True Patina’s Black Bay Video: ua-cam.com/video/mG1IxpEYJlM/v-deo.html "Everybody" is of course a generalisation here, but I felt that "Most People" didn't have the same punch for the title, y'know? What are your thoughts on Tudor’s Infamous Snowflake Hand? 🥃
Maybe there is a sound compromise which can be arrived at: The Pelagos series remains unchanged with only triangles and rectangles on dials and hands and the Black Bay line with the dials also unchanged, but sword hands (like the Rolex Submariner Ref. 5517 and the Ginault Ocean Rover / Ocean Rover II) instead of the snowflake designs. For the BB GMT, I suggest a 24-hour hand like the Rolex GMT-Master (II), but with the triangle a bit longer to make it more distinguishable from the dots on the dial in low light conditions. It would still fit the Tudor heritage, but easily be distinguishable from Rolex and at the same time look so much better - at least for my personal taste.
The snowflake is part of the brand identity and a distinguisher. It immedietely identifies the watch's brand as Tudor- and that is an invaluable in marketing. I like it - and like many probably find it a aesthetic selling point.
I agree and disagree... It's absolutely a brand identifier that immediately screams "Tudor". But that's a good thing if it's generally liked - when it's divisive, I guess the question is whether it distinguishes the watch enough to make the fans buy and generate brand exposure as a talking point (as we're doing here!)... Or whether it puts off enough potential buyers that it's a net negative. Obviously the brand is doing fine, so if it IS a net negative, they're doing enough right to offset it. I can't help but feel it looks a bit clunky... Everything else on a Black Bay is bang on point for me, but that almost makes the clunkiness of the hour hand more eyecatching in a disappointing way. Watching a few vids like this to see if I can be converted to it, but it's just not quite happening.
You are totally right about the snowflake needing the boxed markers as seen in the Pelagos. If you’re gonna go quirky, you gotta unify it design-wise across the watch. The Pelagos achieves that in large part thanks to the markers.
The Pelegos square indicators do not work for me. The snowflake hand is fine balanced by all the circular shapes inherent to a wrist watch, including the indicators on the black bay(s). But all those square indicators on the Pelegos look forced. As the snowflake hand moves around it creates strange and unpleasing angles against the Pelegos indicators.
Thank you for highlighting True Patina’s excellent work. I bought Blackbays 4 times this is year so I guess I dont personally have any issues with the snowflake hand. However, I’ve always wondered how these Tudor watches would look like without them. Now I know that it wont make them look better. Like you said, the watch actually lost a bit of its character without the oft criticized hand shape.
It’s true, the Snowflake handset is at home on the Pelagos. The matching squared indices go perfectly with the handset. Saying that, I’m wearing my P01 right now and with round indices even, the Snowflake handset just looks beautiful. It’s SO Tudor. Their signature. I love them! The only Watch they were a bit out of place on was the Alinghi Red Bull FXD Chronograph that I tried on. They still looked great on the Watch but, cluttered the reading of the Chronographs sub registers at times. I guess Mercedes hands do the same on the small dial of a Daytona though? It’s all down to whether you like the aesthetic of the Watch I guess? Great topic here boet. Have a wonderful Christmas 🎄 and may 2024 see you creating yet more awesome content for us to enjoy and think about. ✊
I hated it becauze it was different from what I was used to. I love it now. Thank you Tudor, for staying the course! But please!!! Do something a little different for the chronographs! The snowflake too often covers the sub dials!
I have and enjoy the BB Pro. I have a little list of ways it could be improved (looking at you, faux rivets), but I have zero issue with the snowflake hand! It has become iconic for Tudor
Wholeheartedly agree it should on the Pelagos and the Pelagos only. While there are some attractive and fun Tudors that I’d be interested in trying(LHD),I’ve ultimately moved on from the brand. It became a filler brand or place holder for me till I grew as a watch lover and amateur collector. For me, Tudor was a “rite of passage” watch. Merry Christmas dude! Looking forward to your “predictions” content.
Nicely said man, it's almost a natural progression experiencing Tudor and then moving on to other pieces. My FXD is THE watch for the job. brilliant machine as a tool watch but the Black Bay? Doesn't really tick all the boxes for me... they do feel like "rite of passage" pieces 😉 Have an excellent Christmas and New Year man! Also looking forward to busting out the designs again for early next year 🔥
I liked both comments, even though I disagree with them. Or at least at some point. Pelagos doesn't speak to me at all, maybe except the last iteration. The first Pelagos watches are too much of a tool watch for my requirements (at this price point). Yet BB fits perfectly, especially in smaller sizes. I guess it depends on a personal preferences and taste. Therefore, I don't see any “rite passage” thing in it - which would suggest that these are watches for people who don't quite know what is good and what is not, and when they eventually realise it, they exchange Tudor for something else. At least as long as we are speaking about Tudor price shelf. However, it’s a good thing that these collections provoke discussions, that is the proof the brand is developing, and people are really into it.
Great video and analysis. Personally I love the complete snowflake scheme including the square markers and sec hand. For the BB, I would prefer a stick hour hand like the one Tudor made for "Only Watch"
I disliked snowflake hands on pictures, and thought I would dislike in the flesh... till I owned a Tudor. And now I love it. You gotta experience it in the flesh.
I wasn’t wild about the Snowflake handset. Then I saw a Black Bezeled Tudor Black Bay Heritage 41mm in a Jewelry Store. I asked to try it on. The way the gilt hands captured the light captivated me. I bought it the next day. The symmetry of the dial and the hand set are awesome. I really like what Tudor is doing.
