At first when we saw Messer I thought that he would be rykard pre eaten xD I still find it kind of lacking that we didn’t end up getting any other of the known Demi gods as bosses and we didn’t even fight oke for miquella because he was already a full god at that time I think AND he basically just hangs on radahns back and fucks us up with light magic ala prince Lothric style. Maybe it would be cool do see Godwynn or the gloam eyes queen or something like that but I think this will just be the future after the ending and the dlc is still before we get one ending in the timeline so yeah. Maybe in Elden ring 2
Also the fact that the snake is the symbol of the Undead since it represents their gluttony to consume the souls of beings greater than themselves. It very much fits with the themes of conquest shown by Messmer
@omerozel4716 I had no idea it existed (those freaking Mausoleum Knights never dropped it), but still, I feel like this is a more evident reference, given the firey edge of the eye socket. The greatshield feels like a reference to Berserk, given the importance of the Eclipse in both the manga and this game.
man i love the little shakiness/trembling in his voice when he goes "wilt thou be taken in the jaws of the abyssal serpent" the voice actor has done a phenomenal job
@@Ray_diant it's probably because thats not something Messmer wants to way, It was probably a command, the mask he had to take as the impaler for Marika
That one serpent is a little funny to me. As far as I could tell, it did not seem directly connected to him like the others, instead just hanging out on the ceiling. I wonder if it came out of him at some point, like the other 'serpent nest' comment suggests.
Makes sense. The Crucible is already associated with reptiles and snakes, and now one of her children is spontaneously generating heretical things that she's trying to bury, so she shoves a seal to suppress them into his head and ships him off to The Land Of Shadow for a revenge psi-op. Dude was both powerful and bad for the optics for her reign.
Messmer was probably her first child and he was cursed by something that was worshipped by those she hated. She reacted less poorly to her last two cursed children even though one of them was the potential vessel of an Outer God.
Or maybe she was scared for him, not of him. Remember what happened when Black Knight commander Andreas learned about Messmer's serpentine nature? He rebelled against him. Imagine what Erdtree elite would have done to Messmer if they knew he is a Base Serpent.
@@ZeroOmega-vg8nqhe WHAT?! I was far too concerned with chopping at his tail with my anti-dragon katana to get a good look. Either that or getting rammed into the area walls
@@kirbyis4ever bayle is how we finally have confirmation that he was why placidusaax lost his 2 heads. my guess. placi did the kind ghidorah bite attack then bayle used his messed up bone wing to cut them
I wonder if Messmer is like a snake nest, "birthing" serpents who chew their way out. His two snakes (or one two-headed snake) seem to be a separate entity from the abyssal serpent Messmer is turning into, and this thing in his eye looks like a nest full of baby snakes. Creepy af
The winged serpent serves to hold back the base serpent according to the winged serpent helm. Honestly it puts a whole different view on Rykard's serpent cult because the manor's old inhabitants seemed to worship the winged serpent, it's even backed by the fact the helm apparently also nerfs Messmer in phase 2
@@thecommentguy9380 Oh that's an interesting detail! I did notice the winged serpent gargoyles and filigree in the churches in the Shadowkeep Church District. Now I'm gonna go to the Volcano manor and check their decorations and compare. Another interesting to note is that there two Virgin Abductors near one of the castles, where they seem to be killing deserters. So either precursor to Rykard using them, or Rykard was aware and provided Messmer with some of his Abductors in the Shadow war campaign.
@@Elementroar as far as we know, Marika actively kept the shadow land and Messmer a secret. So these were probably troops she requisitioned to reinforce her son's forces, and even creates elixirs herself to help heal her son until probably the day she shattered the Elden Ring
@@thecommentguy9380 We do know from Gaius’ remembrance that apparently, he and Messmer acted as elder brothers to Radahn, so Radahn knows Messmer exists. Messmer’s spears are also the ones that are impaling the frozen Fire Giants in the mountains, so he was present there too. In the old colosseum scripts, the Lion Guardians (who we now know were likely actually the beings the Dancing Lion Divine Beasts were based on because they have shaved horns on their back) would fight against the Duelist Champion NPCs that have the snake imagery and gear on. It’s now h the theorized that the old colosseum script was depicting a re-enactment of the Shadow War by using the captured POW Lion Guardians and forcing them to fight against prisoners fitted with snake imagery to represent Messmer, just like how in Rome, re-enactments of famous battles were depicted in the colosseum by pitting gladiators against each other. And even more tellingly, several of the Duelist NPCs can actually summon snakes out of their body, suggesting they WERE Messmer troops but were treated as convicts and ‘unclean’, yet also allowed and expected to guard Erdtree burial sites (so suggesting they still hold some respectful rank). I don’t think Messmer’s existence himself was kept secret, but rather he was declared a traitor and possibly some story about him staying in the Lands of Shadow to rule it as his own Kingdom was cooked up, hence why the snake is the symbol of traitors to the Erdtree.
