Ironically thats probably the best way to make sure none of it is taken to heart. Lol She will let a guy with face tattoos knock her up just to spite you.
Ignore other replies, I am assuming those commenters spend too much time online and it influences their perception of women. Corn use or constant exposure to social media rage bait makes a guy hear “daughter” and make the other comments here. Parentchads stay winning.
@@AlexaDespacito-m7e Nailed it, I have no idea what teenagers are like. I was never a teenager. I have my opinion because I watch corn. Lol this is why its very hard to take feminists seriously.
Only 12 minutes in, and y’all’s point about people who only read ACOTAR type books not being able to conceptualize other types of writing is so real. I lent a book to a friend, and half way through it she still seemed confused about the fact that it was a mystery novel. It was like she wasn’t sure how to read it because it wasn’t what she was used to. Absolutely no shade to her or anyone else, but it constantly floors me how people who claim to love reading and books only stick to one very specific type of story. It’d be like saying I’m a foodie, but I only eat french fries; occasionally switching the sauce I eat them with. Again no shade, but please don’t limit your experience to one type of thing. Branch out occasionally. Eat those fries, but maybe try something new once in a blue moon.
Stab me through the chest why don't you😂I will say, I pretty much only read fantasy because I have a deep love for the genre and I want to consume as much of it as possible in the limited time I get. Whilst fantasy is a pretty broad genre, it means that I don't get to read as much mystery or Sci-Fi as maybe I should, even though I have enjoyed those genres in the past and I know I'd enjoy them again
I had a somewhat similar experience but with movies. My best friend and bf a very smart but when my bestie streamed a movie she loved i was absolutely floored at how both of them missed so many plot points and got confused on some of the plot points. It was a Japanese/Korean movie called The Handmaiden
Well, he became popular in his first appearance where he started out bad because people were misleading him. Then he switched sides and has been 100% heroic for most of the time. It's really just his spin off game that is awful and gave him the Edgy the Hedgy personality. Then a few animated shows decided to take that as inspiration because it's funny. Fans of the original Shadow are not happy about that. (I remember being 14 and yelling about that a lot haha)
I'm glad you brought up that whole serial killer insanity and even more so that the fact he's nothing to look at is properly acknowledged. I feel like it makes sense to view that case in connection to the recent discussion on the decline of literacy. If we're unlearning to cricitaclly analyze texts, it's no wonder some readers of those stories cannot, in fact, tell fantasy from reality or even comprehend what they're reading. In Shadow and Bone fandom (haven't read the books, watched the show) a lot of people keep defending Alina&the Darkling ship even though that guy murdered hundreds of innocent people, violated her body autonomy and basically viewed her as an object. Add that to increased production of books -> inevitable decrease of general quality -> some bad writing is bound to become viral, reach a big audience and, well, cause harm and create demand for more bad writing. Not all YA perpetuates the shadow daddy trope, but those books that do get a lot of attention. 19:10 - I knew a part of it was the accent! (it's still only a part of it though lol)
Here’s what people get wrong about submission: 1. Submission is neither good nor bad. It simply is. 2. Submission has multiple definitions. Taken from Merriam Webster dictionary transitive verb 1 a: to yield to governance or authority b: to subject to a condition, treatment, or operation “the metal was submitted to analysis” 2: to present or propose to another for review, consideration, or decision also : to deliver formally submitted my resignation 3: to put forward as an opinion or contention “we submit that the charge is not proved” intransitive verb 1 a: to yield oneself to the authority or will of another : SURRENDER b: to permit oneself to be subjected to something “had to submit to surgery” 2: to defer to or consent to abide by the opinion or authority of another The problem with modern society is that we think submission is exclusive to dominance hierarchies and enslavement. This is simply not true. Submission in its base form simply means to follow someone else’s lead, be it permanent or temporary. Some forms of submission are bad such as slavery. And other forms of submission are good such as obeying traffic laws. There are forms of submission that have nothing to do with hierarchy. Such as submitting documentation to an organization. The red pillers are wrong about submission. But so are the feminists. The red piller presuppose that submission is intrinsically good, while the feminists presuppose that submission is intrinsically bad. Both are wrong. Submission is intrinsically NEUTRAL and POTENTIALLY good or bad.
Good point. Speaking as a Christian, a wife submitting to her husband (as Christ submitted to the Father) comes up ofter when talking about marriage. This isn’t meant to be the slavery version but deferring to another version. When done wrong it can become the slavery version. It’s helpful to have the neutral understanding of the word in mind for this reason.
As a Catholic, woman is supposed to submit to man, and man is supposed to submit to God. I’ve been married for nearly 10 years, whenever I feel frustrated with my wife, I usually reflect on my actions, recenter myself and make sure I’m submitting to God and conducting myself as a Good Catholic Man for my wife and our children.
@@manifest2203 I understand, what if said man is a sinner, as many are and they don’t even seek forgiveness, or seek to understand the hurt they cause. It is hard in this modern world to let your guard down. For both men and women.
The other thing about people with unresolved trauma - a lot of them are compelled to read disturbing things as a form of self-harm, which they justify to themselves in various ways so they don’t have to be consciously aware of what they’re doing.
Thank you for noticing. They do mental self harm for many reasons. One of them is to feel their feel again and again. Because the first time their trauma happened, they suppressed their feels.
I’ve been waiting for this one, it’s felt like it was coming down the pipeline. My wife got sucked into this whole fad a couple years ago and it’s been a constant point of tension since, so I’ll be watching this one on my own xD
@ I don’t think the MCU is involved in the widespread desemination of really toxic ideas. The dark romance stuff romanticizes really horrible people who do really horrible things
@ Yeah, that just comes down to your worldview then I guess. I’m personally not sure people need to be enjoying stories “knowing what they are” about the violent abuse of women. Kind of like they said in the video, if you substitute children, would that still be okay? It’s tricky because I also don’t want to sanitized all media, I think you can depict s*xual abuse and even s*xual abuse of minors (although how could you even do that practically, and why the hell would you want to), without it becoming a moral hazard. But the way abuse is depicted in these types of stories is a “oh god, beat me harder daddy” sort of way where the evil manipulative psychopath is the hot romantic “good guy.” I don’t know, it’s all so complicated to try and pin down morally, but I also know for a fact that Sarah J Maas knowingly allowed books with explicit sexual content to be marketed to underage people, so I don’t need much more than that to take moral issue with her and her books.
I actually quite enjoyed this format, as well as the content of the conversation. Would not be mad at all if there were more in the future, especially if it eases the workload in between the traditional format videos!
Merry Christmas, thank you for this early Christmas present. The Bad Boy Trope is so problematic, especially the Good Girl who thinks that she can change him.
Can you two please make more content together! This conversation was amazing and such a unique exploration of a topic that I think needs a lot of thought and analysis!
Society encourages men to adapt and become cynical/the bad boy type. Kindness gets, far too often, taken advantage of. And it's sad that the same tropes in media keep continuing. Instead of something like Twilight being a lesson for future generations, we'll have a new version of Twilight (if there's not one out there already), and one after that, and so on. Speaking as a guy who's single, struggling with that inner cynicism is a drag. I wouldn't recommend it.
always good to see somebody else passionate about Robert E Howard’s writing, theirs plenty of other examples of strong women in Howard’s work, including some of them being the main characters, and while they might not be the main focus of the story their written with far more intelligence and agency than a lot of writing today
Really really dark dark romance is a lot more common in fanfics then in traditional publishing, so much so that there's a whole genre that I think of as martyrfic, and that's every tenth bad boy/good girl fic. It's always oppressively dark in tone (Manacled I would consider a milder example of it) where I think the point is that the self-insert character takes on all the sin and shame of the love interest, there's never a happy end, her reputation is ruined and everyone hates her and these fics are most often unfinished I personally don't like them, but unlike dating-a-billionere/cinderella fics, I really don't get why they exist, but some people definitely do, they're often popularish. I assume they're written by teenagers who are working though some new emotions but what baffles me is that there's never a triumph at the end, it's usually just bleak from the onset and throughout. The only emotion I can grasp is this sort of protion through taking on the social stigma of the villain
I think the trope is overused, and sincerely directed exclusively at women because men really don't like it. But in fiction anything goes. The real problem is when audiences fail to separate fiction from reality. And that's a problem coming from within the audience, and not the work of fiction or the author. In general men tend to prefer the tough but valiant hero, like Geralt of Rivia, or the young man learning to move around the world, when it comes to romance, because male readers recoil at the bad boy with disgust by default. Compare romance subplots in male oriented works to romance subplots in women oriented works. It's way too different.
I don't know that I would say it's aimed exclusively at women, since the female equivalent of the bad boy would be the femme fatale, which is an extremely popular trope.
It's interesting how the same people who say "I told you so, you should have listened to me" would probably also say that we need to teach women to think for themselves. But which is it? Do you want them to think for themselves, or do you want to shame and condemn them for not just listening to you and rejecting their own opinions and thoughts about a situation because YOU told them to do something different? You're absolutely right, Galatea, people need to learn things for themselves sometimes. Especially young people, when they are practicing how to think for themselves and they haven't yet perfectly mastered when they should think for themselves and when they should go with what their parents or older friends/family are telling them because they know better. It's hard to know the right balance of that. Because older people aren't all-knowing and are not always correct, so it's not wise to just assume that you must always go with whatever they say.
Love to see these collabs with smaller creators. You help me find channels like Song and Liz not Lizzie. Very much appreciated. Happy New Year Galatea P.S. I love Song's honesty about enjoying spicy books for their silliness. A lot of women like to pretend they are above it all when they critique it. Nuance, it exists.
I like purple prose, unironically, when it's well written. But I hate blank slate. Blank slates are inherently unpalatable, since nobody is a blank slate in real life.
Can you please give me any recommendation?😍😍😍I read everything, i don't care about genres (romance, sci-fi, fantasy, historical, whaterever it's okay) I love purple prose 💜💜but nowadays everything is direct and straighfoward.
I hope "romantasy" actually does get differentiated from fantasy for once. So sick of wanting to read about magic and adventures and getting a soap opera. (And then getting scolded for suggesting anything about that might be bad writing).
Thank you! That was an amazing video. However, I think it’s quite unfair to tell writers that "inserting themselves" into their books is something that is only for teenagers. I mean, if you look at any classic work of literature, you would see the same thing. For example, Myshkin from Dostoevsky’s The Idiot and Dostoevsky himself share a looot of traits in common. And you can’t tell me that Levin from Tolstoy’s Anna Karenina is not an idealized version of Tolstoy (or Dante in The Divine Comedy - I mean, this is literally self-insert fanfiction). Furthermore, the whole idea of a raisonneur in plays. So all this is not a new concept created by teenagers on AO3. I do not mean to say that S.J. Maas and Dante are the same, but self-insertion is kind of a really old trope, and I think it’s not fair to criticize someone for using it. I do agree with you on most but think this was not fair
@@helenzaikina478 I think a bad self-insert is pretty obvious. A self-insert as a power fantasy for the writer is usually pretty pathetic. I doubt The Divine Comedy would be a timeless classic if Dante single-handedly defeated all of the forces of Hell and everyone in Heaven constantly gushed about how cool Dante was.
Thank you so much for having me on, Galatea! It was so much fun to get to talk to you. ❤ I totally forgot that I managed to slip in a Sunstone recommendation in there. 😅
@songweretson thank you for bringing up how tame , almost ‘wholesome’, the pulps and Robert E Howard are in comparison to these YA Romantasies. There was a rude chivalry to REH’s Conan, something lacking in modern fiction it seems.