I have to confess. Having had a BB58 and now am FXD….it wasn’t the hands but the size of the case that made me move to something larger. The Snowflake hands are now embodied in the design DNA of the Tudor brand. Tudor has been going in the right direction and personally like it the handset.
I absolutely LOVE the Tudor snowflake hands. I think they're the best watch hands I've ever seen. The syringe hands of the Sinn 104 are a distant second.
I think BB54 has supreme legibility for its size PRECISELY because of the Snowflake contrast against the hour markers and it suits it perfectly. Its a nod towards the tool-ish origins of what is today a 'dressy diver'. I have no problems wearing it on a calfskin with my suit, or on bracelet to my clinic job or a NATO on weekends / hot weather. It is my most treasured watch and nothing that I've tried on comes close to the joy I get from the BB54 🤩
Like many, I didn't like them at first, but, it grew on me and I really like them now... On Tudor watches. I do believe they work best on the Pelagos with matching square hour indexes. Ok all the other models?.. I've grown to accept them paired with the submariner style dial. But, they will always look best on the Pelagos.. unless they change their other dials to better match... And, I don't know how I'd feel about it if they did?... It would likely dilute the Pelagos's distinction within the Tudor catalog if its other "siblings" got a facelift and started to look like it. I feel this video has served to re-focus my thoughts about if I were to get another Tudor, currently own the BB58 bronze, it would have to be a Pelagos of some sort. It all works within that specific model line.
Could the snow flake hands be improved??? Ie the hour marker is quite wide. What if the hands shape remained the same but their size was reduced just a bit so they remained functional, true to the Tudor heritage, but didn't take up so much dial space and stand out so much
I like it and its part of the identity of Tudor now. People really put a lot of energy in to disliking it... Just move on if you dislike it. But my something else. Very simple
I’ve grown to be a fan of the snowflake hand. I didn’t care for it at first but the more I get into the hobby the more I appreciate the history of these brands. Without that context it is a bit baffling to new customers. That said, my most worn Tudor is the Ranger. Nothing to do with the snowflake hand, just the comfort on my wrist and no fuss design that I feel comfortable wearing no matter the activity. Great video and happy holidays!! Can’t wait to see your Explorer 1 video in the new year 😁. I just joined that club this month also (but I got the 40mm) and look forward to hearing your take on the icon.
I liked the snowflake before, but I love it now. You're right, Tudor earned it and it theirs. I love consistency and Tudor is consistent. It's easy to read and, as I get a older, a no-brainer, in my opinion. Cheers 🥃
You nailed every point, and although I follow true_patina, I had missed that mod. I think it's to distinctly Tudor to give up. I don't think it works as well on the Black Bay chronographs, but otherwise I love it. If you see another watch with the handset (ahem, San Martin), you know it's a straight up rip off of Tudor.
Indifferent is the worst place to be! Honestly, True Patina's recreation would probably be my preference. I know I wont ever have a chance to own the vintage 22 or 24, so a recreation would be amazing. Someday's I just imagine looking down at my wrist and seeing that 24 on a NATO and get happy. Merry Christmas my brother! Joy and Peace to you in the New Year! Thank you for sharing your talent and passion with us. Always appreciated.
You are VERY good at what you do sir! Well written, well presented, and with interesting insights. "is this just Stockholm syndrome at this point?" - that made me laugh. Merry Christmas!
I'll admit this video was scripted in places (a few of the major talking points) BUT Stockholm Syndrome was off the cuff 😆 Clearly expressing how I really feel, right? Haha! Many thanks for this and have a fantastic Christmas and New Year! 🥃
I hated it for years! Then I saw the Harrods Black Bay in person and it changed for me. This has happened with other things in my life; sour beers and jazz immediately come to mind. Once I got it, I loved it. I’ve purchased 3 more Tudors since and admire many others. Thank you for making this video. It’s why I love this channel, these types of conversations are why watches are so much fun, and the community that has taken the time to comment on it is a group I’m proud to be a part of.
Great video brother, i hope you had a blessed holiday time. I actually like it, i own the Tudor Submariner 94400 and owned the Black Bay R smily, and loved the hands on the simple no date dial. On another dial with complications, i think I would not like it.
I dislike them. They feel less premium, like a cost cutting measure. Though they do dispel the theory that the sections of a Mercedes hour hand are needed to keep such a large chunk of lume in tact.
I respect the snowflake hand. It’s what I expect from Tudor. It’s synonymous with them and for that, I don’t mind at all. But…that ‘correct’ 54 is… very nice…
"The hand does get in the way of the harmony." That is a devastating observation. It is compelling because it is a judgment and not merely a reaction or expression of taste - it makes an argument. Because as any trained designer knows - and clearly you know - the alternative to visual "harmony" is visual chaos, and visual chaos does not require or display ability or incisive thought. It doesn't express anything at all. It's just a sequence of randomly selected parts bins, or the equivalent thereof. It's designing in a lightless room. Many years ago, I read a review in Rolling Stone that taught me a lot. The regular reviewers were asked to choose their favorite record albums of the previous 10 years and explain their choices. The review I remember was one sentence, a review of an album by the Ramones. It read: "I know it's stupid but it's my kind of stupid." And it taught me - there is all the difference in the world between what you like and what you respect. So, my question after all this is - one can like, or dislike, whatever one does, but should we respect the Tudor snowflake hand, or is respecting it merely a mistake - a lapse in judgment? BTW: "Stockholm syndrome." Very good.