@@Elementroar honestly there's definitely some level of contradiction here. Because on one hand some of the descs say Marika did care about her son, but on the other he is seen as reviled traitor. Though by description of his outfit he did tell his mother to direct all hatred torwards him, so perhaps she did take that to heart to paint him as a villain as he faithfully fulfill her wishes
The VA for Messmer is incredible, honestly alot of them are! The Intro Narrator and his magnificent "Rise now, ye Tarnished" or how he screams Gideon's name... Ranni and her gentle yet sharp, cute and creepy voice tone and vocabulary... And last but not least, "Mongrel intruder, thou'rt Tarnished, it seemeth" and the way he goes through a whole character development in a single fight when he finally decides he had enough from both us and his mother, his voice alone express so much its incredible!
indeed, a certain item description of messmers armor or incants state that he bore a vision of flame like his little sister. And melina is the only being that uses the "minor erdtree" incantation (during the morgott fight) found in marikas village (shaman village). This is basically 100% proof that melina is a demigod and messmers sister. i wish we knew more about melina though.
@@Blackblade-NeXimo I know miyzaki personally doesn’t like sequels,and also supposedly said this is the one time they’d do open world…but it feels clear a LOT was left open ended for a sequel. A lot of the base game stuff was never answered/addressed further. Obviously most notably godwyn/Melina/(Wether she is or isn’t the gloam eyed queen),who really was the full orchestrator of the night of black knives and why did seem to go wrong? And the DLC adds now the “base serpent”,more lore for the crucible and the “spiral” and of course the “god gate” and such. I feel even the biggest lore buffs won’t have answers to a ton of the new things the DLC added…and still won’t have any concrete ideas on previous unanswered questions.
Yeah it appears as though the union of Radagon & Marika birthed not only Melania and Miquella but also Messmerand Melina. Radagon & Ranalla Ranni, Radahn, Rykard Marika & Godfrey - Morgot, Mohg, Godwin It seems that the first letters of the parents always indicate the children’s names. Classic George RR Martin (also his initials 😂) Godwin being an outlier and also one the only one of Marika children not to be born with a curse and also isn’t born from two gods. Ranni Rykard and Radahn were born curseless but they were born of Radagon. May end Godwin got most of his genes from Godfrey. With Marikas genes being dominant as 2 of the 3 kids got most their DNA from her This isn’t fact this is just me trying to make sense of things lol correct or agree with me if you’d like.
remember that unsettling scene of "annihilation" where a dude opens the other and his guts were moving like snakes? well, i guess this is how it feels for messmer... crawling under his skin, inside his head, inside his guts.
That’s really cool, thanks for sharing. I wish there were more interaction between DLC and base game. Like imagine using messemer’s kindling for the giant forge instead. Surely that should work given how Melina is implied to be his sister.
@@yanli111 I got her to appear by talking to Shabriri and then immediately teleporting to Messmer's boss door grace. There was a talk to Melina option for that, but it's old voicelines.
@rafsandomierz5313 Yea, I figured it was because all the graces in the game most likely follow the same code or whatever. Just a funny little oversight
In the original video you did on Messmer I wished you'd focused a bit on his eye. I'm really glad you dedicated this video to the most haunting aspect of his design. ^^
@@Dolphin-E That would be a difference then, rykard's hands are the people he ate, messmer has no such process we know of. It's like saying grafted scion and revenant are similar.
Messmer was just minding his own business and when the Tarnished showed, they told him to get on his knees. He retorted that he was not their mother last night. The Tarnished took exception to that.
@@TheGamingStorage69420 Italian Italian or American Italian? Is he holding a cannoli? Originally "Mario the Smotherer" on account of the way he drowned pasta in marinara sauce got shortened to "Messmer".
The interesting thing to me is that I believe it's in the item description that the abyssal serpent EATS the fire. Like so, isn't that a 'good' thing in the Golden Order? That the abyssal serpent is actually keeping the 'fire' in check by consuming it? It's funny if the snake was actually a 'good' thing but you know, suppressing it down and sealing it, and mistreating its host, could've kinda warped it further into an actual fire serpent.
Maybe the serpent was a fail-safe to prevent the burning of the Erdtree? Maybe Marika sealed Messmer away specifically to allow the tree to be burned eventually? We will never know.
Is he a child of Radagon tho? They seemed pretty insistent that Messmer is Marika's son, but there's no mention to Radagon being his father, even if the red hair should be a blatant connection. The Remembrance of Commander Gaius says Messmer was "as an older brother" to Radahn - the word choice here seem to mean he's not Radahn's brother, but acted and was beloved like one, and if he's older than our infamous general, than he was around before Radagon married Marika. St. Trina's existent heavily implies Radagon is like her, an emotion/concept of Marika that she discarded. Maybe Messmer was born before Marika split Radagon from herself?
