Perhaps better think twice about what system you really need to have. The auxilliary rudder system uses the weak power of the wind not only to move the auxilliary rudder itself but also the mentioned gearbox with a lot of friction. So in weak appearent winds it won't work well, especially in condions with weak following winds. And even more so with big following seas, where the power of the waves will more push the auxilliary rudder, and via the rudder the windvane than the other way. Whereas a servopendulum rudder system uses the same weak force of the wind only to turn the angle of the servo rudder, and the force of the waterflow on the servo rudder produces the necessary force to turn the main rudder of the boat. This servo rudder force is quite big. At a speed of only 5 knots about 300 pounds of thrust for an Aries. At 6 or seven knots accordingly even more. And this force turns the main rudder, which is much bigger than any auxilliary rudder, so it will correct the heading of the boat more promptly than any auxilliary rudder system. So a servopendulum system will work better in weak following winds due to less friction and the bigger force of streaming water (higher density) compared to the weaker force of airflow (lower density). And with higher wind speed and higher boat speed it's efficency will further increase. And the emergency rudder argument is also quite doubtable. A force, that destroys the main rudder (a tree in the water or an orca) will certainly destroy the much more lightly built auxilliary rudder as well. Especially if it has, like the Hydrovane, sheerpins to avoid seroius damage when hitting an obstacle in the water. So an emergency rudder should always be purpously built, big and strong enough to steer the boat in rough conditions and separatly stowed. There was once a study of Jimmy Cornell about the user satisfaction and the actual using time of windvane selfsteering systems of the participants of the Transatlantic Rallye for Cruisers. The difference between servopendulum rudder and auxilliary rudder systems was quite significant. This said after some tenthousands of miles of offshore sailing with an Aries and without ever touching the tiller outside the harbour. And planning to now buying a Windpilot Pacific light for my Allegro 27.
Excellent description. The best one by far; even better than the hydrovane company’s in-house videos!! We just purchased a boat in the Sea of Cortez with a Hydrovane system and we were freaking out about not knowing how to use it. Your video made us not only less nervous but also excited to give it a go!! Thank you!
The most understandable explanation for something that has always puzzled me as to the disadvantages or benefits of either. Now I completely understand how they work but it has convinced me that I should buy a hydrovane rather than building one in my shop. Time well saved I think.
Fantastic explanation! This actually explains how it works in useful terms, other videos just discuss mechanics and other nonsense that is irrelevant. Thank you!
I have only raced as "Crew" on sloops of all sizes and done very little bay, near shore, or open ocean (well, San Diego to Catalina and back) sailing. I have seen these devices and wondered how they worked as the UA-cams I watch they seem to work outstanding with a Captain of even just a little experience. I have had no clue HOW they work. This was *Perfect* explanation as for a non-technical person I understood it the first time through this UA-cam. Thank you, Thank you! You would make a great Sailing Professor! I just subscribed.
i have no idea about anything nautical but this was an excellent explanation, makes me want to buy a hydravane because of the mechanics of it. The only place i can install it would be on the roof of the house as an piece of kinetic sculptural artwork and watch it when there is enough wind. Magic Happens!
Yep, outstanding explanation. I've been on a boat with a Hydrovane; however, we motored so often and had seven aboard, so watches were easy to maintain with just the autopilot, so I never got a chance to really play with the vane to learn how it worked. Thanks. That makes complete sense.
Add me to the legions who finally are able to get our minds around this mysterious black magic that windvanes have always been to us… best video by FAR in explaining this in a way even I can understand.
Perfect explanation! No further questions, your honor haha! :D I saw some of these used in articles in National Geographic Magazine when I was a kid and I've wondered how these possibly could work??? I can sleep better now, thank you very much!
I’m so glad I have found your channel,wow as a future single hander I need this info,subbing just on the strength of this vid and your tutorial,thank you Sir from oz and have a safe Xmas.
Wow very comprehensible explanation thank you very much Don 🙏 I have a Aries installed on the 43f Ketch I have boat to sail around the world ☺️ still haven't sailed it yet but hopefully soon 💪⛵🤩⛵😍🌍🐼❤️
Good explanation Don. I've always though a servo pendulum would be more responsive as you're using the power of the water (much denser and higher forces) to amplify wind movements and move the real rudder - which has been designed to turn the boat adequately, but, as you say, more complex and can't be used as an emergency rudder. Windvanes generally have a toughest job going downwind in conditions like the GGR have had this last week don't they? The effective wind is less (less force on the wind paddle). So, when doing 8kts through the water with 18 kts of true wind you only have 10 kts of effective wind to move the wind paddle, but you have large forces required to change course at 8 kts through the water!