The size of the vintage Tudor Sub’s hour hand is noticeably smaller than modern snowflake hands (BB36, BB58) and the visual impact is reduced. Tudor could tone it down a smidgen on some models. I think that would be a good change. Great topic IDGuy.
To answer your question - i really like it on the Pelagos.. and i feel a sense of "meh" on other watches... to be honest the only Tudor i would ever buy at the moment is the FXD.... P.s. man I'm finally appreciating Panerai.... didn't think i ever would tried on a few recently. Older models... they're huge and imposing but they just work. The 00560 looked amazing on my wrist
100% reccomend the FXD. When it is in the right environment I genuinely could not ask for a better watch for the job. They can also be found for bargains on the bay. AND Panerai! I've always had an obsession for a gilt 50's piece... they are something special 😉
Maybe it’s just that I’ve only been “in to watches” for a few years, but I think the snowflake is iconically Tutor. If you add a Mercedes hand it looks like a Rolex that, well, isn’t a Rolex. I think they should keep it.
I cannot bash the Tudor snowflake hands. After years of trying on numerous watches to seek the one watch that I would be proud to wear every day, I recently got the call. Now a Tudor adorns my wrist, and I am willing to divest all my other watches. Long live the snowflake hands.
Saw your email a few days ago and I always find replying via YT is far more efficient 😉 So stoked that you picked up a Tudor for yourself sir! Excited to see what it is - I'm just going to have to guess by looking at the box that it's a Tudor ;) Have a wonderful Christmas and New Year! 🥃
I love the snowflake hand. It gives character to the brand, it separates it from Rolex. I have BB36 smiley face, BB58 Blue and foe my 50th just picked up BB54. Great video.
I have a BB58 blue and very much like it. The snowflake hand is a unique Tudor design element, and I’m fine with it. However, I think it looks better when paired with square indices as in the Pelagos.
Great video and nice to see you in two minds of something for a change. At least the snowflake hand is truly Tudors' property whereas the Mercedes hand is older than the Rolex brand. Not their invention at all. Happy holidays to us all.
I think the snowflake hand is iconic. It looks better on some models than others, but I want to call out the BB54 for its slimmed down snowflake hand. I think this is the best rendition on a black bay.
Happy Holidays ID Guy. Good points and tough call. Somehow, the snow flake hands just make sense at many levels Being the less expensive brand than Rolex, Tudor cases are blockier, less refined. That continues throughout every watch component, the crown and in many cases the dial material and finishing. So the blocky hands make sense. The one exception are the chronos. Maybe skeletonized hands would work better on those models. How about one of your renderings on the subject?
The snowflake hand is the distinguishing feature of Tudor. The Mercedes Hand is copied far too often. But I have to say that the Pelagos Models with the Snowfalke Hand looks the best. ❄️
As a design professional, the snowflake hand makes me ill 👎. It should point through to the hour marker. It does not. The snowflake is a "visual stop bump" on the way to reading the hour marker. And NO, the Bauhaus would have used a better geometry that points, not the "visual stop bump" snowflake.
How cool were those 80's hands? But then I feel it would still look too much like Rolex. Wanted to include this as a segment in the video but felt it took the focus off the Snowflake hand 😉 Great point here brother!
Tudor equals snowflake. Simples. What is to dislike is the fact they replaced seconds hand with lollipop in some models. Come one, if you want a Rolex homage you buy idk Steinhart or something, for a fraction of the price. Tudor has it's own identity, people like it, no point in changing that.
If you don’t like the snowflake hands you can go with the Ranger. Would be interested in seeing what a Ranger would look like with a diving bezel might need smaller/compact dial or what the Ranger dial and hands would look like on a Black Bay. I love the hands and numbers on the Ranger I also like the snowflake hands. Instantly know it’s a Tudor.
I disliked the snow flake hand, but appreciate its originality. I think it’s just too big, and they need to shrink down the square block so it doesn’t overpower the rest of the dial.
Couldn't stop laughing when we just said French military, did they do the snowflake so the French could point it at the enemy and know what the opposite direction was to run. 🤯
ID Guy , thanks for enlightening us on the history of the snowflake hand on Tudor. I could see Tudor keeping it on its dive watch models, but it is out of place on the chronographs and GMT’s. Love to see syringe hands and also the use of lollipop circles on some models.
Prior to owning a Tudor I thought the snowflake hand was unnecessarily large and muddled the dial. Now that own two Tudors, I love the snowflake hand and can’t imagine a Tudor not having that handset.
I have a ‘Pagani Design PD-1671 V2’ and bought it because of its snowflake hand and the resemblance to a Tudor is amazing. Only the price is peanuts. 😊
WHen I got into watches and saw the snowflake… I hated it. I wanted to get a Tudor and wouldn’t, because of the snowflake. Now, further down the road… I really appreciate it and would be disappointed to see a tudor without it. So I guess as you say, they earned it, now they OWN it and it’s as tudor as it gets!
@@ID-Guy no worries. Your videos are my number one, and I watch many...too many general watch videos to be honest... that's a resolution for next year. Less UA-cam, but NEVER less IDGuy ! Have a good one man... May next year bring positive changes
Tudor's BB58 thin + long lugs and the snowflake hands are not proportionate with the rest of the watch and even its style. Rolex's Submariner and other models' text-heavy dials. Omega's Seamaster He escape valve crown. They've become signatures to those brands and their respective models, and technically have some practical value; however, they're neither necessary nor streamlined in its design. There's a good way to stand-out, and the way it's done on the aforementioned models is no good.
