Pig’s trotters - Pierre Koffmann's recipe

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  • Опубліковано 20 лип 2024
  • Learn how to cook Pierre Koffmann’s famous pig trotter recipe - a dish that Marco Pierre White has hailed as the best dish in the world.
    Timestamps:
    00:00 - Stuffed Pig's Trotters with Pierre Koffmann
    01:45 - Preparing the trotters
    05:34 - Cooking the trotters
    09:38 - Making the cartouche
    10:31 - Into the oven
    11:34 - Preparing the stuffing
    20:43 - Binding the Garnish
    28:06 - Stuffing the trotters
    34:53 - Making the sauce
    38:34 - Plating the dish
    Find out more:
    Join Pierre as he teaches you the fundamentals of French cuisine - just like he did Marco Pierre White, Gordon Ramsay and many more of the world’s top chefs - bbcm.co/4b0sh1K
    See more food and drink online courses: bbcm.co/3Qndztt

КОМЕНТАРІ • 278

  • @dfgndfghdfghdfgh
    @dfgndfghdfghdfgh 2 місяці тому +176

    Surreal, I saw Marco pierre white make trotters a la Koffman decades ago and now the man himself is making it.

    • @fakename6658
      @fakename6658 2 місяці тому +7

      Same here.
      The big difference i noticed is how easy it was for a young guy like Marco to snap and tear the trotters apart.

    • @Dee-gi4ge
      @Dee-gi4ge 2 місяці тому +4

      It’s your choice.

    • @ATJ-sTAt
      @ATJ-sTAt Місяць тому +5

      I suggest you watch "Anti-Chef" here on YT. He made Pierre-White's version as a beginner not long ago. He is also really entertaining.

    • @BBCMaestro
      @BBCMaestro  Місяць тому +3

      That's lovely to hear!

    • @rsb8380
      @rsb8380 Місяць тому +4

      Whoever’s idea it was to produce a 40 minute video of Pierre making trotters deserves a medal. This is so good, and he explains so many tiny details and integral things you would otherwise miss or have no idea about. Like, it’s a recipe that needs that kind of length.

  • @StayPrimal
    @StayPrimal 2 місяці тому +67

    Wait a minute, a 40 mins video of Pierre Koffman?! What did we do to deserve that 🙌

    • @breakingoutin2212
      @breakingoutin2212 2 місяці тому +3

      shut up now

    • @chicchitammuottocifa
      @chicchitammuottocifa 2 місяці тому +1

      @@breakingoutin2212 🤣

    • @tititichirca8250
      @tititichirca8250 2 місяці тому +1

      Just say thanks, and enjoy 😂

    • @kennywise1
      @kennywise1 2 місяці тому +6

      @@breakingoutin2212 only a loser would comment that and be disrespectful

    • @theodore6548
      @theodore6548 24 дні тому +1

      It would seem your detractors here missed your point entirely.

  • @DoctorProperty
    @DoctorProperty 2 місяці тому +62

    Genius. I ate this dish many years ago when Mr Koffmann had his restarunt in Hospital Road, Chelsea. The only difference is that I think he had truffle in it as well. I can say at the age of 65 that this is the best dish I have ever eaten. I left the restaurant in a daze, not before I had booked for lunch the next day.

    • @HarryQ94
      @HarryQ94 2 місяці тому +3

      You’re very lucky to have eaten at La Tante Claire, I’m too young to have gotten the opportunity to eat there, although I have eaten at the same establishment multiple times at the 3 Michelin star restaurant Gordon Ramsay which is absolutely fantastic

    • @HarryQ94
      @HarryQ94 2 місяці тому +3

      @@ajconstantine3593 dried morel mushrooms. In water to rehydrate

    • @ajconstantine3593
      @ajconstantine3593 2 місяці тому +1

      @@HarryQ94 Thank you! Shroomers are my kryptonite, so I’ll use alternate umami (I love mushroom _powder,_ however). ✌️

    • @karohemd2426
      @karohemd2426 2 місяці тому +1

      @@HarryQ94 We are not worthy. :)

    • @BBCMaestro
      @BBCMaestro  Місяць тому

      We're jealous you got to taste it made by Pierre himself!

