I upgraded my B&W 602 S2's with Danny's kit (including the no rez) a few weeks ago and they sound fantastic. I also have a companion set of the 602 S1's that I will upgrade. A couple things I learned during the S2 upgrade that Danny noted in the video. First, the tweeters are removable. They are on a quarter-turn cam lock. To remove them, simply reach in and grab the magnet and turn them 1/4 turn then carefully pull them back out of the mount taking care not to bump the fragile dome on anything. There is a wafer-thin gasket used to seal them as well and I found that is reusable if you don't ham fist them. Second, the front faceplate is indeed an injection-molded POS but the good news is it too is removable. Simply remove the rubber plugs used for the speaker grill and there are screws securing it to the front of the enclosure. It's a difficult proposition to stiffen that up because of all the ribs and various plastic appurtenances B&W used when they designed it. What I did was went about bought a can of Bondo and mixed that up and literally filled in the baffle gaps as best I could, turning it into a piece of granite essentially. It is certainly a lot stiffer and less resonant, that's for sure. I got high doing this in my garage so a fan is advised if you try it. Before I installed the no rez, and this might be overkill, but I did it anyway - I installed a layer of the sound deadening bitumen-based stuff that car audio freaks use when they mummify their cars with it (I am one of those freaks). Then I installed the no rez on top of that. My end result was a cabinet that is pretty solid and much less resonant. Between the TLC on the case, the upgraded parts, redesign of the XO's, the 602's rose like a Phoenix from their 1995 era burial grounds and now sit proudly in my home theater.
Third place at the masters US nationals for the 100m, so impressive! And then a national record for the 4x100m relay, lordy. Congratulations! The human transducer is amazing. I envision months of power conditioning, your body experienced some break-in, you were amped for the races, stored energy in this case was a bonus, you had great dynamics, your relay had 3 crossovers, and the wind impedance was allowable. :)
If it's like the 602 S2s, reach in and twist the tweeter counter-clockwise to unlock it from the front baffle. You can see it if you take out the six bolts that hold in the front baffle.
Congrats on your track and field meet! Good for you for keeping in such good shape! I hear you on the glasses, though. I started having to wear readers when I was in my 40's as well.
Fascinating to hear about the running! I was a distance runner all my life until wear and tear got the better of me. Great to see you still compete and kick ass!
If you remove the four rubber stoppers for mounting the grill it will reveal the four screws that hold the plastic baffle to the cabinet. It also makes removing the tweeter (rotate and pull.) much easier.
Congratulations my friend. As a sterio enthusiasts and a senior AG triathlete I'm very impressed with your achievements. Time commitment or Time management is huge for both your professionalism and training for masters track and field. Thanks for sharing your expertise.
i had the 601 s1. it was my first high end speaker, completely blew my mind. very nice neutral midrange to my ears, but little bass and grating treble at high volumes. they were under $100 though, so an incredible value.
The entire B&W 600 Line s1,s2 and s3 could use this work. They're great speakers because they last forever, and offer a good value on the used market. The demand for them is extremely high, but I can't imagine many would want to spend as much as the used speaker costs, on an upgrade. It's a tough mix. They're certainly not perfect speakers, but they do sound pretty good for the price. Always better deals out there, if you look. Thanks Danny on the work on this. I wonder what will happen with a inner coating to reduce resonance.
good going Speed Racer. I still have a senior 40 plus amateur category record for cycling a 40 km time trial n Germany with an Asterix next to my name. I used disc wheels before they had became popular and extended handlebars in a aerodynamic position. Now all that stuff is legal but back then in the late 80s it was still something new.
Congrats on the track records! That's awesome. I was darn fast at 19 years old, but at 45 I'm not even gonna try a 100m dash, haha. I lift regularly, but just walking for now.
The 600 is even better it has just a first order on the woofer, so it plays 10kHz. Those tweeters should twist out by reaching inside the cabinet and twisting from there. It's just twist locked onto the plastic baffle.
They do, we didn't figure that out til later, but the tweeter still uses the 2 pin connector many of their other models use, so, most will find it easier to just snip and strip the stock wires than trying to connect directly to the pins on the tweeter.
@@hoth2112 It may make it easier to deal with said wires to get them free of the tweeter . Just to avoid frustration of soldering stuff inside the cabinet ;p
I got a pair of 602 S2 from a buddy and his kid had pushed the tweeters ALL THE WAY in. I had to replace a baffle also so I was on a budget. I bought the diaphragm replacements for the tweeters off of ebay. I know they are not the equivalent to the originals but I thought for $20 it wouldn't hurt anything. I have to say that I am impressed with the sound and also should add that the material is softer and took off some of the harshness that could come with these. If anyone has damaged tweeters on these then it's worth a try unless you want to spend the money on original replacement tweets.
I'm in a diy group and told them I use ofc wire and I braid them I also use silver solder and gold plated brass binding posts and I was told it's nonsense. I said it can't hurt but I was roasted for it . I believe the least resistance the better and I can hear the clarity in the sound and on my bench tests but what do I know
Congrats on your achievements on the track! Great video, as usual, Danny. Too bad that a company like B&W can't make a more affordable (not cheap!) speaker that sounds great out of the box. Thanks to you, you catch those shortcomings, and create a solution for them!
Some integrated front baffles have the tweeter glued/mounted from the inside. Screws are usually hidden in the grill mount holes, take the whole baffle off shouldn't be too hard. Wharfedale also have speakers with similar design...