Did I hear you correctly when you said Canadian Navy? We have a navy? Ever since the debacle in San Diego when a Canadian ship was asked to leave port due to being drunk and disorderly, I'm not sure that constitutes having a navy ;)
When I started in this hobby, I couldn't stand the snowflake hand. It appeared unrefined and clunky. But, it had grown in me. I see it now as distinctive, and it represents Tudor.
Ok, point taken. Now, is putting the snowflake hand on a diet better. I feel like it’s just to prominent. Maybe if the shape can be reduced a few times. Like the reverse of the grinch’s hart. And rounding the end of the hand. I really don’t like the boxy-ness or the snowflake hand.
I am a fan of the Tudor snowflake hand set when they are used with a dial with square indice. Combined the snowflake with round indice, and I think there is a design element that does not mix well. I wish more watch companies would use square indice on their watch dials. For the round indice dials, I like a mercedes hand or sword handset for better symmetry.
How long did it take you to poll all 8 billion people in the world and determine that not a single person likes them? I must have been missed because I do like them.
A tudor without a snowflake hand loses identity, and identifiability (if such word exist). I don’t mind it. I also don’t mind the p3n1s 12 o’clock marker on the Speedmaster, however, you did damaged date complications for me…. Now I kind of dislike them, It breaks simmetry and that I can’t let go of…
Like many commenters, I think the snowflake is key to the brand identity. Simple as that. I have a BB58 blue and honestly I prefer the square pip on the seconds hand as well. The round pip on the 54 and new 41mm models is again, just not that special.
The biggest annoyance of the Tudor Pelagos is not the snowflake hand, but the lengthy 5 lines of text at the bottom. Most of that can go on the back, if it is truly needed. Regarding the so-called snowflake hand - which, let’s keep it real, looks nothing like a snowflake - I have come to, and I can hardly bring myself to admit this, like it. That said, I would leave the snowflake hand as is on the Pelagos but reduce the size of the square by 20% for the Black Bay. Great video, thanks!
True Patina’s Black Bay Video: ua-cam.com/video/mG1IxpEYJlM/v-deo.html
"Everybody" is of course a generalisation here, but I felt that "Most People" didn't have the same punch for the title, y'know?
What are your thoughts on Tudor’s Infamous Snowflake Hand? 🥃
The snowflake hand has stopped me buying a BB or Pelagos...but this video has made me think...aaarrhhh...you broke me!!!
What happened to your 3 hour videos, those where great 😢
Maybe there is a sound compromise which can be arrived at: The Pelagos series remains unchanged with only triangles and rectangles on dials and hands and the Black Bay line with the dials also unchanged, but sword hands (like the Rolex Submariner Ref. 5517 and the Ginault Ocean Rover / Ocean Rover II) instead of the snowflake designs. For the BB GMT, I suggest a 24-hour hand like the Rolex GMT-Master (II), but with the triangle a bit longer to make it more distinguishable from the dots on the dial in low light conditions. It would still fit the Tudor heritage, but easily be distinguishable from Rolex and at the same time look so much better - at least for my personal taste.
I personally love the snowflake hand. I think its one of the things that makes a Tudor a Tudor.
The snowflake is part of the brand identity and a distinguisher. It immedietely identifies the watch's brand as Tudor- and that is an invaluable in marketing. I like it - and like many probably find it a aesthetic selling point.
I agree and disagree... It's absolutely a brand identifier that immediately screams "Tudor".
But that's a good thing if it's generally liked - when it's divisive, I guess the question is whether it distinguishes the watch enough to make the fans buy and generate brand exposure as a talking point (as we're doing here!)... Or whether it puts off enough potential buyers that it's a net negative.
Obviously the brand is doing fine, so if it IS a net negative, they're doing enough right to offset it.
I can't help but feel it looks a bit clunky... Everything else on a Black Bay is bang on point for me, but that almost makes the clunkiness of the hour hand more eyecatching in a disappointing way.
Watching a few vids like this to see if I can be converted to it, but it's just not quite happening.
i love the snowflake hand
I especially love the kinda oversized snowflake hand on the now discontinued BB 36. The new BB 36 just doesn’t feel right
We all know it’s ugly, but we pretend that we love it, because it’s Tudor.
Same. And a 100x more aesthetic than the awful Mercedes-hands…
I dislike the snowflake hour hand intensely. It ruins an otherwise attractive dial.
@@cliffwheeler7357that's just, uh... Your opinion, man
You are totally right about the snowflake needing the boxed markers as seen in the Pelagos. If you’re gonna go quirky, you gotta unify it design-wise across the watch. The Pelagos achieves that in large part thanks to the markers.
The Pelegos square indicators do not work for me. The snowflake hand is fine balanced by all the circular shapes inherent to a wrist watch, including the indicators on the black bay(s). But all those square indicators on the Pelegos look forced. As the snowflake hand moves around it creates strange and unpleasing angles against the Pelegos indicators.
Agree the FXD is the perfect implementation of the snowflake hand.
I always thought the snowflake hand looked like a snake swallowing a Lego, but it works on the Pelagos.
Ah man! Just reminded me of that Snake game on Nokia phones... I'm sure the animation looked like that? Brilliant 😆
Your ability to understand and articulate nuance and identity is second to none.
Articulate identity?
The snowflake is awesome and I love tudors for being true to them. People only moan because they want Mercedes hand sets.