  • @jtysar
    @jtysar 2 місяці тому +31

    I'm addicted to the way he says "trotter"

  • @cumbriafoodie2259
    @cumbriafoodie2259 2 місяці тому +49

    I'm extremely fortunate to have experienced this legendary dish of Koffmanns. It's right up there with the best dishes of a lifetime.

    • @BBCMaestro
      @BBCMaestro  Місяць тому

      Incredible!

    • @toby4301
      @toby4301 Місяць тому +1

      I can reminisce your experience as well.. as I too enjoyed this beautiful dish when Pierre had his restaurant at the Berkeley Hotel.. it was delicious and I followed it up with a pistachio soufflé.. two sensational dishes at three star level

  • @richloins7249
    @richloins7249 2 місяці тому +64

    I attempted to make this dish solely off cookbook directions. It was a disaster. The flavors were there, but the chicken mouse in the trotters leaked out and fell apart. My final product ended up looking like a dish plated in a mosh pit. It was delicious, but my presentation made it look like a crime scene. Thank you for posting Chef Hoffmann's recipe and technique. I'm sure I'll wreck this in a new and more pleasing way.

    • @braisedtoast9002
      @braisedtoast9002 2 місяці тому +3

      This was my chicken kiev experience lol. These guys make it look so easy.

    • @DocPlaysBad
      @DocPlaysBad 2 місяці тому

      ​@braisedtoast9002 it's easy when you've done it thousands of times. Either way, as delicious as it looks, it is still outside my comfort zone

    • @karohemd2426
      @karohemd2426 2 місяці тому

      Well done for even having tried to do it. I imagine the mousseline is something you need an eye for determining the correct ratio of meat to liquid. Not every chicken breast has the same consistency, I bet the freshness of the egg white makes a difference (the older the looser), and the cream can be more or less liquid so you need the experience of having made it many times to know how it should look and feel.

    • @BBCMaestro
      @BBCMaestro  Місяць тому +3

      At least it was delicious! Best of luck with the next try!

    • @Alex-yy8ng
      @Alex-yy8ng Місяць тому +2

      I wouldn't worry. Nobody is supposed to master this dish on the first go. As easy as Pierre makes it look, this is a very skilled dish with a lot of different techniques on display. Most seasoned and confident cooks would struggle. Recipe books and videos will never be able to show you the instinct, the muscle memory and the sense of touch and feel that a chef has developed over decades of mastering his craft.

  • @a.leehilliard4716
    @a.leehilliard4716 2 місяці тому +13

    This used to be served as a special on Sunday nights at Le Cirque in NYC. Hard to get a table on Sunday night as this was a favorite. The closing of Le Cirque left a big hole in the dining world in NYC. People pretend and ignore how important this restaurant was. Thank goodness we still have a Le Cirque in Las Vegas and the DR.

  • @D0NTREPLY
    @D0NTREPLY 2 місяці тому +31

    marco the realest for crediting pierre on the menu.

  • @AJBTemplar
    @AJBTemplar 2 місяці тому +19

    What a treat. In essence the trotter is a sausage skin. Great to see the process and some good tips about the sweetbreads, morels and cooking liquor vs clean sauce. Pierre was very clear and to the point. Top class.

    • @onixtheone
      @onixtheone 2 місяці тому +2

      yeah good idea, maybe ill just make a sausage with all of the ingredients. and smoke it rather than steam it.

  • @ecdubytecdubyt
    @ecdubytecdubyt 2 місяці тому +21

    An iconic dish from a legendary chef. Thank you so much for sharing this. I didn't realize Chef Koffmann was such an excellent teacher as well. He explained each step nice and clearly. Thank you!

    • @BBCMaestro
      @BBCMaestro  Місяць тому +1

      Glad you like it!

    • @chrisyboy666
      @chrisyboy666 18 днів тому

      If anyone has trained or influenced more 3 Michelin star chefs I would be surprised

  • @cheft
    @cheft 2 місяці тому +37

    What a legendary dish from a master chef.

    • @sarutthaworanunta6726
      @sarutthaworanunta6726 2 місяці тому +1

      Yeah, definitely. Really enjoy to watch and he got some humor as well 🙂

  • @bloomard
    @bloomard 2 місяці тому +40

    @antichef would have benefitted from the sweetbread tip lol

    • @WatchKek
      @WatchKek 2 місяці тому +3

      I was thinking the same!

