Michigan's Sign Stealing "Evidence" Almost Seems Too Obvious To Be Real | Pat McAfee Reacts
Вставка
- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- Welcome to The Pat McAfee Show LIVE from Noon-3PM EST Mon-Fri. You can also find us live on ESPN, ESPN+, & TikTok!
Become a #McAfeeMafia member! / @thepatmcafeeshow
SUBSCRIBE:
/ @thepatmcafeeshow
MERCH: store.patmcafe...
Subscribe to the Pat McAfee Show(s)!
@Hammer Dahn
@Thats Hockey Talk
@The Pod
@The Pat McAfee Show
MERCH: store.patmcafe...
SPONSOR THE SHOW: www.patmcafees...
#PatMcAfee #NFL
The bald guy Pat is asking about at 11:00 is Ben Herbert, who is Michigan’s Strength and Conditioning director. He’s a fixture on the sideline at each Michigan game.
I remember Jim talking about Herbert in an interview. He was talking about hiring him and he said “shakes your hand, leans in, looking right through your soul. I got to the point where ‘I can not look at you anymore! I must avert my gaze!’” Jim actually called Herbert his best ever coaching hire.
Helped change the culture in the program
And that is is at-rest face. Heck, he might even be asleep in that photo.
Dude.. Props to Matt Rhule for that straight up answer.. He could totally throw Jim under the bus for this but took the high road and called out the BS of the rules
Facts
It doesn't matter if the rule i BS or not - it's a rule and they must be followed. To sit here and say "Ah this rule is BS, no one should have to follow it" is BS in itself. It clearly shows you are big Michigan homer incapable of an unbiased opinion.
@@Mox3712 No I don’t cheer for Michigan at all.. Keep it up internet detective
In real life, we get to break the rules then say, hey, "they are stupid", what moronic take.
Because he knows the Rhules
Born and raised in Ohio. Lifelong buckeye fan, cousin was team captain the year woody Hayes punched out the Clemson player. This is bs, we need to get rid of the ncaa and get a college football commissioner. Stop giving that team up north a hard time over hamburgers and what not. College football is better with harbaugh and they are going to push him back to the nfl.
Disagree. Sure, change the rules if you'd like. Add technology for play calling. However at this point in time it is still against the rules to do this and it obvious that Michigan has been breaking that rule and unless someone provides evidence that every one of their opponents have been doing the same thing then what they did was an unfair advantage. Some people like to speculate that Michigan would have won all those games anyway but we have no way of knowing that.
It's important to remember that Harbaugh and Michigan wasn't the smoothest running program in the conference. They were struggling to beat Ohio State and Hargaugh often shot himself in the foot to lose games. Michigan was about to run him out of Ann Arbor. Suddenly they've flipped a switch like Harbaugh sold his soul or something.
I'm a Michigan guy and I know what you are saying, but rules are rules. Yes, the NCAA does have a hard-on for Coach Harbaugh and what would not be a big deal at another school is always a big deal wherever JH is involved. No disrespect to OSU for bringing this up but the NCAA screwed them when it came to the tattoos and the selling of "tokens" that OSU would give to players that beat UM and it just reenforces the BS factor. Michigan is a cash cow for the B1G and NCAA and the rivalry between OSU and UM is the best in the country right now so I'm not seeing a whole lot being done about this. If it is true and obvious cheating, UM should be punished just for being dumb enough to get caught!
@@kenbrown5449 honestly, I don't think OSU reported it initially. It was a bit of an open secret that they had guys in stadiums around the B1G. This wouldn't be a big deal *in the media* if it was any other school, but you can bet they'd be all over UCLA or Boston College about it; we'd just never hear about it until it was over. Jim's problem, it seems, is that when he doesn't like a rule he just breaks it. Which would be fine if he was actually good at not getting caught, but he does.
@@ScottCleve33 It's not obvious that Michigan has been breaking the rules, where is your evidence. UM struggled to beat OSU, because OSU was cheating. Why were your last two head coaches fired? OSU has been running a program so dirty, that it would make an SEC bagman blush!
@@ScottCleve33 I agree. This is the key - "unless someone provides evidence that every one of their opponents have been doing the same thing". Several commentators have been claiming that what Michigan did is OK because 'everyone does it', but none of them provided any proof of that. As if cheating is OK if others do it too!
What I find interesting is that ESPN released a statement that he bought tickets directly across from both teams in the Penn State game. The tickets were not used. Does it not make sense that he did not show once it was announced he may have been caught?
Or osu doing sketchy things?