@dreiraven3rvn457 it's that quote from Tower of the Elephant about how civilized men are more comfortable behaving badly because they know they're not going to get their skull crushed if they step out of line.
@@dreiraven3rvn457It's that quote from Tower of the Elephant about how "civilized" men can get away with bad behavior because there won't be the same consequences. (Apparently my original response to this got eaten by UA-cam, so this time I'm trying to be more delicate. XD)
Sunstone, as in the graphic novel about Bee Dee Es Em? Not judging (I really enjoyed it, although I do think it's still too much from a romanticised, male perspective), just wondered if you were referring to another Sunstone.
Besides a few caveats this was a good convo. A few things tho: The reason why the sub is in control, is because it would be abuse if it wasnt. Within fiction or fantasy, the reader/writer is in control by creating/reading the scenario. Thats why its not necessary for the sub in the story to "be in control". If the vast majority of women are "immature" u cant fault redpills for adapting their behavior to suit their immature desires. I know none of this stuff actually works longterm, but with a person who lacks maturity and seeks out unstable traits, nothing works longterm, because longterm requires mutual labour. I do not understand the genetic arguement about attraction to dominant authoritive guys. I feel like a guys willingness to defend you correlates much more, with how much they care about you, than how much of a douche they are. I would say that ppl would be less likely to commit proxy violence against you if hes dominant, but honestly, that might be a 50 50...
The whole “sub is actually in control” statement just never sits right with me. Just seems like such a nonsense phrase meant to discourage critical thinking. Why ab*se in a s*xual context a normalized component in romantic relationship? That seems like a question more people should be asking… but these “don’t kink shame” or “it’s just fantasy” statements stop that process.
The Young Adult genre has always had strong "Not Like Other Girls" themes, in which the main character must be differentiated from other pathetic portrayals of women, as if being anything other than a girl is what makes them "cool." You can really see the confusion getting worse and worse and see how our culture got to this point if you pay attention to what kind of media we were bombarded with.
"They equate trust with submission" Exactly! Thank you for entangeling this. They also equate respect with submission. It`s not. Respect is earned and freely given to somebody you respect as your equal, not taken by domination.
because they are linked. You are only looking at submission through subjugation but submission is not only about subjugation but also submission to rightful authority which requires trust and respect. If you did respect me and trust me than submitting to my leadership would not take domination.
And you’re looking at it through the historical assumption that men do have rightful authority. … Though whether ‘rightful’ is the appropriate term was always dubious. If you draw your reasoning from the Bible, then male authority was part of the Curse. Along with death. And if we should deliberately maintain it, we should also outlaw the use of combine harvesters.
@@robertblume2951 No, if I respect you and trust you I would see you as my equal partner, not submit to you. Why would anyone submit to their partner? There is no need or request for that. The moment there is a request for that your partner isn`t trustworthy any more. There is no such thing as a "rightful authority" over your partner. Putting yourself as an autority over your partner can never be a "rightful" thing to do. I trust my partner to make snap dicisions for both of us if I cannot be present for something. He also trusts me to make decisions for both of us in a situation where I have no opportunity to consult with him. But there is no "submitting to the authority" of the other in that.
@@arsangelica6858 that makes no sense. combine harvesters only make less work. They don't invalidate the curse of work. Have you seen office space? Is Jim less cursed than his construction worker neighbor because he works behind a desk in air conditioning? As to rightful. It has nothing to do with historical assumptions or the bible. Wouldn't a democary be a rightful authority to submit to?
@@robertblume2951 No, if I respect you and trust you I would see you as my equal partner, not submit to you. Why would anyone submit to their partner? There is no need or request for that. The moment there is a request for that your partner isn`t trustworthy any more. There is no such thing as a "rightful authority" over your partner. Putting yourself as an autority over your partner can never be a "rightful" thing. I trust my partner to make snap dicisions for both of us if I cannot be present for something. He also trusts me to make decisions for both of us in a situation where I have no opportunity to consult with him. But there is no "submitting to the authority" of the other in that.
Finally. The kind of book content I’ve been looking for. Someone willing to look at both sides of the argument and point out genuine inconsistencies with trashy “literature”
The wanting women to submit and be obedient thing is weird. It's treated as a moral failing if they want to do anything outside of caring for the children and trying to please their husband. Like they're not allowed to have any goals or aspiations or think freely. As for men, they want us be stoic at all times, and work, and pray, that's it. They want everyone to be robots.
Some men want their little power trip every day when they come home. Especially religious men, they like to feel like little gods in their own home. Blasphemous, you would think.
Galatea, when are you going to make a video about the muslims' actions on British women? I do not see any feminist against the EU/NGOs/Institutions when they are importing "bad apples". Everytime when (let's say) someone tries to do something he is labelled all the names like fascist, Putinist etc Merry Christmas!!
I think that goes beyond her forte. You need to have a strong grasp on culture, Islamic theology and societal background to explain the psychology of Muslims clearly. I recommend you to watch Apostle Prophet or one of those ex muslim commentators instead as they will have much more relevant and indepth knowledge.
@soupman9616 I know Apostle, you are right. The reason why I specifically asked for her is because women will more likely listen to another woman and the more women from social media talk about this, the faster we solve it.
There are tonnes of feminists talking out against this. You are just talking about woke libfems who call themselves ‘intersectional feminists’ which in their minds means they’re not allowed to criticise Islam or men of colour because it’s racist. Old school feminists, radical feminists (that doesn’t mean what you think it means btw) and moderate feminists like myself never stop talking about it. Modern liberal feminism isn’t in women’s interests, it panders to men with fetishes and Islamists. But that’s not all what feminism encompasses even today. The other part of this is that the feminists who are talking about this don’t run around screaming that they’re feminists, they just embody their beliefs through their words and actions. The women slapping ‘feminist’ stickers on everything are, inversely, performative and not good feminists.
Mr Darcy was written to be a “misunderstood bad boy” character and regardless he was so polite and gentle lol, but he still gave off that vibe and many women are still attracted to his character to this day.
Haunting Adeline is the worst and most toxic book I've ever frkn read, I read it a couple of years back, it's so disturbing how so many women fawn over the stalker, borderline grapist, Zade Meadows. I hate it so fkn much. I love reading romance (I like dark romance when written well). But it's so difficult to find actually decent ones where the guy isn't a complete piece of shite.
I don't understand the Zafe obsession! He's such a monster! One reviewer I follow has said that a lot of these books should be classified as e*otic horror, because the romances are not romances.
I never read Tanora Pierces' Lioness series. I think because by that time I was tired of the whole girl dresses as a boy trope, though I do get why it was popular at some point. I did really like her Emelan Universe. There are various women in dresses that are good and bad.
I thought I was the only one who noticed this trope being forced into every single book about a girl. I've literally thrown books against the wall because of it. JUST LET THEM BE A GIRL AND HAVE AN ADVENTURE! No wonder all my friends turned (youtube won't let me say it). HAVE YOU SEEN OUR MEDIA?!
Your guest has great taste, absolutely love the Conan books. She's right about the character too, people write him off as a one note barbarian, which is hilarious because most of the stories have some element of the people in-universe doing the same, to their detriment.
Honestly I'm at the point where it doesn't matter to me how bad a book is if it encourages young people to read. I have seen so many young people who proudly declare that they never read books at all, or only read the dialog parts or declare the book as boring if the first chapter isn't filled with action and stop reading. There are so many people who can't read one single page of text without declaring "too long, didn't read". The teens who were absolutely obsessed with twilight are adults now, and I highly doubt that Edward being a psycho stalker portrayed as a romantic boyfriend lead all or even many of these people into seeking that kind of nutjobs in real life. It was just simple escapism because being a teenager is a mess. But that nutjob vampire was fascinating enough that it caused people to read multiple books. Not very good books, but a bad book is better than a good day spent scrolling tiktok.
They're not reading because a lot of them (at least in the US) were legitimately taught English wrong. Something like 75% of schools in the US still use whole language learning to teach, which has been roundly discredited as a teaching method, in favor of phonics. What this means is that reading kinda becomes a chore given how much learning English that way slows comprehension down. It's not so much that they have things they like better, (though that's absolutely a part of it) it's that the act of reading isn't all that enjoyable for them.
The majority of books aren't beneficial or well written. The writing industry romanticized reading to make people think books are always wonderful and educational. This is only true a minority of the time. Kids don't read books because they're poorly edited trash. Adults think reading is good because they don't actually read or finish many books themselves. I say this as someone who's read thousands of books. The majority are not good.
@@lunalee3021 while I agree that the majority of books are not exceptionally well written (being benefical is subjective in my eyes. Some people say that if you enjoy it, it's benefical even if it's objectively cheap trash), everyone starts reading somewhere, and if reading poorly written but exciting trash as a teen keeps you reading and trying to find those better books later, I find it better than not developing the ability and patience to read long-form texts at all.
Good point, the thing thats compelling in bad boys is getting to the heart of gold part and the character developement and trauma maybe making them acting out and you know dangerous , damaged but caring and interesting, is it too hard to have the bad boy maybe on the main efforts and calling out getting like better,and show it? Bad boys are interesting if they arent just cheeap flat toxic abusive without good quaklities. A bad boys apeal is to fix him and have him change for you and that, not being abusive or a doormat main
So as a general observation and summation of the 'women like bad boys to submit to' debacle. In those books the women does end up with the most hold in the relationship. In short those books are fantasies, the beginning is the submitting/forced fantasies and then the mid-end is the power trip portion. The Red pill uses this as a co-sign that women want and are attracted to this. I disagree, most women do not want this. But you have to look deeper as to why theyre ATTRACTED to it, because they undeniably are. Women dont look @ those books and go "oh wow, i get to have control over him @ the end of book" they dont know that until they read it. They see ' hot guy, issues, dominant, hawt🥵' and thats what ATTRACTS theyre attention. They are attracted to the submission/bad boy stuff and then they are fulfilled by the power trip at the end. Its a "come for the coffee, stay for the company" type deal. So the Tate-O-Sphere isnt completely wrong
As another commenter pointed out, you also have to consider the declining media literacy, which causes people to be less able to differentiate fact from fiction. So some of them see the sorts of things that happen in these books and take it into the real world with them.
@@Batmans_Pet_Goldfish I agree but you have to be careful with that because that begs the question of are they taking out something that isn't real or are they taking out something real that was put in. Most things ppl put in books like this are from the reality or what's around them. So deciphering what's fact from fiction gets blurry. So your example might be, author making something up completely i.e 'fiction' of let's say women liking to be yanked hard everywhere and he puts it in the book. Then there's the authors experience saying that women like to be treated rough and this is 'non-fiction' and he puts it in the book. Both of these aren't the greatest messages but one holds more weight in reality than the other. So in this case no matter which one you pick 'fiction' or 'non' it's bad. Media literacy is good but even with it if the message is true but still bad it'll get to you.
The thing is though what people like in fiction is completely different than what they go for in real life. Most of these women are just dating normal, respectable men. The average woman who reads is lower middle class and isn’t dating criminal scumbags.
@ConnorAldorna I was speaking more along the lines of reading something that gives someone a thrill, but then internalizing that, regardless of whether or not it's a healthy thing. Basically, it's more about giving in to primal temptations, and not letting it stay fictional. They get emotionally invested to a point of tying their identity to a character and then taking that character's attitude and approach to things into the real world. They take the characters as role models, essentially. I suppose it's less about media literacy and more about maturity, but someone saying they recognize the difference between fiction and reality in the abstract when asked, won't mean they put it into practice. And from my experience, it's a lot more common than it should be, from both men and women.