Wind vanes are an excellent extra pair of hands to steer your boat. The Scanmar Monitor and Hydrovane wind vanes are built heavy-duty and owners of both companies provide great customer service.
Baie dankie/ Merci beaucoup/ Seht Danke. You explained it very good. The flip-flop-Windvane is most likely the cheaper one of the two types. Thanx a mil.
I had a Windpilot pacific plus on my Swan 38. It did a good job in moderate winds but got overpowered in stronger winds if not on the wind. (A Swan 38 will sail itself on the wind) I often used a small electronic tiller unit to drive the Windpilot in light winds. I had an Aries wind vane on my Carter 30. Very strong but often hard to balance the boat due to the fin keel/IOR hull design.
A very simple and elegant design but has no servo rudder like the monitor, not to say I am not considering the unit. Con is that when the boat falls off the wave in large seas as happened to us twice during our Pacific crossing with bare poles doing hull speed there is little to no yaw correction to prevent broaching risks. The monitor did a damn good job to keep us on track with 10-meter waves and plus 60 kts which blew for 12 hours en route into Tahiti. The sheer power of the boat being pushed sideways is corrected by the servo rudder instantly.
Great race, great videos. Fantastic coverage, thank you Don. Has there been a comparison done between Monitor and other servo pendulum systems? Pros and cons? Where might we find that?
How do you prevent a Jordan series drogue getting caught around and ripping off the rudder of the auxiliary rudder system when deployed? Given that you wouldn't go into the Southern Ocean without a Jordan series drogue, surely a servo pendulum type windvane where you can raise the windvane's rudder out of the way of the Jordan series drogue's bridles prior to deployment of the drogue would be a far better and safer choice
Good explanation thanks. So, just saying, if the wind vane is set up to steer 270 degrees with abeam reach and eventually the wind changes, now, assuming nobody touches the helm, would the vessel position itself to the new wind direction and get out of course?
Great video mate explain well always set the vain to the wind Direction neural then it will keep your corse I fly planes same with wind drift and correcting dead reckoning
Hydro vane system may be very good But there is a limit to the size a vessel they will steer. my self I brought and fitted to my CT47 and soon found that it was for too small to steer my vessel in any sort of conditions, the size of the hrydro vanes rudder compared to the CT47 rudder is about 20% and to expect this very small rudder to steer a 47 foot 15 ton vessel we are dreaming. These hyydro vanes will only steer vessels Max 42 feet. This is contary to what I was lead to believe. and was disappointed with my Purchase it was just too small for the job.
Great explanation, but I'm left with one more question: how do you "switch off" the wind vanes? I suspect pulling it out of the water is too much of a hassle. Can it be locked in a neutral position or so, if you don't want to use it? Thanks
Is a windpilot pacific plus, with rudder and pendelum in one machine, more sensitive and steers in lighter winds than Hydrovane or the pendelum that use the boat tiller/rudder?
Thanks Don. One question in regards to redundancy - If the ships’ rudder fails, or is damaged, can the pendulum vane be locked in place to make the vane a servo rudder?
My take on this is that you generally prefer the hydrovane. However is one type more adapted to a certain type of boat eg fin keel, long keel, or is it the same advantage across the board?
I have a long deep straight keel,,,when on a course, my rudder is sometimes a little to either port or stabd permanently ,,,,QUESTION,,,,Does the boats rudder have to be centred or tied off a little to port or stbd,,,,,or should the boats rudder be centred at all times when using the vane.
james wyatt Just Balance the sails as best you can, then steer the boat with he rudder and lock the rudder in place. The Hydrovane will add the little bit of rudder necessary to sail the boat on course....
![Cape Horn Wind Vane Complete Installation - [Uma Gear Review]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yaqW0EYF20I/mqdefault.jpg)
At last, someone who has explained how a wind vane works for thick people like me👏😀
Cheers,
Paul.
I agree wholeheartedly!
Best explanation I've seen by far of both systems. Thank you! Looks like I need an auxiliary rudder system.
Perhaps better think twice about what system you really need to have.