@@YooperHatesOhioState lmfao how? Don't try to make this anyone elses fault, this is all on harbooger and that team up north
@@ayeejaayy5848 don’t u guys have the most arrested players in the country? LMAO! I remained when meyer cheated in 2018 and also osu cheated in 2020
@@YooperHatesOhioStatei like how you just threw this onto osu like they’re the ones being investigated 😭
@@NathanBattig they will be trust me
Honestly the realest take I've heard. And Matt Rule makes a really good point. Why the hell does CFL keep voting against using technology instead of using all the stupid signs?
Because any good hacker can hack your system and figure out the plays that way. If they move to technology expect cases of hacking to be a regular occurrence.
@@ReginaldFormanIt’s the same tech the NFL uses. Haven’t heard of any hacking issues there.
@@jamied9782the Patriots have done it for years. They also jam the opponent’s head sets.
@@ReginaldFormanNFL systems don't get hacked.🤷
@@yankees29 Oh is that why they're 2 and 5 this year? clown
But what sits in the back of your mind is that Harbaugh never beat OSU and was losing 4-5 games a year with only one bowl win from 2015 thru 2020. Then all the sudden, they are a top 5 team, not just beating OSU but winning convincingly. Yet, they still lost all three bowl games to lesser opponents - teams that Stalions didn't buy tickets to scout from the sidelines.
You nailed it! You should be a prosecuting attorney, there is no getting anything past you. Teams never evolve, they never get better caliber of players, opponents never have down cycles...unreal!
When they lost to Georgia it looked like the long break in between the Big 10 Championship game and the start of the CFP got to them
@@Mattgo90 They lost to a better Georgia team, it happens. I didn't think UM was the best team in the country that year, but hey, it was a fun year.
Um yes just like georgia sucked then won 2 nattys,so your take is teams don't get better??? Stupid comment from clueless dummy
I was shocked this year when I talked to a former college football player. He didn't realize that in high school you can use instant replay and show the kids immediately what they are doing wrong or what the other team is trying to do. He told me that it's illegal to use instant replay in college until you get to the playoffs. Hearing that left me confused because you always see high school and NFL teams using instant replay all year round, but it's basically illegal in college?!
Thank you! I coach HS football and we have all the calls on videotape can play them
Back as much as we want. We went 0-10 because we didn’t have the jimmy’s and joes lol
@@jeffhallii7907 yeah at the end of the day esp in hs ball if you aint got the horses you aint winning that race lol
If you think NFL players are watching video replays on those tablets on the sideline you are mistaken. They are looking at pictures of the plays
I can confirm HS coaches are using instant replay. Can’t confirm that they are stealing signs but I’m not surprised if they are. They don’t need mics they don’t need signs. Go back to the old way and have the receiver run in the play or have the qb go get the play call. These kids want wristbands and signs to make it easier so that they don’t have to think about the correct play call they don’t want to think about improvising. There’s wide receivers solely playing in the slot that tells them just what route they need to run on this play. They are completely taking the ability to think away from the game
@@Rowsy91100%
When pat started to talk about that mind set of “any advantage” I would spends hours and hours watching runners in my conference lead off, I knew by their own body motions how they would lead off normally and not normally (steal). It was almost un needed by the time I was a senior. I knew who was running where and when and how fast once we got the line up card.
Were you the catcher?
Reminds me of Tony Gwynn I think it was that used to tape his own games and watch pitchers for hours -- even on flights -- and would learn and memorize as much as possible for the next time he played them.
@@duchaneaux ya I was a catcher! That’s wild it take dedication.. man.. just no god given talent.
Good on ya man! What you did is completely legal and SHOULD be taught. Studying is not the problem here.
@@CapnPink28Yea this goes well beyond just studying a team with your own eyes. Every athlete watches their opponents to get a top of where they are going
@@LegallyBlind21No one is debating that fact. Reviewing film and studying opponents tendencies is well within the rules. Go to games in person and videoing their signals and play calling from the stands is explicitly prohibited.
The whole reason teams spend hours sitting through film is so they know what their opponent is doing by how they line up. The sign from their coach is irrelevant, I can see the formation. Do you really believe they're going to spy the sign, check their sheet, cross reference the counter to that play, and sen the play in. Orrrrrr... Train their player to recognize how the other team lines up, and understand from that what they're going to do. You don't need to know the teams sign, you can see the damn play the second they line up.
No if you know the sign for pass block or a sign for which route combo then you already know it’s pass or not run. That alone is a huge advantage.
Sign stealing is for the COACHES to know what adjustments to make in real time. The players only need to know the defense plays in their playbook they arent looking for the signs only for their COACHES to give them the plays/defensive sets to adjust to based on the signs the COACHES see from the opposing team which is the competitive advantage, otherwise theyd have to guess and hope they’re in the proper position to defend whats coming. Clearly your chances are better when you KNOW whats coming. Idk how this goes over peoples heads.. doing this in game is fine but its a completely different ball game having hours video footage of play call signs to study key plays weeks prior to playing the opponent.