Congratulations Danny! My 2 best friends growing up were soccer players. Fastest runners I knew while growing up. Oh, and that shirt is freaking awesome. I always enjoy your videos. Thank you for consistently uploading. Great content 👍😀
If you pull out the rubber plugs that hold in the grill, there are screws under there to separate the plastic plate from the wooden baffle. Then I believe you just the Tweeter out.
Pull out the rubber grommets where the grille goes you will find screws for the baffle. The tweeter is locked in place with tabs and can be rotated to remove.
Hey Everybody......sorry...it was to EASY to pass that on, just had to do it at least once in a my lifetime....Meanwhile back on Earth: through the years I've took apart (among many others) literally hundreds of B&W's in the DM600 series line and YES, the front baffle is made of two parts: the inner part is made out of particleboard and an inherent piece of the box structure (in some models is this inner part of the front baffle indeed made out MDF and in the third series extra bracing can even be found inside the box in a budget attempt to reduce those vibrations that Danny was talking about); the outer part is made out of ABS/PE mix (with more of one or the other depending on the model year) and acts at the same time as beauty cover/baffle. As for the Tweeter, it is mounted on the above mentioned "beauty cover". To remove it one only needs to grab the tweeter from behind and twist it (B&W mounts the Tweeters in this fashion in many of their cheaper speaker lines), it will snap right off. After that is achieved, removing the wires is a melted tin breeze away. So, Danny, let me know if I can show you how to do it. As for "scrappy" and his B&W's taking space in his garage...sent them to me. I'll gladly make good use of them after a couple of tweeks, so let me know...Y'ALL have a good one :)))))))))
Congrats on the athletic achievements. I could never run fast. Mid-distance, ok (2 miles to 10k). That was 40 years ago. I just bike and lift these days.
Super cool achievements on the field. Congratulations! Just crazy to see "high end" brands foisting such crossovers on the clueless consumers. I just don't get it. No real reason. What's a few bucks in order to get far better sound from your speakers?
I tend to think that they are going for a certain sound. Plus it's not really a few bucks if this kit costs a couple hundred :) The manufacturers would charge that much for the uprate components too
@@RennieAsh somewhat, but not exactly. Yes, better components cost more money, but manufacturers can get volume discounts that Danny can't. The thing is, it costs no more in labor to put in a lousy capacitor, resistor, or inductor than to put in a good one. Oftentimes these components can be upgraded for just a few dollars (price some decent but not crazy polycaps: they aren't THAT pricey but far better than using electrolytics). Then adding a simple cross brace to a cabinet to make it not as resonant would only cost maybe an extra dollar or two. It all depends, but it seems manufacturers are leaving far too much performance on the table compared to how good a speaker might sound. And they are doing so at crazy speaker prices of $2000 to $4000. I can understand why a sub-$600 speaker pair (my Diamond 12.2) might use "crappy" cross over components, but not ones costing $2000 and more EACH. For instance I have an old set of Acoustic Research AR-9 speakers from 1980 with many drivers. To upgrade the crossover capacitors in them with newer, better components can be done for $200 for both of them. Yes, I can go higher and use Mundorf oil-filled capacitors if I choose, and I'd be willing to do that because if you bought these speakers "new" today, they'd retail for around $5000 to $6000. If I could find identical value air-core inductors, I'd probably upgrade them, but sadly I've not found any. Also Danny has shown that manufacturers sometimes use bad drivers with terrible response characteristics I guess because they got a "good deal" on them (or even make them in-house), so they use them anyway. All I'm saying is that many of us would be happy spending 25% to 50% again as much on a speaker knowing we are getting 90% of the best performance from it, assuming the drivers are good and the cabinets are non-resonant and non-diffractive to the mids and highs. Then again, we can view this as a hobby and have fun "upgrading" if we have the room, the time, and the patience to do it.
It is pretty shocking, the 'quality' of parts brings to the table on this pricepoint. Not just the filter (which is bad enough), but fibre board, hollow plastics, nasty binding posts and no bracing, too...
Congratulation Danny! I wish I would not have ruined my spine so hard when I was younger. Now I´m able to walk with a Stick... due to my beard I can resemble Gandalf lol... Back in the day, I ran 1000m in 11. x seconds... Today, I can write this sentence at the same time (My hands are numb due to spine damage...So that´s the way life goes...
We've got a Magnepan, two Klipsch RF III models, a B&W center, JM Labs/Focal speaker. Should be getting the new 600M II soon as well. We did recently send back 2 speakers cuz they had issues we couldn't fix without lots of parts in a really cheap speaker.
It would be nice to have some pics, and description - maybe a schematic and exact part list what, where and how did you change on the crossover? Question: should I rebouild tha corpus mabe for a better sound?
@@dannyrichie9743 You can do it!!! I am sure there are World Championships you’d automatically be qualified for then as well?! Maybe we can add some ‘motivation’ to the challenge, whoever manages first… if you do under 12 seconds before I have my first 3-way built, I will come visit and clean your warehouse every day for an entire week. If I finish first, you will help me with a good crossover design? 🤓
Congratulations on your triumphs! Fort Lauderdale (god's waiting room) is a great little place, Mai-Kai the quintessential tiki bar should be opening back up soon. Shame about B&W unbalanced acoustic profiles dragging down the name of British Hi-Fi, Acoustic Energy make great affordable speakers at good price points except at the high end that beats all of B&W.