  • @deadliftyournan3293
    @deadliftyournan3293 2 місяці тому +4

    Genius chef, testament to Marco's integrity too the only one to credit maestro with his dish

  • @Harderbetterstronger00
    @Harderbetterstronger00 2 місяці тому +37

    Marco's favorite dish of all time!

    • @fakename6658
      @fakename6658 2 місяці тому

      Marco made some changes to it.

  • @gazoakleychef
    @gazoakleychef 2 місяці тому +12

    Master at work

  • @samgrant83
    @samgrant83 2 місяці тому +6

    So much cooking knowledge being imparted here. Bravo, and thank you chef Koffmann, and for the admission about the quality of UK dairy (even with the dig at single cream).

  • @Over_Lando
    @Over_Lando 2 місяці тому +3

    Wow !!! Never in my life did I ever think I would get to see him do this . Even if it’s on this video only but I can still say I saw the man do it

  • @fellspoint9364
    @fellspoint9364 2 місяці тому +5

    I had pickled pigs feet at JJ’s bar in East Baltimore while drinking Pabst Blue Ribbon beer.

  • @73BigMC
    @73BigMC 2 місяці тому +10

    Maestro indeed! One of the great dishes masterfully explained.

  • @kohala1815
    @kohala1815 Місяць тому +1

    Wow, so clear, detailed, and straightforward he convinced me that I could actually do this. He taught it so well that even though I watched it only once, I’m pretty sure I remember everything he said. Sourcing (and affording) the ingredients might be the bigger challenge. I mean: trotters (hind ones only!); a ton of veal stock (a pricey multi-day project in its own right); sweetbreads (only the good ones!); morels; and port, Madera, and cognac-twice! How much is this dish in a restaurant-$200? But hey, maybe one for the bucket list.
    Finally, I get his point about a clean sauce, but there’s GOTTA be a use for that braising stock. Oh, and I’d make some fat ravioli with the leftover sweetbreads and mousseline.

  • @danielholmqvist2713
    @danielholmqvist2713 22 дні тому +6

    The fact I get to watch this, what a gift. This is craftmanship at its best.
    Though, a thought I get is that it's not so much "zero waste" focused as modern cooking. Throwing small bits and pieces here and there and, while he does explain it, not using that delicious stock or showing how he saves it for later. I know he knows what he's doing, but it's a reaction I get after watching modern gastronomy focus so heavily on zero waste.

  • @BGRUBBIN
    @BGRUBBIN 2 місяці тому +4

    Having read Marco's book, I knew he would mention Marco's tribute to his dish.

  • @susanryman9948
    @susanryman9948 2 місяці тому +2

    He is adorable!! I’m in Texas and I’ve never eaten a trotter but would love to try! As a teacher he is clear and easy to follow steps. Thank you.

  • @__seeker__
    @__seeker__ 2 місяці тому

    Absolutely incredible. I am in awe. Thank you, Sir.

  • @Veritas419
    @Veritas419 2 місяці тому +12

    “Ask you butcher to do it”, lost count of how many times I’ve heard that one. Good luck finding a grocery that still carries trotters and has someone on staff that possesses the skill to skin a pigs foot.

    • @karohemd2426
      @karohemd2426 2 місяці тому +5

      You poor poor Americans. I'm lucky to live in a relatively small country like the UK where there are plenty of high street (and farm shop) butchers who break down whole pigs for their shops and will therefore have trotters. More than likely they won't be on the counter but you ask in advance, they'll keep them for you.

    • @relocatetoItaly
      @relocatetoItaly Місяць тому +1

      I live in Italy, found a small butcher who prepared them for me

  • @johnamaral6415
    @johnamaral6415 2 місяці тому +4

    I worked with Anthony Thompson in the Menage a Trois in 1982 and he was making pig trotters like that the only difference was the trotters was wrapped up in filo papers and also baked on the oven

  • @RataStuey
    @RataStuey 2 місяці тому +1

    This is an absolute joy to watch

  • @chad0x
    @chad0x 2 місяці тому +3

    Absolutely incredible. What a Master!