If Michigan had a couple of losses this wouldn't even be news.
Yes, it would. Normal people care about cheating, even when cheaters lose. It especially matters when a team that loses 3-4 games each year suddenly becomes unbeatable without any obvious cause.
20 NFL draft picks... 20 that is the cause. @@Spock1234
@@Spock1234cheating? Lol watching the other team like every other team in existence? Lol. Your delusional.
@@mikepalmer1971 watching other teams isnt buying tickets to future opponents games is not the same thing. Also schools typically exchange tape that doesnt show play calls.
The question is: If they had 2 losses SHOULD it be news?? Yes is should.
They must not have scouted TCU much last year since they gave up a 50 🍔
Allegedly it's mostly been B10 schools
Or tcu was told to change their signs because of this investigation
I don't think any one was suspecting TCU to make the playoff. That's why they didn't spy on them, and the score shows that.... allegedly.
@@ZayneArbogast OSU changed their signs the week of THE GAME and still got beat
Only skells reference the 50 burger
NCAA is mad because of Harbaugh's Football Politics of standing by the players in NIL and Transfer portal
Probably mad because Michigan cheated. Wrath of the NCAA will come down on them.
the cope is palpable. keep putting on your tin foil hat
@@willdaugherty2842 keep crying about Michigan and supporting a Witch Hunt cause y'all can't stand Michigan being the winningest football team in football. It won't change a thing. We're dominant finally and y'all can't handle it. Sign Stealing is legal. Teams do it all the time. Only illegal if you're using electronic devices to communicate with players.
The tickets weren't to Michigan games!
Right….wouldn’t that be the games you’d represent!
And if he were trying to help vets get to games wouldn't you do it where you're on staff? Bring the guys down on the field, meet players etc etc etc
I think the point is make Jim leave.
Bruh Michigan has so much talent they dominating teams even without sign stealing
I find this all a little too convenient in the sense that all of this comes out a week before Harbaugh is suppose to sign a contract extension with a healthy raise with Michigan. 🤔
Your allowed to observe signals. You are not allowed to send in person employees to video signs to steal them. They broke the rules. They should be punished, period if it’s true.
If you speed, you should get punished…period 😂 it doesn’t mean it’s a big penalty
There’s no proof that they sent him.
Where’s the evidence
Well if stallions sent people who weren’t employees to video tape it’s not technically against the rules
@@kidcurrency8963 that’s not necessarily true though. Non-employees are allowed to do that on their own, but having everything paid for them could make them contractors which is practically the same thing as employees. It’s definitely a gray area. If the money paid for that can be traced back to Michigan accounts, then it’s definitely a problem. If the money just dead ends with Stalions, that’s much safer for MI because then the connection to MI is extremely weak.
I personally know the marines dad lol this shocked our town
Same had bros dad for history
what town? ahahahah asking for Buckeye fans
He got that dog in him still I see
🧢🤥
That's awesome
So this picture of the signs where sherrone Moore holding signs on a laminated piece of paper he is the offensive coordinator so now there is a picture of signs held by the offensive coordinator on the internet most likely being Michigans signs and we don’t see a problem with that?
Michigan was very good last year too....Unfortunately both the SEC and BIG 12 championship games were played on the same day..... Conner chose to go to the SEC game....TCU drops 51 on Michigan the 4th most points TCU scored that season
Stallions isn’t the only one doing this. It will come out
So did TCU steal Michigan's signs? 😂
@@klass_1221 no jay jay threw two pick six lol
@@klass_1221 That's how ridiculous this whole thing is.
There is a month in between the end of the regular season and the playoffs. TCU was scouted. They just had plenty of time to make/learn new signals. Hard to do in a week.
Back in high school when we had a week off I was at an opponents game with a giant video camera. We called is “scouting” back in the day. Kinda feels like the ncaa is on a witch hunt with Jim.
Well there's a lot of things that we did back in the day when we played in high school which are against the rules now. There's a rule and every team is expected to comply with it until they change it.
@@WarriorX-pm3uh Wrong. They're accused of having staff members going in to games of future opponents and recording their signs and signals. You're either deliberately pretending to not understand what's going on or you need to get up to speed on what's going on here.
@@WarriorX-pm3uh You're really not getting it are you? There are rules against one but not the other.
I see a criminal defense lawyer in the making. Ignore the crime, and talk about the straw-man you just set up.
If you also stole signs in high school, Michigan is looking to hire people like you!