Wow this is great stuf. I hope you can do the b&w CM7's, i own them and people simply love or hate them. Because of my girlfriend I'm stuck with these and I made it my mission to get the best sound out of them as possible. Would love to buy a upgrade kit🙏🏼
Some of the most expensive vintage audiophile speakers were made with particle board and are still revered today by millions. From what i see on these is there is a mdf front and pb rear. This guy would trash any speaker put in front of him to sell his kits. I have an idea, why doesnt GR make their own perfect line of speakers and none of us will ever have to buy any other speaker again? Problem solved, danny could make the perfect affordable speaker for consumers and then we are done🤣
Well you need some education. People payed for fancy speakers that was build to a price point even then. Particleboard was the s-it at that time. Danny upgrade speakers that PEOPLE send him, because they like the speaker but want to take them to the next level in accuracy and live many more years. He does this measurement for FREE. Then he can sell a kit to others that share this. Buy one of his kits that will kick these BW in the butt easily. Cheaper also. Or buy finished kits. Your choice. If you haven’t heard his speaker upgrades or kits, stay away from comments. You are only showing your ignorance
Particle board can work fine for speakers, long as it's thick enough and braced properly. I have built subs this way for cars. It will be used for a long time to come.
Hi Danny, great effort with the running! Have you ever done a review on the Monitor Audio Bronze 2 ? They were winning awards here in the UK for several years before being discontinued - hence buying a pair. I’m pretty new to this game and not sure wether I’ve got Cheddar or Camembert inside.
$4000.00 pair of Revel bookshelf's...18.00 in crossover parts...Danny exposed Revel in a recent video. Now I think you can answer your own question. Get a kit and a flat pack, that's what I'm going to do.
@@lexicon612 My Focals 906 were award winning as well, Multiple editors choice, 5 star what Hifi etc. Danny showed them for what they are. Ok, they are not as bad value as the Revels but they have the same shitty crossover parts. My Focals are fixable (waiting for Danny to put the upgrade on the site), but if I was starting over, I'd do the flat pack as well. Will last a lifetime.
@@jondonnelly4831 My 1st real setup was the B&W 602's and 3's...convinced I had world beaters for a few years...foolish, as they are full of cheese (like everywhere) Decent drivers in general (fatiguing metal dome) the rest is crap. Landed on the EPOS Epic 2. With this model, they spent less on the cabinet to ensure sound quality...Crossover parts reflect that philosophy. I still believe my upgrade path is a Kit...but beating these Epic 2's with stereo (high level input) Martin Logan sub's will not be easy. It's going to be fun comparing them. Still torn between Danny's kit and the CSS Criton 1TD-X Kit (being compared favorably with 10k bookshelf's) Holding its own and more. substantially more money, but is it worth it? Any thought's, before I pull the trigger? I may just have to put in a call to Danny's people Helping me decide. Danny is the one I trust. Probably just answered my own question.
After the arched responses from your fellow YTers, after you called them out, (I have Golden Ears and that's enough' crew.) who has taken the offer to come on over?
Just curious, why don't speaker manufactures use variable hi and low pass filters for each driver like they do with subwoofers, so you can tweak the crossover points to your liking?
That would require a lot more parts (multiple crossovers) and then you run into space constraints. It's more common to see in active/powered speakers or those with digital crossovers, but most aren't worth the cost and the parts quality isn't worth it until you get into top level units. Pushing them well outside the price range of most users
Because it would be very expensive in passive x-over form. Also getting the mid and tweeter to blend nicely is sometimes a challenge. There's a Lithuanian company that allows for some tuning in their higher line models, $15k up, others have adjustable attenuation level for tweeter. But generally in most, and especially in $500 spkrs the crossover is designed to be simple, cost effective and make ldspkrs sound decent. Minimizing costs is usually the main factor. I'm not saying you can't tune it to your liking without extensive crossover rebuilding, still having a measuring system helps.
Think about the money we pay for these B&Ws...and they come in particle board cases? What did they save, some $2 between the particle board and the MDF option in their factory in China? Good looks and attractive exterior get you only so far. These are a total crap, stock standard.
@@dannyrichie9743 Did you examine and critique that speaker? If so can you tell me what you thought of it. I have two old McIntosh speakers . They sound pretty good but they need help in the bass dept. with the 104 equalizer. How did you find the quality of the parts inside that speaker? My speakers are too large for shipping as I am up here in Ontario, Canada. They have two woofers, two tweeters and a midrange! I would like to have a little more high end sound from them. Thanks . Dan
Impossible!!! My father had me over his house to let me hear his new Bose Acoustimass system. We were watching a movie or show on TV and he was telling me all about it - he said that he spent "some money on it" but it was worth it to get the "best" speakers. Bloated midbass hump and muffled vocals from the bass module with no deep bass and no high treble - and absolutely no flexibility to add on other components or features. I didn't have the heart to tell him that my desktop HP and speakers setup would utterly trounce the Bose system - this being a laptop based system with a mid-range SMSL Su-9 DAC into a Gustard H20 hp amp/pre feeding Hifiman Arya v2s. The H20 fed (at that time) a resistor bypassed Emotiva A-100 into some NOS slightly modded Energy RC-10 speakers w/ no subwoofer used. I bought several pieces of the system used and probably spent less than 50% of what he did but still have better sound. Never buy Bose - I wished he would've asked me first. I was ashamed to tell him after he spent those thousands....
Revel $4000.00 bookshelf's (18.00 Crossover) and now this. Two of the most reputable companies (or so we thought) Selling absolute CRAP masquerading as High End speakers. Never again...I will know everything inside a speaker from now on. Before I buy (probably one of your kits) If you have time...any thoughts on your main competition's offering...CSS Criton 1TD-X? Is that as good as the hype and why is yours better? EPOS epic 2's with 2 Martin Logan 8" Sub's (high Level inputs) in Stereo. WADIA 151 Power DAC Mini...This setup is the best I've heard. Expecting to next level with your kit...reasonable? A better comparison might be the non X version they offer, as the X version is much more expensive. TY for your time in advance. Steve.