The auxilliary rudder system uses the weak power of the wind not only to move the auxilliary rudder itself but also the mentioned gearbox with a lot of friction. So in weak appearent winds it won't work well, especially in condions with weak following winds. And even more so with big following seas, where the power of the waves will more push the auxilliary rudder, and via the rudder the windvane than the other way. Whereas a servopendulum rudder system uses the same weak force of the wind only to turn the angle of the servo rudder, and the force of the waterflow on the servo rudder produces the necessary force to turn the main rudder of the boat. This servo rudder force is quite big. At a speed of only 5 knots about 300 pounds of thrust for an Aries. At 6 or seven knots accordingly even more. And this force turns the main rudder, which is much bigger than any auxilliary rudder, so it will correct the heading of the boat more promptly than any auxilliary rudder system. So a servopendulum system will work better in weak following winds due to less friction and the bigger force of streaming water (higher density) compared to the weaker force of airflow (lower density). And with higher wind speed and higher boat speed it's efficency will further increase. And the emergency rudder argument is also quite doubtable. A force, that destroys the main rudder (a tree in the water or an orca) will certainly destroy the much more lightly built auxilliary rudder as well. Especially if it has, like the Hydrovane, sheerpins to avoid seroius damage when hitting an obstacle in the water. So an emergency rudder should always be purpously built, big and strong enough to steer the boat in rough conditions and separatly stowed.
There was once a study of Jimmy Cornell about the user satisfaction and the actual using time of windvane selfsteering systems of the participants of the Transatlantic Rallye for Cruisers. The difference between servopendulum rudder and auxilliary rudder systems was quite significant. This said after some tenthousands of miles of offshore sailing with an Aries and without ever touching the tiller outside the harbour. And planning to now buying a Windpilot Pacific light for my Allegro 27.
Excellent description. The best one by far; even better than the hydrovane company’s in-house videos!! We just purchased a boat in the Sea of Cortez with a Hydrovane system and we were freaking out about not knowing how to use it. Your video made us not only less nervous but also excited to give it a go!! Thank you!
Thanks a lot for your amazing explanations making a fairly complex topic so easy to understand. You really do know how to make things clear.
The most understandable explanation for something that has always puzzled me as to the disadvantages or benefits of either. Now I completely understand how they work but it has convinced me that I should buy a hydrovane rather than building one in my shop. Time well saved I think.
Fantastic explanation! This actually explains how it works in useful terms, other videos just discuss mechanics and other nonsense that is irrelevant. Thank you!
I have only raced as "Crew" on sloops of all sizes and done very little bay, near shore, or open ocean (well, San Diego to Catalina and back) sailing. I have seen these devices and wondered how they worked as the UA-cams I watch they seem to work outstanding with a Captain of even just a little experience. I have had no clue HOW they work. This was *Perfect* explanation as for a non-technical person I understood it the first time through this UA-cam. Thank you, Thank you! You would make a great Sailing Professor! I just subscribed.
i have no idea about anything nautical but this was an excellent explanation, makes me want to buy a hydravane because of the mechanics of it. The only place i can install it would be on the roof of the house as an piece of kinetic sculptural artwork and watch it when there is enough wind. Magic Happens!
Well I have to say that was an amazing explanation and I now understand what I thought was a too complex idea to understand.
Thank you Don love it!
As a simple dingy sailor looking to progress to cruising this was invaluable Don. Thanks. 👍
Sir, you explain that perfectly. Best part started at 12 minut. Thank you.
Great explanation. I definitely like the Hydrovane System! It seems so much simpler and easier to adjust!
May you fare well, Nabil.
Thanks Don, for such a thorough yet succinct and thorough explanation.
Excellent demonstration of BOTH types!
Yep, outstanding explanation. I've been on a boat with a Hydrovane; however, we motored so often and had seven aboard, so watches were easy to maintain with just the autopilot, so I never got a chance to really play with the vane to learn how it worked. Thanks. That makes complete sense.
Thank you for taking time to expain the operation, Don.
You are successful because now i understand the vane's basic principles!
B marvellous explanation Don. Thank,you so much. Could not be clearer 🙂
I m looking at the CAPHORN wind vane , different design and has very positive reviews.
Great video with the info being presented in easy to understand terms, thankyou.
Fantastic explanation. Very clear and logical.