NCAA has a permanent fix to all of this but they like the muddy grey area because that gives them freedom to go after anyone that they don't like. Permanent fix= QB in helmet comms. The NFL does this and it removes all the need for signs.
3:46 ….. Rhule just more mad at the no mic in helmets lmaoo then he backed down
At least someone is talking sense though without throwing another team under the bus
The bald guy is Ben Herbert, the best strength conditioning guru in college football. He's always that intense lol
lol if the NCAA tried to seized my computer I would tell them to get paid. Who do they think they are the feds?
Exactly . They don’t have the power to do anything to a civilian
If the computer is owned by U of M and the NCAA asks for it... I don't know the rules, but that would seem most likely.
@@bigwitt187Then the wording wouldn't be called "seized" if that's what you're describing.
How in the heck did they seize his computer? They have no legal way to do that.
Possible it was a work provided pc and he didnt turn it in himself is all i can think of
If was provided by Michigan as part of his job they seized their own property from him on behalf of the NCAA.
Are you interested in the details of the NCAA's process, or are you just concerned that they found proof of Michigan cheating? The NCAA is a private organization with its own rules. Michigan may not have a legal obligation to turn over the laptop, but then the NCAA could easily ban them from future games for not following their rules. Michigan has no legal right to play in the Big 10 or in Bowl Games. I really wish Michigan had chosen that route. College sports would be better off without these cheaters.
If he was doing some cheating, I would hope he wouid cover his ass a bit more then that
The FBI got it from Mike Weiss, former OC yeah the FBI is investigating UofM, let that sink in.
Michigan fans livid rn lmao
The burger Allegedly had a substance that was confirmed to have the appearance & consistency of Cheese.
This complaint feels like "Mom! He looked at me!"
Thats why you have 3 or 4 calling signs in, and change the hot caller on each series or even during a drive.
This stuff happens in every sport every day with every team. College and pros 😂
Same sheet was at the Michigan state game… it’s our call sheet.
Wouldn’t the sign stealing only benefit the offense? So why can’t teams that play Michigan seem to score on them?
defenses use signs too for what coverage the DBs will be in, how the linebackers will cover or blitz, stunts, protect blocking vs bull rush...lots more
Pat is wrong. The sign stealing isn't illegal. It's the in person scouting that is and this dude has already been confirmed to have purchased tickets to games that Michigan had on their upcoming schedule at 11 different B1G schools, Clemson, Alabama, Georgia, and Tennessee.
Patrick was worried about people who don't like him. It doesn't matter if they like you or hate you. Money is on the fact that they're talking about you. It's all about the money
When watching the Ohio State Michigan game this year i noticed at one point in the game when the buckeye QB back out from underneath the cemter to look over to his sidelines for a play chamge call the Michigan defense woulf be looking over there too. So after noticing that i was watching for it from both teams and when the Michigan QB was looking to their sidelines afyer coming back from the center the Buckeye defense was not looking over there because they obviously didn't have any reason to look because they must not know the signs
It’s going to be hard for the public to distinguish between legal sign stealing that happens every game and something much deeper. That is why it shouldn’t be public. The fact that it’s public, tells me that they are trying to railroad harbaugh.
Who is? Looks a lot more like he’s railroading self with a combo of a win-at-all-cost-mentality and utter stupidity .
I don’t understand why it’s illegal to attend a future opponent’s games and watch their sidelines out in public. If they’re hiding in the bushes at a team’s practice, that’s one thing, but it’s out in the open for everyone to see during a game.
Scouting your enemies isn’t cheating. And they can’t confiscate his computer it’s not a crime.
You cant scout. You are given the film you use by the NCAA nothing more
Funny Rhule said I’m not going to say anything there instead of just saying “nope, never thought they had our signs”
He said, I don't know anything
What he really said is; "well we had their signs too, so..."
Every team steals signs so that's why they change them
Ohio State gets in trouble for paying money to families before NIL but Michigan gets accused of watching opppents games.
Remember Michigan went 2-4 in 2020 when no one was allowed to attend games so I guess its hard to steal signs when no one can go to the games.
Didn't over half their team also sit the season out? That might have had something to do with it....
WoW people are really dumb Covid year really every school dose it and your full of 💩 if you think your school doesn’t
Go blue!
NCAA at the drive thru….
“I’ll take the #2. The Burger and Spies combo.”
Remember when Steinbrenner gave Drew Henson a baseball contract to lure him out from Michigan since he didn’t see his buckeyes beating Michigan with a QB like that?
It wouldn’t surprise me if OSU is somehow behind this.