I just don’t get it People buy these B&W speakers 💰💰 and they need an extra upgrade.😳 There is something wrong with that picture 🙄 I bought these Focal speakers a number of years ago. Had custom made MDF speaker cabinets made for these. Focal K2 Power 165KRX2
I bought the 602 S2's about 20 yrs ago. I would describe them as ice picks in my ears. Absolutely painful to listen to. Now they are just taking up space in the garage. I find it unbelievable that a company known for high end audio sells this cheesy junk.
"Supermarket speakers", B&W is just another brand made to sell. It's like how they promote them by being studio speakers, then people come forward and talk about when they were there just for photo shoots, they never used them in the studio. 😂 I mean if people really do enjoy them then that's fine, but they are over hyped/priced no matter what.
@@PSA78 These caused me so much wasted time and money. Spent time trying to adjust room acoustics, then blamed equipment. Especially CD players, could never get the sound even remotely enjoyable. For a few years I gave up on audio. I then took a new approach because of Danny's channel. I Found on the net that others had the same opinion of the 602's, and modified the crossovers. Played around modifying , but I still was not satisfied, and dropped some big cash on new speakers. WOW, what a difference. Music is now enjoyable once again. DAMN you BW!! Gonna have a fire sale, anyone interested in BW ashes?
@@scrappy7571 And they are not alone. Speakers that sounds "exciting" in the store sells, but are plain obnoxious to listen for any longer period of time.
@Memer Dreamer No need to list my other components, because once the the BW's were removed from the equation the sound became enjoyable. I will mention, that my system includes 7 amps/receivers, 2 turntables, 3 DACs, 2 equalizers and several CD players. Room treatments helped for sure, but not enough to help with removing ice picks, lol
Too much effort expended on making junk listenable. B+W made good EXPENSIVE speakers and the lower priced models were crappy. It was a business model that most manufacturers used. In the nascent times of home audio, some companies NEVER used anything other than good looking boxes to market their junk. It was a tough time then, in finding well constructed, good to the ear, anything. It was the time that formulated the thought tubes were god's gift because solid state did suck.
Yeah, you move on. Bye bye. This video shows what can be done to these speakers and a solution that is not charity. Some poor bast-rd didn’t fancy the sound and asked Danny to make the accurate. He did and sells a fix. It’s a great ibuprofen
I upgraded my B&W 602 S2's with Danny's kit (including the no rez) a few weeks ago and they sound fantastic. I also have a companion set of the 602 S1's that I will upgrade. A couple things I learned during the S2 upgrade that Danny noted in the video. First, the tweeters are removable. They are on a quarter-turn cam lock. To remove them, simply reach in and grab the magnet and turn them 1/4 turn then carefully pull them back out of the mount taking care not to bump the fragile dome on anything. There is a wafer-thin gasket used to seal them as well and I found that is reusable if you don't ham fist them. Second, the front faceplate is indeed an injection-molded POS but the good news is it too is removable. Simply remove the rubber plugs used for the speaker grill and there are screws securing it to the front of the enclosure. It's a difficult proposition to stiffen that up because of all the ribs and various plastic appurtenances B&W used when they designed it. What I did was went about bought a can of Bondo and mixed that up and literally filled in the baffle gaps as best I could, turning it into a piece of granite essentially. It is certainly a lot stiffer and less resonant, that's for sure. I got high doing this in my garage so a fan is advised if you try it. Before I installed the no rez, and this might be overkill, but I did it anyway - I installed a layer of the sound deadening bitumen-based stuff that car audio freaks use when they mummify their cars with it (I am one of those freaks). Then I installed the no rez on top of that. My end result was a cabinet that is pretty solid and much less resonant. Between the TLC on the case, the upgraded parts, redesign of the XO's, the 602's rose like a Phoenix from their 1995 era burial grounds and now sit proudly in my home theater.
Third place at the masters US nationals for the 100m, so impressive! And then a national record for the 4x100m relay, lordy. Congratulations!
The human transducer is amazing. I envision months of power conditioning, your body experienced some break-in, you were amped for the races, stored energy in this case was a bonus, you had great dynamics, your relay had 3 crossovers, and the wind impedance was allowable. :)
The tweeter comes out. It has a turning mechanism, reaching from inside.
Congrats on your Track & Field Achievements. Absolutely OUTSTANDING!!! #1 in Track and in Speaker Analysis! Glad to see you back in the saddle again.
If it's like the 602 S2s, reach in and twist the tweeter counter-clockwise to unlock it from the front baffle. You can see it if you take out the six bolts that hold in the front baffle.
Welcome to the "Trash Another Speaker" channel.
Congrats on your track and field meet! Good for you for keeping in such good shape! I hear you on the glasses, though. I started having to wear readers when I was in my 40's as well.
Fascinating to hear about the running! I was a distance runner all my life until wear and tear got the better of me. Great to see you still compete and kick ass!
If you remove the four rubber stoppers for mounting the grill it will reveal the four screws that hold the plastic baffle to the cabinet. It also makes removing the tweeter (rotate and pull.) much easier.
Good advice!
Congratulations Danny
Congrats on the games. My grandma brought home tons of medals from the senior games over the years.
I have the B & W 685 S2. On a warm day I can smell the cheese coming from the crossover 😭
Toast some bread and you can have grilled cheese sandwich for lunch 🤣
It's not so much the cheese, it's just a bad execution
Congratulations my friend. As a sterio enthusiasts and a senior AG triathlete I'm very impressed with your achievements. Time commitment or Time management is huge for both your professionalism and training for masters track and field. Thanks for sharing your expertise.