Merry Christmas pal 👍
Merry Christmas to you Adrian and thank you! Really interesting when we think about Function vs Aesthetics and where they meet 🥃
Thank you for highlighting True Patina’s excellent work. I bought Blackbays 4 times this is year so I guess I dont personally have any issues with the snowflake hand. However, I’ve always wondered how these Tudor watches would look like without them. Now I know that it wont make them look better. Like you said, the watch actually lost a bit of its character without the oft criticized hand shape.
It’s true, the Snowflake handset is at home on the Pelagos. The matching squared indices go perfectly with the handset. Saying that, I’m wearing my P01 right now and with round indices even, the Snowflake handset just looks beautiful. It’s SO Tudor. Their signature. I love them!
The only Watch they were a bit out of place on was the Alinghi Red Bull FXD Chronograph that I tried on. They still looked great on the Watch but, cluttered the reading of the Chronographs sub registers at times. I guess Mercedes hands do the same on the small dial of a Daytona though? It’s all down to whether you like the aesthetic of the Watch I guess?
Great topic here boet. Have a wonderful Christmas 🎄 and may 2024 see you creating yet more awesome content for us to enjoy and think about. ✊
I hated it becauze it was different from what I was used to. I love it now. Thank you Tudor, for staying the course!
But please!!! Do something a little different for the chronographs! The snowflake too often covers the sub dials!
Put put me in the camp that dislikes both snowflake and Mercedes hands. Great video. As I reach for my Invicta 1953…..😅
I have and enjoy the BB Pro. I have a little list of ways it could be improved (looking at you, faux rivets), but I have zero issue with the snowflake hand! It has become iconic for Tudor
Rivet bracelets man... nicely said Dave, thank you! 🥃
Without those hands, they just look like every other sports watch on the market.
Wholeheartedly agree it should on the Pelagos and the Pelagos only. While there are some attractive and fun Tudors that I’d be interested in trying(LHD),I’ve ultimately moved on from the brand. It became a filler brand or place holder for me till I grew as a watch lover and amateur collector. For me, Tudor was a “rite of passage” watch. Merry Christmas dude! Looking forward to your “predictions” content.
Nicely said man, it's almost a natural progression experiencing Tudor and then moving on to other pieces. My FXD is THE watch for the job. brilliant machine as a tool watch but the Black Bay? Doesn't really tick all the boxes for me... they do feel like "rite of passage" pieces 😉 Have an excellent Christmas and New Year man! Also looking forward to busting out the designs again for early next year 🔥
I liked both comments, even though I disagree with them. Or at least at some point.
Pelagos doesn't speak to me at all, maybe except the last iteration.
The first Pelagos watches are too much of a tool watch for my requirements (at this price point).
Yet BB fits perfectly, especially in smaller sizes. I guess it depends on a personal preferences and taste.
Therefore, I don't see any “rite passage” thing in it - which would suggest that these are watches for people who don't quite know what is good and what is not, and when they eventually realise it, they exchange Tudor for something else. At least as long as we are speaking about Tudor price shelf.
However, it’s a good thing that these collections provoke discussions, that is the proof the brand is developing, and people are really into it.
This video is a prime example of why IDGuy is my favorite watch-content channel.
Great video and analysis. Personally I love the complete snowflake scheme including the square markers and sec hand. For the BB, I would prefer a stick hour hand like the one Tudor made for "Only Watch"
As usual a thought-provoking video.For me the shield logo is as divisive.
Bring back the rose!
Thanks for your outstanding content over the last year.
I love the snow flake hand. I even love how it's called 'snow flake'. It's perfect.
I'm trying to find a way to say that "I prefer the Butt-Plug hand on the Tudor Ranger "in a way that doesn't sound wrong. But clearly I can't.
I disliked snowflake hands on pictures, and thought I would dislike in the flesh... till I owned a Tudor. And now I love it. You gotta experience it in the flesh.
best wishes for the season, and please keep this first rate content coming ! Thanks.
I wasn’t wild about the Snowflake handset. Then I saw a Black Bezeled Tudor Black Bay Heritage 41mm in a Jewelry Store.
I asked to try it on. The way the gilt hands captured the light captivated me.
I bought it the next day. The symmetry of the dial and the hand set are awesome.
I really like what Tudor is doing.
I have to confess. Having had a BB58 and now am FXD….it wasn’t the hands but the size of the case that made me move to something larger. The Snowflake hands are now embodied in the design DNA of the Tudor brand. Tudor has been going in the right direction and personally like it the handset.
Vive la France
I cannot imagine my BB58 without that snowflake...I love it 🥃
Hope you're having an excellent break Pete! 🥃
@@ID-Guy just managed to wind down from work for the end of the year...enjoy your break and stay safe
Omega has the Helium escape valve
Rolex has the Cyclops
Tudor has the Snowflake
It is what it is , long live the Snowflake
Well said Ian. All polarising features that turn people away from the pieces but also makes them distinct 🥃
Thankfully not all Rolex’s have a Cyclops 😂
May I add Grand Seiko with their power reserve indicator at 8 o'clock.
Omegas HE Valve is basically a risk of water ingress.
You have to touch it only to check it is closed.
@@checksix_TC That’s the worse one lol.
Thankfully they hide it on the back these days.
The snowflake hand is Tudor's identity but I think in some models hand's should be thinner, more elegant.
It would be utterly foolish to jettison the most iconic image of the Tudor brand
I absolutely LOVE the Tudor snowflake hands. I think they're the best watch hands I've ever seen. The syringe hands of the Sinn 104 are a distant second.