@@Hennichell So remember that it is unclear if the children of Radagon are aware of his true nature as Marikas other half. So from Gaius and Radahn point of view Messmer could be like an older brother whereas we know the truth or the matter and that they are more than just step siblings. Radahn, Ranni and Rykard are Demigods plain and simple as Radagon is a God in another guise. The flaming red hair Messmer inherited is one clue to his parentage but when combined with his cursed nature it’s too much of a coincidence, just like Malenia and Miquella that when children are born of a single God they are vulnerable to being cursed. Take note that although Mogh and Morgott are indeed omen, this is only viewed as a curse by the Golden Order and in other cultures and historical periods this was viewed as a blessing instead. The only confused bit for me is it’s clear Messmer and Radahn had a relationship, so Messmer was clearly around not only after Godfreys term as Elden Lord but also after the Golden Order- Carian war, so there should be more references for him in the same way there was lots of references to the Nameless King in Dark Souls. But there isn’t.
Thanks I always wanted to get a better look of what was in Messmer's eye. I think it would of been cool if what Messmer's "eye" would be a serpent's eye made of his flame
this scene in particular was the creepiest of all cutscenes in fromsoft's games. What's hiding behind that socket? the game literally keeps you in the dark. **spoilers** . (I thought the game would reveal something more about this 'base serpent' aspect of messmer (much like an outer god - similar to malenia's rot), but I guess leaving it at that makes it stranger all the more.
Not really it was just the Children between Marika and Radagon that were cursed at birth and sadly the Royal Omen brothers but thats due to the divine influence of the Crucible ... the rest were basically normal
@@Old-Deus I knew somebody would say this... I didn't want to clarify "marika/ Radagon" cause I didn't want the post to be long since this is just a youtube post.
@Old-Deus And ironically omen are only considered grotesque curse people by the golden order. When in actuality they are closer to the divinity of the primordial erdtree.
i bet fromsoft adds these small details because they know people will go and look at the models in extreme depth like this and appreciate all the tiny details
When I first saw the second phase cutscene for messmer, I thought that there was a tiny snake head glaring at you through the empty eye socket. I thought it was the "base serpent" but I guess I was imagining things 🤷♂️, would've been cool if they did that though.
The fact that From Software made such minute detail in a character model that is impossible to be noticed during gameplay or cinematic, makes you wonder if they did this because they know there will be fans like Bonfire and Zully the Witch who will detail strip their characters and find these Easter eggs. Regardless if they do this for the fans or for themselves, it shows how much they love their craft.
@@VincitOmniaVeritas7 I agree. It’s difficult to see in a cutscene. It’s not intended to be seen by the general audience. Instead of them making these details for dataminers like Bonfire and Zillow, I instead think they make these high quality details for themselves. Even with the smallest details, I just think Miyazaki is obsessed with them. He’s the type of brainiac to care about small details that flesh out his worlds in their character designs. I don’t think at all that these are intended for dataminers. It’s like drawing a knight, by hand. You have all the important details down, but small details such as drawing/adding more shading on the inside of the Knight’s armour are cool details that may please the artist themselves more than it does the consumer
I think From (especially Miyazaki himself) just likes details. Often times auteurs care so much about details that they don't care if other people see/notice or not. Kubrick once demanded a green table on the war room scene in Dr.Strangelove even though the movie is black and white
I think messmer can see out that eye actually, the red dots of the miniature snakes resemble the eyes that the large snake has dotted across it's whole body
No wonder Marika locked him up and sealed his eyes... she was scared from the God devouring serpents and the flame that can burn Erdtrees and sealing Trees! I bet Rykard's snake came from him aswell
I am beginning to believe there's a whole other Serpent deity that lives underground found so deep, so otherworldly and so powerful that the light and influence of the Erdtree and Scadutree cannot penetrate. Its weird there's not a whole lot of giant serpent enemies in the game but for some reason the ones that do are attached to demigods. I can only speculate this is what we will explore in the sequel if there is any, the abyssal serpent and whatever serpent lives beneath the Erdtree might be the inhabitants long before the Erdtree came to be, likewise the ancient dragons and the ancient serpents probably fought the ownership of the land because the dragons ruled the sky and serpents the underground, and Marika (like usual) probably had children with it.
Maybe it's a concept similar to Jörmungandr from norse mithology, a snake born from a god, was thrown by Odin in the ocean, circles the earth (base serpent), destined to kill the other gods.