  • @shanedempsey9354
    @shanedempsey9354 2 місяці тому +2

    Legend. He is the source of many a top chef. Only love and respect 😊

  • @MrChefgiannis
    @MrChefgiannis 2 місяці тому

    Amazing dish!
    Thanks sharing your knowledge chef

  • @MuddyHelmutant
    @MuddyHelmutant 2 місяці тому +5

    I can hardly wait for the kosher version

  • @evilmrmole3747
    @evilmrmole3747 2 місяці тому

    you can tell he loves marco pierre white the way he talks about him in many of his videos, many thanks koffman for help make england what it is today culinary wise

  • @Nothing51337
    @Nothing51337 16 днів тому

    Marcos supreme respect for pierre is pure love between a mentor and apprentice. He showed marco how to be a true chef. If you read the book the devil in the kitchen by marco he details his time through the kitchens of the rouxs blanc and ladenis but when he speaks on Koffman it's with a sincere love and respect him and ladenis .

  • @stephanelariviere6298
    @stephanelariviere6298 2 місяці тому +1

    Such a great dish! Koffmann is an inspiration!

  • @miguelbascao3701
    @miguelbascao3701 2 місяці тому +2

    Marco Pierre White's favorite dish of all time!!!

  • @Dulc3B00kbyBrant0n
    @Dulc3B00kbyBrant0n 2 місяці тому +3

    this is great. very detailed

  • @travis650
    @travis650 2 місяці тому +4

    I have never seen the spine of a chef knife used as a honing stick. Damn that's
    clutch.

  • @dilorraine5994
    @dilorraine5994 Місяць тому

    I had the good fortune to eat this amazing dish in Sydney years ago,watching this master chef who created it,I’m reminded that it is the best meal I’ve ever had

  • @geronimopink309
    @geronimopink309 2 місяці тому +2

    This is pure gold

  • @raptorattack
    @raptorattack 2 місяці тому +3

    Exceptionnelle! Humble trotter to haut cuisine 🤤

  • @oakleyducati1
    @oakleyducati1 Місяць тому

    This was such a religious experience to watch the legend himself make the dish he invented. Such skill, easy to follow (surely not easy to make!), and a pleasure to watch.

  • @seigouginhaokip911
    @seigouginhaokip911 Місяць тому

    Amazing. Just so kind!

  • @CRD250
    @CRD250 2 місяці тому +2

    The legend makes his legendary dish!

  • @seigliere1
    @seigliere1 19 днів тому

    I had the chance to eat this dish in his restaurant in the very early 1980’s with my best friend.
    45 years later I have just sent this to still my best friend and asked him if he remembers.
    As an anecdote, at the end of the meal we decided on an Armagnac each. The trolley came and we were offered about 4 vintage Armagnacs.
    Not wanting to spend so much money my friend asked if they didn’t have anything else, hoping for a non vintage ordinary one.
    Instead the waiter brought out another two bottles of Armagnac.
    “ Yes sir, we have a 1937 and a 1922”!!

  • @eoinbyrne9538
    @eoinbyrne9538 Місяць тому

    The master, the icon and a LEGEND in the world of Gastronomy. He trained my personal favourite chef; Marco Pierre White. But I have always admired the finesse, attention to detail and the style of Chef Koffmann. Superb.

  • @theodore6548
    @theodore6548 24 дні тому

    A brilliant master class. Such a great teacher.

  • @chicchitammuottocifa
    @chicchitammuottocifa 2 місяці тому +5

    This dish helped create gastronomy in the UK

  • @karohemd2426
    @karohemd2426 2 місяці тому

    I had this dish (and the other two famous Koffmann staples, squid "bolognaise" and pistachio souffle) at Koffmann's at The Berkeley 11 years ago. Absolutely blown away but I basically rolled out of the door. Not something you'd eat every day. It is very rich and you get 50/50 potato/butter mash, too. This could only have been topped by meeting Pierre but sadly he was not in that day.
    I consider myself a competent home cook but this sort of fiddly process I am very happy to pay professionals for. :)

  • @englishwillable
    @englishwillable 21 день тому

    By far and away the most complex dish I’ve ever witnessed

  • @user-yw5yw8ip1k
    @user-yw5yw8ip1k 2 місяці тому +2

    Anyone else’s OCD triggered but that second stove top burning the whole time? 🔥 hahaha

  • @dpie4859
    @dpie4859 22 дні тому

    Wonderful to watch. This is one of the most complicated dishes i have ever seen.