I think BB54 has supreme legibility for its size PRECISELY because of the Snowflake contrast against the hour markers and it suits it perfectly. Its a nod towards the tool-ish origins of what is today a 'dressy diver'. I have no problems wearing it on a calfskin with my suit, or on bracelet to my clinic job or a NATO on weekends / hot weather. It is my most treasured watch and nothing that I've tried on comes close to the joy I get from the BB54 🤩
Very well said, sir!
Like many, I didn't like them at first, but, it grew on me and I really like them now... On Tudor watches.
I do believe they work best on the Pelagos with matching square hour indexes. Ok all the other models?.. I've grown to accept them paired with the submariner style dial. But, they will always look best on the Pelagos.. unless they change their other dials to better match... And, I don't know how I'd feel about it if they did?... It would likely dilute the Pelagos's distinction within the Tudor catalog if its other "siblings" got a facelift and started to look like it.
I feel this video has served to re-focus my thoughts about if I were to get another Tudor, currently own the BB58 bronze, it would have to be a Pelagos of some sort. It all works within that specific model line.
The snowflake hand has always reminded me of a “T” that is representative of the T in Tudor.
Reintroduce the lollipop hour hand for anything other than the diver’s watch.. both are Tudor design history.. nice work as usual..regards.
Could the snow flake hands be improved??? Ie the hour marker is quite wide. What if the hands shape remained the same but their size was reduced just a bit so they remained functional, true to the Tudor heritage, but didn't take up so much dial space and stand out so much
I like it and its part of the identity of Tudor now. People really put a lot of energy in to disliking it... Just move on if you dislike it. But my something else. Very simple
I’ve grown to be a fan of the snowflake hand. I didn’t care for it at first but the more I get into the hobby the more I appreciate the history of these brands. Without that context it is a bit baffling to new customers.
That said, my most worn Tudor is the Ranger. Nothing to do with the snowflake hand, just the comfort on my wrist and no fuss design that I feel comfortable wearing no matter the activity.
Great video and happy holidays!! Can’t wait to see your Explorer 1 video in the new year 😁. I just joined that club this month also (but I got the 40mm) and look forward to hearing your take on the icon.
I liked the snowflake before, but I love it now. You're right, Tudor earned it and it theirs. I love consistency and Tudor is consistent. It's easy to read and, as I get a older, a no-brainer, in my opinion. Cheers 🥃
the funny thing is, Rolex' Mercedes Hands are old-fashioned!!.. They should really do something..
You nailed every point, and although I follow true_patina, I had missed that mod. I think it's to distinctly Tudor to give up. I don't think it works as well on the Black Bay chronographs, but otherwise I love it. If you see another watch with the handset (ahem, San Martin), you know it's a straight up rip off of Tudor.
Indifferent is the worst place to be! Honestly, True Patina's recreation would probably be my preference. I know I wont ever have a chance to own the vintage 22 or 24, so a recreation would be amazing. Someday's I just imagine looking down at my wrist and seeing that 24 on a NATO and get happy. Merry Christmas my brother! Joy and Peace to you in the New Year! Thank you for sharing your talent and passion with us. Always appreciated.
You are VERY good at what you do sir! Well written, well presented, and with interesting insights. "is this just Stockholm syndrome at this point?" - that made me laugh. Merry Christmas!
I'll admit this video was scripted in places (a few of the major talking points) BUT Stockholm Syndrome was off the cuff 😆 Clearly expressing how I really feel, right? Haha! Many thanks for this and have a fantastic Christmas and New Year! 🥃
It’s the snowflake that makes reading the time so easy. And I happen to like it too.
I hated it for years! Then I saw the Harrods Black Bay in person and it changed for me. This has happened with other things in my life; sour beers and jazz immediately come to mind. Once I got it, I loved it. I’ve purchased 3 more Tudors since and admire many others.
Thank you for making this video. It’s why I love this channel, these types of conversations are why watches are so much fun, and the community that has taken the time to comment on it is a group I’m proud to be a part of.
Great video brother, i hope you had a blessed holiday time. I actually like it, i own the Tudor Submariner 94400 and owned the Black Bay R smily, and loved the hands on the simple no date dial. On another dial with complications, i think I would not like it.
I dislike them. They feel less premium, like a cost cutting measure. Though they do dispel the theory that the sections of a Mercedes hour hand are needed to keep such a large chunk of lume in tact.
I respect the snowflake hand. It’s what I expect from Tudor. It’s synonymous with them and for that, I don’t mind at all.
But…that ‘correct’ 54 is… very nice…
"The hand does get in the way of the harmony." That is a devastating observation. It is compelling because it is a judgment and not merely a reaction or expression of taste - it makes an argument. Because as any trained designer knows - and clearly you know - the alternative to visual "harmony" is visual chaos, and visual chaos does not require or display ability or incisive thought. It doesn't express anything at all. It's just a sequence of randomly selected parts bins, or the equivalent thereof. It's designing in a lightless room.
Many years ago, I read a review in Rolling Stone that taught me a lot. The regular reviewers were asked to choose their favorite record albums of the previous 10 years and explain their choices. The review I remember was one sentence, a review of an album by the Ramones. It read: "I know it's stupid but it's my kind of stupid." And it taught me - there is all the difference in the world between what you like and what you respect. So, my question after all this is - one can like, or dislike, whatever one does, but should we respect the Tudor snowflake hand, or is respecting it merely a mistake - a lapse in judgment?