My brother had the brightness higher than normal, and to me watching his gameplay, it looked like worms inside his eye socket, the fact that they're actually snakes is even creepier 😱
Rykard: What if I live in a giant snake
Messmer: What if giant snakes live in me
You got a friend in me
There's a snake in my boot
Empyrean vs Non-Empyrean
@@rcking2368~You got a snake in me
At first when we saw Messer I thought that he would be rykard pre eaten xD
I still find it kind of lacking that we didn’t end up getting any other of the known Demi gods as bosses and we didn’t even fight oke for miquella because he was already a full god at that time I think AND he basically just hangs on radahns back and fucks us up with light magic ala prince Lothric style.
Maybe it would be cool do see Godwynn or the gloam eyes queen or something like that but I think this will just be the future after the ending and the dlc is still before we get one ending in the timeline so yeah. Maybe in Elden ring 2
That empty eye socket is the best reference they could make to the Darksign.
Also the fact that the snake is the symbol of the Undead since it represents their gluttony to consume the souls of beings greater than themselves. It very much fits with the themes of conquest shown by Messmer
What about the eclipse crest greatshield?
the eye socket isnt empty though, there's a ball of writhing snakes inside the black void
@omerozel4716 I had no idea it existed (those freaking Mausoleum Knights never dropped it), but still, I feel like this is a more evident reference, given the firey edge of the eye socket.
The greatshield feels like a reference to Berserk, given the importance of the Eclipse in both the manga and this game.
Darksign is where my mind immediatly went too
The guy's body is literally hollow and filled with snek
Snek
a gazillion snakes in a giant human trenchcoat
The first boss was two guys in a lion costume, now Messmer is just three snakes in a man costume.
@@someguy4405 snuk
man i love the little shakiness/trembling in his voice when he goes "wilt thou be taken in the jaws of the abyssal serpent" the voice actor has done a phenomenal job
fr
And the devoid of light part too
He’s so hot- I mean badass!
Fr I just hate how he sounds after killing you he just sounds annoyed cuz he had to say the same line lmao
@@Ray_diant it's probably because thats not something Messmer wants to way, It was probably a command, the mask he had to take as the impaler for Marika
Him having snakes for nipples is pretty creepy.
Snipples, if you will
Snipples
@@DrTako-wk7zj no way dude
Snapple
Snooples
That's why he checks you out up close in the intro. Other than his serpents, he's blind.
he only has one eye, which is removed in the 2nd phase cutscene
@@cstndr that's not his eye, it's Marika's Seal to keep the serpent at bay
She pulled out 1 eye, to replace the other eye with a grace seal. Wth
@@svanirreads4448 of course but it’s still a functioning eye i guess, he also feels pain when he removes it
That one serpent is a little funny to me. As far as I could tell, it did not seem directly connected to him like the others, instead just hanging out on the ceiling. I wonder if it came out of him at some point, like the other 'serpent nest' comment suggests.
Messmer is literally a bunch of snakes in a trenchcoat
We love him even if he is a worm.
We do!! ❤
Worst case of tapeworm recorded in history
His design is creepy and all but the part that really worries me is that Marika was apparently scared the shitless of it.
Makes sense. The Crucible is already associated with reptiles and snakes, and now one of her children is spontaneously generating heretical things that she's trying to bury, so she shoves a seal to suppress them into his head and ships him off to The Land Of Shadow for a revenge psi-op.
Dude was both powerful and bad for the optics for her reign.
Marika: aaaah! A snake!
Messmer was probably her first child and he was cursed by something that was worshipped by those she hated. She reacted less poorly to her last two cursed children even though one of them was the potential vessel of an Outer God.
Or maybe she was scared for him, not of him. Remember what happened when Black Knight commander Andreas learned about Messmer's serpentine nature? He rebelled against him. Imagine what Erdtree elite would have done to Messmer if they knew he is a Base Serpent.
To be fair, Marika was scared of MANY things
Honestly the big snake was moving so much I didn't see the eyes
same with bayle you dont notice he has placidusaxx 2 heads in him
@@ZeroOmega-vg8nqhe WHAT?! I was far too concerned with chopping at his tail with my anti-dragon katana to get a good look. Either that or getting rammed into the area walls
@@kirbyis4ever bayle is how we finally have confirmation that he was why placidusaax lost his 2 heads. my guess. placi did the kind ghidorah bite attack then bayle used his messed up bone wing to cut them
Literally tape worms 🪱
☠
Far more terrifying than sneks! 😱☠️👻
Soon, Tarnished. Wilt thou be taken in the jaws… of the abyssal tape worm, shorn of my ass 🗣️🗣️💯💯💯🔱🔱🔥🔥🔥‼️‼️‼️🦭
It's funny. So many gods in Elden Ring behave like parasites.
Sakura: pff, I did it first!