Michigan sure didn't have to cheat Saturday night. Mich st. playbook was 3 hand offs into the line and punt. Michigan's spring game was a bigger challenge.😂
That's correct but at the same time it's quite possible that Michigan didn't even send any "advanced scouts" to scout out MSUs game. I don't think Michigan did it for all their opponents. One thing we do know is that they bought two tickets to the Ohio State-Penn State game. One on each side of the field. Also, coincidentally, since the allegations came out nobody showed up to use them.
Blake and Edwards suppose to be the best running backs but our 3rd and 4th sting guys are playing better than them But we cheating. Every team we played have new Quarterbacks, new wide receivers and new offense and defensive coordinators and new head coaches but somehow we are going to games recording all signs. Naw, man those coaches need to be fire due to not change from week to week. Go Blue!
@@ScottCleve33 The huge question here is: did Michigan send said advanced scouts to games or was it merely an analyst out of his own pocket? The rule clearly prohibits EMPLOYEES, but nothing about friends of employees. Bending the rule, yes, but by definition not breaking it.
@@ericpoland7389 That's more than just bending the rules. A staff member sent people there on his behalf to do scouting for him. I don't think the NCAA will be so lenient.
@@ericpoland7389if the rule has a grey area around who actually does the recording, this situation could require a judgement call. If Michigan used this method to specifically target that grey area it looks bad for them. It looks like Michigan tried to violate the spirit of the rule without violating the letter of the rule.
If this situation does require a judgement call, who will make the judgement call in favor of Michigan? The NCAA who Harbaugh told to pound sand earlier this year? The B10 who are collectively responsible for all of this coming to light?
It looks bad for the northern weasels and I am happy about it
Having sign stealing as illegal is so dumb. Everyone in the stadium and watching tv can see the signs. It is such a dumb rule.
There is a precedent in 2016 Baylor got into trouble for scouting violations : the punishment was a 2 quarter suspension for their coach
Let's use that math. Baylor's coach went to 1 game and got a 1 half suspension. What then is the punishment for, at minimum, 30 games? 15.
He went to a game with his family, was told he was t allowed to be there, left and self reported. BIG difference than sending people to scout teams.
Vegas seems more of a threat to Harbaugh than NCAA. If he messed with their money...
Yeah like dominating OSU and then getting dominated in subsequent playoff games lol
66% winning against the spread when every other team in D1 is around 50% or less; including Michigan prior to 2021.
Either Vegas is filled with idiots when it comes to predicting just one team or there is a competitive advantage.
Yep I'm sure Jim Harbaugh will end up swimming with the fishes.🙄🤣
Well it's a good thing Michigan stole Michigan State's signals. That was a close game! 😂
It's illegal by law to steal signs? So if a player is traded to another team and tells the team everything he knows, is that illegal too?
No that’s perfectly fine. Same with a coach
with the cheeseburger and now this I honestly believe the NCAA just wants Harbaugh out because of his politics and supporting NIL.
The thing i wanna know now is why look into this now when this started three years ago and or so they say but another thing is don't people send scouts or whatever to watch that team play against another team and learn what they do
😂Pat is my favorite. No filter 💯 "that thing is on fire quicker than the NE Patriots" 😂😂😂😂😅 FOSHO 😎
Let’s think about this for a moment. There are 60,000 to over 100,000 video cameras at every game now that are very capable of recording high end video. So if the NCAA is so upset with this maybe they should pass a rule not allowing any cell phones in the stadium! You have the option of leaving them in your car or turning them in at the gate with a stub to retrieve it after the game. This may help prevent even more spying on the teams! …lol…..
What a stupid take, I love how people say, "it's ok to cheat" LOL. Harblow already lied twice. This is about the integrity of the game moron.
This is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard
I didn't even know sign stealing was illegal. I thought everybody did it and that's why teams change signs and signals all the time.
Stealing signs during the game is one thing that’s perfectly legal …. but the ground work and video work leading up to it is a whole entire operation and that’s where I don’t think they are in the same catagory of just trying to read the coaches signs during the game
So the guy that bought the tickets to all the oppenents games is the same dude that stands right next to Harbaugh and the defensive coordinator at every michigan game . So he was getting the tickets across from the bench of the upcoming oppenent giving them to someone that would video tape. Then when michigan played that team he would basically tell the michigan coaches what offense or defense that team was running then they would have their opposite call of what they would run for a play call …every play
So decide for yourself if it crosses the line
@dragotx21 Plus, did they know whether the tickets Stallion gave away were all actually people he knew? What if someone decided to sell them because something came up? Is the NCAA going to ask the FBI find the 3rd party buyer AND ask for private phone data? 😂This is all insane.