My take (before listening) Because society gets more unstable and unstable, women crave for men that have "shadow daddy" characteristics. Capable, strong, independent, experienced, powerful. Basically someone that can keep them safe in dark times.
They are talking about fantasy books. In the real world most people are searching for equal partnerships. Don`t you leave the house and meet real people? People have very normal partnerships, there normally isn`t a power dynamic. Maybe sometimes in the bedroom if they are into that, but you won`t get to see that. soooo ... where do you get the idea that real life realtionships are about domination?
Shadow daddy sounds very jungian, like shadow is to self, what you can't really perceive about yourself, this would be a shadow to a father figure, everything you can't admit to yourself that lacked in that relationship, and now it's taking a human form, a shadow version of a father, aka shadow daddy
That's exactly why these women are attracted to these men. Attraction is largely subconscious and formed by the relationship with the opposite sex parent growing up. Many fathers are unintentionally abusive or emotionally neglectful and this reflects usually in the men the women date in an attempt to get them to become conscious of this wound. Women end up dating versions of their fathers.
1:13:40 what you just said about the manifestation of female fear strikes me as SO accurate, and it makes a LOT of sense why these types of stories are so prevalent in our modern society, when modern feminism is constantly driving further wedges between men and women and painting men as evil predators that are against women and want to harm us. Wow. That really makes a lot of sense, and I can totally see why our modern culture has created this kind of trend in women's fiction. Great analysis.
To add to my original comment: this theory also makes sense of why these kinds of stories have no appeal to me at all, because I'm not someone who believes men are all pigs... It's like these women think men are all pigs, so their best-case-scenario is that they can find a pig they're able to tame. But I look at that and just think "why are you choosing a pig at all when there are tons of other options that aren't even pigs to begin with?"
Tbf, as an avid reader, having a buttload of books more than you can read is half the fun 😂 I compulsively buy shiny new books (and second hand ones) and then the tbr pile builds up uncontrollably... but that being said, there's almost never a moment when I don't have a book with me so perhaps I can be forgiven..? I'm also writing a book doing the self-inset thing but with the purpose of being a mental health awareness kind of thing based on my and my friends' experiences and they say write what you know rather than dubious consent smut (no shame to that either tho)
I sometimes wish the poorly writter ya had the same appeal as it did when I was 13 for the thrill of it but damn too bad I grew up healthy and unable to stand the bs
Sorry, why would we need a separate genre for 18 - 30 year olds readers? How does that benefit the category of literature as a whole? People can self sort; the next great book isn’t going to be made for the “18-30 year old market” lol
Yeh the idea of an 18-30 market for literature sounds mildly insane. But you know maybe we’re looking at it wrong. If you see these books as a form of tv, or as internet content, maybe it makes more sense?
It's basically marketing. Put that label on, and the sheep will buy. Opposite effect if it's labelled for children, no matter how good it actually is.....
I mean, if there are graphic scenes of glorified SA or plain r**** and it is depicted as romance, I would be happy if children don't get their hands on those books. Especially since not all parents monitor the stuff that their children are reading. But sure, it seems kind of weird to exclude anyone over 30 if that's what you meant😅
My only gripe is that these love interests are beginning to be boring. I mean is it a lot to ask for these guys to at least have some hobbies or... different hair?
I can't speak on the women who were full grown adults reading twilight when it came out in 2005 and being total fan girls, but I can say that they came out when I was like 14-15, I blazed through them. They were entertaining but even I, at that age recognized how shallow and utterly ignorant the main characters' choices were just so the plot could move forward. I have memories of disgust at how idiotic and genuinely dangerous Bella behaved and wanting to hurl the book into a fire at times, or how unappealing some of the ML behavior was and thinking "if a man acted that way towards me in real life, I'd be running in the opposite direction or in true American fashion, gifting the creep some lead" and i was a naive teen. I wonder if those that loved that series at my age and are now also in their 30s, if they went back an reread it, if they could keep the rose tinted glasses on?
Can you give examples? I’m not a rabid twilight fan and I haven’t read them in years, but I feel a lot of the bad decisions and bad behaviour are not necessarily defended by the narrative
@funkyfranx I wish I had the photographic memory to recall what I read 19 years ago. The only specific answer i can readily pull from memory was also portrayed somewhat in the film, where Bella goes psychotic and decides to do life-threatening things to see her beloved Edward even if it's just to witness/hear hilucinations of him. No, they weren't advocated for, as was demonstrated by the writing surrounding the actions, but still not something you want teen girls relating to or attempting to put on a pedestal as the "peak goals" of love and devotion. I didn’t relate, it's why I remember thinking how stupid it was to depict such extreme actions to convey her "deep love" for a boy she hardly knew.
OMG, I’ve been binge-watching your content like CRAZY since I stumbled upon your channel, and I truly believe we’d be amazing friends! I’m really curious how you would label my goddess energy though-my story is definitely unique. I’m 28, born in the U.S., from an Algerian family, divorced, and a single mom. Growing up, my mom never gave me control over my life-she forced the hijab on me, and though I eventually took it off and now wear it proudly on my own terms, I realize my ex-husband may have pressured me into taking it off initially. My mom was always yelling, never gave me validation, and I never felt that normal mother-daughter love. I didn’t even want a daughter when I had kids-I wanted all boys. I was a huge people-pleaser, trying to be the perfect housewife, cooking for my man, just wanting to be loved and seen. I thought getting married and having kids young would give me the stability I never had, but instead, I found myself in a much deeper struggle. Then I had a daughter, and that completely shifted my perspective. I now want all daughters. I’ve become so much more supportive of women, and having a daughter has made me realize how important it is to break the cycle of abuse and control I grew up with. I want to teach her to be strong, independent, and unapologetically herself-something I never got to experience as a child. My ex-husband? A walking case study in narcissism-picture a vulnerable narcissist with a twist of deep cultural conflict. We met when I was visiting Algeria, and I genuinely thought I could be the perfect little housewife. Spoiler alert: I was wrong. He was never happy, no matter what I did, and the “ideal Algerian wife” I tried to become? Turns out, no one would accept the demands he had for me. I wasn’t allowed to listen to music. I needed permission to leave the house. I couldn’t even download TikTok or have friends he didn’t like. My phone was off-limits in his presence, I couldn’t wear anything that wasn’t a long, floor-length dress, couldn’t look out the window while he was driving (in case I saw another man), and god forbid I spoke to another man-it was basically cheating. But, of course, he could do all of that and more. He sold jewelry to women, and the list goes on. Long story short: it was a rollercoaster that led me to lose myself to constant people-pleasing, which, well, turned into me battling alcoholism during our marriage. Here’s the weird part: he never cheated or even had wandering eyes, and was very religious, but he was OBSESSED with money in a way that eventually led to our divorce. He could never be happy, never showed any appreciation, and honestly, we were more like distant friends than partners. He was an only child, so I’m guessing that played a role in his inability to show affection or form intimacy. We were physically distant, emotionally distant... I always felt so alone. I’ve watched Dr. Ramani’s videos before (grew up with a narcissistic mom, ran away at 15), but after watching your video on Ariana Grande and Blake Lively, it felt like you were reading my mind. Your insights on human behavior have me questioning everything-now I find myself wondering: am I the narcissist here? It’s such a weird feeling, but also... empowering in a way, right? Honestly, you’ve got an incredible mind. I’d say your IQ is easily 130-ish, at minimum. Keep doing what you’re doing because you’re having a huge impact. I’m so curious to hear your thoughts on my situation-am I giving off narcissistic vibes or is this just the aftermath of being in a narcissistic relationship? P.S. Fun side note: my great-grandmother is still alive at 105 and sharp as a tack. She married at 14 and had 13 kids! Maybe that’s why I’ve always been obsessed with having so many kids! 🤷♀️
I don’t know what possessed me to stop and read your post, but it just makes me feel some of the human experience is universal. I had a mom similar to yours, controlling on everyone that might reflect on her, disinterested in anything else about me. Became a people pleaser, then married a narcissist hyper jealous controlling woman. Developed an alcohol problem while trying to be the perfect man. Failed, got divorce, full custody of my daughter. A lot of similar stuff. I always wanted a big family. I’m sure now it was because I felt lonely and unloved. It’s not going to happen for me, but I understand why it’s so attractive to me. I’ve got many friends with large families and it takes a strong partnership and hard work. If you are the type of guy who gets angry because you worked all day and now you have to do the dishes and change diapers while your wife rests… stop at 2 kids. But anyway, I wish you the best in life! You and your family.
If I had to spend my entire life living a persona, putting on a performance, rendering a particular archetype to court a woman's interest... I would off myself. That's sounds like the most miserable experience in the world. I'd rather spend life in alignment with who I am, even if I don't fit nearly inside a box, than to strategically retool myself around hyper-pedantic rules around intersexual dynamics. The good news is healthy and fulfilling relationships move beyond immature fantasy.
Did you watch the video? This is about fantasies, not real life. Nobody wants a man to be like that in real life, they explained it all pretty well. You don`t have to play a role, that´s what fantasy characters are for.
@@anthill1510 don't mistake your lived experience for that of others. It's great to hear that you're mature enough to not internalize these fantasies, but there are plenty of other people who do, and as such, do want these things in someone else. It's not like learning that lesson happens instantly for everyone either, some people have to learn that lesson the hard way.
19:01 ive always wondered why it is apparently so hard to write strong women. Lots of men catch flack for writing women poorly but ive aldo noticed that alot of hollywood writers cant seem to think of how to write a strong woman other than just making her very masculine. And thats not a bad thing necessarily, masculine women are a thing, but the idea of masculine meaning strong and feminine meaning weak is the main problem. 33:42 didnt think about it till this part but these are really negative for men as well! Promoting the idea that men are largely feral beasts of desire and firy that need to be tamed. Not only is that a super horrible thing to look for in a man but most men would feel active disgust at being looked at that way 46:00 hot take, most male fantasies include independent and competent women.
'Shadow daddies'? I'm getting too old for this crap. And the guy on the thumbnail and that story was insane. The reaction from some women was, sadly, unsurprising.
Spicy stories and characters can well written too, but those stories are too complex for most people looking for these stories/characters. Most of these books are very surface level. Nothing really bad happens. Or bad is very surface level. And girl always gets the boy. I guess most writers and readers just want to relax. Getting to romantic things very easily, kinda chosen one trope.
I dated a girl who was into CNC, we were both early twenties, and she was very inexperienced, dating only one guy for 8 years since she was 15, who she never tried that with, and I tried to delay that experience until she was able to properly communicate her boundaries so that I wouldn't have to feel anxious about causing her real harm and we could properly enjoy that kind of thing. She left me saying she didn't think we were compatible and is now seeing a narcissist who abused our mutual friend for 6 years (we learned this because she finally blocked him and ended her narcissistic trauma bond with him, we both learned they had dated after she started seeing him, she continues to see him and makes excuses for his actions). It took me a bit to get over the initial heartbreak of feeling like I was the one who wasn't good enough for her, but now I'm at the point where I wouldn't want to be with her regardless because the way we ended was very immature and disrespectful to me, as well as the fact that she is clearly not ready, but I'm extremely worried about her own well-being. I don't think she understands the difference between BDSM fantasy and genuine abuse, and it's going to be a very rude awakening. I hate that YA seems so commonly to be glorifying that kind of relationship for young women.