I wonder if Messmer is like a snake nest, "birthing" serpents who chew their way out. His two snakes (or one two-headed snake) seem to be a separate entity from the abyssal serpent Messmer is turning into, and this thing in his eye looks like a nest full of baby snakes. Creepy af
The winged serpent serves to hold back the base serpent according to the winged serpent helm. Honestly it puts a whole different view on Rykard's serpent cult because the manor's old inhabitants seemed to worship the winged serpent, it's even backed by the fact the helm apparently also nerfs Messmer in phase 2
@@thecommentguy9380 Oh that's an interesting detail! I did notice the winged serpent gargoyles and filigree in the churches in the Shadowkeep Church District. Now I'm gonna go to the Volcano manor and check their decorations and compare. Another interesting to note is that there two Virgin Abductors near one of the castles, where they seem to be killing deserters. So either precursor to Rykard using them, or Rykard was aware and provided Messmer with some of his Abductors in the Shadow war campaign.
@@Elementroar as far as we know, Marika actively kept the shadow land and Messmer a secret. So these were probably troops she requisitioned to reinforce her son's forces, and even creates elixirs herself to help heal her son until probably the day she shattered the Elden Ring
@@thecommentguy9380 We do know from Gaius’ remembrance that apparently, he and Messmer acted as elder brothers to Radahn, so Radahn knows Messmer exists. Messmer’s spears are also the ones that are impaling the frozen Fire Giants in the mountains, so he was present there too.
In the old colosseum scripts, the Lion Guardians (who we now know were likely actually the beings the Dancing Lion Divine Beasts were based on because they have shaved horns on their back) would fight against the Duelist Champion NPCs that have the snake imagery and gear on. It’s now h the theorized that the old colosseum script was depicting a re-enactment of the Shadow War by using the captured POW Lion Guardians and forcing them to fight against prisoners fitted with snake imagery to represent Messmer, just like how in Rome, re-enactments of famous battles were depicted in the colosseum by pitting gladiators against each other. And even more tellingly, several of the Duelist NPCs can actually summon snakes out of their body, suggesting they WERE Messmer troops but were treated as convicts and ‘unclean’, yet also allowed and expected to guard Erdtree burial sites (so suggesting they still hold some respectful rank).
I don’t think Messmer’s existence himself was kept secret, but rather he was declared a traitor and possibly some story about him staying in the Lands of Shadow to rule it as his own Kingdom was cooked up, hence why the snake is the symbol of traitors to the Erdtree.
@@Elementroar honestly there's definitely some level of contradiction here. Because on one hand some of the descs say Marika did care about her son, but on the other he is seen as reviled traitor. Though by description of his outfit he did tell his mother to direct all hatred torwards him, so perhaps she did take that to heart to paint him as a villain as he faithfully fulfill her wishes
The VA for Messmer is incredible, honestly alot of them are!
The Intro Narrator and his magnificent "Rise now, ye Tarnished" or how he screams Gideon's name...
Ranni and her gentle yet sharp, cute and creepy voice tone and vocabulary...
And last but not least, "Mongrel intruder, thou'rt Tarnished, it seemeth" and the way he goes through a whole character development in a single fight when he finally decides he had enough from both us and his mother, his voice alone express so much its incredible!
"Willful traitors *all!"*
@@greenhydra10 "Warrior blood must truly run thy veins, Tarnished."
*CURSE YOU BAYLE!*
@@ackbarreserve *I HEREBY VOW, YOU WILL RUE THIS DAY!*
The voice acting during that part is absolutely top tier. His voice is trembling with rage!
Messmer Is such an interesing figure and i love his lore and design
I just realized that Messmer's burnt hair colour is similar to Melina's hair colour after his immolation.
indeed, a certain item description of messmers armor or incants state that he bore a vision of flame like his little sister. And melina is the only being that uses the "minor erdtree" incantation (during the morgott fight) found in marikas village (shaman village). This is basically 100% proof that melina is a demigod and messmers sister. i wish we knew more about melina though.
@@Blackblade-NeXimo I know miyzaki personally doesn’t like sequels,and also supposedly said this is the one time they’d do open world…but it feels clear a LOT was left open ended for a sequel. A lot of the base game stuff was never answered/addressed further. Obviously most notably godwyn/Melina/(Wether she is or isn’t the gloam eyed queen),who really was the full orchestrator of the night of black knives and why did seem to go wrong? And the DLC adds now the “base serpent”,more lore for the crucible and the “spiral” and of course the “god gate” and such. I feel even the biggest lore buffs won’t have answers to a ton of the new things the DLC added…and still won’t have any concrete ideas on previous unanswered questions.
@@KingOfhearts72 yeah thats also my thought. maybe they are gonna make another dlc at some point since bandai namco thinks elden ring is a cash cow
Yeah it appears as though the union of Radagon & Marika birthed not only Melania and Miquella but also Messmerand Melina.
