I'm just having fun imagining what could have been. Including Congress approving one of the design, assuredly giving Tillman a stroke and bankrupting Imperial Japan as the latter attempt to build a counter.
I have read about these in "US Battleships: An Illustrated Design History" and I understand Sen. Tillman's position. Each year they Navy comes in with an incrementally larger battleship. He asks "Okay - instead of a little bit at a time, what is the biggest we can do? And let's perhaps go there now." In other words - cut to the chase. Edit: I am rereading that book as my "read before bed" book.
Thanks for this, fascinating. I am reminded of the two British battleships that had all their main armament in front of the bridge, namely the Nelson and Rodney. When asked why the admiralty had approved the unusual design, the response was “British ships are not designed for running away”.
Its too bad they didn't come up with the german "turtle armor" and integrated that design into the 1000 foot bb. That armor design would make these ships invincible.
These ships were actually within the industrial and technological capabilities of the US at the time these ships would have been built. The first slip for these ships would not have become available until the launch of the first large scout cruisers, which would have been 1923. There were SIX slips in the US, both government and commercial, which could handle these ships. The 18in prototype gun was in hand in 1921-22 but were scrapped or converted to the 16in Mk.IV by 1923. The turbo-electric machinery (180,000 nominal shp, 220,000 demonstrated at trials) was also already designed and being manufactured for the large scout cruisers. The main limit, other than the Panama Canal, was the thickness of cemented armor. At this time, the USN believed that 13.5" thick plates were the best US steel producers could produce with consistent high quality. Each additional inch was assumed to only add .9 inches to the thickness. It should be remembered that a "fast" battleship for the USN was 23 kts. Consider that in 1922, the US had FOURTEEN capital ships building, for a total of over 550,000 long tons. Which means that there was sufficient steel and armor produced by the US from 1919 to 1922 to build nine such capital ships from 1923 to 1928. It was entirely possible to build these ships, the question was whether it made strategic and doctrinal sense, much more, that whether Congress would have funded such ships. But keep in mind the operative words in Sen. Tillman's question were "COULD BUILD". The later studies were of the maximum battleships that the Japanese could build when they withdrew from the Treaty system in December 1934, not what the USN was looking at building. Also, none of these studies featured hull casemates for the secondary armor. Using a flush deck with high freeboard and the secondary battery mounted in casemates in the superstructure ON THE WEATHERDECK was a USN design feature from the "Tennessee" class on, due to experience with hull mounted casemates in bad weather in the North Atlantic during WW1.
I like the Tillman 3 design, it's scary how this designs characteristics took bits a pieces from the Iowa and Montana designs and combined them almost 20 or so years before the ships ever hot the water. It was fast like the Iowas (abliet slower at 30 knots) -It had the Montanas firepower. -It had 332mm of belt armor which was lower than the Montanas but higher than the Iowas. And its strange how the Tillman class would introduce these ideas into the U.S navy shipbuilding that result in some eventually becoming the real steal ships.
Always fascinating stories about the Tillman Battleships. Which IF they were actually authorized and built, would have made the various naval treaties interesting
I love that Tillman I is almost a more heavily armored Montana in 1916 (also of course the sextuple turrets of the next one is also something to behold)
If any or all of them were built and given a ww2 refit, those Tillmans will make Texas look tame in terms of AA City type of levels of how much the Navy wants enemy planes begone.
Wg did say they were Tillman inspired however what we have ingame are the hypothetical evolution of the standard type battleship with a post pearl harbor refit.
I am wondering if they would add this kind of battle ship to war thunder as NB battle ship. Not played the game, so I don't know if it has ever been used before.
Tillman is like the robber in Inside Man. To paraphrase, why build such huge battleships? Simply because I can. In the end, the US couldn’t. Still can’t beat the Earth Battleship Uchuu Senkan Yamato and its Wave Motion Gun!
Congress? You mean “they fought the navy” against constructing larger warships??? You actually forgot to end the argument by saying: “... because the fools in congress didn't knew how to grab $$$ from the endeavor, as they were ignorant fools from humble states (back then)” Yesterday was an example of how horrible politics and bureaucracy has become, and I am sure back then after the war they were as corrupt as they are now but only limited by their “means”. Not better back then... and there is no nation in the world which can claim to be different.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm just having fun imagining what could have been. Including Congress approving one of the design, assuredly giving Tillman a stroke and bankrupting Imperial Japan as the latter attempt to build a counter.
Another story I never heard of before. Love it.
Thanks for an informative video on a little known battleship.Merry Christmas 🎄and Happy holidays.
Thanks for the knowledge, Skynea. Take care.
Very good video.