  • @SnedzTheBricklayer
    @SnedzTheBricklayer 24 дні тому

    it is unbelievable how steady that mans hands are when saucing the dish 😮

  • @albzist
    @albzist 2 місяці тому +3

    imagine being taught all of his dishes in his kitchen

    • @BBCMaestro
      @BBCMaestro  Місяць тому +1

      His cooking course with us may help you get that one step closer! bbcm.co/4b0sh1K

  • @Onionbaron
    @Onionbaron 2 місяці тому +1

    Love it!

  • @edwardquan
    @edwardquan 22 дні тому

    I really wish I got to visit Pierre Koffmann's restaurant in London before it closed - I was lucky enough to visit Joel Robuchon's restaurant before he passed and it was a thing of beauty. Pierre is seminal in the culinary world.
    Edit: Pierre's got asbestos fingers!

  • @Jaded29
    @Jaded29 Місяць тому +1

    Never had the pleasure of trying this dish before but I know without tasting it’s delicious

  • @coolinari
    @coolinari 7 днів тому

    this video is so amazing!

  • @alexvincent4465
    @alexvincent4465 2 місяці тому +1

    Best possible content

  • @twangology
    @twangology 2 місяці тому +1

    Master Class!

  • @sreejayabhattacharjeegodfr3323
    @sreejayabhattacharjeegodfr3323 25 днів тому

    Love it! Thank you

  • @gary
    @gary 2 місяці тому +2

    Cheers Marco!!!

  • @edwardkornuszko4083
    @edwardkornuszko4083 Місяць тому

    Thank you. God bless you

  • @mrmeat4607
    @mrmeat4607 2 місяці тому +1

    This brings me back to watching Marco make this at Harvey's. With Gordon in the background ofc.

  • @Bruno-rm4zq
    @Bruno-rm4zq 2 місяці тому +1

    what a master class

  • @stewartwaine6351
    @stewartwaine6351 21 день тому

    Legendary dish

  • @111usul
    @111usul 2 місяці тому +1

    masterful.

  • @moludrums1032
    @moludrums1032 2 місяці тому +1

    Grande Maestro !

  • @FoodandArmwrestling
    @FoodandArmwrestling 2 місяці тому +1

    Pierre Koffman: Marcos ❤️ Pig Trotter A La Pierre Koffmann ! 🎉
    One of the greatest mentors of Marcos !

  • @petricaangold5000
    @petricaangold5000 25 днів тому

    This looks so yummy!!!"I would love to taste it!! 😊

  • @stevenmajewski3870
    @stevenmajewski3870 2 місяці тому +1

    perfect!

  • @paoeduardo2052
    @paoeduardo2052 2 місяці тому +2

    Salute Pierre!

  • @luisoneillteixeira
    @luisoneillteixeira 2 місяці тому +1

    This is what we call heritage

  • @protopigeon
    @protopigeon Місяць тому

    Amazing chef and dish. Would really liked to have seen him slice and eat it though!

  • @hezaozao
    @hezaozao 2 місяці тому +12

    this one is for the history book

  • @christopherrichardwadedett4100
    @christopherrichardwadedett4100 Місяць тому

    Art and science (with a dash of genius) in the spirit of Michelangelo!

  • @colinjohnson8511
    @colinjohnson8511 Місяць тому

    Legend !

  • @putradnyana
    @putradnyana 2 місяці тому +1

    delicious

  • @sirwilliams3885
    @sirwilliams3885 2 місяці тому +2

    Note to all .. the first rule in cooking is always when cooking especially in the oven use a dry rag to grab pots and you minimize the chance of burning your hands like our friend here did twice..

  • @kevinjones4001
    @kevinjones4001 2 місяці тому +1

    This is hilarious to me the my dad’s side of the family grew up eating pigs feet, ham hocks and pig ears.

  • @terrywatkins907
    @terrywatkins907 2 місяці тому +1

    Pigs trotters - my dog would enjoy them

  • @karu6111
    @karu6111 2 місяці тому +1

    When I watched Marco make this I thought sweetbreads were literal bread lol

  • @durian830317
    @durian830317 2 місяці тому +2

    Marco is a sweet man

  • @xgrumx
    @xgrumx 2 місяці тому +1

    Pancreas and pig trotters what a dish 🙏🏽 those flavours and that spirit combo veal stock and morels this dish must taste heavenly

    • @Cycaszamia
      @Cycaszamia Місяць тому

      Where did you see pancreas???