Radagon & Ranalla
Ranni, Radahn, Rykard
Marika & Godfrey
- Morgot, Mohg, Godwin
It seems that the first letters of the parents always indicate the children’s names. Classic George RR Martin (also his initials 😂)
Godwin being an outlier and also one the only one of Marika children not to be born with a curse and also isn’t born from two gods. Ranni Rykard and Radahn were born curseless but they were born of Radagon. May end Godwin got most of his genes from Godfrey. With Marikas genes being dominant as 2 of the 3 kids got most their DNA from her
This isn’t fact this is just me trying to make sense of things lol correct or agree with me if you’d like.
i think melinas hair used to be red, but since shes burned (n bodiless) it turned sorta ash-y
remember that unsettling scene of "annihilation" where a dude opens the other and his guts were moving like snakes? well, i guess this is how it feels for messmer... crawling under his skin, inside his head, inside his guts.
That’s really cool, thanks for sharing.
I wish there were more interaction between DLC and base game. Like imagine using messemer’s kindling for the giant forge instead. Surely that should work given how Melina is implied to be his sister.
Its funny because Melina can appear in the dlc if you havent beat the game yet, but she has no new voicelines
@@amaziiin wait how does that work? Delaying her torrent offer event or rountable hold teleport event by not resting at any grace until DLC?
@@yanli111 I got her to appear by talking to Shabriri and then immediately teleporting to Messmer's boss door grace. There was a talk to Melina option for that, but it's old voicelines.
@@amaziiin Most likely not intended bug, if it was intended for her to appear there she would appear with new voice lines.
@rafsandomierz5313 Yea, I figured it was because all the graces in the game most likely follow the same code or whatever. Just a funny little oversight
In the original video you did on Messmer I wished you'd focused a bit on his eye. I'm really glad you dedicated this video to the most haunting aspect of his design. ^^
Makes sense that snakes would be so reviled when it seems that these are outright parasites.
it reminds me a lot of Rykard, the shape of the snake, the way it turns into a snake, rykard's snake has arms, messmer's snake has eyes.
I wouldn't be surprised if Messmer was based on an early concept for Rykard.
All snakes have eyes, what were you trying to say ?
Does the Serpent Hunter work on Messmer?
@@Ron_Jambo_ Don't you see Messmer's snake's body is full of eyes, just like Rykard's snake's body is full of hands?
@@Dolphin-E That would be a difference then, rykard's hands are the people he ate, messmer has no such process we know of. It's like saying grafted scion and revenant are similar.
its like the serpent is festering from being trapped by Marika's rune all his life.
His eye socket looks like a window into the far off abyss where the serpent resides
Reminds me of the unused snake ball from Bloodborne. No logical connotations between these two but still, an interesting coincidence.
kaathe: "no it was me all along."
Messmer was just minding his own business and when the Tarnished showed, they told him to get on his knees. He retorted that he was not their mother last night.
The Tarnished took exception to that.
Classic
He's the real F***mothering Snake
More like: Tarnished- Hi Messmer, I'm your new daddy.
Messmer- REEEEEEEEE
Now I want to watch the abridged again. 😂
crazy how a smol parasitic snek can cause so much havoc.
He shouldn't eat sushi in unsanitary places
thats what you get for eating that gourmet scorpion stew.
@@matguimond92 🤣
@@matguimond92 yup, I hate it when it happens.
The arena is so dark and shit moves so fast all these incredible details go by the wayside.
You can see the snake in his eye in the cutscene if you look
@ratking413 I mean yeah, of course you can see it in the cutscene. I had no idea the snakes were covered in eyes, though.
There is no Messmer, only sneks.
Please make a video on the mages in deathknight catacomb they hold a baby with themselves please show details of them
THISSS!!
yesss, i noticed it too! it's so curious
yess! I was hoping to see this detail showcased
very cool trivia to learn during 2nd breakfast
Snakes, snakes covered in eyes and wings, all the way down: That's Messmer
"no one will hold me captive, a serpent never dies"
Looks more like spaghetti than a serpent
well, he's an Italian. have you seen his hand gesture after he cracked the seal? he's not Messmer the Impaler, he's Messmer the Italian.
@@TheGamingStorage69420 Italian Italian or American Italian? Is he holding a cannoli? Originally "Mario the Smotherer" on account of the way he drowned pasta in marinara sauce got shortened to "Messmer".
So the snakes that live inside of his hollowed-out body; they have a bunch of eyes. Does he technically have “eyes on the inside?”
with the amount of explicit bloodborne references in this dlc i'd say yes
I guess his whole life, Messmer has been unlimited snake works...