31:08ish as you said, it isn’t about dying, however it also isn’t necessarily about glory either. I would argue that it’s about dying ‘well’ when your time comes.
It`s about getting to feel like a hero and be worshipped. It`s about the pathos of dying heroically. It`s easy to hear in the way you formulate it "Dying well when your time comes". Who talks like that? Fantasy characters who are steeped in pathos.
@@anthill1510 no, it's about wanting to be useful. Sure, if you have a cynical view on humans, then saying "it's about ego," is really easy. But, while it's true that most people act in their own self-interest, most people at least _want_ to be altruistic. So in the situation where, "I'm probably gonna die," it becomes, "at least someone will benefit from it in some way if I do." Ironically, you have it backwards. Rather than wanting to be seen as heroic, they just want to turn the tragedy that is their death, into something meaningful for someone else, (usually to protect others in some way.) Thus, we regard it as heroic because their last act is to put good into the world. They don't get to feel like a hero or be worshipped, they're already gone.
so i have to suggest Korean dark romance genres , because these are a whole another level of bad boy troupe , and you can tell many problems in the korean society is in shown in these stories like lookism , cheating , competition between women , there is an author that may be worse than colleen hoover named solche , she has a story called cry or better yet beg , this story is popular for all the wrong reasons , its like the reverse of lolita with romanticised cheating , anyway right now the korean novels and manhwas are like the bodice rippers of the 70s and 80s , and these books are popular especially in certain misoginstic countries
People don’t understand that it’s not one or the other it’s both. It’s both dominant and a friend. It’s vertical relationship and horizontal relationship. Different hierarchical and similar morally horizontally
It's funny, while I was home for the holidays I was talking to my mom because we've both been getting back into reading the last couple years. I mentioned that I didn't realize how big of a commitment I was getting myself into when I started reading Brandon Sanderson and she said it was the same for her and A Court of Thorns and Roses, which I'd never heard of. And then a couole days later you release this, haha. (Also: I can't exactly judge her, it's not like Brando Sando and Craig Allenson are exactly high art either, as much as I enjoy them)
If the problem is p0rn books with a bad plot and infantile characters - the clearly we need p0rn books with a good plot and well written characters. Maybe a collaboration between a writer and a dom-lady who actually knows how bd-sm works? Also - go a little further in history and societies were way more egalitarian. Persian women were warriors, Assyrian women were merchants, the queen of Kush defeated the Romans. The monotheistic religions came from tribal societies that were male dominated, not from the ancient civilized world. Romans thought that the eastern cultures were too feminine, but byzantine ended up lasting 1000 more years, after Rome fell to the barbarians.
To add to the serial killer convo (while I don’t think this behavior is or has have been acceptable) I think it’s important to note that booktok has not created this behavior. It’s always been around. When Bundy and the night stalker were in trial, they had some women flocking to them because they thought these men who did terrible things to women were attractive. There are multiple interviews of women expressing this.
I had the most amazing dream, for some reason I went somewhere abd this one lady from work roughly my age knew I was sick (she's really pretty and kind). She lay down next to me and stroked my hair and head till I fell asleep in my dream lol. Best dream I've ever had. I smile thinking about it
I dislike this romanticized retelling of the importance of art class. Art class was the only class where I got in trouble for drawing my own things instead of the 50th boring still life realism painting assignment the teacher pulled out of their ass. There's nothing really lost from it, all it does is bastardize one of my favorite hobbies, because even in art class you're punished for stepping outside the line of the other production drones and having actual creativity and individuality.
@@butterflymage5623 fair enough, but out of all the public education art programs in the US, I think more people would have an experience more similar to me than not
My entire existence is characterized by profound suffering, depicted by deep despair and marked by a constant sense of anguish, filled with overwhelming distress and relentless misery.
I get the appeal of dark romance when the ml is not human, a monster being abusive and/or possessive can be excused, it is understandable (and it usually serves as a metaphor for something else), but the moment you make the ml just a regular guy...I just have to ask: in what world do you live in? How thick is your bubble that you think reading something like that is sexy and "just fantasy"? And about using it to cope with trauma, I get what they mean but there are people out there offing themselves with drugs to deal with their trauma, does it make drugs good then? As Galatea said, just because is a cope mechanism, doesn't mean is a good cope mechanism.
I really liked yalls point abt the story of Lot in Genesis. As someone who is Christian, Id like to expand a bit on yalls point. Numerous times throughout the Old Testament, especially in Genesis, we see these types of actions in the men. Abraham lied about Sarah being his wife because he was afraid a citys king would kill him for her. Lot threw his daughters to the men of Sodom and Gomorrah to appease the men there. Adam blamed Eve for him eating the forbidden fruit. And each time something horrible happens when these men try to save their own skins by throwing their wives/daughters under the bus. We see often in the trad-Christian circles "wives submit to your husbands" (and imo that text is so abused it should seek help). But they often leave out the next bit. "Husbands, love your wives like Christ loved the church". That means putting their needs above your own. That means making tough decisions for the good of the family. That means protecting her and your families with everything you have, even if it means sacrificing yourself. I think what is is that men should gently, kindly lead. And they should have women by them who help and call them on their crap when its needed. At least thats what I look for. I can be stupid and I need someone to tell me when im in the wrong I think a big problem with the "bad boy" epidemic is this misunderstanding of masculinity. Real, good, i would say true masculinity.
Alright; two things, 1: The story wherein Conan's seraglio is threatened is The Red Tower not The Pheonix on the Sword, other than that very accurate (big, big Conan/Robert Howard fan here) and 2: Sarah and Abraham were not siblings, she was his niece; he just told Pharaoh in the hopes of saving her...kind of a convoluted story TBH.
20:00 Note how she is afraid to say feminist took over culture or at least had vast influence on those taht control and force changes like dind´t allow Lola to use the crop top or they would cry the film was misogynistic, male gaze etc etc
44:44 ...so Conan is basically my power fantasy en carnate: a badass guy who lays down the law, but is a gentle, nurturing lover to women that sees them as a potential Ally rather than a liability. I.e. my father basically lol
"The woman turns the mans head" is still a concept that is based in patriachy. It`s intelligent manipulation that women had to learn in a system that didn`t give them any power. It`s the "make the man believe it was his idea" kind of getting your needs met and opinions heard. For me that`s not the goal. The goal is to actually be able to talk to your partner and have your opinions and wishes heard, not having to manipulate him on the sly to get a say in the relationship.
I agree from the "the goals is to actually..." part, what you wrote above about women not having any power is incorrect, since there were hundreds of Queens and Empresses in European history in the last 3000 years, merchants, tailors, blacksmith helpers etc. Less power is the correct form. And it would make sense, since the men were involved around logistics, tactics, leadership, infrastructure, priesthood etc. Hollywood had a negative effect on how many people view these things. In general, people would always take a good advice even if it comes from a woman and it is pretty illogical to reject the opinion of a woman while she is responsible of the education of their kids, especially if it was a boy.
To be fair, the characters in fiction are not real characters. They behave in a way, that helps its opposite character. Romantic interest always behaves in a way, that helps main character to do, what he/she wants. If she doesn't feel desired, romantic interest is obsessed about her. If she wants to be stay-at-home mom and not a girl-boss, romantic interest is very jealous and abusive. So she cannot leave ("I would like to work, but he doesn't let me"). If woman is alone, and wants somebody to care about, romantic interest is somebody, who struggles with life. If somebody is too powerful and respected, romantic interest is somebody, who behaves disrespectful and is easy to pick on
“Shadow daddy” sounds infantile. “Father of Shadow” sounds like a Dark Souls boss.
Father of shadows bringer of despair...
Hail Sithis! Void Father!
Silent hill boss "Shadow Daddy"
look up the old Tv show called Lexx:
"I serve his Shadow"
"Giga-shadow" LOL
Does it means, that Darth Vader is also Shadow Daddy? And Palpatine is Shadow Step-Daddy
I'm proud of being a bad boy. I'm bad at a lot of things. *winks with both eyes*
You must be a cat. An orange one i assume.
Every Tinder bio says this man, do better
When my daughter is a couple of years older, before she goes to college, your videos will be required viewing. Lots of wisdom and cheers for that.
Ironically thats probably the best way to make sure none of it is taken to heart. Lol She will let a guy with face tattoos knock her up just to spite you.
@@indiomoustafa2047 Thats her issue then, not his. She a grown ass woman by that point.
Your daughter will be another lily Philips
Ignore other replies, I am assuming those commenters spend too much time online and it influences their perception of women. Corn use or constant exposure to social media rage bait makes a guy hear “daughter” and make the other comments here. Parentchads stay winning.
@@AlexaDespacito-m7e Nailed it, I have no idea what teenagers are like. I was never a teenager. I have my opinion because I watch corn.
Lol this is why its very hard to take feminists seriously.
Only 12 minutes in, and y’all’s point about people who only read ACOTAR type books not being able to conceptualize other types of writing is so real. I lent a book to a friend, and half way through it she still seemed confused about the fact that it was a mystery novel. It was like she wasn’t sure how to read it because it wasn’t what she was used to. Absolutely no shade to her or anyone else, but it constantly floors me how people who claim to love reading and books only stick to one very specific type of story. It’d be like saying I’m a foodie, but I only eat french fries; occasionally switching the sauce I eat them with. Again no shade, but please don’t limit your experience to one type of thing. Branch out occasionally. Eat those fries, but maybe try something new once in a blue moon.
Stab me through the chest why don't you😂I will say, I pretty much only read fantasy because I have a deep love for the genre and I want to consume as much of it as possible in the limited time I get. Whilst fantasy is a pretty broad genre, it means that I don't get to read as much mystery or Sci-Fi as maybe I should, even though I have enjoyed those genres in the past and I know I'd enjoy them again
I had a somewhat similar experience but with movies. My best friend and bf a very smart but when my bestie streamed a movie she loved i was absolutely floored at how both of them missed so many plot points and got confused on some of the plot points. It was a Japanese/Korean movie called The Handmaiden
There's a documented case of a guy going blind by eating fries only.
If 'Bad Boys' are some how a negative trope, then explain Shadow the Hedgehog.
I'll wait.
he sells drugs to children :(
I think 90% of the answer is "furries".
Presumably because Shadow doesn’t have romantic storylines…atleast as far as I know
@@deadboispeedy2485 NO HE DOESN'T, DONT YOU DARE GOOGLE IT
Well, he became popular in his first appearance where he started out bad because people were misleading him. Then he switched sides and has been 100% heroic for most of the time. It's really just his spin off game that is awful and gave him the Edgy the Hedgy personality. Then a few animated shows decided to take that as inspiration because it's funny. Fans of the original Shadow are not happy about that.
(I remember being 14 and yelling about that a lot haha)
Never heard of “shadow daddies” in my life lmao. This knowledge isn’t the Christmas gift I was hoping for!
I'm glad you brought up that whole serial killer insanity and even more so that the fact he's nothing to look at is properly acknowledged. I feel like it makes sense to view that case in connection to the recent discussion on the decline of literacy. If we're unlearning to cricitaclly analyze texts, it's no wonder some readers of those stories cannot, in fact, tell fantasy from reality or even comprehend what they're reading. In Shadow and Bone fandom (haven't read the books, watched the show) a lot of people keep defending Alina&the Darkling ship even though that guy murdered hundreds of innocent people, violated her body autonomy and basically viewed her as an object. Add that to increased production of books -> inevitable decrease of general quality -> some bad writing is bound to become viral, reach a big audience and, well, cause harm and create demand for more bad writing. Not all YA perpetuates the shadow daddy trope, but those books that do get a lot of attention.