Dang wish I would have known .I'm in ft Lauderdale 🥺
Congrats on tour record 👏
Danny - Congratulations on your sprinting! Good to have you back.
Congratulations on your track meet, it sounds like fun.
i had the 601 s1. it was my first high end speaker, completely blew my mind. very nice neutral midrange to my ears, but little bass and grating treble at high volumes. they were under $100 though, so an incredible value.
The entire B&W 600 Line s1,s2 and s3 could use this work. They're great speakers because they last forever, and offer a good value on the used market. The demand for them is extremely high, but I can't imagine many would want to spend as much as the used speaker costs, on an upgrade. It's a tough mix. They're certainly not perfect speakers, but they do sound pretty good for the price. Always better deals out there, if you look. Thanks Danny on the work on this. I wonder what will happen with a inner coating to reduce resonance.
good going Speed Racer. I still have a senior 40 plus amateur category record for cycling a 40 km time trial n Germany with an Asterix next to my name. I used disc wheels before they had became popular and extended handlebars in a aerodynamic position. Now all that stuff is legal but back then in the late 80s it was still something new.
Congrats on placing in the sprints and relay!
Great run Danny👍🙂
Congrats on the track records! That's awesome. I was darn fast at 19 years old, but at 45 I'm not even gonna try a 100m dash, haha. I lift regularly, but just walking for now.
Congratulations! 🎊🎉
The 600 is even better it has just a first order on the woofer, so it plays 10kHz.
Those tweeters should twist out by reaching inside the cabinet and twisting from there. It's just twist locked onto the plastic baffle.
They do, we didn't figure that out til later, but the tweeter still uses the 2 pin connector many of their other models use, so, most will find it easier to just snip and strip the stock wires than trying to connect directly to the pins on the tweeter.
@@hoth2112 It may make it easier to deal with said wires to get them free of the tweeter . Just to avoid frustration of soldering stuff inside the cabinet ;p
@@RennieAsh you won't need to solder anything inside the cabinet either way.
I got a pair of 602 S2 from a buddy and his kid had pushed the tweeters ALL THE WAY in. I had to replace a baffle also so I was on a budget. I bought the diaphragm replacements for the tweeters off of ebay. I know they are not the equivalent to the originals but I thought for $20 it wouldn't hurt anything. I have to say that I am impressed with the sound and also should add that the material is softer and took off some of the harshness that could come with these. If anyone has damaged tweeters on these then it's worth a try unless you want to spend the money on original replacement tweets.
Congratulations!
Congratulations 🙋👍❤️
I'm in a diy group and told them I use ofc wire and I braid them I also use silver solder and gold plated brass binding posts and I was told it's nonsense. I said it can't hurt but I was roasted for it . I believe the least resistance the better and I can hear the clarity in the sound and on my bench tests but what do I know
Congrats on your achievements on the track! Great video, as usual, Danny. Too bad that a company like B&W can't make a more affordable (not cheap!) speaker that sounds great out of the box. Thanks to you, you catch those shortcomings, and create a solution for them!
Congrats Man! High Five!
Congrats Danny….I had no idea you were a champion sprinter. Badass!!
Some integrated front baffles have the tweeter glued/mounted from the inside.
Screws are usually hidden in the grill mount holes, take the whole baffle off shouldn't be too hard. Wharfedale also have speakers with similar design...
Congratulations Danny! My 2 best friends growing up were soccer players. Fastest runners I knew while growing up. Oh, and that shirt is freaking awesome. I always enjoy your videos. Thank you for consistently uploading. Great content 👍😀
Thanks, and my wife bought me the shirt.
Dam good for you with the running. My knees barely hold me up
Epic, congrats on the sports action.
Congratulations on the track record
The tweeter is removable by rotating it from the rear - you can get to it by removing the woofer and reaching upwards (same on all the 600 series).
National record!? Nice 👍
If you pull out the rubber plugs that hold in the grill, there are screws under there to separate the plastic plate from the wooden baffle. Then I believe you just the Tweeter out.
Pull out the rubber grommets where the grille goes you will find screws for the baffle. The tweeter is locked in place with tabs and can be rotated to remove.
Missed your knowledge, big time 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Just bought a pair of these for £89, can’t imagine spending £400 to tweak them. I appreciate the idea though
Hey Everybody......sorry...it was to EASY to pass that on, just had to do it at least once in a my lifetime....Meanwhile back on Earth: through the years I've took apart (among many others) literally hundreds of B&W's in the DM600 series line and YES, the front baffle is made of two parts: the inner part is made out of particleboard and an inherent piece of the box structure (in some models is this inner part of the front baffle indeed made out MDF and in the third series extra bracing can even be found inside the box in a budget attempt to reduce those vibrations that Danny was talking about); the outer part is made out of ABS/PE mix (with more of one or the other depending on the model year) and acts at the same time as beauty cover/baffle. As for the Tweeter, it is mounted on the above mentioned "beauty cover". To remove it one only needs to grab the tweeter from behind and twist it (B&W mounts the Tweeters in this fashion in many of their cheaper speaker lines), it will snap right off. After that is achieved, removing the wires is a melted tin breeze away. So, Danny, let me know if I can show you how to do it. As for "scrappy" and his B&W's taking space in his garage...sent them to me. I'll gladly make good use of them after a couple of tweeks, so let me know...Y'ALL have a good one :)))))))))
Fabulous work.
Congrats on your results. I recent decided to get some exercise. I have to committed, to having a serious think, about going for a short walk.
one foot in front of the other, repeat as often as necessary. 5,000-10,000 times a day!