BTW: "Stockholm syndrome." Very good.
Not for or against it. Tudor makes great watches but i never want to pull the trigger on one. Have a good Christmas and healthy 2024.
The size of the vintage Tudor Sub’s hour hand is noticeably smaller than modern snowflake hands (BB36, BB58) and the visual impact is reduced. Tudor could tone it down a smidgen on some models. I think that would be a good change. Great topic IDGuy.
Especially on the chronographs.
Ill take snowflake hands over the mercedes hands anyday. Merry X'mas and keep up the great content!
And a Merry Christmas to you sir! Thank you! 🥃
To answer your question - i really like it on the Pelagos.. and i feel a sense of "meh" on other watches... to be honest the only Tudor i would ever buy at the moment is the FXD....
P.s. man I'm finally appreciating Panerai.... didn't think i ever would tried on a few recently. Older models... they're huge and imposing but they just work. The 00560 looked amazing on my wrist
100% reccomend the FXD. When it is in the right environment I genuinely could not ask for a better watch for the job. They can also be found for bargains on the bay. AND Panerai! I've always had an obsession for a gilt 50's piece... they are something special 😉
Maybe it’s just that I’ve only been “in to watches” for a few years, but I think the snowflake is iconically Tutor. If you add a Mercedes hand it looks like a Rolex that, well, isn’t a Rolex. I think they should keep it.
I cannot bash the Tudor snowflake hands. After years of trying on numerous watches to seek the one watch that I would be proud to wear every day, I recently got the call. Now a Tudor adorns my wrist, and I am willing to divest all my other watches. Long live the snowflake hands.
Saw your email a few days ago and I always find replying via YT is far more efficient 😉 So stoked that you picked up a Tudor for yourself sir! Excited to see what it is - I'm just going to have to guess by looking at the box that it's a Tudor ;) Have a wonderful Christmas and New Year! 🥃
@@ID-Guy I have acquired the Pelagos 39. It ticked every mark I have searched for.
You nailed it; I loathed the snowflake hand. And now, knowing its function, I have to rethink it. Thanks
I love the snowflake hand. It gives character to the brand, it separates it from Rolex. I have BB36 smiley face, BB58 Blue and foe my 50th just picked up BB54. Great video.
I have a BB58 blue and very much like it. The snowflake hand is a unique Tudor design element, and I’m fine with it. However, I think it looks better when paired with square indices as in the Pelagos.
Great video and nice to see you in two minds of something for a change. At least the snowflake hand is truly Tudors' property whereas the Mercedes hand is older than the Rolex brand. Not their invention at all. Happy holidays to us all.
I think the snowflake hand is iconic. It looks better on some models than others, but I want to call out the BB54 for its slimmed down snowflake hand. I think this is the best rendition on a black bay.
Happy Holidays ID Guy. Good points and tough call. Somehow, the snow flake hands just make sense at many levels
Being the less expensive brand than Rolex, Tudor cases are blockier, less refined. That continues throughout every watch component, the crown and in many cases the dial material and finishing. So the blocky hands make sense. The one exception are the chronos. Maybe skeletonized hands would work better on those models. How about one of your renderings on the subject?
The snowflake hand is the distinguishing feature of Tudor. The Mercedes Hand is copied far too often. But I have to say that the Pelagos Models with the Snowfalke Hand looks the best. ❄️
I really enjoy seeing that side-by-side of Rolex's Merc and Tudor's Snowflake hand. Instant recognisability is the name of the game today 🥃
@@ID-Guy 💯!
The Mercedes Hand just doesn't fit Tudor anymore! Tudor has become an independent brand over the years.
As a design professional, the snowflake hand makes me ill 👎. It should point through to the hour marker. It does not. The snowflake is a "visual stop bump" on the way to reading the hour marker. And NO, the Bauhaus would have used a better geometry that points, not the "visual stop bump" snowflake.
Bring back the lollipop 76100 dial and hands for the Black Bay! I agree, keep the snowflake for the Pelagos line.
How cool were those 80's hands? But then I feel it would still look too much like Rolex. Wanted to include this as a segment in the video but felt it took the focus off the Snowflake hand 😉 Great point here brother!
Tudor equals snowflake. Simples. What is to dislike is the fact they replaced seconds hand with lollipop in some models. Come one, if you want a Rolex homage you buy idk Steinhart or something, for a fraction of the price. Tudor has it's own identity, people like it, no point in changing that.
I wish they put it on the minutes hand as well. Love it.
If you don’t like the snowflake hands you can go with the Ranger. Would be interested in seeing what a Ranger would look like with a diving bezel might need smaller/compact dial or what the Ranger dial and hands would look like on a Black Bay. I love the hands and numbers on the Ranger I also like the snowflake hands. Instantly know it’s a Tudor.
Snowflake hand is why I love Tudor
My unpopular opinion is that the "hybrid" dial and handset looks better than the full snowflake combination.
I like the snowflake hand. But I guess once you see something a certain way you can’t unsee it.
I disliked the snow flake hand, but appreciate its originality. I think it’s just too big, and they need to shrink down the square block so it doesn’t overpower the rest of the dial.
Couldn't stop laughing when we just said French military, did they do the snowflake so the French could point it at the enemy and know what the opposite direction was to run. 🤯
ID Guy , thanks for enlightening us on the history of the snowflake hand on Tudor. I could see Tudor keeping it on its dive watch models, but it is out of place on the chronographs and GMT’s. Love to see syringe hands and also the use of lollipop circles on some models.