I have read about these in "US Battleships: An Illustrated Design History" and I understand Sen. Tillman's position. Each year they Navy comes in with an incrementally larger battleship. He asks "Okay - instead of a little bit at a time, what is the biggest we can do? And let's perhaps go there now." In other words - cut to the chase.
Edit: I am rereading that book as my "read before bed" book.
I keep forgetting these were an idea at some point.
Thanks for this, fascinating. I am reminded of the two British battleships that had all their main armament in front of the bridge, namely the Nelson and Rodney. When asked why the admiralty had approved the unusual design, the response was “British ships are not designed for running away”.
Its too bad they didn't come up with the german "turtle armor" and integrated that design into the 1000 foot bb.
That armor design would make these ships invincible.
These ships were actually within the industrial and technological capabilities of the US at the time these ships would have been built. The first slip for these ships would not have become available until the launch of the first large scout cruisers, which would have been 1923. There were SIX slips in the US, both government and commercial, which could handle these ships. The 18in prototype gun was in hand in 1921-22 but were scrapped or converted to the 16in Mk.IV by 1923. The turbo-electric machinery (180,000 nominal shp, 220,000 demonstrated at trials) was also already designed and being manufactured for the large scout cruisers. The main limit, other than the Panama Canal, was the thickness of cemented armor. At this time, the USN believed that 13.5" thick plates were the best US steel producers could produce with consistent high quality. Each additional inch was assumed to only add .9 inches to the thickness. It should be remembered that a "fast" battleship for the USN was 23 kts. Consider that in 1922, the US had FOURTEEN capital ships building, for a total of over 550,000 long tons. Which means that there was sufficient steel and armor produced by the US from 1919 to 1922 to build nine such capital ships from 1923 to 1928. It was entirely possible to build these ships, the question was whether it made strategic and doctrinal sense, much more, that whether Congress would have funded such ships. But keep in mind the operative words in Sen. Tillman's question were "COULD BUILD".
The later studies were of the maximum battleships that the Japanese could build when they withdrew from the Treaty system in December 1934, not what the USN was looking at building.
Also, none of these studies featured hull casemates for the secondary armor. Using a flush deck with high freeboard and the secondary battery mounted in casemates in the superstructure ON THE WEATHERDECK was a USN design feature from the "Tennessee" class on, due to experience with hull mounted casemates in bad weather in the North Atlantic during WW1.
Dont forget the proposed H Class Hyper Battleships of German Kriegsmarine
I like the Tillman 3 design, it's scary how this designs characteristics took bits a pieces from the Iowa and Montana designs and combined them almost 20 or so years before the ships ever hot the water.
It was fast like the Iowas (abliet slower at 30 knots)
-It had the Montanas firepower.
-It had 332mm of belt armor which was lower than the Montanas but higher than the Iowas.
And its strange how the Tillman class would introduce these ideas into the U.S navy shipbuilding that result in some eventually becoming the real steal ships.
Always fascinating stories about the Tillman Battleships. Which IF they were actually authorized and built, would have made the various naval treaties interesting
“In 1918 he did everybody a favour and died“ (Drachinifel) 😆
I love that Tillman I is almost a more heavily armored Montana in 1916 (also of course the sextuple turrets of the next one is also something to behold)
If any or all of them were built and given a ww2 refit, those Tillmans will make Texas look tame in terms of AA City type of levels of how much the Navy wants enemy planes begone.
Isn't the Vermont in WoWs based on one of the Tillman designs?
Wg did say they were Tillman inspired however what we have ingame are the hypothetical evolution of the standard type battleship with a post pearl harbor refit.
I am wondering if they would add this kind of battle ship to war thunder as NB battle ship. Not played the game, so I don't know if it has ever been used before.
I wonder which would win between Tillman BB and both Yamato and Musashi
these ships could of been renamed TITAN's
Tillman was a garbage human being, these fantasy ship studies might be his only admirable accomplishment.
Thanks for posting!
Tillman is like the robber in Inside Man. To paraphrase, why build such huge battleships? Simply because I can. In the end, the US couldn’t.
Still can’t beat the Earth Battleship Uchuu Senkan Yamato and its Wave Motion Gun!
👍🏻🏴
4:20 - Politicians criminally ignorant of what progress actually means? Say it ain't so! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
That Senator Tilman was a piece of work really. Basically as racist as you could get in the gilded age.
"Pitchfork Ben"
Congress?
You mean “they fought the navy” against constructing larger warships???
You actually forgot to end the argument by saying:
“... because the fools in congress didn't knew how to grab $$$ from the endeavor, as they were ignorant fools from humble states (back then)”
Yesterday was an example of how horrible politics and bureaucracy has become, and I am sure back then after the war they were as corrupt as they are now but only limited by their “means”.
Not better back then... and there is no nation in the world which can claim to be different.