@@jondonnelly4831 sounds like I am already on the journey the moment I get out of bed.
Congrats on the athletic achievements. I could never run fast. Mid-distance, ok (2 miles to 10k). That was 40 years ago. I just bike and lift these days.
The tweeter just twists out from the inside
The guy in the red shirt of the top 2 photos, is his name Tim Dwight? He looks a little familiar.
Nope.
Congrats!
Super cool achievements on the field. Congratulations! Just crazy to see "high end" brands foisting such crossovers on the clueless consumers. I just don't get it. No real reason. What's a few bucks in order to get far better sound from your speakers?
I tend to think that they are going for a certain sound. Plus it's not really a few bucks if this kit costs a couple hundred :) The manufacturers would charge that much for the uprate components too
@@RennieAsh somewhat, but not exactly. Yes, better components cost more money, but manufacturers can get volume discounts that Danny can't.
The thing is, it costs no more in labor to put in a lousy capacitor, resistor, or inductor than to put in a good one.
Oftentimes these components can be upgraded for just a few dollars (price some decent but not crazy polycaps: they aren't THAT pricey but far better than using electrolytics).
Then adding a simple cross brace to a cabinet to make it not as resonant would only cost maybe an extra dollar or two.
It all depends, but it seems manufacturers are leaving far too much performance on the table compared to how good a speaker might sound.
And they are doing so at crazy speaker prices of $2000 to $4000.
I can understand why a sub-$600 speaker pair (my Diamond 12.2) might use "crappy" cross over components, but not ones costing $2000 and more EACH.
For instance I have an old set of Acoustic Research AR-9 speakers from 1980 with many drivers.
To upgrade the crossover capacitors in them with newer, better components can be done for $200 for both of them.
Yes, I can go higher and use Mundorf oil-filled capacitors if I choose, and I'd be willing to do that because if you bought these speakers "new" today, they'd retail for around $5000 to $6000.
If I could find identical value air-core inductors, I'd probably upgrade them, but sadly I've not found any.
Also Danny has shown that manufacturers sometimes use bad drivers with terrible response characteristics I guess because they got a "good deal" on them (or even make them in-house), so they use them anyway.
All I'm saying is that many of us would be happy spending 25% to 50% again as much on a speaker knowing we are getting 90% of the best performance from it, assuming the drivers are good and the cabinets are non-resonant and non-diffractive to the mids and highs.
Then again, we can view this as a hobby and have fun "upgrading" if we have the room, the time, and the patience to do it.
Great video as always 👍
nice to see yor u are a runner to !!! but lets talk speakers ..
It is pretty shocking, the 'quality' of parts brings to the table on this pricepoint. Not just the filter (which is bad enough), but fibre board, hollow plastics, nasty binding posts and no bracing, too...
Metal tweeters + no grill + little fingers = arrrghhhh!!! congrats on the running!
Try to turn the Tweeter from inside end normaly is come out easy i have the same speaker but 603 s2 tree ways end is comming out easy from inside turn
Congratulation Danny! I wish I would not have ruined my spine so hard when I was younger. Now I´m able to walk with a Stick... due to my beard I can resemble Gandalf lol...
Back in the day, I ran 1000m in 11. x seconds... Today, I can write this sentence at the same time (My hands are numb due to spine damage...So that´s the way life goes...
Hello,
Can you please measure freaquency response for some kind of soundbar? It would be very interesting to compare with normal speakers
Wow, I think if I tried sprinting, something would break or fall off.
The tweeter just twists out.
❤. Can I compare them with a vintage Kenwood KA 1500 integrated amplifier?
Great Danny. Track master. Next video, bring your prices. Rejected speakers? Anything you’ll share with us? 😉
We've got a Magnepan, two Klipsch RF III models, a B&W center, JM Labs/Focal speaker. Should be getting the new 600M II soon as well.
We did recently send back 2 speakers cuz they had issues we couldn't fix without lots of parts in a really cheap speaker.
Dam them some cheese alright
comigrates on your races WOW ur in good shape NICE!
It would be nice to have some pics, and description - maybe a schematic and exact part list what, where and how did you change on the crossover?
Question: should I rebouild tha corpus mabe for a better sound?
Buy the kit and you will know! Danny doesn’t do charity.
Congrats to your National Championship record! That’s pretty amazing! What are actual 100m times these days?
I was about a tenth and a half off my normal average: nsga-results.fusesport.com/drawindividual.asp?id=578849&seasonid=741
@@dannyrichie9743 Holy running shoe, 12.3s? That’s tweeter territory right there, ribbon or AMT.
@@sveneisenhauer1 I've run 12.19 recently. My short term goal is to to break into the 11's.
@@dannyrichie9743 You can do it!!! I am sure there are World Championships you’d automatically be qualified for then as well?! Maybe we can add some ‘motivation’ to the challenge, whoever manages first… if you do under 12 seconds before I have my first 3-way built, I will come visit and clean your warehouse every day for an entire week. If I finish first, you will help me with a good crossover design? 🤓
@@sveneisenhauer1 I'd help you with your crossover regardless.
Congratulations on your triumphs!
Fort Lauderdale (god's waiting room) is a great little place, Mai-Kai the quintessential tiki bar should be opening back up soon.
Shame about B&W unbalanced acoustic profiles dragging down the name of British Hi-Fi, Acoustic Energy make great affordable speakers at good price points except at the high end that beats all of B&W.