Who is Bruce?
@@michaelriera6277Oops, my bad. The host is not Bruce so I will make the change.
Your videos always have incredibly powerful insight. Happy holidays.
Spot on video!
Love the snowflake hand. It is theirs.
I actually love the snowflake hand. That’s the main reason I have three Tudor watches
Prior to owning a Tudor I thought the snowflake hand was unnecessarily large and muddled the dial. Now that own two Tudors, I love the snowflake hand and can’t imagine a Tudor not having that handset.
I have a ‘Pagani Design PD-1671 V2’ and bought it because of its snowflake hand and the resemblance to a Tudor is amazing. Only the price is peanuts. 😊
WHen I got into watches and saw the snowflake… I hated it. I wanted to get a Tudor and wouldn’t, because of the snowflake. Now, further down the road… I really appreciate it and would be disappointed to see a tudor without it. So I guess as you say, they earned it, now they OWN it and it’s as tudor as it gets!
I like the snowflake hand. However, I also agree that it may be simply belong on the Pelagos alone.
I own a bb 41 burgundy. The snowflake hour hand is easy to read when the minute hand is over it. But having the lollipop seconds hand is lovely too.
Merry Christmas man. Hope you have an atmospheric one ❄️ ❄️ ❄️
And to you Valera! Thank you for you input on every video and I really hope your IWC returns quickly! Have a super few weeks away 😉🥃
@@ID-Guy no worries. Your videos are my number one, and I watch many...too many general watch videos to be honest... that's a resolution for next year. Less UA-cam, but NEVER less IDGuy ! Have a good one man... May next year bring positive changes
Twelve o’cock ! ROFL! I’ve never heard that. And I’m going to get a lot of mileage out of that one! 😅
Rolex will start printing their entire instruction booklet on their dials next year 😂😂
Tudor's BB58 thin + long lugs and the snowflake hands are not proportionate with the rest of the watch and even its style. Rolex's Submariner and other models' text-heavy dials. Omega's Seamaster He escape valve crown. They've become signatures to those brands and their respective models, and technically have some practical value; however, they're neither necessary nor streamlined in its design. There's a good way to stand-out, and the way it's done on the aforementioned models is no good.
Did I hear you correctly when you said Canadian Navy? We have a navy? Ever since the debacle in San Diego when a Canadian ship was asked to leave port due to being drunk and disorderly, I'm not sure that constitutes having a navy ;)
@@IDKline Haha! Now that's funny! lol
This made me chuckle 😆 Thanks Dave! 🥃
😆@@ID-Guy
When I started in this hobby, I couldn't stand the snowflake hand. It appeared unrefined and clunky. But, it had grown in me. I see it now as distinctive, and it represents Tudor.
Ok, point taken. Now, is putting the snowflake hand on a diet better. I feel like it’s just to prominent. Maybe if the shape can be reduced a few times. Like the reverse of the grinch’s hart. And rounding the end of the hand. I really don’t like the boxy-ness or the snowflake hand.
I am a fan of the Tudor snowflake hand set when they are used with a dial with square indice. Combined the snowflake with round indice, and I think there is a design element that does not mix well. I wish more watch companies would use square indice on their watch dials. For the round indice dials, I like a mercedes hand or sword handset for better symmetry.
How long did it take you to poll all 8 billion people in the world and determine that not a single person likes them? I must have been missed because I do like them.
A tudor without a snowflake hand loses identity, and identifiability (if such word exist). I don’t mind it. I also don’t mind the p3n1s 12 o’clock marker on the Speedmaster, however, you did damaged date complications for me…. Now I kind of dislike them, It breaks simmetry and that I can’t let go of…
Great video again . I really want that bb54 would love one jubilee
On a basic model, snowflake is ok, in fact it makes it more visible under low light. However, on a chronograph, snowflake hands dont make any sense
I'm a fan of the snowflake hands on a Tudor. If I had to disagree on any Tudor hand, it would be that cartoony Ranger shovel hand.
Do I like the snowflake hands ? Heck, yes; and on the GMT ... all three of them !
Crazy how they've managed to squeeze three snowflakes onto one dial, right? Actually looks a lot more focused in a way 🥃
Sword hands would go really nicely with the Tudor shield.
It seems like brands are just afraid to ever put Sword hands on their dials... it's like a Swiss curse or something 😆🥃
Like many commenters, I think the snowflake is key to the brand identity. Simple as that. I have a BB58 blue and honestly I prefer the square pip on the seconds hand as well. The round pip on the 54 and new 41mm models is again, just not that special.
The biggest annoyance of the Tudor Pelagos is not the snowflake hand, but the lengthy 5 lines of text at the bottom. Most of that can go on the back, if it is truly needed. Regarding the so-called snowflake hand - which, let’s keep it real, looks nothing like a snowflake - I have come to, and I can hardly bring myself to admit this, like it. That said, I would leave the snowflake hand as is on the Pelagos but reduce the size of the square by 20% for the Black Bay. Great video, thanks!
I don’t mind the snowflake hand when it’s paired with square hour markers. I don’t like it paired with circular markers, it’s a mismatch
Absolutely ,only works on the wafer hour plots
Honestly the snowflake hand has grown on me over time. Spot on about it matching the square indices on the pelagos more though.
Merc hand , circle plots. Snowflake hand , square plots. I adore my Pelagos , even more than its older siblings in the collection.
I would own more Tudors if it weren't for the snowflake hand. I agree it works with the Pelagos but I don't like it on any of the others.