    • @Cycaszamia
      @Cycaszamia Місяць тому

      Pancreas is never eaten neither in France nor anywhere else, I think. Except may be by dogs in their barfing mix ...

    • @Cycaszamia
      @Cycaszamia Місяць тому

      Sweetbread is the thymus gland

  • @2000yearOldYogiAspirant
    @2000yearOldYogiAspirant 2 місяці тому

    Here from the other youtuber who made this following a cookbook, interesting to see perhaps better execution

  • @konstantinivanov1986
    @konstantinivanov1986 25 днів тому

    Finally we got the the whole recipe from the master. And the trotter looks like a miniature pig.

  • @jesperwall839
    @jesperwall839 Місяць тому +1

    This is food for real 👍🤤😀

  • @dwaitch
    @dwaitch 13 днів тому

    Someday, someday!

  • @r7coo
    @r7coo 2 місяці тому +2

    This is the one dish I want to eat before I shuffle off this mortal coil !

  • @joelcasemore648
    @joelcasemore648 2 місяці тому +1

    I eat this dish at Harvey's in the nineties when Marco had 1 star Michelin

  • @foetusdeletus6313
    @foetusdeletus6313 2 місяці тому +1

    Could someone tell me why chefs who worked in the UK always double tap their knives after cutting?
    Never seen anyone else do it before they went to work in the UK.

  • @felixarbable
    @felixarbable 2 місяці тому +7

    using gas like its 2021

  • @ryansmith2249
    @ryansmith2249 Місяць тому +1

    He’s also way out of practice deboning the trotter. Back in the day he’d just hold the trotter in 1 hand and literally just pull the skin off. Nobody does it as fast as he did. We all tried and failed.😂

  • @DerrickWhittle-mm7jz
    @DerrickWhittle-mm7jz 29 днів тому

    Lovely, I am from the UK but live in Cincy OH. Pig trotters in a supermarket no, but still one old style market. Yes today but marjet is becoming very trendy quail eggs Wague beef etc.

  • @123tickettoride
    @123tickettoride 2 місяці тому

    the great master

  • @markmower6507
    @markmower6507 2 місяці тому +1

    I am a Chef in the U.S. and have never heard of this. Part of me is Afraid to find out. Now back to the Video...

    • @user-jk5um1om8l
      @user-jk5um1om8l 2 місяці тому

      Chinese cuisine does something similar - soy sauce braised pig trotters. The umami and depth of flavor is out of this world. Extremely rich with the fat and collagen in the leg.

    • @markmower6507
      @markmower6507 2 місяці тому

      @@user-jk5um1om8l I get you on depth of flavor. Maybe even add toasted Sesame and a good fish sauce teriyaki sauce pineapple juice and rum, go Nuts figuring out different good flavor combinations. But me I would just do it with pork Tenderloin and Or Ribs. OH and me personally Mine would be Spicy, Habanero and Scorpion Peppers spicy 🔥🔥🔥🔥. Not Carolina Reaper or Pepper X Spicy 🌶️🌶️🌶️🌶️🌶️🌶️🌶️🌶️🌶️🌶️. Hahahahahahahaha 😂!!!

    • @markmower6507
      @markmower6507 2 місяці тому

      @@user-jk5um1om8l Oh, and Chinese 5 Spice. It is very good and some people are unfamiliar with it but I like it. But I think that a little goes a long way...

  • @lepetitchat123
    @lepetitchat123 2 місяці тому +4

    Nobody would seriously want to make this at home lol

  • @Buzzcook
    @Buzzcook 2 місяці тому +1

    So it looks like sweetbreads and mushrooms wrapped in pigs skin. Do the trotters add to the dish?

  • @tititichirca8250
    @tititichirca8250 2 місяці тому +1

    Now i must find Marco 's version of it

    • @fakename6658
      @fakename6658 2 місяці тому

      ua-cam.com/video/YxKapTiEYxI/v-deo.htmlsi=ZpHZtTa79omxQzxU
      Starts at around 6 minute mark.

  • @2nd_ntr
    @2nd_ntr 2 місяці тому

    @antichef we need a part 2!

  • @AMan-xy3lx
    @AMan-xy3lx Місяць тому

    Considering trotters taste amazing boiled in water and salt, I can only imagine the flavour in this.