Wow this is great stuf. I hope you can do the b&w CM7's, i own them and people simply love or hate them. Because of my girlfriend I'm stuck with these and I made it my mission to get the best sound out of them as possible. Would love to buy a upgrade kit🙏🏼
You are welcome to send on in.
@@dannyrichie9743 send a pair of speaker over seas?
@@barrrybarrry It happens.
@@dannyrichie9743 I'll keep following you and hope one day I'll be able to buy an upgrade package
Congrats Danny! Is that the new nx studio floorstander? ;) And I like the new waveguide.
No, it's just a stand mounted NX-Studio Monitor that we had in house for demo's.
Some of the most expensive vintage audiophile speakers were made with particle board and are still revered today by millions. From what i see on these is there is a mdf front and pb rear.
This guy would trash any speaker put in front of him to sell his kits. I have an idea, why doesnt GR make their own perfect line of speakers and none of us will ever have to buy any other speaker again? Problem solved, danny could make the perfect affordable speaker for consumers and then we are done🤣
Well you need some education. People payed for fancy speakers that was build to a price point even then. Particleboard was the s-it at that time.
Danny upgrade speakers that PEOPLE send him, because they like the speaker but want to take them to the next level in accuracy and live many more years. He does this measurement for FREE. Then he can sell a kit to others that share this. Buy one of his kits that will kick these BW in the butt easily. Cheaper also. Or buy finished kits. Your choice. If you haven’t heard his speaker upgrades or kits, stay away from comments. You are only showing your ignorance
Hi Danny, how about a NX STUDIO build video🙂
Will do.
Do a video how to season lead fringing pans.
Will you be entering in the World Championships in Eugene in July? :) If so, see you there!
World championships are in Finland for the Masters and it is in July.
Does anyone know if GR do custom made speakers? I need a dodecahedron or di-pole speaker built for acoustical measurement.
My near field eyesight finally gave out around age 50.
Tons of speakers of the old day were made with particle board, even higher end ones. Nowadays I get there are better options tho ... Weird
Speakers I've had or still have that were from the '80s and '90s were all particleboard.
Particle board can work fine for speakers, long as it's thick enough and braced properly. I have built subs this way for cars. It will be used for a long time to come.
Congrats on the win. Obviously you are NOT a one-dimensional geek. What is your age group for competition? BTW: Great hair for your age!
I am in the 55 to 59 year old age group.
“The standard cheese”
Hi Danny, great effort with the running! Have you ever done a review on the Monitor Audio Bronze 2 ? They were winning awards here in the UK for several years before being discontinued - hence buying a pair. I’m pretty new to this game and not sure wether I’ve got Cheddar or Camembert inside.
$4000.00 pair of Revel bookshelf's...18.00 in crossover parts...Danny exposed Revel in a recent video. Now I think you can answer your own question. Get a kit and a flat pack, that's what I'm going to do.
@@lexicon612 My Focals 906 were award winning as well, Multiple editors choice, 5 star what Hifi etc. Danny showed them for what they are. Ok, they are not as bad value as the Revels but they have the same shitty crossover parts. My Focals are fixable (waiting for Danny to put the upgrade on the site), but if I was starting over, I'd do the flat pack as well. Will last a lifetime.
@@jondonnelly4831 My 1st real setup was the
B&W 602's and 3's...convinced I had world beaters for a few years...foolish, as they are full of cheese (like everywhere) Decent drivers in general (fatiguing metal dome) the rest is crap. Landed on the EPOS Epic 2.
With this model, they spent less on the cabinet to ensure sound quality...Crossover parts reflect that philosophy. I still believe my upgrade path is a Kit...but beating these Epic 2's with stereo (high level input) Martin Logan sub's will not be easy. It's going to be fun comparing them. Still torn between Danny's kit and the CSS Criton 1TD-X Kit (being compared favorably with 10k bookshelf's)
Holding its own and more. substantially more money, but is it worth it? Any thought's, before I pull the trigger? I may just have to put in a call to Danny's people
Helping me decide. Danny is the one I trust.
Probably just answered my own question.
After the arched responses from your fellow YTers, after you called them out, (I have Golden Ears and that's enough' crew.) who has taken the offer to come on over?
So far one has come, and two of them have upgraded their rooms.
Cm10 bnw have you worked on this set at all? I'm very curious what I can do to make them better
I have not worked on that model.
🤗🤗🤗🤗
Just curious, why don't speaker manufactures use variable hi and low pass filters for each driver like they do with subwoofers, so you can tweak the crossover points to your liking?
That would require a lot more parts (multiple crossovers) and then you run into space constraints. It's more common to see in active/powered speakers or those with digital crossovers, but most aren't worth the cost and the parts quality isn't worth it until you get into top level units. Pushing them well outside the price range of most users
@@hoth2112 Good explanation, makes sense.
Because it would be very expensive in passive x-over form. Also getting the mid and tweeter to blend nicely is sometimes a challenge. There's a Lithuanian company that allows for some tuning in their higher line models, $15k up, others have adjustable attenuation level for tweeter. But generally in most, and especially in $500 spkrs the crossover is designed to be simple, cost effective and make ldspkrs sound decent. Minimizing costs is usually the main factor. I'm not saying you can't tune it to your liking without extensive crossover rebuilding, still having a measuring system helps.
@@pliedtka Wow, I didn't think it would be so expensive. I think it can be done at an affordable price, but of course the parts would be cheesy ;)
My old rear speakers...
Before the races Danny had some snake oil from PS audio ...only joking
For the money, to get 1/2" particle board and a junk crossover is a sad testament to this series and the company.
That additional FR over 20 kHz would really bother me. Thanks for the video, I'll stay far away.