Thanks for your time
Add me to the legions who finally are able to get our minds around this mysterious black magic that windvanes have always been to us… best video by FAR in explaining this in a way even I can understand.
This is just the video I was looking for. Wind vanes for dummies!
Thanks, very clear explanation! I like you were using your hands to help us imagine the situation.
Perfect explanation! No further questions, your honor haha! :D
I saw some of these used in articles in National Geographic Magazine when I was a kid and I've wondered how these possibly could work??? I can sleep better now, thank you very much!
I’m so glad I have found your channel,wow as a future single hander I need this info,subbing just on the strength of this vid and your tutorial,thank you Sir from oz and have a safe Xmas.
that's all ... now i am ready to sail the seven seas😍
Wow very comprehensible explanation thank you very much Don 🙏 I have a Aries installed on the 43f Ketch I have boat to sail around the world ☺️ still haven't sailed it yet but hopefully soon 💪⛵🤩⛵😍🌍🐼❤️
Oh thank you. Perfect explanation that I could understand. The money moment for me was when you pretended yr arms were the vane.
.
Very well explained, thank you! A lot of respect to the people that designed these - geniuses!
Wow ,super informative, good to understand how it works .Many thanks
Thnks for a very comprehensive explanation. Keep up the great works,
Good explanation Don.
I've always though a servo pendulum would be more responsive as you're using the power of the water (much denser and higher forces) to amplify wind movements and move the real rudder - which has been designed to turn the boat adequately, but, as you say, more complex and can't be used as an emergency rudder.
Windvanes generally have a toughest job going downwind in conditions like the GGR have had this last week don't they? The effective wind is less (less force on the wind paddle). So, when doing 8kts through the water with 18 kts of true wind you only have 10 kts of effective wind to move the wind paddle, but you have large forces required to change course at 8 kts through the water!
Servo pendulum or aux rudder. Thanks for mentioning the brand names such as Hydrovane, Aries, Wind Pilot and Monitor Got it! Excellent summary!!
Great stuff. A clear explanation of the two systems.
And another self steering system is where the wind vane deflects a trim tab on the trailing edge of the rudder.
Best video I've seen that explains how these work
Wow great explain.
I would love you to do a comparison between the two systems and include a practical session underway under different headings.
Thak you, the best explanation so far
Thank you. I have wondered about this for quite some time. Again, Thank you.
Thank you so much, what an explanation. Just perfect.
Thanks,,a real instructor ,,,make it so clear and easy,,
Wind vanes are an excellent extra pair of hands to steer your boat. The Scanmar Monitor and Hydrovane wind vanes are built heavy-duty and owners of both companies provide great customer service.
thank you for the helpful explanation and video!
Excellent explanation, thank you
A very good explanation, thanks
What a great explanation,I now understand it fully Thank You .I wonder what part Suzie will need when she gets to Hobart ,
Man I have learned so much following along this race!
Great explanation. Helped me understand what's going on. Thanks.
Excellent explanation.
Baie dankie/ Merci beaucoup/ Seht Danke. You explained it very good. The flip-flop-Windvane is most likely the cheaper one of the two types. Thanx a mil.
Best exp;anation Ive ever heard. Thanks!
Very clearly well explained. Thankyou
Obrigado , valeu sua live sobre leme de vento 🙏☺️ muito bom 😃
Thanks for the video. Makes great sense!
Great tutorial, finally understand how it works 😊
Great explanation, thanks!
I had a Windpilot pacific plus on my Swan 38. It did a good job in moderate winds but got overpowered in stronger winds if not on the wind. (A Swan 38 will sail itself on the wind) I often used a small electronic tiller unit to drive the Windpilot in light winds. I had an Aries wind vane on my Carter 30. Very strong but often hard to balance the boat due to the fin keel/IOR hull design.
A very simple and elegant design but has no servo rudder like the monitor, not to say I am not considering the unit. Con is that when the boat falls off the wave in large seas as happened to us twice during our Pacific crossing with bare poles doing hull speed there is little to no yaw correction to prevent broaching risks. The monitor did a damn good job to keep us on track with 10-meter waves and plus 60 kts which blew for 12 hours en route into Tahiti. The sheer power of the boat being pushed sideways is corrected by the servo rudder instantly.
It seems to be the auxiliary system has less moving parts, while providing a backup steering system.