@dragotx21…yep exactly, then they label the cheater a “coach” lol. HAIL ! To the victors cheating hard. HAIL! to the conquering cheaters. HAIL! HAIL! to michigan. The leaders (of cheating) and the best (cheaters)
Harbaugh denies knowing anything and more importantly says he is barely aware of who he is. Yet there are multiple pics of him on the sidelines next to the OC, DC, and Harbaugh himself
@Apocalypse2031Harbaugh isn't leaving michigan
Michigan fans "everyones doing it"
Well tbh, that is fair of us to say that, but we are the ones who got caught
@@YooperHatesOhioState that's simply not true all teams are not doing this at the alleged level of this scheme
Yeah, just every ex player and most coaches are saying its the case, not just Michigan fans. The only ones acting righteous reside in Columbus, OH and East Landfill, MI
@@bodhi419 wronf again we are the only ones getting caught for it
@@rayelee1301 I've read all the articles everyone is admitting to I game signal calling and that's allowed, no one has ever said they went to another stadium and video taped everything. Don't twist the truth for your benefit. Get the facts straight
All I am saying is this, IF this is all on Scalion, he is the dumbest staffer on ANY level of collegiate football... I am not going to say he is innocent, but this whole thing has been run a completely 5th grade level...
They’re good because they know what play their opponents are going to run
Harbaugh came out and said there should be revenue sharing with the kids... now constantly under investigation for cheeseburgers and looking at stuff
EVERY team tries to steal signs. That's why TV Copy is so important to coaches, because TV will inadvertently catches signs on camera. College Football Video Coordinators train the sideline filmer to keep their bench out of the shot as much as possible and they'll trim the exchange copy tight to the snap after calls have been made. It's also why you see so many teams that have equipment guys with a big sheet on two poles holding them up behind the sign caller to block the signs from the stands and more importantly from TV cameras. Every team steals signs...
Illegal is still illegal, just because not everybody get caught, it's still illegal. If you get pulled over for speeding, you still broke the law even if everybody else is speeding too.
@athras8822 Baylor 2016. You can settle down now. You're welcome.
I remember one while Jesus Aguilar while playing for the marlins was caught on camera pulling out a calls index card out the back pocket of the 1st baseman while he was distracted 😂
“They keep reporting on it so there has to be something” lmao
You Michigan fans are a meme. “Nothing to see here”
There’s a great story going the opposite way involving Mike Leach. For the Texas/OU game he arranged for a fake script of OU plays to get into the hands of the Texas team.
Now that is hilarious. That makes me like him more than I did. Lol.
No vet has the money to buy tickets for other vets 🤣
He was a Captain in the Corp, I assure you he could afford it. Not saying that’s why he did it though. But if he’s got his officers pension he has two incomes by himself, and it would explain why he could volunteer for so long.
Agree, I can tell you as a former O-3 I didn’t make a lot at all. You can Google the damn pay scale. An O-3 in 2022 maxes out at $79k. IPlus he isn’t “retired.” Dude graduated from Navy in 2016 which puts him at around $70k/year. Also a lot of these old vets don’t seem to know about the blended retirement system in place now where it’s like a 401k and you have to pay into it.
@@geoffreywightman3635 yeah so it’s definitely affordable for him to buy these tickets, especially if he’s trying to advance his career. But it does seem odd that he’d be so reckless about it, I’d expect more from someone with his credentials lol. Hey I’ve been surprised before
@@jonathanwyman3869 Unfortunately certain former servicemembers are really good about embellishing their career accolades. That's why most of us choose to just not talk about it.
you think 70k is a lot of money or something?@@jonathanwyman3869
This is literally a non issue lmao, the worst thing that happens is the dude stealing signs gets fired and possible scholarship taken away, good job
I bet you wrong. At least 2 year bowl ban
@mrsilly6518 I bet not lmao saying every single team does it and if you think sign "stealing" is that much of an advantage you clearly don't know football
Know what it will lead to though bud, headphones in helmets
@@xHBTDxthe NCAA said in 2021 when they tried to repeal the rule completely (and narrowly failed) that the minimal advantage gained isn’t even worth the effort the rule takes to enforce. Violations with that wording are minor, level 3 violations.
@mrsilly6518 I'm just wondering what you think about all this now that 3 teams actual coaching staffs are involved in collusion against Michigan, like I said everyone does this to some level, I told you so bud
Matt rule made a good point about we could come out of the stone age for college football and have a mic in the qbs helmet. end all this. everyone in the stands has a camera. I'll go to a game and send what I videoed for free to coach if I knew how. go wolverines. let's go lions. bad game. bury it see yall for over reaction monday
It could probably help prepare more quarterbacks for the NFL too
Why aren’t game films against the rules? Great coaches know how to read and interpret and pick up tendencies. The NCAA has a hard on for Harbaugh.