Snare drum and cymbals have energy up there and would be the most affected. Most other instruments have little energy above 10 KHz.
Think about the money we pay for these B&Ws...and they come in particle board cases? What did they save, some $2 between the particle board and the MDF option in their factory in China?
Good looks and attractive exterior get you only so far. These are a total crap, stock standard.
If a company wants to be known for speaker 🔊 why not use better parts .
I for one am anything but rich but sheesh .
Thanks Danny .👍🏻🏆
Did you ever do or examine any McIntosh speakers?
I have had one old one in here.
@@dannyrichie9743 Did you examine and critique that speaker? If so can you tell me what you thought of it. I have two old McIntosh speakers . They sound pretty good but they need help in the bass dept. with the 104 equalizer. How did you find the quality of the parts inside that speaker? My speakers are too large for shipping as I am up here in Ontario, Canada. They have two woofers, two tweeters and a midrange! I would like to have a little more high end sound from them. Thanks . Dan
@@dandyett9588 It was an older model with a woofer and three tweeters. The response was a total disaster. We never did anything with it.
I'd say the B&W fanboys are even more ridiculous and stubbornly deluded than Bose fanboys.
Impossible!!! My father had me over his house to let me hear his new Bose Acoustimass system. We were watching a movie or show on TV and he was telling me all about it - he said that he spent "some money on it" but it was worth it to get the "best" speakers. Bloated midbass hump and muffled vocals from the bass module with no deep bass and no high treble - and absolutely no flexibility to add on other components or features. I didn't have the heart to tell him that my desktop HP and speakers setup would utterly trounce the Bose system - this being a laptop based system with a mid-range SMSL Su-9 DAC into a Gustard H20 hp amp/pre feeding Hifiman Arya v2s. The H20 fed (at that time) a resistor bypassed Emotiva A-100 into some NOS slightly modded Energy RC-10 speakers w/ no subwoofer used. I bought several pieces of the system used and probably spent less than 50% of what he did but still have better sound. Never buy Bose - I wished he would've asked me first. I was ashamed to tell him after he spent those thousands....
Unless you get the the 801 or 802, the rest of the line is junk.
Say No to cheesy parts
Revel $4000.00 bookshelf's (18.00 Crossover) and now this. Two of the most reputable companies (or so we thought) Selling absolute CRAP masquerading as High End speakers.
Never again...I will know everything inside a speaker from now on. Before I buy (probably one of your kits) If you have time...any thoughts on your main competition's offering...CSS Criton 1TD-X?
Is that as good as the hype and why is yours better? EPOS epic 2's with 2 Martin Logan 8" Sub's (high Level inputs) in Stereo. WADIA 151 Power DAC Mini...This setup is the best I've heard.
Expecting to next level with your kit...reasonable? A better comparison might be the non X version they offer, as the X version is much more expensive. TY for your time in advance. Steve.
WELL WHY THE HELL ARENT YOU DOING TRACK VIDEOS. THIS SPEAKERS STUFF SHOULD BE YOUR LIFE.
I just don’t get it People buy these B&W speakers 💰💰 and they need an extra upgrade.😳 There is something wrong with that picture 🙄 I bought these Focal speakers a number of years ago. Had custom made MDF speaker cabinets made for these.
Focal K2 Power 165KRX2
Those are a good set of drivers.
K2 - the technology goes back to the '80s, nothing really that special, not for the past 20+ yrs
OMG I can't believe what junk people make.
I had a pair of these, HATED the way they sounded, literally a pair of £20 plastic outdoor speakers off eBay sound better
I bought the 602 S2's about 20 yrs ago. I would describe them as ice picks in my ears. Absolutely painful to listen to. Now they are just taking up space in the garage. I find it unbelievable that a company known for high end audio sells this cheesy junk.
"Supermarket speakers", B&W is just another brand made to sell. It's like how they promote them by being studio speakers, then people come forward and talk about when they were there just for photo shoots, they never used them in the studio. 😂
I mean if people really do enjoy them then that's fine, but they are over hyped/priced no matter what.
@@PSA78 These caused me so much wasted time and money. Spent time trying to adjust room acoustics, then blamed equipment. Especially CD players, could never get the sound even remotely enjoyable. For a few years I gave up on audio. I then took a new approach because of Danny's channel. I Found on the net that others had the same opinion of the 602's, and modified the crossovers. Played around modifying , but I still was not satisfied, and dropped some big cash on new speakers. WOW, what a difference. Music is now enjoyable once again. DAMN you BW!! Gonna have a fire sale, anyone interested in BW ashes?
@@scrappy7571 And they are not alone. Speakers that sounds "exciting" in the store sells, but are plain obnoxious to listen for any longer period of time.
@Memer Dreamer No need to list my other components, because once the the BW's were removed from the equation the sound became enjoyable. I will mention, that my system includes 7 amps/receivers, 2 turntables, 3 DACs, 2 equalizers and several CD players. Room treatments helped for sure, but not enough to help with removing ice picks, lol
Too much effort expended on making junk listenable. B+W made good EXPENSIVE speakers and the lower priced models were crappy. It was a business model that most manufacturers used. In the nascent times of home audio, some companies NEVER used anything other than good looking boxes to market their junk. It was a tough time then, in finding well constructed, good to the ear, anything. It was the time that formulated the thought tubes were god's gift because solid state did suck.
This is just an ad to sell you a kit. Just move on!
Yeah, you move on. Bye bye. This video shows what can be done to these speakers and a solution that is not charity. Some poor bast-rd didn’t fancy the sound and asked Danny to make the accurate. He did and sells a fix.
It’s a great ibuprofen