The interesting thing to me is that I believe it's in the item description that the abyssal serpent EATS the fire. Like so, isn't that a 'good' thing in the Golden Order? That the abyssal serpent is actually keeping the 'fire' in check by consuming it? It's funny if the snake was actually a 'good' thing but you know, suppressing it down and sealing it, and mistreating its host, could've kinda warped it further into an actual fire serpent.
Maybe the serpent was a fail-safe to prevent the burning of the Erdtree? Maybe Marika sealed Messmer away specifically to allow the tree to be burned eventually? We will never know.
Messmer, Miquella, Malenia, Melina. All the children of Marika and Radagon. All cursed.
Is he a child of Radagon tho? They seemed pretty insistent that Messmer is Marika's son, but there's no mention to Radagon being his father, even if the red hair should be a blatant connection. The Remembrance of Commander Gaius says Messmer was "as an older brother" to Radahn - the word choice here seem to mean he's not Radahn's brother, but acted and was beloved like one, and if he's older than our infamous general, than he was around before Radagon married Marika.
St. Trina's existent heavily implies Radagon is like her, an emotion/concept of Marika that she discarded. Maybe Messmer was born before Marika split Radagon from herself?
@@Hennichell So remember that it is unclear if the children of Radagon are aware of his true nature as Marikas other half. So from Gaius and Radahn point of view Messmer could be like an older brother whereas we know the truth or the matter and that they are more than just step siblings. Radahn, Ranni and Rykard are Demigods plain and simple as Radagon is a God in another guise.
The flaming red hair Messmer inherited is one clue to his parentage but when combined with his cursed nature it’s too much of a coincidence, just like Malenia and Miquella that when children are born of a single God they are vulnerable to being cursed. Take note that although Mogh and Morgott are indeed omen, this is only viewed as a curse by the Golden Order and in other cultures and historical periods this was viewed as a blessing instead.
The only confused bit for me is it’s clear Messmer and Radahn had a relationship, so Messmer was clearly around not only after Godfreys term as Elden Lord but also after the Golden Order- Carian war, so there should be more references for him in the same way there was lots of references to the Nameless King in Dark Souls. But there isn’t.
18 inches of messmers snake
yooo..
Keep up the content brother great stuff
Thanks I always wanted to get a better look of what was in Messmer's eye.
I think it would of been cool if what Messmer's "eye" would be a serpent's eye made of his flame
This is how laser surgery works
All this detail on a creature you're barely able to get a good look at while you're frantically dodging its wild thrashing and fire Rasengans
Messmer has a thick snake.
18 inches of it
@@ortezac.5339 hummm
Didn't realize there were snakes around the edges of the socket too
Elden Ring is a horror game.
this scene in particular was the creepiest of all cutscenes in fromsoft's games. What's hiding behind that socket? the game literally keeps you in the dark.
**spoilers**
.
(I thought the game would reveal something more about this 'base serpent' aspect of messmer (much like an outer god - similar to malenia's rot), but I guess leaving it at that makes it stranger all the more.
Filled with spaghetti
All Marika children were born deform and f@cked up except for Godwyn, literally the golden child. That man deserves his own DLC.
Unless he had deathblight before being murdered. Which is a Legitimate possibility
Not really it was just the Children between Marika and Radagon that were cursed at birth and sadly the Royal Omen brothers but thats due to the divine influence of the Crucible ... the rest were basically normal
@@Old-Deus I knew somebody would say this... I didn't want to clarify "marika/ Radagon" cause I didn't want the post to be long since this is just a youtube post.
@@notdante1151 understandable 👍
@Old-Deus And ironically omen are only considered grotesque curse people by the golden order. When in actuality they are closer to the divinity of the primordial erdtree.
Thank you for the food. I love his model so much.
Always thought it was serpents behind his eye socket, but never realized the darksign
i bet fromsoft adds these small details because they know people will go and look at the models in extreme depth like this and appreciate all the tiny details
And then they make Rellana :/
the art direction of fromsoft is amazing. the storytelling and the art are one.
Outer powers and outer gods manifest in the eyes of characters in elden ring
When I first saw the second phase cutscene for messmer, I thought that there was a tiny snake head glaring at you through the empty eye socket. I thought it was the "base serpent" but I guess I was imagining things 🤷♂️, would've been cool if they did that though.
The snake ball with the ring is also reminiscent of the Fire Knight's Seal.
The fact that From Software made such minute detail in a character model that is impossible to be noticed during gameplay or cinematic, makes you wonder if they did this because they know there will be fans like Bonfire and Zully the Witch who will detail strip their characters and find these Easter eggs. Regardless if they do this for the fans or for themselves, it shows how much they love their craft.
No... They made it to be shown in a cutscene, which it does. They don't give two shits about content farmers.
@@AbelMusauh, but it can’t be seen in the cutscene we just watched. Did you noticed how much ZOOM Bonfire did here to show us that detail?