Tendencies are not the same as reading signals. On a given play I can look at a teams tendencies and guess that they're going to run to the right. If I can steal signs I know exactly what you're going to do.
Pat that ball head guy is the strength and conditioning coach the real reason why Michigan is so dominant over the last three years.
I was just about to say the same. "Big Baldy" is strength and conditioning coach Ben Herbert. He's been around for several years and is the reason why the lines are so big and strong. He played at Wisconsin and I believe worked at Arkansas before coming to Michigan
exactly!
IF YOU DONT CHANGE YOUR SIGNS UP THATS YOUR OWN DAMM FAULT 💯
As a military veteran, I wanted to chime in regarding his pay and how he would even afford this since people seem to assume that he couldn't afford to fund this operation on his own. People claiming he couldn't possibly afford this because he "only makes 55k/yr" are seemingly unaware that this guy is a retired Navy Captain. That is an O-6 and the retirement pay is a percentage of that pay scale (70% of 155k/yr on the high end). On top of that, he owns rental properties. On top of that, he MAY also receive VA disability benefits on top of that. I believe the guy can almost certainly afford to do this off the university's books. His salary for his position at Michigan means nothing in regards to the university's potential knowledge of any such activities, in my opinion.
Ehhh that’s a reach. He’s a 2016 Navy grad, which means he only had about 5-7 years in. “Retired” is a term civilians use interchangeably with “former.” Additionally, if he was prior service before the academy, he’d still need to be no older than 24 upon graduation, so no - he’s nowhere near 20 years in. Also - seems like you are unaware of the new blended retirement model, where you don’t automatically get 50% base pay upon retirement, you have to invest as well. Lastly, I was an Army O-3 so I know the pay scale and it really wasn’t anywhere near $130k lol. Sincerely, an Army grad.
He graduated in 2016 from the academy. He's retired as not on active duty but if you don't have a full career you $0 after you get out.
@@geoffreywightman3635o
The "rental properties" he owns is his own house. He would rent the rooms via Airbnb and sleep on the couch.
People don't understand you don't have to work at the mill anymore to make money these days
Hey Pat! That bald guy standing next to Michigan's DC (Jesse Minter) is the Strength and Conditioning coach, Ben Herbert, and you can tell he's not even looking at the DC's card, he's looking at the players on the field. Since you played at WVU and in the pros, you of anyone should know S&C coaches are very intense dudes!!
Michigan has literally been a trash football program for the better part of the last 2 decades. Only the last 2 seasons have been good which fall within the time frame of the actions of these allegations. Not a coincidence Harbaugh’s only wins against Ohio State have come during the same time frame, prior to that he was 0-5 vs OSU and 0-13 vs Top 10 opponents…To sit there and ignore that fact and act like someones trying to “ruin” their current run of losing every time they touch they playoffs; as if these allegations have no merit as it correlates to their recent “success” or as if they’ve just been winning championships consistently in the last 5 years is very disingenuous and delusional….. they put together a couple solid seasons out of nowhere after being trash for 20 straight years and people have questions… um fans so thirsty to be relevant again
11:10, its literally ben herbert, their strength and conditioning coach lol
Plus if he is not a scout and if he has no reason to watch the other games, why is he buying tickets for those games? If it is not legal for a staffer to do that then it would be cheating.
How did this become a conversation about stealing signs in game when the accusation is that someone attended several games to steal the signs ahead of time? Of course there's nothing wrong with doing it in game.
People love to deflect attention from the real crime and set up a straw man they can easily disprove. It like they say - if you are innocent, talk about right and wrong. If you are guilty, talk about the letter of the law!
All these coaches know they are doing the same thing, so they are going to be very careful in what they say. Michigan has already found Ohio States person doing it. If 80 to 90% of teams are doing it the NCAA is about to open a big box of worms.
Cope
Sign stealing has been part of every game since the inception of the sports smh. Every team does it
Yea but thats all taking place in the moment. You don’t see staff members of future opponents at these games recording with their phone and stealing the signs, that would violate the NCAA rules. But I hear ya, Michigan is likely one of many teams doing this scandal, just the first to be caught
U of M needs to have the last two years of wins vacated and not be allowed to play in the Big Ten Championship or the College Football Playoffs this year.
I asked a lawyer about the rule and this is what he said: “unless the person actually recording the video was employed by Michigan, there is nothing legally the NCAA can do. Allegedly taking video and then allegedly sending it to a coach is legally no different than taking video and uploading it to youtube for the coach to see. If the person allegedly recording the video was employed by Michigan however, then it would violate the NCAA’s bylaws”
Take it for what it’s worth.