19:10 - I knew a part of it was the accent! (it's still only a part of it though lol)
Women themselves have said he is attractive and he's 6'6.
@@FencingMessiah I'm a woman and that man is hideous. It's almost like we're not a completely homogeneous group or something.
Here’s what people get wrong about submission:
1. Submission is neither good nor bad. It simply is.
2. Submission has multiple definitions.
Taken from Merriam Webster dictionary
transitive verb
1 a: to yield to governance or authority
b: to subject to a condition, treatment, or operation
“the metal was submitted to analysis”
2: to present or propose to another for review, consideration, or decision
also : to deliver formally
submitted my resignation
3: to put forward as an opinion or contention
“we submit that the charge is not proved”
intransitive verb
1 a: to yield oneself to the authority or will of another : SURRENDER
b: to permit oneself to be subjected to something
“had to submit to surgery”
2: to defer to or consent to abide by the opinion or authority of another
The problem with modern society is that we think submission is exclusive to dominance hierarchies and enslavement. This is simply not true.
Submission in its base form simply means to follow someone else’s lead, be it permanent or temporary.
Some forms of submission are bad such as slavery. And other forms of submission are good such as obeying traffic laws.
There are forms of submission that have nothing to do with hierarchy. Such as submitting documentation to an organization.
The red pillers are wrong about submission. But so are the feminists.
The red piller presuppose that submission is intrinsically good, while the feminists presuppose that submission is intrinsically bad.
Both are wrong. Submission is intrinsically NEUTRAL and POTENTIALLY good or bad.
Good point. Speaking as a Christian, a wife submitting to her husband (as Christ submitted to the Father) comes up ofter when talking about marriage. This isn’t meant to be the slavery version but deferring to another version. When done wrong it can become the slavery version. It’s helpful to have the neutral understanding of the word in mind for this reason.
As a Catholic, woman is supposed to submit to man, and man is supposed to submit to God. I’ve been married for nearly 10 years, whenever I feel frustrated with my wife, I usually reflect on my actions, recenter myself and make sure I’m submitting to God and conducting myself as a Good Catholic Man for my wife and our children.
I think being agreeable and cooperative is enough in relationships. Not submission.
Kimura is my favourite submission. Although it probably doesnt fit the formal definition of "submission" as in technique to submit people in grappling
@@manifest2203 I understand, what if said man is a sinner, as many are and they don’t even seek forgiveness, or seek to understand the hurt they cause. It is hard in this modern world to let your guard down. For both men and women.
The other thing about people with unresolved trauma - a lot of them are compelled to read disturbing things as a form of self-harm, which they justify to themselves in various ways so they don’t have to be consciously aware of what they’re doing.
Thank you for noticing. They do mental self harm for many reasons. One of them is to feel their feel again and again. Because the first time their trauma happened, they suppressed their feels.
I’ve been waiting for this one, it’s felt like it was coming down the pipeline. My wife got sucked into this whole fad a couple years ago and it’s been a constant point of tension since, so I’ll be watching this one on my own xD
Point of tension? As long as it's enjoyed in the way guys like the MCU, why should it cause any friction?
@ I don’t think the MCU is involved in the widespread desemination of really toxic ideas. The dark romance stuff romanticizes really horrible people who do really horrible things
@@ReraltofGivia i agree, but i also feel like adults should be able to enjoy this stuff while understanding exactly what it is
@ Yeah, that just comes down to your worldview then I guess.
I’m personally not sure people need to be enjoying stories “knowing what they are” about the violent abuse of women.
Kind of like they said in the video, if you substitute children, would that still be okay?
It’s tricky because I also don’t want to sanitized all media, I think you can depict s*xual abuse and even s*xual abuse of minors (although how could you even do that practically, and why the hell would you want to), without it becoming a moral hazard.
But the way abuse is depicted in these types of stories is a “oh god, beat me harder daddy” sort of way where the evil manipulative psychopath is the hot romantic “good guy.”
I don’t know, it’s all so complicated to try and pin down morally, but I also know for a fact that Sarah J Maas knowingly allowed books with explicit sexual content to be marketed to underage people, so I don’t need much more than that to take moral issue with her and her books.
Geeeeralt!
Have a good Christmas Galatea! Thanks for the video!
I actually quite enjoyed this format, as well as the content of the conversation. Would not be mad at all if there were more in the future, especially if it eases the workload in between the traditional format videos!
Merry Christmas, thank you for this early Christmas present. The Bad Boy Trope is so problematic, especially the Good Girl who thinks that she can change him.
I've never heard of 'shadow daddies' and I'm not sure my brain is prepared.
Can you two please make more content together! This conversation was amazing and such a unique exploration of a topic that I think needs a lot of thought and analysis!
Society encourages men to adapt and become cynical/the bad boy type. Kindness gets, far too often, taken advantage of. And it's sad that the same tropes in media keep continuing. Instead of something like Twilight being a lesson for future generations, we'll have a new version of Twilight (if there's not one out there already), and one after that, and so on.
Speaking as a guy who's single, struggling with that inner cynicism is a drag. I wouldn't recommend it.
Don’t struggle with it, embrace it. Foster it till it evolves into Stoicism.
@bannedmann4469 im absurdist personally because nothing matters and the sun will explode
always good to see somebody else passionate about Robert E Howard’s writing, theirs plenty of other examples of strong women in Howard’s work, including some of them being the main characters, and while they might not be the main focus of the story their written with far more intelligence and agency than a lot of writing today
I did a whole video on my channel gushing about Howard's writing in general, and Conan in particular. I just love his work so much.
What people think Conan is about vs. What Conan is actually about, more or less.
Really really dark dark romance is a lot more common in fanfics then in traditional publishing, so much so that there's a whole genre that I think of as martyrfic, and that's every tenth bad boy/good girl fic.
It's always oppressively dark in tone (Manacled I would consider a milder example of it) where I think the point is that the self-insert character takes on all the sin and shame of the love interest, there's never a happy end, her reputation is ruined and everyone hates her and these fics are most often unfinished
I personally don't like them, but unlike dating-a-billionere/cinderella fics, I really don't get why they exist, but some people definitely do, they're often popularish. I assume they're written by teenagers who are working though some new emotions but what baffles me is that there's never a triumph at the end, it's usually just bleak from the onset and throughout. The only emotion I can grasp is this sort of protion through taking on the social stigma of the villain
I think the trope is overused, and sincerely directed exclusively at women because men really don't like it. But in fiction anything goes. The real problem is when audiences fail to separate fiction from reality. And that's a problem coming from within the audience, and not the work of fiction or the author.
In general men tend to prefer the tough but valiant hero, like Geralt of Rivia, or the young man learning to move around the world, when it comes to romance, because male readers recoil at the bad boy with disgust by default.
Compare romance subplots in male oriented works to romance subplots in women oriented works. It's way too different.
I don't know that I would say it's aimed exclusively at women, since the female equivalent of the bad boy would be the femme fatale, which is an extremely popular trope.
@@songweretsonFemme fatales are more of an entertaining fetish than a romantic love interest...for most guys, anyways.
@@songweretson Femme fatales aren't neccesary straight up villains.
@VVabsa neither is the bad boy trope
@@songweretson I've yet to see one that hasn't irrideemable characteristics, sorry.
It's interesting how the same people who say "I told you so, you should have listened to me" would probably also say that we need to teach women to think for themselves.
But which is it? Do you want them to think for themselves, or do you want to shame and condemn them for not just listening to you and rejecting their own opinions and thoughts about a situation because YOU told them to do something different?
You're absolutely right, Galatea, people need to learn things for themselves sometimes. Especially young people, when they are practicing how to think for themselves and they haven't yet perfectly mastered when they should think for themselves and when they should go with what their parents or older friends/family are telling them because they know better. It's hard to know the right balance of that. Because older people aren't all-knowing and are not always correct, so it's not wise to just assume that you must always go with whatever they say.
Love to see these collabs with smaller creators. You help me find channels like Song and Liz not Lizzie. Very much appreciated. Happy New Year Galatea
P.S. I love Song's honesty about enjoying spicy books for their silliness. A lot of women like to pretend they are above it all when they critique it. Nuance, it exists.
LOL that 'debate' between Blaire White & Candace Owens was disgusting.
I like purple prose, unironically, when it's well written. But I hate blank slate.
Blank slates are inherently unpalatable, since nobody is a blank slate in real life.
Yes, tabula rasa is not real.
Can you please give me any recommendation?😍😍😍I read everything, i don't care about genres (romance, sci-fi, fantasy, historical, whaterever it's okay) I love purple prose 💜💜but nowadays everything is direct and straighfoward.
@Space.Panda1805 Amos Daragon. It's Sully YA, but It's free of blank slates and toxic romance.
@@Lilas.Duveteux Thanks soo much! 💜💜💜💜
Lovecraft 😉
I hope "romantasy" actually does get differentiated from fantasy for once. So sick of wanting to read about magic and adventures and getting a soap opera. (And then getting scolded for suggesting anything about that might be bad writing).
Thank you! That was an amazing video. However, I think it’s quite unfair to tell writers that "inserting themselves" into their books is something that is only for teenagers. I mean, if you look at any classic work of literature, you would see the same thing. For example, Myshkin from Dostoevsky’s The Idiot and Dostoevsky himself share a looot of traits in common. And you can’t tell me that Levin from Tolstoy’s Anna Karenina is not an idealized version of Tolstoy (or Dante in The Divine Comedy - I mean, this is literally self-insert fanfiction). Furthermore, the whole idea of a raisonneur in plays. So all this is not a new concept created by teenagers on AO3. I do not mean to say that S.J. Maas and Dante are the same, but self-insertion is kind of a really old trope, and I think it’s not fair to criticize someone for using it.
I do agree with you on most but think this was not fair
@@helenzaikina478 I think a bad self-insert is pretty obvious. A self-insert as a power fantasy for the writer is usually pretty pathetic. I doubt The Divine Comedy would be a timeless classic if Dante single-handedly defeated all of the forces of Hell and everyone in Heaven constantly gushed about how cool Dante was.
I don't want anyone to call me "daddy", except future children, PLEASE.
Thank you so much for having me on, Galatea! It was so much fun to get to talk to you. ❤
I totally forgot that I managed to slip in a Sunstone recommendation in there. 😅
@songweretson thank you for bringing up how tame , almost ‘wholesome’, the pulps and Robert E Howard are in comparison to these YA Romantasies. There was a rude chivalry to REH’s Conan, something lacking in modern fiction it seems.
@dreiraven3rvn457 it's that quote from Tower of the Elephant about how civilized men are more comfortable behaving badly because they know they're not going to get their skull crushed if they step out of line.
@@dreiraven3rvn457It's that quote from Tower of the Elephant about how "civilized" men can get away with bad behavior because there won't be the same consequences. (Apparently my original response to this got eaten by UA-cam, so this time I'm trying to be more delicate. XD)
Sunstone, as in the graphic novel about Bee Dee Es Em? Not judging (I really enjoyed it, although I do think it's still too much from a romanticised, male perspective), just wondered if you were referring to another Sunstone.
@songweretson lol love that line from Tower of the Elephant.
