely not without its issues though - monetization, Denuvo, IP, etc.
More than xcom 3, I'd like to get xcom anthology (incl all xcom games ever) released on PS5. I would never understand why Chimera never been released to PS system.
That's a good idea! I'm sure it would sell too. I think chimera was looked at as a bit of a failure and kind of throwaway project - they haven't really supported it much at all since launch
@@GridCommander idea of Chimera was, hmmm, peculiar. Appealed to be a fanfic rather than a rightful instalment, yet I do not get it why they didn't do a port, cause they do have experience and tools to do it.
Fanfic is a good way to put it. You never know, maybe leading up to X-Com 3 we will get the XCom anthology 😁
Eventually someone will put together a game basically just like x com because they are inspired by x com and wish it was still around and not abandoned like how that indi dev made war grove because Nintendo won’t make an advanced wars game like the old days
Surprised it hasn't happened already tbh
Personally, I don't think I'd like an xcom3. For me, the best part about xcom1 was just how simplified it was overall. You had a few dudes, a few grenades and you basically just fought a few enemies at a time that the game put in front of you. xcom2 went for more complexity and introduced more timers and different ways to approach the non-combat stuff, and war of the chosen went all-in on specific individuals trying to tell a more conventional story.
I'm afraid that if they went to make xcom3, they would basically just take xcom2 and add a bunch of stuff to it. I would be much more interested in a game if they just took the basic combat framework of xcom1 and adapted it to some other model they wanted. xcom2 is great, but I honestly don't think I would have gotten into it if I didn't sink a bunch of time into xcom1 first. The simplicity is what really makes me like these games, not the complexity.
There is a very fine line between simplicity and complexity, and overly complex games can really spiral into bogged down or redundant mechanics pretty quickly. I can agree, I prefer simplicity and approachability but with a touch of some deeper mechanics as well.
A very difficult balance to achieve if they were to try for a third game.
We will and we do.
Nuclear take but I think Long War 1 was peak nu-xcom. Very fun and a lot of depth to tactical battles, with the strategy layer preserved, but not so much strategic micromanagement required. A perfect blend of arcadey EW and OG xcom. But XCOM2 and WOTC moved even further away from that and I'd be worried XCOM3 would be too arcadey and lack the depth needed for a proper XCOM game
I could see that happening for sure. I've actually never played Long War 1, I might have to give it a shot
I thought Chimera Squad was XCom3
It was more of a spinoff side project. although it is officially a continuation of the XCom universe
Yah no more Chimera Squad that wasnt my cup of tea.
Read it was a game I purchased purley based on the ip, but later regretted it.
Not bad perhaps, but not my thing atleast.
there is other games in the genre that is promesing or good.
But Xcom was literally the first game I purchased with my own money for my pc back when the ip was held by the French brothers.
So I've been invested in the ip for some time.
I still fire up Xcom 2 and play that frequently, just a mission here and there for some quick and fun times.
One of the few games I never uninstall..
Its frustrating when sequels take forever. The original staff move on and often the magic is lost. Its been so long since XCOM 2 now that i fear its just not gonna stick very well.
unfortunately i think you're right
Do we rally want it?
-Yes!
Will we ever get Xcom-3
-Probably no
Civ 7 is announced and in full hype mode, maybe X-Com is the next project in the pipeline 😉
What about Phoenix point?
Ive came back to it recently with the Terror From The Void mod - i enjoy it a lot! It definitely feels like the closest X-Com 2 spiritual successor
Would rather it have endless mode
Endless mode would be great! Surprised there is not a mod for that
The main issue.... Is X com never had character development.
Relationship between characters and anything else was not in the game, or at least, we see so little about it. It offers lore and some mystery but the only memorable npcs were The Chosen ones, and they are dead xp.
True, it would have been nice if they could've found a little bit more of a middle ground. Not as heavy as midnight Suns but not quite as bare as it was
@@GridCommander and I just remembered Julian, the a.i and boss from shen last wish, who has some development. But that's it.
Lol that's a crazy pull I forgot all about Julian
I mean, Fire Emblem has entire casts of fully fleshed out characters that can suffer perma-death.
True, fire emblem is the example i see used the most when comparing to that.
Just play the TFTV PP mod if you want more
Absolutely agree!
The only reason for a game to get a sequel is to improve the previous game. Xcom 2, while no where near perfect, is probably the best it’s ever going to get. And thats mostly because of the modding community. I don’t think it is worth getting a worse game just to have the story continued.
That's kind of where I'm at with it too. It would have to be a monumental achievement to put out a game that is better and can do more than the current mods of XCOM 2
We got it with Phoenix Point.
True! Phoenix Point deserves more love
0:40 oh you mean like fire emblem?
I wouldn't mind more games like Fire Emblem either
i dont wish for an xcom 3, i wish xcom 2 simply wrapped up the story.
if you cant 100 percent commit to finishing a story, dont end it on a cliffhanger for fucks sakes.
Sounds like he wants to mix xcom with fire emblem
I think it could work
So Sad jake left firaxis i fear if they ever release xcom3 it will be some cartoony type game, or worse something like Chimera Squad, and as for midnight sun totaly hate it
Fortnite graphic X-Com 😬
@@GridCommander I shudder to think if that would be the case,In truth I do not see another game as good as xcom2,To me the premis is simple you start with getting your ass kicked and battle on till you start to dish it out, all encased in Jake Solomans graphics. That is all we would want. Yes new Aliens and new maps, perhaps take Xcom off world?
Just more or less more of the same......Too much to ask? Probably.
More of the same with a good, deep new setting and some modernized quality of life would be fine with me
if they wanted learn how to do perma-death in a tactical game with strong characters they literally just had to look at the kaga-era fire emblem games. not the gameboy or modern era ones, which just ignore perma death for the story.
sadly, imo, xcom is one of those games that is greatly harmed by that stupid Nemesis patent that WB has that prevents immersive storytelling in games😅
Ahhh SO many good things could come from the Nemesis system. That patent sucks