What if they were paid to do so (which they were)
@@kevinjohnston4923 lol if the NCAA finds money sent from the University of Michigan to the people recording the video, then yes that is legally considered employment. But as of yesterday, by the NcAA’s admission: no monetary trail exists
Just wait for it.@@BradyBaseball13
@@r8d4tubewhat a contribution lol
@@BradyBaseball13 There is a money trail: Stalion is an idiot and there are public Venmo records
Bald guy in reference is the strength and conditioning coach 😂
If u ain't cheatin' u ain't tryin'. Jus' sayin'.
I am not impressed with the attempt at equivocating and rationalizing this and the attempt to equate this with legal sign stealing is not very convincing. I am sure Michigan knew the rule, and I am sure they knew they were breaking the rule and were just expecting to not get caught. I hope the top staff was uninvolved in planning. I honestly have no idea whether this contributed to Michigan success the last couple of years and it probably doesn't matter. I'm also not suggesting that there should be some heavy penalty, but the attempted handwaving to defend, exonerate, or minimize what Michigan has done is kind of a weak look.
Ok sherlock holmes Noone cares what you think we want facts period waldo
This is the college football equivalent of spitting on the sidewalk and getting detained for it lmaooo
It’s not.
It's insider trading but in football.
Exactly
Astros stole signs and won the World Series. So there’s that.
@@jordanmadden7388 it is though, so much so that in 2021, the NCAA tried to amend to remove the rule because "the minimal competitive advantage (in the modern technology age) isn't worth the resource cost to enforce" the rule.
I cited Pat from a short time ago talking about a "perfect" FG block, because you learn the tell the holder has which tells the designated guy to go full speed before the snap to hit the line just right, get past and block it. Learning the tells is something you do. I suspect this guy, if this was a scouting plan, was trying to get the info for himself to look good. Because most of the intel is in game footage the coaches are already going over. But, if you're low in the hierarchy, and you can look like you have great insight for your bosses, which gets you the next promotion.
A lot of effort for how many trophies ??
It's either UM is really stupid or something fishy is going on
I honestly think this is blown out of proportion however if Harbaugh and the players knew about this then that deserves punishment.
Well...at least he's "always faithful" to Michigan..
This all came out early enough that if they still win out as expected then it really doesn’t matter. Everyone seems to have a drastically different opinion on this but seems like all the players and former players describe it as essentially nothing at all.
Sign stealing is one of the dumbest things people always cry about.
NCAA trying to get coach Jim because the didn't get him for buying cheeseburgers
11:11 that's Ben Herbert the SC coach 🤦🏻♂️🤣🤣🤣
To me the photos that he's near coordinators means nothing since he was hired to help decipher signs. Whether or not the coaches knew HOW he was doing this (ignoring the rule about assuming the HC knows all and assuming all rumors are true) is another story.
There's no rule about stealing signs. I wish we would stop talking about this topic. The rule has to do with in-person scouting and the only reason that rule is in place is because smaller schools didn't have the budget back in the 80s to do it
Dont let this distract you from the fact that Michigan is 3-13 in their last 16 bowl games. 6 game losing streak
Hilarious all the people saying it doesn't matter, including Deion.....if so why are teams trying to steal signs all the time? Because it offers no competitive advantage!??
It actually doesn't matter one bit if the rule is BS, it's a rule. If they broke the rule, it was no accident and they did so knowingly, and it's cheating. As for whether it was on purpose, it's pretty easy - if he bought seats directly across from the opposing team, and that team was always a future opponent of Michigan, that pretty much confirms it was an intentional act. If he was just buying tickets for veterans and/or watching his favorite teams, it would stand to reason some of those games would be teams that Michigan didn't have on the schedule, or already played, and some of those seats were randomly distributed around the stadiums.
Its a microcosm of grad school at major universities the entire place is officially a cesspool
My thing is…They watch so much film on these other teams throughout the year to know their game inside and out lol. If you are doing that then you already have a very good idea whats coming and when. 🤷♂️👍
There's a big difference between "a good idea what's coming and when" and knowing exactly what play is coming on each play. Hell they even have a video of Ohio State changing the play before snap and the Michigan sideline signalling in what they changed to. Teams work hard to be unpredictable. To try and catch the other team off guard.
Acting as if knowing whether each play was pass or run EVERY PLAY is not a unfair advantage to give to the defense is ridiculous.. Being able to study signs prior to game day allows you to guarantee your defense is in correct position every time no matter what the offense does even if they audible which according to the rules is illegal and takes away from the integrity of competiton. Like allowing your opponents to look around your hand while playing cards.