Besides a few caveats this was a good convo. A few things tho:
The reason why the sub is in control, is because it would be abuse if it wasnt. Within fiction or fantasy, the reader/writer is in control by creating/reading the scenario. Thats why its not necessary for the sub in the story to "be in control".
If the vast majority of women are "immature" u cant fault redpills for adapting their behavior to suit their immature desires. I know none of this stuff actually works longterm, but with a person who lacks maturity and seeks out unstable traits, nothing works longterm, because longterm requires mutual labour.
I do not understand the genetic arguement about attraction to dominant authoritive guys. I feel like a guys willingness to defend you correlates much more, with how much they care about you, than how much of a douche they are. I would say that ppl would be less likely to commit proxy violence against you if hes dominant, but honestly, that might be a 50 50...
*though
The whole “sub is actually in control” statement just never sits right with me. Just seems like such a nonsense phrase meant to discourage critical thinking. Why ab*se in a s*xual context a normalized component in romantic relationship? That seems like a question more people should be asking… but these “don’t kink shame” or “it’s just fantasy” statements stop that process.
The Young Adult genre has always had strong "Not Like Other Girls" themes, in which the main character must be differentiated from other pathetic portrayals of women, as if being anything other than a girl is what makes them "cool." You can really see the confusion getting worse and worse and see how our culture got to this point if you pay attention to what kind of media we were bombarded with.
💯 I grew up with that attitude. It feels good to break free from it and just be myself: a girly nerd. 😂
Merry Christmas and good wishes too you too and of course your dearly departed. Happy holidays to anyone reading 💕
"They equate trust with submission"
Exactly! Thank you for entangeling this.
They also equate respect with submission. It`s not. Respect is earned and freely given to somebody you respect as your equal, not taken by domination.
because they are linked. You are only looking at submission through subjugation but submission is not only about subjugation but also submission to rightful authority which requires trust and respect. If you did respect me and trust me than submitting to my leadership would not take domination.
And you’re looking at it through the historical assumption that men do have rightful authority. … Though whether ‘rightful’ is the appropriate term was always dubious. If you draw your reasoning from the Bible, then male authority was part of the Curse. Along with death. And if we should deliberately maintain it, we should also outlaw the use of combine harvesters.
@@robertblume2951 No, if I respect you and trust you I would see you as my equal partner, not submit to you. Why would anyone submit to their partner? There is no need or request for that. The moment there is a request for that your partner isn`t trustworthy any more.
There is no such thing as a "rightful authority" over your partner. Putting yourself as an autority over your partner can never be a "rightful" thing to do.
I trust my partner to make snap dicisions for both of us if I cannot be present for something. He also trusts me to make decisions for both of us in a situation where I have no opportunity to consult with him. But there is no "submitting to the authority" of the other in that.
@@arsangelica6858 that makes no sense. combine harvesters only make less work. They don't invalidate the curse of work. Have you seen office space? Is Jim less cursed than his construction worker neighbor because he works behind a desk in air conditioning?
As to rightful. It has nothing to do with historical assumptions or the bible. Wouldn't a democary be a rightful authority to submit to?
@@robertblume2951 No, if I respect you and trust you I would see you as my equal partner, not submit to you. Why would anyone submit to their partner? There is no need or request for that. The moment there is a request for that your partner isn`t trustworthy any more.
There is no such thing as a "rightful authority" over your partner. Putting yourself as an autority over your partner can never be a "rightful" thing.
I trust my partner to make snap dicisions for both of us if I cannot be present for something. He also trusts me to make decisions for both of us in a situation where I have no opportunity to consult with him. But there is no "submitting to the authority" of the other in that.
Finally. The kind of book content I’ve been looking for. Someone willing to look at both sides of the argument and point out genuine inconsistencies with trashy “literature”
The wanting women to submit and be obedient thing is weird. It's treated as a moral failing if they want to do anything outside of caring for the children and trying to please their husband. Like they're not allowed to have any goals or aspiations or think freely. As for men, they want us be stoic at all times, and work, and pray, that's it. They want everyone to be robots.
Some men want their little power trip every day when they come home. Especially religious men, they like to feel like little gods in their own home. Blasphemous, you would think.
only narcs want that
Galatea, when are you going to make a video about the muslims' actions on British women? I do not see any feminist against the EU/NGOs/Institutions when they are importing "bad apples". Everytime when (let's say) someone tries to do something he is labelled all the names like fascist, Putinist etc
Merry Christmas!!
Do you realize that could get her beheaded if such a video went viral?
I think that goes beyond her forte. You need to have a strong grasp on culture, Islamic theology and societal background to explain the psychology of Muslims clearly. I recommend you to watch Apostle Prophet or one of those ex muslim commentators instead as they will have much more relevant and indepth knowledge.
@soupman9616 I know Apostle, you are right.
The reason why I specifically asked for her is because women will more likely listen to another woman and the more women from social media talk about this, the faster we solve it.
There are tonnes of feminists talking out against this. You are just talking about woke libfems who call themselves ‘intersectional feminists’ which in their minds means they’re not allowed to criticise Islam or men of colour because it’s racist. Old school feminists, radical feminists (that doesn’t mean what you think it means btw) and moderate feminists like myself never stop talking about it.
Modern liberal feminism isn’t in women’s interests, it panders to men with fetishes and Islamists. But that’s not all what feminism encompasses even today.
The other part of this is that the feminists who are talking about this don’t run around screaming that they’re feminists, they just embody their beliefs through their words and actions. The women slapping ‘feminist’ stickers on everything are, inversely, performative and not good feminists.
Mr Darcy was written to be a “misunderstood bad boy” character and regardless he was so polite and gentle lol, but he still gave off that vibe and many women are still attracted to his character to this day.
Haunting Adeline is the worst and most toxic book I've ever frkn read, I read it a couple of years back, it's so disturbing how so many women fawn over the stalker, borderline grapist, Zade Meadows. I hate it so fkn much. I love reading romance (I like dark romance when written well). But it's so difficult to find actually decent ones where the guy isn't a complete piece of shite.
I don't understand the Zafe obsession! He's such a monster! One reviewer I follow has said that a lot of these books should be classified as e*otic horror, because the romances are not romances.
he ain't borderline, he straight up is one and including violating her with a gun.
this was a great conversation! thanks ladies :)
Happy Christmas.
Thank you for consistantly being one of the few places on this platform where I can hear a thoughtful woman actually thinking.
I saw this video and thought "Wow, you were fast to making an analysis on the reaction to Luigi Mangione"
I never read Tanora Pierces' Lioness series. I think because by that time I was tired of the whole girl dresses as a boy trope, though I do get why it was popular at some point. I did really like her Emelan Universe. There are various women in dresses that are good and bad.
I thought I was the only one who noticed this trope being forced into every single book about a girl. I've literally thrown books against the wall because of it. JUST LET THEM BE A GIRL AND HAVE AN ADVENTURE! No wonder all my friends turned (youtube won't let me say it). HAVE YOU SEEN OUR MEDIA?!
Your guest has great taste, absolutely love the Conan books. She's right about the character too, people write him off as a one note barbarian, which is hilarious because most of the stories have some element of the people in-universe doing the same, to their detriment.
Honestly I'm at the point where it doesn't matter to me how bad a book is if it encourages young people to read. I have seen so many young people who proudly declare that they never read books at all, or only read the dialog parts or declare the book as boring if the first chapter isn't filled with action and stop reading. There are so many people who can't read one single page of text without declaring "too long, didn't read".
The teens who were absolutely obsessed with twilight are adults now, and I highly doubt that Edward being a psycho stalker portrayed as a romantic boyfriend lead all or even many of these people into seeking that kind of nutjobs in real life. It was just simple escapism because being a teenager is a mess. But that nutjob vampire was fascinating enough that it caused people to read multiple books. Not very good books, but a bad book is better than a good day spent scrolling tiktok.
They're not reading because a lot of them (at least in the US) were legitimately taught English wrong. Something like 75% of schools in the US still use whole language learning to teach, which has been roundly discredited as a teaching method, in favor of phonics.
What this means is that reading kinda becomes a chore given how much learning English that way slows comprehension down. It's not so much that they have things they like better, (though that's absolutely a part of it) it's that the act of reading isn't all that enjoyable for them.
The majority of books aren't beneficial or well written. The writing industry romanticized reading to make people think books are always wonderful and educational. This is only true a minority of the time. Kids don't read books because they're poorly edited trash. Adults think reading is good because they don't actually read or finish many books themselves. I say this as someone who's read thousands of books. The majority are not good.
@@lunalee3021 while I agree that the majority of books are not exceptionally well written (being benefical is subjective in my eyes. Some people say that if you enjoy it, it's benefical even if it's objectively cheap trash), everyone starts reading somewhere, and if reading poorly written but exciting trash as a teen keeps you reading and trying to find those better books later, I find it better than not developing the ability and patience to read long-form texts at all.
Good point, the thing thats compelling in bad boys is getting to the heart of gold part and the character developement and trauma maybe making them acting out and you know dangerous , damaged but caring and interesting,
is it too hard to have the bad boy maybe on the main efforts and calling out getting like better,and show it? Bad boys are interesting if they arent just cheeap flat toxic abusive without good quaklities. A bad boys apeal is to fix him and have him change for you and that, not being abusive or a doormat main
Goodness, I fully enjoyed listening to the both of you! There were many points mentioned that made my eyes widen in realization- thank you guys 👏
So as a general observation and summation of the 'women like bad boys to submit to' debacle. In those books the women does end up with the most hold in the relationship. In short those books are fantasies, the beginning is the submitting/forced fantasies and then the mid-end is the power trip portion.
The Red pill uses this as a co-sign that women want and are attracted to this. I disagree, most women do not want this. But you have to look deeper as to why theyre ATTRACTED to it, because they undeniably are. Women dont look @ those books and go "oh wow, i get to have control over him @ the end of book" they dont know that until they read it. They see ' hot guy, issues, dominant, hawt🥵' and thats what ATTRACTS theyre attention. They are attracted to the submission/bad boy stuff and then they are fulfilled by the power trip at the end. Its a "come for the coffee, stay for the company" type deal. So the Tate-O-Sphere isnt completely wrong
As another commenter pointed out, you also have to consider the declining media literacy, which causes people to be less able to differentiate fact from fiction. So some of them see the sorts of things that happen in these books and take it into the real world with them.
@@Batmans_Pet_Goldfish I agree but you have to be careful with that because that begs the question of are they taking out something that isn't real or are they taking out something real that was put in.
Most things ppl put in books like this are from the reality or what's around them. So deciphering what's fact from fiction gets blurry. So your example might be, author making something up completely i.e 'fiction' of let's say women liking to be yanked hard everywhere and he puts it in the book. Then there's the authors experience saying that women like to be treated rough and this is 'non-fiction' and he puts it in the book. Both of these aren't the greatest messages but one holds more weight in reality than the other. So in this case no matter which one you pick 'fiction' or 'non' it's bad. Media literacy is good but even with it if the message is true but still bad it'll get to you.
The thing is though what people like in fiction is completely different than what they go for in real life. Most of these women are just dating normal, respectable men. The average woman who reads is lower middle class and isn’t dating criminal scumbags.
@ConnorAldorna I was speaking more along the lines of reading something that gives someone a thrill, but then internalizing that, regardless of whether or not it's a healthy thing. Basically, it's more about giving in to primal temptations, and not letting it stay fictional. They get emotionally invested to a point of tying their identity to a character and then taking that character's attitude and approach to things into the real world. They take the characters as role models, essentially.