@@VincitOmniaVeritas7 I agree. It’s difficult to see in a cutscene. It’s not intended to be seen by the general audience.
Instead of them making these details for dataminers like Bonfire and Zillow, I instead think they make these high quality details for themselves. Even with the smallest details, I just think Miyazaki is obsessed with them. He’s the type of brainiac to care about small details that flesh out his worlds in their character designs. I don’t think at all that these are intended for dataminers.
It’s like drawing a knight, by hand. You have all the important details down, but small details such as drawing/adding more shading on the inside of the Knight’s armour are cool details that may please the artist themselves more than it does the consumer
I think From (especially Miyazaki himself) just likes details. Often times auteurs care so much about details that they don't care if other people see/notice or not. Kubrick once demanded a green table on the war room scene in Dr.Strangelove even though the movie is black and white
@@Odin_Oracle makes sense.
i really wanna see the infant in his personal marika statue up close
I think messmer can see out that eye actually, the red dots of the miniature snakes resemble the eyes that the large snake has dotted across it's whole body
No wonder Marika locked him up and sealed his eyes... she was scared from the God devouring serpents and the flame that can burn Erdtrees and sealing Trees! I bet Rykard's snake came from him aswell
I actually suspect he was an early concept for Rykard and they liked it so much they decided to keep it for another demi-god.
Cool character, but the utter lack of further lore is really sad.
Can you move the camera in Miquellas cutscene, is he fully visible when he comes out of Divine gateway?
Can you take a closer look at those giant fingers in the metyr arena
The way the giant snakes pulse look more like veins being pumped with blood
Mesmerized by Messmer’s eyes
Oh yeah. I definitely noticed that when I first saw the cutscene.
Hes turning into snakes. Just a big pile of 'em in the shape of a person. You can especially see it on his left thigh
Could you do a video on Metyr? Her design looks amazing, but it's hard to take a proper look during the fight.
I am beginning to believe there's a whole other Serpent deity that lives underground found so deep, so otherworldly and so powerful that the light and influence of the Erdtree and Scadutree cannot penetrate. Its weird there's not a whole lot of giant serpent enemies in the game but for some reason the ones that do are attached to demigods. I can only speculate this is what we will explore in the sequel if there is any, the abyssal serpent and whatever serpent lives beneath the Erdtree might be the inhabitants long before the Erdtree came to be, likewise the ancient dragons and the ancient serpents probably fought the ownership of the land because the dragons ruled the sky and serpents the underground, and Marika (like usual) probably had children with it.
I think its cool that he named his serpent Shaun
During that cut scene i noticed something like white maggot moving inside his eye
I saw that the first time in the cut scene, i was like: is that a snake in his eye?
We need a closer look of the scudtree avatar pleeease
Yeah, Messmer might of had the rawest deal from the plauged demi gods.
Miquella got off easy
I always thought that was just viscera.
Maybe it's a concept similar to Jörmungandr from norse mithology, a snake born from a god, was thrown by Odin in the ocean, circles the earth (base serpent), destined to kill the other gods.
Metyr next? 🔥
his eye socket looks like the darksign
Literally Writhing in his brain.
Crucible knot? Thanks for the insight. I wad curious as to if it was a known seal.
Kinda wish u zoom in his eye socket and turns out another whole new hidden area in dlc
Bro got brainworms
yeah, tell that to my Blasphemous Blade
My brother had the brightness higher than normal, and to me watching his gameplay, it looked like worms inside his eye socket, the fact that they're actually snakes is even creepier 😱
His voice is reminding me of, Melina.
I never noticed the snakes he summons/turns into have eyes all over them!
Mercurius, Caduceus. Not my idea
He's got snakes on the brain...
I actually see an eye formed with that snakes
Could you do a sizexcomparison between Gransax and the giant dead drake in the Dragon Communion Temple?
Poor Messy 😢 All he wanted was his mom's love.
I thought it was the seal Marika put in there
@VaatiVidya I think we may have found another Serpent Outer God.
Oh! They're eyes, not embers...could you iron Messmer out to a T-pose so we can see what he'd look like if his spine wasn't a bag of snakes?
is there are Rellana Unique face under her helm?
She's supposed to be Rennala's twin so if anything just assume she has the same face
@@Ron_Jambo_ not sure if I remember correctly doesn't she just sister?
I'm just imagine she is more tomboy than Rennala or Anger version
@@Ron_Jambo_ Just because they're twins doesn't necessarily mean they're identical twin.
@@pasunna I could be wrong but her title is Twin Moon Knight, I don't know if people just assumed she wa Rennala's twin or if it's stated tho
@@warriorwatch2406 More likely than not.
Goodbold darksign
Milena boy was angry.
How could Miyazaki "snake" this one in? Ha-ha...