Great race, great videos. Fantastic coverage, thank you Don. Has there been a comparison done between Monitor and other servo pendulum systems? Pros and cons? Where might we find that?
Very goog explanation. Tks ⛵⛵
Wow, you just explained it in a way that made me understand it much more thoroughly. Until recently, I figured windvanes were powered by magic. lol
Thanks. Very helpful ☺️
Brilliant explanation thanks.
Thank you, very nice and clear explanation.
This is the best explanation ever !!!
Fantastic thanks! Well explained.
Finally, I understand. Thanks
Thanks great explanation
i got 75 to 80 % understand how it works, thanks
thanks for the clear explanations!
How do you prevent a Jordan series drogue getting caught around and ripping off the rudder of the auxiliary rudder system when deployed? Given that you wouldn't go into the Southern Ocean without a Jordan series drogue, surely a servo pendulum type windvane where you can raise the windvane's rudder out of the way of the Jordan series drogue's bridles prior to deployment of the drogue would be a far better and safer choice
Nice vid. Very helpful. Thanks!
Very well explained. Thank you.
Good job on windvane discussion
Very good explanation except for one thing: is flip port and flop starboard or is it visa versa?
Nice explanation!
Aux Rudder does not have to be centered so you can still use you swim ladder. But it also does not lift out of the water when not un use.
SO, what are the advantages and disadvantages of each system. Obviously, the rudder type can be used as an emergency rudder, but what else?
Thanks for this well done explanation 😀👍
Good explanation thanks. So, just saying, if the wind vane is set up to steer 270 degrees with abeam reach and eventually the wind changes, now, assuming nobody touches the helm, would the vessel position itself to the new wind direction and get out of course?
Mach Tuck yes if the wind changes , the boats direction- compass course, will change to maintain the same apparent wind angle.....
@@edwardfinn4141 Thank you, thats a great invention!
That was really helpful, thank you
Great video mate explain well always set the vain to the wind Direction neural then it will keep your corse I fly planes same with wind drift and correcting dead reckoning
Well explained, thanks
Ty, very informative
Hydro vane system may be very good But there is a limit to the size a vessel they will steer. my self I brought and fitted to my CT47 and soon found that it was for too small to steer my vessel in any sort of conditions, the size of the hrydro vanes rudder compared to the CT47 rudder is about 20% and to expect this very small rudder to steer a 47 foot 15 ton vessel we are dreaming. These hyydro vanes will only steer vessels Max 42 feet. This is contary to what I was lead to believe. and was disappointed with my Purchase it was just too small for the job.
Great Explanation!
Great explanation, but I'm left with one more question: how do you "switch off" the wind vanes? I suspect pulling it out of the water is too much of a hassle. Can it be locked in a neutral position or so, if you don't want to use it? Thanks
yes you just lock the windvane verticle and the rudder tracks behind....
EXCELLENT information
Is a windpilot pacific plus, with rudder and pendelum in one machine, more sensitive and steers in lighter winds than Hydrovane or the pendelum that use the boat tiller/rudder?
Thanks Don. One question in regards to redundancy - If the ships’ rudder fails, or is damaged, can the pendulum vane be locked in place to make the vane a servo rudder?
One dumb question here, with the wind vane installed do you still have to trim/adjust the sails?
Great video. Thanks
Great explanation! Just what I was looking for, thanks a lot Don! May I ask you another thing? What was the problem with Kevin's Hidrovane?
nothing...he just had to get a better feel for it and he wanted to head to the mountains.!
My take on this is that you generally prefer the hydrovane. However is one type more adapted to a certain type of boat eg fin keel, long keel, or is it the same advantage across the board?
Don was a dealer for Hydrovane and they were an exclusive sponsor of the race. Other manufactures cried foul!
well done thank you, next time please do something with that microphone :-)
Is there a size limit on boats that can use the auxiliary rudder system?
I have a long deep straight keel,,,when on a course, my rudder is sometimes a little to either port or stabd permanently ,,,,QUESTION,,,,Does the boats rudder have to be centred or tied off a little to port or stbd,,,,,or should the boats rudder be centred at all times when using the vane.
james wyatt Just
Balance the sails as best you can, then steer the boat with he rudder and lock the rudder in place.
The Hydrovane will add the little bit of rudder necessary to sail the boat on course....
Great video. Does it work just as well close hauled? That is up wind.
caspar works even better upwind close hauled....