I suppose it's less about media literacy and more about maturity, but someone saying they recognize the difference between fiction and reality in the abstract when asked, won't mean they put it into practice. And from my experience, it's a lot more common than it should be, from both men and women.
Happy Boxing Day Galatea!
It’s always a pleasure to see a new video from you 😄
Thank you for blessing the holidays with a new one!
My take (before listening)
Because society gets more unstable and unstable, women crave for men that have "shadow daddy" characteristics. Capable, strong, independent, experienced, powerful. Basically someone that can keep them safe in dark times.
I think this highlights a much greater problem in the world. Everything is about domination, nothing is about partnership
They are talking about fantasy books. In the real world most people are searching for equal partnerships. Don`t you leave the house and meet real people? People have very normal partnerships, there normally isn`t a power dynamic. Maybe sometimes in the bedroom if they are into that, but you won`t get to see that. soooo ... where do you get the idea that real life realtionships are about domination?
@anthill1510 Unfortunately I've met far too many people who trear everything as a power dynamic
@mattevans4377 Ok. I guess you live somewhere else than I do.
Shadow daddy sounds very jungian, like shadow is to self, what you can't really perceive about yourself, this would be a shadow to a father figure, everything you can't admit to yourself that lacked in that relationship, and now it's taking a human form, a shadow version of a father, aka shadow daddy
That's actually a really good point.
That's exactly why these women are attracted to these men. Attraction is largely subconscious and formed by the relationship with the opposite sex parent growing up. Many fathers are unintentionally abusive or emotionally neglectful and this reflects usually in the men the women date in an attempt to get them to become conscious of this wound. Women end up dating versions of their fathers.
Good morning, Internet Friends,
Merry Christmas 🎄🎅
Merry Christmas to you too friend
🎶Have yourself a Merry Little Christmas
Let your heart be light 🎶
You too merry christmas
1:13:40 what you just said about the manifestation of female fear strikes me as SO accurate, and it makes a LOT of sense why these types of stories are so prevalent in our modern society, when modern feminism is constantly driving further wedges between men and women and painting men as evil predators that are against women and want to harm us.
Wow. That really makes a lot of sense, and I can totally see why our modern culture has created this kind of trend in women's fiction. Great analysis.
HA! Great minds! Hi buddy!
@@ehdrake oh hey! Neat to see someone else who loves this channel! I try to recommend her to all my story-loving friends. She's so fantastic.
To add to my original comment: this theory also makes sense of why these kinds of stories have no appeal to me at all, because I'm not someone who believes men are all pigs...
It's like these women think men are all pigs, so their best-case-scenario is that they can find a pig they're able to tame. But I look at that and just think "why are you choosing a pig at all when there are tons of other options that aren't even pigs to begin with?"
@@CassTeaElle Agreed, been watrhcing her since she was a BookTube channel. Love the shift in content
Tbf, as an avid reader, having a buttload of books more than you can read is half the fun 😂 I compulsively buy shiny new books (and second hand ones) and then the tbr pile builds up uncontrollably... but that being said, there's almost never a moment when I don't have a book with me so perhaps I can be forgiven..? I'm also writing a book doing the self-inset thing but with the purpose of being a mental health awareness kind of thing based on my and my friends' experiences and they say write what you know rather than dubious consent smut (no shame to that either tho)
Books are a sacred cow, you aren't allowed to say most of them are bad.
Pilgrims Pass just released a video on Arwen and the power of her femininity. He talks about things that cross the same paths as this does.
Yeah, he’s pretty good. Particularly on that subject.
Love that guy he's video on attack on Titan and Avatar is rad
Pilgrim's Pass is amazing
I love Pilgrims Pass!
Bad Boy (immature): Rhysand
Bad Men (mature): Ebenezer Scrooge
Bah humbug!
I’d rather be locked in a house with Scrooge than Rhysand.
I sometimes wish the poorly writter ya had the same appeal as it did when I was 13 for the thrill of it
but damn too bad I grew up healthy and unable to stand the bs
I dont read any of these types of books so this is pretty enlightening to hear about stuff like the New Adult category
The algo kneecapped this one. It only just now popped up in my feed.
Sorry, why would we need a separate genre for 18 - 30 year olds readers? How does that benefit the category of literature as a whole? People can self sort; the next great book isn’t going to be made for the “18-30 year old market” lol
Yeh the idea of an 18-30 market for literature sounds mildly insane. But you know maybe we’re looking at it wrong. If you see these books as a form of tv, or as internet content, maybe it makes more sense?
@ I guess, I don’t know I don’t see a lot of “if you’re 18-30, check out true detective!” Generally media just disseminates naturally
I think the issue should be less the age itself, and more that people who are currently that age tend to have worse media literacy.
It's basically marketing. Put that label on, and the sheep will buy. Opposite effect if it's labelled for children, no matter how good it actually is.....
I mean, if there are graphic scenes of glorified SA or plain r**** and it is depicted as romance, I would be happy if children don't get their hands on those books. Especially since not all parents monitor the stuff that their children are reading. But sure, it seems kind of weird to exclude anyone over 30 if that's what you meant😅
My only gripe is that these love interests are beginning to be boring. I mean is it a lot to ask for these guys to at least have some hobbies or... different hair?
I remember that debate between Blair White and Candice Owens. It was when I realized that Owens was really not a nice person.
I think I was neutral to her before that. But after that, she left a bad taste in my mouth.
I can't speak on the women who were full grown adults reading twilight when it came out in 2005 and being total fan girls, but I can say that they came out when I was like 14-15, I blazed through them. They were entertaining but even I, at that age recognized how shallow and utterly ignorant the main characters' choices were just so the plot could move forward. I have memories of disgust at how idiotic and genuinely dangerous Bella behaved and wanting to hurl the book into a fire at times, or how unappealing some of the ML behavior was and thinking "if a man acted that way towards me in real life, I'd be running in the opposite direction or in true American fashion, gifting the creep some lead" and i was a naive teen. I wonder if those that loved that series at my age and are now also in their 30s, if they went back an reread it, if they could keep the rose tinted glasses on?
Can you give examples? I’m not a rabid twilight fan and I haven’t read them in years, but I feel a lot of the bad decisions and bad behaviour are not necessarily defended by the narrative
@funkyfranx I wish I had the photographic memory to recall what I read 19 years ago. The only specific answer i can readily pull from memory was also portrayed somewhat in the film, where Bella goes psychotic and decides to do life-threatening things to see her beloved Edward even if it's just to witness/hear hilucinations of him. No, they weren't advocated for, as was demonstrated by the writing surrounding the actions, but still not something you want teen girls relating to or attempting to put on a pedestal as the "peak goals" of love and devotion. I didn’t relate, it's why I remember thinking how stupid it was to depict such extreme actions to convey her "deep love" for a boy she hardly knew.
OMG, I’ve been binge-watching your content like CRAZY since I stumbled upon your channel, and I truly believe we’d be amazing friends! I’m really curious how you would label my goddess energy though-my story is definitely unique. I’m 28, born in the U.S., from an Algerian family, divorced, and a single mom. Growing up, my mom never gave me control over my life-she forced the hijab on me, and though I eventually took it off and now wear it proudly on my own terms, I realize my ex-husband may have pressured me into taking it off initially. My mom was always yelling, never gave me validation, and I never felt that normal mother-daughter love. I didn’t even want a daughter when I had kids-I wanted all boys. I was a huge people-pleaser, trying to be the perfect housewife, cooking for my man, just wanting to be loved and seen. I thought getting married and having kids young would give me the stability I never had, but instead, I found myself in a much deeper struggle.
Then I had a daughter, and that completely shifted my perspective. I now want all daughters. I’ve become so much more supportive of women, and having a daughter has made me realize how important it is to break the cycle of abuse and control I grew up with. I want to teach her to be strong, independent, and unapologetically herself-something I never got to experience as a child.
My ex-husband? A walking case study in narcissism-picture a vulnerable narcissist with a twist of deep cultural conflict. We met when I was visiting Algeria, and I genuinely thought I could be the perfect little housewife. Spoiler alert: I was wrong. He was never happy, no matter what I did, and the “ideal Algerian wife” I tried to become? Turns out, no one would accept the demands he had for me.
I wasn’t allowed to listen to music. I needed permission to leave the house. I couldn’t even download TikTok or have friends he didn’t like. My phone was off-limits in his presence, I couldn’t wear anything that wasn’t a long, floor-length dress, couldn’t look out the window while he was driving (in case I saw another man), and god forbid I spoke to another man-it was basically cheating. But, of course, he could do all of that and more. He sold jewelry to women, and the list goes on. Long story short: it was a rollercoaster that led me to lose myself to constant people-pleasing, which, well, turned into me battling alcoholism during our marriage.
Here’s the weird part: he never cheated or even had wandering eyes, and was very religious, but he was OBSESSED with money in a way that eventually led to our divorce. He could never be happy, never showed any appreciation, and honestly, we were more like distant friends than partners. He was an only child, so I’m guessing that played a role in his inability to show affection or form intimacy. We were physically distant, emotionally distant... I always felt so alone.
I’ve watched Dr. Ramani’s videos before (grew up with a narcissistic mom, ran away at 15), but after watching your video on Ariana Grande and Blake Lively, it felt like you were reading my mind. Your insights on human behavior have me questioning everything-now I find myself wondering: am I the narcissist here? It’s such a weird feeling, but also... empowering in a way, right?
Honestly, you’ve got an incredible mind. I’d say your IQ is easily 130-ish, at minimum. Keep doing what you’re doing because you’re having a huge impact. I’m so curious to hear your thoughts on my situation-am I giving off narcissistic vibes or is this just the aftermath of being in a narcissistic relationship?
P.S. Fun side note: my great-grandmother is still alive at 105 and sharp as a tack. She married at 14 and had 13 kids! Maybe that’s why I’ve always been obsessed with having so many kids! 🤷♀️
I don’t know what possessed me to stop and read your post, but it just makes me feel some of the human experience is universal. I had a mom similar to yours, controlling on everyone that might reflect on her, disinterested in anything else about me. Became a people pleaser, then married a narcissist hyper jealous controlling woman. Developed an alcohol problem while trying to be the perfect man. Failed, got divorce, full custody of my daughter. A lot of similar stuff.
I always wanted a big family. I’m sure now it was because I felt lonely and unloved. It’s not going to happen for me, but I understand why it’s so attractive to me. I’ve got many friends with large families and it takes a strong partnership and hard work. If you are the type of guy who gets angry because you worked all day and now you have to do the dishes and change diapers while your wife rests… stop at 2 kids.
But anyway, I wish you the best in life! You and your family.
Love your giant Waterhouse print back there! 👀
If I had to spend my entire life living a persona, putting on a performance, rendering a particular archetype to court a woman's interest... I would off myself. That's sounds like the most miserable experience in the world. I'd rather spend life in alignment with who I am, even if I don't fit nearly inside a box, than to strategically retool myself around hyper-pedantic rules around intersexual dynamics. The good news is healthy and fulfilling relationships move beyond immature fantasy.
As long as you find someone mature enough for that.
Did you watch the video? This is about fantasies, not real life. Nobody wants a man to be like that in real life, they explained it all pretty well. You don`t have to play a role, that´s what fantasy characters are for.
@@anthill1510 don't mistake your lived experience for that of others. It's great to hear that you're mature enough to not internalize these fantasies, but there are plenty of other people who do, and as such, do want these things in someone else. It's not like learning that lesson happens instantly for everyone either, some people have to learn that lesson the hard way.
19:01 ive always wondered why it is apparently so hard to write strong women. Lots of men catch flack for writing women poorly but ive aldo noticed that alot of hollywood writers cant seem to think of how to write a strong woman other than just making her very masculine. And thats not a bad thing necessarily, masculine women are a thing, but the idea of masculine meaning strong and feminine meaning weak is the main problem.
33:42 didnt think about it till this part but these are really negative for men as well! Promoting the idea that men are largely feral beasts of desire and firy that need to be tamed. Not only is that a super horrible thing to look for in a man but most men would feel active disgust at being looked at that way
46:00 hot take, most male fantasies include independent and competent women.
They don’t want just any man to do those things, they want high status attractive men to.
Yeah and?
Why no men with low status and not-so-good looks? @@leriava
'Shadow daddies'? I'm getting too old for this crap.
And the guy on the thumbnail and that story was insane. The reaction from some women was, sadly, unsurprising.
Most of those women give me the biggest ick. Like Song said, dud wasn't much of a looker.
Spicy stories and characters can well written too, but those stories are too complex for most people looking for these stories/characters. Most of these books are very surface level. Nothing really bad happens. Or bad is very surface level. And girl always gets the boy. I guess most writers and readers just want to relax. Getting to romantic things very easily, kinda chosen one trope.
I dated a girl who was into CNC, we were both early twenties, and she was very inexperienced, dating only one guy for 8 years since she was 15, who she never tried that with, and I tried to delay that experience until she was able to properly communicate her boundaries so that I wouldn't have to feel anxious about causing her real harm and we could properly enjoy that kind of thing. She left me saying she didn't think we were compatible and is now seeing a narcissist who abused our mutual friend for 6 years (we learned this because she finally blocked him and ended her narcissistic trauma bond with him, we both learned they had dated after she started seeing him, she continues to see him and makes excuses for his actions).
It took me a bit to get over the initial heartbreak of feeling like I was the one who wasn't good enough for her, but now I'm at the point where I wouldn't want to be with her regardless because the way we ended was very immature and disrespectful to me, as well as the fact that she is clearly not ready, but I'm extremely worried about her own well-being. I don't think she understands the difference between BDSM fantasy and genuine abuse, and it's going to be a very rude awakening. I hate that YA seems so commonly to be glorifying that kind of relationship for young women.
Sorry to say but that narcissist can live without kneecaps. If it's not for her, then for the sake of goodness.
31:08ish as you said, it isn’t about dying, however it also isn’t necessarily about glory either. I would argue that it’s about dying ‘well’ when your time comes.
Yep. It's that, "well, this situation isn't ideal, so I might as well make it useful for someone else."
@@Batmans_Pet_Goldfish exactly
It`s about getting to feel like a hero and be worshipped. It`s about the pathos of dying heroically.
It`s easy to hear in the way you formulate it "Dying well when your time comes".
Who talks like that? Fantasy characters who are steeped in pathos.
Sometimes its about dying :(
@@anthill1510 no, it's about wanting to be useful. Sure, if you have a cynical view on humans, then saying "it's about ego," is really easy. But, while it's true that most people act in their own self-interest, most people at least _want_ to be altruistic. So in the situation where, "I'm probably gonna die," it becomes, "at least someone will benefit from it in some way if I do."
Ironically, you have it backwards. Rather than wanting to be seen as heroic, they just want to turn the tragedy that is their death, into something meaningful for someone else, (usually to protect others in some way.) Thus, we regard it as heroic because their last act is to put good into the world. They don't get to feel like a hero or be worshipped, they're already gone.
so i have to suggest Korean dark romance genres , because these are a whole another level of bad boy troupe , and you can tell many problems in the korean society is in shown in these stories like lookism , cheating , competition between women , there is an author that may be worse than colleen hoover named solche , she has a story called cry or better yet beg , this story is popular for all the wrong reasons , its like the reverse of lolita with romanticised cheating , anyway right now the korean novels and manhwas are like the bodice rippers of the 70s and 80s , and these books are popular especially in certain misoginstic countries
The series “Sweetpea” has raised a lot of discussions on female rage, def curious what your thoughts are on the topic/series
People don’t understand that it’s not one or the other it’s both. It’s both dominant and a friend. It’s vertical relationship and horizontal relationship. Different hierarchical and similar morally horizontally
It's funny, while I was home for the holidays I was talking to my mom because we've both been getting back into reading the last couple years. I mentioned that I didn't realize how big of a commitment I was getting myself into when I started reading Brandon Sanderson and she said it was the same for her and A Court of Thorns and Roses, which I'd never heard of. And then a couole days later you release this, haha.
(Also: I can't exactly judge her, it's not like Brando Sando and Craig Allenson are exactly high art either, as much as I enjoy them)
If the problem is p0rn books with a bad plot and infantile characters - the clearly we need p0rn books with a good plot and well written characters. Maybe a collaboration between a writer and a dom-lady who actually knows how bd-sm works?
Also - go a little further in history and societies were way more egalitarian. Persian women were warriors, Assyrian women were merchants, the queen of Kush defeated the Romans. The monotheistic religions came from tribal societies that were male dominated, not from the ancient civilized world. Romans thought that the eastern cultures were too feminine, but byzantine ended up lasting 1000 more years, after Rome fell to the barbarians.
Merry Christmas 🎄 Galatea!
To add to the serial killer convo (while I don’t think this behavior is or has have been acceptable) I think it’s important to note that booktok has not created this behavior. It’s always been around. When Bundy and the night stalker were in trial, they had some women flocking to them because they thought these men who did terrible things to women were attractive. There are multiple interviews of women expressing this.
I had the most amazing dream, for some reason I went somewhere abd this one lady from work roughly my age knew I was sick (she's really pretty and kind). She lay down next to me and stroked my hair and head till I fell asleep in my dream lol. Best dream I've ever had. I smile thinking about it
Still here asking for a video on the Golden Boy trope.
i read fourth wing, the way xaden was actully a shadow daddy😭😭i will not be reading the next one
I dislike this romanticized retelling of the importance of art class. Art class was the only class where I got in trouble for drawing my own things instead of the 50th boring still life realism painting assignment the teacher pulled out of their ass. There's nothing really lost from it, all it does is bastardize one of my favorite hobbies, because even in art class you're punished for stepping outside the line of the other production drones and having actual creativity and individuality.
Yeah but that’s your personalized experience, that was almost never my experience with art class.
@@butterflymage5623 fair enough, but out of all the public education art programs in the US, I think more people would have an experience more similar to me than not
I remember an art class at school where I had to spend several weeks working on an excessively detailed pencil drawing of one of my trainers.
@@runningcommentary2125 I'm sorry my dude, hope that didn't ruin art for you
Merry Christmas and happy 2025 gorgeous!!
Merry Christmas Everyone!!
My entire existence is characterized by profound suffering, depicted by deep despair and marked by a constant sense of anguish, filled with overwhelming distress and relentless misery.
I get the appeal of dark romance when the ml is not human, a monster being abusive and/or possessive can be excused, it is understandable (and it usually serves as a metaphor for something else), but the moment you make the ml just a regular guy...I just have to ask: in what world do you live in? How thick is your bubble that you think reading something like that is sexy and "just fantasy"?
And about using it to cope with trauma, I get what they mean but there are people out there offing themselves with drugs to deal with their trauma, does it make drugs good then? As Galatea said, just because is a cope mechanism, doesn't mean is a good cope mechanism.
I really liked yalls point abt the story of Lot in Genesis. As someone who is Christian, Id like to expand a bit on yalls point.
Numerous times throughout the Old Testament, especially in Genesis, we see these types of actions in the men. Abraham lied about Sarah being his wife because he was afraid a citys king would kill him for her. Lot threw his daughters to the men of Sodom and Gomorrah to appease the men there. Adam blamed Eve for him eating the forbidden fruit. And each time something horrible happens when these men try to save their own skins by throwing their wives/daughters under the bus.
We see often in the trad-Christian circles "wives submit to your husbands" (and imo that text is so abused it should seek help). But they often leave out the next bit. "Husbands, love your wives like Christ loved the church". That means putting their needs above your own. That means making tough decisions for the good of the family. That means protecting her and your families with everything you have, even if it means sacrificing yourself.
I think what is is that men should gently, kindly lead. And they should have women by them who help and call them on their crap when its needed. At least thats what I look for. I can be stupid and I need someone to tell me when im in the wrong
I think a big problem with the "bad boy" epidemic is this misunderstanding of masculinity. Real, good, i would say true masculinity.
I completely agree! (though I haven’t made it to that part in the video 😂)
I love this conversation.
Great convo guys.
Merry Christmas to you and your kin.
Merry Christmas 🎄 ❤
Alright; two things, 1: The story wherein Conan's seraglio is threatened is The Red Tower not The Pheonix on the Sword, other than that very accurate (big, big Conan/Robert Howard fan here) and 2: Sarah and Abraham were not siblings, she was his niece; he just told Pharaoh in the hopes of saving her...kind of a convoluted story TBH.
20:00 Note how she is afraid to say feminist took over culture or at least had vast influence on those taht control and force changes like dind´t allow Lola to use the crop top or they would cry the film was misogynistic, male gaze etc etc
44:44 ...so Conan is basically my power fantasy en carnate: a badass guy who lays down the law, but is a gentle, nurturing lover to women that sees them as a potential Ally rather than a liability.
I.e. my father basically lol
Great video!
"The woman turns the mans head" is still a concept that is based in patriachy. It`s intelligent manipulation that women had to learn in a system that didn`t give them any power. It`s the "make the man believe it was his idea" kind of getting your needs met and opinions heard. For me that`s not the goal. The goal is to actually be able to talk to your partner and have your opinions and wishes heard, not having to manipulate him on the sly to get a say in the relationship.
I agree from the "the goals is to actually..." part, what you wrote above about women not having any power is incorrect, since there were hundreds of Queens and Empresses in European history in the last 3000 years, merchants, tailors, blacksmith helpers etc. Less power is the correct form. And it would make sense, since the men were involved around logistics, tactics, leadership, infrastructure, priesthood etc.
Hollywood had a negative effect on how many people view these things. In general, people would always take a good advice even if it comes from a woman and it is pretty illogical to reject the opinion of a woman while she is responsible of the education of their kids, especially if it was a boy.
I never got this analogy because doesn't it depend on the decision? Could say the same about the man just being the neck in other areas.
The kind of writer you’re describing (hasn’t worked out trauma) fits Leslie Headland to a T.
51:04 "I have a friend who's my co host"
RIP
To be fair, the characters in fiction are not real characters. They behave in a way, that helps its opposite character. Romantic interest always behaves in a way, that helps main character to do, what he/she wants. If she doesn't feel desired, romantic interest is obsessed about her. If she wants to be stay-at-home mom and not a girl-boss, romantic interest is very jealous and abusive. So she cannot leave ("I would like to work, but he doesn't let me"). If woman is alone, and wants somebody to care about, romantic interest is somebody, who struggles with life. If somebody is too powerful and respected, romantic interest is somebody, who behaves disrespectful and is easy to pick on
Wish everyone who reads this a Merry Christmas! To you and Yours, Cheers!
Now finding out there is a new authentic observer video while I was on vacation?!?!
Oooh! A Christmas Surprise!